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Marenco
06-14-2019, 01:11 AM
Propaganda Is The Root Of All Our Problems

A new article by Forbes reports that the CEO of Crowdstrike, the extremely shady cybersecurity corporation which was foundational in the construction of the official CIA/CNN Russian hacking narrative, is now a billionaire.

George Kurtz ascended to the billionaire rankings on the back of soaring stocks immediately after the company went public, carried no doubt on the winds of the international fame it gained from its central protagonistic role in the most well-known hacking news story of all time. A loyal servant of empire well-rewarded.

Never mind that US government insiders like Hillary Clinton had been prepping for escalations against Russia well in advance of the 2016 elections, and that their preexisting agendas to shove a geostrategic obstacle off the world stage benefitted from the hacking narrative as much as George Kurtz did.

Never mind that Crowdstrike is tied to the NATO narrative management firm known as the Atlantic Council, which receives funding from the US government, the EU, NATO, Gulf states and powerful international oligarchs. Never mind either that Crowdstrike was financed with a whopping $100 million from Google, which has had a cozy relationship with US intelligence agencies since its very inception.

Never mind that to this day the DNC servers have not been examined by the FBI, nor indeed were they examined by the Special Counsel of Robert “Iraq has WMD” Mueller, preferring instead to go with the analyses of this extremely shady outfit with extensive and well-documented ties with the oligarchic leaders of the US-centralized empire. Also never mind that the Crowdstrike analyst who led forensics on those DNC servers had in fact worked for and was promoted by Robert Mueller while the two were in the FBI.

As I never tire of saying, the real underlying currency in our world is not gold, nor bureaucratic fiat, nor even raw military might. The real underlying currency of our world is narrative, and the ability to control it.

As soon as you really grok this dynamic, you start noticing it everywhere. George Kurtz is one clear example today of narrative control’s central role in the maintenance and expansion of existing power structures, as well as an illustration of how the empire is wired to reward those who advance pro-empire narratives and punish those who damage them; just compare how he’s doing to how Julian Assange is doing, for example.

But you see examples pop up every day:

The US State Department just got busted using a $1.5 million troll farm to manipulate public discourse on social media about Iran.

Video footage has just surfaced of the OPCW Director General admitting that the OPCW did indeed deliberately omit any mention in its official findings of a report from its own investigation which contradicts the establishment narrative about a chemical strike in Douma, Syria, an admission which answers controversial questions asked by critics of western imperialism like myself, and which the mainstream media have not so much as touched.

Mintpress News broke a story the other day about a new narrative management operation known as “The Trust Project”, a coordinated campaign by establishment-friendly mass media outlets for “gaming search-engine and social-media algorithms in collusion with major tech companies like Google and Twitter.”

In a new interview with The Canary, UN Special Rapporteur on torture Nils Melzer explicitly named the mass media as largely responsible for Assange’s psychological torture, excoriating them for the way that they “have shown a remarkable lack of critical independence and have contributed significantly to spreading abusive and deliberately distorted narratives about Mr Assange.”

In a new essay called “Freeing Julian Assange”, journalist Suzie Dawson reports that “Countless articles appear to have been obliterated from the internet” about Assange and WikiLeaks, amounting to some 90 percent of the links Dawson examined which were shared in tweets by or about WikiLeaks and Assange since 2010.

I just finished reading this excellent Swiss Propaganda Research essay about the little-known fact that “most of the international news coverage in Western media is provided by only three global news agencies based in New York, London and Paris.”

Any one of these could have a full-length Caitlin Johnstone essay written about it. I write about this stuff for a living, and even I don’t have the time or energy to write full articles about every single narrative control tool that the US-centralized empire has been implementing into its arsenal. There are too damn many of them emerging too damn fast, because they’re just that damn crucial for maintaining existing power structures.

Because whoever controls the narrative controls the world.

Power used to be much easier to identify in our society: just look for the fellow with the sparkly hat made of gold sitting in a really big chair and bossing everyone around. As our society advanced philosophically, however, people began to tire of having every aspect of their society determined by some schmuck in a golden hat, and started fighting for ideals called “freedom” and “democracy” in their respective nations. And, as far as our parents and teachers have taught us, freedom and democracy are exactly what we have now.

Except that’s all crap. Freedom and democracy only exist within the western empire to the extent that it keeps up appearances. Because the trouble with democracy, it turns out, is that human minds are very hackable, as long as you’ve got the resources. Wealthy and powerful people do have the resources, which means that it’s very possible for wealthy and powerful people to manipulate the masses into voting in a way that consistently benefits the wealthy and powerful. This is why billionaires and narrative control consistently go hand-in-hand.

This dynamic has allowed for western power structures to operate in a way that western democracy was explicitly designed to prevent: for the benefit of the powerful instead of for the benefit of the voting populace. So now we’ve got people in so-called liberal democracies voting to maintain governments which advance wars which don’t benefit them, to advance intrusive surveillance and police state policies which oppress them, to advance austerity policies which harm them, to advance labor policies which exploit them, and to maintain ecocidal environmental policies which threaten the very survival of our species. All because the wealthy and powerful are able to use their wealth and power to manipulate the way people think and vote.

This is why I pay far more attention in my work to narrative control than to politics. Politics is downstream from narrative control, which is why the 2020 US presidential race is already a contest to see what level of Democratic corporatist warmonger will be running against the incumbent Republican corporatist warmonger. The narrative-controlling class does its level best to hide the fact that anything’s fundamentally wrong with the system, then when people notice it’s deeply broken they encourage them to use completely impotent tools to fix it. “Don’t like how things are run? Here, vote for our other puppet!”

The root of all our problems right now is the fact that human minds are very hackable with enough resources, combined with the fact that war, oppression, exploitation and ecocide are highly profitable. This dynamic has caused human collective consciousness to generally dead-end into a kind of propagandized, zombified state in which all our knowledge and all our thinking moves in alignment with the agendas of existing power structures. It’s much easier to continue believing the official narratives than to sort through everything you’ve been told about your society, your nation and your world since grade school and work out what’s true and what’s false. Many don’t have the time. Many more don’t have the courage.

We will remain in this collective dead-end, hurtling toward either Orwellian dystopia or extinction via climate collapse or nuclear armageddon, until we find a way out of it. It won’t come from the tools our rulers have given us, and it won’t come from repeating any of the old patterns which got us here. In order to escape from the increasingly adept narrative control matrix that is being built around our collective mind by the powerful, we’re going to have to change our relationship with narrative altogether. We will either pass this great test or we will fail it, and we absolutely have the freedom to go either way.

https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/propaganda-is-the-root-of-all-our-problems-3209ab8650a4

AngryCanadian
06-14-2019, 01:36 AM
We will remain in this collective dead-end, hurtling toward either Orwellian dystopia or extinction via climate collapse or nuclear armageddon, until we find a way out of it. It won’t come from the tools our rulers have given us, and it won’t come from repeating any of the old patterns which got us here. In order to escape from the increasingly adept narrative control matrix that is being built around our collective mind by the powerful, we’re going to have to change our relationship with narrative altogether. We will either pass this great test or we will fail it, and we absolutely have the freedom to go either way.

