Judge blocks Trump from using billions in military funds for border wall

[Zippyjuan]

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/450987-judge-permanently-blocks-trump-from-using-billions-in-military-funds

He combined two cases and made what was a temporary injunction against using the funds on the wall a permanent one.


A federal judge on Friday issued a ruling blocking the Trump administration from tapping billions of dollars in military funds to construct a wall on the United States's southern border.

U.S. District Judge Haywood Gilliam issued the permanent injunction in a California federal court after initially ruling last month to temporarily halt the administration’s use of military funds for the border wall.

President Trump declared a national emergency earlier this year in order to divert roughly $6 billion in Defense Department funds toward border wall construction. Friday's ruling blocks the administration from using $2.5 billion in military funds for a border wall.

The injunction halts border wall construction at different sites in New Mexico, California, Arizona and Texas, expanding Gilliam's previous ruling.

Gilliam, an Obama appointee, made the ruling on the military funds in a lawsuit brought forward by several groups, including the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and the Sierra Club, challenging the diversion of the military funds under the scope of the national emergency order.

The Trump administration had argued that the use of the military funds was lawful under the scope of the national emergency, as the need for the funding was "unforeseen." And the lawyers claimed that if they are unable to award the federal dollars to contractors by the end of the fiscal year, they may lose the funding.

In his ruling Friday, Gilliam wrote that the administration lawyers "present no new evidence or argument for why the court should depart from its prior decision, and it will not."

"Because no new factual or legal arguments persuade the court that its analysis in the preliminary injunction order was wrong, [the groups’] likelihood of success on the merits has ripened into actual success," the ruling reads.

The judge also found that the groups suing to block use of military funds for the wall would suffer "irreparable harm" over border wall construction because it "will harm their ability to recreate in and otherwise enjoy public land along the border."

Gilliam wrote that while he does not "minimize" the administration's interest in border security, he determined that "the balance of hardships and public interest favors" is in favor of the groups opposing the wall. Still, the judge declined to rule on whether the Trump administration violated the National Environmental Policy Act.

"Congress was clear in denying funds for Trump’s xenophobic obsession with a wasteful, harmful wall," Dror Ladin, an attorney with the ACLU who argued for the injunction in court, said in a statement Friday. "This decision upholds the basic principle that the president has no power to spend taxpayer money without Congress’ approval."

And Gloria Smith, the managing attorney for the Sierra Club, said in a statement that the groups "applaud the court’s decision to protect our Constitution, communities, and the environment today."

"We've seen the damage that the ever-expanding border wall has inflicted on communities and the environment for decades. Walls divide neighborhoods, worsen dangerous flooding, destroy lands and wildlife, and waste resources that should instead be used on the infrastructure these communities truly need," the statement reads.

Gilliam also issued a ruling in a separate case stopping the Trump administration from moving forward with border wall construction in New Mexico and California while that legal challenge plays out.

The two border states had requested in a court filing earlier this month that the judge stop the construction, claiming it would damage the environment and infringe upon those states' rights.

The judge on Friday partially ruled in the states' favor but determined that they did not reach the bar needed for him to issue a permanent injunction in that case.

More at link.

[PAF]

Good.

Now if they would stop advertising free money to the world, maybe we can save a little bit of money and a tiny bit of freedom.

That “emergency” spending bill provided funds to UN and African refugees. And that $4.5 Billion the other day, they really must think Americans are stupid. Wait, hold on...

[PAF]

Too bad the article did not mention that that border contributes to a $1 Billion per day economy. Nobody in their right mind would purchase a home or business right next to a Berlin wall. The long term side effect would be people moving out, businesses closing and driving more people into the unemployment line. All while tanking property values.

[PAF]

And then folks would complain that too many people and companies are fleeing the border and relocating to other parts of the country while driving costs up. Many a tourism and working ranches down in those parts, during my last visit there a few months ago.

[nikcers]

Too bad the article did not mention that that border contributes to a $1 Billion per day economy. Nobody in their right mind would purchase a home or business right next to a Berlin wall. The long term side effect would be people moving out, businesses closing and driving more people into the unemployment line. All while tanking property values.

muh heroin

[Anti Federalist]

That “emergency” spending bill provided funds to UN and African refugees. And that $4.5 Billion the other day, they really must think Americans are stupid. Wait, hold on...

