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PAF
08-07-2019, 10:39 AM
Ron Paul Institute
Written by Jacob G. Hornberger
Wednesday August 7, 2019


6858


The US Empire, which controls much of the world through hundreds of military bases in foreign countries, through foreign regimes run by domestic US puppets, and through foreign dependency on US foreign aid, got its start in 1898 during the Spanish American War. It was that war that enabled the Empire to acquire its imperialist domain in Cuba known as Guantanamo Bay, which is now the Empire’s premier international indefinite-detention prison, torture center, and kangaroo judicial system.

The late 1800s were a time of worldwide empires. Great Britain, France, Spain, and others were empires, possessing and oftentimes brutally controlling people in faraway colonies. Although the US Constitution had called into existence a limited-government republic, by the time the latter part of the 19th century had arrived, many Americans had been swept up in the pro-empire fervor, owing largely to the Progressive movement, which was also influencing America toward embracing the worldwide move toward socialism and interventionism. The Progressive idea was that in order for the United States to become a great nation, it needed to become an empire, just like other empires.

In 1898, Cuba and other possessions of the Spanish Empire were fighting for their freedom and independence. Since this was a time in which US officials were still following the Constitution’s declaration-of-war requirement, President William McKinley sought and secured a declaration of war against Spain, with the ostensible aim of helping the Spanish colonies win their freedom and independence.

It was a lie and a double cross of those who were fighting for their freedom and independence. In fact, the real aim was to replace the Spanish Empire by defeating it and taking possession and control over its colonies, with the aim of making America great by converting it into an empire.

Upon winning the war, the US took control of Cuba, the Philippines, Guam, and Puerto Rico. The Filipinos kept fighting, this time against the world’s newest empire, the United States. For a good account of that war and what it did to American values, see “America’s Other Original Sin” (https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/americas-other-original-sin-philippines/) by Andrew J. Bacevich, which appeared this week in the American Conservative.

The Cubans, on the other hand, surrendered to US power. As part of its victory, the new US Empire forced Cuban officials to entire into a lease that granted the empire a perpetual lease of the 45-square-mile property known as Guantanamo Bay.

The lease provided for payment of $2,000 per year in gold coin. After President Franklin Roosevelt nationalized gold in the United States, in 1934 US officials forced Cubans to accept a modification of the lease that enabled the Empire to pay Cuba $4,000 in US paper money, an amount that, needless to say, has significantly decreased in value over the decades owing to the Empire’s inflationary financial policies.

The Cubans don’t cash the checks the Empire sends them because their position is that the lease isn’t valid anyway.

From a legal standpoint, the Cubans are right. Since the lease agreements for Gitmo were made under conditions of force, fraud, and duress, they have been null and void from their inception. Moreover, since the leases provide for no fixed expiration date, that also makes them null and void under the law.

Of course though, the law is irrelevant. All that matters is force. Since the US Empire is much more powerful than the Spanish Empire was, there is absolutely nothing the Cubans can do to regain their property.

Beyond the illegality of the US Empire’s control of Gitmo, Americans need to ask a critically important question: What business does the US government have owning and operating an imperialist military outpost in a foreign country? America was founded as a limited-government republic, not an empire.

Moreover, the Progressives have been proven wrong in the assertion that the way to national greatness lies in empire. It’s the exact opposite. An empire weakens, corrupts, and ultimately destroys a nation, not only through the out-of-control spending and debt required to sustain it but also through the moral degradation that comes with forcibly controlling and brutalizing people in faraway lands.

After all, look at the stain of immorality that the US national security establishment — i.e., the Pentagon and the CIA — has brought to our nation because of Guantanamo Bay. How can a nation whose government establishes an indefinite detention prison, a torture center, and a kangaroo judicial system in an overseas imperialist outpost, with the express intention to avoid the Constitution and the Supreme Court, be considered a great nation? That’s the sort of thing that totalitarian nations, not great ones, do.

It’s time to dismantle the US Empire and restore our founding principle of a limited-government republic to the United States. A great place to start would be by giving Guantanamo Bay back to Cuba, followed by a termination of all foreign aid, a closure of all foreign military bases, and an end to regime-change operations around the world.


http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2019/august/07/give-guantanamo-back-to-cuba/

Zippyjuan
08-07-2019, 11:25 AM
To do so would force the US to admit that they are illegally detaining people without charges or rights to trial.

We should give the whole country back to Cubans and end the tariffs and sanctions which have failed to accomplish anything over the last 50+ years.

RJB
08-07-2019, 11:37 AM
Actually, Cuba should be more libertarian and further open its border to allow more American military personnel to move there. From what the media tells me, Cuba should be happy to welcome us. American service men and women are good, hardworking, family oriented folks.

