PDA

View Full Version : Not all that easy




bvboys
07-04-2007, 12:19 PM
I have been comming here for a while now and have been telling people about Dr. Paul with some success. I have finally joined to express my frustration at the fact that some people just can't be convinced. I can't understand why some people want the government to take care of them. I was talking with my brother and he was telling me how rediculous Ron Paul's agenda is. I am not a debater but when given a little time I can defend my positions pretty good. I guess I should admit defeat and move on but that is hard for me to do. This is what I sent him today. Any ideas to help me convice this unbeliever?

Hey bro,

When I first learned of Ron Paul I was watching a movie about the federal reserve. He was talking about how the fed and the IRS are unconstitutional. I forgot about him until he announced his candidacy. When I learned he was wanting to be president I started reading some of the things he has written and I began watching the videos of his speeches on the Internet.

I will admit that when I heard some of his positions on things like drugs, education, abortion, and gay marriage I was surprised. I kept reading and researching. His personal beliefs on these things are consistent with conservative religious beliefs. His political positions are in line with what the constitution says. That is that the government does not involve itself in the private lives of Americans. It is not the job of the government to protect you from yourself. The first amendment to the constitution begins with the words "Congress shall make no law...". If an idiot wants to do drugs and screw up their life then they are supposed to be free and able to do so in this country. If I want to drive my car without a seatbelt then I should be free to do so. If I want to ride my bike without a helmet I should be free to do so. Stupidity eventually takes care of itself.

The war on terror is unwinnable. The fact that we are fighting terrorists breeds more terrorists. Terror is an act of war not an enemy. If we are to ever win this thing we will have to take the same approach as we did with Japan. This politically correct b.s. the president is doing right now is not war. It is suicide. The troops are sitting ducks because they cannot identify the enemy. We should come home and protect this country against aggression. We should have our national guard securing our borders and then if we are attacked we should go after the culprits, not a country that had nothing to do with it and certainly not preemptively. Some people say that if you question a war then you are not supporting the troops. That's bull, I support the troops because they became troops to protect America and its citizens. Anyone who is willing to die for such a noble cause is deserving of everyone's respect. You say I am crazy for believing the 9/11 attacks were anything other than terrorism. Then explain to me how the most sophisticated air traffic controlled system in the world did not identify a problem or abnormality and then scramble the most sophisticated air force in the world to do something about it. I agree that what happened was unforeseeable and we never could have known their intentions but the fighter planes were not even there when the liners hit the towers. Why?

In the case of education, you have to agree that the more intimately involved a person is in the child's learning, the better they can decide what that child needs to excel. Politicians in Washington are not best positioned to make those decisions. They should be made at the local and state level.

Dr. Paul is an OB/GYN. He has delivered over 4000 babies. He has never killed one. Although he believes in the sanctity of life he also believes that it should not be decided by the U.S. government whether a woman should or shouldn't be allowed to get an abortion. Instead he believes it should be decided on a state level but he has already introduced legislation that defines life as beginning at conception. This would give the fetus rights that could not be infringed upon. That the same lawmakers would say it is ok to kill a baby in the womb but as soon as that baby is born it has rights is absurd. Also these same lawmakers have made it a crime to harm the fetus of another person. So if you kill a pregnant woman you get charged twice with murder. How hypocritical is that? His legislation failed to pass but I'm sure he will try again.

The one man one woman marriage amendment thing is an attempt by Christians to force their beliefs on others through government intervention. Citizens should not look to the government for moral guidance, because morality is primarily a religious or personal matter. It is not the governments place to determine peoples faith. If Christians are so concerned then they should be more active in a witness role.

You asked about gun control. This is protected under the second amendment and the last four words say that this right "shall not be infringed". One could argue that the guy you mentioned gave up his rights when he was convicted for killing those two people. But what about the people of New Orleans that did nothing wrong except be in the wrong place and get hit by Katrina. Their guns were seized and they had no way to protect themselves from the real criminals. Guess what made it legal for the police to seize their guns without them committing a crime. You guessed it, the patriot act.

