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Matt Collins
09-15-2019, 01:13 PM
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gun-control-legislation-trump-expected-to-announce-proposal-next-week-but-substance-is-a-mystery-2019-09-14/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gun-control-legislation-trump-expected-to-announce-proposal-next-week-but-substance-is-a-mystery-2019-09-14/?fbclid=IwAR0QjI3FnONOSDmKfcL2RLlJMJRpInscYlNoRUJ_ TzWLG8aIy_D6xJRpAPk)

CCTelander
09-15-2019, 01:22 PM
And on, and on it goes. ANY victim disarmament (gun control) of ANY kind is totally unacceptable. The Gun Grabber in Chief pisses all over us again.

r3volution 3.0
09-15-2019, 01:26 PM
No one could have seen this coming...

Hillary would have been worse...

etc

Warlord
09-15-2019, 01:26 PM
I bet its red flags or something like that.

CCTelander
09-15-2019, 01:32 PM
No one could have seen this coming...

Hillary would have been worse...

etc


Ketchup.

Don't forget "He's the least of all possible goods," and "it won't actually pass and if it does the courts will strike it down."

Anything to excuse the Victim Disarmer in Chief and provide cover for him.

kcchiefs6465
09-15-2019, 01:42 PM
I bet its red flags or something like that.
Universal background checks and red flag provisions.

Some have seen this coming for a long time now.

CCTelander
09-15-2019, 01:48 PM
Universal background checks and red flag provisions.

Some have seen this coming for a long time now.


Just the latest round of winning.

ETA: Funny, winning in this case feels an aweful lot like getting ass raped.

Matt Collins
09-15-2019, 02:04 PM
No one could have seen this coming...

Hillary would have been worse...

etcNo, she wouldn't have.

Obama couldn't do anything on gun control because the right hated his guts like they hated her guts. The right likes Trump so they tend not to fight him as much. Psychology 101.... it's always your friends who hurt you more.

PursuePeace
09-15-2019, 02:29 PM
? Article title is inaccurate. "Gun control legislation.."



The Trump administration is expected to announce its proposal to curb gun violence as soon as next week.

Nothing about any sort of gun control legislation.
YET.

I'll wait to see what happens before casting judgement.
It may be bad. It may not be bad. Guess we'll find out.

juleswin
09-15-2019, 02:31 PM
No one could have seen this coming...

Hillary would have been worse...

etc

The deep state made him do it
He will be much better in his second term when he is no longer facing the threat of impeachment

Anti Federalist
09-15-2019, 03:13 PM
No, she wouldn't have.

Obama couldn't do anything on gun control because the right hated his guts like they hated her guts. The right likes Trump so they tend not to fight him as much. Psychology 101.... it's always your friends who hurt you more.

Yup, this...for the small gains that have been made I'd just as soon be on the obstruction defense.

eleganz
09-15-2019, 03:18 PM
It is actually pretty funny how you guys are freaking out over a proposal that has yet to be announced.

phill4paul
09-15-2019, 03:18 PM
Yup, this...for the small gains that have been made I'd just as soon be on the obstruction defense.

Well, you'll get it depending. Any meaningful gun control measure will cost him enough of his base to insure Dems win depending on who they float.

Dr.3D
09-15-2019, 03:24 PM
It is actually pretty funny how you guys are freaking out over a proposal that has yet to be announced.

Well, any proposal apart of 'hands off' is going to be bad.

r3volution 3.0
09-15-2019, 03:25 PM
No, she wouldn't have.

Obama couldn't do anything on gun control because the right hated his guts like they hated her guts. The right likes Trump so they tend not to fight him as much. Psychology 101.... it's always your friends who hurt you more.

That's a good point, same for spending and deficits.

kcchiefs6465
09-15-2019, 03:27 PM
It is actually pretty funny how you guys are freaking out over a proposal that has yet to be announced.
I remember when Matt Collins posted about the bumpstock ban.

Many saw it coming and rumors were floated.

Trump indicated it was coming too.

And your lot said it was just empty statements to appease gun grabbers.

And some of you said it is a stupid accessory anyways.

And one of you posted link after link to show you could still buy them.

And then you couldn’t.

And now having one (which millions of people do) can get you charged with possession of a machine gun.

Quit being a bootlicker.

kcchiefs6465
09-15-2019, 03:28 PM
As if Trump hasn’t spoken at length about universal background checks and red flag laws.

Anti Federalist
09-15-2019, 03:29 PM
Well, you'll get it depending. Any meaningful gun control measure will cost him enough of his base to insure Dems win depending on who they float.

That much is sure true.

The Orange One is on thin ice with gunners as it is, what with executive parts bans.

Let him sign on to major legislative gun control and he's toast.

Say hello to president Sanders.

Anti Federalist
09-15-2019, 03:31 PM
I remember when Matt Collins posted about the bumpstock ban.

Many saw it coming and rumors were floated.

Trump indicated it was coming too.

And your lot said it was just empty statements to appease gun grabbers.

And some of you said it is a stupid accessory anyways.

And one of you posted link after link to show you could still buy them.

And then you couldn’t.

And now having one (which millions of people do) can get you charged with possession of a machine gun.

Quit being a bootlicker.

I would have won my bet with dannno had I just stretched the timeline out another month.

Anti Federalist
09-15-2019, 03:31 PM
Well, any proposal apart of 'hands off' is going to be bad.

Shall not be infringed...

kcchiefs6465
09-15-2019, 03:35 PM
I would have won my bet with dannno had I just stretched the timeline out another month.
And I am sure you remember smart ass comment after smart ass comment because they were so in tune with their MAGA leader, or Q told them, or they mainlined DMT and Kermit the Toad showed them the way of 4D chess.

And then silence. Except maybe those completely missing the fucking point and arrogantly saying it was just a stupid accessory anyways.

Anti Federalist
09-15-2019, 03:35 PM
I wish I could foresee a president O'Rourke...but I can't.

But it would be nice.

We'd finally see where these fans really stand...let's light this candle for fuck's sake.

revgen
09-15-2019, 04:03 PM
It may have to do with administrative policies at Stoneman Douglas that are explained in this article.

http://www.texarkanagazette.com/news/features/story/2019/sep/15/parkland-father-searches-answers/795150/

Occam's Banana
09-15-2019, 04:16 PM
Anything to excuse the Victim Disarmer in Chief and provide cover for him.

https://i.imgur.com/6LyK6tj.png


It is actually pretty funny how you guys are freaking out over a proposal that has yet to be announced.

It is actually not at all funny how you guys are not "freaking out" over it.

(If enough people had started "freaking out" sooner, maybe we wouldn't be in this position ...)

Whatever this upcoming proposal is announced to be, you can bet your ass that it isn't any kind of roll-back or negation of already existing gun-rights restrictions. At best, it will be some wishy-washy wiffle that will please no one and which will only serve to encourage gun-grabbers and increase momentum for yet more gun-rights restrictions. And that's the absolute best we can reasonably hope for - and that's quite bad enough (so there's really no need to even get into how much worse it could turn out to be). So why shouldn't anyone who gives a damn about gun rights be "freaking out" over it (especially given Trump's previous gun-grabby shenanigans)?

But whatever it turns out to be, I won't be the least bit surprised if the Trump apologists try to excuse, downplay and/or dismiss it out of hand, just as you are preemptively doing here. "Pretty funny," my ass ... :rolleyes:

CCTelander
09-15-2019, 04:22 PM
? Article title is inaccurate. "Gun control legislation.."



Nothing about any sort of gun control legislation.
YET.

I'll wait to see what happens before casting judgement.
It may be bad. It may not be bad. Guess we'll find out.


It is actually pretty funny how you guys are freaking out over a proposal that has yet to be announced.


Oh bullshit. The time for "wait and see" is long, LONG past.Trump has already made his intentions quite clear through his previous actions and there's no credible reason to believe anything has changed in that regard.

He's banned an entire class of firearms accessories via executive fiat. This banned not only bump stocks but the HellFire device along with several similar devices. Now, thanks to Trump, a gun owner who bought a HellFire 15 or 20 years ago and tried it temporarily but decided he didn't like it so he took it off his rifle and tossed it in a box to be promptly forgotten about could now be facing TEN YEARS in prison as the owner of an unregistered machine gun. This is no small thing. ATF has a LONG, sordid history or sending innocent people just like that to federal prison on just such charges.

And don't think your rubber band work-around is safe either. "...ATF once issued a letter ruling saying a 14-inch shoestring was a machine gun because it could be used to convert a semi-automatic rifle into an automatic weapon. The letter was later rescinded." https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/when-a-shoe-string-is-a-machine-gun/

Trump has also explicitly expressed his support for red flag laws, universal background checks, raising the age to buy rifles to 21 and other victim disarmament proposals.

No, there's no rational reason to give Trump the benefit of the doubt on Victim disarmament.

Plus, if this shit is to be stopped, the earlier one can marshal one's forces to do so, the better one's chances are. The process should have been started when the bump stock situation was first being talked about if not before, but Trump apologists and ass kissers managed to blunt the edge of the opposition then. And now they're trying to do so again, it seems. Fuck that.

CCTelander
09-15-2019, 04:25 PM
https://i.imgur.com/6LyK6tj.png



It is actually not at all funny how you guys are not freaking out over it.

Whatever this upcoming proposal is announced to be, you can bet your ass that it isn't any kind of roll-back or negation of already existing gun-rights restrictions. At best, it will be some wishy-washy wiffle that will please no one and which will only serve to encourage gun-grabbers and increase momentum for yet more gun-rights restrictions. And that's the absolute best we can reasonably hope for - and that's quite bad enough (so there's really no need to even get into how much worse it could be). So why shouldn't anyone who gives a damn about gun rights be freaking out over it (especially given Trump's previous gun-grabby shenanigans)?

Whatever it turns out to be, I won't be the least bit surprised if the Trump apologists try to excuse, downplay and/or dismiss it out of hand, just as you are preemptively doing here. "Pretty funny," my ass ... :rolleyes:


I'M not laughing.

Anti Globalist
09-15-2019, 04:28 PM
Its almost as if hes is trying to lose his base. The man has been a supporter gun control for decades. Even wrote a book about wanting to ban assault weapons. Nobody should be surprised by this.

PursuePeace
09-15-2019, 04:31 PM
Oh bull$#@!. The time for "wait and see" is long, LONG past.Trump has already made his intentions quite clear through his previous actions and there's no credible reason to believe anything has changed in that regard.

He's banned an entire class of firearms accessories via executive fiat. This banned not only bump stocks but the HellFire device along with several similar devices. Now, thanks to Trump, a gun owner who bought a HellFire 15 or 20 years ago and tried it temporarily but decided he didn't like it so he took it off his rifle and tossed it in a box to be promptly forgotten about could now be facing TEN YEARS in prison as the owner of an unregistered machine gun. This is no small thing. ATF has a LONG, sordid history or sending innocent people just like that to federal prison on just such charges.

And don't think your rubber band work-around is safe either. "...ATF once issued a letter ruling saying a 14-inch shoestring was a machine gun because it could be used to convert a semi-automatic rifle into an automatic weapon. The letter was later rescinded." https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/when-a-shoe-string-is-a-machine-gun/

Trump has also explicitly expressed his support for red flag laws, universal background checks, raising the age to buy rifles to 21 and other victim disarmament proposals.

No, there's no rational reason to give Trump the benefit of the doubt on Victim disarmament.

Plus, if this $#@! is to be stopped, the earlier one can marshal one's forces to do so, the better one's chances are. The process should have been started when the bump stock situation was first being talked about if not before, but Trump apologists and ass kissers managed to blunt the edge of the opposition then. And now they're trying to do so again, it seems. $#@! that.

So what do you propose?

enhanced_deficit
09-15-2019, 04:33 PM
MAGA has been losing Right vote also (and not just Far Right), his shifts towards liberal progressive globalist agenda should help win big government/deficit spending supporting Dem/lib vote to compensate for loss of conservative vote. His top donor Sheldon Adelson, a widely respected globalist liberal democrat neocoservative, cared more about use of US guns against Iran/Syria etc to defend our closest ally in mideast; 2nd amendment protection was never on his agenda.





Related

(http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?519979-Conservative-leader-on-Trump-He-s-a-fraud-and-has-betrayed-us-twice-now&p=6597523&viewfull=1#post6597523)'Gun-grabber-in-chief': Conservatives turn on Trump as threat to confiscate guns prompts Second Amendment-related outrage (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?519979-Conservative-leader-on-Trump-He-s-a-fraud-and-has-betrayed-us-twice-now&p=6597523&viewfull=1#post6597523)
'He's a fraud and has betrayed us twice now' (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?519979-Conservative-leader-on-Trump-He-s-a-fraud-and-has-betrayed-us-twice-now&p=6597523&viewfull=1#post6597523)


https://pics.me.me/the-second-amendment-is-under-attack-the-constitution-must-be-31244671.png

Stratovarious
09-15-2019, 04:34 PM
More of that 3D chess , where Trump dismantles the 2nd amendment so
the liberals won't get credit for it.

:frog:

CCTelander
09-15-2019, 04:35 PM
So what do you propose?


Oh, I don't know. A FIRST step toward rehabilitation for Trump apologists might be to stop making excuses for his gun grabbing.

Just a thought.

Danke
09-15-2019, 04:35 PM
https://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/

CCTelander
09-15-2019, 04:35 PM
More of that 3D chess , where Trump dismantles the 2nd amendment so
the liberals won't get credit for it.

:frog:


And the 4th.

juleswin
09-15-2019, 04:37 PM
More of that 3D chess , where Trump dismantles the 2nd amendment so
the liberals won't get credit for it.

:frog:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Stratovarious again.

I just lost part of my lunch. You need to put some kind of a warning next time.

PursuePeace
09-15-2019, 04:55 PM
Oh, I don't know. A FIRST step toward rehabilitation for Trump apologists might be to stop making excuses for his gun grabbing.

Just a thought.

I'm not a Trump apologist.
I just don't have much of an opinion on something that hasn't happened yet.
Not sure what you would have people do, at this point.
Maybe you should stop assuming everyone is a "Trumpkin" or a "Trump apologist" or a "TrumpLover" or whatever idiotic names people put out there. It's just stupid and not productive at all. It just causes more division.

kahless
09-15-2019, 05:05 PM
Sounds like his cunt daughter is talking him into things again. If he told the truth in 2015 about his son-in-laws role and that she would be an advisor, he would have never won. He made a promise in 2015 they would not play a role and that deal breaker continually comes back to haunt his supporters.