Always got money to spend on that.

[PAF]

muh heroin

Common Core, much? That sh|t is waaaayyyyy worse than heroin, my friend.

[nikcers]

Common Core, much? That sh|t is waaaayyyyy worse than heroin, my friend.

Yeah but heroin makes so much money for the state. You gotta pay to lock these people up, or give them meds so they don't come and take your children at night.

[PAF]

Yeah but heroin makes so much money for the state. You gotta pay to lock these people up, or give them meds so they don't come and take your children at night.

If you are looking to government to solve your problems you are asking all of the wrong questions.

[nikcers]

If you are looking to government to solve your problems you are asking all of the wrong questions.

Just government caused problems, the war on drugs is welfare for the state.

[Zippyjuan]

muh heroin

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/border-issues/2019/01/08/most-hard-drugs-get-smuggled-into-u-s-through-ports-entry/2517586002/


Meth, cocaine, heroin: Most gets smuggled through ports of entry. A wall won't stop it.

TUCSON — As President Donald Trump pushes Congress to set aside more money to build additional barriers along the U.S.-Mexico border, he frequently, and falsely, claims that his promised wall would help stem the flow of illegal narcotics into the country.

But data from his own administration repeatedly show that a rising number of smuggled drugs, especially more potent ones like heroin and cocaine, are increasingly seized at legal ports of entry, which are not impacted by a wall.

During a press conference Friday in the White House Rose Garden, Trump went so far as to claim that "drugs are pouring into this country," but that "they don’t go through the ports of entry."

"When they do, they sometimes get caught.”

Trump's comment conflicts with the numbers compiled by U.S. Customs and Border Protection, the agency responsible for enforcing the nation's laws along the U.S.-Mexico border.

The agency posted on its website the amounts of drugs seized in fiscal year 2018, but is missing data from September. The agency has not updated the totals because of the partial government shutdown, which has put restrictions on its communications offices.




While border agents seized 332 pounds of the deadly opioid, customs officers at the ports seized 1,357 pounds during that same time.


https://www.npr.org/2019/04/06/710712195/how-do-illegal-drugs-cross-the-u-s-mexico-border


KERLIKOWSKE: So the drugs that are actually taking the lives of people here in the United States - methamphetamine, cocaine, heroin, fentanyl - almost universally come through the ports of entry along the southern border - so that is people that carry them on their bodies or even in their bodies or cars or vehicles. And then the second way is through the international postal mail service.

MARTIN: And when you say most, what do you mean? Like, 50 percent, 60 percent, 90 percent?

KERLIKOWSKE: Oh, well over 90 percent. People don't backpack or try to sneak those drugs across the border between the ports of entry because, one, they could be caught by the Border Patrol. Number two, they don't really trust those people to do that. So it's much better for them to have somebody that is taking the drugs through a port of entry where they're met on the other side of the port here in the United States, and those drugs are immediately taken.

MARTIN: So you're saying, basically, virtually all of it comes through legal ports of entry.

KERLIKOWSKE: Those drugs. The marijuana actually does come from the ports or between the ports of entry because that's very large. It's in bulk. And so they'll try and bring it across in a truck or the river or backpack it in. But remember, marijuana seizures along the border have gone down consistently over the years. We have 10 states that have legalized it and the District of Columbia. So there's an awful lot of marijuana - and very high-end, unfortunately - high-end marijuana that's grown here in the United States.

[PAF]

Just government caused problems, the war on drugs is welfare for the state.

Agreed.

[nikcers]

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/border-issues/2019/01/08/most-hard-drugs-get-smuggled-into-u-s-through-ports-entry/2517586002/

You can't measure drugs coming over an open border.

[PAF]

You can't measure drugs coming over an open border.

Think of drugs like pizza.

Every time they ask me to make a pizza run, it’s usually gone by the time I return. Or a few slices anyway.

Maybe they toke it up on the way here and there is less available to distribute by the time they arrive.

[nikcers]

Think of drugs like pizza.

Every time they ask me to make a pizza run, it’s usually gone by the time I return. Or a few slices anyway.

