"The Lesser of Two Evils" Problem

[foofighter20x]

Why are we even discussing this? This shouldn't even be a problem right now. Quit thinking too far ahead, people!

What we need to be doing right now is telling them about Dr Paul and where he stands and what he can do for America. If they like what they hear, ask if they will vote for him IN THE PRIMARY. The general election is still 16 months out. We shouldn't be trying to hook and reel people in just yet.

Ask them if they like Dr Paul's message. If yes, ask if they are willing to help him get the nomination, whether it be through volunteering or just a $10, $20, or whatever-they-got-in-their-pocket-right-now donation.

Just don't try to commit them to voting for Dr Paul in the general election (yet!). If we can get them only for the primaries, then get them for that. Everything between the primaries and the general election rests on who wins the primaries.

In other words: DON'T FOCUS ON THE LESSER OF TWO EVILS ARGUMENT. If we get Dr Paul the nomination, then there will no longer be a problem of the lesser of two evils any more.

The more important issue here is the fundraising. If we can get the good Dr's fundraising numbers up, the rest--votes and more support--will come with it.

Let's go do great things, people!

[mport1]

"Why are we even discussing this?"

Because this is the number one problem that people have in supporting/voting for Ron Paul. They don't understand that the wasted vote is a myth. We should come up with the best answers to address this question so that people will come out in support of Ron.

[nayjevin]

What we need to be doing right now is telling them about Dr Paul and where he stands and what he can do for America.

I agree this is the main focus, however, in doing so, I encounter the 'lesser of two evils' problem. Therefore, a strategy for combatting it is relevant, even in the focused discussion you are endorsing.

[foofighter20x]

Ah, so they won't even donate?

Gotcha. :o

Here's an idea though: When you are telling people about Dr Paul, ask them if they will sign a petition--with no need to donate or pledge their vote--to tell the government they like his ideas and want to see them implemented.

Soon, there will be so many signatures on that petition that people will see that the "snow-ball-in-hell" is really a Blizzard.

Documentation of people saying they support him does wonders! ;)

[foofighter20x]

I agree this is the main focus, however, in doing so, I encounter the 'lesser of two evils' problem. Therefore, a strategy for combatting it is relevant, even in the focused discussion you are endorsing.

So much so that they won't even give $5? Bummer. :(

[nayjevin]

When you are telling people about Dr Paul, ask them if they will sign a petition

Great idea. do you know any petitions already in the works, or how we could strategically print out an excel petition or something to add to what's already there? How would we compile this data?

[foofighter20x]

You can just as easily make a petition form in a simple word processor.

E-petitions are pointless unless you print them out and take them with you to show the people--really, are you just going to leave it to them to go home and look it up themselves? They'll forget about you within 100 yards. You have to show them on that contact that the support is REAL and that they should join in. So really, having an e-Petition is not going to help you on the street.

But then again, if you do have an e-Petition and you print out the first 200 names or so, then you'd avoid the problem of people being reluctant to be on the first half of the first page.

Try making a petition here. (http://www.petitionspot.com/members/petitions/edit.php)

EDIT: Remember, the burden of proof to show that there is support for Dr Paul rests entirely on us!

[shrugged0106]

I plan to give copper Ron Paul bucks out (one per day) to a selected individual who appears to be intelligent.

Let the weight and picture raise the eyebrows and then wham! hit em with some of his record and leave them with all that to stew in.

[dude58677]

"Why are we even discussing this?"

Because this is the number one problem that people have in supporting/voting for Ron Paul. They don't understand that the wasted vote is a myth. We should come up with the best answers to address this question so that people will come out in support of Ron.

Ron Paul is NOT a third party candidate, so stop treating him like one.:)

How's that?:)

[Rabbit]

I think it is being discussed because it is a relevant issue right now when talking to people about RP.. Hooking people with RP and Liberty is really not that difficult.. It's when trying to get their support for RP that they bust out the impenetrable force field of fearful stubbornness..

The logic goes that a vote for RP in the primary is a wasted vote because it's of utmost importance to vote for the guy that can beat the Democrat..

This stance begs the question, of which the conclusion is, "I gotta support the lesser of two evils or Earth will implode."

The ridiculousness and absurdity of this thinking is obvious to some, but it seems most people adhere to it.. My Philo Prof. uses the same exact mumbo-jumbo to support Bush, and when I get the the nitty of it with her, she admits her decisions are based on emotion and not reason..

