IL-Massive property tax increases hit Chicago home squatters

[Anti Federalist]

Not home owners. None of us are home owners...just peasants squatting on the King's Land at the whim of the local liege-lord.



Dramatic rise in property taxes for Cook County, Chicago’s North Side

https://wgntv.com/2019/07/10/dramatic-rise-in-property-taxes-for-cook-county-chicagos-north-side/

POSTED 11:44 AM, JULY 10, 2019, BY JULIANA TORNABENE AND MARCELLA RAYMOND, UPDATED AT 10:42AM, JULY 10, 2019

CHICAGO — Cook County property owners are getting their latest property tax bills and that is creating some sticker shock.

Across the county, second installment 2018 property tax bills are up an average of 4% from 2017.

On the North Side of Chicago, homeowners could see an 11% increase in their bill, while South Side homeowners could see a 1% increase.

These taxes are due August 1.

David Merriman, a professor of public administration at University of Illinois at Chicago, said the property tax issue is caused by several factors. Merriman said county governments, city governments and school districts all play a part.

Merriman said the city's taxes have gone up due to a plan that gradually increases the tax to deal with a pension problem and other fiscal problems.

Cook County Assessor Fritz Kaegi said the change in the property tax bills is because the system was broken before he came into office.

Merriman agrees.

“The assessment system was out of whack in that it assessed higher value homes too low, lower value homes too high,” he said. “And that’s being with better assessment practices.”

One Family's Story

Attila and Candice Farberg have lived in their Wilmette home since 1984. They have seen their property taxes modestly go up 2% to 3% to 6% over the years. They’ve even gotten refunds. But they told WGN News it has never been like this.

“The word legalized robbery comes to mind,” Attila Farberg said.

The Farberg’s tax bill went up $5,000 to a little over $21,000 in one year.

“The assessed value went up 30.79%” Attila Farberg said. “And the estimated market value went from $754,000 to a hair under a million.”

They said don’t believe their house is worth a million dollars.

The Farbergs said they want to pay their fair share but this all at once and 30% is unfair.

Elsewhere in Cook County

Some critics of this system have said that it unfairly taxes homeowners more than corporations. Merriman said this is not the case — businesses are valued at 25% of market values, whereas home and rental properties are valued at 10% in Cook County.

Others have expressed concern that booming neighborhoods, like West Loop, will drive out residents with the high property taxes when they purchased the property so low. Merriman said that it is a problem for cash, but now these residents have an asset that is worth a lot more.

On Tuesday, the Chicago Tribune reported that Chicago Cubs co-owner and Wilmette resident, Todd Ricketts, paid a property tax based on a much older and smaller house that he tore down to make a new home. This likely gave him a huge discount that may have totaled tens of thousands of dollars over the years.

Merriman said that the Cook County Assessor's Office should not have missed this issue. He said Rickets should have filed building permits and sent them to the assessor for a reassessment. This did not happen, and it is hard to know how widespread this problem is.

Merriman did say that the assessor's office is understaffed, and the system could probably be fairer if they had more resources to work with.

[PAF]

Not home owners. None of us are home owners...just peasants squatting on the King's Land at the whim of the local liege-lord.



Yep. There's like only a handful of people left nationwide who really cares about that issue. That I know of, anyway.

Nationalism, and all.

[Anti Federalist]

Yep. There's like only a handful of people left nationwide who really cares about that issue. That I know of, anyway.

Nationalism, and all.

How come I care about it, and I am the very textbook definition of a nationalist (even worse, a white nationalist)?

Chicago is just the opposite, the textbook definition of diversity and multi-culti Kum By Ya-ism.

How is importing millions more people like that, all looking to vote for more government, plush-bottom city jobs, handouts and reparations gonna make this situation better?

[Swordsmyth]

Yep. There's like only a handful of people left nationwide who really cares about that issue. That I know of, anyway.

Nationalism, and all.
That's nonsense, Nationalism has no connection to property tax.
I'm one of the most anti-property tax people you could ever find.

[PAF]

How come I care about it, and I am the very textbook definition of a nationalist (even worse, a white nationalist)?

Chicago is just the opposite, the textbook definition of diversity and multi-culti Kum By Ya-ism.

How is importing millions more people like that, all looking to vote for more government, plush-bottom city jobs, handouts and reparations gonna make this situation better?

You outta be tar'd & feathr'd!!!

Ok, seriously, AF, I'm a little whole lot confused why you picked Anti-Federalist, the very textbook definition of nationalist that you are. What gives?

[Swordsmyth]

You outta be tar'd & feathr'd!!!

Ok, seriously, AF, I'm a little whole lot confused why you picked Anti-Federalist, the very textbook definition of nationalist that you are. What gives?
The Anti-Federalists were Nationalists, they just were Nationalists at the colonial/state level instead of the Federal level. (but they were even somewhat nationalist at the Federal level)

[PAF]

That's nonsense, Nationalism has no connection to property tax.
I'm one of the most anti-property tax people you could ever find.

No, that's nonsense. You are one of the most statist people I can ever find. Who would build the schools that you graduated(?) from!

[PAF]

The Anti-Federalists were Nationalists, they just were Nationalists at the colonial/state level instead of the Federal level. (but they were even somewhat nationalist at the Federal level)

Wait...huh? Oh nevermind, I undermean what you stand.

[Swordsmyth]

No, that's nonsense. You are one of the most statist people I can ever find. Who would build the schools that you graduated(?) from!
I was homeschooled.

And there are many other kinds of taxes that can be used to fund legitimate government functions. (which doesn't include education)

[Swordsmyth]

Wait...huh? Oh nevermind, I undermean what you stand.
The only reason we think of states as a region of a country is because of the union, the word "state"=the word nation, each state was its own nation.

[PAF]

The only reason we think of states as a region of a country is because of the union, the word "state"=the word nation, each state was its own nation.

6638

[Swordsmyth]

6638

Is he swimming in de Nile?

[PAF]

How come I care about it, and I am the very textbook definition of a nationalist (even worse, a white nationalist)?

Chicago is just the opposite, the textbook definition of diversity and multi-culti Kum By Ya-ism.

How is importing millions more people like that, all looking to vote for more government, plush-bottom city jobs, handouts and reparations gonna make this situation better?


Blast from the past:


6639

6640

6641

[Swordsmyth]

Blast from the past:


6639

6640

6641
You keep telling me they come here and don't take welfare but that ending welfare will solve the problem.

:confused:

We have a right to keep them out and it doesn't require a police state, if we don't keep them out we will get a police state and a communist one at that.

[Anti Federalist]

You outta be tar'd & feathr'd!!!

Ok, seriously, AF, I'm a little whole lot confused why you picked Anti-Federalist, the very textbook definition of nationalist that you are. What gives?

I'm glad you asked...maybe Ender will take a look at this as well, since he likes to poke fun at my William Wallace avatar as well.

I don't know why though. Let's look briefly at William Wallace...what did he fight for? Cheap French goods? Hordes of Irish to work for potatoes to cut the grass at his castle?

No, he fought for a nation of his own, to overthrow foreign invaders in defense of his home and family.

He fought for a nation of Scots, for Scottish posterity, in a society run by Scots.

What is so out of line with Anti Federalism?

They believed the Constitution needed a Bill of Rights.
They believed the Constitution created a presidency so powerful that it would become a monarchy.
They believed the Constitution did too little with the courts and would create an out-of-control judiciary.
They believed that the national government would be too far away from the people and thus unresponsive to the needs of localities.
They believed the Constitution would abrogate, at least in part, the power of the states.

This government has done every one of those things, and failed in many other regards, just like the Anti Feds predicted, not the least of which, prevent and repel invasion, which the AoC at least was very clear on THAT point.

The Anti Feds were not opposed to state governments, they were opposed to an overpowering central government.

But even the greatest Anti Fed of them all, Patrick Henry, saw the power in unity when opposed to tyrants:

The distinctions between Virginians, Pennsylvanians, New Yorkers, and New Englanders are no more. I Am Not A Virginian, But An American!”
― Patrick Henry

He fought for the same reason William Wallace fought, for the same reason I fight, for freedom and for a place, a nation of my own, and my posterity.

So I don't see why my "handle" or avatar should be surprising.

[PAF]

On the North Side of Chicago, homeowners could see an 11% increase in their bill, while South Side homeowners could see a 1% increase.

These taxes are due August 1.

David Merriman, a professor of public administration at University of Illinois at Chicago, said the property tax issue is caused by several factors. Merriman said county governments, city governments and school districts all play a part.

Merriman said the city's taxes have gone up due to a plan that gradually increases the tax to deal with a pension problem and other fiscal problems.

Cook County Assessor Fritz Kaegi said the change in the property tax bills is because the system was broken before he came into office.

Merriman agrees.

“The assessment system was out of whack in that it assessed higher value homes too low, lower value homes too high,” he said. “And that’s being with better assessment practices.”

One Family's Story

Attila and Candice Farberg have lived in their Wilmette home since 1984. They have seen their property taxes modestly go up 2% to 3% to 6% over the years. They’ve even gotten refunds. But they told WGN News it has never been like this.

“The word legalized robbery comes to mind,” Attila Farberg said.

The Farberg’s tax bill went up $5,000 to a little over $21,000 in one year.

“The assessed value went up 30.79%” Attila Farberg said. “And the estimated market value went from $754,000 to a hair under a million.”

They said don’t believe their house is worth a million dollars.

The Farbergs said they want to pay their fair share but this all at once and 30% is unfair.

Elsewhere in Cook County

Some critics of this system have said that it unfairly taxes homeowners more than corporations. Merriman said this is not the case — businesses are valued at 25% of market values, whereas home and rental properties are valued at 10% in Cook County.

Others have expressed concern that booming neighborhoods, like West Loop, will drive out residents with the high property taxes when they purchased the property so low. Merriman said that it is a problem for cash, but now these residents have an asset that is worth a lot more.

On Tuesday, the Chicago Tribune reported that Chicago Cubs co-owner and Wilmette resident, Todd Ricketts, paid a property tax based on a much older and smaller house that he tore down to make a new home. This likely gave him a huge discount that may have totaled tens of thousands of dollars over the years.

Merriman said that the Cook County Assessor's Office should not have missed this issue. He said Rickets should have filed building permits and sent them to the assessor for a reassessment. This did not happen, and it is hard to know how widespread this problem is.

Merriman did say that the assessor's office is understaffed, and the system could probably be fairer if they had more resources to work with.


Looking for a solution: Maybe everybody in that area will work to initiate ballot issue voting. That's about the only way to bring things to the forefront so that all voters will understand.

[Swordsmyth]

I'm glad you asked...maybe @Ender (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=9064) will take a look at this as well, since he likes to poke fun at my William Wallace avatar as well.

I don't know why though. Let's look briefly at William Wallace...what did he fight for? Cheap French goods? Hordes of Irish to work for potatoes to cut the grass at his castle?

No, he fought for a nation of his own, to overthrow foreign invaders in defense of his home and family.

He fought for a nation of Scots, for Scottish posterity, in a society run by Scots.

What is so out of line with Anti Federalism?

They believed the Constitution needed a Bill of Rights.
They believed the Constitution created a presidency so powerful that it would become a monarchy.
They believed the Constitution did too little with the courts and would create an out-of-control judiciary.
They believed that the national government would be too far away from the people and thus unresponsive to the needs of localities.
They believed the Constitution would abrogate, at least in part, the power of the states.