Maybe they toke it up on the way here and there is less available to distribute by the time they arrive.

Just think of the feds as a gang, the more drugs they let in the more federal money they get to stop the drug problem.

[PAF]

Just think of the feds as a gang, the more drugs they let in the more federal money they get to stop the drug problem.

Which is why I say if government if left out of everything that would in itself solve most of the problems ;-)

[nikcers]

Which is why I say if government if left out of everything that would in itself solve most of the problems ;-)

Just the biggest ones, like giving people more incentives to come here illegally.

[Zippyjuan]

Just the biggest ones, like giving people more incentives to come here illegally.

Like letting them have jobs. That's why most of them come.

[nikcers]

Like letting them have jobs. That's why most of them come.

Lots of people move to get a job, less people would risk life and limb. Lets make the border like a giant hotel with free food and medicine...

[Zippyjuan]

Lots of people move to get a job, less people would risk life and limb. Lets make the border like a giant hotel with free food an medicine...

The fact that they are willing to risk life and limb and sometimes spend a month or more walking thousands of miles in 90 degree heat says they are not lazy people coming just so they can get free stuff. They can stay home and get free stuff.

Even Breitbart admits they are more likely to be working (in the labor force) than citizens.

https://www.breitbart.com/border/2015/03/28/hold-think-tank-illegal-immigrant-males-more-likely-to-be-in-workforce-than-legal-immigrants-us-born-men/


In 2012, the most recent year for which data is available, an estimated 91 percent of illegal immigrant males were in the workforce. This compares to 84 percent of legal immigrant men and 79 percent of U.S.-born males, Pew Research Center demographer Jeffrey Passel wrote in testimony prepared for a March 26 hearing held by the Senate Homeland Security & Government Affairs Committee.

[nikcers]

The fact that they are willing to risk life and limb and sometimes spend a month or more walking thousands of miles in 90 degree heat says they are not lazy people coming just so they can get free stuff. They can stay home and get free stuff.

I never said they were lazy people, I just said that making it easier to come here makes it more worth the effort?

[PAF]

Just the biggest ones, like giving people more incentives to come here illegally.

For the umpteenth time, “illegally” is a slave mentality concept, unless direct harm to person or property has taken place.

[nikcers]

For the umpteenth time, “illegally” is a slave mentality concept, unless direct harm to person or property has taken place.

If the government is going to put a gun to my head so they can make it easier for people to come here than its the same as if they put a gun to my head.

[PAF]

If the government is going to put a gun to my head so they can make it easier for people to come here than its the same as if they put a gun to my head.

Take it out on the corrupt politicians, not human beings trying to survive on this rock. We should be promoting liberty, freedom and fiscal responsibility - not tit for tat in support of government corruption.

[nikcers]

Take it out on the corrupt politicians, not human beings trying to survive on this rock. We should be promoting liberty, freedom and fiscal responsibility - not tit for tat in support of government corruption.

Why should I go to war with their government and their people that won't take care of their own?

[PAF]

Why should I go to war with their government and their people that won't take care of their own?

Like America and other countries around the world, government is more than usually the problem. Each have their good points and bad points, and areas to boot. Visit Mexico sometime. I am planning to retire there in a year or so ;-)


https://youtu.be/6lYA7c1Pnuo

[nikcers]

Like America and other countries around the world, government is more than usually the problem. Each have their good points and bad points, and areas to boot. Visit Mexico sometime. I am planning to retire there in a year or so ;-)


https://youtu.be/6lYA7c1Pnuo

I hope you don't end up like "John Galton". I will probably work till I am dead to support Carlos Slim, and the corrupt drug cartel ran governments in South America.

[AdamL]

I'm glad to see that none of our military funds will be wasted defending our country. Our troops in the middle east fighting on the frontlines for the freedoms of our allies in Israel need that money.

[PAF]

I'm glad to see that none of our military funds will be wasted defending our country. Our troops in the middle east need that money so they can fight for the freedoms of our allies in Israel.

1. Build your own private fence on your own private property with your own money. I am tired of paying “nationalistic” welfare, and infringing upon others rights to their own private property and businesses.