Good article and opinion expect someone forget that these same TPTB also use immigration as a tool

Anti Globalist
06-14-2019, 08:46 AM
Well its not like propaganda is going anywhere. Propaganda has been around for a very long time. Theres no way you're ever going to get rid of it. Defeat it yes but not outright kill it.

donnay
06-14-2019, 09:08 AM
Thank you Edward Bernays!

invisible
06-14-2019, 11:11 AM
I was going to post this article myself, since it has a lot of bearing on what's been happening here. +rep to the OP. It's very obvious that RPF has been the victim of a propaganda campaign by TPTB and trump (which are the same thing), with one account posting over 36 times a day, far more than even the most prolific genuine Ron Paul supporter here, racking up more posts in 3 years than the most prolific posters have in over a decade. For those that don't belive this is really happening, that TPTB / trump is attempting to spread propaganda here, I refer to an article linked in the OP's article, that confirms this online propaganda campaign:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/us-iran-congress-meeting-money-trump-conflict-a8954191.html


government-funded troll campaign that has targeted American citizens critical of the administration’s hardline Iran policy and accused critics of being loyal to the Tehran regime.
Here, anyone critical of trump is called a "socialist", "demoncrat", communist", etc.


Critics in Washington have gone further, saying that the programme resembled the type of troll farms used by autocratic regimes abroad.

"It's completely unacceptable that American taxpayer dollars supported a project that attacked Americans and others who are critical of the Trump administration's policy of escalation and conflict with Iran,” a senior Congressional aide told The Independent, on condition of anonymity.

“This is something that happens in authoritarian regimes, not democracies.”


One woman behind the harassment campaign, a longtime Iranian-American activist, has received hundreds of thousands of dollars from the State Department
No wonder that the person posting 36+ times a day here, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, doesn't seem to have time to do things like have friends or family, or any apparent way to make a living. Those 36+ posts a day are making them a very good living, indeed!


A spokeswoman for the State Department told reporters on Monday that funding for the “Iran Disinformation Project” had been suspended and is under review after it was reported that it went beyond the scope of its mandate by veering from countering propaganda from Iran to smearing domestic critics of White House policy.

State Department officials disclosed to lawmakers they had granted $1.5 million for Iran Disinfo, which repeatedly targeted, harassed and smeared critics of Trump’s tough stance against Iran on social media.

Among those targeted were American activists, scholars, and journalists who challenged the Trump administration’s “maximum pressure campaign” against Iran.
Remember that that $1.5million was just for one propaganda campaign concerning one issue. How much is the government spending to target activists here? RPF is (or was, before this propaganda campaign started) full of activists that presented a threat to TPTB on a wide scope of issues, rather than just one. How many activists here have been discouraged and left due to the constant barrage of attacks? How many more have been suckered in by the propaganda? One member here has spent over a decade railing against the police state and now advocates for having the government police culture, and that's just one example. And if anyone thinks that RPF is somehow not a threat to trump / TPTB, remember that at one time, RPF was successful in getting more and more Ron Paul supporters elected that would oppose the policies of trump / TPTB. That sort of organized opposition on that level represents a huge threat, and trump / TPTB simply could not afford to ignore it.


Seeking evidence that its policies were working and popular, the administration has relied an unconventional information sources, often citing obscure right-wing news outlets and think tanks.
Has anyone else wondered how that 36+ posts a day poster is able to come up with so many obscure articles that lionize trump and his policies, and smear those that are a threat to trump / TPTB? An excellent recent example of this is the propaganda campaign against Amash, and the repeated posting of some obscure editorial (which means it's one person's opinion) and some sort of challenge to refute it. It's obvious that the propaganda being pushed here is a team effort, since no one person acting alone would have time to find and read all those obscure sources, have any time with friends and family, and have time to make a living, and still manage to make 36+ posts a day here, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.


Some have said the harassment campaign resembles those launched by the Iranian regime against its critics, as well as clandestine troll farms run by Russia, Saudi Arabia, and other autocracies in attempts to shape online debate and intimidate critics.
And here is the underlying goal. The evidence is readily obvious here, just look at how things have changed in the last 3 years with those 36+ posts a day. Immigration has always been debated here from the very beginning of RPF, between the open and closed border type libertarians. But that debate and discussion has always been about how open or closed the borders are, never about immigrants themselves, and there was never any talk about turning our country into east germany or north korea to implement immigration policy. It would have been unthinkable 3 years ago that people would be arguing for voter suppression here, any discussion on this topic was always about how those voting for Ron Paul were being suppressed. And those are just two recent examples of how much effect the propaganda has had here.

So, given that this propaganda here and it's effects is so incredibly obvious, my question is this: Why do the site owners and mods allow it to continue? We are told that it is somehow necessary to keep our debating skills sharp. I call BS. It's obvious that most of the moderator staff quit over some sort of directive to allow the propaganda and ignore the blatent violations of forum rules by that person making 36+ posts a day. Just about all of those older mods aren't even here anymore, and any former mods still active here have only given vague evasions of the question when asked privately why they quit their position as moderators here. How does being outshouted by 36+ posts a day keep anyone's debating skills sharp? What possible value does it hold to debate anyone who is paid to simply outshout you and call you names? I feel very strongly that the site owners have a LOT of explaning to do. There isn't any rational justification for allowing this propaganda here, and it's obvious that it is being fully sanctioned by the site owners. The question is, WHY? Why would the very owners of RPF sell out Ron Paul and his supporters like this? It sure isn't to better anyone's debating skills.

dannno
06-14-2019, 12:13 PM
I was going to post this article myself, since it has a lot of bearing on what's been happening here. +rep to the OP. It's very obvious that RPF has been the victim of a propaganda campaign by TPTB and trump (which are the same thing), with one account posting over 36 times a day, far more than even the most prolific genuine Ron Paul supporter here, racking up more posts in 3 years than the most prolific posters have in over a decade. For those that don't belive this is really happening, that TPTB / trump is attempting to spread propaganda here, I refer to an article linked in the OP's article, that confirms this online propaganda campaign:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/us-iran-congress-meeting-money-trump-conflict-a8954191.html


Here, anyone critical of trump is called a "socialist", "demoncrat", communist", etc.




No wonder that the person posting 36+ times a day here, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, doesn't seem to have time to do things like have friends or family, or any apparent way to make a living. Those 36+ posts a day are making them a very good living, indeed!


Remember that that $1.5million was just for one propaganda campaign concerning one issue. How much is the government spending to target activists here? RPF is (or was, before this propaganda campaign started) full of activists that presented a threat to TPTB on a wide scope of issues, rather than just one. How many activists here have been discouraged and left due to the constant barrage of attacks? How many more have been suckered in by the propaganda? One member here has spent over a decade railing against the police state and now advocates for having the government police culture, and that's just one example. And if anyone thinks that RPF is somehow not a threat to trump / TPTB, remember that at one time, RPF was successful in getting more and more Ron Paul supporters elected that would oppose the policies of trump / TPTB. That sort of organized opposition on that level represents a huge threat, and trump / TPTB simply could not afford to ignore it.