White House considering phone app for background checks as part of gun control proposals
https://fox8.com/2019/09/15/white-house-considering-phone-app-for-background-checks-as-part-of-gun-control-proposals/

, Michael Williams, a deputy to the President who used to work for the NRA, has killed or delayed any progress on such a bill, despite support from Barr and the President's daughter and White House adviser Ivanka Trump.

"This proposal reveals one important fact from the White House: they recognize the problem of the private sale loophole that allows 20 percent of guns to be sold with no background check at all. ... We agree the private sale loophole must be fixed, but it should be fixed in a way that allows meaningful enforcement, not easy circumvention that endangers lives," said Kris Brown, president of Brady, a gun violence prevention advocacy group. "The right balance was struck by the House, which passed a background checks bill where sales by private sellers are completed by a federally licensed firearms dealer to confirm the person purchasing the gun is the same person who is picking up the gun and other assessments of risk before completion of the sale are done. If we want to save lives and meaningfully fix the private sale loophole, S. 42, now 200 days and counting on Mitch McConnell's desk is the way to do it."

Gun rights and privacy advocates have already voiced concerns about an app like the one proposed, saying it could become a de-facto registry and worry about how secure the information would be.

Here are some of the options being proposed in discussions, in addition to measures Trump and his aides have floated publicly:

Allowing minors' records to be included in background check databases
Alerting local authorities when someone fails a background check
Applying bigger penalties for straw purchases when someone buys a gun for someone else
Instituting a ban on gun purchases for people on terror watch lists
Increasing the penalty for people who lie on background check forms
Helping states implement "red flag" laws, which would remove weapons from people deemed at risk
Adding additional government records to an existing background check database
Improving mental health services
Expediting the death penalty for convicted mass shooters

TheTexan
09-15-2019, 05:19 PM
I'm not a Trump apologist.
I just don't have much of an opinion on something that hasn't happened yet.
Not sure what you would have people do, at this point.
Maybe you should stop assuming everyone is a "Trumpkin" or a "Trump apologist" or a "TrumpLover" or whatever idiotic names people put out there. It's just stupid and not productive at all. It just causes more division.

Yes, let's wait until after the bill passes to get upset. Seems logical :up:

A Son of Liberty
09-15-2019, 05:28 PM
Guys, can we PLEASE wait til Swordsmyth comments in this thread before we know what we should think?

Kthxbai

CCTelander
09-15-2019, 05:30 PM
Guys, can we PLEASE wait til Swordsmyth comments in this thread before we know what we should think?

Kthxbai


ROTFL!!!

"You must spread some Reputation around..."

UWDude
09-15-2019, 05:32 PM
A ha! They are whipped up into a frenzy.

Finally, they can smell that hater win.... ....d.

CCTelander
09-15-2019, 05:38 PM
A ha! They are whipped up into a frenzy.

Finally, they can smell that hater win.... ....d.


What the fuck are you on about?

Maybe you should sit this one out and let the rational adults handle it.

UWDude
09-15-2019, 05:39 PM
It is actually pretty funny how you guys are freaking out over a proposal that has yet to be announced.

Oh, you must be new.

A few weeks ago there was a raft of "trump Considering" headlines, and they were running around like it was the end of the world.

UWDude
09-15-2019, 05:40 PM
What the $#@! are you on about?

Maybe you should sit this one out and let the rational adults handle it.

SOMETHING IS GONNA HAPPEN GUYZ AND ITZ GONNA BE BAD!

TOLD YOU!

HA HA HA!

Stratovarious
09-15-2019, 05:42 PM
And the 4th.

I know, that was hovering all around up there when I posted, but you know how I tend to go off
on tangents , on and on and on........

:frog:

CCTelander
09-15-2019, 05:46 PM
SOMETHING IS GONNA HAPPEN GUYZ AND ITZ GONNA BE BAD!

TOLD YOU!

HA HA HA!


Oh, I see. Off your meds again, eh? Carry on.

UWDude
09-15-2019, 05:48 PM
Oh, I see. Off your meds again, eh? Carry on.

I think I am quite clear about my hatred for meds, and for the weak, victim-minds who claim to need them to survive.
Zombies.

How's your mother?

CCTelander
09-15-2019, 05:55 PM
I think I am quite clear about my hatred for meds, and for the weak, victim-minds who claim to need them to survive.
Zombies.

How's your mother?


Actually, my mother died a year ago last march. There's a thread on here all about it. You must have missed that one.

UWDude
09-15-2019, 05:58 PM
Actually, my mother died a year ago last march. There's a thread on here all about it. You must have missed that one.

I missed it.
I only read US Political News and World News.
Still, I don't actually care.

Hey, did you think it is ok for you to call me crazy, but for me not to insult you?

CCTelander
09-15-2019, 06:12 PM
I missed it.
I only read US Political News and World News.
Still, I don't actually care.

Hey, did you think it is ok for you to call me crazy, but for me not to insult you?


Ah, displaying precisely the level of class and good manners I've come to expect from you. Thank you for not disappointing.

As far as insults go, your initial offering in this thread, portraying those of us who are concerned over current trends towards victim disarmament as Chicken Littles and flat out calling us "hater[s]" couldn't possibly have been meant as an insult now, could it? What goes around comes around Scooter.

UWDude
09-15-2019, 06:13 PM
Ah, displaying precisely the level of class and good manners I've come to expect from you. Thank you for not disappointing.

As far as insults go, your initial offering in this thread, portraying those of us who are concerned over current trends towards victim disarmament and flat out calling us "hater[s]" couldn't possibly have been meant as an insult now, could it. What goes around comes around scooter.

So, is it you that is still on your meds, like a good boy?

BTW, I don't owe you anything, including a condolences.
I don't know you, I don't care about you. You're just some dude on the internet flapping his jaw.

CCTelander
09-15-2019, 06:15 PM
So, is it you that is still on your meds, like a good boy?

BTW, I don't owe you anything, including a condolences.
I don't know you, I don't care about you. You're just some dude on the internet flapping his jaw.


Classy to the end. You're a credit to humanity.

UWDude
09-15-2019, 06:18 PM
Classy to the end. You're a credit to humanity.

It's good your meds are keeping you so stable.
Imagine the loser little troll you would be off them.

Anti Federalist
09-15-2019, 06:19 PM
I'm not a Trump apologist.
I just don't have much of an opinion on something that hasn't happened yet.
Not sure what you would have people do, at this point.
Maybe you should stop assuming everyone is a "Trumpkin" or a "Trump apologist" or a "TrumpLover" or whatever idiotic names people put out there. It's just stupid and not productive at all. It just causes more division.

That's a fair and reasonable response.

I think it is important to get out in front of this "trial balloon" and make it loudly clear that even to consider victim disarmament is failure.

This is frustrating of course...there are supposedly 100 million of "us", meaning gun/liberty folks of all stripes.

How is it that the Bolsheviks can put a million screaming communists and Jacobins in the streets overnight, and we can't get one tenth of that to show up and raise hell?

UWDude
09-15-2019, 06:20 PM
That's a fair and reasonable response.

I think it is important to get out in front of this "trial balloon" and make it loudly clear that even to consider victim disarmament is failure.

This is frustrating of course...there are supposedly 100 million of "us", meaning gun/liberty folks or all stripes.

How is that the Bolsheviks can put a million screaming communists in the streets overnight, and we can't get one tenth of that to show up and raise hell?

Because they are professional victims and bureaucrats. Government is their very livelihood and luxury.

Stratovarious
09-15-2019, 06:21 PM
So, is it you that is still on your meds, like a good boy?

BTW, I don't owe you anything, including a condolences.
I don't know you, I don't care about you...


I'm just some dude on the internet flapping his jaw


:frog:

PursuePeace
09-15-2019, 06:21 PM
That's a fair and reasonable response.

I think it is important to get out in front of this "trial balloon" and make it loudly clear that even to consider victim disarmament is failure.

This is frustrating of course...there are supposedly 100 million of "us", meaning gun/liberty folks of all stripes.

How is it that the Bolsheviks can put a million screaming communists and Jacobins in the streets overnight, and we can't get one tenth of that to show up and raise hell?

To the bold: That is extremely important. Be vocal. You're right.

As to the rest of your post, couldn't possibly agree more.

Anti Federalist
09-15-2019, 06:22 PM
So, is it you that is still on your meds, like a good boy?

BTW, I don't owe you anything, including a condolences.
I don't know you, I don't care about you. You're just some dude on the internet flapping his jaw.

Chris T. is a class act and long term member that I have personally conversed with numerous times.

You got a political issue, state it.

Otherwise pipe down.

Anti Federalist
09-15-2019, 06:24 PM
Because they are professional victims and bureaucrats. Government is their very livelihood and luxury.

Well, sure, that's part of it, but even as massive as government is now, it ain't a 100 million strong.

I suppose we've crossed the Rubicon though, since now over half of all households are on some form of direct government handouts.

UWDude
09-15-2019, 06:24 PM
Chris T. is a class act and long term member that I have personally conversed with numerous times.

You got a political issue, state it.

Otherwise pipe down.

I don't know his political issues.
Fact of the matter is I glaze over every post I have ever read of his.
There is nothing memorable about him.

I know he hates Trump, and I see him in "trump considering" threads prematurely ejaculating the champagne of victory all over the places, in an orgasm of I told you so's about things that generally do not happen, or are not really a big deal.

Anti Federalist
09-15-2019, 06:29 PM
I don't know his political issues.
Fact of the matter is I glaze over every post I have ever read of his.
There is nothing memorable about him.

I know he hates Trump, and I see him in "trump considering" threads prematurely ejaculating the champagne of victory all over the places, in an orgasm of I told you so's about things that generally do not happen, or are not really a big deal.

A lot people do.

A lot of people support him without question.

He's a galvanizing figure no doubt.

I have a foot in each camp...on this issue, his record and his public statements are pretty bad.

That bumpstock ban is a fucking zombie that is going to start biting heads off here shortly...wait and see.

CCTelander
09-15-2019, 06:30 PM
Chris T. is a class act and long term member that I have personally conversed with numerous times.

You got a political issue, state it.

Otherwise pipe down.


Thanks, brother. Inappreciate your having my back. I've got yours if you ever need it.

UWDude
09-15-2019, 06:33 PM
A lot people do.

A lot of people support him without question.

He's a galvanizing figure no doubt.

I have a foot in each camp...on this issue, his record and his public statements are pretty bad.

That bumpstock ban is a $#@!ing zombie that is going to start biting heads off here shortly...wait and see.

But here is the deal.
If Trump outlawed partial birth abortion, I would not start calling Trump a right wing Christian wing nut zealot because he banned partial birth abortion...
...Though I am FOR partial birth abortion. I believe in slippery slope fallacy as well. To make it illegal gives the in utero rights before its first breath, and I am 100% against that.

But the whole "bump stock ban" ain't much of a thing, I really don't care about it. To me it's like partial birth abortion. Both are rare, and usually not necessary.

SO, yeah, if Trump does red flag laws, I will be very alarmed. What I expect are the politicians way out "A list of laws that strengthen background checks". It gets rolled over in congress a bit like the rumble in a lower gut and then escapes harmlessly as a fart. That's what I expect.

Kind of like 90% of the alarmist headlines that have been screamed across this board for the past 3 years. Most of them have turned out to be harmless farts, while people like CCTelander has been screaming that we are about to get buried in diarrhea.

And at the core of it, is a big desire to convince me trump is evil.
If I ever decide Trump is evil, it will have nothing to do with the constant gnashing of teeth of the haters here about everything Trump might do or is considering or Tweets about even.

Anti Federalist
09-15-2019, 06:41 PM
But the whole "bump stock ban" ain't much of a thing, I really don't care about it. To me it's like partial birth abortion. Both are rare, and usually not necessary.

See, the problem is not who cares about a bump stock, what it is or how it works.

The precedent has now been set that, by Executive Action, the president can direct an un-elected and un-accountable regulatory bureaucracy to issue a fatwa that bans a firearm part (or anything else for that matter).

President Sanders will come along and use that newly found "power" to "direct" ATF to declare that any magazine over 5 rounds is a "machine gun" part, for example.

This will happen, and surely you can see the problem here.

UWDude
09-15-2019, 06:42 PM
See, the problem is not who cares about a bump stock, what it is or how it works.

The precedent has now been set that, by Executive Action, the president can direct an un-elected and un-accountable regulatory bureaucracy to issue a fatwa that bans a firearm part (or anything else for that matter).

President Sanders will come along and use that newly found "power" to "direct" ATF to declare that any magazine over 5 rounds is a "machine gun" part, for example.

This will happen, and surely you can see the problem here.

Yes, and making partial birth abortion illegal will end all abortions.

I simply do not believe that.

Anti Federalist
09-15-2019, 06:45 PM
Thanks, brother. Inappreciate your having my back. I've got yours if you ever need it.

No problem at all...I just wanted to weigh in, I thought the comment was too personal and combative, which can happen to all of us, I'm just as guilty.

The fact is though, there are not enough of "us" to be at each other's throats.

Anti Federalist
09-15-2019, 06:45 PM
Yes, and making partial birth abortion illegal will end all abortions.

I simply do not believe that.

If it was done through, say FDA, I could see that happening.

PursuePeace
09-15-2019, 07:02 PM
The fact is though, there are not enough of "us" to be at each other's throats.

exactly.

!!

Swordsmyth
09-15-2019, 07:49 PM
Make all the noise you want in opposition to gun control, I do.
But commenting on what Trump might do before he does it and condemning him for what you imagine he might do is just dumb.
I'll comment when I know what he says.

CCTelander
09-15-2019, 08:34 PM
Make all the noise you want in opposition to gun control, I do.
But commenting on what Trump might do before he does it and condemning him for what you imagine he might do is just dumb.
I'll comment when I know what he says.


For your continued edification:


Oh bullshit. The time for "wait and see" is long, LONG past.Trump has already made his intentions quite clear through his previous actions and there's no credible reason to believe anything has changed in that regard.

He's banned an entire class of firearms accessories via executive fiat. This banned not only bump stocks but the HellFire device along with several similar devices. Now, thanks to Trump, a gun owner who bought a HellFire 15 or 20 years ago and tried it temporarily but decided he didn't like it so he took it off his rifle and tossed it in a box to be promptly forgotten about could now be facing TEN YEARS in prison as the owner of an unregistered machine gun. This is no small thing. ATF has a LONG, sordid history or sending innocent people just like that to federal prison on just such charges.

And don't think your rubber band work-around is safe either. "...ATF once issued a letter ruling saying a 14-inch shoestring was a machine gun because it could be used to convert a semi-automatic rifle into an automatic weapon. The letter was later rescinded." https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/when-a-shoe-string-is-a-machine-gun/

Trump has also explicitly expressed his support for red flag laws, universal background checks, raising the age to buy rifles to 21 and other victim disarmament proposals.