This government has done every one of those things, and failed in many other regards, just like the Anti Feds predicted, not the least of which, prevent and repel invasion, which the AoC at least was very clear on THAT point.

The Anti Feds were not opposed to state governments, they were opposed to an overpowering central government.

But even the greatest Anti Fed of them all, Patrick Henry, saw the power in unity when opposed to tyrants:

The distinctions between Virginians, Pennsylvanians, New Yorkers, and New Englanders are no more. I Am Not A Virginian, But An American!”
― Patrick Henry

He fought for the same reason William Wallace fought, for the same reason I fight, for freedom and for a place, a nation of my own, and my posterity.

So I don't see why my "handle" or avatar should be surprising.

Leftarians are just as progressive as their totalitarian cousins, they continuously re-write history and slide every concept to its ultimate extreme in pursuit of a utopia that requires a new humanity with a changed nature.

[PAF]

I'm glad you asked...maybe Ender will take a look at this as well, since he likes to poke fun at my William Wallace avatar as well.

I don't know why though. Let's look briefly at William Wallace...what did he fight for? Cheap French goods? Hordes of Irish to work for potatoes to cut the grass at his castle?

No, he fought for a nation of his own, to overthrow foreign invaders in defense of his home and family.

He fought for a nation of Scots, for Scottish posterity, in a society run by Scots.

What is so out of line with Anti Federalism?

They believed the Constitution needed a Bill of Rights.
They believed the Constitution created a presidency so powerful that it would become a monarchy.
They believed the Constitution did too little with the courts and would create an out-of-control judiciary.
They believed that the national government would be too far away from the people and thus unresponsive to the needs of localities.
They believed the Constitution would abrogate, at least in part, the power of the states.

This government has done every one of those things, and failed in many other regards, just like the Anti Feds predicted, not the least of which, prevent and repel invasion, which the AoC at least was very clear on THAT point.

The Anti Feds were not opposed to state governments, they were opposed to an overpowering central government.

But even the greatest Anti Fed of them all, Patrick Henry, saw the power in unity when opposed to tyrants:

The distinctions between Virginians, Pennsylvanians, New Yorkers, and New Englanders are no more. I Am Not A Virginian, But An American!”
― Patrick Henry

He fought for the same reason William Wallace fought, for the same reason I fight, for freedom and for a place, a nation of my own, and my posterity.

So I don't see why my "handle" or avatar should be surprising.

I don't know. Maybe it's because instead of having the State of Texas worry about it, or individual property and business owners worry about, or local communities worry about, or counties worry about, which are ALL local solutions, you seem to fine with the FED taking control of it to solve your problem.

Because, you like my signature so much :D

[Swordsmyth]

I don't know. Maybe it's because instead of having the State of Texas worry about it, or individual property and business owners worry about, or local communities worry about, or counties worry about, which are ALL local solutions, you seem to fine with the FED taking control of it to solve your problem.

Because, you like my signature so much :D
Immigration IS a Federal issue as is invasion.

[Anti Federalist]

I don't know. Maybe it's because instead of having the State of Texas worry about it, or individual property and business owners worry about, or local communities worry about, or counties worry about, which are ALL local solutions, you seem to fine with the FED taking control of it to solve your problem.

Because, you like my signature so much :D

The FedGov should do it's job, and protect the Republic against invasion.

That was the whole purpose of it, and more importantly, the AoC before it, which should have just remained in place, all things considered.

To overcome, and yes, override local issues in the event of invasion.

But, as they were in so many other cases, the Anti Feds are right once again, in predicting the failure of the central government under the CONstitution, to do it's job.

“What then may we expect if the new constitution be adopted as it now stands? The great will struggle for power, honor and wealth; the poor become a prey to avarice, insolence and oppression. And while some are studying to supplant their neighbors, and others striving to keep their stations, one villain will wink at the oppression of another, the people be fleeced, and the public business neglected. From despotism and tyranny good Lord deliver us.” ― Anti-Federalist 12

[PAF]

Leftarians are just as progressive as their totalitarian cousins, they continuously re-write history and slide every concept to its ultimate extreme in pursuit of a utopia that requires a new humanity with a changed nature.

It is not left versus right, because all of you statists are the same. It is liberty versus tyranny, which you have no concept of.

Remember, once pen hit the paper, that is when everything started to really run amuck. You are trying to hang on to something that has been sliding us into tyranny for well over a hundred years.

I figure, if you are so hell bent, and AOC is so hell bent, we may as well start from scratch and work to get things right.

[Swordsmyth]

I don't know. Maybe it's because instead of having the State of Texas worry about it, or individual property and business owners worry about, or local communities worry about, or counties worry about, which are ALL local solutions, you seem to fine with the FED taking control of it to solve your problem.

Because, you like my signature so much :D
You are also being disingenuous, you oppose immigration control at any level.
If we proposed to devolve immigration down to the states (which would include limiting immigration from other states) you would still screetch that we were evil NAZIs.

[Swordsmyth]

It is not left versus right, because all of you statists are the same. It is liberty versus tyranny, which you have no concept of.

Remember, once pen hit the paper, that is when everything started to really run amuck. You are trying to hang on to something that has been sliding us into tyranny for well over a hundred years.

I figure, if you are so hell bent, and AOC is so hell bent, we may as well start from scratch and work to get things right.
I am trying to hang onto something that has slowed the slide into tyranny to be slower than any other country on earth and reform it to reverse the slide, you are trying to tear it down and let the tyranny that has infected the rest of the world flood in.

It is definitely left vs. right, the right recognizes that ideals must cope with reality while the left daydreams about a utopia that requires a new humanity with a changed nature.

[PAF]

The FedGov should do it's job, and protect the Republic against invasion.

But, as they were in so many other cases, the Anti Feds are right once again, in predicting the failure of the central government under the CONstitution, to do it's job.

“What then may we expect if the new constitution be adopted as it now stands? The great will struggle for power, honor and wealth; the poor become a prey to avarice, insolence and oppression. And while some are studying to supplant their neighbors, and others striving to keep their stations, one villain will wink at the oppression of another, the people be fleeced, and the public business neglected. From despotism and tyranny good Lord deliver us.” ― George Clinton, Robert Yates, Samuel Bryan, Anti-Federalist Papers

I'm down with that. Only this time, if we are to re-write the Natural list of 10, put a clause at the end stating criminal prosecution for anybody who attempts to violate them. That is what the statists who wrote the Bill of Rights intentionally left out.

[Anti Federalist]

Because, you like my signature so much :D

I do, very much so.

Sadly, the vast majority of people do not.

And, again, I fail to see how importing millions more who do not as well, will improve the situation.

[Anti Federalist]

I'm down with that. Only this time, if we are to re-write the Natural list of 10, put a clause at the end stating criminal prosecution for anybody who attempts to violate them. That is what the statists who wrote the Bill of Rights intentionally left out.

Yes, I agree.

Just like cops should be held personally liable when they beat someone down or kill them with impunity.

[Brian4Liberty]

Blast from the past:


6639

6640

6641

You said you do not oppose open borders IF we end the Welfare State. Emphasis on the “IF” was yours.

So when did that change? Now you support open borders, but the welfare state has only grown much worse, with no end in sight.

[PAF]

I am trying to hang onto something that has slowed the slide into tyranny to be slower than any other country on earth and reform it to reverse the slide, you are trying to tear it down and let the tyranny that has infected the rest of the world flood in.

It is definitely left vs. right, the right recognizes that ideals must cope with reality while the left daydreams about a utopia that requires a new humanity with a changed nature.

Swordy, the problems go waaaayyyyy deeper than you are willing to admit. You can blame lefties (for watching state run TV and not told the truth), you can blame righties (for watching state run TV and not told the truth), and even the immigrants with dirt floors who probably don't even watch MSFOXNBC. The fact is, the MIC/Bankers control every aspect of our lives, and the politicians in the WH who get bought off and allow it to happen.

There is no way in hell millions of people in this country who have mouths to feed are going to quit their jobs to slow or stop the MIC, it's contractors, manufacturing plants and programmers. The book of Revelations talks about nations coming to end, and soon enough, with or without my help, this nation will end.

[PAF]

You said you do not oppose open borders IF we end the Welfare State. Emphasis on the “IF” was yours.

So when did that change? Now you support open borders, but the welfare state has only grown much worse, with no end in sight.

What ever gave you that impression? My position has never changed. The only reason the welfare state has grown much worse is because the folks at the FED level use it as a political tool. The politicians and the MIC will look for and create any set of circumstances necessary to profit off the taxpayer.

[Danke]

Remember when PAF said he was leaving RPFs for good? Not a man of his word.

[Swordsmyth]

Swordy, the problems go waaaayyyyy deeper than you are willing to admit. You can blame lefties (for watching state run TV and not told the truth), you can blame righties (for watching state run TV and not told the truth), and even the immigrants with dirt floors who probably don't even watch MSFOXNBC. The fact is, the MIC/Bankers control every aspect of our lives, and the politicians in the WH who get bought off and allow it to happen.

There is no way in hell millions of people in this country who have mouths to feed are going to quit their jobs to slow or stop the MIC, it's contractors, manufacturing plants and programmers. The book of Revelations talks about nations coming to end, and soon enough, with or without my help, this nation will end.
:sleeping:

We can make progress if people like you would stop trying to destroy everything on purpose, with GOD's help we will in spite of you.
This Nation will end in GOD's own good time but we are responsible to make it as good as we can until he chooses the time to end it.

[Swordsmyth]

Remember when PAF said he was leaving RPFs for good? Not a man of his word.
He promised to leave the country too.

[Brian4Liberty]

What ever gave you that impression? My position has never changed. The only reason the welfare state has grown much worse is because the folks at the FED level use it as a political tool. The politicians and the MIC will look for and create any set of circumstances necessary to profit off the taxpayer.

So you oppose open borders?

[PAF]

He promised to leave the country too.

Under your new world order of statism it won't matter much where I go, the MIC will know exactly where I am. But yeah, I look forward to umbrellas in my drinks ;-)

[Swordsmyth]

Under your new world order of statism it won't matter much where I go, the MIC will know exactly where I am. But yeah, I look forward to umbrellas in my drinks ;-)
Under your open borders it wouldn't much matter if I stay here, you are inviting the world to come and impose communism on me.

[Swordsmyth]

Under your new world order of statism it won't matter much where I go, the MIC will know exactly where I am. But yeah, I look forward to umbrellas in my drinks ;-)
The NWO is globalist and in favor of open borders, just like you.

[PAF]

So you oppose open borders?

I detest Welfare in any and all forms. I believe in the right to travel freely as a God given (not Fed-given) right. I firmly believe in my signature which is the bed-rock of all others rights. I have been on this forum long enough for you to know that.

Why you guys keep trying to come at me for what this out of control government is doing to all of us I have no clue why.

[PAF]

Under your open borders it wouldn't much matter if I stay here, you are inviting the world to come and impose communism on me.

Solution for you: Build a dome over your head and put a fence around it. Do it on your own dime. I'm sick of paying for your mistakes and the Fed's intentional ones. IE Welfare.

[Brian4Liberty]

You said [in the image you just posted] you do not oppose open borders IF we end the Welfare State. Emphasis on the “IF” was yours.

So when did that change? Now you support open borders, but the welfare state has only grown much worse, with no end in sight.


What ever gave you that impression? ...

