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Anti Federalist
09-23-2019, 11:33 AM
Brother Bezos

https://www.ericpetersautos.com/2019/09/23/brother-bezos/

By eric - September 23, 2019

Televangelism used to be where the easy money was . . . preaching about the End Times – which never came – and promising salvation, for a fee.

Put your hands on the television set and pray with me!

Insert tongue-talking gibberish here . . . and send in your $20.

Now the money’s in preaching eschatological “climate crisis” – formerly just “change” – and selling electric cars, to salve the soul.

You don’t even have to make them to sell them to the rubes who’ve bought in.

Step right up, Brother Bezos. It’s time for your anointing.

The founder of Amazon just agreed to buy 100,000 electric delivery vans from Rivian, the electric truck manufacturer.

But Rivian hasn’t manufactured anything yet – except promises that it will eventually manufacturer these theoretical vehicles, which it says – put your hand on the TV! – it will begin delivering about two years from now and the rest over the course of the next decade.

That’s a pretty sweet deal.

For Rivian. Maybe the policy will take hold generally and we’ll be able to get stuff on Amazon today and pay for it . . . later.

Brother Bezos has already sunk at least $700 million into Rivian – which is a de facto subsidiary (and subsidized) operation of the online retailer, something which hasn’t been generally reported.

This latest infusion ought to push the bar tab over $1 billion.

Maybe more.

Rivan has trotted out a couple of prototypes, one truck and one SUV – with the usual hagiographic press coverage following. It’ll go 400 miles – and go off-road! These are things any truck made circa 1985 could do, of course – and without the plug.

Or the wait.

And unlike a truck made circa 1985 – or 2020 – the lowest cost versions of the electric trucks will have an “estimated” base price of just under $70,000, according to the company.

This is more than twice the base price of a current-full-sized half-ton truck.

Probably, the delivery vans ordered by Bezos will be discounted somewhat because it’s a fleet buy and also because fleet vehicles are usually stripped down to just the basics.

Still, these theoretical vehicles are electric vehicles – and all EVs actually made so far (as opposed to perpetually promised) cost about 30-40 percent more than an otherwise comparable non-electric model, not counting the infrastructure needed to support them.

For a rough idea of the money involved, multiply 100,000 times $30,000 – half the estimated cost of the civilian vehicles Rivan has promised to make – which is probably a gross underestimate.

Of course, Amazon is a privately owned company and Bezos has every right to subsidize whatever he wants to using his own billions. In this respect, he’s less obnoxious than Elon Musk – the grabby-handed Pinocchio of electric cars.

But just as sinister.

Maybe the other arm of a coordinate pincer.

Musk took the homely, underperforming electric car and made it into a sexy, high-performance car. This had the same effect upon considerations of practicality and cost that going to a strip club and having six rum and Cokes has upon thoughts of marital fidelity.

The faithful will say they beeeeeeeeeelieve in “climate change” – but few want to be seen driving something slow and ugly.

Especially the affluent beeeeeeeeeeelievers, who want their faith but not the hairshirt they propose everyone else ought to don.

Elon showed them the way. He gave them the same thing some people get by attending a Joel Osteen rally.

And he normalized the now-pandemic religiously-fostered economic psychosis regarding electric cars and “climate change.”

Fifteen years after the founding of Tesla, considerations of cost and practicality are no longer considered . . . by anyone, it seems.

There is a crisis!

Beeeeeeeeeeelieve!

The rest of the car industry – which used to care about cost and practicality because it more or less had to – no longer does because buyers appear to have been convinced by all this sermonizing that such considerations no longer matter.

All that matters is that everyone drive an electric car – to save the earth.

Before it is Too Late!

We’ll figure out who pays for all of this later, when it is no longer possible to not buy an electric car – everyone else having “committed” to no longer producing them.

Which brings us back to Bezos, who is an ardent beeeeeeeliever in eschatological “climate crisis,” which he says will be upon us within ten years.