No, there's no rational reason to give Trump the benefit of the doubt on Victim disarmament.

Plus, if this shit is to be stopped, the earlier one can marshal one's forces to do so, the better one's chances are. The process should have been started when the bump stock situation was first being talked about if not before, but Trump apologists and ass kissers managed to blunt the edge of the opposition then. And now they're trying to do so again, it seems. Fuck that.

Then there's the ending of almost 25 year's worth of forward momentum and handing thevinitiative over to the gun grabbers that you yourself have acknowledged. There's more than enough reason to take this very seriously provided by Trump himself.

kahless
09-15-2019, 09:18 PM
Make all the noise you want in opposition to gun control, I do.
But commenting on what Trump might do before he does it and condemning him for what you imagine he might do is just dumb.
I'll comment when I know what he says.

I disagree. His base did a lets wait and see before and we ended up with the bump stock ban. Without any push back now Trump will keep moving further to left on gun control believing his base of support is still with him in his pathetic quest for approval from his opposition through gun control legislation.

Swordsmyth
09-15-2019, 09:20 PM
I disagree. His base did a lets wait and see before and we ended up with the bump stock ban. Without any push back now Trump will keep moving further to left on gun control believing his base of support is still with him in his pathetic quest for approval from his opposition through gun control legislation.
I said to push against gun control, I am not saying we should stay quiet.
I just am not going to comment or rush to judgement on what Trump says before he says it.

enhanced_deficit
09-15-2019, 09:23 PM
I said to push against gun control, I am not saying we should stay quiet.
I just am not going to comment or rush to judgement on what Trump says before he says it.


Even if he says it, should wait for his actions... although some would argue that a statement is an action too.


Since he frequently contradicts himself his statements can't be trusted at all, you have to watch his actions to even guess about his positions or plans.

kahless
09-15-2019, 09:24 PM
Well if he does every effort should be made to ensure he loses since if he wins we will continue to slowly lose our rights while he virtue signals to his enemies. If he loses and we get the worst of the Dems on guns and they are not blocked perhaps some states will be more willing to break away from the federal government. At least there might be a choice, free states or regions as opposed to states under control of the fascist DNC.

Swordsmyth
09-15-2019, 09:25 PM
Even if he says it, should wait for his actions... although some would argue that a statement is an action too.
In this case his statements affect the momentum of the gun rights vs. gun control fight and the overton window, the statement is an action that should be attacked if it is bad.

Origanalist
09-15-2019, 09:30 PM
I don't know his political issues.
Fact of the matter is I glaze over every post I have ever read of his.
There is nothing memorable about him.

I know he hates Trump, and I see him in "trump considering" threads prematurely ejaculating the champagne of victory all over the places, in an orgasm of I told you so's about things that generally do not happen, or are not really a big deal.

And I remember you specifically claiming he might be the next messiah.

kahless
09-15-2019, 09:31 PM
Even if he says it, should wait for his actions... although some would argue that a statement is an action too.

Trump has repeatedly directly attacked 2A and in the process is moving the overton window on gun control in the wrong direction. His words will be used by future Democrat and Republican Presidents to pass gun control legislation. Even if he does nothing it is still too late since his language has already softened everyone up for it to be passed at some future date like when the next lunatic pops off.

CCTelander
09-15-2019, 09:33 PM
And I remember you specifically claiming he might be the next messiah.


Thanks for the back up. I turned the job down. Too much trouble.

Origanalist
09-15-2019, 09:34 PM
Thanks for the back up. I turned the job down. Too much trouble.

Not you, Trump. :D

shakey1
09-15-2019, 09:39 PM
https://www.libertyheadlines.com/wp-content/uploads/trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second-e1519882524664.png

https://pics.onsizzle.com/shut-theruck-up-donnie-youre-out-of-your-element-uickmeme-22188462.png

enhanced_deficit
09-15-2019, 09:40 PM
Sounds like his $#@! daughter is talking him into things again. If he told the truth in 2015 about his son-in-laws role and that she would be an advisor, he would have never won. He made a promise in 2015 they would not play a role and that deal breaker continually comes back to haunt his supporters.

White House considering phone app for background checks as part of gun control proposals
https://fox8.com/2019/09/15/white-house-considering-phone-app-for-background-checks-as-part-of-gun-control-proposals/

MAGA supporters might object to use of such language about a sitting First Daughter and Senior White House advisor. And to be fair, MAGA wanted to stop nepotism and them to move back to NYC:

Donald Trump Wants Ivanka and Jared Kushner to Move Back Home to NYC
By Beatrice Dupuy On 11/22/17
The latest report follows an earlier story in Politico (https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/29/jared-ivanka-trump-white-house-role-john-kelly-243321) that Trump has mentioned his concerns in front of other staffers, telling his daughter and White House adviser, “Baby, you’re getting killed, this is a bad deal.”
Kushner’s influence in the White House appears to be waning, signaling that the couple could soon be leaving town. Vanity Fair (https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/11/jared-kushner-horizons-are-collapsing-within-the-west-wing) reported that chief of staff John Kelly has “clipped his wings.”


Critics had called it fakenews but that doesn't go with the straight forward track record of MAGA leadership.
But then things took some strange turns:


Ivanka Trump involved in congressional outreach on gun reform
August 13, 2019 / 10:04 AM / CBS News
President Trump's daughter and senior aide Ivanka Trump is involved in the White House's outreach to members of Congress, a White House official told CBS News. Her outreach, the official said, is a part of the White House office of legislative affairs' efforts to engage members of Congress in talks about gun policy.
Ivanka Trump "has trusted relationships on both sides of the aisle and she is working in concert with the White House policy and legislative teams," a White House official said. Axios first reported Ivanka Trump's involvement.
The president's elder daughter was the first in the Trump family to declare the shootings in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio, acts of "terror." And she has voiced support for "red flag" laws (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-are-red-flag-laws-and-which-states-have-implemented-them/), which would allow law enforcement to take weapons from Americans deemed to be a risk to themselves or others.


Trump says Ivanka would be hard to beat for president (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?533460-Trump-says-Ivanka-would-be-hard-to-beat-for-president&)
President pressured staff to grant security clearance to Ivanka Trump
By Pamela Brown and Kaitlan Collins, CNN
Wed March 6, 2019
https://peopledotcom.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/gettyimages-958498918.jpg

CCTelander
09-15-2019, 09:43 PM
Not you, Trump. :D


Dude said something similar about me once too, sarcastically, of course.

CCTelander
09-15-2019, 09:43 PM
Dupe

kcchiefs6465
09-15-2019, 10:35 PM
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kcchiefs6465
09-15-2019, 10:36 PM
1172857650478030848

1172863668012441600

kcchiefs6465
09-15-2019, 10:39 PM
1173437608535449605

kcchiefs6465
09-15-2019, 10:40 PM
1173301443140435968

kcchiefs6465
09-15-2019, 10:41 PM
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kcchiefs6465
09-15-2019, 10:42 PM
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kcchiefs6465
09-15-2019, 10:43 PM
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kcchiefs6465
09-15-2019, 10:43 PM
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kcchiefs6465
09-15-2019, 10:43 PM
1173026799506382848 UWDude

kcchiefs6465
09-15-2019, 10:48 PM
1172646990712201216

kcchiefs6465
09-15-2019, 10:49 PM
1172135112563146756

Ender
09-15-2019, 11:41 PM
Chris T. is a class act and long term member that I have personally conversed with numerous times.

You got a political issue, state it.

Otherwise pipe down.

Yep- and + rep.

CCTelander
09-15-2019, 11:41 PM
In this case his statements affect the momentum of the gun rights vs. gun control fight and the overton window, the statement is an action that should be attacked if it is bad.


"IF it is bad"? There is no possible statement that Trump is even remotely likely to make that is anything but bad. But you know that already.

CCTelander
09-15-2019, 11:41 PM
Yep- and + rep.


Thanks, brother.

A Son of Liberty
09-16-2019, 09:22 AM
So, is it you that is still on your meds, like a good boy?

BTW, I don't owe you anything, including a condolences.
I don't know you, I don't care about you. You're just some dude on the internet flapping his jaw.

Pardon me, Chris, if I get out of line here...

I don't think CCTelander would give one healthy, satisfying sht if you offer him condolences, or not. Yet you seem so desperate to garner a reaction from him. I find that interesting.

I also find it interesting that when your bullsht was called out, you scurried away like the coward you are.

The fact is, you're a busch-league thinker who probably drinks too much and doesn't have anything else better to do but prowl these forums to try to convince anonymous users that you've figured everything out, giving meaning to your piddly, empty life.

Honestly, I sympathize with you.

Now before you concoct your response, understand that NO ONE gives a F**K about what you're going to say.

No one.

You're boring, predictable, and pathetic.

So go f**k yourself. It's probably the only thing you're actually good at.

And the next time you feel compelled to anonymously insult the death of someone's loved one, think about that... think about how fcking meaningless and worthless your own life is...

UWDude
09-16-2019, 10:03 AM
Pardon me, Chris, if I get out of line here...

I don't think CCTelander would give one healthy, satisfying sht if you offer him condolences, or not. Yet you seem so desperate to garner a reaction from him. I find that interesting.

I also find it interesting that when your bullsht was called out, you scurried away like the coward you are.

The fact is, you're a busch-league thinker who probably drinks too much and doesn't have anything else better to do but prowl these forums to try to convince anonymous users that you've figured everything out, giving meaning to your piddly, empty life.

Honestly, I sympathize with you.

Now before you concoct your response, understand that NO ONE gives a F**K about what you're going to say.

No one.

You're boring, predictable, and pathetic.

So go f**k yourself. It's probably the only thing you're actually good at.

And the next time you feel compelled to anonymously insult the death of someone's loved one, think about that... think about how fcking meaningless and worthless your own life is...


I knew nothing of his mothers death.
As I said, I only read US news and World news.

And I didn't "scurry away"

Fact of the matter is, as I have said multiple times before, I only write what I am compelled to write, and I do not know why I write it.

When I started writing out "how is your mother", I paused, and started to un-write mother, and put in "brother", but then I knew I had to write mother, because that is what I was guided to write first by emotion.. ...my edits are always thought, and therefore, not coming from genuine third eye intuition.

Why? I don't know. I had a feeling she was dead, (I had no idea it was fairly recent, I know nothing about CCT, at all) and that CCT would have a moment of some kind of victory. But I do not question what I am told to write. So I wrote it. Same as when I wrote about your liver.

I don't care that she is dead. I was actually more curious about her medication situation. Especially anti depressants. Same with CCTelander. Something tells me he is on meds or has been on meds. I asked about his mother because my intuition is she is/was on meds.

It is about the third eye. It is about ascension.

You can believe me or disbelieve me. I really don't care.

BTW, you are still mirroring with me. I hardly drink at all, and have never been anywhere near alcoholic. How's your liver?

My life is just fine. I own everything I do.

UWDude
09-16-2019, 10:10 AM
And I remember you specifically claiming he might be the next messiah.

He might be.



The Mahdi, will be a Shiite muslim. He will unite the Shiite world with most of the Sunni world, especially in Central and East Asia, the way it always has been done... battleaxing. Blood. By the way, I base this not on prophecy, I base it on a deep understanding of how self-fulfilling prophecy works, and in the three major monotheistic end times there is a messiah, or machdi, or christ. As religion slowly, (and i mean over centuries now, religion has started to decrease as a force of human nature predictability) slowly fades as an institution of power, it will have death throes, and wars. Islam, is the fastest growing religion in the world. It is like three socio-psychological gods have been formed, and they rule the way nations conduct business, and now, Allah is rising, along with a demi-god, KGB Putin, but who is the messiah? Looking at practicing populations as a counter of faith power(R), who cares? The answer is underwhelming, and the amount of firepower they can muster is as well. Especially when they realize almost all of their nuclear ballistic missiles are not going to hit their targets. I mean, when ISIS takes mecca, (and it shall, believe me), can Jerusalem nuke Mecca?


When I wrote that, I was talking of the Jew's messiah, and mocking their world power, and the ability to win with a messiah.
I now see how powerful one man can be. The Jewish Messiah may very well be Trump.

Anti Federalist
09-16-2019, 10:10 AM
The Associated Press noted that Second Amendment Foundation founder Alan Gottlieb welcomed O’Rourke’s push, simply for the damage that it does to the gun control movement. Gottlieb said, “This is what their goal is. We’ve always said it, now they’re saying it. Now they’ve said it and we’re going to make them eat it.”

Just dropped another donation at https://gunowners.org/support/

CCTelander
09-16-2019, 10:33 AM
Pardon me, Chris, if I get out of line here...

I don't think CCTelander would give one healthy, satisfying sht if you offer him condolences, or not. Yet you seem so desperate to garner a reaction from him. I find that interesting.

I also find it interesting that when your bullsht was called out, you scurried away like the coward you are.

The fact is, you're a busch-league thinker who probably drinks too much and doesn't have anything else better to do but prowl these forums to try to convince anonymous users that you've figured everything out, giving meaning to your piddly, empty life.

Honestly, I sympathize with you.

Now before you concoct your response, understand that NO ONE gives a F**K about what you're going to say.

No one.

You're boring, predictable, and pathetic.

So go f**k yourself. It's probably the only thing you're actually good at.

And the next time you feel compelled to anonymously insult the death of someone's loved one, think about that... think about how fcking meaningless and worthless your own life is...


You're right. Ordinarily I don't give even the semblance of a fuck what the Dude thinks or has to say. Usually I just ignore his rants since at my age I don't have unlimited time and I certainly haven't any to waste on young, arrogant pricks who haven't lived long enough or experienced enough to learn that no they do not, in fact, have all the answers. Usually he just pops up to try and downplay the danger of some bad thing Trump has done or is considering anyway, so just ignoring him deprives his efforts of strength.

In this case, however, he's attempting to downplay the dangers of victim disarmament in general and red flag laws in particular since the latter are virtually guaranteed to be part of what Trump proposes this week based upon his statements and actions over the last year or so. That's very dangerous.

The first red flag law was enacted in Connecticut back in 1999. From there it took the gun grabbers over 18 years, until 2017, to manage to weasle them into enactment in 4 more states. Then Trump opened his idiot mouth in support of them (Take the guns first, due process second) and banned bump stocks. NRA quickly followed by publicly endorsing red flag laws. In a little iver a year 12 more states and DC enacted them.