Perhaps I wasn’t clear enough. You said that in the image you posted.

[Swordsmyth]

Solution for you: Build a dome over your head and put a fence around it. Do it on your own dime. I'm sick of paying for your mistakes and the Fed's intentional ones. IE Welfare.
So your communist buddies can bomb it and throw me in the GULAG?

No thanks, take your fantasies with you and leave the country as you promised.

[Swordsmyth]

I detest Welfare in any and all forms. I believe in the right to travel freely as a God given (not Fed-given) right.
There isn't a right to enter another Nation's territory without permission.




Why you guys keep trying to come at me for what this out of control government is doing to all of us I have no clue why.
Because you are helping them.

[PAF]

Perhaps I wasn’t clear enough. You said that in the image you posted.

Rather than to advocate keeping Welfare/Incentives and closing the border, and in light of the MIC/DHS/TSA plan to implement biometric ID here in the make believe "Land of the Free Home of the Brave" (I have several threads on it) I am advocating that we get down to the root of the problem and call for an end to Welfare/Incentives.

I know that is not the populist attitude around this RPF, but somebody has to make a solid stand for freedom, liberty and fiscal responsibility.

[Brian4Liberty]

You said you do not oppose open borders IF we end the Welfare State. Emphasis on the “IF” was yours.

So when did that change? Now you support open borders, but the welfare state has only grown much worse, with no end in sight.


Rather than to advocate keeping Welfare/Incentives and closing the border, and in light of the MIC/DHS/TSA plan to implement biometric ID here in the make believe "Land of the Free Home of the Brave" (I have several threads on it) I am advocating that we get down to the root of the problem and call for an end to Welfare/Incentives.

I know that is not the populist attitude around this RPF, but somebody has to make a solid stand for freedom, liberty and fiscal responsibility.

I don’t know that anyone here disagrees about ending the welfare state.

Your disagreements with people seem to center on immigration. Thus the logic of the statement in the image you posted would mean that you do not support open borders until the welfare state is ended. That has been a very common position among libertarians for a long time.

You are being evasive, so either you changed your mind, as many seem to have done, or you were just throwing that out there when you originally posted that (on the Daily Paul, I assume).

[phill4paul]

How come I care about it, and I am the very textbook definition of a nationalist (even worse, a white nationalist)?

Chicago is just the opposite, the textbook definition of diversity and multi-culti Kum By Ya-ism.

How is importing millions more people like that, all looking to vote for more government, plush-bottom city jobs, handouts and reparations gonna make this situation better?

If you work your ass off, pay mortgage, and property taxes, you owe reparations to those who don't. It's only fair.

[PAF]

I don’t know that anyone here disagrees about ending the welfare state.

Your disagreements with people seem to center on immigration. Thus the logic of the statement in the image you posted would mean that you do not support open borders until the welfare state is ended. That has been a very common position among libertarians for a long time.

You are being evasive, so either you changed your mind, as many seem to have done, or you were just throwing that out there when you originally posted that (on the Daily Paul, I assume).

I am tired of explaining my solid position on this forum and having a few select others continuously twist and/or put words into my mouth, over and over again. For passers by visiting this forum, I do not want the wrong impression taken about me, since I am still politically active. That, I understand, comes with the territory.

I was very well grounded back before and into the Daily Paul days. Since those days, bills and information came to light, which enabled me to see the bigger picture of what this government is trying to do in order to grow itself and fund the special interest. Perhaps back in those days I had hoped to see a positive change in government, but since then have come to the conclusion that the government has grown so large and powerful, the only way to overcome it is for people en mass to come to a discovery, one of which Ron Paul and others, including me, are trying to do.

Government solutions to government created problems ALWAYS leads to growth of government.

[Swordsmyth]

the only way to overcome it is for people en mass to come to a discovery
That will never happen, there will never be a New Soviet Anarchist Man, we have to make progress incrementally just like our enemies did and that means doing damage control by keeping out the invaders our enemies intend to use against us.

[aGameOfThrones]

A property tax increase or decrease should be voted solely by property owners

[Swordsmyth]

A property tax increase or decrease should be voted solely by property owners
That's if you allow property taxes at all.

Local governments should have a bicameral legislature with one house voted on only by property owners and the other half by non-property owners.

[Anti Federalist]

There is no way in hell millions of people in this country who have mouths to feed are going to quit their jobs to slow or stop the MIC, it's contractors, manufacturing plants and programmers. The book of Revelations talks about nations coming to end, and soon enough, with or without my help, this nation will end.

Ahhh, that's the insight into your line of thinking I had been looking for.

[Swordsmyth]

Ahhh, that's the insight into your line of thinking I had been looking for.
Those who want to bring on the destruction instead of letting GOD take care of it are as bad as those that want to create a millennial paradise instead of waiting for GOD.
And they are often one and the same.

Heaven save us from madmen with GOD complexes.

[UWDude]

The book of Revelations talks about nations coming to end, and soon enough, with or without my help, this nation will end.

If you truly wish to live out the rest of your life in hell, I can arrange that.
You know as well as I do the end of America will not mean a better world, in any way.
Deep down you know it is true.

But know that your damnation will see America continue on.
With or without your help. Because your help does not count for anything.
And America continuing on, will compound your agony. America will exist when you draw your last breath.
I can assure you of that, because America has my help.
In fact, everything you do in life is counterproductive to your aims.
Because you actually have no clue what your aims are.

You think you do. But you have no idea what happiness is.
Is it Pussy? Paper? Poetry?

No it's purpose.

All this time on this planet, and still no purpose.
It isn't America keeping you from finding your purpose.
It's laziness.

Politics can not keep a man from finding his purpose, only laziness can.
Prison, can not keep a man from finding his purpose, only laziness can.
Posting on these forums is leisure, disguised as purpose.

Are you changing anything by posting here? Do you really believe that?
Resist me? Go ahead. Go ahead and try to tell me your are doing one iota of good by posting here.
Let's hear your excuses for your laziness, and why you are here, typing out useless words, and not fulfilling your purpose.

A purpose, mind you, you clearly have not even started, in your entire life, except maybe one or two half-assed attempts, before you determined it was too hard or impossible.

(P.S. your purpose is clearly not politics, you suck at it)

[Anti Globalist]

Wonder how many of Illinois's problems would go away if Cook County didn't exist.

[Superfluous Man]

Not home owners. None of us are home owners...just peasants squatting on the King's Land at the whim of the local liege-lord.


But is this not exactly what you support? At least when it comes to immigration policy.

[Ender]

I'm glad you asked...maybe Ender will take a look at this as well, since he likes to poke fun at my William Wallace avatar as well.

I don't know why though. Let's look briefly at William Wallace...what did he fight for? Cheap French goods? Hordes of Irish to work for potatoes to cut the grass at his castle?

No, he fought for a nation of his own, to overthrow foreign invaders in defense of his home and family.

He fought for a nation of Scots, for Scottish posterity, in a society run by Scots.

What is so out of line with Anti Federalism?
å
They believed the Constitution needed a Bill of Rights.
They believed the Constitution created a presidency so powerful that it would become a monarchy.
They believed the Constitution did too little with the courts and would create an out-of-control judiciary.
They believed that the national government would be too far away from the people and thus unresponsive to the needs of localities.
They believed the Constitution would abrogate, at least in part, the power of the states.

This government has done every one of those things, and failed in many other regards, just like the Anti Feds predicted, not the least of which, prevent and repel invasion, which the AoC at least was very clear on THAT point.

The Anti Feds were not opposed to state governments, they were opposed to an overpowering central government.

But even the greatest Anti Fed of them all, Patrick Henry, saw the power in unity when opposed to tyrants:

The distinctions between Virginians, Pennsylvanians, New Yorkers, and New Englanders are no more. I Am Not A Virginian, But An American!”
― Patrick Henry

He fought for the same reason William Wallace fought, for the same reason I fight, for freedom and for a place, a nation of my own, and my posterity.

So I don't see why my "handle" or avatar should be surprising.

Dude- I was NOT making fun of you- I was reminding you- and everyone- of Wallace's importance & what he did.

And Wallace was not fighting "immigration". He was fighting the Empire of the day taking his country. Today's Empire is doing the same damn thing but if people resist, we call them communists /socialists & employ coups & total take-overs of their countries & resources. The Anti-Feds were right on. The same PTB have also ripped the original CONstitution to shreds while slowly enslaving the people so they accept it & think they are free.

Immigration is NOT the problem- it is a ruse to keep your eye off the mark. Ironic how everyone here talks continually about the Deep State etc but still blames them dirty immigrants on any problem. A perfect example is this thread- how property taxes are now the fault of immigrants.

It is not.

It is the fault of Americans believing everything they're taught & told & never coming to a full understanding of what true freedom really means and what their personal responsibility is in keeping it. It's so much easier to point the finger at someone who doesn't look like you & blame them.

Of course, hate & division is also part of this planned ruse. We see it all over this forum.

All the insults, name-calling, & finger-pointing at someone who doesn't agree on a subject, no matter how small or insignificant is mind-blowing. And every single issue goes back to immigration for a few of the biggest insulters. Creating division seems to be part of their ideology.

And, of course there will be the regulars jumping in to scream that I- and anyone who believes in true freedom are open-border advocates- and take the subject of this post right back to the hate & division category.

For the record- and zillionth time:

I believe in free travel but absolutely no incentives- people should be able to come & work or spend money, but NO free stuff or privileges, a reasonable path to citizenship, and REAL capitalism & free enterprise. End the WoD & WoT, bring the military home, and mind our own business.

[Anti Federalist]

Dude- I was NOT making fun of you- I was reminding you- and everyone- of Wallace's importance & what he did.

And Wallace was not fighting "immigration". He was fighting the Empire of the day taking his country. Today's Empire is doing the same damn thing but if people resist, we call them communists /socialists & employ coups & total take-overs of their countries & resources. The Anti-Feds were right on. The same PTB have also ripped the original CONstitution to shreds while slowly enslaving the people so they accept it & think they are free.

I know...I just wanted to have you chime in here.

But the bottom line remains that Wallace fought to free Scotland from outside invaders, for the purpose of creating something the Scots had never had: a nation and home for themselves.

What we are seeing at the border right now is an invasion: a well organized attack, using people, armed with nothing but the ability to use our our sense of pity and "Christian" charity against us, to seize and occupy us.

If it were Welsh longbowmen or Panzer tanks rolling across the border, people would recognize the threat, and (almost) to a man respond, vigorously.

But it's not, and that is WHY the PTB use dirt poor peasants as the latest weapon.

Deadly effective and cheap as hell.


Immigration is NOT the problem- it is a ruse to keep your eye off the mark. Ironic how everyone here talks continually about the Deep State etc but still blames them dirty immigrants on any problem. A perfect example is this thread- how property taxes are now the fault of immigrants.

I never said that. What I said was, the situation will not be improved by bringing millions more who support the ideas that that got us into this mess into the country.

And it will not. You know it as well as I do.

Exhibit A: California, where the Bolshevik Super Majorities, put into power by the migrant hordes that have started to vote have now approved "free" healthcare for illegal migrant invaders.


It is the fault of Americans believing everything they're taught & told & never coming to a full understanding of what true freedom really means and what their personal responsibility is in keeping it. It's so much easier to point the finger at someone who doesn't look like you & blame them.

