Breaking - Mass shooting at Texas church stopped by armed citizen

[Anti Federalist]

Two Dead, One Wounded in Church Shooting Near Fort Worth

https://www.breitbart.com/news/two-dead-one-wounded-in-church-shooting-near-fort-worth/

Dec. 29 (UPI) — Two people were slain and another is in critical condition after a shooting during a service at a Christian church in a suburb in Fort Worth, Texas, on Sunday morning.

The shooting occurred at the West Freeway Church in White Settlement, The Dallas Morning News reported. White Settlement is a city in Tarrant County with a population of 16,116 at the 2010 census.

One of the victims is believed to be the suspect.

MedStar spokeswoman Macara Trusty confirmed that one person died at the scene of the shooting and one person died en route to a hospital. The third person was listed in critical condition.

Fort Worth Fire Department sent out an “active threat” assignment about 11:30 a.m. to assist White Settlement police and fire.

The gunman walked up to a server during communion with a shotgun and then opened fire, Isabel Arreola told KTVT-TV.

Another church member shot the suspect, according to the witness.

“It was the most scariest thing. You feel like your life is flashing before you. I was so worried about my little one,” Arreola said.

Sunday’s service was live streamed on YouTube but the video that showed the shooting has since been made private.

Two years ago, Devin Kellen opened fire inside another Texas church killing 26 people and wounding more than 20 others before he shot himself to death. It occurred at First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, which is 280 miles south of Fort Worth.

[Warlord]

You wont hear anything about this in the media.

Just here at RPF.

[Anti Globalist]

Media is certainly going to be quiet about this.

[Mach]

Pic of shooting. It will be very interesting to find out who the shooter is...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFfQthWPQCI

[Schifference]

Why would anyone need to bring a gun with them into a church?

I thought the church shooting was reason enough to pack a weapon at all times.

[sparebulb]

One of the victims is believed to be the suspect.

Putzlitzer quality journalism.

[euphemia]

Why would anyone need to bring a gun with them into a church?

We attend a church less than 5 blocks from the governor’s mansion. There is a trained, armed security team on patrol during services.

[Danke]

https://heavy.com/news/2019/12/keith-thomas-kinnunen/

[Schifference]

We attend a church less than 5 blocks from the governor’s mansion. There is a trained, armed security team on patrol during services.

Best be aware of them.

[Anti Federalist]

Why would anyone need to bring a gun with them into a church?

When I carry, I carry everywhere.

This story is the reason why.

[navy-vet]

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=9N4df_1577655564

[Swordsmyth]

https://twitter.com/hanman39/status/1211518390365540352

1211518390365540352

[angelatc]

[B]

.

Sunday’s service was live streamed on YouTube but the video that showed the shooting has since been made private.



I wonder if Youtube will let him keep it up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5NzuGSkL2E

[Anti Federalist]

I wonder if Youtube will let him keep it up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5NzuGSkL2E

Great video, great points, thanks for posting.

Fatal flaw #1- The only single casualty, outside of the bad guy, was the fellow who tried to draw down on him initially. Like Correia noted, the draw, at 3.2 seconds was too slow. I have a pretty hard and fast rule myself, and that is, don't draw on somebody who has the drop on you. Doc Holliday couldn't have beat this bad guy at that point, as he had the drop on him and was on target. Bide for time, distractions or the cavalry to show up. He could have engaged or distracted until the second good guy had his weapon up and ready. I know, armchair quarterbacking, maybe the bad guy made threats or ultimatums that had to be met, I don't know. You can't fault his bravery, that's for sure, and the fact that most likely, many lives were saved by all three of these men's actions.

When seconds count, a cop is only minutes away.

[Origanalist]

1211429055830151168

[donnay]

Why would anyone need to bring a gun with them into a church?

Why not? Lots of evil out there and people need to learn to protect themselves. Because someone exercised their second amendment right, they protected themselves and many others in the process.