RJB
08-07-2019, 12:13 PM
Also there are 3 vitally important issues missing from this:

1. It's Cuba's fault. If they would put less emphasis on having such a strategic port, US service men wouldn't migrate there.

2. It's very karmic because no one invited the Cubans. It was settled by genocidal conquistadors.

3. If Cuba would follow NAP and allow the free migration of US service men, then the US service men could migrate to Gitmo peacefully.

Swordsmyth
08-07-2019, 05:41 PM
Also there are 3 vitally important issues missing from this:

1. It's Cuba's fault. If they would put less emphasis on having such a strategic port, US service men wouldn't migrate there.

2. It's very karmic because no one invited the Cubans. It was settled by genocidal conquistadors.

3. If Cuba would follow NAP and allow the free migration of US service men, then the US service men could migrate to Gitmo peacefully.
;)

TheTexan
08-07-2019, 05:56 PM
Cuba should be thanking us for keeping a base there.

They should be paying us not the other way around.

Maybe Trump can "renegotiate" this deal in his 2nd term.

Stratovarious
08-07-2019, 06:00 PM
To do so would force the US to admit that they are illegally detaining people without charges or rights to trial.
...

We already have.

RJB
08-07-2019, 06:07 PM
They should be paying us not the other way around.

That's insane. It's like Cuba thinks it's a sovereign nation with borders or something. Thankfully our armed services are tearing down these walls.

No borders. No walls. No Cuba at all!

oyarde
08-07-2019, 06:10 PM
I see no reason to give them anything . Are they giving back all of the private property they took or giving reparations to the families of the executed ?

Stratovarious
08-07-2019, 06:11 PM
Ron Paul Institute
Written by Jacob G. Hornberger
Wednesday August 7, 2019


6858


The US Empire, which controls much of the world through hundreds of military bases in foreign countries, through foreign regimes run by domestic US puppets, and through foreign dependency on US foreign aid, got its start in 1898 during the Spanish American War. It was that war that enabled the Empire to acquire its imperialist domain in Cuba known as Guantanamo Bay, which is now the Empire’s premier international indefinite-detention prison, torture center, and kangaroo judicial system.

The late 1800s were a time of worldwide empires. Great Britain, France, Spain, and others were empires, possessing and oftentimes brutally controlling people in faraway colonies. Although the US Constitution had called into existence a limited-government republic, by the time the latter part of the 19th century had arrived, many Americans had been swept up in the pro-empire fervor, owing largely to the Progressive movement, which was also influencing America toward embracing the worldwide move toward socialism and interventionism. The Progressive idea was that in order for the United States to become a great nation, it needed to become an empire, just like other empires.

In 1898, Cuba and other possessions of the Spanish Empire were fighting for their freedom and independence. Since this was a time in which US officials were still following the Constitution’s declaration-of-war requirement, President William McKinley sought and secured a declaration of war against Spain, with the ostensible aim of helping the Spanish colonies win their freedom and independence.

It was a lie and a double cross of those who were fighting for their freedom and independence. In fact, the real aim was to replace the Spanish Empire by defeating it and taking possession and control over its colonies, with the aim of making America great by converting it into an empire.

Upon winning the war, the US took control of Cuba, the Philippines, Guam, and Puerto Rico. The Filipinos kept fighting, this time against the world’s newest empire, the United States. For a good account of that war and what it did to American values, see “America’s Other Original Sin” (https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/americas-other-original-sin-philippines/) by Andrew J. Bacevich, which appeared this week in the American Conservative.

The Cubans, on the other hand, surrendered to US power. As part of its victory, the new US Empire forced Cuban officials to entire into a lease that granted the empire a perpetual lease of the 45-square-mile property known as Guantanamo Bay.

The lease provided for payment of $2,000 per year in gold coin. After President Franklin Roosevelt nationalized gold in the United States, in 1934 US officials forced Cubans to accept a modification of the lease that enabled the Empire to pay Cuba $4,000 in US paper money, an amount that, needless to say, has significantly decreased in value over the decades owing to the Empire’s inflationary financial policies.

The Cubans don’t cash the checks the Empire sends them because their position is that the lease isn’t valid anyway.

From a legal standpoint, the Cubans are right. Since the lease agreements for Gitmo were made under conditions of force, fraud, and duress, they have been null and void from their inception. Moreover, since the leases provide for no fixed expiration date, that also makes them null and void under the law.

Of course though, the law is irrelevant. All that matters is force. Since the US Empire is much more powerful than the Spanish Empire was, there is absolutely nothing the Cubans can do to regain their property.

Beyond the illegality of the US Empire’s control of Gitmo, Americans need to ask a critically important question: What business does the US government have owning and operating an imperialist military outpost in a foreign country? America was founded as a limited-government republic, not an empire.

