NY bill would require HPV vaccine for children to enter school, daycare

[Swordsmyth]

A concerned mom is warning about a New York bill that would require children to get the HPV vaccine before they could attend school.
Under S298/A2912 (https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2019/s298), a child would have to get the vaccine to be able to attend public school or daycare.
Right now, the HPV vaccine is FDA approved for males and females ages 9 to 45 years old, to prevent certain cancers caused by human papillomavirus.
“There’s definitely a large concern among the moms I know about this.”
Laura Greenaway is a mom of two girls. She learned of the bill from posts on her Facebook feed, and now she wants to alert other moms.
“It created concern and anxiety for me that this is not a decision that I can make for my own child,” Greenaway said.
She doesn't believe kids should be required to be vaccinated against human papillomavirus across New York State, and Greenaway is not anti-vaccine.
“My children are all up to date on other vaccines that are tried, tested and true. This is a newer vaccine with very alarming side effects,” she said.

More at: https://cbs6albany.com/news/local/ny-bill-would-require-hpv-vaccine-for-children-to-enter-school-daycare


Oh no, the autisims will git them now.

[fisharmor]

Does anyone here know any person who actually has HPV, or is this repackaged AIDS, where we are all supposed to get scared into line over something that basically doesn't exist?

[Swordsmyth]

Does anyone here know any person who actually has HPV, or is this repackaged AIDS, where we are all supposed to get scared into line over something that basically doesn't exist?
It has a lot in common with AIDS:

Anal cancer rates due to HPV infections are rising rapidly, twice as common among gay men (https://www.poz.com/article/anal-cancer-rates-risen-rapidly-unites-states)

[Grandmastersexsay]

Does anyone here know any person who actually has HPV, or is this repackaged AIDS, where we are all supposed to get scared into line over something that basically doesn't exist?

Seriously? You probably had it or have it right now.


The American Social Health Association estimates that about 75–80% of sexually active Americans will be infected with HPV at some point in their lifetime.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_papillomavirus_infection

Many people don't even know they have it, as often times there aren't any symptoms. It is more commonly known as genital warts, which will typically go away on their own. This isn't too bad for men, but it is a major cause of cervical cancer in women. I believe it is the most common STD in the United States. If it can be eradicated with vaccines, good.

I'm not to familiar with the side effects. I'd assume this mom is going overboard with her claims. What I do know is it will save far far more lives than it will take. I'd also like to add, this mom doesn't have to send her kids to public school. I'd probably recommend she doesn't.

[TheCount]

Oh no, the autisims will git them now.

P. much this.

[Swordsmyth]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by angelatc http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=6884773#post6884773)

Oh no, the autisims will git them now.



P. much this.
Another "libertarian" comes out in support of forced vaccines.

[Origanalist]

Seriously? You probably had it or have it right now.



Many people don't even know they have it, as often times there aren't any symptoms. It is more commonly known as genital warts, which will typically go away on their own. This isn't too bad for men, but it is a major cause of cervical cancer in women. I believe it is the most common STD in the United States. If it can be eradicated with vaccines, good.

I'm not to familiar with the side effects. I'd assume this mom is going overboard with her claims. What I do know is it will save far far more lives than it will take. I'd also like to add, this mom doesn't have to send her kids to public school. I'd probably recommend she doesn't.

No mom with any maternal instincts would "send" her kids to a public school anymore.

[TheCount]

Another "libertarian" comes out in support of forced vaccines.

This just in: authoritarian collectivist accuses libertarian of not being libertarian enough.


More as the story develops.

[jon4liberty]

This just in: authoritarian collectivist accuses libertarian of not being libertarian enough.


More as the story develops.

Many of these "purist" and " principled " libertarians on this site have exposed themselves as hypocrites. These people come at people like SS, Strav and I for not being pure enough

[fisharmor]

Seriously? You probably had it or have it right now.



Many people don't even know they have it, as often times there aren't any symptoms. It is more commonly known as genital warts, which will typically go away on their own. This isn't too bad for men, but it is a major cause of cervical cancer in women. I believe it is the most common STD in the United States. If it can be eradicated with vaccines, good.

I'm not to familiar with the side effects. I'd assume this mom is going overboard with her claims. What I do know is it will save far far more lives than it will take. I'd also like to add, this mom doesn't have to send her kids to public school. I'd probably recommend she doesn't.

I'll be brief...

1- GTFO with "estimates". Numbers from studies or it's the same old pro-vax, unscientific bullshit.

2- Women who don't want cervical cancer also have the option of not throwing down on every random dick they get offered.

3- You don't know anything at all about what costs more lives. You only know what you were told about it.

[specsaregood]

Seriously? You probably had it or have it right now.



Many people don't even know they have it, as often times there aren't any symptoms. It is more commonly known as genital warts, which will typically go away on their own. This isn't too bad for men, but it is a major cause of cervical cancer in women. I believe it is the most common STD in the United States. If it can be eradicated with vaccines, good.

I'm not to familiar with the side effects. I'd assume this mom is going overboard with her claims. What I do know is it will save far far more lives than it will take. I'd also like to add, this mom doesn't have to send her kids to public school. I'd probably recommend she doesn't.

It certainly doesn't sound like a vaccine that kids in daycare need, right?

[ammodotcom]

"Public schools are literal prisons for children and the only time many people will ever encounter violence in their lives."-Micheal Malice

In case anyone is wondering here are the side effects of the HPV vaccine: https://www.drugs.com/sfx/human-papillomavirus-vaccine-side-effects.html

[Schifference]

Relax people. In this country each person has health privacy guaranteed via HIPPA.

[Stratovarious]

This just in: authoritarian collectivist accuses libertarian of not being libertarian enough.


More as the story develops.

When is that last time you heard Ron Paul say that forced vaccination is called for
in the Bill of Rights, or even said he supports forced vaccination ?


Are you a Libertarian in the same sense that Hilary and Obama have always used the
Constitution as their guide?
:frog:

[Stratovarious]

We need to vaccinate the parents, and the pets, that herd thing is key.

:frog:

Nothing is Immune nor safe from mandates, so long as we have arrogant tyrants
in charge.

[Grandmastersexsay]

When is that last time you heard Ron Paul say that forced vaccination is called for
in the Bill of Rights, or even said he supports forced vaccination ?


Are you a Libertarian in the same sense that Hilary and Obama have always used the
Constitution as their guide?
:frog:

You seem confused. There are no forced vaccinations in the United States. No one is forcing these parents to make use of free public schooling.

[jon4liberty]

You seem confused. There are no forced vaccinations in the United States. No one is forcing these parents to make use of free public schooling.

Just their taxes dollars funding it by gun point.

[Grandmastersexsay]

I'll be brief...

1- GTFO with "estimates". Numbers from studies or it's the same old pro-vax, unscientific bull$#@!.

2- Women who don't want cervical cancer also have the option of not throwing down on every random dick they get offered.

3- You don't know anything at all about what costs more lives. You only know what you were told about it.

Are you crazies actually trying to make pro-vaxxers a phrase? There is no such thing. There are anti-vaxxers and sane rational people who don't want to go back to the days of polio. Also, referring to such rational people as unscientific is a real knee slapper and perhaps just a tad bit hypocritical if you look at any anti-vaxxer literature.

What I know is that about 250,000 women die each year from cervical cancer, with HPV being the cause of cervical cancer for 90% of women. Only a fucking moron wouldn't vaccinate for HPV. Only a brain dead asshole would try to convince others not to. It is one thing to do what you want to your own body. It is another thing to preach your idiocy to others. If you were just killing yourselves, I'd be fine letting natural selection take its course, but your self destructive behavior is also bringing long since eradicated diseases back and exposing the public. So not only are you tricking the naive and gullible among the population to endanger their children, you are also putting my kids at risk! Keep going, and you'll end up on the wrong end of all the public lynchings that will ensue.

[Stratovarious]

You seem confused. There are no forced vaccinations in the United States. No one is forcing these parents to make use of free public schooling.Fake logic.

[specsaregood]

Are you crazies actually trying to make pro-vaxxers a phrase? There is no such thing. There are anti-vaxxers and sane rational people who don't want to go back to the days of polio. Also, referring to such rational people as unscientific is a real knee slapper and perhaps just a tad bit hypocritical if you look at any anti-vaxxer literature.

What I know is that about 250,000 women die each year from cervical cancer, with HPV being the cause of cervical cancer for 90% of women. Only a fucking moron wouldn't vaccinate for HPV. Only a brain dead asshole would try to convince others not to. It is one thing to do what you want to your own body. It is another thing to preach your idiocy to others. If you were just killing yourselves, I'd be fine letting natural selection take its course, but your self destructive behavior is also bringing long since eradicated diseases back and exposing the public. So not only are you tricking the naive and gullible among the population to endanger their children, you are also putting my kids at risk! Keep going, and you'll end up on the wrong end of all the public lynchings that will ensue.

Once again, why does a kid in daycare need to be vaccinated against an STD?

