Trump Unleashes Tariffs On Mexico "Until Illegal Immigration Stops"

[Swordsmyth]

Following an earlier leaked story from the Wall Street Journal, President Trump has confirmed that he will impose tariffs on Mexico until the illegal immigration problems at the southern US border are fixed.

Amid negotations and escalations in the process of moving USMCA through Congress, Trump has decided to go after one on America's closest trade partners: "On June 10th, the United States will impose a 5% Tariff on all goods coming into our Country from Mexico, until such time as illegal migrants coming through Mexico, and into our Country, STOP. The Tariff will gradually increase until the Illegal Immigration problem is remedied, at which time the Tariffs will be removed. Details from the White House to follow."

On June 10th, the United States will impose a 5% Tariff on all goods coming into our Country from Mexico, until such time as illegal migrants coming through Mexico, and into our Country, STOP. The Tariff will gradually increase until the Illegal Immigration problem is remedied,..
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 30, 2019 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1134240653926232064?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
....at which time the Tariffs will be removed. Details from the White House to follow.
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 30, 2019 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1134240657621438464?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)



More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-05-30/peso-futures-tumble-trump-unleashes-tariffs-mexico-until-illegal-immigration-stops



This should also help stop the USMCA

[Pauls' Revere]

He should have eliminated welfare incentives instead.

[enhanced_deficit]

Unfortunately, extremist conservatives like Breitbart, Coulter, Bannon etc might not be swayed and might even see it as a plot to reduce employment there to further push cheap labor towards US. However in reality it's very doubtful that MAGA's top donor would approve any such plot to induce cheap labor.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/294/982/125.jpg


Related

Ann Coulter on Trump : 'He's Been Jerking Us Around'https://www.newsweek.com/ann-coulter-says-donald-trump-doing-nothing-prevent-illegal-border-crossings-1391493

[Swordsmyth]

He should have eliminated welfare incentives instead.
He is doing what he can about that:

Migrants are forgoing welfare benefits out of fear of Trump’s proposed Visa rules (https://www.newsweek.com/trump-immigration-green-cards-welfare-1433132)



New HUD rule prevents illegals from getting public housing assistance (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?533571-New-HUD-rule-prevents-illegals-from-getting-public-housing-assistance)

Infuriating Democrats, Trump Plans To Redefine Poverty, Cutting Americans From Welfare (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?534256-Infuriating-Democrats-Trump-Plans-To-Redefine-Poverty-Cutting-Americans-From-Welfare)

[Swordsmyth]

Unfortunately, extremist conservatives like Breitbart, Coulter, Bannon etc might not be swayed and might even see it as a plot to reduce employment there to further push cheap labor towards US. However in reality it's very doubtful that MAGA's top donor would approve any such plot to induce cheap labor.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/294/982/125.jpg

LOL

you are pathetic, killing the USMCA and pressuring Mexico to stop the invasion are good things.

[Swordsmyth]

Higher tariffs will start at 5% on June 10 and increase monthly until reaching 25% on Oct. 1, unless Mexico takes immediate action, he said.
"If the illegal migration crisis is alleviated through effective actions taken by Mexico, to be determined in our sole discretion and judgment, the tariffs will be removed," Trump said.


Trump said he was acting under the powers granted to him by the International Emergency Economic Powers Act. He campaigned for election in 2016 on a vow to crack down on illegal immigration.
"Mexico’s passive cooperation in allowing this mass incursion constitutes an emergency and extraordinary threat to the national security and economy of the United States," Trump said in the statement.
"Mexico has very strong immigration laws and could easily halt the illegal flow of migrants, including by returning them to their home countries," he said.

More at: https://news.yahoo.com/trump-dramatic-statement-border-week-175439693.html

[tfurrh]

"If the illegal migration crisis is alleviated through effective actions taken by Mexico, to be determined in our sole discretion and judgment, the tariffs will be removed," Trump said.

I'd like to see what he specifically is hoping they'll do.

[dannno]

I'm buying shares in frozen avocados.

[UWDude]

Aw schucks. How in tha hell ee gonna make mexico pay for tha wall now?

