TRUMP/GABBARD 2020

[Jamesiv1]

Why not?

Tulsi is a smart, reasonable woman. What a unifying effect it would have on the country.

Trump/Paul would be a major step forward of course... But having a Democrat female as a running mate would be a masterstroke.

The mainstream media and Democrat establishment hate her, which is a big plus.

4D chess at it's finest.

[Swordsmyth]

I don't think Trump wants to give the left an extra incentive to assassinate him.

[twomp]

Sounds better than Trump/Pence

[Anti Globalist]

I don't think Trump would ever choose her for anything let alone as a running mate.

[enhanced_deficit]

Why not?
..

Not possible, Gabbard had made some statements very critical of our closest ally and would never pass smell test by Jarvanka and top donors (although top donors would be exiting anyway very likely).

More natural ticket would be:

Trump-Booker 2020 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?536024-Trump-Haley-in-2020&p=6818858&viewfull=1#post6818858)

[kahless]

Not possible, Gabbard had made some statements very critical of our closest ally and would never pass smell test by Jarvanka and top donors (although top donors would be exiting anyway very likely).

More natural ticket would be:

Trump-Booker 2020 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?536024-Trump-Haley-in-2020&p=6818858&viewfull=1#post6818858)

I would still vote for Trump with Gabbard on the ticket but not way in hell with Booker.

[Origanalist]

I would still vote for Trump with Gabbard on the ticket but not way in hell with Booker.

https://cdn.minds.com/fs/v1/thumbnail/991450792243789824/xlarge

[dannno]

Not possible, Gabbard had made some statements very critical of our closest ally and would never pass smell test by Jarvanka and top donors (although top donors would be exiting anyway very likely).

More natural ticket would be:

Trump-Booker 2020 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?536024-Trump-Haley-in-2020&p=6818858&viewfull=1#post6818858)


Seriously, where do you come up with this stuff?

[oyarde]

I would vote for the Libertarian

[euphemia]

No. No. No.

Gabbard = #nochildbornalive

[Swordsmyth]

Why not?

Tulsi is a smart, reasonable woman. What a unifying effect it would have on the country.

Trump/Paul would be a major step forward of course... But having a Democrat female as a running mate would be a masterstroke.

The mainstream media and Democrat establishment hate her, which is a big plus.

4D chess at it's finest.
A much better idea:

Memo To Trump: Trade Bolton For Tulsi (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-28/memo-trump-trade-bolton-tulsi)

[oyarde]

https://cdn.minds.com/fs/v1/thumbnail/991450792243789824/xlarge

Nah , libertarians are just secretly excited about voting for a dem with a 30 percent freedom index.

[trey4sports]

im not sure why the whole liberty movement is on-board with her campaign. she has a couple bad votes on AUMF if i remember correctly and on top of that she is terrible on everything that is not foreign policy. medicare for all? Green new deal?

[Swordsmyth]

im not sure why the whole liberty movement is on-board with her campaign. she has a couple bad votes on AUMF if i remember correctly and on top of that she is terrible on everything that is not foreign policy. medicare for all? Green new deal?
Yes, noninterventionists are so desperate to hear good things that they get carried away and don't stop to look for hypocrisy or poison pills.

[kahless]

Well if the choices are: Trump/Booker or Trump/Gabbard or Trump/Bolton vs Bill Weld and any of the 20 Dems running?

I am not happy about Gabbard but still better than Bolton, Booker on the VP pick compared to Weld and any of the 20 Dems running. So I would hold my nose and still vote for Trump in that case.

Just saying can't do it with Booker or Bolton.

[euphemia]

Well if the choices are: Trump/Booker or Trump/Gabbard or Trump/Bolton vs Bill Weld and any of the 20 Dems running?

I am not happy about Gabbard but still better than Bolton, Booker on the VP pick compared to Weld and any of the 20 Dems running. So I would hold my nose and still vote for Trump in that case.

Just saying can't do it with Booker or Bolton.

Never. Not in a million years.

[twomp]

im not sure why the whole liberty movement is on-board with her campaign. she has a couple bad votes on AUMF if i remember correctly and on top of that she is terrible on everything that is not foreign policy. medicare for all? Green new deal?

Not saying anyone should vote for her but the AUMF was voted on in 2001? She didn't get to congress until a few years ago. Are you referring to the annual NDAA?