Moreover, the Progressives have been proven wrong in the assertion that the way to national greatness lies in empire. It’s the exact opposite. An empire weakens, corrupts, and ultimately destroys a nation, not only through the out-of-control spending and debt required to sustain it but also through the moral degradation that comes with forcibly controlling and brutalizing people in faraway lands.

After all, look at the stain of immorality that the US national security establishment — i.e., the Pentagon and the CIA — has brought to our nation because of Guantanamo Bay. How can a nation whose government establishes an indefinite detention prison, a torture center, and a kangaroo judicial system in an overseas imperialist outpost, with the express intention to avoid the Constitution and the Supreme Court, be considered a great nation? That’s the sort of thing that totalitarian nations, not great ones, do.

It’s time to dismantle the US Empire and restore our founding principle of a limited-government republic to the United States. A great place to start would be by giving Guantanamo Bay back to Cuba, followed by a termination of all foreign aid, a closure of all foreign military bases, and an end to regime-change operations around the world.


http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2019/august/07/give-guantanamo-back-to-cuba/


Cuba has a massive reputation and history of Torture, Democide, Human Rights abuses, so yea we should give it back
so they may enjoy applying more torture , murder, inhumane, human rights abuses, discreetly, cast upon their citizens.

:frog:

PS....... Are you against Cuba opening its borders to the world, NO , ''CAN I SEE YOUR PAPERS BS ?

omg this thread delivers.... (herpes)
:frog:

Stratovarious
08-07-2019, 06:27 PM
That's insane. It's like Cuba thinks it's a sovereign nation with borders or something. Thankfully our armed services are tearing down these walls.

No borders. No walls. No Cuba at all!

''You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to RJB again.''

US Servicemen are owed a lavish and coddled life style in Cuba at CUBA's expense,
considering they have allowed Cuba to exist, without the generous kindness of
our Military , Cuba would be less than a box of rocks.

Does anyone have the misconception in their feeble minds that Cuba would not have
reduced us to rubble had they the wherewithal to do so ?

Anti Globalist
08-07-2019, 07:05 PM
Gitmo should also be closed as well. Obama said he'd do that if elected president.

Zippyjuan
08-07-2019, 07:29 PM
Gitmo should also be closed as well. Obama said he'd do that if elected president.

Congress kept preventing him from doing so. He did significantly reduce the number of prisoners there. There used to be over 700 but it is down to 40. Over $6 billion has been spent on the facility.

https://theintercept.com/2015/11/10/congress-overwhelmingly-votes-to-block-guantanamo-closure/


CONGRESS OVERWHELMINGLY VOTES TO BLOCK GUANTÁNAMO CLOSURE

The Senate, by a veto-proof 91-3 margin, passed a revamped defense spending bill on Tuesday that still contains provisions intended to prevent President Obama from closing Guantánamo Bay prison.

The bill already passed the House 370-58, also more than enough votes to override a veto, should it come to that.

Obama vetoed the bill last month, citing both funding disagreements and language intended to ban all transfers of Guantánamo prisoners to the United States, heighten the barrier to shift them overseas, and prohibit moves to specific countries.

Since then, lawmakers essentially acceded to his budget demands, cutting funding for sweetheart programs and authorizing $715 million to help Iraqi forces fight Islamic State rebels, among other changes.

But the Guantánamo provisions remain.

Obama cited the bill’s Guantánamo problems as some of the most important in a rare veto-signing ceremony on October 23.

“This legislation specifically impeded our ability to close Guantánamo in a way that I have repeatedly argued is counterproductive to our efforts to defeat terrorism around the world,” he said. “Guantánamo is one of the premiere mechanisms for jihadists to recruit. It’s time for us to close it. It is outdated; it’s expensive; it’s been there for years. And we can do better in terms of keeping our people safe while making sure that we are consistent with our values.”

What Obama does now is not clear. Even when not faced with veto-proof majorities, he has caved to Congressional demands about Guantánamo before, first threatening vetoes then signing the bills anyway.

Closing the controversial Cuban military lock-up has been a goal for Obama since his first full day in office in 2009. He vowed by executive order to close it within a year, but Republicans in Congress began chipping away immediately.




https://nationalpost.com/news/world/it-costs-us6-million-per-inmate-to-run-guantanamo-and-as-prisoners-are-transferred-out-that-cost-will-get-higher


It costs US$6 million per inmate to run Guantanamo, and as prisoners are transferred out, that cost will get higher

Remember the 1970s TV series “The Six Million Dollar Man?” The U.S. now has 61 of them, all at the Guantanamo Bay military prison that President Barack Obama wants to close.

