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RonZeplin
06-30-2019, 02:18 PM
The Forever War Is So Normalized That Opposing It Is “Isolationism” (https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/the-forever-war-is-so-normalized-that-opposing-it-is-isolationism-8b4062aed18b)

After getting curb stomped on the debate stage (https://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/1144130437264154624) by Tulsi Gabbard, the campaign for Tim “Who the fuck is Tim Ryan?” Ryan posted a statement (https://twitter.com/TimRyan/status/1144097954325762050) decrying the Hawaii congresswoman’s desire to end a pointless 18-year military occupation as “isolationism”.

“While making a point as to why America can’t cede its international leadership and retreat from around the world, Tim was interrupted by Rep. Tulsi Gabbard,” the statement reads. “When he tried to answer her, she contorted a factual point Tim was making — about the Taliban being complicit in the 9/11 attacks by providing training, bases and refuge for Al Qaeda and its leaders. The characterization that Tim Ryan doesn’t know who is responsible for the attacks on 9/11 is simply unfair reporting. Further, we continue to reject Gabbard’s isolationism and her misguided beliefs on foreign policy. We refuse to be lectured by someone who thinks it’s ok to dine with murderous dictators like Syria’s Bashar Al-Assad who used chemical weapons on his own people.”

Ryan’s campaign is lying. During an exchange that was explicitly about the Taliban in Afghanistan, Ryan plainly said “When we weren’t in there, they started flying planes into our buildings.” At best, Ryan can argue that when he said “they” he had suddenly shifted from talking about the Taliban to talking about Al Qaeda without bothering to say so, in which case he obviously can’t legitimately claim that Gabbard “contorted” anything he had said. At worst, he was simply unaware at the time of the very clear distinction between the Afghan military and political body called the Taliban and the multinational extremist organization called Al Qaeda.

More importantly, Ryan’s campaign using the word “isolationism” to describe the simple common sense impulse to withdraw from a costly, deadly military occupation which isn’t accomplishing anything highlights an increasingly common tactic of tarring anything other than endless military expansionism as strange and aberrant instead of normal and good. Under our current Orwellian doublespeak paradigm where forever war is the new normal, the opposite of war is no longer peace, but isolationism. This removal of a desirable opposite of war from the establishment-authorised lexicon causes war to always be the desirable option.

This is entirely by design. This bit of word magic has been employed for a long time to tar any idea which deviates from the neoconservative agenda of total global unipolarity via violent imperialism as something freakish and dangerous. In his farewell address to the nation (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/4251301/George-W-Bushs-final-speech-Full-transcript.html), war criminal George W Bush said the following:

“In the face of threats from abroad, it can be tempting to seek comfort by turning inward. But we must reject isolationism and its companion, protectionism. Retreating behind our borders would only invite danger. In the 21st century, security and prosperity at home depend on the expansion of liberty abroad. If America does not lead the cause of freedom, that cause will not be led.”


A few months after Bush’s address, Antiwar’s Rich Rubino wrote an article titled “Non-Interventionism is Not Isolationism (https://original.antiwar.com/rubino/2009/04/16/non-interventionism-is-not-isolationism/)”, explaining the difference between a nation which withdraws entirely from the world and a nation which simply resists the temptation to use military aggression except in self defense.

“Isolationism dictates that a country should have no relations with the rest of the world,” Rubino explained. “In its purest form this would mean that ambassadors would not be shared with other nations, communications with foreign governments would be mainly perfunctory, and commercial relations would be non-existent.”

“A non-interventionist supports commercial relations,” Rubino contrasted. “In fact, in terms of trade, many non-interventionists share libertarian proclivities and would unilaterally obliterate all tariffs and custom duties, and would be open to trade with all willing nations. In addition, non-interventionists welcome cultural exchanges and the exchange of ambassadors with all willing nations.”

“A non-interventionist believes that the U.S. should not intercede in conflicts between other nations or conflicts within nations,” wrote Rubino. “In recent history, non-interventionists have proved prophetic in warning of the dangers of the U.S. entangling itself in alliances. The U.S. has suffered deleterious effects and effectuated enmity among other governments, citizenries, and non-state actors as a result of its overseas interventions. The U.S. interventions in both Iran and Iraq have led to cataclysmic consequences.”