[twomp]

Nah , libertarians are just secretly excited about voting for a dem with a 30 percent freedom index.

Out of curiosity. How does Donald Trump do on the freedom index?

[Swordsmyth]

Not saying anyone should vote for her but the AUMF was voted on in 2001? She didn't get to congress until a few years ago. Are you referring to the annual NDAA?
Here are some examples:

https://www.thenewamerican.com/freedom-index

Dist.2: Tulsi Gabbard (https://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=38&Itemid=828&nameid=G000571) - 31%





H RES 397: NATO (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/115/hres397)


Vote Date: June 27, 2017
Vote: AYE (http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2017/roll328.xml)
http://www.thenewamerican.com/images/0.jpg
Bad Vote.


This legislation (H. Res. 397) “solemnly reaffirms the commitment of the United States to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s principle of collective defense as enumerated in Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty.” Under Article 5, the member nations of the NATO military alliance “agree that an armed attack against one or more of them ... shall be considered an attack against them all.”

The House passed H. Res. 397 on June 27, 2017 by a lopsided vote of 423 to 4 (Roll Call 328). We have assigned pluses to the nays not only because the United States should stay clear of entangling alliances such as NATO, but also because the NATO provision that obligates the United States to go to war if any member of NATO is attacked undermines the provision in the U.S. Constitution that assigns to Congress the power to declare war. Moreover, the number of nations that the United States has pledged to defend under NATO has grown from 11 to 28 over the years, as the alliance itself has grown from 12 member nations (including the United States) when NATO was created in 1949 to 29 today. Although NATO was ostensibly formed to counter the threat from the Soviet bloc of nations, some of the nations the United States is now pledged to defend under NATO were once part of that bloc, including Albania, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic (as part of Czechoslovakia), Hungary, Poland, and Romania.









H R 5293: Authorization for Use of Military Force (http://www.opencongress.org/vote/2016/h/330)


Vote Date: June 16, 2016
Vote: NAY (http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2016/roll330.xml)
http://www.thenewamerican.com/images/0.jpg
Bad Vote.


During consideration of the Defense Appropriations bill (H.R. 5293), Representative Barbara Lee (D-Calif.) introduced an amendment to prohibit the use of funds in the bill for the 2001 Authorization for Use of Military Force Act. Enacted in the wake of 9/11, the AUMF authorized the president to “use all necessary and appropriate force” against the terrorists involved, as well as those who aided or harbored them. It was used as the authorization for U.S. military entry into Afghanistan in 2001, and over the years has also been invoked on other occasions by the executive branch to justify U.S. military intervention abroad.

The House rejected Lee’s amendment on June 16, 2016 by a vote of 146 to 274 (Roll Call 330). We have assigned pluses to the yeas because presidents have been able to claim broad authority to go to war whenever or wherever they choose under the AUMF, despite the fact that the Founding Fathers never intended for one man to make this decision, and under the Constitution only Congress may “declare war.”










H R 4909: Use of Military Force (http://www.opencongress.org/vote/2016/h/210)


Vote Date: May 18, 2016
Vote: NAY (http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2016/roll210.xml)
http://www.thenewamerican.com/images/0.jpg
Bad Vote.


During consideration of the National Defense Authorization Act (H.R. 4909), Representative Barbara Lee (D-Calif.) introduced an amendment to repeal the Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF) that was enacted in 2001 for the purpose of authorizing U.S. military intervention in Afghanistan in the wake of the 9/11 terror attacks. Since then, however, the AUMF has been invoked numerous times by the executive branch for U.S. military intervention not only in Afghanistan but elsewhere.

The House rejected Lee’s amendment on May 18, 2016 by a vote of 138 to 285 (Roll Call 210). We have assigned pluses to the yeas because presidents have been able to claim broad authority to go to war whenever or wherever they choose under the AUMF, despite the fact that the Founding Fathers never intended for one man to make this decision, and under the Constitution only Congress may “declare war.”




H RES 162: Calling on the President to provide Ukraine with military assistance to defend its sovereignty and territorial integrity. (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/114/hres162)


Vote Date: March 23, 2015
Vote: AYE (http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2015/roll131.xml)
http://www.thenewamerican.com/images/0.jpg
Bad Vote.