As the U.S. draws down the prison population by transferring inmates to friendly nations, the cost of housing terrorism suspects at the detention facility in Cuba has climbed to about US$6 million per person, according to an analysis of Defense Department figures. That’s produced a politically convenient byproduct for an administration determined to close the site: sticker shock.

The per-inmate cost will only increase as Obama continues to transfer prisoners, as he did last week when 15 detainees were sent to the United Arab Emirates.

“The ballooning waste of taxpayer dollars to imprison people without charge or trial is one of the many good reasons why Guantanamo should be closed,” said Hina Shamsi, director of the National Security Project at the American Civil Liberties Union, which highlighted the prison’s cost.



Now that the population is down to 40, the cost per inmate is $10 million a year.

Stratovarious
08-07-2019, 07:38 PM
Congress kept preventing him from doing so. He did significantly reduce the number of prisoners there. There used to be over 700 but it is down to 40. Over $6 billion has been spent on the facility.

https://theintercept.com/2015/11/10/congress-overwhelmingly-votes-to-block-guantanamo-closure/




https://nationalpost.com/news/world/it-costs-us6-million-per-inmate-to-run-guantanamo-and-as-prisoners-are-transferred-out-that-cost-will-get-higher



Now that the population is down to 40, the cost per inmate is $10 million a year.

Wonderful, so how is reducing instead of ending , such a Nobel act...

That's like supporting someone calling for less sanctioned rape.

Pauls' Revere
08-07-2019, 07:41 PM
We should move the UN there.

Swordsmyth
08-07-2019, 07:48 PM
Congress kept preventing him from doing so. He did significantly reduce the number of prisoners there. There used to be over 700 but it is down to 40. Over $6 billion has been spent on the facility.

https://theintercept.com/2015/11/10/congress-overwhelmingly-votes-to-block-guantanamo-closure/




https://nationalpost.com/news/world/it-costs-us6-million-per-inmate-to-run-guantanamo-and-as-prisoners-are-transferred-out-that-cost-will-get-higher



Now that the population is down to 40, the cost per inmate is $10 million a year.
That's not how you deal with Trump and what he does or doesn't do.

Brian4Liberty
08-07-2019, 07:57 PM
They have plans for Gitmo...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?537700-Americans-Should-Be-Very-Skeptical-Of-Calls-For-New-Terrorism-Laws

CoastieInColorado
08-07-2019, 08:04 PM
They need to fix the damn golf course on the base. It was shit when I was there in '02-3-4-5.

Horrible place to learn golf, there were iguanas and rocks all over the fairways, ridiculous.

Zippyjuan
08-07-2019, 08:32 PM
That's not how you deal with Trump and what he does or doesn't do.

Closing down an unneeded thing wasting taxpayer money is a good thing. Building something not needed (as Ron Paul agrees) and wasting taxpayer money is not a good thing but both have been treated similarly by Congress trying to stifle their efforts.

Swordsmyth
08-07-2019, 08:38 PM
Closing down an unneeded thing wasting taxpayer money is a good thing. Building something not needed (as Ron Paul agrees) and wasting taxpayer money is not a good thing but both have been treated similarly by Congress trying to stifle their efforts.
The wall is not the only place you have treated Trump differently.

Origanalist
08-07-2019, 10:21 PM
They need to fix the damn golf course on the base. It was shit when I was there in '02-3-4-5.

Horrible place to learn golf, there were iguanas and rocks all over the fairways, ridiculous.

Racist post, reported.

Swordsmyth
08-07-2019, 10:37 PM
They need to fix the damn golf course on the base. It was $#@! when I was there in '02-3-4-5.

Horrible place to learn golf, there were iguanas and rocks all over the fairways, ridiculous.
You should have killed and eaten the iguanas.

CoastieInColorado
08-07-2019, 10:48 PM
Racist post, reported.

I suppose, it is mostly Cubans (yes, from the other side of the gate) Jamaicans and I believe Dominicans IIRC(insert they all look the same joke here) that work on the base(or, again, it was back then, its' been almost 15 years since I was last there).


You should have killed and eaten the iguanas.

Can't do it, at least you couldn't back then, apparently there was a big fine and even UCMJ type punishment for even trying to pet one. As a result, they were on that base like a rat infestation(oh shit, there's that racist dog whistle again, y'all hear it boys?).

Occam's Banana
08-07-2019, 11:50 PM
[...] (oh shit, there's that racist dog whistle again, y'all hear it boys?).

Reported for self-confessed crypto-racism.

And "boys?" Reported for gender assumption also ...

RJB
08-08-2019, 06:09 AM
I want to apologise for referring to the migrants as "US service men.". Particularly to Coastie who migrated there. These migrants are actually citizens-- They are Cubans and should be allowed to vote in Cuban elections.