Has anyone else wondered how that 36+ posts a day poster is able to come up with so many obscure articles that lionize trump and his policies, and smear those that are a threat to trump / TPTB? An excellent recent example of this is the propaganda campaign against Amash, and the repeated posting of some obscure editorial (which means it's one person's opinion) and some sort of challenge to refute it. It's obvious that the propaganda being pushed here is a team effort, since no one person acting alone would have time to find and read all those obscure sources, have any time with friends and family, and have time to make a living, and still manage to make 36+ posts a day here, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.


And here is the underlying goal. The evidence is readily obvious here, just look at how things have changed in the last 3 years with those 36+ posts a day. Immigration has always been debated here from the very beginning of RPF, between the open and closed border type libertarians. But that debate and discussion has always been about how open or closed the borders are, never about immigrants themselves, and there was never any talk about turning our country into east germany or north korea to implement immigration policy. It would have been unthinkable 3 years ago that people would be arguing for voter suppression here, any discussion on this topic was always about how those voting for Ron Paul were being suppressed. And those are just two recent examples of how much effect the propaganda has had here.

So, given that this propaganda here and it's effects is so incredibly obvious, my question is this: Why do the site owners and mods allow it to continue? We are told that it is somehow necessary to keep our debating skills sharp. I call BS. It's obvious that most of the moderator staff quit over some sort of directive to allow the propaganda and ignore the blatent violations of forum rules by that person making 36+ posts a day. Just about all of those older mods aren't even here anymore, and any former mods still active here have only given vague evasions of the question when asked privately why they quit their position as moderators here. How does being outshouted by 36+ posts a day keep anyone's debating skills sharp? What possible value does it hold to debate anyone who is paid to simply outshout you and call you names? I feel very strongly that the site owners have a LOT of explaning to do. There isn't any rational justification for allowing this propaganda here, and it's obvious that it is being fully sanctioned by the site owners. The question is, WHY? Why would the very owners of RPF sell out Ron Paul and his supporters like this? It sure isn't to better anyone's debating skills.

You're right, I should listen to CNN more :rolleyes:

jmdrake
06-14-2019, 01:09 PM
You're right, I should listen to CNN more :rolleyes:

False choice fallacy much?

Zippyjuan
06-14-2019, 01:25 PM
https://www.niemanlab.org/2018/06/democrats-see-most-news-outlets-as-unbiased-republicans-think-theyre-almost-all-biased/


Democrats see most news outlets as unbiased. Republicans think they’re almost all biased.

Republicans think that almost every news outlet is biased, except for Fox News and The Wall Street Journal. Two reports this week from Knight — one on Americans’ concerns about media bias, the other on misinformation. One thing that stands out from the latter report is that Americans believe a staggeringly large percentage of the news they see is “misinformation”: “On average, Americans estimate that 39 percent of the news they see on television, read in newspapers or hear on the radio is misinformation. They believe nearly two-thirds of the news they see on social media — 65 percent — is made up or cannot be verified as accurate. (Gallup/Knight defined misinformation as “stories that are made up or cannot be verified as accurate but are presented to readers as if they are accurate.”)

These averages are driven by people who identify as Republicans or conservatives:

http://www.niemanlab.org/images/Screen-Shot-2018-06-22-at-7.02.49-AM.png

In addition, “[College graduates] estimate far less misinformation on television, on the radio and in newspapers than do those with a high school education or less (29% vs. 43%).”

This finding echoes other recent research.

Knight also calculated “net bias” scores for news organizations: “the percentage who see each as ‘not biased at all’ or ‘not very biased’ minus the percentage who see each as ‘extremely biased’ or ‘very biased.’ On this measure, positive scores indicate that more people consider the news source unbiased than biased, and negative scores mean more people consider it biased than unbiased. Here’s the overall:

https://www.niemanlab.org/images/Screen-Shot-2018-06-22-at-7.15.09-AM.png

But check out the differences between Democrats (left) and Republicans (right):

http://www.niemanlab.org/images/Screen-Shot-2018-06-22-at-7.16.02-AM.png

“Democrats, including Democratic-leaning independents, tend to see most news organizations as unbiased, except for Fox News, Breitbart News, Mother Jones, the Huffington Post, and Vox,” the authors write. “Republicans, including Republican-leaning independents, tend to see all news organizations as biased. The two exceptions are Fox
News and The Wall Street Journal.”

I’m wondering a bit about Knight’s definition of “bias,” which is “news organizations reporting stories in a way that unfairly favors one person or group over another, even if the facts reported are accurate.” Like, how does unfairness play into people’s rankings here, versus thinking that the sites are actually reporting inaccurate information? How much do people’s memories of Huffington Post as led by Arianna Huffington carry over? What’s with the Vox rankings, and how many of the respondents here actually know what Vox is? (Earlier in the report, the authors note, “The
internet-only sites Breitbart News, the Huffington Post and Vox, get lower accuracy ratings, but to a large degree, that reflects lower familiarity with them.”)

The reports surveyed 1,440 people from the Gallup Panel of U.S. adults; it’s part of broader Knight research on Americans’ views of the media, and that research will continue through July.

invisible
06-14-2019, 07:34 PM
You're right, I should listen to CNN more :rolleyes:

Even better, turn off your tv entirely.

DamianTV
06-15-2019, 01:11 PM
Respectfully, I disagree with the statement of the OP, but not fully disagree.

Propaganda is a major part of our problems, but not the only problem. Elites need an iron clad grip on three foundations in order to rule with meaningful power. Belief, Money, and Violence. Propaganda serves the Monopoly on Belief, but, Belief is only ONE OF THREE things they need. Belief is used to control the power of the other two Monopolies; those of Money and Violence by saying that the Money is Lawful, and that any Violence they enact against less powerful groups is Authorized and Moral. Propaganda is also balanced out with the other two Monopolies for if Belief starts doing what they do not want it to do, they use Money to control Belief, and if things get too out of hand, then they enact Violence against Belief.

Propaganda / Belief is a weapon against the people and used to control the individuals who work for the other two branches.

Our message of Liberty has reached everyone. That does not mean that everyone who has heard our message has chosen to support Liberty. Most of those who have would choose Liberty over what we are headed towards, except the influences of Belief, Money, and Violence have enacted a system of resisting our messages.

For example, take a True Libertarian. That Libertarian is given an order by their boss to write up another person who is disrupting their system. If the Libertarian disobeys, they just get rid of the Libertarian and their assigned target. If the Libertarian obeys their immoral order, despite being Libertarian, the message dies.

We need a way to mount a more meaningful resistance to Tyranny, and the only way to do that is to understand the methods by which they control and kill us.

acptulsa
06-16-2019, 08:00 AM
https://www.niemanlab.org/2018/06/democrats-see-most-news-outlets-as-unbiased-republicans-think-theyre-almost-all-biased/

Yeah, that's not a bad example of how they work the propaganda. Humans are mostly herd animals, and propagandists are sheep dogs. Divide and conquer. College graduates buy the bull, and you want to appear educated, right? Democrats buy the bull, and you don't want to sound like a Republican, right? Dubya couldn't even put together a coherent sentence, remember? You don't want to sound like him, so buy the bull. Now we'll lop off the outliers and look at the data again. Lone wolves may be the only ones who know the truth, but isn't sticking with the herd more important? So we'll just say lopping them off the edges improves the data.