[Stratovarious]

Are you crazies actually trying to make pro-vaxxers a phrase? There is no such thing. There are anti-vaxxers and sane rational people who don't want to go back to the days of polio. Also, referring to such rational people as unscientific is a real knee slapper and perhaps just a tad bit hypocritical if you look at any anti-vaxxer literature.

What I know is that about 250,000 women die each year from cervical cancer, with HPV being the cause of cervical cancer for 90% of women. Only a $#@!ing moron wouldn't vaccinate for HPV. Only a brain dead $#@! would try to convince others not to. It is one thing to do what you want to your own body. It is another thing to preach your idiocy to others. If you were just killing yourselves, I'd be fine letting natural selection take its course, but your self destructive behavior is also bringing long since eradicated diseases back and exposing the public. So not only are you tricking the naive and gullible among the population to endanger their children, you are also putting my kids at risk! Keep going, and you'll end up on the wrong end of all the public lynchings that will ensue.

Charming;

Personal attacks insults and cloaked death threats/wishes all rolled into one, but tos don't apply here, ''we can't
be everywhere all the time.'' Another example of randomly applied 'rules' .





:frog:

[Stratovarious]

Are you crazies actually trying to make pro-vaxxers a phrase? There is no such thing. There are anti-vaxxers and sane rational people who don't want to go back to the days of polio. Also, referring to such rational people as unscientific is a real knee slapper and perhaps just a tad bit hypocritical if you look at any anti-vaxxer literature.

What I know is that about 250,000 women die each year from cervical cancer, with HPV being the cause of cervical cancer for 90% of women. Only a $#@!ing moron wouldn't vaccinate for HPV. Only a brain dead $#@! would try to convince others not to. It is one thing to do what you want to your own body. It is another thing to preach your idiocy to others. If you were just killing yourselves, I'd be fine letting natural selection take its course, but your self destructive behavior is also bringing long since eradicated diseases back and exposing the public. So not only are you tricking the naive and gullible among the population to endanger their children, you are also putting my kids at risk! Keep going, and you'll end up on the wrong end of all the public lynchings that will ensue.


Libertarians are not anti vaxxers, that's something you got from angie, we are antil mandaters' , we are against
tyranny.

But yea, carry on with your threats and personal attacks.


:frog:

[Grandmastersexsay]

Libertarians are not anti vaxxers, that's something you got from angie, we are antil mandaters' , we are against
tyranny.

But yea, carry on with your threats and personal attacks.


:frog:

Please don't pretend like libertarians aren't for mandatory vaccines at public school or that this is any form of tyranny. No one is forced to go to public schools.

[Anti Globalist]

If HPV can only be gotten through sexual contact, then I'm pretty much safe from it.

[Grandmastersexsay]

Once again, why does a kid in daycare need to be vaccinated against an STD?

Please clarify what you are asking. Are you presuming this will apply to very young children, because that is what daycare is for? This bill states this is only mandatory for children entering the 7th grade.


Section one of this bill amends section 2164 of the Public Health Law to require persons in parental relation to children born on or after Janu-
ary 1, 2009 who are entering or have entered seventh grade or a comparable age level special education program on or after September 1st, 2021
to have administered to such children an adequate dose or doses of immunizing agents against human papillomavirus (HPV).

I'm pretty sure most kids are old enough by seventh grade that they do not attend daycare. However, if you are more familiar with New York law than I am, and that it turns out any regulations applying to public schools also applies to private daycare, which it probably doesn't, than they should have put an exception in the bill for it. I would say that first, I am against the over regulation of the daycare system, but like public schools, it is not mandatory to send your kid to daycare.

I think this is all a moot point because I doubt this applies to daycare, and few if any 7th graders go to daycare. It is probably just a case of the article trying to get you to picture little girls having to get vaccinated for an STD, while the truth is that these girls would be getting vaccinated at an age where they could be sexually active.

[jon4liberty]

Once again, why does a kid in daycare need to be vaccinated against an STD?

Is this the gardisal vaccine? The one that has killed thousands? To little kids who aren't sexually active and no where near maturation...hmm....something seems fishy.....government will be making this mandated soon?....carry on....(head in sand)

[ProBlue33]

Let me get this straight, they want to vaccinate minors for a potential STD's, and make it compulsory.

I'm no anti-vaccine person , I got mine at both public schools and the doctors office.
But to me this sounds draconian, and it sure isn't libertarian, it surprises me that some on this board are for this, forced injections for STD's isn't libertarian ideology, pretty sure our good doctor Paul would be against it.

[Created4]

14-Year-Old Active Girl in Wisconsin Suffers Over 300 Seizures After Gardasil Vaccine – Doctor Refuses to Consider Gardasil Cause due to Fear of Losing Research Funding (https://vaccineimpact.com/2019/14-year-old-active-girl-in-wisconsin-suffers-over-300-seizures-after-gardasil-vaccine-doctor-refuses-to-consider-gardasil-cause-due-to-fear-of-losing-research-funding/)

Polly Tommey and the VAXXED II team continue their bus tour around the U.S. interviewing victims of vaccine injuries.

They recently interviewed the Brill family from Wisconsin. Their 14-year-old daughter, Ashlyn, has gone from a healthy, active child who now suffers pain throughout her body, and has experienced over 300 seizures since she was vaccinated with the Gardasil vaccine 18 months ago.
Some of her seizures last over 5 hours.

Her mother and father are “first responders” with some medical training. Prior to their experience with their daughter’s reaction to the Gardasil vaccine, they had complete faith in vaccines, and their family was all up-to-date on all of their vaccines.

They took Ashlyn to Children’s Hospital of Wisconsin where the medical staff reportedly tried to induce the seizures to determine the cause.
Doctors allegedly told Ashlyn’s mom that there was nothing wrong with Ashlyn, that all of the test results were normal, and that the seizures were related to too much stress in Ashlyn’s life.

Her mother did not accept this answer, and insisted that all these medical conditions started after the Gardasil HPV vaccine.
She then tells Polly that the doctor’s response is what led her on her journey to make sure that everybody understood her daughter’s story:


So the doctor came back in the room, and it was just us (the family) and the doctor (the neurologist), and she shut the door, and she says, “Listen, we need to talk.”

And she said, “Whether this is caused by the Gardasil vaccination or not, 95% of our research money comes from pharmaceutical companies.”

And she said, “Unfortunately, your child is a small fish in a big sea. And if we were to admit this was the Gardasil vaccination, we would lose our funding for our research.”

Ashlyn’s mom then says:


“I’m not going to let someone’s child be a small fish. So from that day I decided that I needed to share Ashlyn’s story, because every child matters.”

Listen to the entire interview:


https://youtu.be/IxcAhzXcKu8

More information about Gardasil (http://vaccineimpact.com/tag/gardasil/)

Some of the girls whose lives have been destroyed by Gardasil:

https://vaccineimpact.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2017/05/gardasil_collage-3.jpg

[Created4]

CDC Paid Maryland $123 Million to Promote Gardasil Vaccine as Requirement for School Attendance (https://vaccineimpact.com/2019/cdc-paid-maryland-123-million-to-promote-gardasil-vaccine-as-requirement-for-school-attendance/)

The Maryland Prevention and Health Promotion Agency (PHPA) has received millions — $123 million just between 2012–2017 — as part of an effort to require public schools to force children to get the human papilloma virus (HPV) vaccination.

Those funds came in the form of grants from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). The CDC maintains a nonprofit foundation that gets enormous amounts of money from Big Pharma — including Merck, the company that produces Gardasil, the HPV vaccine.

At the very least, Maryland’s acceptance of those funds has the appearance of impropriety. During a PHPA-hosted “HPV symposium” attended by state pediatric practices and Maryland Department of Health staffers in March 2018 at Ten Oaks, Maryland, the featured speaker — Dr. Alix Casler — encouraged attendees to offer free dinners, bottles of wine, and “Quality Doctor Incentives $” sales bonuses to get Maryland physicians on board with the HPV vaccine-pushing program.

Dr. Casler offered a $5,000 cash payment to pediatric practices that achieve targeted HPV vaccine sales goals. Dr. Casler is a paid spokesperson for Merck — to the tune of more than $59,000 just between 2013 and 2016, according to data compiled by ProPublica.

In 2016, the Maryland Partnership for Prevention — which lists the Maryland Department of Health as its top member — accepted $70,000 from the Association of Immunization Managers (AIM). AIM’s top “Corporate Alliance Members” are Merck, Pfizer, Sanofi Pasteur and Seqirus.

That same year, legislation was introduced in Maryland to mandate the shot. In the U.S., only three jurisdictions have made HPV vaccination mandatory: Rhode Island, Virginia and the District of Columbia. Clearly, based on the money and other incentives being injected into our public-health policy system, Big Pharma would love to see Maryland become the fourth to do so.

[Created4]

Government Health Agencies Take Huge Profits from Vaccine Royalties – Gardasil the Top One (https://vaccineimpact.com/2019/government-health-agencies-take-huge-profits-from-vaccine-royalties-gardasil-the-top-one/)

The CDC is a major player in the vaccine marketplace, buying half of all childhood vaccines in the U.S. and then selling them to contracted public health agencies through the Vaccines for Children (VFC) Program, which pushes free and low-cost vaccines on indigent children.