As far as the patriot act is concerned, yes it is being used for good now and does not affect those who are doing nothing wrong. But, when people perceive something as not wrong, or as you put it "a necessary evil", it is mistakenly seen as right. Time will only tell if this will be abused, and it very well could be. Then people will realize they have been duped and have been stripped of the rights and protections by the very government that was supposed to protect them.

I know it is a long shot for him to be elected, especially if everyone responds with the same attitude that you have. I am voting for him because I believe he has the most consistent voting record and is the only one who will tell the truth whether we want to hear it or not. I am voting for him because of my convictions not because I want to vote for a winner. This country was founded on the principles of life and liberty and I believe that the founding documents are just as relative today as they ever were. I have wrote all of this on my own without the help of uninformed opinions from the Internet. But, I AM going to end with two quotes from some "outdated constitution" writers....

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety". - Benjamin Franklin

"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual." - Thomas Jefferson


p.s. if you think he is getting equal coverage then search news stories about the different candidates and compare the number of results. Barack Obama, in quotes, returns 17084 results. Mitt Romney, in quotes, returns 12657 results on google news. Ron Paul, in quotes, returns 1864 on google news. No main stream media blackout huh? You may say he is not relevant to the nomination process but how will anyone know if he is not covered. I realize there will be discrepancies in numbers because of popularity but he is the most popular candidate on the web and has been declared the winner of all three republican debates. If this doesn't deserve coverage I am not sure what does. I have enjoyed reading what you wrote and have enjoyed writing this. I hope we continue.

Dan Klaus
07-04-2007, 01:06 PM
Don't blame them - they have been conditioned by the msm and nobody likes to admit that they have been lied to..they have been bombarded with their beleive systems for years and years and admitting they are wrong is a step most people will avoid to the point of becomming over emotional, angry and worse. I know because I have this issue with family members as well. I can almost tell them what they beleive after watching CNN for a few hours and reading the local paper - they find it uncanny and I find it pitiful. Just move on to another person, stay patient, keep the faith. Good luck friend. JMHO.

Bryan
07-04-2007, 01:29 PM
Welcome to the forum- I like your post, good info, well researched and stated in a good tone. You're right this isn't easy but I have two points on that:

- Keep the tone positive and education, don't attack the other person. You seem to be doing this.
- Don't expect instant results. Think of your job as to plant a seed and then water it whenever possible. It's rare to see an exchange of words where someone does a 180 turn on their views, but they can come around after thinking things through and talking with others and being reinforced of a proper positing (for us itís the anti-neo-con thinking).


Here is a list of post topics that can be used to help on points when talking to non-supporters:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=2948

SeanEdwards
07-04-2007, 01:38 PM
My suggestion is that it's not your job to convince people that Ron Paul is right. That's Ron Paul's job, and he's damn good at it. All we should be doing as supporters is introducing voters to Ron Paul, and encouraging them to research Ron Paul on their own and form their own opinion.

cajuncocoa
07-04-2007, 01:45 PM
My suggestion is that it's not your job to convince people that Ron Paul is right. That's Ron Paul's job, and he's damn good at it. All we should be doing as supporters is introducing voters to Ron Paul, and encouraging them to research Ron Paul on their own and form their own opinion.

Good point.

Mesogen
07-04-2007, 01:55 PM
My suggestion is that it's not your job to convince people that Ron Paul is right. That's Ron Paul's job, and he's damn good at it. All we should be doing as supporters is introducing voters to Ron Paul, and encouraging them to research Ron Paul on their own and form their own opinion.

I dunno about that.

It's the message, not the man. People need to be awakened and it begins with at least broaching the subject wrt to certain issues. The Federal Reserve, fractional reserve banking, etc are not subjects that people ever think about, and that works to the advantage of those behind the scenes.

If we at least keep taking about it, eventually there will be public debate about it (I mean national public debate).

We can't leave it up to one man.