He says – through an Amazon spokesman – that this proposed fleet of electric delivery vehicles will “eliminate 4 million metric tons of carbon dioxide emissions” (not counting the “emissions” generated by the utility plants that produce the electricity these vans will trundle along on).

They’ll also eliminate the alternatives to them.

Big Tech and Big Government have locked arms together like Stalin and Molotov and Beria, walking toward the same goal.

By whatever means necessary – and regardless of cost and other practical considerations – EVs are going to be The Future.

Because we’ll have no choice.

. . .

UWDude
09-23-2019, 12:10 PM
Electric vehicles are a pretty good deal, especially where I and Amazon are based, in water rich/Hydro powered areas.
They also can be quite useful for delivery jobs, as their range is not much of an issue.
They are no good for family vacations, etc, since the infrastructure for electric is far from developed.

Hybrid and electric save a lot of money in the long run.



And unlike a truck made circa 1985 – or 2020 – the lowest cost versions of the electric trucks will have an “estimated” base price of just under $70,000, according to the company.

A good truck gets about 20 mpg. A delivery vehicle running 200 miles per day would cost about $32 a day here in Washington State.
That's $150 a work week, $600 a month, $7200 a year. It would take about 5 years, but then the Rivian would start to pay off.

phill4paul
09-23-2019, 12:25 PM
Electric vehicles are a pretty good deal, especially where I and Amazon are based, in water rich/Hydro powered areas.
They also can be quite useful for delivery jobs, as their range is not much of an issue.
They are no good for family vacations, etc, since the infrastructure for electric is far from developed.

Hybrid and electric save a lot of money in the long run.



A good truck gets about 20 mpg. A delivery vehicle running 200 miles per day would cost about $32 a day here in Washington State.
That's $150 a work week, $600 a month, $7200 a year. It would take about 5 years, but then the Rivian would start to pay off.

At which point their batteries will be at about a 3/4 mark and need replacing. For about $7500. Having a commuter is one thing. It will be interesting to see how these vehicles hold up under a commercial workload.

UWDude
09-23-2019, 01:26 PM
At which point their batteries will be at about a 3/4 mark and need replacing. For about $7500. Having a commuter is one thing. It will be interesting to see how these vehicles hold up under a commercial workload.

OK, so a dedicated mechanic costs $75,000 a year.
Now you can do the parts at about $750 each, and don't forget the spare parts bin which will fill up fast, regardless of electric or fuel.

If you have a fleet over about 15 trucks, it is still worth it, and a mechanic can fix other problems too. (fuel fleets need mechanics too) One mechanic could probably maintain a fleet of up to 60 trucks. And since they are all basically the same, maybe up to 72 or more.

phill4paul
09-23-2019, 01:49 PM
OK, so a dedicated mechanic costs $75,000 a year.
Now you can do the parts at about $750 each, and don't forget the spare parts bin which will fill up fast, regardless of electric or fuel.

If you have a fleet over about 15 trucks, it is still worth it, and a mechanic can fix other problems too. (fuel fleets need mechanics too) One mechanic could probably maintain a fleet of up to 60 trucks. And since they are all basically the same, maybe up to 72 or more.

When talking fleet vehicles one has to look at life-cycle. Which, I believe, is about 5 years. Anything beyond that and it is a money sink. I'm not sure how battery driven vehicles are going to act given this. We're talking vehicles running 100 hr's per week. Not commuters. That is a whole lot of cell drain and recharging.
But, that is just the battery. Every thing else on a fleet vehicle will wear at it's current rate.
So, the big question is, how will current batteries perform at a constant drain and recharge?

Origanalist
09-23-2019, 02:31 PM
I already have one.


(in before Danke)

Brian4Liberty
09-23-2019, 02:58 PM
I have never looked into the total energy required for the full life cycle of an electric vehicle versus a gasoline-powered vehicle. This would have to include everything that goes into the manufacturing of the vehicle, the entire process of creating the energy to drive the vehicle, maintenance, and what is required to eventually dispose of the vehicle. I doubt anyone really has.