The two are separate issues. My understanding of the migrant invasion and my opposition to it take two forms, the one right now short term: cease all immigration from anywhere, so we can sort shit out. That junkie fuck from Trashcanistan that killed all my brother riders up in NH looks just like me (a Caucasian of western European stock). I want him thrown the fuck out of my country as well.


Of course, hate & division is also part of this planned ruse. We see it all over this forum.

All the insults, name-calling, & finger-pointing at someone who doesn't agree on a subject, no matter how small or insignificant is mind-blowing. And every single issue goes back to immigration for a few of the biggest insulters. Creating division seems to be part of their ideology.

And, of course there will be the regulars jumping in to scream that I- and anyone who believes in true freedom are open-border advocates- and take the subject of this post right back to the hate & division category.

I don't see hate here, or at least not from me, directed towards other freedom folks like you.

I see plenty of hate directed at me from the New Bolsheviks.

That's why I have taken a defensive posture...I am not kidding, these people, were they to come into a great deal of power (which is just sitting there to be picked up, thanks to the expansion of the police state) would kill me.


For the record- and zillionth time:

I believe in free travel but absolutely no incentives- people should be able to come & work or spend money, but NO free stuff or privileges, a reasonable path to citizenship, and REAL capitalism & free enterprise. End the WoD & WoT, bring the military home, and mind our own business.

And I reply, for the zillionth time:

You will NEVER achieve that if you continue to allow millions who are opposed those ideas into the country on top of the millions already here that are opposed to it.

All you're going to get, at best, is a failed narco state like Mexico with all its corruption, misery and a murder rate three times what ours is.

At worst, you'll get a Rwandan or Cambodian style genocide.

If the ship is sinking, you start the pumps AND patch the hole.

Both...not one or the other...to do that, or even worse, nothing at all, ensures you will sink.

[Anti Federalist]

But is this not exactly what you support? At least when it comes to immigration policy.

OK, I'll bite...tell me how.

[TheTexan]

we have to make progress incrementally

Sounds reasonable :up:

[Ender]

I know...I just wanted to have you chime in here.

But the bottom line remains that Wallace fought to free Scotland from outside invaders, for the purpose of creating something the Scots had never had: a nation and home for themselves.

What we are seeing at the border right now is an invasion: a well organized attack, using people, armed with nothing but the ability to use our our sense of pity and "Christian" charity against us, to seize and occupy us.

If it were Welsh longbowmen or Panzer tanks rolling across the border, people would recognize the threat, and (almost) to a man respond, vigorously.

But it's not, and that is WHY the PTB use dirt poor peasants as the latest weapon.

Deadly effective and cheap as hell.



I never said that. What I said was, the situation will not be improved by bringing millions more who support the ideas that that got us into this mess into the country.

And it will not. You know it as well as I do.

Exhibit A: California, where the Bolshevik Super Majorities, put into power by the migrant hordes that have started to vote have now approved "free" healthcare for illegal migrant invaders.



The two are separate issues. My understanding of the migrant invasion and my opposition to it take two forms, the one right now short term: cease all immigration from anywhere, so we can sort $#@! out. That junkie $#@! from Trashcanistan that killed all my brother riders up in NH looks just like me (a Caucasian of western European stock). I want him thrown the $#@! out of my country as well.



I don't see hate here, or at least not from me, directed towards other freedom folks like you.

I see plenty of hate directed at me from the New Bolsheviks.

That's why I have taken a defensive posture...I am not kidding, these people, were they to come into a great deal of power (which is just sitting there to be picked up, thanks to the expansion of the police state) would kill me.



And I reply, for the zillionth time:

You will NEVER achieve that if you continue to allow millions who are opposed those ideas into the country on top of the millions already here that are opposed to it.

All you're going to get, at best, is a failed narco state like Mexico with all its corruption, misery and a murder rate three times what ours is.

At worst, you'll get a Rwandan or Cambodian style genocide.

If the ship is sinking, you start the pumps AND patch the hole.

Both...not one or the other...to do that, or even worse, nothing at all, ensures you will sink.

Now THIS is a reasonable response. Thanks AF, & I do not include you with the haters- you are still one of my fav members.

I'm running out the door right now- will get back later with my POV.

[tod evans]

The politicians and the MIC will look for and create any set of circumstances necessary to profit off the taxpayer.

Wise words there!

[tod evans]

Wonder how many of Illinois's problems would go away if Cook County didn't exist.

You'd need to nix St.Clair, Jersey, Madison and Clinton counties too....

Then Illinois would be just fine..

95% of the land owners agree with this too.. (Acreage not $$)

[Cleaner44]

No, that's nonsense. You are one of the most statist people I can ever find. Who would build the schools that you graduated(?) from!

Muh roads!

[Stratovarious]

I have been yelling NO PROPERTY TAX for primary residence anywhere in the US
for over 15 years , being charged property tax on your home is literally renting
from the government.

Anyone that doubts this, stop paying the government's property tax and see
how long it takes them to evict you from your home.

Tax everything , as you already do, but gtfo of our homes.

[Superfluous Man]

OK, I'll bite...tell me how.

The whole premise of immigration restrictionism is that all the land within the borders of the USA is the property of the federal government. We who ostensibly own our properties are really just squatters who have no right to decide for ourselves whom we want to welcome onto it or sell it to. That's for the feds to decide.

[brushfire]

I have been yelling NO PROPERTY TAX for primary residence anywhere in the US
for over 15 years , being charged property tax on your home is literally renting
from the government.

Anyone that doubts this, stop paying the government's property tax and see
how long it takes them to evict you from your home.

Tax everything , as you already do, but gtfo of our homes.

I know, crazy right?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjV2autXVTc



The interesting thing how the tax is determined. There's all sorts of assessment schemes that make baseball rules look straight forward.

Once their assessment scheme determines the value of your home, they tax you accordingly, and then apply your tax dollars to things that have nothing to do with your residence or the burden you put on the government. For example, if you add another room to your house, and the value goes up, you are taxed more - even if your occupancy stays the same, with the same number of cars, the same consumers of water, the same refuse disposal, the same land ownership...

Meanwhile, I can have 10 fking kids in the same 1 room house, and there's no tax increase. I'm effectively putting additional road/resource/education/police burdens on society with my 10 offspring, yet without consequence.

Also, what if I choose to opt out of a government service (i.e. government education). If I homeschool or send my children to private school, my taxes dont go down. In fact, I'll have to pay a fee to allow my children access to the government school gym - even though I pay the tax to maintain the government school.

If I'm retired in IL, or I run a church, I dont have to pay the same property tax. Again - WTF? My household is a not-for-profit. We live there, I make a living to support my household - my income is equal exchange for the labor/service I provide - there is no profit?


Its a "free country" - free healthcare, free education, free government services, free roads. A "free country" doesn't come free ya know - ask the tax payers.

[Stratovarious]

I know, crazy right?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjV2autXVTc



The interesting thing how the tax is determined. There's all sorts of assessment schemes that make baseball rules look straight forward.

Once their assessment scheme determines the value of your home, they tax you accordingly, and then apply your tax dollars to things that have nothing to do with your residence or the burden you put on the government. For example, if you add another room to your house, and the value goes up, you are taxed more - even if your occupancy stays the same, with the same number of cars, the same consumers of water, the same refuse disposal, the same land ownership...

Meanwhile, I can have 10 fking kids in the same 1 room house, and there's no tax increase. I'm effectively putting additional road/resource/education/police burdens on society with my 10 offspring, yet without consequence.

Also, what if I choose to opt out of a government service (i.e. government education). If I homeschool or send my children to private school, my taxes dont go down. In fact, I'll have to pay a fee to allow my children access to the government school gym - even though I pay the tax to maintain the government school.

If I'm retired in IL, or I run a church, I dont have to pay the same property tax. Again - WTF? My household is a not-for-profit. We live there, I make a living to support my household - my income is equal exchange for the labor/service I provide - there is no profit?


Its a "free country" - free healthcare, free education, free government services, free roads. A "free country" doesn't come free ya know - ask the tax payers.

Great points, if you take care of your own they screw ya' .
If you improve the neighborhood with upgrades and awesome trees etc, they tax the sht out of
them.
''...assessment schemes that make baseball rules look straight forward...''
ha ha.........fact.......

[TheTexan]

The whole premise of immigration restrictionism is that all the land within the borders of the USA is the property of the federal government. We who ostensibly own our properties are really just squatters who have no right to decide for ourselves whom we want to welcome onto it or sell it to. That's for the feds to decide.

Now you're getting it!! :up:

[Anti Federalist]

The whole premise of immigration restrictionism is that all the land within the borders of the USA is the property of the federal government. We who ostensibly own our properties are really just squatters who have no right to decide for ourselves whom we want to welcome onto it or sell it to. That's for the feds to decide.

Sure you do.

Just sign form I-864 (https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/fiance-marriage-visa-book/chapter8-5.html) and bring as many into your home as wish.

I wonder how many Christian Collapsatarians have done that?

[Anti Federalist]

The whole premise of immigration restrictionism is that all the land within the borders of the USA is the property of the federal government. We who ostensibly own our properties are really just squatters who have no right to decide for ourselves whom we want to welcome onto it or sell it to. That's for the feds to decide.

Sure you do.

Just sign form I-864 (https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/fiance-marriage-visa-book/chapter8-5.html) and bring as many into your home as wish.

I wonder how many Christian Collapsatarians have done that?

[PAF]

Sure you do.

Just sign form I-864 (https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/fiance-marriage-visa-book/chapter8-5.html) and bring as many into your home as wish.

I wonder how many Christian Collapsatarians have done that?

You are EQUATING pro right to travel freely, pro private/business property and contract rights, anti government solutions to government created problems, with collapsatarian losertarian standing in line with cases of I-864 forms handing them out like candy.

Whose side are you really on? Because you sure as hell are not on my side, expecting government to fix my problems by further restricting my rights and taxing me to death. Certainly when you know that it is the military contractors who are turning their attention from overseas to domestic.

Every presidency republican and democrat has its own "crisis". I am not a betting man but I would bet 10 to 1 if everything government ever said was completely ignored, most of the problems would vanish.

[Brian4Liberty]

The whole premise of immigration restrictionism is that all the land within the borders of the USA is the property of the federal government. We who ostensibly own our properties are really just squatters who have no right to decide for ourselves whom we want to welcome onto it or sell it to. That's for the feds to decide.

No, it is “providing for the common defense”.

[PAF]

No, it is “providing for the common defense”.

Yes. Another $4.6 Billion additional. We losertarians scream hip hip hooray. Keep those invitations coming, the loss of liberty is indeed "for the common defense". MIC loves that line "for the common defense".

[euphemia]

Maybe it would be a creative solution to move out and write the deed over to the mayor. She would suddenly be in the hole for a truckload of money. If several people did that...

[PAF]

Maybe it would be a creative solution to move out and write the deed over to the mayor. She would suddenly be in the hole for a truckload of money. If several people did that...

If they all got off of their own asses they could fight back. Perhaps issue voting at that level so that voters would know what the specific issues are regardless of their "party".

[Brian4Liberty]

Yes. Another $4.6 Billion additional. We losertarians scream hip hip hooray. Keep those invitations coming, the loss of liberty is indeed "for the common defense". MIC loves that line "for the common defense".

Ron Paul always makes a point of distinguishing between true “defense” and global militarism. The MIC is a global entity.

The writers of the Constitution thought “common defense” worth explicitly agreeing upon and including. Yeah, that means nothing to anarchists.