Over the past three decades, the CDC’s vaccine purchases have increased 15-fold as the average cost of fully vaccinating a child to age 18 rose from $100 to $2192—while vaccine companies have raked in the profits. The agency’s involvement with vaccine manufacturers also extends to patents, licensing agreements and collaboration on projects to develop new vaccines.

In fact, the CDC and the National Institutes of Health (NIH) profit handsomely from their ownership or co-ownership with private sector partners of vaccine-related patents. Some of the key technologies underlying the development of the HPV vaccines Gardasil and Cervarix emerged from research patented by the NIH’s National Cancer Institute (NCI), which then licensed the technology to Merck, MedImmune and GlaxoSmithKline.

By 2009, HPV licensing had become NIH’s top generator of royalty revenues. Gardasil is “perhaps the leading example of a new form of unconstrained government self-dealing, in arrangements whereby [HHS] can transfer technology to pharmaceutical partners, [and] simultaneously both approve and protect their partners’ technology licenses while also taking a cut of the profits.”

It seems doubtful that agencies can remain impartial in the face of these profits.

[Created4]

French Cancer Surgeon: Statistics Show HPV Gardasil Vaccine Linked to Increased Cervical Cancer Rates After Years of Decline Due to Pap Smears (https://vaccineimpact.com/2019/french-cancer-surgeon-statistics-show-hpv-gardasil-vaccine-linked-to-increased-cervical-cancer-rates-after-years-of-decline-due-to-pap-smears/)

It takes a long time to affirm that a preventive action really protects. But the failure of this supposed protection can sometimes be very quickly obvious.

To prove that the Titanic was truly unsinkable would have required decades of navigation on the most dangerous seas of the world. Demonstrating that it wasn’t, took only a few hours …

This » Titanic » demonstration is unfortunately reproduced by the Gardasil vaccination.

Evidence that vaccination increases the risk of invasive cancer can be rapid, if the vaccine changes the natural history of cancer by accelerating it.

The analysis of trends in the incidence of invasive cervical cancer published in official statistics (registers) was studied in the first and most fully vaccinated countries (Australia, Great Britain, Sweden and Norway).

In all countries that achieved high HPV vaccination coverage, official cancer registries show an increase in the incidence of invasive cervical cancer.

These paradoxical results plea for a rapid revision of recommendations and intensive research to explain this catastrophic issue.

[Created4]

Please clarify what you are asking. Are you presuming this will apply to very young children, because that is what daycare is for? This bill states this is only mandatory for children entering the 7th grade.



The bill is sponsored by State Senator Brad Hoylman (D- Manhattan), whose legislation eliminating the religious exemption for vaccines in school children was recently signed by Governor Cuomo.

“It would require all children born after Jan. 1, 2008 to receive the HPV vaccine to attend school or daycare in New York, similar legislation passed in other states including Rhode Island,” Hoylman said.

Source (https://13wham.com/news/local/ny-bill-would-require-hpv-vaccine-for-children-to-enter-school-daycare).

[PursuePeace]

I'll be brief...

1- GTFO with "estimates". Numbers from studies or it's the same old pro-vax, unscientific bull$#@!.

2- Women who don't want cervical cancer also have the option of not throwing down on every random dick they get offered.

3- You don't know anything at all about what costs more lives. You only know what you were told about it.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to fisharmor again.

[Stratovarious]

Please don't pretend like libertarians aren't for mandatory vaccines at public school or that this is any form of tyranny. No one is forced to go to public schools.

You gonna' quote Ron and Rand Paul now, or any member here on this forum that is for mandatory vaccines, and please
don't go on with your death wishes/threats to anti mandate members here.

We are not anti vaxxers, that's yours and Angies meme, not ours.

:frog:

[Created4]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to fisharmor again.

Covered.

[Grandmastersexsay]

Source (https://13wham.com/news/local/ny-bill-would-require-hpv-vaccine-for-children-to-enter-school-daycare).

Do you know of any seventh grader who goes to day care? Most kids stop going to day care in first grade. I also read the bill and saw nothing about daycare. Just more scare tactics.

[Created4]

Do you know of any seventh grader who goes to day care? Most kids stop going to day care in first grade. I also read the bill and saw nothing about daycare. Just more scare tactics.

Here is the quote again, from the author of the bill:


The bill is sponsored by State Senator Brad Hoylman (D- Manhattan), whose legislation eliminating the religious exemption for vaccines in school children was recently signed by Governor Cuomo.

“It would require all children born after Jan. 1, 2008 to receive the HPV vaccine to attend school or daycare in New York, similar legislation passed in other states including Rhode Island,” Hoylman said.

[Created4]

Do you know of any seventh grader who goes to day care? Most kids stop going to day care in first grade. I also read the bill and saw nothing about daycare. Just more scare tactics.

Text from the actual bill:


Section 1. Section 2164 of the public health law, as amended by chap-
ter 401 of the laws of 2015, subdivisions 6 and 7 as amended by chapter
35 of the laws of 2019, is amended to read as follows:
§ 2164. Definitions; immunization against poliomyelitis, mumps,
measles, diphtheria, rubella, varicella, Haemophilus influenzae type b
(Hib), pertussis, tetanus, pneumococcal disease, meningococcal disease,
[and] hepatitis B AND HUMAN PAPILLOMAVIRUS (HPV). 1. As used in this
section, unless the context requires otherwise:
a. The term "school" means and includes any public, private or paro-
chial child caring center, day nursery, day care agency, nursery school,
kindergarten, elementary, intermediate or secondary school.
b. The term "child" shall mean and include any person between the ages
of two months and eighteen years.

Source (https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2019/s298).

This should not be surprising at all. They vaccinate ALL newborns for Hep. B, even if the mother does not have it, and it also is a sexually transmitted disease.

[Origanalist]

Do you know of any seventh grader who goes to day care? Most kids stop going to day care in first grade. I also read the bill and saw nothing about daycare. Just more scare tactics.

Lol, its staring you in the face and you're still denying it.

[Grandmastersexsay]

Lol, its staring you in the face and you're still denying it.

So how many 7th graders do you know in daycare?

[Grandmastersexsay]

Text from the actual bill:



Source (https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2019/s298).

This should not be surprising at all. They vaccinate ALL newborns for Hep. B, even if the mother does not have it, and it also is a sexually transmitted disease.

Public or private school? I reverse my opinion with the inclusion of private schools.

[Created4]

Public or private school? I reverse my opinion with the inclusion of private schools.

From the bill:


a. The term "school" means and includes any public, private or paro-
chial child caring center, day nursery, day care agency, nursery school,
kindergarten, elementary, intermediate or secondary school.

[TheTexan]

I certainly don't want any of my kids becoming artistic.

That's the first stop on the gay train.

[Brian4Liberty]

Does anyone here know any person who actually has HPV, or is this repackaged AIDS, where we are all supposed to get scared into line over something that basically doesn't exist?

HPV is extremely common. It causes all types of warts. Many people never have symptoms. The genital variety can cause cancer.


Another "libertarian" comes out in support of forced vaccines.

Before going into the “who is a better libertarian debate”, we should all agree that we oppose the proposed bill in the OP for government to make it mandatory.


I'll be brief...
...
2- Women who don't want cervical cancer also have the option of not throwing down on every random dick they get offered.
...


Except when they believe they are in a monogamous relationship and their partner goes out and catches it.


"Public schools are literal prisons for children and the only time many people will ever encounter violence in their lives."-Micheal Malice

In case anyone is wondering here are the side effects of the HPV vaccine: https://www.drugs.com/sfx/human-papillomavirus-vaccine-side-effects.html

Yeah. There is no denying that there can be adverse side effects. It’s totally safe, until they have to disclose 3 pages of side effects, or the commercial showing people dancing in a flowery field overdubbed with a warning/side effect list that takes up most of the commercial.


If HPV can only be gotten through sexual contact, then I'm pretty much safe from it.

HPV can be transmitted by shaking hands, but that would be the common external skin variety.

[Brian4Liberty]

I certainly don't want any of my kids becoming artistic.

That's the first stop on the gay train.

Slacking on the job I see. Can’t believe all of the posts you have approved since taking the job.

[TheTexan]

Slacking on the job I see. Can’t believe all of the posts you have approved since taking the job.

You have yet to deliver that which was promised.

Fulfill your oath!

And herald a new era of prosperity and moderation!

[Swordsmyth]

Please don't pretend like libertarians aren't for mandatory vaccines at public school or that this is any form of tyranny. No one is forced to go to public schools.
Everyone is forced to pay for them and that reduce many people to being unable to afford private schools or the time to homeschool.

[fisharmor]

HPV is extremely common. It causes all types of warts. Many people never have symptoms. The genital variety can cause cancer.