2. Call your representative. Let him know that you value the right to travel freely, that we do not need a Berlin Wall or “papers please” to differentiate between “them” and “us”, and that as your representative you want Welfare/Free handouts to STOP. Let him know that you fully support the Bill of Rights.

3. If groups of people are troubling your home or your community, buy your own gun with your own money, and perhaps take an initiative to form a local militia like in my area. Standing armies are a drain to society and do not have your best interest at heart. The founders (anti-feds) warned you about that.

4. Please refrain from watching TV, try to reverse the damage the FedDeptEd caused and pull your mind out of that Matrix.

Then you should be good to go .

[nikcers]

1. Build your own private fence on your own private property with your own money. I am tired of paying “nationalistic” welfare, and infringing upon others rights to their own private property and businesses.

2. Call your representative. Let him know that you value the right to travel freely, that we do not need a Berlin Wall or “papers please” to differentiate between “them” and “us”, and that as your representative you want Welfare/Free handouts to STOP. Let him know that you fully support the Bill of Rights.

3. If groups of people are troubling your home or your community, buy your own gun with your own money, and perhaps take an initiative to form a local militia like in my area. Standing armies are a drain to society and do not have your best interest at heart. The founders (anti-feds) warned you about that.

4. Please refrain from watching TV, try to reverse the damage the FedDeptEd caused and pull your mind out of that Matrix.

Then you should be good to go .

Please just take your stuff and leave the country if you hate it so much. I don't have to support pirates just because you want to, most of those people are sending money back to their corrupt governments to the tune of it being huge percentages of their GDP.

[juleswin]

Just know that Trump and the GOP has the house and senate for 2 yrs and did nothing to advance the financing of this wall. He could have asked for the money then to finance a major campaign promise but he refused. And don't tell me that congress was in his way because he could have gotten the money if he fought for it the way he fights for Saudi Arabia and Israel.

[PAF]

Please just take your stuff and leave the country if you hate it so much. I don't have to support pirates just because you want to, most of those people are sending money back to their corrupt governments to the tune of it being huge percentages of their GDP.

The video that I posted above outlines why they are Fed up with our government. Perhaps watch it, and reflect.

Don’t get wrong, if I was not forced to pay multi-gen American Section 8 in my area, I might have decided to stay.

Why is everybody mad at me for what this centralist globalist government does to you? I am simply trying to someway, somehow, reverse the trend. I am on your side! With the exception of demanding a federalize police state, that is.

[PAF]

Just know that Trump and the GOP has the house and senate for 2 yrs and did nothing to advance the financing of this wall. He could have asked for the money then to finance a major campaign promise but he refused. And don't tell me that congress was in his way because he could have gotten the money if he fought for it the way he fights for Saudi Arabia and Israel.


I like the OP decision, as well as post #’s 2, 3 and 4.

Did you read them?

[nikcers]

The video that I posted above outlines why they are Fed up with our government. Perhaps watch it, and reflect.

Don’t get wrong, if I was not forced to pay multi-gen American Section 8 in my area, I might have decided to stay.

Why is everybody mad at me for what this centralist globalist government does to you? I am simply trying to someway, somehow, reverse the trend. I am on your side! With the exception of demanding a federalize police state, that is.

I will probably spend most of my days giving back to my community, there aren't many on my side.

[juleswin]

I like the OP decision, as well as post #’s 2, 3 and 4.

Did you read them?

This?


In his ruling Friday, Gilliam wrote that the administration lawyers "present no new evidence or argument for why the court should depart from its prior decision, and it will not."

"Because no new factual or legal arguments persuade the court that its analysis in the preliminary injunction order was wrong, [the groups’] likelihood of success on the merits has ripened into actual success," the ruling reads.

[Swordsmyth]

Just know that Trump and the GOP has the house and senate for 2 yrs and did nothing to advance the financing of this wall. He could have asked for the money then to finance a major campaign promise but he refused. And don't tell me that congress was in his way because he could have gotten the money if he fought for it the way he fights for Saudi Arabia and Israel.
RINOs don't count.

[Swordsmyth]

Why is everybody mad at me for what this centralist globalist government does to you? I am simply trying to someway, somehow, reverse the trend. I am on your side! With the exception of demanding a federalize police state, that is.
Because you are giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

There is a name for that and those who earn it are never popular.