[TheTexan]

You are EQUATING pro right to travel freely, pro private/business property and contract rights, anti government solutions to government created problems, with collapsatarian losertarian standing in line with cases of I-864 forms handing them out like candy.

Whose side are you really on? Because you sure as hell are not on my side, expecting government to fix my problems by further restricting my rights and taxing me to death. Certainly when you know that it is the military contractors who are turning their attention from overseas to domestic.

Every presidency republican and democrat has its own "crisis". I am not a betting man but I would bet 10 to 1 if everything government ever said was completely ignored, most of the problems would vanish.

Are you implying that Mexicans crossing the border is an imaginary crisis and it's been blown out of proportion for the sake of political expediency and is actually of little to no consequence relative to greater problems this country faces?

-rep

[TheTexan]

Yes. Another $4.6 Billion additional. We losertarians scream hip hip hooray. Keep those invitations coming, the loss of liberty is indeed "for the common defense". MIC loves that line "for the common defense".

If we don't collect taxes to provide for a common defense, our country would be invaded by people who want to collect taxes from us, and that would be bad.

[PAF]

Ron Paul always makes a point of distinguishing between true “defense” and global militarism. The MIC is a global entity.

The writers of the Constitution thought “common defense” worth explicitly agreeing upon and including. Yeah, that means nothing to anarchists.



Northrop Grumman has been confirmed as the winner of a three-and-a-half year, $95 million contract to develop the first two increments of a new biometric identification system for the Homeland Security Department.

DHS' future Homeland Advanced Recognition Technology system is intended as an upgrade over the current platform built in the 1990s for national security, law enforcement, immigration and intelligence functions.


Northrop Grumman Corporation (NYSE: NOC) is an American global aerospace and defense technology company. With over 85,000 employees and an annual revenue in excess of $30 billion, it is one of the world's largest weapons manufacturers and military technology providers. The firm ranks number 118 on the 2018 Fortune 500 list of America's largest corporations.

Northrop Grumman and its industry partners have won the Collier Trophy eight times, most recently for developing the X-47B, the first-ever unmanned, autonomous air system operating from an aircraft carrier. In 2004, Scaled Composites, a subsidiary of Northrop Grumman, won the Collier Trophy for the SpaceShipOne which was successful developed for the first privately financed, built, and flown space vehicle. Northrop Grumman currently leads the development of B-21 Raider, a long-range, stealth strategic bomber capable of delivering conventional and thermonuclear weapons; it will replace Northrop's own B-2 Spirit, the only known stealth bomber in the world.



Aerospace Systems

Aerospace Systems, headquartered in Redondo Beach, California, produces aircraft, spacecraft, high-energy laser systems and microelectronics for the U.S. and other nations.


Mission Systems

Mission Systems produces and maintains the AWACS aerial surveillance systems for the U.S., the United Kingdom, NATO, Japan, and others. Northrop Grumman is the prime contractor for the development and integration of the Air Force's $2-billion Multi-Platform Radar Technology Insertion Program. Northrop Grumman also supports the U.S. ballistic missile program, integrates various command, control and intelligence systems and provides technical and management services to governmental and military customers, all with an emphasis on cyber security.


Technology Services

The Technology Services sector headquartered in McNair, Virginia (with a Herndon mailing address), works on "the entire life cycle of civil and defense platforms and capabilities through a range of services". Vinnell, a Northrop Grumman subsidiary, provides training and communications for the military. In 2003, it landed a $48 million contract to train the Iraqi Army. In 2005 the company won a $2 billion contract with Virginia to overhaul most of the state's IT operations. Later that year, The United Kingdom paid $1.2 billion in a contract with the company to provide maintenance of the country's defensive radar.

Northrop Grumman performs various functions in the War on Drugs. The company sends planes to spray herbicides on suspected cocaine fields in Colombia and opium poppy fields in Afghanistan.


Innovation Systems

On June 7, 2018, the acquisition of Orbital ATK was completed and the former company was absorbed in Northrop Grumman as a new business sector called Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems. With this acquisition, Northrop Grumman got more involved in the space industry, which now includes the construction and launch of the Cygnus spacecraft. The firm is in the process of developing the Omega space launch vehicle, which will bring U.S. government's national security satellites into space.


Affiliated companies and partners

Remotec, a subsidiary, is a manufacturer of remote control vehicles for explosive ordnance disposal and hazardous material handling. A UK-based subsidiary, Park Air Systems, provides VHF and UHF ground-to-air communications systems for the civil and defense markets. Northrop Grumman has also worked closely with Antenna Associates, Inc., a manufacturer of Identification friend or foe (IFF)/Secondary Surveillance Radar (SSR) antennas located in Massachusetts.

In August 2007, Northrop Grumman acquired Scaled Composites in which it had previously owned a 40% stake.

In 2008, Northrop Grumman began working with DHS Systems LLC, manufacturer of the Deployable Rapid Assembly Shelter (DRASH) in New York, as part of the U.S. Army's Standard Integrated Command Post System program.


2010 to present

From 2013, Northrop Grumman participates in the DARPA Tactically Exploited Reconnaissance Node (TERN) program, and received $2.9 million for Phase 1 and $19 million for Phase 2. The TERN program attempts to launch and recover a UAV from mid-size ships to provide long distance intelligence gathering.

In July 2013, Northrop Grumman won a training-simulation contract potentially worth $490 million to support the U.S. Air Force's next-generation aerial warfare virtual-training network.

In October 2015, the US Military announced it had awarded Northrop Grumman the contract for the successor to the B-1 and B-52, subsequently identified as the B-21. The initial value is $21.4 billion, and could eventually be worth up to $80 billion.

In September 2017, Northrop announced its intention to acquire missile and rocket manufacture Orbital ATK Inc for $9.2 billion: $7.8 billion in cash plus $1.4 billion in net debt. On November 29, 2017, the acquisition was approved by Orbital ATK stockholders and on June 6, 2018 the merger closed after final FTC approval. The acquired company assets and naming were absorbed and become a division named Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems.


Political contributions and governmental ties

From 1990 to 2002, Northrop Grumman contributed $8.5 million to federal campaigns. According to PAC summary data compiled by Source Watch, the company gave US $1,011,260 to federal candidates in the 2005–2006 election cycle, compared to $10,612,837 given by all defense contractors in the same cycle. This donation amount was only behind that of General Dynamics and Lockheed Martin in the defense industry. The majority of the contributions, 63%, went to Republicans. Former Northrop Grumman Electronics Systems chief James G. Roche served as Secretary of the Air Force for two years under George W. Bush. Roche would eventually be nominated to head the Army, but withdrew his nomination among accusations of mismanaging a contract with Boeing and of failing to properly handle the Air Force sexual assault scandals of 2003. According to CorpWatch, "at least seven former officials, consultants, or shareholders of Northrop Grumman" have held posts "in the Bush administration...including Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, Vice-Presidential Chief of Staff I. Lewis Libby, Pentagon Comptroller Dov S. Zakheim, and Sean O'Keefe, director of NASA." Wolfowitz and Libby have both since left the government amid scandals.



The company engages third-party lobbying firms in jurisdictions where it has interests. For example, in South Australia it works with lobbying firm CMAX Communications.


Controversies

Too many for this thread.



International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) Violations


U.S. State Department investigators found that Litton Industries, a subsidiary acquired by Northrop Grumman in 2000, had provided portions of source code used by guidance and navigation system interfaces aboard Air Force One to a company in Russia in 1998. Northrop Grumman agreed to pay a $15 million fine for 110 violations, occurring between September 1998 and November 1998, of the Arms Export Control Act and the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR).

Additionally, documents filed by the State Department state that between 1994 and 2003, Northrop Grumman failed to notify the U.S. State Department about the computer guidance systems also being transferred to Angola, Indonesia, Israel, China, Ukraine and Yemen.


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?536555-Northrop-Captures-95M-DHS-Biometrics-ID-Contract-(Drain-the-Swamp-)

[Swordsmyth]

But is this not exactly what you support? At least when it comes to immigration policy.
Nope, territory is not the same as property.

[TheTexan]

Northrop Grumman has been confirmed as the winner of a three-and-a-half year, $95 million contract to develop the first two increments of a new biometric identification system for the Homeland Security Department.

Damnit, I was really hoping LMT would get that contract.

I guess I'll have to add some more NOC to my portfolio.

[Swordsmyth]

If we don't collect taxes to provide for a common defense, our country would be invaded by people who want to collect taxes from us, and that would be bad.
They would collect far more and probably end up killing us.

[TheTexan]

Nope, territory is not the same as property.

My neighbor used to think he could let his grass grow more than 6 inches just because it was his property.

He didn't realize that his property is in my territory. :cool:

[Swordsmyth]

Yes. Another $4.6 Billion additional. We losertarians scream hip hip hooray. Keep those invitations coming, the loss of liberty is indeed "for the common defense". MIC loves that line "for the common defense".
Without "the common defense" you would be deprived of all liberty and probably your life.

[Swordsmyth]

My neighbor used to think he could let his grass grow more than 6 inches just because it was his property.

He didn't realize that his property is in my territory. :cool:
Territory doesn't deal with that.

[TheTexan]

They would collect far more and probably end up killing us.

They would probably rape our women and burn our villages.

[Swordsmyth]

You are EQUATING pro right to travel freely, pro private/business property and contract rights, anti government solutions to government created problems, with collapsatarian losertarian standing in line with cases of I-864 forms handing them out like candy.

Whose side are you really on? Because you sure as hell are not on my side, expecting government to fix my problems by further restricting my rights and taxing me to death. Certainly when you know that it is the military contractors who are turning their attention from overseas to domestic.

Every presidency republican and democrat has its own "crisis". I am not a betting man but I would bet 10 to 1 if everything government ever said was completely ignored, most of the problems would vanish.
You are not on the side of liberty or you wouldn't want to facilitate an invasion by those who will destroy it.
And this crisis has been ongoing for decades, Trump is just the first president in a long time to take the side of the American people instead of the globalists.

[Superfluous Man]

Sure you do.

Just sign form I-864 (https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/fiance-marriage-visa-book/chapter8-5.html) and bring as many into your home as wish.


This is false. Immigration is restricted by quotas. Merely having someone fill out that form will not guarantee that someone can come here.

Or are you saying that under the policies that you support it would be enough?

[Swordsmyth]

They would probably rape our women and burn our villages.

That is what history tells us.

[PAF]

They would collect far more and probably end up killing us.

I can always count on you to post after post after post after post in order to divert attention from the posts that I make. Every time.

Right out of the NEOCON playbook.

_____


Northrop Grumman has been confirmed as the winner of a three-and-a-half year, $95 million contract to develop the first two increments of a new biometric identification system for the Homeland Security Department.

DHS' future Homeland Advanced Recognition Technology system is intended as an upgrade over the current platform built in the 1990s for national security, law enforcement, immigration and intelligence functions.


Northrop Grumman Corporation (NYSE: NOC) is an American global aerospace and defense technology company. With over 85,000 employees and an annual revenue in excess of $30 billion, it is one of the world's largest weapons manufacturers and military technology providers. The firm ranks number 118 on the 2018 Fortune 500 list of America's largest corporations.