Here's a fine example of the 'Safety In Numbers' propaganda the populace is bombarded with daily:


Yes, let's make libertarianism completely irrelevant and ensure a communist dictatorship.

The GOP is moving our direction and we can't have that so now is the perfect time to make them hate us and never listen to us for at least a generation at which point the invasion will be complete and we will all be running from an all powerful intelligence state enabled by overwhelming numbers.

:sarcasm:

A classic example. It all seems like such a reasonable little piece of sarcasm to hear thirty-six times a day, seven days a week. Be effective! Stick to your half of the herd! Don't be a voice calling in the wilderness! That's frustrating and depressing!

Of course, it could also be rephrased as follows:

Don't go out on a limb. This is no time for principle. Only a lone wolf can lead the herd a completely new direction, but it's too hard to get the herd to follow, so keep going the wrong direction with the herd, and maybe you can slow them down a little. Take it on faith that the herd cannot go the right direction, stay in your lane, keep your Safety In Numbers, and pat yourself on the back for dragging your feet a little.

That is the Propaganda Message tailored for us. I just stripped a little varnish off of it.

For, you see, there is an important component in this propaganda that this thread has so far ignored. The propagandists know we need to be proactive. And an important part of their game is to keep us busy with Proactive Uselessness.

Liberals are easy. They have a seemingly infinite capacity for demanding that the ever-increasing problems created by more government be addressed by even more government. No wonder conservatives laugh at them. Unfortunately, conservatives cannot laugh at themselves.

That's a shame, because conservatives are comedy gold. For example, here we have someone who was there throughout two full campaigns of He Who Must Not Be Named:


There is this conspiracy hypothesis that Trump is the secret, 100% establishment backed shill. While willing to entertain that hypothesis, I see no evidence of that being true.

What I see is a candidate and POTUS that the leftist establishment media supported in the primary because they were throwing a bomb into the GOP primary. They wanted maximum destruction, and it worked better than they could have anticipated, the entire GOP field was decimated. Then, it was time to for them to smear Trump non-stop, and in their eyes, easily drive Hillary to victory. But the non-stop attacks had the opposite effect. They could not create the reality they wanted, no matter how hard they smeared and produced phony polls. Voters just got mad at the media, as the media revealed themselves as biased, deceptive, shameless propagandists.

For the neoconservatives, they fought Trump tooth and nail right from the start. Cruz was their last hope after Jeb went down hard. Then after the primary, they switched to neutral or the Hillary camp, Bill Kristol being a prime example.

After elected, Trump is sitting there with a few advisors, with no idea who to appoint. The establishment had many suggestions for him, and slowly took over. Trump, being naive and easily manipulated, ended up with neoconservatives, who are experts at infiltration and manipulation.

The establishment still hates him, but he has become a somewhat a useful idiot for the neoconservatives. But they do not like that Trump is not consistent or reliable. They can get him to say something one day, and he may say the opposite the next day. He may even over-ride them at crucial moments. Not what the establishment or neoconservatives like in a front man.

This is a nice regurgitation of the narrative spoon fed to us all. And where did he get this narrative? Why, he got it--every word of it--from the exact same mainstream media that told us the names of the candidates who came in first, third and fourth in the Iowa Republican Caucus.

An extra-special touch is dismissing the glaringly obvious as a "conspiracy theory". Now there's a fine MSM propaganda tool being put to good use. So, is The Last Moderator a tool or a fool? He could be either. The Proactive Uselessness Program is very effective at turning fools into tools.

Now what kind of Black Magic causes a guy who knows actual anti-establishment candidates Must Not Be Named, who knows that The Propaganda Machine pretended to hate every establishment Republican of the last forty years, to think this guy who got nonstop publicity 24/7 for a year prior to the 2016 election (and used to be a Democrat, and had the Clintons at his wedding, and on and on) could possibly be anti-establishment?

It's the Proactive Uselessness Component. That is the smart new twist that they figure will make the New Soviet America more successful than the USSR. The USSR killed the spirits of the entire nation. But our new, improved overlords figure they can keep us striving for their benefit forever by letting us be always proactive, even though our proactive efforts are always useless.

If our half of The Herd can just always stick together and vote harder and harder for the people the media pretends to hate we can do some good. We can't do any good by trying to give horse race momentum to Those Who Must Not Be Named, because rallying behind such lone wolves is not something The Herd is capable of. And even if The Herd is capable of it, the propaganda machine will repeat over and over that The Herd cannot do it until they believe it.

So why are conservatives willing to believe these artificial paths of proactive action could possibly do any good? Why are they willing to believe that the Prepackaged "Rebel" is anything but a figurehead, even after two long, hard campaigns for a genuine rebel who was never, ever mentioned at all? Simple. To believe anything else is too depressing.

My dad had an expression. Do something, even if its wrong. Well, guess what. When a child falls on the subway tracks, that applies, because there's no time to think about our options. But voting for the Prepackaged "Rebel" getting the nonstop publicity isn't being proactive. It's fooling yourself into thinking you're doing something useful when you know you're just helping The Herd march itself off to the slaughterhouse. It's a way to avoid depression by fooling yourself. It makes you feel less depressed until you can no longer fool yourself into believing that path offers hope.

In other words, it's just another self-serving, yet self-defeating sin.

Proactive Uselessness is a prime ingredient in the new, improved propaganda war. And if you refuse to let yourself see that, you will become a tool of the devil. Just like an ever-growing percentage of this ever-shrinking forum.

The most important lesson we learned from two campaigns by He Who Must Not Be Named, and the only message we could impart upon The Herd that could cause them to halt this madness, is this: Any candidate who gets any meaningful amount of publicity from this MSM is an enemy of We, the People. With an absentee owner, a lone moderator who can't or won't learn this lesson, and a paid spammer filling the place with the opposite message in the most obnoxiously repetitive manner possible, this place can never, ever again be part of the solution.

Brian4Liberty
06-17-2019, 04:10 PM
There is this conspiracy hypothesis that Trump is the secret, 100% establishment backed shill. While willing to entertain that hypothesis, I see no evidence of that being true.

What I see is a candidate and POTUS that the leftist establishment media supported in the primary because they were throwing a bomb into the GOP primary. They wanted maximum destruction, and it worked better than they could have anticipated, the entire GOP field was decimated. Then, it was time to for them to smear Trump non-stop, and in their eyes, easily drive Hillary to victory. But the non-stop attacks had the opposite effect. They could not create the reality they wanted, no matter how hard they smeared and produced phony polls. Voters just got mad at the media, as the media revealed themselves as biased, deceptive, shameless propagandists.

For the neoconservatives, they fought Trump tooth and nail right from the start. Cruz was their last hope after Jeb went down hard. Then after the primary, they switched to neutral or the Hillary camp, Bill Kristol being a prime example.

After elected, Trump is sitting there with a few advisors, with no idea who to appoint. The establishment had many suggestions for him, and slowly took over. Trump, being naive and easily manipulated, ended up with neoconservatives, who are experts at infiltration and manipulation.

The establishment still hates him, but he has become a somewhat a useful idiot for the neoconservatives. But they do not like that Trump is not consistent or reliable. They can get him to say something one day, and he may say the opposite the next day. He may even over-ride them at crucial moments. Not what the establishment or neoconservatives like in a front man.