No. You can't have misunderstood the question. I asked if you know anyone who has it, and we can all assume what I meant was 'do you know anyone dying of cancer caused by HPV' because that has been the active scare tactic from the beginning.

Do not conflate different versions of HPV. The only reason to dilute the issue is if you are on the side of forced injections.

I am not saying you are on that side - I recognize we are all against that. What I would like others to recognize, is that talking about everything else other than the original reason for pushing this shot, which is the STD, is part of a repackaged AIDS scare... Something that does not and never will amount to anything close to the prediction.

[Brian4Liberty]

Does anyone here know any person who actually has HPV, or is this repackaged AIDS, where we are all supposed to get scared into line over something that basically doesn't exist?


No. You can't have misunderstood the question. I asked if you know anyone who has it, and we can all assume what I meant was 'do you know anyone dying of cancer caused by HPV' because that has been the active scare tactic from the beginning.

Do not conflate different versions of HPV. The only reason to dilute the issue is if you are on the side of forced injections.

I am not saying you are on that side - I recognize we are all against that. What I would like others to recognize, is that talking about everything else other than the original reason for pushing this shot, which is the STD, is part of a repackaged AIDS scare... Something that does not and never will amount to anything close to the prediction.

Ok, so you want to talk specifically about the STD (genital/oral) version of HPV. I have known people who have had it (and talked about it). I don't know anyone IRL who has developed a related cancer. There was someone on this forum who said that they developed cancer from HPV. I believe that Farrah Fawcett also died from cancer caused by HPV. Other celebrities have also revealed that they had cancer from HPV.

There is a real risk of developing cancer from HPV, but is it overblown? Who knows? It would certainly serve the corporate interests of the vaccine producers to exaggerate the risk.

[angelatc]

Ok, so you want to talk specifically about the STD (genital/oral) version of HPV. I have known people who have had it (and talked about it). I don't know anyone IRL who has developed a related cancer. There was someone on this forum who said that they developed cancer from HPV. I believe that Farrah Fawcett also died from cancer caused by HPV. Other celebrities have also revealed that they had cancer from HPV.

There is a real risk of developing cancer from HPV, but is it overblown? Who knows? It would certainly serve the corporate interests of the vaccine producers to exaggerate the risk.

I am staying out of this thread because seeing the same people who mumble that Big pHARMa is hiding the cure for cancer because the money is in the treatment simultaneously screeching that a vaccine that would prevent almost all cervical cancer is also a ploy to kill people for profit makes me want to gouge my eyes out. They contradict themselves at every single turn.

Do not get medical advice from the people who post on these forums, Brian. I spent 10 years fact-checking their posts, and one of the many things I learned is that their beliefs are not based on anything evidence-based. It's like a religion to them.

The only reason not to get the vaccine is because you don't want one. But their crazy conspiracies will be the reason the freedom to make that choice will soon disappear.

[Origanalist]

I am staying out of this thread because ........
:rolleyes:

The only reason not to get the vaccine is because you don't want one. But their crazy conspiracies will be the reason the freedom to make that choice will soon disappear.

Huh? Why is it not because of the people champing at the bit to make it mandatory?

[Created4]

Public or private school? I reverse my opinion with the inclusion of private schools.

As already posted, the language of the bill clearly states it includes private schools.

One state legislator is now saying that they will go after the homeschoolers as well:


New York State Assemblyman David DiPietro visited Warsaw on Thursday, Nov. 14 to discuss with the community upcoming bills mandating vaccines like the human papillomavirus and the flu.

“This is about the parental choice aspect that has been taken away from us, [this is] downright illegal,” DiPietro said.
His discussion was not about whether a child is vaccinated. Rather, he reiterated the fact that parents will no longer have a choice of whether their son or daughter is.

One of the possible new state laws set to take effect in January would require kids born on or after Jan. 1, 2009 who are entering public schools or daycares to receive the HPV vaccine.

Due to the possibility of the passing of this bill, it was said that many parents have turned to homeschooling — East Aurora has reportedly seen a 56 percent rise in homeschooling this year. However, DiPietro said, Albany is working with state education to “outlaw homeschooling.”

“Even if it is unconstitutional, legislatures don’t care [about the legality of this],” the assemblyman said. “Corruption drips off the walls in Albany.”

Source (https://www.couriercountry.com/articles/albany-mandate-would-eliminate-parent-choice-regarding-vaccinations/).

[misterx]

On the one hand, this disease is only transmitted by sexual activity, so if there are risks associated with the vaccination should people who make healthy choices be punished for the poor choices of others? On the other hand, around a third of the population is infected with some strain of HPV, and there is no test for it in men. I'm inclined to believe this is a good idea.

[Zippyjuan]

A concerned mom is warning about a New York bill that would require children to get the HPV vaccine before they could attend school.
Under S298/A2912 (https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2019/s298), a child would have to get the vaccine to be able to attend public school or daycare.
Right now, the HPV vaccine is FDA approved for males and females ages 9 to 45 years old, to prevent certain cancers caused by human papillomavirus.
“There’s definitely a large concern among the moms I know about this.”
Laura Greenaway is a mom of two girls. She learned of the bill from posts on her Facebook feed, and now she wants to alert other moms.
“It created concern and anxiety for me that this is not a decision that I can make for my own child,” Greenaway said.
She doesn't believe kids should be required to be vaccinated against human papillomavirus across New York State, and Greenaway is not anti-vaccine.
“My children are all up to date on other vaccines that are tried, tested and true. This is a newer vaccine with very alarming side effects,” she said.

More at: https://cbs6albany.com/news/local/ny-bill-would-require-hpv-vaccine-for-children-to-enter-school-daycare

Bill never made it out of committee. If anybody wants to actually read it: https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2019/s298

[Created4]

Bill never made it out of committee.

Typical Zippy strawman argument. Nice use of the word "never" in the past tense. The legislature is not even in session right now. This bill is not dead like "he" is implying.

[Krugminator2]

Another "libertarian" comes out in support of forced vaccines.

I have no idea if this is needed or not but that isn't forced vaccination. This is voluntary. You have the option to not attend government school.

As far as other vaccines, those should absolutely be required to attend school. If people don't like it, home school.

[Zippyjuan]

Typical Zippy strawman argument. Nice use of the word "never" in the past tense. The legislature is not even in session right now. This bill is not dead like "he" is implying.

Most bills die in committee. This one was submitted nearly a year ago (January, 2019). It also died in committee in 2009, 2011, 2013, 2015, and 2017. There just isn't support for it.

[Created4]

I have no idea if this is needed or not but that isn't forced vaccination. This is voluntary. You have the option to not attend government school.

As far as other vaccines, those should absolutely be required to attend school. If people don't like it, home school.

Try reading the other comments already made in the thread before commenting. This bill is NOT just for government schools, but private schools as well, and one lawmaker has said they will also try to outlaw homeschooling, because they want to vaccinate the kids in school, without their parents' approval or knowledge.

New York is becoming a Vaccine Police State. They already banned unvaccinated children from public places this past summer.

[Zippyjuan]

It also does not require the vaccine for preschool or kindergarten but seventh grade. The OP is wrong.

From the text of the proposed bill:

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2019/s298


D. EVERY PERSON IN PARENTAL RELATION TO A CHILD IN THIS STATE ENTERING
OR HAVING ENTERED SEVENTH GRADE OR A COMPARABLE AGE LEVEL SPECIAL EDUCA-
TION PROGRAM WITH AN UNASSIGNED GRADE ON OR AFTER SEPTEMBER FIRST, TWO
THOUSAND TWENTY-ONE, SHALL HAVE ADMINISTERED TO SUCH CHILD AN ADEQUATE
DOSE OR DOSES OF IMMUNIZING AGENTS AGAINST HUMAN PAPILLOMAVIRUS (HPV) AS
RECOMMENDED BY THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON IMMUNIZATION PRACTICES OF THE
CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION, WHICH MEETS THE STANDARDS
APPROVED BY THE UNITED STATES PUBLIC HEALTH SERVICE FOR SUCH BIOLOGICAL
PRODUCTS, AND WHICH IS APPROVED BY THE DEPARTMENT UNDER SUCH CONDITIONS
AS MAY BE SPECIFIED BY THE PUBLIC HEALTH AND HEALTH PLANNING COUNCIL.

[Created4]

Most bills die in committee. This one was submitted nearly a year ago (January, 2019). It also died in committee in 2009, 2011, 2013, 2015, and 2017. There just isn't support for it.

Thank you for confirming that this is a strawman argument and proves nothing. This bill is not dead, and much has happened since 2017 with legislation that happened earlier this year.

This is what happened in committee earlier this year with the bill that removed the religious exemptions:

https://vimeo.com/345081341

[Created4]

It also does not require the vaccine for preschool or kindergarten but seventh grade. The OP is wrong.

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2019/s298

This was already covered earlier in the thread. YOU are the one wrong.

