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View Full Version : Was There Another Reason For Electricity Shutdowns In California?




Swordsmyth
11-02-2019, 09:13 PM
According to the official, widely reported story, Pacific Gas & Electric (PG&E) shut down (https://www.theepochtimes.com/t-shut-down) substantial portions of its electric transmission system in northern California (https://www.theepochtimes.com/t-california) as a precautionary measure.
Citing high wind speeds they described as “historic,” the utility claims that if they didn’t turn off the grid, wind-caused damage to their infrastructure could start more wildfires in the area.
Perhaps that’s true. Perhaps. This tale presumes that the folks who designed and maintain PG&E’s transmission system are unaware of or ignored the need to design it to withstand severe weather events, and that the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) and North American Electric Reliability Corporation (NERC) allowed the utility to do so.


Ignorance and incompetence happens, to be sure, but there’s much about this story that doesn’t smell right—and it’s disappointing that most journalists and elected officials are apparently accepting it without question.
Take, for example, this statement (https://www.foxnews.com/us/northern-california-wildfire-evacuations-expand-to-90000-residents) from a Fox News story about the Kincade Fires: “A PG&E meteorologist said it’s ‘likely that many trees will fall, branches will break,’ which could damage utility infrastructure and start a fire.”
Did you ever notice how utilities cut wide swaths of trees away when transmission lines pass through forests? There’s a reason for that: When trees fall and branches break the grid can still function.
So, if badly designed and poorly maintained infrastructure is not the reason PG&E cut power to millions of Californians, what might have prompted them to do so? Could it be that PG&E’s heavy reliance on renewable energy means they don’t have the power to send when an “historic” weather event occurs?


The two most popular forms of renewable energy come with operating limitations. With solar power the constraint is obvious: the availability of sunlight. One does not generate solar power at night and energy generation drops off with increasing degrees of cloud cover during the day.
The main operating constraint of wind power (https://www.theepochtimes.com/t-wind-power) is, of course, wind speed. At the low end of the scale, you need about a 6 or 7 mph wind to get a turbine moving. This is called the “cut-in speed.” To generate maximum power, about a 30 mph wind is typically required. But, if the wind speed is too high, the wind turbine will shut down. This is called the “cut-out speed,” and it’s about 55 mph for most modern wind turbines.
It may seem odd that wind turbines have a cut-out speed, but there’s a very good reason for it. Each wind turbine rotor (https://www.energy.gov/eere/wind/inside-wind-turbine) is connected to an electric generator housed in the turbine nacelle. The connection is made through a gearbox that is sized to turn the generator at the precise speed required to produce 60 Hertz AC power.
The blades of the wind turbine are airfoils, just like the wings of an airplane. Adjusting the pitch (angle) of the blades allows the rotor to maintain constant speed, which in turn allows the generator to maintain the constant speed it needs to safely deliver power to the grid. However, there’s a limit to blade pitch adjustment. When the wind is blowing so hard that pitch adjustment is no longer possible, the turbine shuts down. That’s the cut-out speed.
Now consider how California’s power generation profile has changed. According to Energy Information Administration data, the state generated 74.3 percent of its electricity from traditional sources—fossil fuels and nuclear—in 2001. Hydroelectric, geothermal, and biomass-generated power accounted for most of the remaining 25.7 percent, with wind and solar providing only 1.98 percent of the total.
By 2018, the state’s renewable portfolio had jumped to 43.8 percent of total generation, with wind and solar now accounting for 17.9 percent of total generation. That’s a lot of power to depend on from inherently unreliable sources.
Thus, it would not be at all surprising to learn that PG&E didn’t stop delivering power out of fear of starting fires, but because it knew it wouldn’t have power to deliver once high winds shut down all those wind turbines.


https://www.zerohedge.com/political/was-there-another-reason-electricity-shutdowns-california

Zippyjuan
11-02-2019, 09:36 PM
Thus, it would not be at all surprising to learn that PG&E didn’t stop delivering power out of fear of starting fires, but because it knew it wouldn’t have power to deliver once high winds shut down all those wind turbines.

Fake news. The wind turbines are mostly near the coast where there are steady breezes- not inland where the Santa Ana winds blow and the fires often start. Inland winds are not consistent enough. Zerohedge is wrong. PG&E lost $billions when sparks from their transmission lines caused many of last year's highly costly fires. So the shut downs are seen as liability protection. But now there is the liability for damaged due to loss of power to those regions effected.