...
This is a nice regurgitation of the narrative spoon fed to us all. And where did he get this narrative? Why, he got it--every word of it--from the exact same mainstream media that told us the names of the candidates who came in first, third and fourth in the Iowa Republican Caucus.
...


You have your hypothesis, I have mine. Just because someone doesn’t agree with you on every minute detail and opinion doesn’t mean it’s the end of the world (or a forum).

Resorting to name calling is a poor substitute for real debate.


Now what kind of Black Magic causes a guy who knows actual anti-establishment candidates Must Not Be Named, who knows that The Propaganda Machine pretended to hate every establishment Republican of the last forty years, to think this guy who got nonstop publicity 24/7 for a year prior to the 2016 election (and used to be a Democrat, and had the Clintons at his wedding, and on and on) could possibly be anti-establishment?

My hypothesis is that the vast majority of the media were in the bag for Hillary. That explains many things, including early primary coverage, post primary general election coverage, and Russia-Gate coverage. As far as I know, the media has not publicized or admitted to this, so it would be hard to get this directly from the media.

This in no way contradicts, denies or diminishes the fact that the media is always filtering and biasing, including ignoring candidates like Ron Paul and Tulsi Gabbard.

And no, it did not seem that the media pretended to hate every past Republican candidate. They liked McCain, Romney, even to a certain extent the Bushes. What they have done since Trump became POTUS is a whole new level.


Any candidate who gets any meaningful amount of publicity from this MSM is an enemy of We, the People.

Agree, that is most usually the case. No one denies that as a generalization.

My conspiracy hypothesis is that there was a loosely organized plan by many in the media (and DNC) to promote Trump during the primary, and tear him apart in the general. Both of those require actually covering him. The generalization does not apply in this case, due to the plot requiring coverage. Additionally, the media did enjoy the ratings that came from constant coverage. As much as they do have a political agenda, sometimes business is a factor.

invisible
06-17-2019, 05:31 PM
Resorting to name calling is a poor substitute for real debate.

So then why is it allowed to continue for 36+ posts a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year?

Brian4Liberty
06-17-2019, 05:40 PM
So then why is it allowed to continue for 36+ posts a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year?

“Allowed”? It is rare when it is one sided. Shall we search for the very first instance of when member A insulted member B? There is no omnipresent police monitor of every post. This is not a sport with referees trying to watch every play for violations. Is there someone you would like banned? How many people should we ban to make RPF the perfect environment?

invisible
06-17-2019, 06:32 PM
“Allowed”? It is rare when it is one sided. Shall we search for the very first instance of when member A insulted member B? There is no omnipresent police monitor of every post. This is not a sport with referees trying to watch every play for violations. Is there someone you would like banned? How many people should we ban to make RPF the perfect environment?

A textbook example of exactly how it is allowed. Although such collectivist name calling is against the rules, it's simply ignored, and then when this is pointed out, it's always the same "play dumb" routine. The "perfect environment" isn't necessar, that comment is only a red herring.

Brian4Liberty
06-17-2019, 06:35 PM
A textbook example of exactly how it is allowed. Although such collectivist name calling is against the rules, it's simply ignored, and then when this is pointed out, it's always the same "play dumb" routine. The "perfect environment" isn't necessar, that comment is only a red herring.

Ah, so every time you have a complaint you want action taken. There’s always Twitter and Facebook. They are pretty good at that. Nothing like a complaint driven platform.

ATruepatriot
06-17-2019, 06:52 PM
A textbook example of exactly how it is allowed. Although such collectivist name calling is against the rules, it's simply ignored, and then when this is pointed out, it's always the same "play dumb" routine. The "perfect environment" isn't necessar, that comment is only a red herring.

So you would rather not have this platform to cry on? This is the only other option from what you have here now... Without the whole package there will be no platform to cry on. It's not yours and it will die without the whole package :)

Micromanage it like a millennial and it will die...

Brian4Liberty
06-17-2019, 06:57 PM
I was going to post this article myself, since it has a lot of bearing on what's been happening here. +rep to the OP. It's very obvious that RPF has been the victim of a propaganda campaign by TPTB and trump (which are the same thing), with one account posting over 36 times a day, far more than even the most prolific genuine Ron Paul supporter here, racking up more posts in 3 years than the most prolific posters have in over a decade. For those that don't belive this is really happening, that TPTB / trump is attempting to spread propaganda here, I refer to an article linked in the OP's article, that confirms this online propaganda campaign:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/us-iran-congress-meeting-money-trump-conflict-a8954191.html

Here, anyone critical of trump is called a "socialist", "demoncrat", communist", etc.

No wonder that the person posting 36+ times a day here, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, doesn't seem to have time to do things like have friends or family, or any apparent way to make a living. Those 36+ posts a day are making them a very good living, indeed!

Remember that that $1.5million was just for one propaganda campaign concerning one issue. How much is the government spending to target activists here? RPF is (or was, before this propaganda campaign started) full of activists that presented a threat to TPTB on a wide scope of issues, rather than just one. How many activists here have been discouraged and left due to the constant barrage of attacks? How many more have been suckered in by the propaganda? One member here has spent over a decade railing against the police state and now advocates for having the government police culture, and that's just one example. And if anyone thinks that RPF is somehow not a threat to trump / TPTB, remember that at one time, RPF was successful in getting more and more Ron Paul supporters elected that would oppose the policies of trump / TPTB. That sort of organized opposition on that level represents a huge threat, and trump / TPTB simply could not afford to ignore it.

Has anyone else wondered how that 36+ posts a day poster is able to come up with so many obscure articles that lionize trump and his policies, and smear those that are a threat to trump / TPTB? An excellent recent example of this is the propaganda campaign against Amash, and the repeated posting of some obscure editorial (which means it's one person's opinion) and some sort of challenge to refute it. It's obvious that the propaganda being pushed here is a team effort, since no one person acting alone would have time to find and read all those obscure sources, have any time with friends and family, and have time to make a living, and still manage to make 36+ posts a day here, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

And here is the underlying goal. The evidence is readily obvious here, just look at how things have changed in the last 3 years with those 36+ posts a day. Immigration has always been debated here from the very beginning of RPF, between the open and closed border type libertarians. But that debate and discussion has always been about how open or closed the borders are, never about immigrants themselves, and there was never any talk about turning our country into east germany or north korea to implement immigration policy. It would have been unthinkable 3 years ago that people would be arguing for voter suppression here, any discussion on this topic was always about how those voting for Ron Paul were being suppressed. And those are just two recent examples of how much effect the propaganda has had here.

So, given that this propaganda here and it's effects is so incredibly obvious, my question is this: Why do the site owners and mods allow it to continue? We are told that it is somehow necessary to keep our debating skills sharp. I call BS. It's obvious that most of the moderator staff quit over some sort of directive to allow the propaganda and ignore the blatent violations of forum rules by that person making 36+ posts a day. Just about all of those older mods aren't even here anymore, and any former mods still active here have only given vague evasions of the question when asked privately why they quit their position as moderators here. How does being outshouted by 36+ posts a day keep anyone's debating skills sharp? What possible value does it hold to debate anyone who is paid to simply outshout you and call you names? I feel very strongly that the site owners have a LOT of explaning to do. There isn't any rational justification for allowing this propaganda here, and it's obvious that it is being fully sanctioned by the site owners. The question is, WHY? Why would the very owners of RPF sell out Ron Paul and his supporters like this? It sure isn't to better anyone's debating skills.