[r3volution 3.0]

The plan is probably to score an easy political victory by forcing the Mexicans into a humiliating (even if meaningless) concession, to the applause of the nationalist rabble. However, there's politics in Mexico too, and - whatever the economics - I don't see them backing down, at least not before massive damage is done. Much of that damage will be to the already very weak US auto industry, whose supply chain goes back and forth across the border.

[Swordsmyth]

The plan is probably to score an easy political victory by forcing the Mexicans into a humiliating (even if meaningless) concession, to the applause of the nationalist rabble. However, there's politics in Mexico too, and - whatever the economics - I don't see them backing down, at least not before massive damage is done. Much of that damage will be to the already very weak US auto industry, whose supply chain goes back and forth across the border.
So we should just turn a blind eye to their collaboration with the invasion?


It's time we became less dependent on hostile foreigners and quit rewarding them for stabbing us in the back.

The next step should be to tax all foreign remittances that don't provide proof of citizenship/legal presence.

[Swordsmyth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFGkJ2BdJ8E

https://youtu.be/bFGkJ2BdJ8E

[UWDude]

The plan is probably to score an easy political victory by forcing the Mexicans into a humiliating (even if meaningless) concession, to the applause of the nationalist rabble. However, there's politics in Mexico too, and - whatever the economics - I don't see them backing down, at least not before massive damage is done. Much of that damage will be to the already very weak US auto industry, whose supply chain goes back and forth across the border.

A 5% tariff on the amount of trade goods coming to the US, for one year, would raise about... $10 Billion.

By the time negotiating even began, the tariffs would be gone, and wall paid for.

Almost, at 6 million a mile, that's about 1667 miles. Border is about 2000. Keep the tariffs for another 3 months. 15 months, wall paid for.

[r3volution 3.0]

So we should just turn a blind eye to their collaboration with the invasion?

It's time we became less dependent on hostile foreigners and quit rewarding them for stabbing us in the back.

...except there's no invasion, the foreigners aren't hostile, and the only one stabbing you in the back is the orangutan you voted for.

...well, more like stabbing you in the front, right in the face, as you watch him do it, and applaud.


The next step should be to tax all foreign remittances that don't provide proof of citizenship/legal presence.

Yes, if we just keep growing the federal government, we shall surely reach the MAGA-rific promised land.

[Swordsmyth]

...except there's no invasion, the foreigners aren't hostile, and the only one stabbing you in the back is the orangutan you voted for.

...well, more like stabbing you in the front, right in the face, as you watch him do it, and applaud.

LOL
:upsidedown:The World Turned Upside Down:upsidedown:




Yes, if we just keep growing the federal government, we shall surely reach the MAGA-rific promised land.
It's not growing government to crack down on invaders.

[r3volution 3.0]

It's not growing government to crack down on invaders

Yea, why would higher taxes mean larger government...

:upsidedown:The English Language Turned Upside Down:upsidedown:

[Swordsmyth]

Yea, why would higher taxes mean larger government...

:upsidedown:The English Language Turned Upside Down:upsidedown:
It's not higher taxes, anyone here legally wouldn't pay a cent more.

Maybe if you stood on your head you could think rightside up.

[r3volution 3.0]

It's not higher taxes, anyone here legally wouldn't pay a cent more.

LOL, so it somehow isn't a tax because the people who'd pay it are illegal immigrants?

[Swordsmyth]

LOL, so it somehow isn't a tax because the people who'd pay it are illegal immigrants?
Exactly, it's more like a fine.

[r3volution 3.0]

Exactly, it's more like a fine.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/e4a504b1d752580e9bf92f6943411fb1/tenor.gif?itemid=3690710

Great, after that, let's try this:

-Eliminate all taxes
-Pass law making it illegal not to donate money equal to old taxes to the IRS
-Set fine for violation of said law at that same amount

No more taxes!

[Swordsmyth]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/e4a504b1d752580e9bf92f6943411fb1/tenor.gif?itemid=3690710

Great, after that, let's try this:

-Eliminate all taxes
-Pass law making it illegal not to donate money equal to old taxes to the IRS
-Set fine for violation of said law at that same amount

No more taxes!
That's a difference without a distinction.