Ukraine Military Aid.
House Resolution 162, which calls on the president "to provide Ukraine with military assistance to defend its sovereignty and territorial integrity," allows President Obama to provide Ukraine with defensive weapons to defend against aggression from Russia.

The House adopted H. Res. 162 on March 23, 2015 by a vote of 348 to 48 (Roll Call 131). We have assigned pluses to the nays not only because foreign aid is unconstitutional but also because this bill would further interject the United States into a foreign conflict. Allowing the U.S. president to provide lethal arms to Ukraine in order to fight Russia is tantamount to waging a proxy war on Russia without the constitutionally required congressional declaration of war. The House, by giving such power to the president, is relinquishing one of its constitutional responsibilities.




H R 4870: On Agreeing to the Amendment 51 to H R 4870 (http://www.opencongress.org/vote/2014/h/328)


Vote Date: June 19, 2014
Vote: NAY (http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2014/roll328.xml)
http://www.thenewamerican.com/images/0.jpg
Bad Vote.


Weapons to Syrian Rebels.
During consideration of the Defense Appropriations bill, Representative Jeff Fortenberry (R-Neb.) introduced an amendment that would have prohibited any funding in the bill from being used to provide weapons to Syrian rebels. Fortenberry noted on the House floor that "the rebel movement is a battleground of shifting alliances and bloody conflicts between groups that now include multinational terrorist organizations," that "sending our weapons into this chaotic war zone could inadvertently help these extremists," and that "it has already happened." He added: "The naive notion that we can deliver weapons to vetted, moderate opposition groups at war with other rebel militias gives no guarantee that our weaponry won't be seized or diverted."

The House rejected Fortenberry's amendment on June 19, 2014 by a vote of 167 to 244 (Roll Call 328). We have assigned pluses to the yeas because arming "moderate" rebels in a foreign country is tantamount to going to war, which would require a declaration of war by Congress. Also, the United States should follow the Founders' advice not to become involved in foreign quarrels


















H R 4152: To provide for the costs of loan guarantees for Ukraine (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr4152)


Vote Date: April 1, 2014
Vote: AYE (http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2014/roll149.xml)
http://www.thenewamerican.com/images/0.jpg
Bad Vote.


Ukraine Aid.

This bill (H.R. 4152), as amended by the Senate (see Senate vote below), would provide $150 million for direct aid to Ukraine. It would also provide for loan guarantees (meaning that U.S. taxpayers would be stuck holding the bag if the loans are not paid). And it would impose sanctions on Russian and ex-Ukrainian officials deemed responsible for the crisis in the Ukraine.

[ The Senate version of this legislation - offered in the form of a substitute amendment to the House version, H.R. 4152 - would provide $150 million for direct aid to Ukraine. It would also provide for loan guarantees (meaning that the U.S. taxpayers would be stuck holding the bag if the loans are not paid). And it would impose sanctions on Russian and ex-Ukrainian officials deemed responsible for the crisis in the Ukraine. ]

The House voted for this legislation on April 1, 2014 by a vote of 378 to 34 (Roll Call 149). We have assigned pluses to the nays because foreign aid is unconstitutional. The rationale for providing U.S. aid to Ukraine is that the country needs our assistance to resist Russian hegemony and build "democracy." Yet the oligarchs wielding power in Ukraine are hardly "democrats," and (because money is fungible) U.S. assistance could effectively be funneled to Russia in the form of Ukrainian energy and debt payments.

[Swordsmyth]

Out of curiosity. How does Donald Trump do on the freedom index?
Since he isn't in Congress he isn't listed there.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I would vote for the Libertarian

I voted for Ron Paul, not the libertarian party.

[oyarde]

Out of curiosity. How does Donald Trump do on the freedom index?

Not listed but my guess is just slightly better than libertarian party spokesman Sarwark .

[oyarde]

I voted for Ron Paul, not the libertarian party.

I voted for Rand in the primary and for myself in the general . Planning on voting for myself again , but I would never consider voting for trump if he picked any dem house or senate member as vp . That would be the same as actually voting for one of these commie dem candidates . Trump could actually lose the election by a landslide by picking a dem .

[devil21]

im not sure why the whole liberty movement is on-board with her campaign. she has a couple bad votes on AUMF if i remember correctly and on top of that she is terrible on everything that is not foreign policy. medicare for all? Green new deal?