One thing is for sure, we cannot have competition. We must decide on one option and stick with it to the end. As Beto O'Rourke would say, we must use government force to ensure compliance. And as Bernie Sanders would say, there are just too many choices out there.

Anti Federalist
09-23-2019, 03:07 PM
I have never looked into the total energy required for the full life cycle of an electric vehicle versus a gasoline-powered vehicle. This would have to include everything that goes into the manufacturing of the vehicle, the entire process of creating the energy to drive the vehicle, maintenance, and what is required to eventually dispose of the vehicle. I doubt anyone really has.

One thing is for sure, we cannot have competition. We must decide on one option and stick with it to the end. As Beto O'Rourke would say, we must use government force to ensure compliance. And as Bernie Sanders would say, there are just too many choices out there.

https://www.dw.com/image/48456350_7.png

Danke
09-23-2019, 03:23 PM
https://www.dw.com/image/48456350_7.png


I read what seemed to be a very thorough study, the conclusion was electric vehicle do produce less CO2, but the difference isn't that great...yet.

Danke
09-23-2019, 03:24 PM
I already have one.


(in before Danke)

I got two.

UWDude
09-23-2019, 03:46 PM
When talking fleet vehicles one has to look at life-cycle. Which, I believe, is about 5 years.

Wrong.


Every thing else on a fleet vehicle will wear at it's current rate.

Same with fuel driven vehicles, which I already mentioned, hence fuel fleets need a mechanic anyway.

phill4paul
09-23-2019, 03:49 PM
Wrong.



Lol. OK, Mr. Expert, with your irrefutable evidence.

UWDude
09-23-2019, 03:55 PM
Lol. OK, Mr. Expert, with your irrefutable evidence.

Only five years? Did you even think before you wrote that?

acptulsa
09-23-2019, 04:06 PM
Only five years? Did you even think before you wrote that?

The moving parts of an electric vehicle last nearly forever. The batteries--the heaviest, least recyclable and most expensive part--do not.

Einstein.

phill4paul
09-23-2019, 04:08 PM
Only five years? Did you even think before you wrote that?

I did. I spent all of five minutes checking figures.

How long did it take you to write out "wrong."

Feel free to extrapolate. Or just continue with your "feels."

I'll tell you right now you cannot tell me that battery operated vehicles can do "this" or "that."

Why? Because it hasn't been done.

But, please, continue on what you believe your "feels" holds for the future.

Origanalist
09-23-2019, 04:08 PM
I got two.

Dammit!

UWDude
09-23-2019, 04:11 PM
The moving parts of an electric vehicle last nearly forever. The batteries--the heaviest, least recyclable and most expensive part--do not.

Einstein.

He is talkign fleet life, einstein, not battery fleet life, einstein.

Hey, how many of you have done hands on Prius battery replacements?

I have!

And the guy I helped do it with did it for $300. He bought the replacement cells from a used cell dealer.


Feel free to extrapolate. Or just continue with your "feels."

If it was only five years, then we would see no fleets with vehicles more than five years old. Yet many heavy fleets have vehicles as old as 30 years or more.

acptulsa
09-23-2019, 04:15 PM
He is talkign fleet life, einstein, not battery fleet life, einstein.

He did not say that.

Only assholes put words in other people's mouths. Asshole.

UWDude
09-23-2019, 04:18 PM
He did not say that.

Only $#@!s put words in other people's mouths. $#@!.

GTFOOH, you have no idea what the conversation even is, bitch.

UWDude
09-23-2019, 04:31 PM
I bet, I will see some Google level wiki math next, about how much it costs to replace a Prius battery.
It will be shop mechanic price quoted.

Wrong.

So next, the Googly Googler, wanting to win the google fight, will understand it is cell replacement, and multiply the cost of the number of cells by the price per cell.

Also, Wrong.

Googly wikipedia book-right, know-how wrong.