Northrop Grumman and its industry partners have won the Collier Trophy eight times, most recently for developing the X-47B, the first-ever unmanned, autonomous air system operating from an aircraft carrier. In 2004, Scaled Composites, a subsidiary of Northrop Grumman, won the Collier Trophy for the SpaceShipOne which was successful developed for the first privately financed, built, and flown space vehicle. Northrop Grumman currently leads the development of B-21 Raider, a long-range, stealth strategic bomber capable of delivering conventional and thermonuclear weapons; it will replace Northrop's own B-2 Spirit, the only known stealth bomber in the world.



Aerospace Systems

Aerospace Systems, headquartered in Redondo Beach, California, produces aircraft, spacecraft, high-energy laser systems and microelectronics for the U.S. and other nations.


Mission Systems

Mission Systems produces and maintains the AWACS aerial surveillance systems for the U.S., the United Kingdom, NATO, Japan, and others. Northrop Grumman is the prime contractor for the development and integration of the Air Force's $2-billion Multi-Platform Radar Technology Insertion Program. Northrop Grumman also supports the U.S. ballistic missile program, integrates various command, control and intelligence systems and provides technical and management services to governmental and military customers, all with an emphasis on cyber security.


Technology Services

The Technology Services sector headquartered in McNair, Virginia (with a Herndon mailing address), works on "the entire life cycle of civil and defense platforms and capabilities through a range of services". Vinnell, a Northrop Grumman subsidiary, provides training and communications for the military. In 2003, it landed a $48 million contract to train the Iraqi Army. In 2005 the company won a $2 billion contract with Virginia to overhaul most of the state's IT operations. Later that year, The United Kingdom paid $1.2 billion in a contract with the company to provide maintenance of the country's defensive radar.

Northrop Grumman performs various functions in the War on Drugs. The company sends planes to spray herbicides on suspected cocaine fields in Colombia and opium poppy fields in Afghanistan.


Innovation Systems

On June 7, 2018, the acquisition of Orbital ATK was completed and the former company was absorbed in Northrop Grumman as a new business sector called Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems. With this acquisition, Northrop Grumman got more involved in the space industry, which now includes the construction and launch of the Cygnus spacecraft. The firm is in the process of developing the Omega space launch vehicle, which will bring U.S. government's national security satellites into space.


Affiliated companies and partners

Remotec, a subsidiary, is a manufacturer of remote control vehicles for explosive ordnance disposal and hazardous material handling. A UK-based subsidiary, Park Air Systems, provides VHF and UHF ground-to-air communications systems for the civil and defense markets. Northrop Grumman has also worked closely with Antenna Associates, Inc., a manufacturer of Identification friend or foe (IFF)/Secondary Surveillance Radar (SSR) antennas located in Massachusetts.

In August 2007, Northrop Grumman acquired Scaled Composites in which it had previously owned a 40% stake.

In 2008, Northrop Grumman began working with DHS Systems LLC, manufacturer of the Deployable Rapid Assembly Shelter (DRASH) in New York, as part of the U.S. Army's Standard Integrated Command Post System program.


2010 to present

From 2013, Northrop Grumman participates in the DARPA Tactically Exploited Reconnaissance Node (TERN) program, and received $2.9 million for Phase 1 and $19 million for Phase 2. The TERN program attempts to launch and recover a UAV from mid-size ships to provide long distance intelligence gathering.

In July 2013, Northrop Grumman won a training-simulation contract potentially worth $490 million to support the U.S. Air Force's next-generation aerial warfare virtual-training network.

In October 2015, the US Military announced it had awarded Northrop Grumman the contract for the successor to the B-1 and B-52, subsequently identified as the B-21. The initial value is $21.4 billion, and could eventually be worth up to $80 billion.

In September 2017, Northrop announced its intention to acquire missile and rocket manufacture Orbital ATK Inc for $9.2 billion: $7.8 billion in cash plus $1.4 billion in net debt. On November 29, 2017, the acquisition was approved by Orbital ATK stockholders and on June 6, 2018 the merger closed after final FTC approval. The acquired company assets and naming were absorbed and become a division named Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems.


Political contributions and governmental ties

From 1990 to 2002, Northrop Grumman contributed $8.5 million to federal campaigns. According to PAC summary data compiled by Source Watch, the company gave US $1,011,260 to federal candidates in the 2005–2006 election cycle, compared to $10,612,837 given by all defense contractors in the same cycle. This donation amount was only behind that of General Dynamics and Lockheed Martin in the defense industry. The majority of the contributions, 63%, went to Republicans. Former Northrop Grumman Electronics Systems chief James G. Roche served as Secretary of the Air Force for two years under George W. Bush. Roche would eventually be nominated to head the Army, but withdrew his nomination among accusations of mismanaging a contract with Boeing and of failing to properly handle the Air Force sexual assault scandals of 2003. According to CorpWatch, "at least seven former officials, consultants, or shareholders of Northrop Grumman" have held posts "in the Bush administration...including Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, Vice-Presidential Chief of Staff I. Lewis Libby, Pentagon Comptroller Dov S. Zakheim, and Sean O'Keefe, director of NASA." Wolfowitz and Libby have both since left the government amid scandals.



The company engages third-party lobbying firms in jurisdictions where it has interests. For example, in South Australia it works with lobbying firm CMAX Communications.


Controversies

Too many for this thread.



International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) Violations


U.S. State Department investigators found that Litton Industries, a subsidiary acquired by Northrop Grumman in 2000, had provided portions of source code used by guidance and navigation system interfaces aboard Air Force One to a company in Russia in 1998. Northrop Grumman agreed to pay a $15 million fine for 110 violations, occurring between September 1998 and November 1998, of the Arms Export Control Act and the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR).

Additionally, documents filed by the State Department state that between 1994 and 2003, Northrop Grumman failed to notify the U.S. State Department about the computer guidance systems also being transferred to Angola, Indonesia, Israel, China, Ukraine and Yemen.


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?536555-Northrop-Captures-95M-DHS-Biometrics-ID-Contract-(Drain-the-Swamp-)

[Superfluous Man]

They would probably rape our women and burn our villages.

At the very least they would commit genocide by way of seducing whites into miscegenating with them consensually.

[Swordsmyth]

Dude- I was NOT making fun of you- I was reminding you- and everyone- of Wallace's importance & what he did.

And Wallace was not fighting "immigration". He was fighting the Empire of the day taking his country. Today's Empire is doing the same damn thing but if people resist, we call them communists /socialists & employ coups & total take-overs of their countries & resources. The Anti-Feds were right on. The same PTB have also ripped the original CONstitution to shreds while slowly enslaving the people so they accept it & think they are free.

Immigration is NOT the problem- it is a ruse to keep your eye off the mark. Ironic how everyone here talks continually about the Deep State etc but still blames them dirty immigrants on any problem. A perfect example is this thread- how property taxes are now the fault of immigrants.

It is not.

It is the fault of Americans believing everything they're taught & told & never coming to a full understanding of what true freedom really means and what their personal responsibility is in keeping it. It's so much easier to point the finger at someone who doesn't look like you & blame them.

Of course, hate & division is also part of this planned ruse. We see it all over this forum.

All the insults, name-calling, & finger-pointing at someone who doesn't agree on a subject, no matter how small or insignificant is mind-blowing. And every single issue goes back to immigration for a few of the biggest insulters. Creating division seems to be part of their ideology.

And, of course there will be the regulars jumping in to scream that I- and anyone who believes in true freedom are open-border advocates- and take the subject of this post right back to the hate & division category.

For the record- and zillionth time:

I believe in free travel but absolutely no incentives- people should be able to come & work or spend money, but NO free stuff or privileges, a reasonable path to citizenship, and REAL capitalism & free enterprise. End the WoD & WoT, bring the military home, and mind our own business.
The immigrants have been used and are being used to conquer us politically and steal our liberty and property.

[Superfluous Man]

No, it is “providing for the common defense”.

Note that word "common." That means it applies equally to all of us.

But if I want to hire someone to work in my factory, or rent an apartment out to them, or sell my house to them, and you won't let me, whoever's interests you may think you're defending, they aren't mine. So it isn't the "common" defense.

That is unless you understand the word "common" to be something that sweeps together all of us as individuals into a collective with its own interests that are distinct from the interests of the individuals comprising it. If this is what you mean, then you're illustrating precisely what I said in the quote you tried to contradict, and showing that your own version of immigration restrictionism does exactly what I said. My property isn't my own as an individual, but is the common property of the nation, naturally then to be managed ultimately by the government.

[TheTexan]

That is what history tells us.

Eventually all of these countries with limited militaries will be conquered & invaded :(

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_without_armed_forces

[Swordsmyth]

I can always count on you to post after post after post after post in order to divert attention from the posts that I make. Every time.

Right out of the NEOCON playbook.

_____


Northrop Grumman has been confirmed as the winner of a three-and-a-half year, $95 million contract to develop the first two increments of a new biometric identification system for the Homeland Security Department.

DHS' future Homeland Advanced Recognition Technology system is intended as an upgrade over the current platform built in the 1990s for national security, law enforcement, immigration and intelligence functions.


Northrop Grumman Corporation (NYSE: NOC) is an American global aerospace and defense technology company. With over 85,000 employees and an annual revenue in excess of $30 billion, it is one of the world's largest weapons manufacturers and military technology providers. The firm ranks number 118 on the 2018 Fortune 500 list of America's largest corporations.

Northrop Grumman and its industry partners have won the Collier Trophy eight times, most recently for developing the X-47B, the first-ever unmanned, autonomous air system operating from an aircraft carrier. In 2004, Scaled Composites, a subsidiary of Northrop Grumman, won the Collier Trophy for the SpaceShipOne which was successful developed for the first privately financed, built, and flown space vehicle. Northrop Grumman currently leads the development of B-21 Raider, a long-range, stealth strategic bomber capable of delivering conventional and thermonuclear weapons; it will replace Northrop's own B-2 Spirit, the only known stealth bomber in the world.



Aerospace Systems

Aerospace Systems, headquartered in Redondo Beach, California, produces aircraft, spacecraft, high-energy laser systems and microelectronics for the U.S. and other nations.


Mission Systems

Mission Systems produces and maintains the AWACS aerial surveillance systems for the U.S., the United Kingdom, NATO, Japan, and others. Northrop Grumman is the prime contractor for the development and integration of the Air Force's $2-billion Multi-Platform Radar Technology Insertion Program. Northrop Grumman also supports the U.S. ballistic missile program, integrates various command, control and intelligence systems and provides technical and management services to governmental and military customers, all with an emphasis on cyber security.


Technology Services

The Technology Services sector headquartered in McNair, Virginia (with a Herndon mailing address), works on "the entire life cycle of civil and defense platforms and capabilities through a range of services". Vinnell, a Northrop Grumman subsidiary, provides training and communications for the military. In 2003, it landed a $48 million contract to train the Iraqi Army. In 2005 the company won a $2 billion contract with Virginia to overhaul most of the state's IT operations. Later that year, The United Kingdom paid $1.2 billion in a contract with the company to provide maintenance of the country's defensive radar.

Northrop Grumman performs various functions in the War on Drugs. The company sends planes to spray herbicides on suspected cocaine fields in Colombia and opium poppy fields in Afghanistan.


Innovation Systems

On June 7, 2018, the acquisition of Orbital ATK was completed and the former company was absorbed in Northrop Grumman as a new business sector called Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems. With this acquisition, Northrop Grumman got more involved in the space industry, which now includes the construction and launch of the Cygnus spacecraft. The firm is in the process of developing the Omega space launch vehicle, which will bring U.S. government's national security satellites into space.