Wind energy (including wind energy farms in other the states) accounts for just 7% of California's energy.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/California_wind_resource_map_50m_800.jpg/800px-California_wind_resource_map_50m_800.jpg

Brian4Liberty
11-02-2019, 10:42 PM
Sounds like nonsense.

The real problems are aging power lines, ignorant environmental Nazis who don’t want any cutting, clean-up or forest management, and an incompetent Democrat majority that can’t manage anything.

There is an expected annual fire season in California. Nothing new there. Either people clean up, or Mother Nature cleans with fire.

Grandmastersexsay
11-03-2019, 08:41 AM
I seriously doubt wind turbines use a gearbox to maintain a constant 60 hz frequency. They probably use a dc generator and an inverter. Maybe a CVT would work, but that is still unlikely as they can't usually handle much torque and would be more expensive.

Anti Federalist
11-03-2019, 09:22 AM
I seriously doubt wind turbines use a gearbox to maintain a constant 60 hz frequency. They probably use a dc generator and an inverter. Maybe a CVT would work, but that is still unlikely as they can't usually handle much torque and would be more expensive.

That's precisely how they work. You'd never be able to set rotation speed by blade pitch.

But they do use a reverse reduction gear.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Yeqin_Wang2/publication/285635774/figure/fig1/AS:305128600031233@1449759735555/Schematic-diagram-of-a-PMSG-based-wind-turbine-with-back-to-back-converters.png

acptulsa
11-03-2019, 09:50 AM
I seriously doubt wind turbines use a gearbox to maintain a constant 60 hz frequency. They probably use a dc generator and an inverter. Maybe a CVT would work, but that is still unlikely as they can't usually handle much torque and would be more expensive.

Of course not. And what zerohedge said, that constant rpm is maintained by vane angle, is ridiculous. Any idiot can see those things don't maintain constant rpm. Look at a "farm" of them some time and find two turning the same speed. Wind spends all day varying in speed and direction. A turbine that only worked at one specific rpm would produce electricity about half an hour total on an average day. They'd be equally useless in dams, and only a little better in coal, gas and nuke plants.

Besides, they generate DC. Cycles per second does not apply.

It's zerohedge. Conspiracy Theories R Us. Constitutional law doesn't deter them from spinning what they want to spin, and clearly, neither do the laws of physics. Facts are irrelevant.

Pauls' Revere
11-03-2019, 10:31 AM
Here's my theory.

Remember the San Bruno gas explosion and the fire that resulted, PG&E was sued over that. Then came the Paradise Fire and the massive lawsuit that followed that event. So, as we know PG&E is bankrupt (broke) so they say now they're cutting power to stop fires.

Here's my question, has the Hetch Hetchy Reservoir stopped producing electricity? Have they shut it off? If not what are they doing with all the electricity that this dam produces?

My theory is that they are shutting off electricity to CA residents (in part) to reduce fire risk but also to divert power generated from generating sources to other states to make a profit to pay for the hundreds of millions they owe.

Why would a company that owes millions of dollars waste product (power generated from dams) when they could sell it off to surrounding states? I would love to see an investigation or reporting about this. Is Nevada buying more power from CA? Is PG&E diverting it to Oregon? Idk, but that's my conspiracy theory.

bv3
11-03-2019, 11:00 AM
Maybe be as simple as a major utility company admitting liability for weather hazards. Establishing a precedent: If a utility that causes public harm can be liable to the state, then another utility causing public harm can be liable to the state. What is the threat du jour? Climate Change. 2/5ths of human emissions being tied up in energy generation. So follow the logic from there. Though, they say aging infrastructure is indeed responsible for the blazes, and if that is true it seems to me that the people affected have grounds for suit--and that the state is appropriating their right to such.

Pauls' Revere
11-03-2019, 12:38 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/president-donald-trump-no-more-163454817.html

President Donald Trump: “No More” Money To Fight California Wildfires

As California burns, President Donald Trump has put its Governor on notice: there will be no more federal funding in the wildfire battle unless the state gets its forest management act together.
In a series of tweets this morning, Trump said Gov. Gavin Newsom has “done a terrible job of forest management.”

Zippyjuan
11-03-2019, 04:39 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/president-donald-trump-no-more-163454817.html

President Donald Trump: “No More” Money To Fight California Wildfires

As California burns, President Donald Trump has put its Governor on notice: there will be no more federal funding in the wildfire battle unless the state gets its forest management act together.
In a series of tweets this morning, Trump said Gov. Gavin Newsom has “done a terrible job of forest management.”