[donnay]

1211666512198688768


ETA:

Freeway Church of Christ Hero Jack Wilson Thanks God for His Role in Church Security – Jack Gunned Down Church Terrorist with One Shot to the Head
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/12/freeway-church-of-christ-hero-jack-wilson-thanks-god-for-his-role-in-church-security-jack-gunned-down-church-terrorist-with-one-shot-to-the-head/


TEXAS CHURCH SHOOTING: Shooter Gets Off Two Shots Before He’s Shot Dead – NO LESS THAN FOUR CHURCH MEMBERS Pulled Guns on Shooter! (Video)
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/12/texas-church-shooting-shooter-gets-off-two-shots-before-hes-shot-dead-no-less-than-four-church-members-pulled-guns-on-shooter/

[donnay]

Texas DPS Director Praises Armed Citizens Who Stopped Church Gunman
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/12/29/texas-dps-director-praises-armed-citizens-stopped-church-gunman/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+breitbart+%28Breitbart+News%2 9

[oyarde]

Looks Nigerian.

But it is in white settlement .

[shakey1]

Yes!!!!!

I actually did see this on the news & in the paper, surprisingly.

[Anti Federalist]

But it is in white settlement .

Well, if there is one place in the whole country that must need some diversity, it has to be "White Settlement" Texas.

[Anti Federalist]

Looking at the video again, I count seven total people who responded armed.

Well done Texas church goers!

[Anti Federalist]

‘There was just something not right about him,’ says woman who sat near church gunman

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article238818513.html

By Mitch Mitchell
December 29, 2019 10:41 PM

A woman who sat near the man who killed two men at the West Freeway Church of Christ said he immediately made her feel uneasy.

Isabel Arreola, 38, said she did not know what to think when the man sat down two feet behind her and her 7-year-old daughter.

She wanted to think that he was there to worship, just like everyone else, but she had never seen him in church, and said he appeared to be in disguise.

His beard and the hair on his head looked fake, and he made her uncomfortable, Arreola said. She noticed him from the moment that he sat down, Arreola said.

She and her husband decided they would move to the other side of the church after communion, Arreola said.

Then the man got up, pulled a shotgun from his clothing and fired, she said.

“At the same time, we all dove for the floor,” she said. “My husband covered my daughter with his body.”

By the time they all got up, other church members were approaching the gunman with their weapons drawn.

“I was so surprised because I did not know that so many in the church were armed,” she said.

Two members of the congregation’s security team returned fire, White Settlement Police Chief J.P. Bevering said. The gunman died at the scene, Bevering said.

Arreola said she could tell that one of the members of the security team was concerned about the shooter because he sat in the back right near him.

“They saved us,” Arreola said. “Unfortunately, two men lost their lives while they were doing so.”

Arreola said she couldn’t concentrate when the man was sitting behind her.

“I should have listened to my gut,” Arreola said. “While he was there, I couldn’t sing. I couldn’t pray. There was just something not right about him. But at the same time, I thought that maybe I was being too hard.”

(God built you with those warning sensors for a reason. When those alarms are going off, you act on them, regardless of what pity, Christian charity or political correctness says otherwise. - AF)

Arreola said that she wanted to provide a good example for her young daughter. The 7-year-old is now asking questions that neither one of her parents can answer.

“Why did he do this? Why are people so mean?” Arreola said her daughter has asked.

She has no answers.

“Our church is so giving,”Arreola said. “We help the homeless. We help people get food, pay for car repairs. If he just needed something, I’m sure we would have tried to help him if he had just asked.”

The church has planned a members-only worship service for Monday. Perhaps Arreola or her husband will attend, but she does not believe her daughter will be able to make it. She is still processing the shooting, Arreola said. If not Monday, her family will return to her church soon, Arreola said.

“The church is my family,” she said. “I pray to God that he watches over us and we can put this in the past. You hear about church shootings, school shootings all the time, but never think that it’ll be your church.”

[angelatc]

Great video, great points, thanks for posting.

Fatal flaw #1- The only single casualty, outside of the bad guy, was the fellow who tried to draw down on him initially. Like Correia noted, the draw, at 3.2 seconds was too slow. I have a pretty hard and fast rule myself, and that is, don't draw on somebody who has the drop on you. Doc Holliday couldn't have beat this bad guy at that point, as he had the drop on him and was on target. Bide for time, distractions or the cavalry to show up. He could have engaged or distracted until the second good guy had his weapon up and ready. I know, armchair quarterbacking, maybe the bad guy made threats or ultimatums that had to be met, I don't know. You can't fault his bravery, that's for sure, and the fact that most likely, many lives were saved by all three of these men's actions.

When seconds count, a cop is only minutes away.
I had the same thoughts. I know this statement will be thrown up as a strawman later, but I am not really a gun person although I am a strong second amendment person. I just don't like loud things.