If this continues, the 2nd, 4th and 5th Amendments are pretty much dead letters. No more presumption of in innocence. No more due process. The rights to be confronted by your accuser, to present eviddnce on your own behalf, to be secure in your person,?papers and things BEFORE the stae can act against you or punish you? All gone. The repudiation of all of these concepts and more would be codified into law. Basically, the state will have given itself carte blanche to do whatever they like with you on a whim, you having no real recourse until well after the fact.

All the positive progress of the last 25 years would be basically nullified in one fell swoop. After all, how much use is constitutional carry ifvthe state can come in and confiscate ALL your guns by merely asserting that you're a danger to yourself or others. No evidence. No proof. Just an assertion.

This shit IS DANGEROUS.

A Son of Liberty
09-16-2019, 10:38 AM
I knew nothing of his mothers death.
As I said, I only read US news and World news.

And I didn't "scurry away"

Fact of the matter is, as I have said multiple times before, I only write what I am compelled to write, and I do not know why I write it.

When I started writing out "how is your mother", I paused, and started to un-write mother, and put in "brother", but then I knew I had to write mother, because that is what I was guided to write first by emotion.. ...my edits are always thought, and therefore, not coming from genuine third eye intuition.

Why? I don't know. I had a feeling she was dead, (I had no idea it was fairly recent, I know nothing about CCT, at all) and that CCT would have a moment of some kind of victory. But I do not question what I am told to write. So I wrote it. Same as when I wrote about your liver.

I don't care that she is dead. I was actually more curious about her medication situation. Especially anti depressants. Same with CCTelander. Something tells me he is on meds or has been on meds. I asked about his mother because my intuition is she is/was on meds.

It is about the third eye. It is about ascension.

You can believe me or disbelieve me. I really don't care.

BTW, you are still mirroring with me. I hardly drink at all, and have never been anywhere near alcoholic. How's your liver?

My life is just fine. I own everything I do.

Yeah, I don't care. About any of that. I only posted what I did to confront you, because I think what you said was dick-ish. I don't give a sht about you either. That's how I feel about people who represent themselves the way you do. And I don't care why you post what you post. I don't care how you think your mind works. I don't give a fck about your liver. Also, I have no expectation that you would give a sht about me, or mine. I just like Chris and didn't think he deserved to be treated that way. That's how humans work. So - again - go fck yourself. You can probably respect that.

UWDude
09-16-2019, 10:40 AM
Yeah, I don't care. About any of that. I only posted what I did to confront you, because I think what you said was dick-ish. I don't give a sht about you either. That's how I feel about people who represent themselves the way you do. And I don't care why you post what you post. I don't care how you think your mind works. I don't give a fck about your liver. Also, I have no expectation that you would give a sht about me, or mine. I just like Chris and didn't think he deserved to be treated that way. That's how humans work. So - again - go fck yourself. You can probably respect that.

"Go fuck yourself"

That's what they always say.

Upon a second reading, your are correct. I can respect that rant.

A Son of Liberty
09-16-2019, 10:44 AM
You're right. Ordinarily I don't give even the semblance of a $#@! what the Dude thinks or has to say. Usually I just ignore his rants since at my age I don't have unlimited time and I certainly haven't any to waste on young, arrogant pricks who haven't lived long enough or experienced enough to learn that no they do not, in fact, have all the answers. Usually he just pops up to try and downplay the danger of some bad thing Trump has done or is considering anyway, so just ignoring him deprives his efforts of strength.

In this case, however, he's attempting to downplay the dangers of victim disarmament in general and red flag laws in particular since the latter are virtually guaranteed to be part of what Trump proposes this week based upon his statements and actions over the last year or so. That's very dangerous.

The first red flag law was enacted in Connecticut back in 1999. From there it took the gun grabbers over 18 years, until 2017, to manage to weasle them into enactment in 4 more states. Then Trump opened his idiot mouth in support of them (Take the guns first, due process second) and banned bump stocks. NRA quickly followed by publicly endorsing red flag laws. In a little iver a year 12 more states and DC enacted them.

If this continues, the 2nd, 4th and 5th Amendments are pretty much dead letters. No more presumption of in innocence. No more due process. The rights to be confronted by your accuser, to present eviddnce on your own behalf, to be secure in your person,?papers and things BEFORE the stae can act against you or punish you? All gone. The repudiation of all of these concepts and more would be codified into law. Basically, the state will have given itself carte blanche to do whatever they like with you on a whim, you having no real recourse until well after the fact.

All the positive progress of the last 25 years would be basically nullified in one fell swoop. After all, how much use is constitutional carry ifvthe state can come in and confiscate ALL your guns by merely asserting that you're a danger to yourself or others. No evidence. No proof. Just an assertion.

This $#@! IS DANGEROUS.

UWDude, this is exactly why I think Chris is a valuable contributor, and I appreciate his posts here - he actually has something insightful to contribute, backed with obvious knowledge of the subject matter. He doesn't just condescendingly spout off unsubstantiated bullsht. That's what you do - you condescendingly spout of unsubstantiated bullsht, then act like everyone else is an idiot for not adopting your unsubstantiated bullsht. Thinking people require more than unsubstantiated bullsht before they're willing to attach their reputation to it. Maybe someday you'll get that.

A Son of Liberty
09-16-2019, 10:45 AM
"Go $#@! yourself"

That's what they always say.

Ooh. Ya got me there.

https://compote.slate.com/images/be86a141-95de-40ef-9352-3514aef96fa9.jpg

Also: go fck yourself

UWDude
09-16-2019, 10:56 AM
UWDude, this is exactly why I think Chris is a valuable contributor, and I appreciate his posts here - he actually has something insightful to contribute, backed with obvious knowledge of the subject matter. He doesn't just condescendingly spout off unsubstantiated bullsht. That's what you do - you condescendingly spout of unsubstantiated bullsht, then act like everyone else is an idiot for not adopting your unsubstantiated bullsht. Thinking people require more than unsubstantiated bullsht before they're willing to attach their reputation to it. Maybe someday you'll get that.

You have no idea why I write what I write. I keep my intentions to myself.

So right now, you are flinging bullshit, trying to pin me down, as some person who does things for reasons you could only imagine.

A Son of Liberty
09-16-2019, 11:03 AM
You have no idea why I write what I write. I keep my intentions to myself.

Yeah, I know. In fact, I specifically said that I do not care why you write what you write:
That's how I feel about people who represent themselves the way you do. And I don't care why you post what you post. I don't care how you think your mind works.


So right now, you are flinging bull$#@!, trying to pin me down, as some person who does things for reasons you could only imagine.

Yeah, I'm flinging bullsht, because I think you're a dck, and I didn't care for what you said, and because the moderators seem to allow you to operate here without discipline so someone should say something. That's kind of exactly how you operate here. So I'm wondering why you seem to have a problem with what I'm saying?

UWDude
09-16-2019, 11:13 AM
So I'm wondering why you seem to have a problem with what I'm saying?

I don't, with some of it:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?539231-Trump-to-announce-gun-control-this-week&p=6861583&viewfull=1#post6861583

However, people tend to think that I am chastising them. I am only making observations about how they are acting, and I reflect it back at them, because I know hatred is born of hatred of self.

A Son of Liberty
09-16-2019, 11:19 AM
I don't, with some of it:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?539231-Trump-to-announce-gun-control-this-week&p=6861583&viewfull=1#post6861583

However, people tend to think that I am chastising them. I am only making observations about how they are acting, and I reflect it back at them, because I know hatred is born of hatred of self.

Oh do you think I hate you? I don't hate you. I'm just pointing out for all to see that you've handled yourself inappropriately with regard to another member here.

And be honest - you're not reflecting anything back at anyone - you're the ignorant, insincere douche nozzle. You're not fooling anyone with this bullsht, least of all yourself.

UWDude
09-16-2019, 11:21 AM
Oh do you think I hate you? I don't hate you.

Wasn't talking about you.

PursuePeace
09-16-2019, 11:55 AM
*clears throat*
so uh, how 'bout them 49'ers?*

j/k.
One thing that I got out of this back and forth is a good article that CCTelander posted, which apart from the fantastic message, it also gave me the phrase "Victim Disarmament" to use as opposed to "gun control". I will never use the term "gun control" ever again.

* - not a sports watcher, I have no idea if they're even still a team.

spudea
09-16-2019, 12:56 PM
stop making excuses for his gun grabbing

What gun grabbing? Please explain because afaik no guns have been grabbed and no new gun control legislation has been signed by this president. AF's description of you as a "class act" appears to ignore your biased tendency to make shit up.

CCTelander
09-16-2019, 01:08 PM
What gun grabbing? Please explain because afaik no guns have been grabbed and no new gun control legislation has been signed by this president. AF's description of you as a "class act" appears to ignore your biased tendency to make shit up.


if not victim disarmament (gun control) what precisely would you call the bump stock ban?

This should be good.

spudea
09-16-2019, 01:18 PM
if not victim disarmament (gun control) what precisely would you call the bump stock ban?

This should be good.

Not a gun.

CCTelander
09-16-2019, 01:25 PM
Not a gun.


So, you got nothin'.

When you're ready to join the adults here in reality by all means let us know. I'm sure someone will be willing to help you catch up.

spudea
09-16-2019, 01:27 PM
I'm sure someone will be willing to help you catch up.

So what gun grabbing?

Origanalist
09-16-2019, 02:00 PM
Not a gun.

A trigger is not a gun, a scope is not a gun, a iron sight is not a gun.

EBounding
09-16-2019, 02:08 PM
Maybe it'll be liability insurance? Or maybe it won't be anything! Who knows! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But even just saying he's considering it doesn't help.

CCTelander
09-16-2019, 02:43 PM
So what gun grabbing?


So, still nothin'?

I'm probably wasting my time but I've got a couple minutes.

You can maintain your orange hero worshiping delusions if you want but most of us, being responsible, relatively well-adjusted adults have to face reality. Out here in the real world words and actions have real consequences and cause real damage affecting real people, especially if the people speaking those words and taking those actions are in positions of power. When it comes to important issues like victim disarmament it's dangerously irresponsible to play semantic games like you're doing in order to win an internet argument or maintain a personal delusion. Real people wind up getting hurt.

Face reality. It'll be good for you.

kahless
09-16-2019, 02:44 PM
In this case his statements affect the momentum of the gun rights vs. gun control fight and the overton window, the statement is an action that should be attacked if it is bad.

Exactly. I did not even see your post before posting the same sentiments on Trump moving the overton window in the wrong direction just minutes after your post.

kahless
09-16-2019, 02:59 PM
"victim disarmament" cannot be stated enough times. If people here are out on social media I hope they are spreading that since it really breaks the conditioning and makes people think. Those that support further legislation including Republican voters and pro-gun people are simply not using their head since to them on the surface it all sounds good until you dig a little deeper. They hear "common sense", "mentally ill', "SSRI", yet fail to realize it may effect them or people that are no threat to anyone. Since it is coming from Trump and a Republican they feel there is no threat to 2A or their gun ownership.

They need to think about happens if they are a family member becomes a victim. Will they be flagged or as what happens to people that become victims of violent crimes they end up on SSRI's or seek therapy or see a Psychiatrist to help deal with it. The threat may even still exist but now they may no longer be able to protect themselves.

Also, what about all the mentally ill people, like someone suffering from depression or some form of anxiety that are no harm to themselves or others. Will they now refuse to seek treatment since they do not want to be denied access to their guns or have their guns confiscated. Will people prescribed anxiety, depression or had symptoms of PTSD at one time in their life no longer be able to own a gun? What about domestic violence? Someone has a false accusation 20 years ago, will that preclude them from having a gun?

The only thing that will stop the Trumps is vocal opposition from his own base.

CCTelander
09-16-2019, 06:25 PM
So, still nothin'?

I'm probably wasting my time but I've got a couple minutes.

You can maintain your orange hero worshiping delusions if you want but most of us, being responsible, relatively well-adjusted adults have to face reality. Out here in the real world words and actions have real consequences and cause real damage affecting real people, especially if the people speaking those words and taking those actions are in positions of power. When it comes to important issues like victim disarmament it's dangerously irresponsible to play semantic games like you're doing in order to win an internet argument or maintain a personal delusion. Real people wind up getting hurt.

Face reality. It'll be good for you.


ROTFLMAO!!!

Spuds McKenzie negged me for this. I'm crushed.

r3volution 3.0
09-16-2019, 06:35 PM
Its almost as if hes is trying to lose his base. The man has been a supporter gun control for decades. Even wrote a book about wanting to ban assault weapons. Nobody should be surprised by this.

I think he knows his base well.


Make all the noise you want in opposition to gun control, I do.
But commenting on what Trump might do before he does it and condemning him for what you imagine he might do is just dumb.
I'll comment when I know what he says.

He's talked vaguely about "doing something," but whatever that "something" turns out to be, it will be to the detriment of the rights of gun owners (it's certainly not going to be a loosening of gun regulations). So why wait for the details to criticize him? If AOC comes out with vague talk about "doing something" about climate change, do we need to wait for the details to start criticizing her for pushing more interventionist economic policies (which is the only thing that that "something" could be)? Of course not. So what's the difference?

:confused:

O wait, I know...

Swordsmyth
09-16-2019, 06:37 PM
I think he knows his base well.



He's talked vaguely about "doing something," but whatever that "something" turns out to be, it will be to the detriment of the rights of gun owners (it's certainly not going to be a loosening of gun regulations). So why wait for the details to criticize him? If AOC comes out with vague talk about "doing something" about climate change, do we need to wait for the details to start criticizing her for pushing more interventionist economic policies (which is the only thing that "something" could be)? Of course not. So what's the difference?

:confused:

O wait, I know...
Commenting on what Trump might do before he does it and condemning him for what you imagine he might do is just dumb.

Trump is not consistent.

TheTexan
09-16-2019, 06:38 PM
A trigger is not a gun, a scope is not a gun, a iron sight is not a gun.

Technically only 80%+ lower receivers are guns. The barrel, stock, or grip are really just accessories you don't really need.

r3volution 3.0
09-16-2019, 06:42 PM
Commenting on what Trump might do before he does it and condemning him for what you imagine he might do is just dumb.

Trump is not consistent.

Does this apply also when Trump makes statements that you like?

Say, about Afghanistan?

Swordsmyth
09-16-2019, 06:45 PM
Does this apply also when Trump makes statements that you like?

Say, about Afghanistan?
Partially, but in that case the statement is often an action itself that helps move the political momentum, just like I said about his bad statements on guns.

In this case we are waiting for Trump's statement and I have already said he should be criticized if it is bad.

r3volution 3.0
09-16-2019, 06:53 PM
Partially, but in that case the statement is often an action itself that helps move the political momentum, just like I said about his bad statements on guns.