Calling an aversion to endless military violence “isolationism” is the same as calling an aversion to mugging people “agoraphobia”. Yet you’ll see this ridiculous label applied to both Gabbard and Trump, neither of whom are isolationists by any stretch of the imagination, or even proper non-interventionists. Gabbard supports most US military alliances and continues to voice full support for the bogus “war on terror” implemented by the Bush administration which serves no purpose other than to facilitate endless military expansionism; Trump is openly pushing regime change interventionism in both Venezuela and Iran while declining to make good on his promises to withdraw the US military from Syria and Afghanistan.

Another dishonest label you’ll get thrown at you when debating the forever war is “pacifism”. “Some wars are bad, but I’m not a pacifist; sometimes war is necessary,” supporters of a given interventionist military action will tell you. They’ll say this while defending Trump’s potentially catastrophic Iran warmongering or promoting a moronic regime change invasion of Syria, or defending disastrous US military interventions in the past like Iraq.

This is bullshit for a couple of reasons. Firstly, virtually no one is a pure pacifist who opposes war under any and all possible circumstances; anyone who claims that they can’t imagine any possible scenario in which they’d support using some kind of coordinated violence either hasn’t imagined very hard or is fooling themselves. If your loved ones were going to be raped, tortured and killed by hostile forces unless an opposing group took up arms to defend them, for example, you would support that. Hell, you would probably join in. Secondly, equating opposition to US-led regime change interventionism, which is literally always disastrous and literally never helpful, is not even a tiny bit remotely like opposing all war under any possible circumstance.

https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/the-forever-war-is-so-normalized-that-opposing-it-is-isolationism-8b4062aed18b

Warrior_of_Freedom
06-30-2019, 02:21 PM
oh who was that democrat I think from Hawaii that said not going to war doesn't make you an isolationist. There's other ways to interact with countries other than bombing them to the ground. I don't even remember her name because the media wants me to forget that was a thing that was ever said.

UWDude
06-30-2019, 02:22 PM
RonZeplin thinks Biden would be better than Trump.

Warrior_of_Freedom
06-30-2019, 02:33 PM
RonZeplin thinks Biden would be better than Trump.

Biden has the midas touch

Anti Globalist
06-30-2019, 02:35 PM
Some people might believe that but others don't.

RonZeplin
06-30-2019, 02:42 PM
RonZeplin thinks Biden would be better than Trump.

Better than Trump, is easier than falling off of a log. The vast majority of Americans are... Better than Trump, is such a low bar.

UWDude
06-30-2019, 02:44 PM
Better than Trump, is easier than falling off of a log. The vast majority of Americans are... Better than Trump, it's such a low bar.

Biden as a far lower bar. There is no way Biden is better than Trump. Biden voted for every war.

nikcers
06-30-2019, 02:55 PM
Biden as a far lower bar. There is no way Biden is better than Trump. Biden voted for every war.

I just like to blame everything on Trump to the point where its comical. Its America first world problems.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwvlbJ0h35A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwvlbJ0h35A

RonZeplin
06-30-2019, 04:03 PM
I just like to blame everything on Trump to the point where its comical. Its America first world problems.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwvlbJ0h35A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwvlbJ0h35A

Trump and Biden are in total sync.... BOMB IRAN, neocon it up, bigger and more stupid government, more surveillance of the peons, crackdown on liberty.

This thread isn't really about Biden, but Uncle Joe, Trump, Pence & Hillary are all on the same forever war neocon globalist page. :eek:

Their NWO cult would like to paint anyone who isn't on-board with Forever Wars & The New World Order as "Isolationists" and kooky peaceniks.

http://patriotretort.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Hillary-Vulcan-mind-meld.jpg

President Donnell is in a Vulcan Mind Meld with Hillary & The New World Order. Moar War :down:

UWDude
06-30-2019, 04:21 PM
Trump and Biden are in total sync....

How is that possible. If they are in sync, they are equal. You have stated multiple times Biden is actually better than Trump.




This thread isn't really about Biden, but



It's about you, why you started it, why you are here, and what your agenda is.
Why don't you just state your agenda clearly?