But I watch his videos all the time, and other things he talks about are waiting your turn, and cover. Armchair QB for sure, but there are lessons to be learned here. If the guy had squatted beside the bench, the shooter might not have seen the draw. But that also means the usher would have been shot sooner, and then it's anyone's guess what would have happened next. Guy in the back could have accidentally shot the pew guy when he stood up, giving the gunman more chances to respond.

In any event, the guy died a hero, which is probably how we would all choose to go out if we had that choice.

[Anti Federalist]

I had the same thoughts. I know this statement will be thrown up as a strawman later, but I am not really a gun person although I am a strong second amendment person. I just don't like loud things.

You don't have to be a gun person or even necessarily like shooting and guns to be a second amendment person.

If you decide to carry one though, you have to fight through the noise and smoke and recoil and other things which some folks find unpleasant, in order to be proficient.


But I watch his videos all the time, and other things he talks about are waiting your turn, and cover. Armchair QB for sure, but there are lessons to be learned here. If the guy had squatted beside the bench, the shooter might not have seen the draw. But that also means the usher would have been shot sooner, and then it's anyone's guess what would have happened next. Guy in the back could have accidentally shot the pew guy when he stood up, giving the gunman more chances to respond.

All good points, Corriea's videos are top notch IMO.


In any event, the guy died a hero, which is probably how we would all choose to go out if we had that choice.

There are certainly worse ways to go.

[enhanced_deficit]

Media is certainly going to be quiet about this.

POTUS might make a statement on this though as he has after such incidences in the past.


Related

Trump praises Florida gun control bill (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?520124-Trump-praises-Florida-gun-control-bill&)

[angelatc]

You don't have to be a gun person or even necessarily like shooting and guns to be a second amendment person.

If you decide to carry one though, you have to fight through the noise and smoke and recoil and other things which some folks find unpleasant, in order to be proficient.



All good points, Corriea's videos are top notch IMO.



There are certainly worse ways to go.

I think in a real live shooter event, the noise would be somewhat muted by my adrenaline. I don't mind the smoke. In my head, I wanna be Annie Oakley but I don't want to do the work because it's too loud at the range.

Another thing I noticed, the first guy shot was already beginning to stand up before the gun came out. It looks like he heard the usher exchanging words with the murderer, and was already getting up to go over there.

[donnay]

Noise cancelling headphones is the way to go out to a range.

Active Noise Cancelling Headphones
https://www.amazon.com/Cancelling-Headphones-Bluetooth-Microphone-Comfortable/dp/B019U00D7K/ref=sxin_2_ac_d_pm?ac_md=3-0-VW5kZXIgJDc1-ac_d_pm&keywords=noise+cancelling+headphones&pd_rd_i=B019U00D7K&pd_rd_r=68b12113-881e-446b-b421-c5eb8a1390ef&pd_rd_w=U6Mlm&pd_rd_wg=ycFvW&pf_rd_p=709d2064-e546-4799-9e66-b352ea89951f&pf_rd_r=7A7GQJ50H4WQVVN28JHK&psc=1&qid=1577730022

[phill4paul]

Noise cancelling headphones is the way to go out to a range.

Active Noise Cancelling Headphones
https://www.amazon.com/Cancelling-Headphones-Bluetooth-Microphone-Comfortable/dp/B019U00D7K/ref=sxin_2_ac_d_pm?ac_md=3-0-VW5kZXIgJDc1-ac_d_pm&keywords=noise+cancelling+headphones&pd_rd_i=B019U00D7K&pd_rd_r=68b12113-881e-446b-b421-c5eb8a1390ef&pd_rd_w=U6Mlm&pd_rd_wg=ycFvW&pf_rd_p=709d2064-e546-4799-9e66-b352ea89951f&pf_rd_r=7A7GQJ50H4WQVVN28JHK&psc=1&qid=1577730022

Those are pretty much just for basic noise cancelling. You'll want shooter quality headphones at the range. I use these, and they work great.

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/1867402213?pid=632420&utm_medium=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Shooting+-+Ear+%26+Eye+Protection&utm_content=632420&cm_mmc=pf_ci_google-_-Shooting+-+Ear+%26+Eye+Protection-_-Walker%27s-_-632420&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI242J44De5gIVUeWGCh02oA2_EAQYASAB EgKRhvD_BwE

[Anti Globalist]

1211429055830151168
Just goes to show that politicians will take advantage of every opportunity they can.

[Anti Federalist]

Sadly, based on this report, I guess the wounded usher died as well.