[Swordsmyth]

The commie judge will be overruled.

[juleswin]

RINOs don't count.

Yes but RINOs are still better than an AOC. He should have pushed for this bill when he at least had RINOs to work with. Doing it now gives people like me the impression that he was never serious about the wall. Ofc, he can convince me by fighting for this wall the way he fought for the sales of arms to Saudi Arabia.

[Swordsmyth]

Yes but RINOs are still better than an AOC. He should have pushed for this bill when he at least had RINOs to work with. Doing it now gives people like me the impression that he was never serious about the wall. Ofc, he can convince me by fighting for this wall the way he fought for the sales of arms to Saudi Arabia.
He is.

[juleswin]

He is.

Yea, while he is about to sign a $4.5 billion welfare for immigrants. Something tells me that this is one battle he will lose. Mark my words, the democrats will defeat the almighty Trump on this campaign promise. All his fighting will only amount to crumbs small just big enough to satiate his gullible supporters

[PAF]

Because you are giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

There is a name for that and those who earn it are never popular.


Uh oh. I don’t think Ron would appreciate your remarks to him. Just wait until I see him again and show him your posts. Ron has always said “If you’re not having fun you’re not doing it right”. We will have a great laugh, indeed. Even though it is sad.



The commie judge will be overruled.


What, respecting private property and business rights, saving money on a useless wall, not funneling people into entrance processing points which would help enable them to access bennies?

Did you ever consider for a moment that as corrupt as this government is, maybe trump and some others hear what Ron has to say from time to time? You know, unlike you?




https://youtu.be/1VWLBWstWpM

[Swordsmyth]

Uh oh. I don’t think Ron would appreciate your remarks to him. Just wait until I see him again and show him your posts. Ron has always said “If you’re not having fun you’re not doing it right”. We will have a great laugh, indeed. Even though it is sad.



What, respecting private property and business rights, saving money on a useless wall, not funneling people into entrance processing points which would help enable them to access bennies?

Did you ever consider for a moment that as corrupt as this government is, maybe trump and some others hear what Ron has to say from time to time? You know, unlike you?




https://youtu.be/1VWLBWstWpM
Ron used to be stronger on the border and I support his old position but he doesn't advocate against all border and immigration control and in favor of the invaders as you do.

[PAF]

Ron used to be stronger on the border and I support his old position but he doesn't advocate against all border and immigration control and in favor of the invaders as you do.

First of all they are not “invaders”. Trump, government & Co. are welcoming them with open arms, offering them all kinds of free and fun stuff.

If you think I advocate any kind of welfare whatsoever, you are sadly, sadly mistaken. Remember, I am an “anarchist” according to you, who if I had MY choice would dissolve this pathetic government organization immediately. Then, people would have to work and leave my money alone. That includes wasteful spending for walls, Omnibus, “emergency” spending for African refugees and $4.5 Billion in government please help me funds.

Swordy, take a guess who is more wasteful in spending... me, or YOU? (I gave you a little HINT if you can find it)

And don’t get me started about the cause and effect of those businesses down there closing up shop, putting more folks on unemployment and government assist, not to mention they would more than likely relocate to other areas of the country.

[Swordsmyth]

U.S. President Donald Trump on Saturday appealed a U.S. judge’s ruling that blocked his administration from using $2.5 billion in funds intended for anti-drug activities to construct a wall along the southern border with Mexico. U.S. Department of Justice lawyers said in a court filing that they were formally appealing Friday’s ruling to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.
“[W]e’re immediately appealing it, and we think we’ll win the appeal,” Trump said during a press conference on Saturday at a summit of leaders of the Group of 20 (G20) major economies in Japan.
“There was no reason that that should’ve happened,” Trump said.

More at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-court/trump-vows-appeal-after-us-federal-judge-blocks-use-of-some-border-wall-funds-idUSKCN1TU0R1

[PAF]

U.S. President Donald Trump on Saturday appealed a U.S. judge’s ruling that blocked his administration from using $2.5 billion in funds intended for anti-drug activities to construct a wall along the southern border with Mexico. U.S. Department of Justice lawyers said in a court filing that they were formally appealing Friday’s ruling to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.
“[W]e’re immediately appealing it, and we think we’ll win the appeal,” Trump said during a press conference on Saturday at a summit of leaders of the Group of 20 (G20) major economies in Japan.
“There was no reason that that should’ve happened,” Trump said.