Text from the actual bill:


Section 1. Section 2164 of the public health law, as amended by chap-
ter 401 of the laws of 2015, subdivisions 6 and 7 as amended by chapter
35 of the laws of 2019, is amended to read as follows:
§ 2164. Definitions; immunization against poliomyelitis, mumps,
measles, diphtheria, rubella, varicella, Haemophilus influenzae type b
(Hib), pertussis, tetanus, pneumococcal disease, meningococcal disease,
[and] hepatitis B AND HUMAN PAPILLOMAVIRUS (HPV). 1. As used in this
section, unless the context requires otherwise:
a. The term "school" means and includes any public, private or paro-
chial child caring center, day nursery, day care agency, nursery school,
kindergarten, elementary, intermediate or secondary school.
b. The term "child" shall mean and include any person between the ages
of two months and eighteen years.

[Zippyjuan]

This was already covered earlier in the thread. YOU are the one wrong.

Text from the actual bill:

That is indeed the definition of a "child" in the bill. But read the part I posted as to what age of a child would be required to have the HPV vaccine. (sections in capital letters are proposed changes). Two month olds are not required to have that vaccine in the bill.


D. EVERY PERSON IN PARENTAL RELATION TO A CHILD IN THIS STATE ENTERING
OR HAVING ENTERED SEVENTH GRADE OR A COMPARABLE AGE LEVEL SPECIAL EDUCA-
TION PROGRAM WITH AN UNASSIGNED GRADE ON OR AFTER SEPTEMBER FIRST, TWO
THOUSAND TWENTY-ONE, SHALL HAVE ADMINISTERED TO SUCH CHILD AN ADEQUATE
DOSE OR DOSES OF IMMUNIZING AGENTS AGAINST HUMAN PAPILLOMAVIRUS (HPV) AS
RECOMMENDED BY THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON IMMUNIZATION PRACTICES OF THE
CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION, WHICH MEETS THE STANDARDS
APPROVED BY THE UNITED STATES PUBLIC HEALTH SERVICE FOR SUCH BIOLOGICAL
PRODUCTS, AND WHICH IS APPROVED BY THE DEPARTMENT UNDER SUCH CONDITIONS
AS MAY BE SPECIFIED BY THE PUBLIC HEALTH AND HEALTH PLANNING COUNCIL.

The existing law covers many types of vaccines and some are required at different ages. For the HPV vaccine, that age would be the seventh grade.

[Brian4Liberty]

...
Do not get medical advice from the people who post on these forums, Brian. I spent 10 years fact-checking their posts, and one of the many things I learned is that their beliefs are not based on anything evidence-based. It's like a religion to them.

The only reason not to get the vaccine is because you don't want one. But their crazy conspiracies will be the reason the freedom to make that choice will soon disappear.

I had the flu vaccine this year. It turned me into a newt! I got better.

[Krugminator2]

New York is becoming a Vaccine Police State. They already banned unvaccinated children from public places this past summer.


So? I am for that.

Walter Block on forced vaccination. https://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/02/walter-e-block/forced-vaccinations/

"Ah but suppose the Typhoid Mary refuses to be vaccinated; I argue she must be compelled to do so. Also, it is possible that the vaccination will not work for all possible victims. Suppose they are too sick to be vaccinated. I think it is the responsibility of the disease carrier to stop infecting other people, not the responsibility of possible victims to protect themselves. "

"I agree with you. If the disease carrier quarantines herself to her own property, we may not force her to become inoculated. But this would have to be a very serious quarantine. Typhoid Mary would not only have to stay on her own property; she would have to insure that the disease cannot be carried by air to others. Practically speaking, she could make no such guarantee. So, I think that strict adherence to the NAP would justify compelling her to stop what is in effect her aggression."

[Created4]

That is indeed the definition of a "child" in the bill. But read the part I posted as to what age of a child would be required to have the HPV vaccine. (sections in capital letters are proposed changes). Two month olds are not required to have that vaccine in the bill.

You're just quoting the section which quotes the current CDC standards for HPV vaccination:


AS
RECOMMENDED BY THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON IMMUNIZATION PRACTICES OF THE
CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION

The CDC does not even include HPV as required for school attendance for ANYONE. But states can do whatever they want, and they have been trying to mandate the HPV vaccine for years, as it was even a hot topic of debate with Gov. Perry in Texas when he ran for president.

This NY bill is clear - it includes daycare and young children. And that is how lawmakers are interpreting, as I quoted above with the Assemblyman from Warsaw.

[Zippyjuan]

You're just quoting the section which quotes the current CDC standards for HPV vaccination:



The CDC does not even include HPV as required for school attendance for ANYONE. But states can do whatever they want, and they have been trying to mandate the HPV vaccine for years, as it was even a hot topic of debate with Gov. Perry in Texas when he ran for president.

This NY bill is clear - it includes daycare and young children. And that is how lawmakers are interpreting, as I quoted above with the Assemblyman from Warsaw.

No, it doesn't. You are mis-representing what it actually says. I have posted it twice now. You choose to ignore it to suit your own purposes. Facts are problems.


D. EVERY PERSON IN PARENTAL RELATION TO A CHILD IN THIS STATE ENTERING
OR HAVING ENTERED SEVENTH GRADE OR A COMPARABLE AGE LEVEL SPECIAL EDUCA-
TION PROGRAM WITH AN UNASSIGNED GRADE ON OR AFTER SEPTEMBER FIRST, TWO
THOUSAND TWENTY-ONE, SHALL HAVE ADMINISTERED TO SUCH CHILD AN ADEQUATE
DOSE OR DOSES OF IMMUNIZING AGENTS AGAINST HUMAN PAPILLOMAVIRUS (HPV)

Seventh grade is the age it is to be required for. Only parts with all caps are proposed changes.

[Created4]

You are mis-representing what it actually says.

No, I am quoting the actual language from the bill, as well as other lawmakers. You are the one clearly "mis-representing" with your strawman arguments trying to make people believe the bill is dead.

[Created4]

So? I am for that.



Good for you Komrad. What brings you to a libertarian forum?

[Brian4Liberty]

...
The existing law covers many types of vaccines and some are required at different ages. For the HPV vaccine, that age would be the seventh grade.

It’s a good thing that Big Mother dictates all of those specifics. There needs to be a law dictating how many times a week kids must eat their veggies, and which ones that have to eat.

[Zippyjuan]

No, I am quoting the actual language from the bill, as well as other lawmakers. You are the one clearly "mis-representing" with your strawman arguments trying to make people believe the bill is dead.

Read the bill. Find me the section which shows what age the HPV vaccine is required to be obtained by. Hint: It is the section I posted three times now.

The following is just a definition of terms, and not a required age:


b. The term "child" shall mean and include any person between the ages of two months and eighteen years.

Here is the section listing the ages for DPT:


Every person in parental relation to a child in this state born on
or after January first, nineteen hundred ninety-four and entering sixth
grade or a comparable age level special education program with an unas-
signed grade on or after September first, two thousand seven, shall have
administered to such child a booster immunization containing diphtheria
and tetanus toxoids, and an acellular pertussis vaccine, which meets the
standards approved by the United States public health service for such
biological products, and which is approved by the department under such
conditions as may be specified by the public health AND HEALTH PLANNING
council.

Or is that also required by two months?

[Created4]

Read the bill.

I have, and you are wrong about many things. The bill is here (https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2019/s298).

The first thing to notice is that bill is NOT stuck in committee as you wrongly claimed, but has already passed both the Senate and House and only awaits the Governor's signature.

Who the bill applies to is also clearly stated, as I have already posted here numerous times. It includes small children in day care for the future.

And here is what New York State Assemblyman David DiPietro has said (https://www.couriercountry.com/articles/albany-mandate-would-eliminate-parent-choice-regarding-vaccinations/):


New York State Assemblyman David DiPietro visited Warsaw on Thursday, Nov. 14 to discuss with the community upcoming bills mandating vaccines like the human papillomavirus and the flu.

“This is about the parental choice aspect that has been taken away from us, [this is] downright illegal,” DiPietro said.

His discussion was not about whether a child is vaccinated. Rather, he reiterated the fact that parents will no longer have a choice of whether their son or daughter is.

One of the possible new state laws set to take effect in January would require kids born on or after Jan. 1, 2009 who are entering public schools or daycares to receive the HPV vaccine.

This is being widely reported in the media, but somehow your interpretation is the right one? You didn't even know this bill had already been passed, and erroneously stated it died in committee....

[Zippyjuan]

I have, and you are wrong about many things. The bill is here (https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2019/s298).

The first thing to notice is that bill is NOT stuck in committee as you wrongly claimed, but has already passed both the Senate and House and only awaits the Governor's signature.

Who the bill applies to is also clearly stated, as I have already posted here numerous times. It includes small children in day care for the future.

And here is what New York State Assemblyman David DiPietro has said:

.

This is being widely reported in the media, but somehow your interpretation is the right one? You didn't even know this bill had already been passed, and erroneously stated it died in committee....

Your own link shows it still in committee- not "passed by both houses and awaiting signature by the governor". You should read your own links before posting.


Sent to the Health Committee in January where it still sits. Never made it to the calendar of bills to be considered on the floor.