I don't think they are? Or at least not the ones that have seen this movie before. I expect that the "Dem establishment hates her" line that the OP (a poster of questionable intelligence or questionable intentions, if he still thinks Trump isn't fully controlled and complicit) floated would be very similar to the "establishment hates Trump" nonsense that was floated in 2016. Since it worked so well to get NYC billionaire life-long Democrat donor Trump into the WH as a populist Republican, I don't see why they wouldn't run the same playbook on the left, when people are clamoring for something new.

[r3volution 3.0]

Trump won't be the next POTUS, nor will amused assorted retarded Democrats,..

...

I'tll be Biden.

[Swordsmyth]

Trump won't be the next POTUS, nor will be assorted retarded Democrats,

I'tll be Biden.
LOL

[r3volution 3.0]

LOL44


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBRhoB5V_fA

[Brian4Liberty]

I’d vote for Trump/Brat.

Dave should be available.

[r3volution 3.0]

If clowns were politicians, that would be an opportunity to walk past circus clowns, and not care about them even a little.

[Origanalist]

im not sure why the whole liberty movement is on-board with her campaign. she has a couple bad votes on AUMF if i remember correctly and on top of that she is terrible on everything that is not foreign policy. medicare for all? Green new deal?

The whole liberty movement? I don't think so, I'm not. I bet if you did a poll here she would get 25 % or less.

[Origanalist]

Since he isn't in Congress he isn't listed there.

How would you rate him?

[Swordsmyth]

How would you rate him?
Somewhere in the 70's, just barely a net benefit.

He is least of all possible goods which is much better than any other POTUS we have had in a very long time.

[Origanalist]

Somewhere in the 70's, just barely a net benefit.

He is least of all possible goods which is much better than any other POTUS we have had in a very long time.

I don't give him anything close to that but at least he's entertaining. Bush was such a bore.

[PAF]

Somewhere in the 70's, just barely a net benefit.

He is least of all possible goods which is much better than any other POTUS we have had in a very long time.

That's a bit high. If I had to rate him based on his current record I would put him at about 45%.

[oyarde]

That's a bit high. If I had to rate him based on his current record I would put him at about 45%.

I would go 51 at least and the dem's in the house and senate a solid sub 10 .

[PAF]

I would go 51 at least and the dem's in the house and senate a solid sub 10 .

Ok, 51 max. Anymore would be totally stretching it.

That's still pretty sad though. Mike Kelly R-PA-CD3 is 56% and I keep telling him that he seriously should run on a D ticket. He thinks it's funny and laughs.

[brushfire]

Someone please cover me for originalist - I'm outa rep


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?536135-TRUMP-GABBARD-2020&p=6820465&viewfull=1#post6820465

[Swordsmyth]

I don't give him anything close to that but at least he's entertaining. Bush was such a bore.


That's a bit high. If I had to rate him based on his current record I would put him at about 45%.
You guys think things about him are bad that I think are good, like the tariffs.

[Swordsmyth]

Ok, 51 max. Anymore would be totally stretching it.

That's still pretty sad though. Mike Kelly R-PA-CD3 is 56% and I keep telling him that he seriously should run on a D ticket. He thinks it's funny and laughs.
The Dems mostly do better than 10 so however Oyarde is measuring them is not the same as the index and you would have to add to Trump's rating to make it equivalent.

[PAF]

You guys think things about him are bad that I think are good, like the tariffs.

Yep.

I am a solid Free Market guy who believes government should stay completely out of it.

Eliminate the IRS
End the Fed
Let the Fed beg states for money.

Because if folks like me don't keep preaching it, who will.

[Swordsmyth]

Yep.

I am a solid Free Market guy who believes government should stay completely out of it.

Eliminate the IRS
End the Fed
Let the Fed beg states for money.

Because if folks like me don't keep preaching it, who will.
Unfortunately we can't keep the ChiCom government out of it without tariffs.

Your ideas run into that kind of problem a lot.

[PAF]

The Dems mostly do better than 10 so however Oyarde is measuring them is not the same as the index and you would have to add to Trump's rating to make it equivalent.