More at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-court/trump-vows-appeal-after-us-federal-judge-blocks-use-of-some-border-wall-funds-idUSKCN1TU0R1


The “War on Drugs” is fun to talk about.

So are private property and contract rights, tourism, ranches, businesses and economies, Bill of Rights and other things.

But as long as you pretend to support those things, you get an easy pass for rejecting them.

This forum sounds just like the government they pretend to hate.

[juleswin]

The “War on Drugs” is fun to talk about.

So are private property and contract rights, tourism, ranches, businesses and economies, Bill of Rights and other things.

But as long as you pretend to support those things, you get an easy pass for rejecting them.

This forum sounds just like the government they pretend to hate.

My whole deal is that Trump ran on the message of building a wall on the southern border. He won, held onto the senate and the house and because of it I expect him to try and build it. I don't particularly care for it but building a wall is not unconstitutional so the least he could do is to try and fulfill that campaign promise.

[timosman]

Too bad the article did not mention that that border contributes to a $1 Billion per day economy. Nobody in their right mind would purchase a home or business right next to a Berlin wall. The long term side effect would be people moving out, businesses closing and driving more people into the unemployment line. All while tanking property values.

Wealth is bad. I want to be poor. :tears:

[timosman]

My whole deal is that Trump ran on the message of building a wall on the southern border. He won, held onto the senate and the house and because of it I expect him to try and build it. I don't particularly care for it but building a wall is not unconstitutional so the least he could do is to try and fulfill that campaign promise.

They are making sure he won't accomplish that. :tears:

[timosman]

Too bad the article did not mention that that border contributes to a $1 Billion per day economy. Nobody in their right mind would purchase a home or business right next to a Berlin wall. The long term side effect would be people moving out, businesses closing and driving more people into the unemployment line. All while tanking property values.

We could deport them all for free? :confused:

[juleswin]

They are making sure he won't accomplish that. :tears:

I think he and the dems are playing games with his supporters. I still think Trump is a fraud but if he is able to fight the dems and the RINOs and build it, this will help in convincing me that he is not working for the deep state. He still needs to do more but it would be one sign.

[timosman]

I think he and the dems are playing games with his supporters. I still think Trump is a fraud but if he is able to fight the dems and the RINOs and build it, this will help in convincing me that he is not working for the deep state. He still needs to do more but it would be one sign.

I actually could support such a deep state. :tears:

[PAF]

Wealth is bad. I want to be poor. :tears:

You are free to buy beautiful resort property down at the border once the wall is up. I am certain beyond a reasonable doubt that you will be able to pick it up rock bottom pricing. Perhaps you can offer bicycle tours along the wall, circle back at one of the entry/exit points to tour the other side.

I have frequented the border quite a few times and enjoyed the natural beauty. I was there a few month ago to check out what was going on with sections of that wall, I can promise you I will never return again. Not so much of a loss for me, I’ll visit elsewhere. Too bad for the folks down there who are/will be adversely affected.

But then, rather than blame government for advertising and giving away free stuff.... YOU, like gubermint, know what is best for other people.

[timosman]

You are free to buy beautiful resort property down at the border once the wall is up. I am certain beyond a reasonable doubt that you will be able to pick it up rock bottom pricing. Perhaps you can offer bicycle tours along the wall, circle back at one of the entry/exit points to tour the other side.

I have frequented the border quite a few times and enjoyed the natural beauty. I was there a few month ago to check out what was going on with sections of that wall, I can promise you I will never return again. Not so much of a loss for me, I’ll visit elsewhere. Too bad for the folks down there who are/will be adversely affected.

But then, rather than blame government for advertising and giving away free stuff.... YOU, like gubermint, know what is best for other people.

Is there anything else we haven't tried? Or is the grand strategy yet to be discovered? :confused:

[nikcers]

You are free to buy beautiful resort property down at the border once the wall is up. I am certain beyond a reasonable doubt that you will be able to pick it up rock bottom pricing. Perhaps you can offer bicycle tours along the wall, circle back at one of the entry/exit points to tour the other side.