In this case we are waiting for Trump's statement and I have already said he should be criticized if it is bad.

https://i.imgur.com/vxdTIR2.gif

Swordsmyth
09-16-2019, 06:59 PM
https://i.imgur.com/vxdTIR2.gif

You shouldn't try to juggle.

r3volution 3.0
09-16-2019, 07:10 PM
You shouldn't try to juggle.

You should run your Trumpsplanations past a neutral editor before posting them to avoid obvious self-contradictions as highlighted above.

Sloppy work, comrade, the Boss isn't going to be happy.

CCTelander
09-16-2019, 08:14 PM
Partially, but in that case the statement is often an action itself that helps move the political momentum, just like I said about his bad statements on guns.

In this case we are waiting for Trump's statement and I have already said he should be criticized if it is bad.


Again with the "IF it is bad."

By all means explain what pissible statement on victim disarmament you think is likely or even just possible to be issued by the Trump Administration that'scanything but bad.

Swordsmyth
09-16-2019, 08:45 PM
You should run your Trumpsplanations past a neutral editor before posting them to avoid obvious self-contradictions as highlighted above.

Sloppy work, comrade, the Boss isn't going to be happy.
There is no contradiction, if and when Trump says something bad he should then be criticized, he hasn't released the statement yet and people are attacking nothing.

kahless
09-16-2019, 08:49 PM
MAGA supporters might object to use of such language about a sitting First Daughter and Senior White House advisor. And to be fair, MAGA wanted to stop nepotism and them to move back to NYC:

I do not care who she is, what else should I call someone that wishes to make people defenseless victims against violent criminals?

If he really wanted to stop nepotism he would not have made her an advisor.

CCTelander
09-16-2019, 08:57 PM
There is no contradiction, if and when Trump says something bad he should then be criticized, he hasn't released the statement yet and people are attacking nothing.


Bullshit. People are drawing logical conclusions based upon Trump's statements and actions to this point, and quite reasonably projecting what his next likely move will be. Your insistance that they're "attacking nothing" is ridiculous.

Origanalist
09-16-2019, 09:22 PM
//

TheCount
09-16-2019, 10:19 PM
He might be.


When I wrote that, I was talking of the Jew's messiah, and mocking their world power, and the ability to win with a messiah.
I now see how powerful one man can be. The Jewish Messiah may very well be Trump.

What about this:


In all reality, Trump is the closest thing to a Savior America has seen since Lincoln (suck it, neo-confederates). Mostly because it never really needed saving since the Civil War.

America was doomed in 2015. Trump got a lot of people to wake up, and understand.

UWDude
09-16-2019, 11:00 PM
What about this:

Yup. whether he is the Messiah or not, what I said about him being the savior of America is true, same with the reason as to why, which is what I stated.

Millions upon millions woke up when he won, and to what is going on in this country.

r3volution 3.0
09-16-2019, 11:41 PM
There is no contradiction, if and when Trump says something bad he should then be criticized, he hasn't released the statement yet and people are attacking nothing.

Let's review:


Partially, but in that case the statement is often an action itself that helps move the political momentum, just like I said about his bad statements on guns.

In this case we are waiting for Trump's statement and I have already said he should be criticized if it is bad.

enhanced_deficit
09-16-2019, 11:43 PM
I do not care who she is, what else should I call someone that wishes to make people defenseless victims against violent criminals?

If he really wanted to stop nepotism he would not have made her an advisor.

Yea don't know why he made her an advisor. But he often listens to het advice apparently.

https://video.newsserve.net/700/v/20170409/1704091538-Ivanka-May-Have-Convinced-Trump-To-Bomb-Syria.jpg

Swordsmyth
09-16-2019, 11:45 PM
Let's review:

Past statements are not the same as a statement he hasn't made yet.

r3volution 3.0
09-16-2019, 11:48 PM
Past statements are not the same as a statement he hasn't made yet.

Brilliant insight, not sure what it has to do with the topic at hand though.

The bottom line is that Trump's made anti-gun statements, and you're defending him with this "wait and see" illogic.

Swordsmyth
09-16-2019, 11:55 PM
Brilliant insight, not sure what it has to do with the topic at hand though.

The bottom line is that Trump's made anti-gun statements, and you're defending him with this "wait and see" illogic.
He has also made strong pro-gun statements, thus the wait and see logic for commenting on what he says.

CCTelander
09-17-2019, 12:13 AM
He has also made strong pro-gun statements, thus the wait and see logic for commenting on what he says.


On the one hand he has made pro-gun statements but taken no real life action of any kind in a pro-gun direction. His statements, therefore, remain mere rhetoric.

On the other hand, he has made many anti-gun statements and ALSO taken decisive real life action in an anti-gun direction (bump stock ban).

Objectively the scales weigh heavily in an anti-gun direction.

Swordsmyth
09-17-2019, 12:18 AM
On the one hand he has made pro-gun statements but taken no real life action of any kind in a pro-gun direction. His statements, therefore, remain mere rhetoric.

On the other hand, he has made many anti-gun statements and ALSO taken decisive real life action in an anti-gun direction (bump stock ban).

Objectively the scales weigh heavily in an anti-gun direction.

He has taken real life action in the pro-gun direction.

CCTelander
09-17-2019, 12:39 AM
He has taken real life action in the pro-gun direction.


What might that be?

Swordsmyth
09-17-2019, 12:59 AM
What might that be?
Trump Backs Bid To Strike Down New York City Gun Laws At Supreme Court (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?534710-Trump-Backs-Bid-To-Strike-Down-New-York-City-Gun-Laws-At-Supreme-Court)


Trump Pulls Out Of UN Arms Trade Treaty Over 2nd Amendment Concerns (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?533886-Trump-Pulls-Out-Of-UN-Arms-Trade-Treaty-Over-2nd-Amendment-Concerns)


Trump to make it easier to export guns (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?533574-Trump-to-make-it-easier-to-export-guns)


Trump Pushes to Allow Troops to Carry Personal Weapons on Bases (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?519766-Trump-Pushes-to-Allow-Troops-to-Carry-Personal-Weapons-on-Bases)

There were other things too, O'Bummer actions that he ended for example.

TheCount
09-17-2019, 07:20 AM
Trump Backs Bid To Strike Down New York City Gun Laws At Supreme Court (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?534710-Trump-Backs-Bid-To-Strike-Down-New-York-City-Gun-Laws-At-Supreme-Court)


Trump Pulls Out Of UN Arms Trade Treaty Over 2nd Amendment Concerns (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?533886-Trump-Pulls-Out-Of-UN-Arms-Trade-Treaty-Over-2nd-Amendment-Concerns)


Trump to make it easier to export guns (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?533574-Trump-to-make-it-easier-to-export-guns)


Trump Pushes to Allow Troops to Carry Personal Weapons on Bases (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?519766-Trump-Pushes-to-Allow-Troops-to-Carry-Personal-Weapons-on-Bases)

There were other things too, O'Bummer actions that he ended for example.



Aren't those all statements?

eleganz
09-17-2019, 02:01 PM
I remember when Matt Collins posted about the bumpstock ban.

Many saw it coming and rumors were floated.

Trump indicated it was coming too.

And your lot said it was just empty statements to appease gun grabbers.

And some of you said it is a stupid accessory anyways.

And one of you posted link after link to show you could still buy them.

And then you couldn’t.

And now having one (which millions of people do) can get you charged with possession of a machine gun.

Quit being a bootlicker.


Lol, that is the response to someone saying to wait for the actual content to judge it by it's merits and not your assumptions?



http://www.relatably.com/m/img/limited-memes/4019957.jpg

eleganz
09-17-2019, 02:07 PM
It is actually not at all funny how you guys are not "freaking out" over it.

(If enough people had started "freaking out" sooner, maybe we wouldn't be in this position ...)

Whatever this upcoming proposal is announced to be, you can bet your ass that it isn't any kind of roll-back or negation of already existing gun-rights restrictions. At best, it will be some wishy-washy wiffle that will please no one and which will only serve to encourage gun-grabbers and increase momentum for yet more gun-rights restrictions. And that's the absolute best we can reasonably hope for - and that's quite bad enough (so there's really no need to even get into how much worse it could turn out to be). So why shouldn't anyone who gives a damn about gun rights be "freaking out" over it (especially given Trump's previous gun-grabby shenanigans)?

But whatever it turns out to be, I won't be the least bit surprised if the Trump apologists try to excuse, downplay and/or dismiss it out of hand, just as you are preemptively doing here. "Pretty funny," my ass ... :rolleyes:

Yea that is very cute.

Where is the proposal? Has it been released yet? Have you read it?

NO??? Well well well...

I will judge the proposal by it's content whenever its released, not what people are guessing at what the content might be.

You should try it out as well, its called not having a knee-jerk reaction.

kcchiefs6465
09-17-2019, 02:22 PM
Lol, that is the response to someone saying to wait for the actual content to judge it by it's merits and not your assumptions?



http://www.relatably.com/m/img/limited-memes/4019957.jpg
I remember some waiting for the actual content of Julian Assange’s indictment and condescendingly asking for specifics that he was facing more than five years.

While those with a common sense level higher than a blind parrot knew that there was a secret indictment that would put him away for life.

Imagine how special I felt that I wasn’t brainwashed enough that I couldn’t see through the bullshit.

EBounding
09-17-2019, 02:30 PM
I will judge the proposal by it's content whenever its released, not what people are guessing at what the content might be.



Is there an example of acceptable gun control legislation?

Philhelm
09-17-2019, 02:37 PM
Is there an example of acceptable gun control legislation?

Yes. Don't shoot people...without just cause.

Superfluous Man
09-17-2019, 02:39 PM
Is there an example of acceptable gun control legislation?

For the Trump trolls, the litmus test is whether or not Trump does it. If he does it, it's acceptable to them.

phill4paul
09-17-2019, 02:58 PM
Yes. Don't shoot people...without just cause.

Sounds about right. The long and the short of it.

Danke
09-17-2019, 03:05 PM
Is there an example of acceptable gun control legislation?

No nukes.

Krugminator2
09-17-2019, 04:05 PM
Is there an example of acceptable gun control legislation?

Do you think people with dementia should be able to own a firearm? I sure don't. I was with my dad fishing in the middle of nowhere Northern MI two weekends and he had no idea where anything was. I drove him to the hospital to determine if it was a stroke or Alzheimer's or a stroke. One of the first things I told the doctor while we were awaiting tests was he keeps a firearm in his glove box and has them all around the house. It turned out it was a stroke and has more or less recovered his faculties. But had it been Alzheimer's I would absolutely support making it illegal to own a gun. The thought of someone who is out of it mentally owning a gun and putting people around them or themselves at risk is ridiculous.

Swordsmyth
09-17-2019, 06:13 PM
Aren't those all statements?
No.

Try reading.

Stratovarious
09-17-2019, 06:16 PM
Do you think people with dementia should be able to own a firearm? I sure don't. I was with my dad fishing in the middle of nowhere Northern MI two weekends and he had no idea where anything was. I drove him to the hospital to determine if it was a stroke or Alzheimer's or a stroke. One of the first things I told the doctor while we were awaiting tests was he keeps a firearm in his glove box and has them all around the house. It turned out it was a stroke and has more or less recovered his faculties. But had it been Alzheimer's I would absolutely support making it illegal to own a gun. The thought of someone who is out of it mentally owning a gun and putting people around them or themselves at risk is ridiculous.

DU YU THUNK the family culd be smert enough to hide the guns take the from 'him' du yu thunk the gobt
is better are handling family matters :?:

:frog:

Occam's Banana
09-17-2019, 06:20 PM
Do you think people with dementia should be able to own a firearm? I sure don't. I was with my dad fishing in the middle of nowhere Northern MI two weekends and he had no idea where anything was. I drove him to the hospital to determine if it was a stroke or Alzheimer's or a stroke. One of the first things I told the doctor while we were awaiting tests was he keeps a firearm in his glove box and has them all around the house. It turned out it was a stroke and has more or less recovered his faculties. But had it been Alzheimer's I would absolutely support making it illegal to own a gun. The thought of someone who is out of it mentally owning a gun and putting people around them or themselves at risk is ridiculous.

How many gun deaths do Alzheimer's victims cause each year?

"Legislating to the exception" is why we are drowning in a sea of laws and regulations without ebb.

Every "obvious" reason that there "ought to be a law" (because something "bad" might happen) is pregnant with opportunities for never-ending extension and expansion (not to mention corruption and abuse). For just a few examples:
- Who gets to decide "who is out of it mentally?"
- Shouldn't we also prohibit the mentally-out-of-it from owning or using knives? Cars? Anything else that might be deemed dangerous? (And who is to do the deeming?)
- Shouldn't we also prohibit those who live with the mentally-out-it from owning or using the same things? After all, if I own guns and my father, who lives with me is "mentally out of it" ...

How about this - rather than trying to preemptively constrain what some people might do (a slippery slope that has no bottom), just hold people responsible for the things they have actually done (or failed to do, in the case of negligence - such as allowing my father with Alzheimer's to get hold of one of my guns and use it to hurt or kill someone). Tragedies happen. They always have, and they always will. Trying to obviate them preemptively is a never-ending utopian treadmill that will do nothing but create an ever-growing and increasingly untenable mountain of laws and rules, to the benefit of no one but lawyers and rulers ...

fedupinmo
09-17-2019, 06:22 PM
Do you think people with dementia should be able to own a firearm? I sure don't. I was with my dad fishing in the middle of nowhere Northern MI two weekends and he had no idea where anything was. I drove him to the hospital to determine if it was a stroke or Alzheimer's or a stroke. One of the first things I told the doctor while we were awaiting tests was he keeps a firearm in his glove box and has them all around the house. It turned out it was a stroke and has more or less recovered his faculties. But had it been Alzheimer's I would absolutely support making it illegal to own a gun. The thought of someone who is out of it mentally owning a gun and putting people around them or themselves at risk is ridiculous.

Misdiagnosis and robbing people of their rights on guess work is just dandy though, right? Blabbing to doctors about somebody else's gun ownership is just as stupid as talking to cops, and it can end up with your loved ones being hurt just the same.
Your experience should actually teach you of the folly in lightly allowing people to take the rights of others.

Occam's Banana
09-17-2019, 06:40 PM
Yea that is very cute.

Where is the proposal? Has it been released yet? Have you read it?

NO??? Well well well...

I will judge the proposal by it's content whenever its released, not what people are guessing at what the content might be.

You should try it out as well, its called not having a knee-jerk reaction.