Affiliated companies and partners

Remotec, a subsidiary, is a manufacturer of remote control vehicles for explosive ordnance disposal and hazardous material handling. A UK-based subsidiary, Park Air Systems, provides VHF and UHF ground-to-air communications systems for the civil and defense markets. Northrop Grumman has also worked closely with Antenna Associates, Inc., a manufacturer of Identification friend or foe (IFF)/Secondary Surveillance Radar (SSR) antennas located in Massachusetts.

In August 2007, Northrop Grumman acquired Scaled Composites in which it had previously owned a 40% stake.

In 2008, Northrop Grumman began working with DHS Systems LLC, manufacturer of the Deployable Rapid Assembly Shelter (DRASH) in New York, as part of the U.S. Army's Standard Integrated Command Post System program.


2010 to present

From 2013, Northrop Grumman participates in the DARPA Tactically Exploited Reconnaissance Node (TERN) program, and received $2.9 million for Phase 1 and $19 million for Phase 2. The TERN program attempts to launch and recover a UAV from mid-size ships to provide long distance intelligence gathering.

In July 2013, Northrop Grumman won a training-simulation contract potentially worth $490 million to support the U.S. Air Force's next-generation aerial warfare virtual-training network.

In October 2015, the US Military announced it had awarded Northrop Grumman the contract for the successor to the B-1 and B-52, subsequently identified as the B-21. The initial value is $21.4 billion, and could eventually be worth up to $80 billion.

In September 2017, Northrop announced its intention to acquire missile and rocket manufacture Orbital ATK Inc for $9.2 billion: $7.8 billion in cash plus $1.4 billion in net debt. On November 29, 2017, the acquisition was approved by Orbital ATK stockholders and on June 6, 2018 the merger closed after final FTC approval. The acquired company assets and naming were absorbed and become a division named Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems.


Political contributions and governmental ties

From 1990 to 2002, Northrop Grumman contributed $8.5 million to federal campaigns. According to PAC summary data compiled by Source Watch, the company gave US $1,011,260 to federal candidates in the 2005–2006 election cycle, compared to $10,612,837 given by all defense contractors in the same cycle. This donation amount was only behind that of General Dynamics and Lockheed Martin in the defense industry. The majority of the contributions, 63%, went to Republicans. Former Northrop Grumman Electronics Systems chief James G. Roche served as Secretary of the Air Force for two years under George W. Bush. Roche would eventually be nominated to head the Army, but withdrew his nomination among accusations of mismanaging a contract with Boeing and of failing to properly handle the Air Force sexual assault scandals of 2003. According to CorpWatch, "at least seven former officials, consultants, or shareholders of Northrop Grumman" have held posts "in the Bush administration...including Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, Vice-Presidential Chief of Staff I. Lewis Libby, Pentagon Comptroller Dov S. Zakheim, and Sean O'Keefe, director of NASA." Wolfowitz and Libby have both since left the government amid scandals.



The company engages third-party lobbying firms in jurisdictions where it has interests. For example, in South Australia it works with lobbying firm CMAX Communications.


Controversies

Too many for this thread.



International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) Violations


U.S. State Department investigators found that Litton Industries, a subsidiary acquired by Northrop Grumman in 2000, had provided portions of source code used by guidance and navigation system interfaces aboard Air Force One to a company in Russia in 1998. Northrop Grumman agreed to pay a $15 million fine for 110 violations, occurring between September 1998 and November 1998, of the Arms Export Control Act and the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR).

Additionally, documents filed by the State Department state that between 1994 and 2003, Northrop Grumman failed to notify the U.S. State Department about the computer guidance systems also being transferred to Angola, Indonesia, Israel, China, Ukraine and Yemen.


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?536555-Northrop-Captures-95M-DHS-Biometrics-ID-Contract-(Drain-the-Swamp-)

You are the one trying to distract from the truth, all of the issues you point out would be worse in the NAU that you are facilitating, letting communists invade us will not solve them, the USSR was not a land of anarchic liberty and Communist China is not either.

[Swordsmyth]

Eventually all of these countries with limited militaries will be conquered & invaded :(

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_without_armed_forces
Not if they can be bullied or immigrated into compliance or have little that anyone wants.

[Superfluous Man]

The immigrants have been used and are being used to conquer us politically and steal our liberty and property.

But you don't only want to restrict immigration of those individuals you can prove are coming here to conquer us politically and steal our liberty and property, do you?

You also want to restrict the immigration of those who are innocent of that.

Am I right?

[Swordsmyth]

Note that word "common." That means it applies equally to all of us.

But if I want to hire someone to work in my factory, or rent an apartment out to them, or sell my house to them, and you won't let me, whoever's interests you may think you're defending, they aren't mine. So it isn't the "common" defense.

That is unless you understand the word "common" to be something that sweeps together all of us as individuals into a collective with its own interests that are distinct from the interests of the individuals comprising it. If this is what you mean, then you're illustrating precisely what I said in the quote you tried to contradict, and showing that your own version of immigration restrictionism does exactly what I said. My property isn't my own as an individual, but is the common property of the nation, naturally then to be managed ultimately by the government.
The individual can not defend his rights against collectives of tyrants, therefore some limited collectivism is required to preserve the most liberty possible.

[Swordsmyth]

But you don't only want to restrict immigration of those individuals you can prove are coming here to conquer us politically and steal our liberty and property, do you?

You also want to restrict the immigration of those who are innocent of that.

Am I right?
We can't read minds, therefore we must take a white list approach as opposed to a black list.

[Superfluous Man]

The individual can not defend his rights against collectives of tyrants, therefore some limited collectivism is required to preserve the most liberty possible.

Individuals who think like you and want to collectivize themselves voluntarily should be able to do so. And they should keep their collective to those who voluntarily join it, not subjugate others by conquest.

[Superfluous Man]

we must take a white list approach as opposed to a black list.

I see what you did there.

[Brian4Liberty]

Northrop Grumman has been confirmed as the winner of a three-and-a-half year, $95 million contract to develop the first two increments of a new biometric identification system for the Homeland Security Department.
...


Yep. Global. Global in the sense that they sell all over the globe, it’s just that each nation or group has some limitations. The US is their favorite customer. But they can’t sell machine guns in the US, while they hand them out like candy in many places in the world, including to enemies. Advanced aircraft don’t go everywhere, but ironically, they can go to the nation whose citizens flew aircraft into our towers.

Cut the budget down to the bare essentials. No need for biometric ID.

[Swordsmyth]

Individuals who think like you and want to collectivize themselves voluntarily should be able to do so. And they should keep their collective to those who voluntarily join it, not subjugate others by conquest.
That's nice but life doesn't work that way, territory must be contiguous to be defensible and we aren't born in discrete batches that allow us to all come of age at the same time as our parents die.

[Swordsmyth]

I see what you did there.

No, you don't.

You are proving yourself to be the racist.

A white list is a list of things/people that are allowed, a black list is a list of things/people not allowed.

We can't read minds so we must take a conservative approach and only allow a limited number of people from the most liberty oriented cultures because most of them will probably be less liberty oriented than Americans and we can only educate/assimilate them so fast.

[TheTexan]

At the very least they would commit genocide by way of seducing whites into miscegenating with them consensually.

That would be a profanely heinous, opprobriously incorrigible consequence.

[Superfluous Man]

No, you don't.

You are proving yourself to be the racist.

A white list is a list of things/people that are allowed, a black list is a list of things/people not allowed.


It was a joke.

Are you autistic or something?

[Brian4Liberty]

...
But if I want to hire someone to work in my factory, or rent an apartment out to them, or sell my house to them, and you won't let me, whoever's interests you may think you're defending, they aren't mine. So it isn't the "common" defense.
...

The number and types of visas at any given time will always be a debate.

AFAIK, the caravans of people arriving at the southern border are not coming for any specific, pre-arranged job. It’s the opposite, as most of them have been told by organizations like Catholic Charities that they will be taken care of by the US taxpayer. No prior job or housing arrangements necessary.

[Swordsmyth]

It was a joke.


That's what all you liberals say when called out on your idiocy.

You posted that "joke" to call me racist. Period. Full Stop.

[shakey1]

I have been yelling NO PROPERTY TAX for primary residence anywhere in the US
for over 15 years , being charged property tax on your home is literally renting
from the government.

Anyone that doubts this, stop paying the government's property tax and see
how long it takes them to evict you from your home.

Tax everything , as you already do, but gtfo of our homes.

Couldn’t agree more, but refuse to pay & tptb simply take what is yours thru under the table legislation... needs to be a higher level of activism at the least... property tax is theft.

[Swordsmyth]

Couldn’t agree more, but refuse to pay & tptb simply take what is yours thru under the table legislation... needs to be a higher level of activism at the least... property tax is theft.
Property tax is as bad or worse than income tax.

[Stratovarious]

Couldn’t agree more, but refuse to pay & tptb simply take what is yours thru under the table legislation... needs to be a higher level of activism at the least... property tax is theft.


Property tax is as bad or worse than income tax.

I agree with both, statements, however, I don't have a problem with 'Property Tax' it is the
Primary Residence Property Tax that I have issue with.
We need to gut our hole tax system but the worst IMV is the taxing of our Homes, or
primary residences, properties we rent out or speculate on aside from our own
homes is a different issue with me.

[Anti Federalist]

Disabled military veteran could lose his home over $236 in back taxes

https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/consumers/2019/07/12/disabled-military-veteran-could-lose-his-home-over-236-dollars-tax-dispute-mesa-arizona/1661266001/

Rebekah L. Sanders, Arizona Republic Published 6:30 a.m. MT July 12, 2019 | Updated 1:41 p.m. MT July 12, 2019

Disabled military veteran Jim Boerner bought his buttercup-yellow mobile home in Mesa two years ago, hoping to live affordably into his old age.

Boerner, 49, is unable to work because of spinal and brain injuries he suffered during a training exercise in 1991 at Keesler Air Force Base in Mississippi, he said.

On his limited income, Boerner keeps a cat named Samantha, fixes guitars found at garage sales and brings flowers to widowed neighbors on Christmas, Easter and Mother's Day.

To save money, Boerner says he applied to a Maricopa County program that reduces property taxes for people with disabilities and limited incomes. He thought he had been accepted.

So when a stranger knocked on his door last month claiming to have bought his home at auction because of $236 in late taxes, Boerner said he was floored.

"I said, 'What are you talking about? ... This has got to be wrong,' " Boerner recalled. "Had I known I was in peril of losing my home, I would have paid it in full."

Jim Boerner, a U.S. Air Force veteran, may lose his Mesa home over $236 in unpaid taxes he thought had been paid. He poses outside his home on July 8, 2019.
Jim Boerner, a U.S. Air Force veteran, may lose his Mesa home over $236 in unpaid taxes he thought had been paid. He poses outside his home on July 8, 2019. (Photo: Tom Tingle/The Republic)

Now Boerner is fighting to save his home, knowing he could be forced to pack his things any day.

Government officials have scrambled to find loopholes but say there may be nothing they can do. The new owner says he won't negotiate and will begin eviction proceedings soon.

"It's difficult. It’s just difficult," Boerner said through tears on Monday. "I love my home. I love my neighbors. ... This was my nest egg, you know? That's why I paid cash for it. This is where I was going to retire. And now I don't have that assurance anymore."