I have frequented the border quite a few times and enjoyed the natural beauty. I was there a few month ago to check out what was going on with sections of that wall, I can promise you I will never return again. Not so much of a loss for me, I’ll visit elsewhere. Too bad for the folks down there who are/will be adversely affected.

But then, rather than blame government for advertising and giving away free stuff.... YOU, like gubermint, know what is best for other people.

I've never seen a gated community with high property values...

[PAF]

Is there anything else we haven't tried? Or is the grand strategy yet to be discovered? :confused:

Sure. But you will reject it.

The government does not care about Rights, property, contract, business or otherwise, for ordinary people. They are going to continue to advertise free welfare for all no matter what party holds office. At this juncture, I would preserve whatever said rights we have, and if you or I are not from that state, ignore the problem. The folks down there running resorts, ranches and farms, businesses, are not down and out broke. If they wanted a wall, they surely would have erected one by now, and certainly can do so now if they feel the need, on their own property with their own money. Some have, others have not, because they know that it would adversely affect their businesses. I was at that border and talked to folks so that I would understand their reality.

Worse case, let it be a states right issue, barring the Fed from taking over land they have no rightful ownership over. Folks complain that property rights no longer exist, it is because of people sacrificing principle, making exceptions and allowing it to happen. Just like 911/TSA.

Read my sig.

[timosman]

Sure. But you will reject it.

The government does not care about Rights, property, contract, business or otherwise, for ordinary people. They are going to continue to advertise free welfare for all no matter what party holds office. At this juncture, I would preserve whatever said rights we have, and if you or I are not from that state, ignore the problem. The folks down there running resorts, ranches and farms, businesses, are not down and out broke. If they wanted a wall, they surely would have erected one by now, and certainly can do so now if they feel the need, on their own property with their own money. Some have, others have not, because they know that it would adversely affect their businesses. I was at that border and talked to folks so that I would understand their reality.

Worse case, let it be a states right issue, barring the Fed from taking over land they have no rightful ownership over. Folks complain that property rights no longer exist, it is because of people sacrificing principle, making exceptions and allowing it to happen. Just like 911/TSA.

Read my sig.

Don't the feds already have the land next to the border? :confused:

[PAF]

I've never seen a gated community with high property values...


Conservatives are outraged:



https://youtu.be/2tyclMsy7sU

[nikcers]

Conservatives are outraged:



https://youtu.be/2tyclMsy7sU

You mean the ones that voted for Trump?

[timosman]

Conservatives are outraged:

Can Trump cut a deal before the cases are in court?

[PAF]

Don't the feds already have the land next to the border? :confused:

The answer is absolutely no. This is why I took the time to actually go down there and research/interview myself, due to corrupt media/government.

The actual border is the Rio Grande, miles and miles away from where the wall is being built. I posted a thread with all of the pertinent information, maps of the wall and the actual border, and videos of businesses that have bellied up under Obama when he erected portions of the wall. Towns, families, resorts and businesses were affected and ripped apart. It caused unemployment, divided families and a host of other problems NOT being reported in the “news”. This is NOT just about building a wall to keep “invaders” out, it is to transfer control to the government.

I would not be going on about this if it was not true. You guys should know me well by now, my involvement and contributions to the liberty movement. The information is out there, if you just take some time you will see for yourself.

[PAF]

Can Trump cut a deal before the cases are in court?

That is up to the individual property and business owners, not me, you or the general public. Some have cut a deal, others absolutely refuse, because they are multi-million dollar industries that operate and rely on border activity. There is a $1 Billion Per Day economy that fuels the rest of the United States. It is not just a simple Walmart closing, there is agriculture, heavy equipment manufacturers, tourism, and a host of other businesses which employ millions of people.

[timosman]

That is up to the individual property and business owners, not me, you or the general public. Some have cut a deal, others absolutely refuse, because they are multi-million dollar industries that operate and rely on border activity. There is a $1 Billion Per Day economy that fuels the rest of the United States. It is not just a simple Walmart closing, there is agriculture, heavy equipment manufacturers, tourism, and a host of other businesses which employ millions of people.