There is no guessing or knee-jerking involved. Trump is a wishy-washy, half-assed gun grabber, and he has never been anything else.

One needs to wait for the release of Trump's wishy-washy, half-assed gun-grabbing proposal no more than one would, under other circumstances, need to wait for the release of Hillary's waffle-free, full-assed gun-grabbing proposal. The question is not, "Will it be bad?" The question is "How bad will it be?" And that is a consequence of the fact that Trump has been nothing but a wretched liability to the gun-rights movement. (But by all means, keep up the willfully obtuse pretense that you don't already know all this and need to see his proposal first before you can figure it out ...)

kcchiefs6465
09-17-2019, 06:50 PM
There is no guessing or knee-jerking involved. Trump is a wishy-washy, half-assed gun grabber, and he has never been anything else.

One needs to wait for the release of Trump's wishy-washy, half-assed gun-grabbing proposal no more than one would, under other circumstances, need to wait for the release of Hillary's waffle-free, full-assed gun-grabbing proposal. The question is not, "Will it be bad?" The question is "How bad will it be?" And that is a consequence of the fact that Trump has been nothing but a wretched liability to the gun-rights movement. (But by all means, keep up the willfully obtuse pretense that you don't already know all this and need to see his proposal first before you can figure it out ...)
Exactly this.

brushfire
09-17-2019, 07:20 PM
Exactly this.


There is no guessing or knee-jerking involved. Trump is a wishy-washy, half-assed gun grabber, and he has never been anything else.

One needs to wait for the release of Trump's wishy-washy, half-assed gun-grabbing proposal no more than one would, under other circumstances, need to wait for the release of Hillary's waffle-free, full-assed gun-grabbing proposal. The question is not, "Will it be bad?" The question is "How bad will it be?" And that is a consequence of the fact that Trump has been nothing but a wretched liability to the gun-rights movement. (But by all means, keep up the willfully obtuse pretense that you don't already know all this and need to see his proposal first before you can figure it out ...)



Yup... pretty much sums it all up.

Note that nearly every proposal serves as a catalyst for confiscation, while doing nothing to "prevent" the incidents that served as the impetus for the "must do something" legislation. These events cant get much more illegal than they already are - the laws arent stopping the crimes. So any legislation will be designed to turn lawful owners into newly created criminals - inch by inch, until all practical firearms are out of reach for the average citizen.

Always remember: Nobody is going to take our guns away, and if you like your healthcare plan, you can keep it. Truth, as spoken by our government.

UWDude
09-17-2019, 08:10 PM
There is no guessing or knee-jerking involved. Trump is a wishy-washy, half-assed gun grabber, and he has never been anything else.

One needs to wait for the release of Trump's wishy-washy, half-assed gun-grabbing proposal no more than one would, under other circumstances, need to wait for the release of Hillary's waffle-free, full-assed gun-grabbing proposal. The question is not, "Will it be bad?" The question is "How bad will it be?" And that is a consequence of the fact that Trump has been nothing but a wretched liability to the gun-rights movement. (But by all means, keep up the willfully obtuse pretense that you don't already know all this and need to see his proposal first before you can figure it out ...)

What are you going to say, if in 2 years, nothing has happened, and no laws have been passed? Maybe lots of talk, lots of Trump willing to negotiate. but in the end... nothing?

Do you acknowledge it is a possibility?

Should Trump start saying some of the mass shootings are false flags?

Do you acknowledge the possibility he believes some of them are, but just is not dumb enough to say so?

Its easy for us to say it anonymously on the internet....

TheCount
09-17-2019, 08:24 PM
No.

Try reading.

I did. Want me to quote you for you, Wormtongue?


The Trump administration has asked the Supreme Court


He proposes

The Trump administration also plans


President Donald Trump said Friday that he would review


Words words words. Statements, you might say.

Swordsmyth
09-17-2019, 08:36 PM
I did. Want me to quote you for you, Wormtongue?








Words words words. Statements, you might say.

Gollum has a reading problem:

Trump Backs Bid To Strike Down New York City Gun Laws At Supreme Court (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?534710-Trump-Backs-Bid-To-Strike-Down-New-York-City-Gun-Laws-At-Supreme-Court)

“To confine a weapon to the home is thus to preclude the owner from using it for many of the purposes that the right to keep and bear arms is meant to serve,” Solicitor General Noel Francisco told the justices in court papers (https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6013279-Trump-Administration-Brief-NYS-Rifle-and-Pistol.html).

Court filings are actions with consequences.

Trump Pulls Out Of UN Arms Trade Treaty (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?533886-Trump-Pulls-Out-Of-UN-Arms-Trade-Treaty-Over-2nd-Amendment-Concerns)

President Trump announced Friday that the United States will withdraw its signature from the UN Arms Trade Treaty

That is an action that ends a treaty that would have destroyed our gun rights.

Trump to make it easier to export guns (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?533574-Trump-to-make-it-easier-to-export-guns)

to do this by shifting oversight of the export of semi-automatic and non-automatic firearms, as well as of various gun components and some types of ammunition, from the Department of State to the Department of Commerce.

The Trump administration also plans to end State Department oversight of the publication of computer code enabling 3-D printable guns.


More actions.

Trump Pushes to Allow Troops to Carry Personal Weapons on Bases (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?519766-Trump-Pushes-to-Allow-Troops-to-Carry-Personal-Weapons-on-Bases)

he would review policies

Reviewing policies is also an action.



And that is not all he has done.

UWDude
09-17-2019, 08:38 PM
Don't forget this one:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

(imagine this place without Swordsmyth constantly deflecting the litany of lies and general ignorance of the haters club)

Swordsmyth
09-17-2019, 08:44 PM
Don't forget this one:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

(imagine this place without Swordsmyth constantly deflecting the litany of lies and general ignorance of the haters club)
Thanks. :)
CCTelander
The headline for those who don't follow links:

Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses

r3volution 3.0
09-17-2019, 09:07 PM
imagine this place without Swordsmyth constantly deflecting the litany of lies and general ignorance of the haters club

It might even be a libertarian forum.

https://www.siff.net//images/EDUCATION/2018/Psycho%20Scream.jpg

UWDude
09-17-2019, 09:10 PM
Don't forget this one:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221

(imagine this place without Swordsmyth constantly deflecting the litany of lies and general ignorance of the haters club)

Imagine how much power the haters club has on the censornet.

Trump losing to a nightmarish liberal is not impossible.

UWDude
09-17-2019, 09:13 PM
It might even be a libertarian forum.

https://www.siff.net//images/EDUCATION/2018/Psycho%20Scream.jpg

With three libertarians circle jerking each other off about how they are the only real libertarians, and champions of free speech and freedom after banning all dissenters.

RepublicanGuy is trying to drum up heat and conversation and unity.

Mmm, dat polarity.

Ron Paul has not been right about gold or silver yet.
I was a true blue believer.
Didn't happen.
Should I still be a true blue believer that gold and silver should be the base of the currency system?

r3volution 3.0
09-17-2019, 09:32 PM
With three libertarians

That sounds about right.


circle jerking each other off about how they are the only real libertarians, and champions of free speech and freedom after banning all dissenters.

I'm no partisan of free speech; this freedom is infinitely less important than, for example, the freedom to not pay taxes so high that you can't eat.

The vast majority of the population doesn't need freedom of speech, because they have nothing to say.

The idiot "intelligentsia" obsesses about this because they talk their book.

I would also have no problem with the state using police powers to stifle anti-libertarian activists, if that were necessary.


RepublicanGuy is trying to drum up heat and conversation and unity.

He's a toddler; anyone engaging him should be embarrassed.

...off to discuss monetary policy with my dog.


Mmm, dat polarity.

Not hip to your slang bro, yo, dog...


Ron Paul has not been right about gold or silver yet.
I was a true blue believer.
Didn't happen.
Should I still be a true blue believer that gold and silver should be the base of the currency system?

The performance of gold and silver as an investment has no bearing on the argument against monetary inflation.

...though, over certain long term periods, precious metals have outperformed stocks.

UWDude
09-17-2019, 09:48 PM
I would also have no problem with the state using police powers to stifle anti-libertarian activists, if that were necessary.


:tears:

r3volution 3.0
09-17-2019, 09:54 PM
:tears:

The humor is that you're confused and think libertarianism is about "tolerance"?

Swordsmyth
09-17-2019, 09:55 PM
:tears:
He's so sure that the kings will always be libertarians because history isn't full of mad monarchs. :rolleyes:

Swordsmyth
09-17-2019, 09:55 PM
The humor is that you're confused and think libertarianism is about "tolerance"?
What's funny is that you think it isn't about liberty.

r3volution 3.0
09-17-2019, 09:58 PM
What's funny is that you think it isn't about liberty.

No, what's funny is that you think gratuitous aggression against foreigners, who've harmed no one, is fine.

...and yet you pretend to object to the pragmatic approach that I was just discussing with what's his name.

UWDude
09-17-2019, 09:58 PM
The humor is that you're confused and think libertarianism is about "tolerance"?

Using force of arms to stifle peoples right to free speech.

You'd be using police powers to stifle yourself.

If only it were true.

Swordsmyth
09-17-2019, 10:02 PM
No, what's funny is that you think gratuitous aggression against foreigners, who've harmed no one, is fine.

...and yet you pretend to object to the pragmatic approach that I was just discussing with what's his name.
They do harm.

And any "aggression" I advocate is minimized to those trying to enter without permission, you advocate for its use against citizens in your "free" country and for using it against foreigners you want to "liberate".

UWDude
09-17-2019, 10:02 PM
No, what's funny is that you think gratuitous aggression against foreigners, who've harmed no one, is fine.


Gratuitous aggression!

Big words!

Your IQ must be above 110!

Do you need an IQ of 111 to understand the meaning of hyperbole?

UWDude
09-17-2019, 10:04 PM
I would also have no problem with the state using police powers to stifle anti-libertarian activists, if that were necessary.


:tears: :tears: :tears:

Now that you have attained the crown of Machiavelli, you "just" need to get power.
Which you still have zero of. Even if you count money as power.

Machiavelli wasn't written for paupers, fool.

r3volution 3.0
09-17-2019, 10:06 PM
Using force of arms to stifle peoples right to free speech.

Almost anything is potentially justifiable, depending on the circumstances. For example, suppose you're the ruler of a country (let's make up a nonsense word and call you, Oh I don't know, Tsar), and in order to prevent a coup d'etat by an organized revolutionary group which will kill twenty million people, you need to forcibly close down certain newspapers which promote the cause of the aforementioned genocidal lunatics. With those newspapers closed down, and twenty million people not killed, I will sleep just fine. How about you?

UWDude
09-17-2019, 10:08 PM
Almost anything is potentially justifiable, depending on the circumstances. For example, suppose you're the ruler of a country (let's make up a nonsense word and call you, Oh I don't know, Tsar), and in order to prevent a coup d'etat by an organized revolutionary group which will kill twenty million people, you need to forcibly close down certain newspapers which promote the cause of the aforementioned genocidal lunatics. With those newspaper closed down, and twenty million people not killed, I will sleep just fine. How about you?

You wont sleep just fine.

You and your family will become worm food for it.

Didn't they just recently find what they believe to be the Tsar's daughter remains?

Yeah, 62 years to find their bodies.

r3volution 3.0
09-17-2019, 10:12 PM
They do harm.

And any "aggression" I advocate is minimized to those trying to enter without permission, you advocate for its use against citizens in your "free" country and for using it against foreigners you want to "liberate".

You don't have permission to sleep in your bed tonight; we neighbors had a vote, you know.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U06jlgpMtQs

The community should be able to decide how it's governed..

Swordsmyth
09-17-2019, 10:12 PM
Almost anything is potentially justifiable, depending on the circumstances. For example, suppose you're the ruler of a country (let's make up a nonsense word and call you, Oh I don't know, Tsar), and in order to prevent a coup d'etat by an organized revolutionary group which will kill twenty million people, you need to forcibly close down certain newspapers which promote the cause of the aforementioned genocidal lunatics. With those newspapers closed down, and twenty million people not killed, I will sleep just fine. How about you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wntX-a3jSY

Swordsmyth
09-17-2019, 10:14 PM
You don't have permission to sleep in your bed tonight; we neighbors had a vote, you know.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U06jlgpMtQs
That's what you would do to your own citizens while allowing in those who would overthrow you and do worse, I would keep foreigners out and preserve a limited Constitutional Republic.

r3volution 3.0
09-17-2019, 10:14 PM
Gratuitous aggression!

Big words!

Your IQ must be above 110!

Do you need an IQ of 111 to understand the meaning of hyperbole?

...lol

r3volution 3.0
09-17-2019, 10:16 PM
That's what you would do to your own citizens

Have the state tell them how they can (or can't) exercise their property rights?

Yea, son of a bitch, that's communism!

What we need to defeat communism is collective decision making as to who gets to use land..

Swordsmyth
09-17-2019, 10:20 PM
Have the state tell them how they can (or can't) exercise their property rights?
Or just lock them up and take away all their liberty.


Yea, son of a bitch, that's communism!

What we need to defeat communism is collective decision making as to who gets to use land..
Keeping foreigners out of your territory does not make any decision about who may use land, anyone allowed in and any citizen may use any piece of land that they acquire the deed or other rights to on the open market.

r3volution 3.0
09-17-2019, 10:21 PM
You wont sleep just fine.

You and your family will become worm food for it.

Didn't they just recently find what they believe to be the Tsar's daughter remains?

Yeah, 62 years to find their bodies.

Persons such as yourself are an unfortunate byproduct of the last century.

It's not too late to become civilized.

Books abound.

;)

r3volution 3.0
09-17-2019, 10:22 PM
Or just lock them up and take away all their liberty.

Those would be the immigrants who committed no crime but got kidnapped and jailed?


Keeping foreigners out of your territory does not make any decision about who may use land, anyone allowed in and any citizen may use any piece of land that they acquire the deed or other rights to on the open market.

Oh, I didn't realize I was talking to Ted Turner.

Do you own the land in question?

...do I owe any rent?

Swordsmyth
09-17-2019, 10:27 PM
Those would be the immigrants who committed no crime but got kidnapped and jailed?

Those would be the citizens you want to lock up for saying things you are too afraid of to defeat on the battlefield of ideas with truth.
Invaders who did not commit any other crime would simply be expelled in my country.



Oh, I didn't realize I was talking to Ted Turner.

Do you own the land in question?

...do I owe any rent?
The nation owns the territory just like many other forms of collective ownership (remember when AF asked about Ford or GM or whichever corporation it was?).
As a citizen or a permitted guest you would not owe any rent because I would prohibit property taxes and head taxes in the Constitution.