Try reading the actual bill while you are there.

[Krugminator2]

Good for you Komrad. What brings you to a libertarian forum?


My position is the libertarian position. That's why I cited Walter Block.

Libertarian != anti-science dimwit

[Created4]

Your own link shows it still in committee- not "passed by both houses and awaiting signature by the governor".

I stand corrected. I was looking at the graphic and mis-read it.

But the legislature is not even in session, and the bill is certainly not dead. I do hope it dies in committee...

[Brian4Liberty]

So? I am for that.

Walter Block on forced vaccination. https://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/02/walter-e-block/forced-vaccinations/

"Ah but suppose the Typhoid Mary refuses to be vaccinated; I argue she must be compelled to do so. Also, it is possible that the vaccination will not work for all possible victims. Suppose they are too sick to be vaccinated. I think it is the responsibility of the disease carrier to stop infecting other people, not the responsibility of possible victims to protect themselves. "

"I agree with you. If the disease carrier quarantines herself to her own property, we may not force her to become inoculated. But this would have to be a very serious quarantine. Typhoid Mary would not only have to stay on her own property; she would have to insure that the disease cannot be carried by air to others. Practically speaking, she could make no such guarantee. So, I think that strict adherence to the NAP would justify compelling her to stop what is in effect her aggression."

Walter Block has his ass handed to him on that. And he had to backtrack substantially before he was done. There is a continuum of how contagious and deadly a disease may be, and also a consideration of how dangerous the proposed preventative action. Block choose the most contagious and deadly case he could think of. He could have also used Ebola. He essentially finally concluded that mandates would only apply to the most extreme end of the spectrum.

HPV is nowhere near that end of of the spectrum. I suspect Block would oppose mandatory HPV vaccination.

I would say that Block’s example borders on hyperbole beyond reality. What actions and laws would be justified in a zombie apocalypse? It’s ridiculous to even consider, and ignorant to propose such scenarios when they will bolster real world totalitarian mommy government.

And as he is primarily an economist, perhaps he should consider that a vaccination is a product, and he had proposed (in a limited and extreme situation) that government mandate purchase of that product.

Come back when Ebola outbreaks occur in the US. That is zombie apocalypse level. Drastic, emergency measures would become necessary. Until then, it’s support for Big Mommy government.

[Created4]

My position is the libertarian position.

Forcing unvaccinated children to get vaccines as a requirement to go to public places, including private property such retail stores and malls, is hardly a libertarian position.

As to your snide "anti-science" pejorative, I doubt that you are intelligent enough to have a serious discussion on the "science" behind the HPV vaccine.

[Ender]

My position is the libertarian position. That's why I cited Walter Block.

Libertarian != anti-science dimwit

I am not anti-science- LOVE quantum physics! AND have never been, or ever will be, vaccinated. And, I'm the healthiest person I know.

Also, science changes continually.

Pluto's not a planet-
Wait yes, it is-
Now it is not.

The brontosaurus in everyone's fav dinosaur.
Oops, sorry, there never were any brontosauruses.
Brontosauruses are back!!!

And, if you believe in the "Deep State", then you'd better look up Big Pharma- no different than the MIC. PLUS- .gov has no business in medicine.

[Krugminator2]

Forcing unvaccinated children to get vaccines as a requirement to go to public places, including private property such retail stores and malls, is hardly a libertarian position.

As to your snide "anti-science" pejorative, I doubt that you are intelligent enough to have a serious discussion on the "science" behind the HPV vaccine.


I know nothing about HPV or the vaccine. I am talking about vaccines in general. I listen to people who are experts. On one side you have Alex Jones, Jenny McCarthy and a maybe a fringe doctor or two. On the other side you have 99.8% of doctors and medical researchers. I tend to just listen to what experts say unless there is a compelling reason not to.

[Origanalist]

Good for you Komrad. What brings you to a libertarian forum?

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Created4 again.

[Krugminator2]

HPV is nowhere near that end of of the spectrum. I suspect Block would oppose mandatory HPV vaccination.



Which is why the first sentence I wrote "I have no idea if this is needed or not but that isn't forced vaccination."

I am inclined to think HPV isn't necessary. But measles and polio? I think those meet the threshold. And the undercurrent of these threads is always some variation of vaccines are dangerous and a plot by pharmaceutical companies in conjunction with the government to give children autism.

[Krugminator2]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Created4 again.


Yes. Walter Block, Communist

[Origanalist]

I know nothing about HPV or the vaccine.

It's pretty tempting to put that in my sig line.

[Origanalist]

Yes. Walter Block, Communist

Walter Block, idiot.

[Origanalist]

I am not anti-science- LOVE quantum physics! AND have never been, or ever will be, vaccinated. And, I'm the healthiest person I know.

Also, science changes continually.

Pluto's not a planet-
Wait yes, it is-
Now it is not.

The brontosaurus in everyone's fav dinosaur.
Oops, sorry, there never were any brontosauruses.
Brontosauruses are back!!!

And, if you believe in the "Deep State", then you'd better look up Big Pharma- no different than the MIC. PLUS- .gov has no business in medicine.

You aren't healthy until you're Walter Block healthy.

[Origanalist]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRb0uOnx2nA

[Krugminator2]

It's pretty tempting to put that in my sig line.

Why? It is what reasonable be do. Medicine is a specialized topic. There is no reason for me to have a strong knowledge of it.

I tend to listen to people like the American Medical Association and not messageboard posters. https://www.ama-assn.org/about/leadership/physicians-agree-vaccination-crucial-public-health

[Origanalist]

Why? It is what reasonable be do. Medicine is a specialized topic. There is no reason for me to have a strong knowledge of it.

I tend to listen to people like the American Medical Association and not messageboard posters. https://www.ama-assn.org/about/leadership/physicians-agree-vaccination-crucial-public-health

Well, there you go. Still not eating butter and reducing the fat content in your diet and killing your babies?

[Brian4Liberty]

Which is why the first sentence I wrote "I have no idea if this is needed or not but that isn't forced vaccination."

I am inclined to think HPV isn't necessary. But measles and polio? I think those meet the threshold. And the undercurrent of these threads is always some variation of vaccines are dangerous and a plot by pharmaceutical companies in conjunction with the government to give children autism.

You wrote that in a later post in response to another person. But that is similar to what Walter Block said: “I'm not enough of a biologist to know the specifics about these sorts of things, so I'll just make assumptions.”

[Created4]

On one side you have Alex Jones, Jenny McCarthy and a maybe a fringe doctor or two. On the other side you have 99.8% of doctors and medical researchers.

How about "thousands of doctors." And the ones who dare to come forward and challenge the controlled narrative on vaccines? "Fringe" is about the only thing you wrote that is correct. Doctors who think for themselves and do their own research rather than depend upon Pharma based propaganda are indeed "fringe."

But for now, let's just stick with the HPV vaccine:

Merck’s Former Doctor Predicts that Gardasil will Become the Greatest Medical Scandal of All Time (https://vaccineimpact.com/2014/mercks-former-doctor-predicts-that-gardasil-will-become-the-greatest-medical-scandal-of-all-time/)

French Cancer Surgeon: Statistics Show HPV Gardasil Vaccine Linked to Increased Cervical Cancer Rates After Years of Decline Due to Pap Smears (https://vaccineimpact.com/2019/french-cancer-surgeon-statistics-show-hpv-gardasil-vaccine-linked-to-increased-cervical-cancer-rates-after-years-of-decline-due-to-pap-smears/)

Japanese Doctor Discovers Link Between HPV Vaccine and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (https://vaccineimpact.com/2016/japanese-doctor-discovers-link-between-hpv-vaccine-and-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/)

Nearly Half of the Doctors in U.S. Not Routinely Recommending HPV Vaccine (https://vaccineimpact.com/2015/nearly-half-of-the-doctors-in-u-s-not-routinely-recommending-hpv-vaccine/)

Many U.S. Pediatricians and Family Doctors Not Recommending Gardasil HPV Vaccine (https://vaccineimpact.com/2016/many-u-s-pediatricians-and-family-doctors-not-recommending-gardasil-hpv-vaccine/)

Danish Doctor Issues Warning about HPV Vaccine: “The Vaccine Should be Stopped Immediately!” (https://vaccineimpact.com/2018/danish-doctor-issues-warning-about-hpv-vaccine-the-vaccine-should-be-stopped-immediately/)

French Medical Professionals Ask: Are HPV Vaccines Necessary? (https://vaccineimpact.com/2014/french-medical-professionals-ask-are-hpv-vaccines-necessary/)

[Created4]

I tend to listen to people like the American Medical Association

Not surprised.

https://vaccineimpact.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2015/02/Doctors-against-mandatory-vaccines.jpg


One of the myths propagated by the corporate-sponsored “mainstream” media is that medical doctors are united in their support of mandatory vaccination laws.

This is simply not true. The medical doctors and physician groups that have taken a stand against mandatory vaccination laws are almost never interviewed in the corporate media, and if they are referred to at all, they are called “quacks.”