Pastor at Texas Church Thankful Congregants Could Defend Themselves: ‘There Is Evil in This World’

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/12/30/pastor-at-texas-church-thankful-for-gun-law-there-is-evil-in-this-world/

PENNY STARR 30 Dec 2019

The pastor at the West Freeway Church of Christ in White Settlement, Texas, where a man shot two parishioners to death before he was killed by an armed member of the congregation, said he is thankful for the state law that allowed the church to protect itself.

“I’m thankful our government has allowed us the opportunity to protect ourselves,” Britt Farmer said.

He also said that protection is needed because, “There is evil in this world.”

Farmer announced the church would be gathering on Monday night to continue the service that was cut short by the attack.

“We lost two great men today but it could have been a lot worse,” Farmer said. “Today is one sermon I will never preach. It was called ‘Leaving a Legacy,’ and two men today left a legacy.”

The Daily Caller reported the Texas Department of Public Safety Director described the armed members quick response as “heroic” and “miraculous.”

“The citizens who were inside that church undoubtedly saved 242 other parishioners, and that might get swept aside,” Jeoff Williams said. “It was miraculous. The true heroes in all this are the people who were sitting in those pews today and responded, the immediate responders … it was truly heroic.”

Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick said the incident only lasted six seconds thanks to the church’s volunteer security team members, a team formed after the passage of the state law that allows licensed gun owners to carry weapons inside houses of worship.

“Two of the parishioners who are volunteers on the security force drew their weapons and took out the killer immediately, saving untold number of lives,” Patrick said.
Authorities have not identified the victims or the shooter, according to CNN.

[Anti Federalist]

I'm also starting to question why they are sitting on the names of the victims and shooter.

Might be more to this...

[Anti Federalist]

“I’m thankful our government has allowed us the opportunity to protect ourselves,” Britt Farmer said.

Erm, you got that bass-ackward there, Pastor Farmer.

Let's let a better pastor explain this to you.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htuJwowHOEg

[phill4paul]

Just goes to show that politicians will take advantage of every opportunity they can.

Even if it absolutely proves their dip-shittedness...

1211362454833442817

[angelatc]

Sadly, based on this report, I guess the wounded usher died as well.

.

That's the hardest part to watch. He is shot with his back to the wall with his hands up in a defensive posture. Coreia points out that in that circumstance the usher should have moved forward since he had nowhere to go but I doubt I will ever think that fast. Training for that is just something that only the real professionals get, I think. Some people have natural instincts, but I'm a freezer.

[Brian4Liberty]

https://heavy.com/news/2019/12/keith-thomas-kinnunen/

Homeless criminal...


“The apparently homeless gunman who killed two worshipers Sunday had been helped with food on several occasions by the West Freeway church, but he became angry when they wouldn’t give him money, minister Britt Farmer told me. He wasn’t recognized Sunday because he wore disguises,” Bobby Ross Jr., the editor of The Christian Chronicle, tweeted.

[ClaytonB]

Those are pretty much just for basic noise cancelling. You'll want shooter quality headphones at the range. I use these, and they work great.

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/1867402213?pid=632420&utm_medium=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Shooting+-+Ear+%26+Eye+Protection&utm_content=632420&cm_mmc=pf_ci_google-_-Shooting+-+Ear+%26+Eye+Protection-_-Walker%27s-_-632420&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI242J44De5gIVUeWGCh02oA2_EAQYASAB EgKRhvD_BwE

RPF rocks...

[Danke]

Those are pretty much just for basic noise cancelling. You'll want shooter quality headphones at the range. I use these, and they work great.

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/1867402213?pid=632420&utm_medium=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Shooting+-+Ear+%26+Eye+Protection&utm_content=632420&cm_mmc=pf_ci_google-_-Shooting+-+Ear+%26+Eye+Protection-_-Walker%27s-_-632420&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI242J44De5gIVUeWGCh02oA2_EAQYASAB EgKRhvD_BwE

Are those legal? TheTexan

[Anti Federalist]

Homeless criminal...

Kindness that can kill.

[Anti Federalist]

That's the hardest part to watch. He is shot with his back to the wall with his hands up in a defensive posture. Coreia points out that in that circumstance the usher should have moved forward since he had nowhere to go but I doubt I will ever think that fast. Training for that is just something that only the real professionals get, I think. Some people have natural instincts, but I'm a freezer.