Bryan
07-04-2007, 02:11 PM
That's a good point too Mesogen, focus the discussion away from fruitless debates that can never really be resolved (did Iraq really have WMDs?) and on lesser discussed but more important issues.

SeekLiberty
07-04-2007, 02:25 PM
My suggestion is that it's not your job to convince people that Ron Paul is right. That's Ron Paul's job, and he's damn good at it. All we should be doing as supporters is introducing voters to Ron Paul, and encouraging them to research Ron Paul on their own and form their own opinion.

Hey hey! We agree here Sean! :D

What Sean says is spot on. Unless one really understands the principles of Liberty well enough to clearly talk about how it relates to the issues today, let Ron Paul do that. It will save one a lot of time, and Ron will likely do a better job as the excellent statesman he is.

I ALWAYS wear my "Ron Paul for President" cap, and a Ron Paul T-shirt every single day. Usually I get a question or comment such as "Who is Ron Paul?" Or "You must be a Ron Paul fan."

I say, "Yep, he's our next President. Oh yea, why don't I give you one of his cards so you can look him up." "Here."

Keep it sweet and simple. :)

They always take the card. I go no further. In fact, I will politely but quickly leave so we don't get wrapped up in a political discussion. lol.

For my friends, they've watched my dedication by seeing me wear my Ron Paul cap and (t-shirts with different sayings). Just by example, they're voting for Ron Paul too almost as if it was their idea and knew about him all along. lol.

One friend of mine just helped me put out 4 Ron Paul lawn signs in strategic locations. It was my idea, I had bought them. But HE was the one who said "let's go do this right now." Like me, he's never done anything for a political campaign either. The spirit is "infecting." :D

- SL

SeekLiberty
07-04-2007, 02:41 PM
I dunno about that.

It's the message, not the man. People need to be awakened and it begins with at least broaching the subject wrt to certain issues. The Federal Reserve, fractional reserve banking, etc are not subjects that people ever think about, and that works to the advantage of those behind the scenes.

If we at least keep taking about it, eventually there will be public debate about it (I mean national public debate).

We can't leave it up to one man.

I agree that it's the message that's important. I'd never hesitate to talk about the issues with somebody whom has the time and really wants to talk about it. Usually though, in this hurried world, it's a bit tough to easily convince somebody of something in a 30-second sound bite.

So I just try to wake up their spirit with curiosity. When I feel "aggressive" I may say at the register ...

"Do you have any other change besides Federal Reserve Notes? I prefer currency like this."

Then I show them my silver Liberty dollar. They are always facinated when they see REAL currency. It's fun! (Sometimes they want to BUY IT on the spot! lol.) Then I give them a Ron Paul business-size card and tell them this man will give us real money that's worth something.

I've found that strangers are easier to get to look into Ron Paul. Introducing strangers to Ron Paul seems to be a more tolerant and polite situation than arguing with beer buddies at a bar. :)

- SL

PS: You're right. One man cannot do it alone. The battle against the "Gang of 534" is huge. The majority of them are clearly guilty of war crimes by shunning their Constitutional duty to "declare war" if they wanted war. (Why does one think Ron Paul was so emphatic when he said this. He has very good reason. Hillary Clinton (just one Senator) should be in PRISON, not running for President! It's insane. I'll talk about this in another post.)

The best plan I've found for WE THE PEOPLE to get control of all our branches of General Government is this detailed plan that each state Citizen can do. It's the only appropriate, proper, and CORRECT Constitutional way for WE THE PEOPLE, as individuals, to restore our Republic.

Constitutional Homeland Security: A Call for Americans to Revitalize the Militia of the Several States. Volume I, The Nation in Arms [UNABRIDGED] (Paperback)
by Edwin Vieira (Author)

http://www.amazon.com/Constitutional-Homeland-Security-Americans-Revitalize/dp/0967175925/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-8267830-3940011?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1183582667&sr=8-1

(No, the link is not an affiliate link. lol.)