The largest medical association in the world is the American Medical Association (AMA), which has strong ties to the pharmaceutical industry and probably represents more lobbyists in Washington D.C. than any other trade group.

And yet, less than 25% of the licensed medical doctors in the United States are members of the AMA, down from 75% in the late 1950s.

So it would be incorrect to believe that the AMA represents the views of most of the physicians in the U.S. They do not.

Full Article. (https://vaccineimpact.com/2019/medical-doctors-across-the-u-s-speak-out-against-mandatory-vaccination-laws/)

See Also:

American Medical Revolutions: How the AMA Took Over America (https://healthimpactnews.com/2012/american-medical-revolutions-how-the-ama-took-over-america/)

Intro:


About 170 years ago our ancestors forced the repeal of licensing laws which had created a monopoly over the practice of medicine for orthodox physicians. Ordinary people, farmers, artisans, tradesmen and others got together and forced politicians to act on their behalf. They were tired of bloodletting, and harsh medications like mercury compounds that ruined their teeth and weakened their bodies. They opted for kinder and gentler alternatives with lower casualty rates, particularly the newly introduced homeopathy. They were impressed that tiny doses of medicine were able to cure cholera much better than the massive doses used by orthodox physicians.

Libertarian you are not.

[Krugminator2]

Not surprised.

https://vaccineimpact.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2015/02/Doctors-against-mandatory-vaccines.jpg



Full Article. (https://vaccineimpact.com/2019/medical-doctors-across-the-u-s-speak-out-against-mandatory-vaccination-laws/)

See Also:

American Medical Revolutions: How the AMA Took Over America (https://healthimpactnews.com/2012/american-medical-revolutions-how-the-ama-took-over-america/)

Intro:



Libertarian you are not.


86% of doctors support mandatory MMR vaccination (which I do not). https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2015/01/29/public-and-scientists-views-on-science-and-society/#_Chapter_3:_Attitudes

Given that you don't have an understanding of mandatory and voluntary, you should spend some more time exploring libertarian ideas. Public school is optional. No one is forced to go.

[Swordsmyth]

Given that you don't have an understanding of mandatory and voluntary, you should spend some more time exploring libertarian ideas. Public school is optional. No one is forced to go.
Everyone is forced to pay for them which causes many people to not be able to afford anything else and this is not just about public schools.

[Krugminator2]

Everyone is forced to pay for them which causes many people to not be able to afford anything else and this is not just about public schools.

That's kind of the problem with government schools in the first place. It is one more reason to expand vouchers. Not a reason to give into people with fringe views.

[Zippyjuan]

That's kind of the problem with government schools in the first place. It is one more reason to expand vouchers. Not a reason to give into people with fringe views.

Which would have taxpayers funding private schools as well as public ones.

[Krugminator2]

Which would have taxpayers funding private schools as well as public ones.

I am for that.

[Zippyjuan]

I am for that.

If the government is funding them, are they still "private"?

[Created4]

86% of doctors support mandatory MMR vaccination (which I do not).

Thank you. You just proved my point and contradicted yourself. How many doctors are there in the U.S.? Take 14% of those (based on your statement) who don't drink the Kool Aid.


On one side you have Alex Jones, Jenny McCarthy and a maybe a fringe doctor or two. On the other side you have 99.8% of doctors and medical researchers.

[Krugminator2]

If the government is funding them, are they still "private"?

I think so. The government's role would just be writing a check not the administration of education. I don't see a very good alternative. In theory, I would be for just eliminating any government role in education. But in practice, I realize many kids have negligent parents. Education is the only way those kids will have any chance in life. So I am for a voucher system.

[Krugminator2]

Thank you. You just proved my point and contradicted yourself. How many doctors are there in the U.S.? Take 14% of those (based on your statement) who don't drink the Kool Aid.


No contradiction. 86% are for mandatory vaccination. A significant percentage of that remaining 14% like Rand Paul would say vaccines are safe and parents should be strongly encouraged but not required to vaccinate.

I can't find the exact percentage of doctors and researchers who say they are dangerous. I am guessing pretty low. I can't find ANY reputable site that says they are dangerous. Whereas the Mayo Clinic, AMA, Stanford, CDC all say they are safe. If you could point to a reputable place that says parents shouldn't vaccinate that would be great.

[Danke]

86% of doctors support mandatory MMR vaccination (which I do not). https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2015/01/29/public-and-scientists-views-on-science-and-society/#_Chapter_3:_Attitudes

Given that you don't have an understanding of mandatory and voluntary, you should spend some more time exploring libertarian ideas. Public school is optional. No one is forced to go.

Oh, so me childless, can stop paying taxes for Latisha down the block with 9 kids to pay for them in government schools?

[Created4]

86% are for mandatory vaccination. A significant percentage of that remaining 14% like Rand Paul would say vaccines are safe and parents should be strongly encouraged but not required to vaccinate.

You speak for the 14%?

Rand Paul is not a medical doctor. He is not licensed to practice medicine.


No contradiction.

You've contradicted yourself multiple times in this thread...

[euphemia]

Oh, so me childless, can stop paying taxes for Latisha down the block with 9 kids to pay for them in government schools?

You live down the block from Latisha?

[Krugminator2]

You speak for the 14%?

Rand Paul is not a medical doctor. He is not licensed to practice medicine.



You've contradicted yourself multiple times in this thread...


If you could point out a contradiction that would be great.

And Rand Paul is a licensed medical doctor. Who are you? Rachel Maddow? He still practices pro bono. Also Duke Med School grad. Where did you attend? Johns Hopkins? Harvard?

Also still waiting on that reputable site that says vaccines are dangerous and there is a good reason not to vaccinate. Just one site would do.

[Created4]

And Rand Paul is a licensed medical doctor. Who are you? Rachel Maddow? He still practices pro bono. Also Duke Med School grad. Where did you attend? Johns Hopkins? Harvard?


Rand Paul is not a licensed medical doctor and never has been to my knowledge. Please provide your reference otherwise. He is an ophthalmologist, and I do not believe he holds any license anymore. (Source (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rand-pauls-addresses-ophthalmology-certification-questions/).) I have never head of an ophthalmologist giving vaccines, but it wouldn't surprise me if some states now allow that.

[Danke]

You live down the block from Latisha?

Don't we all?

[Stratovarious]

I know nothing about HPV or the vaccine. I am talking about vaccines in general. I listen to people who are experts. On one side you have Alex Jones, Jenny McCarthy and a maybe a fringe doctor or two. On the other side you have 99.8% of doctors and medical researchers. I tend to just listen to what experts say unless there is a compelling reason not to.

99.8%

Why does this sound so much like Al Gore's Junk scientist figures...

The science is in?

:frog:

[Created4]

I can't find ANY reputable site that says they are dangerous. Whereas the Mayo Clinic, AMA, Stanford, CDC all say they are safe. If you could point to a reputable place that says parents shouldn't vaccinate that would be great.

Who is saying parents should not vaccinate?? Certainly not me. I am all for parental rights, and if a parent wants to vaccinate, that is their right.

I have already addressed the credibility problem with using the AMA as a "source" of truthful information. As far as the CDC, they earn billions from patents on vaccines, and they are also the largest purchaser of vaccines - over $5 billion a year. Of course it is the American taxpayer buying these vaccines.

See:

Should the CDC Oversee Vaccine Safety When They Purchase Over $5 Billion of Vaccines from Big Pharma? (https://vaccineimpact.com/2018/should-the-cdc-oversee-vaccine-safety-when-they-purchase-over-5-billion-of-vaccines-from-big-pharma/)

A reputable source that says vaccines are dangerous?

How about the HHS, DOJ, and Supreme Court? Are they good enough for you?

Here is a list of quarterly reports supplied by the DOJ, from the HHS government websites on payouts for injuries and deaths due to vaccines that are paid out by the Vaccine Court (https://vaccineimpact.com/vaccine-injuries-and-deaths-compensated-through-vaccine-court/).

Supreme Court Decision - look at Bruesewitz v. Wyeth (https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/publishing/preview/publiced_preview_briefs_pdfs_09_10_09_152_Petition erAmCuNVICand24Orgs.authcheckdam.pdf) where they ruled that vaccines are "Unavoidably unsafe."

[donnay]

99.8%

Why does this sound so much like Al Gore's Junk scientist figures...

The science is in?

:frog:

99.8% that are funding in some way by Big pHARMa to publish and report what they want.

[Krugminator2]

Rand Paul is not a licensed medical doctor and never has been to my knowledge. Please provide your reference otherwise. He is an ophthalmologist, and I do not believe he holds any license anymore. (Source (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rand-pauls-addresses-ophthalmology-certification-questions/).) I have never head of an ophthalmologist giving vaccines, but it wouldn't surprise me if some states now allow that.


Is licensed. Here is he is performing surgery October 2nd, 2019. https://spectrumnews1.com/ky/lexington/news/2019/10/02/senator-rand-paul-does-eye-surgery-pro-bono-

Board certification is not a license. And he passed board certification first try and would have zero trouble passing again. He never had any issue with that. He formed a competing board so he got smeared for that.