UWDude
09-17-2019, 10:27 PM
Persons such as yourself are an unfortunate byproduct of the last century.

It's not too late to become civilized.

Books abound.

;)

Yeah. The censorship always backfires and becomes cause for revolution.

Fire in the Minds of Men. James Billington.

The Tsar was doomed because of the reality of what he was, and elitist despot who threw his country into an unwanted war, and then his press said nothing of the wounded or dead. But after a couple of million casualties, censorship can not stop the truth.

The truth will win. Try to destroy its manifestation on ink and paper, and it gains power. Because the truth is beyond printing presses and political forums and television shows.

And the truth is the tsar is dead. His family is dead, and if you were tsar, you'd be dead too. And censorship of papers would mean that it would more readily be spread via hushed tone and secret via angry mothers and sisters and daughters and sons whose father never came home in some war that made no sense to anyone.

Words are fucking useless. But without them, the mind is caged.
Go try and tell someone to shut up in real life.
Instinct kicks in when someone you don't know tells you to shut up.
Makes you want to talk, real bad.

r3volution 3.0
09-17-2019, 10:42 PM
Those would be the citizens you want to lock up for saying things you are too afraid of to defeat on the battlefield of ideas with truth.

If it would do more good than harm to restrict someone's speech (e.g. V. I. Lenin's)...

...that censorship would be entirely consistent with libertarianism.


Invaders who did not commit any other crime would simply be expelled in my country.Anyone I don't like will be arbitrarily labelled an invader and put in a cage, because liberty!

FIFY


The nation owns the territory

No, bolshevik, it doesn't.

Individual property owners own the land.

And you are advocating for the violation of their property rights, because you fear taco trucks, or whatever your derangement is.


just like many other forms of collective ownership (remember when AF asked about Ford or GM or whichever corporation it was?).

AF's so caught up in the culture war that he can't see anything else.

...e.g. the distinction between a voluntary pooling of property (as in a corporation, LLC, or partnership) and communism.

r3volution 3.0
09-17-2019, 10:56 PM
Yeah. The censorship always backfires and becomes cause for revolution.

No, the loosening of the censorship at the insistence of presumably well-meaning but dumb liberals often becomes the cause of the revolution.


Fire in the Minds of Men. James Billington.

Good book


The Tsar was doomed because of the reality of what he was, and elitist despot who threw his country into an unwanted war, and then his press said nothing of the wounded or dead. But after a couple of million casualties, censorship can not stop the truth.

The Tsar was doomed by happenstance.

There was nothing inherently unstable about that government.

Russia, Germany, Austria, and Turkey all collapsed. Britain and France would also have collapsed had they lost.

...which they nearly did: God, I wish they had.

This past century would have had quite a different appearance.


The truth will win. Try to destroy its manifestation on ink and paper, and it gains power. Because the truth is beyond printing presses and political forums and television shows.

Gentle George...


And the truth is the tsar is dead. His family is dead, and if you were tsar, you'd be dead too. And censorship of papers would mean that it would more readily be spread via hushed tone and secret via angry mothers and sisters and daughters and sons whose father never came home in some war that made no sense to anyone.

All states war; only some of them (such as the one which succeeded the Tsar's) murder their own citizens by the tens of millions in peacetime.

If it's your intent to make a moral equivalency between the old regime in Russia and Lenin's regime, you're not a person in my opinion.

...in which case, there's no reason for you to hee-haw at me.

Swordsmyth
09-17-2019, 10:59 PM
If it would do more good than harm to restrict someone's speech (e.g. V. I. Lenin's)...

...that censorship would be entirely consistent with libertarianism.
It would never do that and even if it did it would conflict with libertarianism.





Anyone I don't like will be arbitrarily labelled an invader and put in a cage, because liberty!

FIFY

LOL
I advocate for the rule of law and there would be a law saying who and how many people were allowed to visit or stay, anyone complying with the law would not be expelled whether I like them or not.
You are the one who wants to rule and cage people based on the whims of the monarch.



No, bolshevik, it doesn't.

Individual property owners own the land.
The land ownership would be held by individuals as I have already said, territory is a different level of ownership and it is collective like a corporation and held by the nation.


And you are advocating for the violation of their property rights, because you fear taco trucks, or whatever your derangement is.
I advocate for no violation of property rights but I do advocate for territorial control because I fear those who advocate for the violation of property rights.
You advocate for a violation of speech rights.




AF's so caught up in the culture war that he can't see anything else.

...e.g. the distinction between a voluntary pooling of property (as in a corporation, LLC, or partnership) and communism.
National territory is semi-voluntary because we are not born in discreet batches that mature just as the last generation dies but that doesn't make it communism.
It does not determine the ownership of the land as a means of production and it is absolutely required to keep out communists who also happen to oppose national territory and desire globalism just like you.

TheCount
09-17-2019, 11:19 PM
Court filings are actions with consequences.

No. Begging the court to do something is not an action, especially in a world in which breathless Trumpkins like yourself decide that Trump only means a third of the things that he says, and the rest are either lies or 44DD chess.




President Trump announced Friday that the United States will withdraw its signature from the UN Arms Trade Treaty

That is an action that ends a treaty that would have destroyed our gun rights.

The treaty was never ratified. Trump's words did precisely nothing.




to do this by shifting oversight of the export of semi-automatic and non-automatic firearms, as well as of various gun components and some types of ammunition, from the Department of State to the Department of Commerce.

The Trump administration also plans to end State Department oversight of the publication of computer code enabling 3-D printable guns.

"To do"

"Plans"

These are words which are used when referring to things that have not happened.

You know, like the lies that you tell yourself and others about troop withdrawals from Afghanistan. Those sort of things.




he would review policies

Reviewing policies is also an action.

Like you, Trump is functionally illiterate. No one actually believes that he can or would review anything.

Also "would," again, refers to an action that has not yet been taken.

You know, like "he said that he would drain the swamp.". And then he didn't. But he said that he would, and that's all that matters to you, isn't it?

r3volution 3.0
09-17-2019, 11:23 PM
It would never do that and even if it did it would conflict with libertarianism.

It very well could (there have been situations in which it has - as in Imperial Russia before the war) and this wouldn't conflict with libertarianism.

This is what makes me laugh deeply every time I log on or off this place.

You "woke" (if I may use that term) people have absolutely no fucking clue what's required to maintain a stable government.

You're children.

The very existence of a state conflicts with libertarianism; it's all a matter of compromise: minimizing (not abolishing) aggression.

I know you like to redefine words such that putting human beings in cages doesn't count as aggression, but that doesn't change anything.

The difference between us is this:

--I'm willing to tolerate minor aggression to prevent major aggression.

--You're willing to tolerate aggression to make sure no tacos are sold in your neighborhood.

Only one of those positions is consistent with libertarianism.


The land ownership would be held by individuals as I have already said, territory is a different level of ownership

It's a concept you especially developed to evade the obvious reality; you're treating the country as owned by the public.

Pinko


I advocate for the rule of law

Unless the law is being administered by a computer program, that's meaningless.

All law is the law of men.


and there would be a law saying who and how many people were allowed to visit or stay, anyone complying with the law would not be expelled whether I like them or not.

...the law would have flexibility as to which particular individuals would be kidnapped and put in a cage - super.


You are the one who wants to rule and cage people based on the whims of the monarch.

You are temperamentally (probably not intellectually) incapable of understanding, because you don't really want liberty.

You want: (a) democracy, and (b) ethnic homogeneity.

That's not going to work out the way you think it will.

Swordsmyth
09-17-2019, 11:25 PM
No. Begging the court to do something is not an action, especially in a world in which breathless Trumpkins like yourself decide that Trump only means a third of the things that he says, and the rest are either lies or 44DD chess.
Court filings are an action in support of gun rights, your spin is weak.





The treaty was never ratified. Trump's words did precisely nothing.
Trump's action to withdraw the American signature helped to make sure it wouldn't be ratified, both are required and removing one is certainly an action and not words.
Your spin is weak.




"To do"

"Plans"

These are words which are used when referring to things that have not happened.

You know, like the lies that you tell yourself and others about troop withdrawals from Afghanistan. Those sort of things.




Like you, Trump is functionally illiterate. No one actually believes that he can or would review anything.

Also "would," again, refers to an action that has not yet been taken.

You know, like "he said that he would drain the swamp.". And then he didn't. But he said that he would, and that's all that matters to you, isn't it?
The gun export changes did happen, I don't know about the military carry thing but I wouldn't be surprised if it did too.

Your spin is so weak that you just had to ignore this:

Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...mental-n727221 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221)

UWDude
09-17-2019, 11:26 PM
No, the loosening of the censorship at the insistence of presumably well-meaning but dumb liberals often becomes the cause of the revolution.

Symptom of a sick and dying government, not cause.
Government is sick and dying because it started the censorship it now wants to unravel.
Among thousands of other factors, that have nothign to do with the right to free speech.


Good book

What wizard seeking such fire could abstain from the secrets within?


The Tsar was doomed by happenstance.

as would you be. And reality and history shows I am right.



There was nothing inherently unstable about that government.


It just collapsed magically.
You do this all the time, you talk to me in hypotheticals and what ifs, as I talk about the realities.


God, I wish they had.

This past century would have had quite a different appearance.

You'd be swimming in pussy, money and sweet freedom if they had, right?



If it's your intent to make a moral equivalency between the old regime in Russia and Lenin's regime

I'm talking about the realities of oppression, war, and censorship. You are the one trying to bring morality and ideology into it, while feigning realpolitik.

Swordsmyth
09-17-2019, 11:36 PM
It very well could (there have been situations in which it has - as in Imperial Russia before the war) and this wouldn't conflict with libertarianism.

This is what makes me laugh deeply every time I log on or off this place.

You "woke" (if I may use that term) people have absolutely no $#@!ing clue what's required to maintain a stable government.

You're children.

The very existence of a state conflicts with libertarianism; it's all a matter of compromise: minimizing (not abolishing) aggression.

I know you like to redefine words such that putting human beings in cages doesn't count as aggression, but that doesn't change anything.

The difference between us is this:

--I'm willing to tolerate minor aggression to prevent major aggression.

--You're willing to tolerate aggression to make sure no tacos are sold in your neighborhood.

Only one of those positions is consistent with libertarianism.

Your lies are weak, I would not cage anyone, I would just eject them for invading, you would cage anyone that you were afraid of.
You r position goes far beyond what is required to form and keep a stable state for the purposes of minimizing aggression, mine is a basic building block.



It's a concept you especially developed to evade the obvious reality; you're treating the country as owned by the public.

Pinko
It's a concept as old as humanity that is also observable in nature and it is fundamentally required to preserve liberty from commies and tyrants like you.




Unless the law is being administered by a computer program, that's meaningless.

All law is the law of men.
That's nonsense, a law is a set rule that society agrees to follow whether they like to do so in any individual case or not, you are yet again showing that you seek to justify rule by the whim of a tyrant by trying to pretend that the alternative doesn't exist.




...the law would have flexibility as to which particular individuals would be kidnapped and put in a cage - super.
The law would not be flexible, that's the point.
And those few who violated it would simply be ejected as opposed to the many people you would lock up in a cage because you disagreed with them and you are too cowardly to defeat them through debate.




You are temperamentally (probably not intellectually) incapable of understanding, because you don't really want liberty.

You want: (a) democracy, and (b) ethnic homogeneity.

That's not going to work out the way you think it will.
You are either playing stupid or actually stupid.
I want a republic with the rule of law and fundamental limits in a Constitution and CULTURAL homogeneity.
It will work far better than any other system.

You want rule by the whims of all powerful and irresponsible tyrants, that's not going to work the way you claim it will. (which begs the question of whether you are just blind or are instead deceitful and intend it to work the way it will)

r3volution 3.0
09-17-2019, 11:53 PM
Symptom of a sick and dying government, not cause.
Government is sick and dying because it started the censorship it now wants to unravel.
Among thousands of other factors, that have nothign to do with the right to free speech.

https://media.giphy.com/media/2OhUmQLKKPZw4/200.gif

No, read about pre-war, pre-revolutionary Russia. There was the Tsar, attempting various liberal reforms, as with ending the communal land ownership of the peasants (which was extremely economically inefficient). The nobles resisted this; this is a deeply misunderstood aspect of European history on this side of the water. People think the monarch was in league with the nobles; to the contrary, it was constant war, the monarch trying to eliminate their privileges. To put it in modern retard-terms; the Tsar was fighting the "deep state," trying to eliminate special interests.

HOWEVER, as the Tsar was trying to liberalize, against the objections of the very politically influential nobility, the "intelligentsia" (i.e. psychotic morons with no responsibility at all) were propagandizing and sowing as many seeds for insane communistic revolution as they could. The Tsar was far too lenient. Those who joined the various terrorist organizations, attempting to assassinate imperial officials, were occasionally sent to exile in Siberia, but that wasn't nearly enough. You must understand that "exile to Siberia" under the old regime was not a euphemism for a death camp. It meant you would live in a nice house, with good food, no work assignment: your punishment consisting of being isolated from the rest of the country. Lenin got such a sentence. He lived in a little house past the Urals, eventually calling his common law wife to join him. He later described it as the happiest time in his life. He obviously should have been hanged, along with all of his revolutionary associates. The great sin of Nicholas II was excessive leniency, as with Louis XVI. They mistook their political opponents for human beings with consciences.


You'd be swimming in pussy, money and sweet freedom if they had, right?

More persons such as yourself would be able to survive and live well.


I'm talking about the realities of oppression, war, and censorship. You are the one trying to bring morality and ideology into it, while feigning realpolitik.

You're jabbering about nothing..

UWDude
09-18-2019, 12:04 AM
More persons such as yourself would be able to survive and live well.


Yeah, there is racism in the world, it is real, it is a real obstacle.
YOU THINK RACISM GONNA STOP KANYE?

I am fine, thank you.
Everybody has obstacles. Everybody has to pay taxes and other unfair things in life.
I believe the utopia is today.
This world is the best it has ever been, and it gets better everyday.



You're jabbering about nothing..

very well.

r3volution 3.0
09-18-2019, 12:14 AM
Yeah, there is racism in the world, it is real, it is a real obstacle.
YOU THINK RACISM GONNA STOP KANYE?

...?

What on Earth are you talking about?

Nothing I said had anything remotely to do with race.

I was talking about socialist revolutionaries and their idiot enablers.


I am fine, thank you.

Glad to hear it


Everybody has obstacles.
Everybody has to pay taxes and other unfair things in life.

I'm suddenly inspired to sing We Are The World.


I believe the utopia is today.
This world is the best it has ever been, and it gets better everyday.