I am not following what you mean ^

Taking each position, based upon Constitutionality, is how I derive at numbers. Though Trump never served house/senate to even have a score, I take things into consideration such as Omnibus and what it contained (purely pathetic), singing globalist USMCA (even though it is not yet ratified), statements on 2nd Amendment, respect to Private Property and Contract Rights (cause and effect), "Emergency" Spending Bill that he actually signed which provided tons of money for UN, African refugees, etc.

[PAF]

Unfortunately we can't keep the ChiCom government out of it without tariffs.

Your ideas run into that kind of problem a lot.

We will agree to disagree. It may just be a lack of understanding, and so conditioned to Keynesian econ that it is difficult to see. There will indeed be cause and effect.

[Swordsmyth]

I am not following what you mean ^

Taking each position, based upon Constitutionality, is how I derive at numbers. Though Trump never served house/senate to even have a score, I take things into consideration such as Omnibus and what it contained (purely pathetic), singing globalist USMCA (even though it is not yet ratified), statements on 2nd Amendment, respect to Private Property and Contract Rights (cause and effect), "Emergency" Spending Bill that he actually signed which provided tons of money for UN, African refugees, etc.
I'm saying that if Oyarde rates Trump at 51% and the Dems at <10% then in order to harmonize Oyarde's ratings with the freedom index which rates most Dems above 10 you would have to boost Trump's score as well which would probably put Trump in the 70's where I put him.

In other words, Oyarde and I are pretty close in our estimation.

[PAF]

I'm saying that if Oyarde rates Trump at 51% and the Dems at <10% then in order to harmonize Oyarde's ratings with the freedom index which rates most Dems above 10 you would have to boost Trump's score as well which would probably put Trump in the 70's where I put him.

In other words, Oyarde and I are pretty close in our estimation.

Perhaps I missed Oyarde's post where he derived at that, if you can point me to a post# ?

I have been rating and vetting for well over a decade and fully trust my guestimates.

[Swordsmyth]

Perhaps I missed Oyarde's post where he derived at that, if you can point me to a post# ?

I have been rating and vetting for well over a decade and fully trust my guestimates.
#35
You replied to it and I was responding to your reply.

[PAF]

#35
You replied to it and I was responding to your reply.

That is where he said "51 at least" and I conceded "51 at most". So, +/- 3%, where is the discrepancy?

Edited to add, he did say sub 10 but I do not know where he got that number.

[Swordsmyth]

That is where he said "51 at least" and I conceded "51 at most". So, +/- 3%, where is the discrepancy?
I never said there was a discrepancy between you and Oyarde, I said in order to harmonize his estimation with the freedom index it is necessary to boost Trump's number to match boosting the Dem's numbers to make them match the freedom index.


Edited to add, he did say sub 10 but I do not know where he got that number.
The same place he got 51 for Trump, which is involved in what I said.

[PAF]

I never said there was a discrepancy between you and Oyarde, I said in order to harmonize his estimation with the freedom index it is necessary to boost Trump's number to match boosting the Dem's numbers to make them match the freedom index.


The same place he got 51 for Trump, which is involved in what I said.

Gotcha. Without running through issues one by one, based upon my memory of his existing record, I still place him at 45%. I would concede to 51% just for arguments sake, perhaps you and I could run numbers at some point and derive at solid number rather than speculate. It would be interesting to see if you and I are both in error and he actually scores below that 45%. Not that it would matter anything below 90.

[Swordsmyth]

Gotcha. Without running through issues one by one, based upon my memory of his existing record, I still place him at 45%. I would concede to 51% just for arguments sake, perhaps you and I could run numbers at some point and derive at solid number rather than speculate. It would be interesting to see if you and I are both in error and he actually scores below that 45%. Not that it would matter anything below 90.
The President is harder to rate than Congress because their "No" votes can e be counted on specific bills as either good or bad but when the President doesn't do something it rarely leaves a record.

I have to go with my estimation that he is just barely a net positive which would give him a rating somewhere in the 70's if he were in Congress according to my estimation of which Congresscritters are a net positive.

[Pauls' Revere]

What benefit does she bring that out-weighs Pence?

[Anti Federalist]

What benefit does she bring that out-weighs Pence?

I honestly have no idea.

Her voting record, outside of some mild anti intervention votes, which I can assure you were the right choices made for the wrong reasons, is abysmal. (https://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/129306/tulsi-gabbard)

[Pauls' Revere]

I honestly have no idea.