For more stories that matter, subscribe to azcentral.com.

What went wrong?
Boerner has had to navigate a labyrinth of bureaucracy to find out what went wrong.

The Maricopa County Assessor's Office handles tax exemptions. The Maricopa County Treasurer's Office collects tax payments and issues delinquency notices. The Maricopa County Sheriff's Office serves delinquent taxpayers with auction notices and conducts the sales.

"I've been getting the brick wall everywhere I turn," Boerner said.

Treasurer Royce Flora, who has been trying to help, said it's understandable that a taxpayer may feel lost.

"If we can't figure out how to get through the maze, how is he supposed to?" Flora said.

The treasurer believes it's outrageous that Boerner is facing eviction.

If Boerner had lived in a single-family home, he might not be on the verge of being kicked out. Single-family homeowners have five years to pay back taxes before foreclosure.

But different rules apply to mobile homes, which are considered personal property, Flora said. They can be auctioned as soon as tax payments are late.

Arizona law is "not treating (a mobile home) like someone's home," Flora said. "A home is a home, and they should be treated the same."

No record of his application
Jim Boerner, a U.S. Air Force veteran, may lose his Mesa home over $236 in unpaid taxes he thought had been paid. He looks at real estate documents on July 8, 2019.
Jim Boerner, a U.S. Air Force veteran, may lose his Mesa home over $236 in unpaid taxes he thought had been paid. He looks at real estate documents on July 8, 2019. (Photo: Tom Tingle/The Republic)

Boerner's problems began last year, when a sheriff's deputy arrived to tell him he was late on his property taxes and his mobile home could be sold at auction.

Boerner said he was confused.

He remembered filling out paperwork in 2017 soon after he bought the home to apply for a property-tax exemption and receiving a postcard confirming his acceptance.

After the deputy's visit, Boerner said he sent another application to the Assessor's Office and received another postcard. He didn't keep either postcard, Boerner said.

Boerner called the Sheriff's Office after last year's visit and learned the home was not scheduled for auction, so he figured things were cleared up, he said.

The Assessor's Office told The Arizona Republic it does send postcards to confirm property-tax exemptions. But after searching thoroughly, the office found no record of Boerner applying for an exemption in 2017 or 2018, although the office keeps all related documents including incomplete and rejected applications.

Another knock on the door
A few weeks ago, a sheriff's deputy arrived at Boerner's home again.

"Are we going to do this every year?" Boerner said he wondered.

The deputy told him he was "perilously close" to losing the home and advised he pay the tax soon, Boerner said.

Boerner called June 13 to make a payment. Two county employees told him the deadline was weeks away.

"There's nothing serious you would need to be worried about as far as the home being in any danger or anything like that," a county call-center employee told him, according to a recording made by the county.

When Boerner asked the amount he needed to pay, he was transferred to a Sheriff's Office employee.

"Are they going to kick me out between now and June 30?" Boerner asked.

"I would imagine not. I would always advise paying as quickly as you can, but I don't see anything in my comments saying they're going to," the employee replied.

That wasn't true.

Boerner's account with the Sheriff's Office included notes that his home was scheduled for auction June 20, documents show.

A Sheriff's Office spokesman did not respond to questions from The Republic about why Boerner was given incorrect information on the phone about the imminent auction.

The Sheriff's Office employee then told Boerner he owed $641 in total. Of that, $405 was due from last year, the employee said.

When Boerner made the payment online, he said he only remembered $405. That's what he paid.

It wasn't enough. The home was sold at auction a week later for $4,400.

Conversations with the buyer
Jim Boerner, a U.S. Air Force veteran, may lose his Mesa home over $236 in unpaid taxes he thought had been paid. He poses outside his home July 8, 2019.
Jim Boerner, a U.S. Air Force veteran, may lose his Mesa home over $236 in unpaid taxes he thought had been paid. He poses outside his home July 8, 2019. (Photo: Tom Tingle/The Republic)

Soon, a man knocked on Boerner's door and said he had bought the mobile home. How long would it take him to move out, Boehner remembered the man asking.

The man gave an alias, Alex Patron, Boerner said, but business records suggest the buyer's real name is Lester Payne. He purchased the home under a business called Advanced Dynamic Energy Limited.

"I said, 'What are you talking about?' " Boerner said. "He said, 'I have all the documentation.' "

Boerner invited Payne in for a cool drink and called the county to ask what happened. An employee told him he hadn't paid enough in taxes and his home had been auctioned.

Payne offered to sell the home back, Boerner remembered.

"Thank God," he thought. Boerner figured he could pay $5,000, giving Payne a 16% profit.

But Payne said he would only settle for $30,000, nearly as much as Boerner had spent on the home originally and more than he could afford, Boerner said.

"I was begging him to rethink," Boerner said.

Over the next few days, Payne told Boerner he would sell the home for $26,000, and then $52,000, according to text messages Boerner shared.

Payne told Boerner by phone if he didn't pay, Payne could haul the home away at night, Boerner said.

Payne wanted to work with Boerner but the veteran called him and his family nasty names, the buyer told The Republic.

"I'm not going to try to deal with this issue anymore," Payne said.

Text messages Boerner shared with The Republic don't show him calling Payne names, but the veteran did tell Payne he could expose the buyer's criminal rap sheet, which includes felonies for aggravated assault, misconduct involving weapons and endangerment along with misdemeanors for driving under the influence and shoplifting, according to county court records.

"You want a battle, Lester," Boerner wrote. "We will battle."

Payne texted that he was "tired of the threats."

"It's been long enough for you to try to buy the home," Payne texted. "I'm starting (the) eviction process now."

How tax-lien auctions work
From all accounts, it appears Payne legally purchased Boerner's home and has the right to take over the title.

Tax-lien auctions help local governments collect unpaid property taxes that are needed to fund schools, law enforcement and roads.

In the case of single-family homes, owners have two years to pay delinquent taxes before the tax lien is auctioned. And an auction winner has three years to collect the tax payment, plus interest, from the taxpayer before being allowed to foreclose and take ownership of the home.

Jim Boerner, a U.S. Air Force veteran, may lose his Mesa home over $236 in unpaid taxes he thought had been paid. He looks at real estate documents on July 8, 2019.
Jim Boerner, a U.S. Air Force veteran, may lose his Mesa home over $236 in unpaid taxes he thought had been paid. He looks at real estate documents on July 8, 2019. (Photo: Tom Tingle/The Republic)

In the case of mobile homes, state law allows an auction to be held the day after a tax payment is due. In practice, there's a little bit of a delay.

The Maricopa County Treasurer's Office allows mobile-home taxpayers 30 days after a tax payment is due before declaring it delinquent and another 30 days before notifying the Sheriff's Office.

The Sheriff's Office decides which mobile homes to auction.

A detective visits the home to confirm its location, notifies the delinquent taxpayer, explains where to make a payment, warns that failing to do so could result in an auction and leaves a notice of sale, said spokesman Sgt. Bryant Vanegas. If a deputy can't serve the taxpayer, the Sheriff's Office publishes a notice in a newspaper.

Once a mobile-home tax lien is purchased, the buyer owns the home and can evict the tenants.

An uncertain future
Boerner said he has no idea where he will live if he loses the mobile home.

He can't burden his parents by living in their small house for long, Boerner said, and he may not be able to afford to buy another place.

"I don't know where I would go," he said.

Flora, the treasurer, has asked the Maricopa County Attorney's Office to investigate.

He thinks the sale should be reversed because the Sheriff's Office gave Boerner incorrect information by phone about the timing of the auction and because Boerner paid the 2017 taxes.

The Sheriff's Office typically doesn't auction a home until a year or more of late taxes rack up, so it's curious why the office moved forward based on 2018 taxes that were only a few weeks late.

A sheriff's spokesman did not clarify the decision.

Flora said he will personally pay $15,000 to save the home.

But Payne is no longer willing to sell, he told The Republic on Tuesday.

"I'm keeping the home," he said. "My grandma needs a house. She likes the (mobile home) park."

State lawmakers concerned by Boerner's case said they want to change the law so that mobile-home owners have more time to pay back taxes. But those changes wouldn't be made until the spring when the new legislative session opens.

"A mere $50 can mean the difference between an individual or family being forced to live on the streets," Rep. Bob Thorpe, R-Flagstaff, said.

Rep. Bob Thorpe
Rep. Bob Thorpe (Photo: Arizona House)

Thorpe held a meeting at the state Capitol on Thursday with the mobile-home industry, government officials and residents about possible changes to the law.

"I want fairness," Thorpe told the group. "We need to make sure there is enough of a grace period similar to a stick-built home so a person with a fixed income is not going to lose their home out from under them."

Rep. Anthony Kern, R-Glendale, said he will urge Maricopa County Sheriff Paul Penzone to look for a way to reverse the sale.

"Nobody wants a disabled veteran kicked out of his home in 107 degrees," Kern said.

Boerner said the stress is wearing on him.

"It's emotional. It's frustrating," he said. "... It's maddening I could lose my home over $200."

Boerner doesn't know how soon he'll have to leave.

The buyer "could come at anytime and tell me, 'Time to get out,' " Boerner said.

Contact the veteran
Offers of help or encouragement can be sent to Boerner through his attorney, Curtis Ensign, at curtisensign@cox.net or 602-266-3300.

Tell AZ officials what you think
State Legislature:

Rep. Bob Thorpe held a mobile-home stakeholders meeting Thursday to discuss changes to the law so that mobile homes are treated the same as single-family homes and other reforms. Contact Thorpe at 602-926-5219 or https://www.azleg.gov/emailazleg/?legislatorId=1872.

Rep. Anthony Kern is also interested in the issue. Contact him at 602-926-3102 or https://www.azleg.gov/emailazleg/?legislatorId=1868.

Maricopa County:

Assessor Paul Petersen: 602-506-3406.

Sheriff Paul Penzone: 602-876-1000.

Treasurer Royce Flora: 602-506-8511.

How to apply for a property-tax discount if you are disabled or widowed
You may be eligible for a discount on your property taxes if you are disabled or widowed. You must:

Live in Arizona.
Have a total assessed property valuation under $26,969.
Have income (excluding Social Security payments) under $33,037 if there are no children living with you or under $39,634 if minor children live with you.
Have a total and permanent disability certified by a licensed physician or be a widow or widower.
Provide several forms of documentation and submit an application form to the Maricopa County Assessor's Office. If you live in a different Arizona county, contact your local assessor for an application.
Keep your address updated with the assessor. If you move out of the county, you must reapply with the new county.
The deadline to apply is March 1. Once accepted, you do not need to apply again, but officials may conduct periodic audits to ensure you still meet the qualifications.

For more information, call 602-506-3406 and ask for the Personal Exemptions Department in the Assessor's Office. Download an application form at https://mcassessor.maricopa.gov/static/docs/Personal-Exemption.pdf.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Everything about property tax stinks. The "Tax" itself is a complete lie, it's government rent. The government also decides how much your house is worth. The government also causes the inflation that increases the $$$ amount of your home's worth. FUNNY HOW THAT WORKS ISN'T IT?

[Swordsmyth]

I agree with both, statements, however, I don't have a problem with 'Property Tax' it is the
Primary Residence Property Tax that I have issue with.
We need to gut our hole tax system but the worst IMV is the taxing of our Homes, or
primary residences, properties we rent out or speculate on aside from our own
homes is a different issue with me.
That would make a good first step.