I hope you're right sunshine, but history suggests otherwise.

r3volution 3.0
09-18-2019, 12:18 AM
Swordsmyth

Summarize your point in a paragraph, I'm feeling lazy.

UWDude
09-18-2019, 12:34 AM
I hope you're right sunshine, but history suggests otherwise.

What other time would you rather be living in?
Hey, what if, you actually were turning yourself into police?
Like, giving a psychological profile of yourself?
Everything you say is watched, and recorded.

You know, Winston worked for Minitru.
One of the reasons I now enjoy his torture.

History suggests humans get better.
No, it does not just suggest it, it verifies it.
We progress, and continue to progress.
And technology makes it better.

Deus Ex Machina

r3volution 3.0
09-18-2019, 12:57 AM
What other time would you rather be living in?

Entrepreneurial people accumulate capital despite the jackass politicians.

That is why you and I shit in a toilet rather than in a hole in the ground, among other things.

So, am I pleased to be alive in this particular stage in the long march toward socialism (contra a later stage)?

Of course, but I'll also be complaining about lost opportunities.

Eventually, the behavior of our government will not only slow growth, but cause negative growth.

If you're young enough, you'll be shitting in a hole again.

UWDude
09-18-2019, 01:01 AM
If you're young enough, you'll be $#@!ting in a hole again.

Rather be shitting in a hole, then dead in one.
You're right, I am young, old man.
Ideas are immortal.

r3volution 3.0
09-18-2019, 01:07 AM
Rather be shitting in a hole, then dead in one.
You're right, I am young, old man.
Ideas are immortal.

Ideas live as long as the people who hold them.

Do you know how ideas die?

The Committee of Public Safety selects the people who hold these ideas, and then they shoot them and throw them into the Rhone.

UWDude
09-18-2019, 01:09 AM
Hey, what if, you actually were turning yourself into police?
Like, giving a psychological profile of yourself?
Everything you say is watched, and recorded.


It really is interesting from here to see what happens when the words flow.
Using police force to silence an anti-libertarian activist, using the anti-libertarian activists' willingness to use force to silence opposing ideas as proof of their anti-libertarian activism.

The world might fucking suck, but MP's they got to beat up Winston and his party bitch.
Yeah, two bitch party members,one works for the ministry of truth, and the other is a member of the junior anti-sex league.

Moral of the story:
If you find yourself living in 1984, dont be a party member, they get tortured.
Dont be a prole, you cant. You aren't stupid.
Join the Military police, and execute party members.
This is the utopia they chose, in their ideology.
Deliver to them their sweet salvation.
Their burning nihilism at the stake.

XD

UWDude
09-18-2019, 01:13 AM
You're jabbering about nothing..

Watch this......

r3volution 3.0
09-18-2019, 01:24 AM
It really is interesting from here to see what happens when the words flow.
Using police force to silence an anti-libertarian activist, using the anti-libertarian activists' willingness to use force to silence opposing ideas as proof of their anti-libertarian activism.

Have you considered what it would mean to force people to adhere to libertarianism?

...forcing people to, for instance, not rob other people.

THE HORROR!


The world might fucking suck, but MP's they got to beat up Winston and his party bitch.
Yeah, two bitch party members,one works for the ministry of truth, and the other is a member of the junior anti-sex league.

Moral of the story:
If you find yourself living in 1984, dont be a party member, they get tortured.
Dont be a prole, you cant. You aren't stupid.
Join the Military police, and execute party members.
This is the utopia they chose, in their ideology.
Deliver to them their sweet salvation.
Their burning nihilism at the stake.

XD

You say you like the world as it is, but the above doesn't suggest that.

The world, or certain parts of it, anyway, is in fact magnificent...

P.S. Politics are garbage, but this system won't last, my grandchildren won't have to deal with this nonsense.

Patience

Occam's Banana
09-18-2019, 03:18 AM
What are you going to say, if in 2 years, nothing has happened, and no laws have been passed? Maybe lots of talk, lots of Trump willing to negotiate. but in the end... nothing?

Then I will continue saying exactly what I have been saying all along (in this thread and many others): Donald Trump is a wishy-washy, half-assed gun grabber who is just too chickenshit to take things any further, out of fear of alienating his base before the election. (And as I have also said before: after the election, if he wins, then all bets are off and there is no telling what the hell he will or won't end up doing ...)

But even if "nothing has happened, and no laws have been passed," Trump will still have thoroughly chummed the water for the sharks with "lots of talk, lots of [...] willing[ness] to negotiate" - such as he has already done with his "take the guns first, due process later" rhetoric, his voicing of support for "red flag" laws, his firearms-accessory regulation via executive-order fiat, and whatever the hell kind of mealy-mouthed, half-assed wiffle-waffle he ends up endorsing in this upcoming proposal.


Do you acknowledge it is a possibility?

Not only do I acknowledge the possibility, but that possibility is the very reason I refer to Trump as a "half-assed" gun grabber in the first place.


Should Trump start saying some of the mass shootings are false flags?

As I said in another thread several days ago, what Trump ought to do is present "a vehement, full-throated, no-holds-barred, damn-all-compromise opposition to any and all further curtailments of our gun rights (and an equally vehement support for the repeal or negation of the ones which are already in place)."

But of course, what with Trump being a half-assed gun grabber himself, that's the one thing that's pretty much guaranteed not to happen. Instead, what we'll almost certainly end up with is some kind of splitting of the difference between Beto O'Rourke's "Hell yes, we’re going to take your AR-15" and Trump's weak-sauce "lots of talk, lots of [...] negotiat[ion]" wiffle-waffle.

Stratovarious
09-18-2019, 05:24 AM
Gratuitous aggression!

Big words!

Your IQ must be above 110!

Do you need an IQ of 111 to understand the meaning of hyperbole?


The problem is, the phrase he used is only used there to impress, it is inappropriate in the
context of his statement, a contradiction in thought, a really ignorant application.

EBounding
09-18-2019, 06:09 AM
Do you think people with dementia should be able to own a firearm? I sure don't. I was with my dad fishing in the middle of nowhere Northern MI two weekends and he had no idea where anything was. I drove him to the hospital to determine if it was a stroke or Alzheimer's or a stroke. One of the first things I told the doctor while we were awaiting tests was he keeps a firearm in his glove box and has them all around the house. It turned out it was a stroke and has more or less recovered his faculties. But had it been Alzheimer's I would absolutely support making it illegal to own a gun. The thought of someone who is out of it mentally owning a gun and putting people around them or themselves at risk is ridiculous.

No, but only if they are afforded due process before their liberties are taken away. I guess you could say the 5th amendment is the "gun control" amendment?

UWDude
09-23-2019, 12:18 PM
A week is 7 days. This story is now 9 days old.

Fake News.

Superfluous Man
09-23-2019, 12:48 PM
Do you think people with dementia should be able to own a firearm? I sure don't. I was with my dad fishing in the middle of nowhere Northern MI two weekends and he had no idea where anything was. I drove him to the hospital to determine if it was a stroke or Alzheimer's or a stroke. One of the first things I told the doctor while we were awaiting tests was he keeps a firearm in his glove box and has them all around the house. It turned out it was a stroke and has more or less recovered his faculties. But had it been Alzheimer's I would absolutely support making it illegal to own a gun. The thought of someone who is out of it mentally owning a gun and putting people around them or themselves at risk is ridiculous.

Don't you think you're in a better position to make that decision about your dad than some hack bureaucrat working for Elizabeth Warren is?

Swordsmyth
09-23-2019, 02:53 PM
A week is 7 days. This story is now 9 days old.

Fake News.
I was going to say the same thing but you beat me.

UWDude
10-05-2019, 07:46 PM
Been 3 weeks now.

I remember this was the hot issue of the day.

How things change, like stormy and Alabama.

Oh and this isn't the only hyper-alarmist thread about gun control over the past two years, where all the haters clamor and gnash their teeth and condemn Trump for what they say he is going to do in the future.

UWDude
09-03-2020, 04:10 PM
But here is the deal.
If Trump outlawed partial birth abortion, I would not start calling Trump a right wing Christian wing nut zealot because he banned partial birth abortion...
...Though I am FOR partial birth abortion. I believe in slippery slope fallacy as well. To make it illegal gives the in utero rights before its first breath, and I am 100% against that.

But the whole "bump stock ban" ain't much of a thing, I really don't care about it. To me it's like partial birth abortion. Both are rare, and usually not necessary.

SO, yeah, if Trump does red flag laws, I will be very alarmed. What I expect are the politicians way out "A list of laws that strengthen background checks". It gets rolled over in congress a bit like the rumble in a lower gut and then escapes harmlessly as a fart. That's what I expect.

Kind of like 90% of the alarmist headlines that have been screamed across this board for the past 3 years. Most of them have turned out to be harmless farts, while people like CCTelander has been screaming that we are about to get buried in diarrhea.

And at the core of it, is a big desire to convince me trump is evil.
If I ever decide Trump is evil, it will have nothing to do with the constant gnashing of teeth of the haters here about everything Trump might do or is considering or Tweets about even.


What I expect are the politicians way out "A list of laws that strengthen background checks". It gets rolled over in congress a bit like the rumble in a lower gut and then escapes harmlessly as a fart. That's what I expect.




Almost been a year now.

And yet there are still people here on these baords calling Trump the "gun grabber in chief" and still posting new articles every day condemning Trump for what he is considering based on fake news publications.

Swordsmyth
09-03-2020, 09:28 PM
What I expect are the politicians way out "A list of laws that strengthen background checks". It gets rolled over in congress a bit like the rumble in a lower gut and then escapes harmlessly as a fart. That's what I expect.




Almost been a year now.

And yet there are still people here on these baords calling Trump the "gun grabber in chief" and still posting new articles every day condemning Trump for what he is considering based on fake news publications.
There have been constant predictions of new wars and other horrors supposedly about to proceed from Trump and then it is never acknowledged that they don't happen.

In fact the wolf criers carry on as if every one of their dire predictions actually happened.

Champ
09-03-2020, 10:42 PM
Almost been a year now.

And yet there are still people here on these baords calling Trump the "gun grabber in chief" and still posting new articles every day condemning Trump for what he is considering based on fake news publications.

These people can't be reasoned with, no need to waste your time anymore trying to, and I assume since you have taken long breaks from this site, you already know this. They aren't here asking legitimate questions that they are genuinely looking to get answers for or trying to have deep in depth discussions. They want to paint the picture that he is worse than Obama, Bush, and Clinton combined. They hardly ever said a peep about any of aforementioned presidents even though many of these accounts were here prior to 2016, but make sure to divide and conquer, demoralize, and shame anyone who dares even be neutral on the topic. And they are going along with the mainstream media narrative to a T, which is your #1 indicator to not listen to anything they have to say.

Just like Trump is now being blamed for all of the violence and the rioting that we know is being funded by Dems/deep state/foreign operatives trying to destroy the election and the country, they like to say that it's Trump supporters fault that the boards lost most of their members, when in fact, it's the disingenuous people that came into threads for the last 5 years making sure there would never be unity here in any way shape or form. Cautious unity that could have been similar to how both Thomas Massie, Rand Paul, and Dr. Paul have at times supported Trump when he is doing good and called him out when he did something stupid.

Same tactics for completely different platforms, accuse your enemy (real liberty loving posters at RPF) of what you (trolls) are guilty of and bring others to come to your side to embolden that stance.

UWDude
09-03-2020, 11:55 PM
Oh, I don't know. A FIRST step toward rehabilitation for Trump apologists might be to stop making excuses for his gun grabbing.

Just a thought.

what gun grabbing?


Maybe you should sit this one out and let the rational adults handle it.

So rational, except we were right, about this, and a hundred other "Trump considering" hysterical nonsense you hyenas howled about over the past four years.


Oh, I see. Off your meds again, eh? Carry on.

You are the zombie trying to cure your madness with chemicals that will kill you and destroy your kidneys, not me. Deal with reality, and you will not need the drugs. You are in control of your mind, not chemicals.


You can maintain your orange hero worshiping delusions if you want but most of us, being responsible, relatively well-adjusted adults have to face reality.

Reality is exactly what I told you it was. Nothing happened. You, the medicated, mentally ill zombie, telling me to join your medicated, delusional fantasy land, and telling me it is reality is insulting beyond belief, and I despise every single one of you medicated mentally unfit zombies who dares to talk down to me for it. Mental nutcases try to tell me about reality while popping perception bending prescription pills hoping to change their own. Weak minded fools. Tens of millions of them on the internet, in a drugged up haze, trying to tell me about reality. I can't wait until those drugs dry up. (They will, watch). The suicide wave will be a glorious culling of those no longer needed in this society.

"Off your meds again, eh?"

I control my mind, and am grounded in reality. I don't use psychopharmacology to change my brain. I am in control of my brain. If I have anxiety or depression, I correct my actions in the world that are creating the anxiety or depression. I don't pop a pill and ignore the damage I am causing the world around me because I'd rather not face myself, and just pop a pill and convince myself it is some chemcial imbalance causing my life to suck. It's not a chemical imbalance. It's you not fixing what needs to be fixed in your life.


Bull$#@!. People are drawing logical conclusions based upon Trump's statements and actions to this point, and quite reasonably projecting what his next likely move will be. Your insistance that they're "attacking nothing" is ridiculous.

Ridiculous? It was 100% correct. You were and always are the ridiculous one.

Day in and day out on these boards, it is story after story of "Trump cosnidering this" "Trump doing that" based on "sources".

Then you hyenas go into purity frenzies of condemnations of how anti-Liberty Trump is. Positioning yourselves as the purest libertarian of them all. So moral and pure, as you take fake news day in and day out at their word about what Trump is going to do.

It doesn't matter that he never really does. You all forget that, every fucking time. Your emotions still high from the last hysterical frenzy, somehow confirming that the next hysterical frenzy is also justified. Just move on to the next fake news report telling us that Trump is about to really go full fascist this time. Four years of this little charade, day in, and day out.

And then you have the audacity to tell me to get on your ignore reality pills, and the audacity to tell me about "adults talking".

YOU are the mental head case. YOU are the toddler throwing a tantrum every day. YOU are the insane one. YOU are NOT one of the adults in the room.

UWDude
09-28-2020, 03:27 PM
Some say antiMAGA forces disappointment has been enhanced by the lack of gun control regulations passed by Adelson-GOP jarvanka wing, even though no deficit of strongly pro-2A members in nonMAGA/Likud retinue.

related:

presidential predictions of enhanced tyranny sour into deficits of correct predictions over MAGA term (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?549459-Remember-when-there-was-a-subforum-for-2016-presidential-election)