You saying Biden is better than Trump shows your cares about foreign policy have nothing to do with foreign policy, and everything to do with your hatred of Trump. There is no way Biden is better than Trump on foreign policy.

I am not trying to change your mind.

I am just pointing out your agenda is far beyond a non-interventionist America.

RonZeplin
06-30-2019, 04:59 PM
How is that possible. If they are in sync, they are equal. You have stated multiple times Biden is actually better than Trump.



It's about you, why you started it, why you are here, and what your agenda is.
Why don't you just state your agenda clearly?

You saying Biden is better than Trump shows your cares about foreign policy have nothing to do with foreign policy, and everything to do with your hatred of Trump. There is no way Biden is better than Trump on foreign policy.

I am not trying to change your mind.

I am just pointing out your agenda is far beyond a non-interventionist America.

Start another thread about Joe Biden, that's not the topic here. Sure you'd like to change the subject to anything but the fact that Trump is a warmongering neocon establishment goon, like Tim Ryan.

Gonna stay focused on the topic at hand, K?

https://i2.wp.com/smeddum.blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/serveimage-85.jpeg?fit=1200%2C600&ssl=1&w=640

UWDude
06-30-2019, 05:06 PM
Gotta stay focused on the topic at hand, K?


You can't tell me what to do.
My focus is on you, and your agenda, and your tactics.
Why are you even posting this article?
How is Joe Biden better than Trump on anything?

I have not read your article, because I do not trust your intentions, at all.
Nor will I ever trust you, or your intentions.
Too many secretly want war, as they castigate others as warmongers.
And I don't mean too many in a moral way.
I mean too many as in my survival instincts are pinging.

If it must be civil war, I know who I want to win.
Because I know my enemies.

RonZeplin
06-30-2019, 05:29 PM
I have not read your article
Thank you for admitting your ignorance, and determination to stay that way.

What's your agenda other than disruption, and trying to change the topic to Joe Biden?

UWDude
06-30-2019, 05:32 PM
Thank you for admitting your ignorance, and determination to stay that way.

What's your agenda other than disruption, and trying to change the topic to Joe Biden?

Stop trying to change the subject, or I might report you.

Gotta stay focused on the topic at hand, K?

Swordsmyth
06-30-2019, 05:35 PM
How is that possible. If they are in sync, they are equal. You have stated multiple times Biden is actually better than Trump.



It's about you, why you started it, why you are here, and what your agenda is.
Why don't you just state your agenda clearly?

You saying Biden is better than Trump shows your cares about foreign policy have nothing to do with foreign policy, and everything to do with your hatred of Trump. There is no way Biden is better than Trump on foreign policy.

I am not trying to change your mind.

I am just pointing out your agenda is far beyond a non-interventionist America.
Somehow he doesn't seem to really care about abortion or illegals either even though he tries to attack Trump from the right on those too.

It's becoming totally obvious that he is either a terminal TDS victim or a Demoncrat LARPing as a conservative to undermine conservatives and elect Demoncrats.

UWDude
06-30-2019, 05:53 PM
Somehow he doesn't seem to really care about abortion or illegals either even though he tries to attack Trump from the right on those too.

It's becoming totally obvious that he is either a terminal TDS victim or a Demoncrat LARPing as a conservative to undermine conservatives and elect Demoncrats.

I was actually thinking of donating to Tulsi, because the owner of Gab just did. I thought it was a good idea to hedge your bets.

Then I remembered how the DNC gave Bernie's money to Hillary.

Ender
06-30-2019, 05:54 PM
Stop trying to change the subject, or I might report you.

Gotta stay focused on the topic at hand, K?

WHOA.

YOU changed the blinking subject- Caitlin Johnstone is an amazing freedom/liberty journalist & this subject has NOTHING to do with Biden. Also, Gabbard actually served in the military so she's not the average Dem/Rep drunken monkey who wants war everywhere as long as they can hide away.

So, read the article or STFU.

UWDude
06-30-2019, 05:57 PM
So, read the article or STFU.

I don't need to, I am sure I agree with every word of it.

Like I said, I almost donated to Gabbard... ..but then I remembered what happened to Bernies donations.
I'll not have my donations turned over to Biden or Warren or Harris.

Sorry. Not gonna fool me.