It is available to anybody.

In NH, or anywhere for that matter, one of the best in the world is Sig-Sauer Academy in Epping NH.

And they are not even that expensive. If you are seeking world class firearm training, I highly recommend them.

https://www.sigsaueracademy.com/

I'm not a young man, and I'm not a fit man, but I have decent reflexes and situational awareness.

Goes with the job territory.

[donnay]

Those are pretty much just for basic noise cancelling. You'll want shooter quality headphones at the range. I use these, and they work great.

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/1867402213?pid=632420&utm_medium=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Shooting+-+Ear+%26+Eye+Protection&utm_content=632420&cm_mmc=pf_ci_google-_-Shooting+-+Ear+%26+Eye+Protection-_-Walker%27s-_-632420&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI242J44De5gIVUeWGCh02oA2_EAQYASAB EgKRhvD_BwE

The link will not come up.

Okay, I got it. Thanks.

[Danke]

The link will not come up.

Walker's Razor Slim Low Profile Electronic Earmuffs (NRR 23dB)

[phill4paul]

That's the hardest part to watch. He is shot with his back to the wall with his hands up in a defensive posture. Coreia points out that in that circumstance the usher should have moved forward since he had nowhere to go but I doubt I will ever think that fast. Training for that is just something that only the real professionals get, I think. Some people have natural instincts, but I'm a freezer.

Depends. In this instance I agree. He should have closed. Against a knife attacker, in an open area where I can move backwards or to the side I would do so while dumping my mag into them. This is why I prefer the Weaver stance to an Isosceles. And, yes, you seem to have the middle-ground in a "fight or flight" situation. Freezing is never good, but it can be trained out. It costs money. It takes time. But, there are courses within driving distance anywhere in the USA. For the most part. And the best way is to probably start with a physical self-defense course. Then move on to a firearm one.

[phill4paul]

RPF rocks...

They even make an ear "bud." These I can't recommend as I have not tried. There was an AR shooter at the range last week that was using them, but I didn't have a chance to get his thoughts on them. Quite a bit pricier, and I'd really have to "try before buy."

https://www.cabelas.com/product/WALKER-SILENCER-BLUETOOTH/2958825.uts?productVariantId=5693467&WT.tsrc=PPC&WT.mc_id=GoogleProductAds&WT.z_mc_id1=05065735&rid=20&ds_rl=1246555&ds_rl=1246558&ds_rl=1252245&ds_rl=1252079&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqZ2PgLXe5gIVAeiGCh0t9QpUEAQYAyAB EgJYOvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[phill4paul]

The link will not come up.

Okay, I got it. Thanks.

You are welcome. I was at the gun range a coupla days ago and the guy in the next booth was using a thunderstick. .45/70. Now the Walkers didn't totally shut this out. There was definite BOOM. But, it was o.k. Had I not been wearing I would have bled from my right ear, lol. I could feel the percussion even though the booths are separated by a thin plywood wall. And that noise cancelling is almost instantaneous. There's a dial that I can turn volume up. So much so that I can hear a discussion at the other end of the range 30 ft. away. Yet, it cancels as the shots are fired. I love 'em.

[Brian4Liberty]

I wonder if Youtube will let him keep it up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5NzuGSkL2E


Great video, great points, thanks for posting.

Fatal flaw #1- The only single casualty, outside of the bad guy, was the fellow who tried to draw down on him initially. Like Correia noted, the draw, at 3.2 seconds was too slow. I have a pretty hard and fast rule myself, and that is, don't draw on somebody who has the drop on you. Doc Holliday couldn't have beat this bad guy at that point, as he had the drop on him and was on target. Bide for time, distractions or the cavalry to show up. He could have engaged or distracted until the second good guy had his weapon up and ready. I know, armchair quarterbacking, maybe the bad guy made threats or ultimatums that had to be met, I don't know. You can't fault his bravery, that's for sure, and the fact that most likely, many lives were saved by all three of these men's actions.

When seconds count, a cop is only minutes away.

Armchair time...

First, the obvious caveat. These types of shootings are extremely rare. No one knew what this guy was going to do. Even after he pulled out the gun, you never know if he is actually going to shoot somebody, or if the weapon is loaded, operational or even real. They knew he was suspicious, but other than that, who knows? I’ll add that most of the Police are now trained to view every single person as armed and dangerous, but not everyone has that view, or the training to reinforce that view.