Believe it or not, and you probably don’t, I didn’t even read that post from you. That’s how closely we keep an eye on everything.

So we ban Swordsmyth, Anti Federalist, and who else? Trumpkins? Better ban dannno too. Danke for good measure (their names and opinions are similar). And really, if we want to vote on banning trolls, will probably have to ban Zippyjuan too, as there seems to be consensus on that. We may need a thorough review of all accused members. An inquisition, so to speak.

Secret directives? They must be so secret that I never heard about it. Guess Bryan is the one you think owes you an explaination, unless the secret powers kept it from him too.

ATruepatriot
06-17-2019, 07:13 PM
Believe it or not, and you probably don’t, I didn’t even read that post from you. That’s how closely we keep an eye on everything.

So we ban Swordsmyth, Anti Federalist, and who else? Trumpkins? Better ban dannno too. Danke for good measure (their names and opinions are similar). And really, if we want to vote on banning trolls, will probably have to ban Zippyjuan too, as there seems to be consensus on that. We may need a thorough review of all accused members. An inquisition, so to speak.

Secret directives? They must be so secret that I never heard about it. Guess Bryan is the one you think owes you an explaination, unless the secret powers kept it from him too.

Tell you what... I am on several forums everyday of all factions and religions. I am gathering news at 2:30- 3:00 AM every morning as I start Coffee. This is the most open and "free speech" forum I have been on since the Daily Paul. This is to be greatly appreciated and respected. So... Who is Bryan? The Tex? lol

It is owned by someone from Texas by the way... :)

Brian4Liberty
06-17-2019, 07:31 PM
Tell you what... I am on several forums everyday of all factions and religions. I am gathering news at 2:30- 3:00 AM every morning as I start Coffee. This is the most open and "free speech" forum I have been on since the Daily Paul. This is to be greatly appreciated and respected. So... Who is Bryan? The Tex? lol

It is owned by someone from Texas by the way... :)

There is no truth to the rumor that Danke is the secret puppet master. He is only temporarliy in charge when the team is on the private jet flying to meet with Soros, Adelson or Thiel.

I can not confirm or deny anything about TheTexan.

:cool:

ATruepatriot
06-17-2019, 07:36 PM
There is no truth to the rumor that Danke is the secret puppet master. He is only temporarliy in charge when the team is on the private jet flying to meet with Soros, Adelson or Thiel.

I can not confirm or deny anything about TheTexan.

:cool:

Lol... Danke creeps me out with his peeking around the monitor shit... lol

And SOMEONE here from Texas owns this mess. It is logged with ICANN. :)

Danke
06-17-2019, 08:12 PM
Lol... Danke creeps me out with his peeking around the monitor shit... lol



Just keeping an eye out on you guys for Bryan, and make sure y'all don't steal anything here.

Ender
06-17-2019, 08:18 PM
Believe it or not, and you probably don’t, I didn’t even read that post from you. That’s how closely we keep an eye on everything.

So we ban Swordsmyth, Anti Federalist, and who else? Trumpkins? Better ban dannno too. Danke for good measure (their names and opinions are similar). And really, if we want to vote on banning trolls, will probably have to ban Zippyjuan too, as there seems to be consensus on that. We may need a thorough review of all accused members. An inquisition, so to speak.

Secret directives? They must be so secret that I never heard about it. Guess Bryan is the one you think owes you an explaination, unless the secret powers kept it from him too.

I'd just like to see the name calling & insults stopped.

Some get tired of the constant insults & begin to fire back- this I can understand.

ATruepatriot
06-17-2019, 08:19 PM
Just keeping an eye out on you guys for Bryan, and make sure y'all don't steal anything here.

I could click on Bryan to investigate more... But you know what... Out of respect I will just leave it alone and grab my harmonica and do some blues instead. lol

If he wants to drop in he will... :)

Danke
06-17-2019, 08:20 PM
Better ban @dannno (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=10908) too. @Danke (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=6186) for good measure (their names and opinions are similar).

That's like saying we all "look alike."

Reported.

ATruepatriot
06-17-2019, 08:26 PM
I'd just like to see the name calling & insults stopped.

Some get tired of the constant insults & begin to fire back- this I can understand.

The future of our grandchildren is a serious issue. Those who care only for themselves over the future of the prosperity of their offspring are against the future of man as a species. Let's talk anthropology brother...

Brian4Liberty
06-17-2019, 08:38 PM
That's like saying we all "look alike."

Reported.

Ban. I’m closing this thread.

Ender
06-17-2019, 09:24 PM
Ban. I’m closing this thread.

LOL!

Some of my favorite discussions have been with members whom I don't always agree with but know how to have decent dialog.

ATruepatriot
06-17-2019, 09:33 PM
That's like saying we all "look alike."

Reported.

We do... We stand on two feet longer at a time than any other primate.

enhanced_deficit
06-17-2019, 09:36 PM
Somewhat inappropriate line of thinking.

Next 'follow the money' purists could start raising questions like 'who owns propaganda machines aka media'.

Danke
06-17-2019, 09:49 PM
Ban. I’m closing this thread.

Not before I do.

ATruepatriot
06-17-2019, 10:00 PM
Not before I do.


https://youtu.be/hJGhuAfkFCo

ATruepatriot
06-17-2019, 10:01 PM
https://youtu.be/70Tlujj7tYk

Danke
06-17-2019, 10:07 PM
https://youtu.be/hJGhuAfkFCo


https://youtu.be/70Tlujj7tYk


Enjoy your infraction, another one and you are gone.

ATruepatriot
06-17-2019, 10:18 PM
Enjoy your infraction, another one and you are gone.

I was trying to diffuse with some humor. I did not mean to offend....

ATruepatriot
06-17-2019, 10:23 PM
Enjoy your infraction, another one and you are gone.

Apparently not funny, my mistake. All you have to do is ask and I will book it out of here on my own man.

ATruepatriot
06-17-2019, 10:27 PM
Enjoy your infraction, another one and you are gone.

I like really you by the way... Damned shame to have you decide to chest bump over silly shit...

Danke
06-17-2019, 10:28 PM
I was trying to diffuse with some humor. I did not mean to offend....

Too late, and I have CCed: TheTexan

No turning back now.

ATruepatriot
06-17-2019, 10:31 PM
Too late, and I have CCed: TheTexan

No turning back now.

Tattle teller...

TheTexan
06-17-2019, 10:32 PM
Too late, and I have CCed: TheTexan

No turning back now.

Thanks for the heads up.

I'm investigating the dispute and will provide a report to the mods to recommend an appropriate course of action.

ATruepatriot
06-17-2019, 10:38 PM
Thanks for the heads up.

I'm investigating the dispute and will provide a report to the mods to recommend an appropriate course of action.

Well at least you will take the time to investigate. Better than most platforms, Most platforms you are just guilty because one person said so with no proof or basis. Cool shit there man...

Righteous Bro... :)

ATruepatriot
06-17-2019, 10:44 PM
Thanks for the heads up.