I am pointing out he a doctor who went through medical school. The onus is not on me to prove the safety and efficacy of vaccines.

[Swordsmyth]

This article makes the case that even in regions where HPV vaccination has reduced HPV lesions, rates of cervical cancer continue to increase (https://www.blacklistednews.com/article/75586/gardasil--the-anticancer-vaccination-that-increases-the-risk-of-cervical-cancer-in-young.html)

[Krugminator2]

Who is saying parents should not vaccinate?? Certainly not me. I am all for parental rights, and if a parent wants to vaccinate, that is their right.

I have already addressed the credibility problem with using the AMA as a "source" of truthful information. As far as the CDC, they earn billions from patents on vaccines, and they are also the largest purchaser of vaccines - over $5 billion a year. Of course it is the American taxpayer buying these vaccines.

See:

Should the CDC Oversee Vaccine Safety When They Purchase Over $5 Billion of Vaccines from Big Pharma? (https://vaccineimpact.com/2018/should-the-cdc-oversee-vaccine-safety-when-they-purchase-over-5-billion-of-vaccines-from-big-pharma/)

A reputable source that says vaccines are dangerous?

How about the HHS, DOJ, and Supreme Court? Are they good enough for you?

Here is a list of quarterly reports supplied by the DOJ, from the HHS government websites on payouts for injuries and deaths due to vaccines that are paid out by the Vaccine Court (https://vaccineimpact.com/vaccine-injuries-and-deaths-compensated-through-vaccine-court/).

Supreme Court Decision - look at Bruesewitz v. Wyeth (https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/publishing/preview/publiced_preview_briefs_pdfs_09_10_09_152_Petition erAmCuNVICand24Orgs.authcheckdam.pdf) where they ruled that vaccines are "Unavoidably unsafe."

Clicked on your crackpot site link. Took one look. Not reading anything on it. Do better. Don't care even a little bit about where the CDC gets money.

Googled "unavoidably unsafe" and that case and apparently that is what nutters interpreted that ruling as.

[Stratovarious]

...Don't care even a little bit about where the CDC gets money.

...

DING DING DING DING DING DING!!!!!


''Hold my beer.....''


:frog:

[Origanalist]

If the government is funding them, are they still "private"?

No.

[Origanalist]

I think so. The government's role would just be writing a check not the administration of education. I don't see a very good alternative. In theory, I would be for just eliminating any government role in education. But in practice, I realize many kids have negligent parents. Education is the only way those kids will have any chance in life. So I am for a voucher system.

Lol....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXWhbUUE4ko

[Origanalist]

DING DING DING DING DING DING!!!!!


''Hold my beer.....''


:frog:

The science is settled.........

[Danke]

Oh, so me childless, can stop paying taxes for Latisha down the block with 9 kids to pay for them in government schools?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4zyjLyBp64&feature=emb_title

[Anti Federalist]

Don't we all?

I don't.

[devil21]

I am staying out of this thread because seeing the same people who mumble that Big pHARMa is hiding the cure for cancer because the money is in the treatment simultaneously screeching that a vaccine that would prevent almost all cervical cancer is also a ploy to kill people for profit makes me want to gouge my eyes out. They contradict themselves at every single turn.

Do not get medical advice from the people who post on these forums, Brian. I spent 10 years fact-checking their posts, and one of the many things I learned is that their beliefs are not based on anything evidence-based. It's like a religion to them.

The only reason not to get the vaccine is because you don't want one. But their crazy conspiracies will be the reason the freedom to make that choice will soon disappear.

A false choice and a strawman. It's quite possible that killing people isn't the goal of Gardasil. Slowing reproduction rates, on the other hand....well....

US birth rates falls for 4th year in a row...not enough to replenish population
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/u-s-birth-rate-falls-4th-year-row-n1091446

Depopulation is most definitely part of Agenda 2030 and is even heralded on the Georgia Guidestones.

eta: Trump's own SecEnergy Rick Perry signed an EO in 2007, 12 years ago, mandating Gardasil for kids in TX. Those same kids are now of standard child bearing age. And population growth is down since the years of his EO in one of the most populous freedom loving states in the country. Hmm....the legislature pushed back and "vacated" his EO (did it really?) but it demonstrates that vaccines aren't necessarily about killing people, per se, but instead considered part of depopulation agenda via reduction in birth rates.
---------------------------------

And keep signin' those birth certificates folks. That is what legally gives them the authority to force "your" children to be vaccinated. After age 5, the child is considered "unclaimed property" according to international merchant law and the state assumes ownership. The parent becomes a temporary caretaker of the state's property. Coincidence that public schooling starts around the same time? Ha.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgWcBV9_kLM

Harris-Perry. Hmm... (^^^reptilian)

[Danke]

I don't.

You will. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/customavatars/thumbs/avatar28857_2.gif

[Stratovarious]

99.8% that are funding in some way by Big pHARMa to publish and report what they want.
You cannot give Reputation to the same post twice.

[Stratovarious]

Don't we all?Sage comment, So true.....

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Danke again.

[Stratovarious]

I am staying out of this thread because seeing the same people who mumble that Big pHARMa is hiding the cure for cancer because the money is in the treatment simultaneously screeching that a vaccine that would prevent almost all cervical cancer is also a ploy to kill people for profit makes me want to gouge my eyes out. They contradict themselves at every single turn.

Do not get medical advice from the people who post on these forums, Brian. I spent 10 years fact-checking their posts, and one of the many things I learned is that their beliefs are not based on anything evidence-based. It's like a religion to them.

The only reason not to get the vaccine is because you don't want one. But their crazy conspiracies will be the reason the freedom to make that choice will soon disappear.:check:

[Stratovarious]

There is nothing to tie Big Pharma to Rick Perry, or any legislated mandates,
anyone that promulgates such utter, nonsensical-fantasy is really just teh stoopid' dumdum little boys....
:frog:

'' It emerged that Merck's political action committee had donated $5,000 to the governor's campaign at the same moment their executives were negotiating with the governor's staff. Merck would eventually donate nearly $30,000 to Perry and more than $377,000 to the Republican Governors Association, which Perry chaired. ''https://www.npr.org/2011/09/16/140530716/in-texas-perrys-vaccine-mandate-provoked-anger

[donnay]

One of my dearest friends took the HPV vaccine, per her doctor's suggestion, over three years ago. Now she has cervical cancer and has been going through horrific toxic chemo therapy with more false hope by the same people who told her the HPV vaccine would save her from the beginning.

So gouge out your eyes on that one, you fool.

[Zippyjuan]

One of my dearest friends took the HPV vaccine, per her doctor's suggestion, over three years ago. Now she has cervical cancer and has been going through horrific toxic chemo therapy with more false hope by the same people who told her the HPV vaccine would save her from the beginning.

So gouge out your eyes on that one, you fool.

Sorry to hear about your friend. However, it takes longer than three years for cervical cancer to develop so the vaccine could not have caused it.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/467126_3


Although rapid progression is possible, average time from initial infection to manifestation of invasive cervical cancer is estimated at up to 15 years.

That means she probably already had cervical cancer before she was vaccinated.

[donnay]

Sorry to hear about your friend. However, it takes longer than three years for cervical cancer to develop so the vaccine could not have caused it.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/467126_3



That means she probably already had cervical cancer before she was vaccinated.



Although rapid progression is possible, average time from initial infection to manifestation of invasive cervical cancer is estimated at up to 15 years.

No one in her family and she has 5 sisters and a mother and grandmothers who never had any issue.


Cancer is not a disease, it's a Big Business.

[Anti Federalist]

One of my dearest friends took the HPV vaccine, per her doctor's suggestion, over three years ago. Now she has cervical cancer and has been going through horrific toxic chemo therapy with more false hope by the same people who told her the HPV vaccine would save her from the beginning.

So gouge out your eyes on that one, you fool.

No vaccine related but that closely resembles "you know who's" situation as well.

Where suspected mild prostate cancer in a 65 year old man was aggressively treated and removed, at the medical establishment's urging.

By going in and molesting the cancerous area, (against what I recommended) in two months it has now spread into the rest of his body and will most likely kill him.

Mission Accomplished.

[donnay]

No vaccine related but that closely resembles "you know who's" situation as well.

Where suspected mild prostate cancer in a 65 year old man was aggressively treated and removed, at the medical establishment's urging.

By going in and molesting the cancerous area, (against what I recommended) in two months it has now spread into the rest of his body and will most likely kill him.

Mission Accomplished.

Paid into the ponzi scheme to not be able to collect...but they will suck every penny out of you before you die.

Time to wake up, folks!!

[Swordsmyth]

Also still waiting on that reputable site that says vaccines are dangerous and there is a good reason not to vaccinate. Just one site would do.
Attacking The Source: The Establishment Loyalist's Favorite Online Tactic (https://www.zerohedge.com/political/attacking-source-establishment-loyalists-favorite-online-tactic)
“You’re only allowed to criticise establishment power using outlets which never criticize establishment power...”