On to the first victim. He looked older, and not suited to hand to hand or subduing the gunman. But he was there to keep an eye on him due his suspicious appearance. His only job should have been to have his gun ready, as that’s about all he could do. He probably had to stand up just to get his weapon out. Better option? He should have had it in his hand already, with a round chambered it. Concealed by something (jacket, newspaper, etc.), and ready to shoot. That might be a violation of concealed carry rules, but he may have survived.

He probably was thinking he would draw and tell the guy to drop it. At that point the guy hadn’t shot yet, which is a key moment, especially legally. And if the “guard” did shoot before the criminal, in a commie leftist State he would have been charged with murder. Better than what really happened though. Hindsight is 20/20.

Second victim up against the wall. If he was going to stand right there, he should have been prepared to tackle the guy the moment he made a suspicious move. Once the shotgun was all the way out, he was at the gunman’s mercy. Too close to do anything else. He was not prepared.

“Guard” that killed the gunman. Kudos for an excellent shot under duress. He took a little time to take the shot, but that is why it was accurate. The stories are endless where cops, under duress and pumped with adrenaline, empty their pistols at close range without hitting the target once (or even worse hit bystanders).

[Anti Federalist]

Well, if there is one place in the whole country that must need some diversity, it has to be "White Settlement" Texas.

The diversity hustlers catch a break.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/12/30/22/22808854-7837181-Kinnunen_has_a_lengthy_criminal_record_which_inclu des_arrests_fo-a-28_1577743423360.jpg

[Anti Federalist]

“Guard” that killed the gunman. Kudos for an excellent shot under duress. He took a little time to take the shot, but that is why it was accurate. The stories are endless where cops, under duress and pumped with adrenaline, empty their pistols at close range without hitting the target once (or even worse hit bystanders).

Daily Fail reports he owned some kind of gun training school. (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7837181/Pictured-victim-Texas-church-shooting-64-year-old-grandfather.html)

[angelatc]

Daily Fail reports he owned some kind of gun training school. (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7837181/Pictured-victim-Texas-church-shooting-64-year-old-grandfather.html)

Here's an interview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuOEv1jCivghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuOEv1jCivg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuOEv1jCivg

[TheTexan]

Are those legal? TheTexan

The NFA defines a suppressor as "device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm".

Electronic earmuffs would probably fall under that classification and require a tax stamp & permit.

[phill4paul]

The diversity hustlers catch a break.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/12/30/22/22808854-7837181-Kinnunen_has_a_lengthy_criminal_record_which_inclu des_arrests_fo-a-28_1577743423360.jpg

But let it not go un-noticed that he was a convicted felon prohibited from having a firearm. So glad tough gun laws stopped this crime.

[A. Havnes]

But I thought all the researchers said that regular people were unlikely to take down a mass shooter even if they had a gun! /Sarcasm

[Anti Federalist]

Texas church shooting is about a lot more than Jack Wilson's heroism

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/elviadiaz/2019/12/31/jack-wilson-white-settlement-shooting-how-keith-kinnunen-got-gun/2781431001/

Elvia Díaz, Arizona RepublicPublished 6:32 a.m. MT Dec. 31, 2019 | Updated 11:56 a.m. MT Dec. 31, 2019

Jack Wilson is a hero alright. It took him only six seconds to kill a gunman at a Texas church, saving countless lives.

Unfortunately, that kind of split-second heroism has turned into a PR tool by gun advocates.

The reality of Wilson's heroism is a lot more complex. He wasn’t just an ordinary parishioner, as gun advocates may want you to believe. The church’s volunteer security team member is a firearms instructor, gun range owner and former reserve deputy with a local sheriff’s department, according to a New York Times detailed account.

In other words, he’s exactly the kind of man you want around with a firearm. But we know nothing about the at least six other parishioners who also appeared to draw their handguns at West Freeway Church of Christ in White Settlement, Texas.

And that's terrifying.

(Why? Given the track record of cops blowing away hostages and innocent bystanders in a whole slew of recent shootouts, I'd say I'd feel much more "comfortable" around these church folks than a bunch of hut hutting cops keen to get their kill on. - AF)

The real story here isn't heroism

Of course, that wouldn’t matter to the churchgoers of that community of roughly 18,000 residents, right? What matters is that Wilson saved them with a single shot and other gun-wielding parishioners were ready just in case Wilson failed.