I'm investigating the dispute and will provide a report to the mods to recommend an appropriate course of action.

While you do that, I'm off to bed. Please have a great evening... :)

UWDude
06-17-2019, 11:55 PM
So then why is it allowed to continue for 36+ posts a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year?

Look at the libertarians, unable to cope with a free market of ideas, so they call for bannings, because they disagree.

ZippyJuan is still here.
I never called for his ban.

Giant walls of texts of the losers, crying about how its the other side who fell for the propaganda.
Ye, who are almighty, all-knowing. Who croon out Ron Paul's name in a frenzy of purity virtue signalling, yet call for control and fascism on an internet forum, where nothing but pixels on a screen and words exist. All talk, no walk. Every time.

And you fools talk to me like you have the solutions and path to freedom in the real world? You can't even handle freedom in the fake world.

Propaganda is not the root of all your problems. The root of all your problems is YOU, YOUR attitudes, and your SLIMY techniques of persuasion.
Tons of people here can't speak PLAINLY and state LOUDLY what they believe. INSTEAD, they try to argue they have the same position as Ron Paul, no matter how far away from him their true intentions and beliefs are.

As if.

Anti Federalist
06-18-2019, 12:15 AM
Here, anyone critical of trump is called a "socialist", "demoncrat", communist", etc.

Since you have called me out, if not by name, by deed, please show me where I have done that...I may have...but it's not my usual style at all.

Being mildly supportive of Trump when he does something right, like rescind fatwas against hunting on certain federal lands, does not make me a Trumphumper.


Remember that that $1.5million was just for one propaganda campaign concerning one issue. How much is the government spending to target activists here? RPF is (or was, before this propaganda campaign started) full of activists that presented a threat to TPTB on a wide scope of issues, rather than just one. How many activists here have been discouraged and left due to the constant barrage of attacks? How many more have been suckered in by the propaganda? One member here has spent over a decade railing against the police state and now advocates for having the government police culture, and that's just one example.

So, I've been "suckered" huh?

Funny, when I made myself physically ill combing through police abuse stories day in and day out to raise awareness about that, I was "suckered" as well...my feeble brain was twisted by anti police propaganda and I was nothing but a cop basher. (Yes, I was accused of that, more than once).

Get over yourself...I did...those "activists" you mentioned have all moved on...many had no interest in freedom whatsoever, I see it every day in NH where ex-Ron Paul people are now Feeling the Bern. They just wanted to be contrary and anti-establishment.


Has anyone else wondered how that 36+ posts a day poster is able to come up with so many obscure articles that lionize trump and his policies, and smear those that are a threat to trump / TPTB? An excellent recent example of this is the propaganda campaign against Amash, and the repeated posting of some obscure editorial (which means it's one person's opinion) and some sort of challenge to refute it. It's obvious that the propaganda being pushed here is a team effort, since no one person acting alone would have time to find and read all those obscure sources, have any time with friends and family, and have time to make a living, and still manage to make 36+ posts a day here, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

I know people that FedBook 10 times that amount, they spend every waking minute furiously finger fucking a stupidphone.

I have a ton of material here because, A - I don't FedBook or Twatter or SnapFlat or Disqus or whatever, so therefore this has been my prime ground for my mental droppings for over ten years now. B - I use this as my primary news source. C - My work and home life require plenty of time behind a screen, sadly.

I can't speak for anybody else, but, rest assured, I am not in the employ of the minions of Trump.


And here is the underlying goal. The evidence is readily obvious here, just look at how things have changed in the last 3 years with those 36+ posts a day. Immigration has always been debated here from the very beginning of RPF, between the open and closed border type libertarians. But that debate and discussion has always been about how open or closed the borders are, never about immigrants themselves, and there was never any talk about turning our country into east germany or north korea to implement immigration policy. It would have been unthinkable 3 years ago that people would be arguing for voter suppression here, any discussion on this topic was always about how those voting for Ron Paul were being suppressed. And those are just two recent examples of how much effect the propaganda has had here.

I have always been a closed borders, blood and soil, pro-tariff, America First, sort of guy. I supported Pat Buchanan in all his bids for the presidency as a republican. I did not in 2000 because of that Reform Party nonsense, I supported Harry Browne instead.

I've made my position clear on those things, and then, in the spirit of "getting along" as we tried to pull differing factions together under a broad liberty banner, I kept quiet.

Ron's position was close enough for me: bring the troops home, end the foreign wars and use them to defend OUR border, instead of Trashcanistan's


So, given that this propaganda here and it's effects is so incredibly obvious, my question is this: Why do the site owners and mods allow it to continue? We are told that it is somehow necessary to keep our debating skills sharp. I call BS. It's obvious that most of the moderator staff quit over some sort of directive to allow the propaganda and ignore the blatent violations of forum rules by that person making 36+ posts a day. Just about all of those older mods aren't even here anymore, and any former mods still active here have only given vague evasions of the question when asked privately why they quit their position as moderators here. How does being outshouted by 36+ posts a day keep anyone's debating skills sharp? What possible value does it hold to debate anyone who is paid to simply outshout you and call you names? I feel very strongly that the site owners have a LOT of explaning to do. There isn't any rational justification for allowing this propaganda here, and it's obvious that it is being fully sanctioned by the site owners. The question is, WHY? Why would the very owners of RPF sell out Ron Paul and his supporters like this? It sure isn't to better anyone's debating skills.

How much money have you donated/spent over the years to keep RPF going?

I know I have spent a good deal.

I do not want anyone banned...not Zippy or Sword or Fire11 or you.

Rational, thinking people can change their minds, they can assess a situation that has changed and modify or alter their ideas or plans or courses of action as needed.

That is all that has happened to me: I have taken a long, cold, hard and critical look at what the political opposition to my ideas, and my physical person, are now advocating.

"No Borders, No Walls, No USA At All"...well, that's not for me...for all my complaining and all my bitching about legitimate gripes, there is still some good worth defending.

I do not want to live in New Kinshasa.

I have the right to advocate for policies and a community that agrees with that and to defend myself and my family and my posterity against an opposition that, at best, wants me locked out of a voice in how things will be run, and at worse, wants me exterminated.

That is what became clear to me...not some idiotic propaganda conspiracy that has me on Trump's payroll to post comments on an insignificant message board.

People can disagree or come to different conclusions on things....that's freedom.

Get a fucking grip, for Christ's sake.

Anti Federalist
06-19-2019, 10:20 AM
Eh?

Ender
06-19-2019, 10:57 AM
Look at the libertarians, unable to cope with a free market of ideas, so they call for bannings, because they disagree.

ZippyJuan is still here.
I never called for his ban.

Giant walls of texts of the losers, crying about how its the other side who fell for the propaganda.
Ye, who are almighty, all-knowing. Who croon out Ron Paul's name in a frenzy of purity virtue signalling, yet call for control and fascism on an internet forum, where nothing but pixels on a screen and words exist. All talk, no walk. Every time.

And you fools talk to me like you have the solutions and path to freedom in the real world? You can't even handle freedom in the fake world.

Propaganda is not the root of all your problems. The root of all your problems is YOU, YOUR attitudes, and your SLIMY techniques of persuasion.
Tons of people here can't speak PLAINLY and state LOUDLY what they believe. INSTEAD, they try to argue they have the same position as Ron Paul, no matter how far away from him their true intentions and beliefs are.