Her voting record, outside of some mild anti intervention votes, which I can assure you were the right choices made for the wrong reasons, is abysmal. (https://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/129306/tulsi-gabbard)

Wrong sir, in todays world all that matters is "Shees hot".

[PAF]

Wrong sir, in todays world all that matters is "Shees hot".

Hmm, I forgot about that.

So, do we money bomb Tulsi or or AOC?

[RJB]

Hmm, I forgot about that.

So, do we money bomb Tulsi or or AOC?
I don't think AOC is that hot.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/55/bb/21/55bb21916ac4e0fbe00773ac15272a5b.png

[PAF]

I don't think AOC is that hot.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/55/bb/21/55bb21916ac4e0fbe00773ac15272a5b.png

Damn. Your way, we’d have to bag her head. My way, we’d have to gag her mouth.

Now what? Go with Tulsi?

[TheTexan]

I don't think Trump would ever choose her for anything let alone as a running mate.

She could be the white house kitchen liaison

[Anti Federalist]

Wrong sir, in todays world all that matters is "Shees hot".

I know...they have figured out that if you want to sell authoritarian communism, you don't use as a model an old, fat, frumpy, white lady in Chairman Mao pantsuits.

[Pauls' Revere]

I know...they have figured out that if you want to sell authoritarian communism, you don't use as a model an old, fat, frumpy, white lady in Chairman Mao pantsuits.

+ rep

[dannno]

She could be the white house kitchen liaison

She is the only Democrat I would trust anywhere near Trump's kitchen..

[Krugminator2]

Trump won't be the next POTUS, nor will amused assorted retarded Democrats,..

...

I'tll be Biden.


Biden isn't the end of the world. I would prefer Trump. But Biden is semi-glued to reality. Almost everyone else is so far left that I would strongly prefer Trump to them.

I don't really follow Dem politics and their base. I'm not so sure it won't be Harris or Warren. I saw a poll showing 58% of Dems have a favorable view of socialism. And the Dem base is single women and minorities. Biden doesn't really appeal to the majority of the Dem party except maybe some left of center Wall Street guys who want to the save the party from itself.

[parocks]

I voted for Ron Paul, not the libertarian party.

I've been voting GOP in November, unless I write in Ron Paul.

[parocks]

You guys think things about him are bad that I think are good, like the tariffs.

There are people here who are Libertarians. There are people here who like Outsider GOP candidates.

Back in the 90s, I liked Pat Buchanan. He was an Outsider GOP candidate who liked the tariffs.

The GOP has a lot of voters who basically don't like typical GOP politicians, who they think are too close to Democrats. Like Bushes, McCains, Romneys. Basically, the candidates who are backed by the MSM and as soon as they get the nomination, act exactly like Democrats.

And then there are the outsider GOP, Buchanan, Paul, Paul, Trump. And they rarely say the same things as the others, but they typically anger the MSM, the GOP/RINO types. They basically agree on the general idea that the way things are and the way things have been for decades is all screwy garbage that we all hate. But the solutions are different.

[r3volution 3.0]

Biden isn't the end of the world. I would prefer Trump. But Biden is semi-glued to reality. Almost everyone else is so far left that I would strongly prefer Trump to them.

I don't really follow Dem politics and their base. I'm not so sure it won't be Harris or Warren. I saw a poll showing 58% of Dems have a favorable view of socialism. And the Dem base is single women and minorities. Biden doesn't really appeal to the majority of the Dem party except maybe some left of center Wall Street guys who want to the save the party from itself.

Both Trump and Biden are terrible; but one will be the next President.

Biden is more reality-based than Trump; he's just a businessman (whose business is winning elections).

Trump is mentally ill; he actually cares about what NBC says about his hand-size.

In any event, I expect Biden to take the nomination and beat Trump fairly easily.

[RJB]

In any event, I expect Biden to take the nomination and beat Trump fairly easily.

Would you like to back up that claim with a friendly bet. Say, a change of avatars... Oh nevermind. I remember what happened last time.

[r3volution 3.0]

Would you like to back up that claim with a friendly bet. Say, a change of avatars... Oh nevermind. I remember what happened last time.

What do you think happened last time sugar-pie?

[RJB]

What do you think happened last time sugar-pie?

The best thing ever. You disappeared for awhile fructose-breath.