I think you are missing a few industries. :tears:

[Ender]

Please just take your stuff and leave the country if you hate it so much. I don't have to support pirates just because you want to, most of those people are sending money back to their corrupt governments to the tune of it being huge percentages of their GDP.

Everything you're supporting is .gov caused.The WoD is totally the cause of any drugs crossing the border. Most of S America's probs are caused by the US taking their resources.

The simple answer is end the WoD, the WoT, no incentives, let the free market alone, & bring the troops home- but oh that's too hard, so let's just continue to spend trillions enslaving Americans- amirite?

[Swordsmyth]

Everything you're supporting is .gov caused.The WoD is totally the cause of any drugs crossing the border. Most of S America's probs are caused by the US taking their resources.

The simple answer is end the WoD, the WoT, no incentives, let the free market alone, & bring the troops home- but oh that's too hard, so let's just continue to spend trillions enslaving Americans- amirite?
That's all good but it isn't enough and it doesn't do any good to solve the short term existential crisis.

[Ender]

That's all good but it isn't enough and it doesn't do any good to solve the short term existential crisis.

Those aren't short term- those are THE cause of any border probs.

[nikcers]

Everything you're supporting is .gov caused.The WoD is totally the cause of any drugs crossing the border. Most of S America's probs are caused by the US taking their resources.

The simple answer is end the WoD, the WoT, no incentives, let the free market alone, & bring the troops home- but oh that's too hard, so let's just continue to spend trillions enslaving Americans- amirite?

Look I can debunk your arguments if you want but you normally don't respond when I do. Like when you say socialism works the only reason why it doesn't is because America... They are all good christians except they overwhelming vote for the party that is pro abortion when they come here... They don't treat women like property except they had to pass a law making it illegal for them to treat women like property...

[Swordsmyth]

Look I can debunk your arguments if you want but you normally don't respond when I do. Like when you say socialism works the only reason why it doesn't is because America... They are all good christians except they overwhelming vote for the party that is pro abortion when they come here... They don't treat women like property except they had to pass a law making it illegal for them to treat women like property...

They come here to work and don't get welfare but ending welfare will solve the problem.
The wall won't keep them out but it will keep us in.

[AdamL]

1. Build your own private fence on your own private property with your own money. I am tired of paying “nationalistic” welfare, and infringing upon others rights to their own private property and businesses.

2. Call your representative. Let him know that you value the right to travel freely, that we do not need a Berlin Wall or “papers please” to differentiate between “them” and “us”, and that as your representative you want Welfare/Free handouts to STOP. Let him know that you fully support the Bill of Rights.

3. If groups of people are troubling your home or your community, buy your own gun with your own money, and perhaps take an initiative to form a local militia like in my area. Standing armies are a drain to society and do not have your best interest at heart. The founders (anti-feds) warned you about that.

4. Please refrain from watching TV, try to reverse the damage the FedDeptEd caused and pull your mind out of that Matrix.

Then you should be good to go .

1. This kind of "every man for himself" radical individualism is just straight up anti-reality. I get where you're coming from, I really do, but this ain't it, fam. A healthy nation can and should collectively decide who can or cannot be a part of said nation if it wishes to continue to exist. This is why we have borders. Considering your position here is the antisocial one, perhaps it is you who would be happier walling yourself off from the rest of us. On your own private property of course. And stay off muh roads while you do it, too!

2. I don't even necessarily support or oppose the wall, I actually see it as a mostly pointless endeavor akin to applying a bandage when you're bleeding internally. I just enjoy the absolute absurdity of the government blocking the use of military funds for defending its own border, while using that money to defend the borders of other countries is totally, uh, kosher...

3. You do realize that this is extremely illegal in this day and age, right? I don't think it should be, but we are really fooking far from the libertarian wonderland that you seem to think we can just will into existence overnight where citizens can just get together to gun down people crossing the border.

4. I don't watch TV. It's not I who's mind in still lost in the Matrix, fren. Take the red pill...

[Anti Federalist]

https://i0.wp.com/www.bookwormroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Immigration-not-a-concentration-camp-if-you-can-leave.jpg?zoom=1.25&resize=565%2C408