As if.

Zippy doesn't call people names & throw out continuous insults to any that disagree with him.

Ender
06-19-2019, 11:01 AM
Since you have called me out, if not by name, by deed, please show me where I have done that...I may have...but it's not my usual style at all.

Being mildly supportive of Trump when he does something right, like rescind fatwas against hunting on certain federal lands, does not make me a Trumphumper.



So, I've been "suckered" huh?

Funny, when I made myself physically ill combing through police abuse stories day in and day out to raise awareness about that, I was "suckered" as well...my feeble brain was twisted by anti police propaganda and I was nothing but a cop basher. (Yes, I was accused of that, more than once).

Get over yourself...I did...those "activists" you mentioned have all moved on...many had no interest in freedom whatsoever, I see it every day in NH where ex-Ron Paul people are now Feeling the Bern. They just wanted to be contrary and anti-establishment.



I know people that FedBook 10 times that amount, they spend every waking minute furiously finger $#@!ing a stupidphone.

I have a ton of material here because, A - I don't FedBook or $#@!ter or SnapFlat or Disqus or whatever, so therefore this has been my prime ground for my mental droppings for over ten years now. B - I use this as my primary news source. C - My work and home life require plenty of time behind a screen, sadly.

I can't speak for anybody else, but, rest assured, I am not in the employ of the minions of Trump.



I have always been a closed borders, blood and soil, pro-tariff, America First, sort of guy. I supported Pat Buchanan in all his bids for the presidency as a republican. I did not in 2000 because of that Reform Party nonsense, I supported Harry Browne instead.

I've made my position clear on those things, and then, in the spirit of "getting along" as we tried to pull differing factions together under a broad liberty banner, I kept quiet.

Ron's position was close enough for me: bring the troops home, end the foreign wars and use them to defend OUR border, instead of Trashcanistan's



How much money have you donated/spent over the years to keep RPF going?

I know I have spent a good deal.

I do not want anyone banned...not Zippy or Sword or Fire11 or you.

Rational, thinking people can change their minds, they can assess a situation that has changed and modify or alter their ideas or plans or courses of action as needed.

That is all that has happened to me: I have taken a long, cold, hard and critical look at what the political opposition to my ideas, and my physical person, are now advocating.

"No Borders, No Walls, No USA At All"...well, that's not for me...for all my complaining and all my bitching about legitimate gripes, there is still some good worth defending.

I do not want to live in New Kinshasa.

I have the right to advocate for policies and a community that agrees with that and to defend myself and my family and my posterity against an opposition that, at best, wants me locked out of a voice in how things will be run, and at worse, wants me exterminated.

That is what became clear to me...not some idiotic propaganda conspiracy that has me on Trump's payroll to post comments on an insignificant message board.

People can disagree or come to different conclusions on things....that's freedom.

Get a $#@!ing grip, for Christ's sake.

I don't think invisible's post was about you. We don't always agree but we can always have reasonable dialog & that is really refreshing.

It's the 24/7 posters that continually use personal insults & name-calling, to justify themselves, that is starting to infuriate many here.

shakey1
06-19-2019, 11:08 AM
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/c9/c94f7a1ea25a45c89d46e09deebaa62ea088ee7530c07412b0 b659edbe1a7860.jpg

Anti Federalist
06-19-2019, 12:58 PM
I don't think invisible's post was about you. We don't always agree but we can always have reasonable dialog & that is really refreshing.

It's the 24/7 posters that continually use personal insults & name-calling, to justify themselves, that is starting to infuriate many here.

I picked up on this quote:


One member here has spent over a decade railing against the police state and now advocates for having the government police culture

I'm pretty sure he means me...of course he's missing the point totally, but I'm not going to explain myself yet again.

UWDude
06-19-2019, 01:00 PM
Zippy doesn't call people names & throw out continuous insults to any that disagree with him.

neither does swordsmyth.


And spare me the "omg insults"
I am not a fool, who thinks there is a difference between "you are stupid" and "people that think like you are stupid". There is no difference. Same with calling people childish, or calling their worldviews childish, ignorant, or whatever else.

same with saying people have "fallen for the propaganda" or are "cultists" or any other of those insults that some how are not considered insults according to some forum rules, but not others. It is all a bunch of selective enforcement mod fodder.

And I also don't suffer fools who claim to be all about freedom and liberty, when they pronounce actions of their personal lives that directly contradict their moral posturing and claims of belief. I'll hit them there every time.

And finally, freedom of speech covers personal insults as well. Sorry you hate freedom.

Ender
06-19-2019, 01:50 PM
neither does swordsmyth.


And spare me the "omg insults"
I am not a fool, who thinks there is a difference between "you are stupid" and "people that think like you are stupid". There is no difference. Same with calling people childish, or calling their worldviews childish, ignorant, or whatever else.

same with saying people have "fallen for the propaganda" or are "cultists" or any other of those insults that some how are not considered insults according to some forum rules, but not others. It is all a bunch of selective enforcement mod fodder.

And I also don't suffer fools who claim to be all about freedom and liberty, when they pronounce actions of their personal lives that directly contradict their moral posturing and claims of belief. I'll hit them there every time.

And finally, freedom of speech covers personal insults as well. Sorry you hate freedom.

The only thing I hate is stupidity.

UWDude
06-19-2019, 01:54 PM
The only thing I hate is stupidity.

what you sayin bruh? You sayin Im stupid?

hey everybody, lets play watch the weasel, where we watch a weasel try to claim that he wasnt trying to insult me!

UWDude
06-19-2019, 01:56 PM
The only thing I hate is stupidity.

Aren't you one of the stupid people that actually fell for the piss poor acting stunts of Gloria Allred's little victims of "Trumps sexual aasaults", complete withe the pre-written statements and fake tears.

And then you tried to trot out some family members trauma, as if it were your own, and as if that gave you the insight to tell how truthful Alred's lying whores were?

Ender
06-19-2019, 02:51 PM
Aren't you one of the stupid people that actually fell for the piss poor acting stunts of Gloria Allred's little victims of "Trumps sexual aasaults", complete withe the pre-written statements and fake tears.

And then you tried to trot out some family members trauma, as if it were your own, and as if that gave you the insight to tell how truthful Alred's lying whores were?

Oh, poor widdo baby- everybody need's to believe everything you & Trump say. Boo. Hoo.

UWDude
06-30-2019, 06:07 PM
Aren't you one of the stupid people that actually fell for the piss poor acting stunts of Gloria Allred's little victims of "Trumps sexual aasaults", complete withe the pre-written statements and fake tears.

And then you tried to trot out some family members trauma, as if it were your own, and as if that gave you the insight to tell how truthful Alred's lying whores were?

Hey Ender

since you are the expert on people who tell the truth about sexual assault and violence (after all you did let us all know something similar did happen to a family member of yours)

Can you tell me if this lady is telling the truth?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8dxttQUvnI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8dxttQUvnI

Warrior_of_Freedom
06-30-2019, 06:10 PM
They keep changing the definition of stuff. Sexual assault used to mean something, now brushing up against someone's rump on accident is rape.