But have we really reached a point when each of us need to carry a firearm anywhere we go? Gun advocates certainly think so. They point to Wilson and the new Texas law that allows him and others to carry firearms inside the church.

(You don't have to do shit. Flip, flop or fly you can whatever the fuck you want. Just do not tell me I can not. - AF)

President Donald Trump said as much on Twitter Monday:

Our prayers are with the families of the victims and the congregation of yesterday’s church attack. It was over in 6 seconds thanks to the brave parishioners who acted to protect 242 fellow worshippers. Lives were saved by these heroes, and Texas laws allowing them to carry arms!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 31, 2019

Texas has one of the nation’s least restrictive gun laws, including allowing armed security at houses of worship and allowing parishioners to bring their weapons to church. Gun advocates didn’t waste any time after the recent church incident to promote the idea of arming oneself.

The Second Amendment gives Americans the right to bear arms. And that isn’t going anywhere. But that constitutional amendment doesn’t spell out the types of firearms Americans should bear, nor does it give Americans the right to sell them to anyone to carry anywhere.

(I wonder if the Jews being stabbed and shot and killed in a wave of black nationalist violence in and around NYC would like to do the same thing. They, however, are prohibited to do so. In direct violation of the Second Amendment by the way, which "gives" us nothing, but rather prohibits government from enacting restrictions JUST LIKE THAT. So they remain helpless victims. As you would have all of us be. - AF)

The gunman at West Freeway Church of Christ, 43-year-old Keith Thomas Kinnunen, apparently had a long criminal history, including aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. Authorities say they’re still investigating the motive of Sunday’s shooting, and there were no immediate details about how he got the firearm he used at the church.

We know firearms are readily available to anyone who wants one, really. And that’s part of the problem. Sunday’s shooting isn’t just about Jack Wilson’s heroism. It’s about how Kinnunen got a hold of a weapon in the first place, given his criminal record.

(That's a good question, since as a convicted felon he was prohibited from touching, handling, owning, purchasing and transporting ANY firearm or ammunition. Maybe bad guys don't observe the law...maybe? - AF)

[Anti Federalist]

elvia.diaz@arizonarepublic.com

Light her ass up, if you feel so inclined.

[Brian4Liberty]

But we know nothing about the at least six other parishioners who also appeared to draw their handguns at West Freeway Church of Christ in White Settlement, Texas.

And that's terrifying.

Wrong. We know that none of them fired their weapons, and most importantly, did not negligently discharge their weapons and hit people or things that they weren’t aiming at.

And that’s comforting.

[Swordsmyth]

Our prayers are with the families of the victims and the congregation of yesterday’s church attack. It was over in 6 seconds thanks to the brave parishioners who acted to protect 242 fellow worshippers. Lives were saved by these heroes, and Texas laws allowing them to carry arms!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 31, 2019 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1211813523581546496?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)

[Swordsmyth]

Texas AG: “More People Need to Carry” Guns to Prevent Mass Shootings (https://www.infowars.com/texas-ag-more-people-need-to-carry-guns-to-prevent-mass-shootings/)

[Swordsmyth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kciJclao2TM

[TheTexan]

Wrong. We know that none of them fired their weapons, and most importantly, did not negligently discharge their weapons and hit people or things that they weren’t aiming at.

And that’s comforting.

Proper protocol according to most Police Departments is to immediately and without hesitation fire at least 6-7 shots aimed roughly in the shooter's general direction.

Their lack of such action proves that those armed church goers were not properly trained.

[Danke]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kciJclao2TM

If the New Englander like TheTexan is paying attention, there may be hope. He should go to Texas for some real training vs. just running away.

[Swordsmyth]

If the New Englander like @TheTexan (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=33245) is paying attention, there may be hope. He should go to Texas for some real training vs. just running away.
Can Yankees benefit from training?

[TheTexan]

If the New Englander like TheTexan is paying attention, there may be hope. He should go to Texas for some real training vs. just running away.

Come down to my ranch and try saying that. My family has a rich history of shooting Germans like you since even before the Great War.

[Brian4Liberty]

Proper protocol according to most Police Departments is to immediately and without hesitation fire at least 6-7 shots aimed roughly in the shooter's general direction.

Their lack of such action proves that those armed church goers were not properly trained.

Depends upon their handgun. A revolver is so old fashioned, few use those. Best to fire 17 rounds from your Glock, and then change magazines.