Two issues. One- the fires this season so far have not been in forests. Second, most of the forests in California are National Forests- meaning the responsibility of the Federal Government.

1190995034163892226

Pauls' Revere
11-03-2019, 04:44 PM
Two issues. One- the fires this season so far have not been in forests. Second, most of the forests in California are National Forests- meaning the responsibility of the Federal Government.

A tree by any other name still burns.

Pauls' Revere
11-03-2019, 04:46 PM
Two issues. One- the fires this season so far have not been in forests. Second, most of the forests in California are National Forests- meaning the responsibility of the Federal Government.

So, Trump is right. CA doesn't need the money.

Zippyjuan
11-03-2019, 04:48 PM
A tree by any other name still burns.

Actually they have been grasses and bushes.

Pauls' Revere
11-03-2019, 04:54 PM
Actually they have been grasses and bushes.

Kincade fire
The largest California fire burning right now started the evening of Oct. 23 near John Kincade Road and Burned Mountain Road, east of Geyserville and spread quickly toward homes in the town.
Acreage: 77,758
Containment: 68%
Evacuations: Most evacuations have been lifted, including for the cities of Calistoga, Windsor, Healdsburg, Santa Rosa and Napa County.
Damage: At least 352 structures were destroyed and 55 were damaged. Four civilians and firefighters were injured, but no deaths have been reported.
Schools: Sonoma County school districts are closed Friday.

Easy fire
The Easy fire ignited Wednesday near West Easy Street and West Los Angeles Avenue in Simi Valley, threatening the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library and surrounding homes. The library was not damaged in the blaze.
Acreage: 1,860
Containment: 80%
Evacuations: All evacuation orders have been lifted.
Damage: At least two structures were destroyed. Three firefighters have been injured.
Schools: Several schools in Ventura County remained closed Friday because of the Maria fire.

Getty fire
The Getty fire broke out along the 405 Freeway by Getty Center Drive around 1:30 a.m. Monday and blew up under Santa Ana winds. Thousands of people were ordered to evacuate some of the priciest enclaves on Earth, while the people who worked for them — housekeepers and gardners — reported for work despite the flames.
Acreage: 745
Containment: 66%
Evacuations: All evacuation orders have been lifted.
Damage: At least 10 homes have been destroyed and 15 were damaged. More than 7,000 houses remain threatened. Two firefighters were injured in the blaze, and no deaths have been reported.
Schools: The L.A. Unified School District said all schools were in session Friday.

Hill fire
The Hill fire started Wednesday morning near Granite Valley and Pyrite Street in Jurupa Valley. A day later, the 46 fire ignited nearby after a car chase came to a fiery end.
Acreage: 628
Containment: 80%
Evacuations: All evacuation orders have been lifted.
Damage: Two homes were damaged. One civilian was hurt.
Schools: All schools in the Jurupa Unified School District, except Granite Hill and Peralta Elementary schools, were open Friday.

Hillside fire
The Hillside fire in San Bernardino sparked early Thursday near Highway 18 at Waterman Canyon after fierce winds whipped up the destructive blaze and pushed it into neighborhoods.
Acreage: About 200 acres
Containment: 70%
Evacuations: All evacuation orders have been lifted.
Damage: Six homes were destroyed and 18 were damaged.
Schools: All San Bernardino County Unified School District schools were open Friday and Cal State San Bernardino reopened to students at 10 a.m.

46 fire:
The 46 fire broke out just after midnight Thursday near the 5300 block of 46th Avenue in Jurupa Valley, after a police pursuit ended in a crash that authorities say sparked the blaze. The fire threatened an animal shelter and sent ranch hands scrambling to evacuate horses amid a burning backdrop.
Acreage: 300
Containment: 70%
Evacuations: All evacuation orders have been lifted.
Damage: Several structures were damaged. One person was hospitalized with breathing problems from the smoke.
Schools: All schools in the Jurupa Unified School District, except Granite Hill and Peralta Elementary schools, were open Friday.

Pauls' Revere
11-03-2019, 04:55 PM
Actually they have been grasses and bushes.

https://weather.com/news/news/2019-10-10-california-power-shutoffs-wildfire-threat

Numerous mobile homes were destroyed Thursday in Calimesa, California, by a wildfire.
Electricity shutoffs continued Thursday for hundreds of thousands in Northern California.
Costs of the outages could top $1 billion, economists say.
One large wildfire has burned over 7.5 square miles in Mariposa County.