Some men (and to an extent, some women) you just can't reach, so I suggest moving to the next person when you determine their shields are so strong that it would take waging a protracted battle for their mind to bring them down.. Plant the seed and just think to yourself, "Next!"

I do understand though, quite personally, that you don't want to give up on some people, like family or close friends.. The true essence of this voter fear phenomenon is that the scared person is a follower and not a leader.. Leaders lead by example, and followers follow by that example, so I would suggest keeping calm, cool, and logically reasoned.. Show them by your example how to be strong in your convictions.. Show them that they can exercise power as well.. It'll sink in eventually...hopefully! ;)

[Rabbit]

Here's an idea though: When you are telling people about Dr Paul, ask them if they will sign a petition--with no need to donate or pledge their vote--to tell the government they like his ideas and want to see them implemented.


I think this is an excellent idea.. Word it up, lemme see it..

[foofighter20x]

Like I said: Arm yourself with a petition that want to sign, and they will SEE the support and maybe will change their mind then and there. ;)

[foofighter20x]

GIVE ME FEEDBACK before I post this petition for us all to use!

I avoided hot-button issues, but stuck to Dr Paul's talking points:


To: The President of the United States and Members of Congress

Stop what you are doing and listen to us!

It is truly clear that both of your institutions—the executive and legislative branches—have fallen completely out of touch with the common American. As it is your duty to represent us all, and because you are failing to do that, we speak to you today through our First Amendment right to seek redresses from you, our government, via petition the changes necessary to put our country back on the track of peace and prosperity.

1. Give Us Back Our Freedoms! We the American people are not your enemies. We are not terrorists, yet you have turned your fear of them on us, American citizens and residents. Repeal the abuses of the PATRIOT Act and the Military Commissions Act. Restore to us our freedoms and our guaranteed liberties as embodied in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights: habeas corpus, freedom from unwarranted searches and seizures, the right to trial by a jury of our peers, the right to counsel, the right to confront those who accuse us of crimes, the right to see the evidence against us, and the right to a speedy and public trial. Honor the contract that you have with America through those two documents.

2. Give Us Back Our Property! Judges have ruled that governments can take our land and give them to other private, special interests. This is an absurd abuse of governmental power which would have enraged our Founders! Our ancestors and countrymen have not fought and died at home or abroad so that the fruits of their labor and life’s work, nor those of their families and friends, could be confiscated in order to benefit special interests. Stop these illegal acts of confiscation of our property now!

3. Give Us Back Our Lives! Cut government spending and cut taxes. We currently work over four months of the year to meet our tax liabilities. While we don’t like taxes, we recognize the purpose they serve. However, our begrudging willingness to pay them does not give you the right to irresponsibly spend those tax dollars on unnecessary and wasteful programs. Given your respective track records, we’d rather do for ourselves—with much greater effect and efficiency through private charity—those things you try to do for us. Cut these needless and inefficient programs that don’t work and give us back the money used to run them. Once you’ve done that, stop taxing us in secret through inflation. Also, we are onto the game you are playing with simply printing the extra money you need, but neither have nor can get from us, and we won’t stand for it.

4. Give Us Back Our Government! We the People are sovereign—not you. You are our servants, our representatives. You work for us. Your job is to do what we want, not the other way around. When you all took office, you swore to uphold and protect the Constitution. Yet day in, day out, you ignore that honored document and usurp from us powers which you we did not give. Now, though backchannels, and not according to our will, you are even attempting to subvert that great writ of government by erasing our borders and taking away our right to elect those who lead us by creating the unelected governing body of the North American Union. We are perfectly capable of running our own lives and we do not need any supra-national agencies dictating to us what to do.

5. Give Us Peace and Prosperity! Stop meddling in the affairs of other countries, whether by exerting influence or by starting unnecessary, needless, and dangerous wars. While we always love to see our brothers and sisters around the world open their arms to democracy and freedom, we simply can’t force them to be free at gunpoint. Think of the absurdity of that idea: forcing people to be free. Instead, let’s work to fix the problems we have at home. If we set a good example at home and actively lead and coach other people of the world how to be free through trade and good relations, they just might take the steps necessary to be free themselves. We can’t need to do for them what they must do themselves; else, they won’t truly value what they gain. Also, we should only fight wars of self-defense of our borders against countries that are actively threatening us with legitimate force. Defending other countries and policing the world are not our job. Pax Romana didn’t work for the Romans, and Pax Americana isn’t going to work for us. Instead of wasting our resources on a policy that has always failed, we’d better serve the world and ourselves by using those resources to invest in our economy and our infrastructures.