My idea only costs those who are breaking the law, therefore it is more of a fine than a tax.

Mexico and the other countries involved are waging war on the US and it is time we fought back with appropriate counter measures.

[Fox McCloud]

Good heavens almighty. As if Trump couldn't get more disappointing.

This is going to have a nasty impact on auto prices and auto-parts costs.

Will probably hit some electrical machinery too.

Just what we need, right now, an even bigger squeeze on the middle class while making the working poor in Mexico even more poor.

The most disturbing thing, throughout all of this, is this demonstrates how fragile free trade is, and how quickly it can go south.

Mercantalism really never died; it just hid for a while.

[oyarde]

You guys must be buying a lot of stuff from mexico . Just Dos Equis for me .

[PAF]

You guys must be buying a lot of stuff from mexico . Just Dos Equis for me .

I have not tried that yet. I like the Hallertau hops myself typically found in the Canadians.

[TheTexan]

This is how Mexico will pay for the wall :cool:

[Superfluous Man]

The thread title is wrong. It should say, "Trump Unleashes Tariffs on America..."

[enhanced_deficit]

This should also help stop the USMCA

Trump Pushes USMCA Approval Plan in Move That Irks Pelosi By Jenny Leonard
and Erik Wasson
May 30, 2019, 4:02 PM EDT Updated on May 30, 2019, 7:07 PM EDT


House speaker says Democrats’ concerns need to be addressed

Vice President Pence says White House wants approval by summer



The Trump administration formally notified Congress it’s moving forward with its plan to get the new Nafta approved -- a move that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi called “not a positive step” as her party weighs whether to support the deal.
White House officials submitted a so-called Statement of Administrative Action, a step toward introducing legislation that would bring the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement into force. The move starts a minimum 30-day period for consultations between the White House and Congress to finalize the bill before a vote can take place.

This action could set up a showdown with Democrats who have opposed efforts by the Trump administration to rush a vote on the deal. While some Democrats are also pushing the White House’s goal for approval before the August recess, others are wary of delivering Trump a signature legislative victory as he hits the campaign trail for his 2020 re-election bid.

The administration has put pressure on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Democrats to approve the trade agreement despite lingering concerns about the deal within the Democratic-held House.


The White House’s decision to move forward more quickly than Democrats asked follows a tense meeting between the president and Democratic congressional leaders last week. Trump told Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer that he would not negotiate with them on legislation while House committees investigate him.
Democrats have raised several concerns about the agreement, including enforcement of labor and environmental protections and the deal’s potential effect on drug prices.
As the administration pushes to approve the deal, Vice President Mike Pence met with Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau on Thursday. While in Ottawa, the vice president promised the U.S. would “get the USMCA done this year.”


The notice presented Thursday by the White House to Congress outlines U.S. legal obligations that are required by the USMCA.

Trump is pursuing approval of the deal under so-called fast-track authority, which enables him to seek a straight yes-or-no vote in exchange for clearing certain procedural hurdles.

House Democrats have raised a number of areas where they would like to see changes, including provisions governing labor, the environment and pharmaceuticals. In a step viewed as positive, Pelosi this month created working groups to negotiate with the administration.

The removal of U.S. steel and aluminum tariffs on Canada and Mexico this month also cleared a hurdle for lawmakers of both parties.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-30/trump-plows-ahead-with-usmca-approval-plan-as-democrats-waver

[Zippyjuan]

A 5% tariff on the amount of trade goods coming to the US, for one year, would raise about... $10 Billion.

By the time negotiating even began, the tariffs would be gone, and wall paid for.

Almost, at 6 million a mile, that's about 1667 miles. Border is about 2000. Keep the tariffs for another 3 months. 15 months, wall paid for.

Paid for by US companies and consumers. Mexico and China don't pay the tariffs, we do.

[Zippyjuan]

Trump is pursuing approval of the deal under so-called fast-track authority, which enables him to seek a straight yes-or-no vote in exchange for clearing certain procedural hurdles.

https://piie.com/blogs/trade-investment-policy-watch/trump-can-push-congress-nafta-congress-can-push-back


In accordance with the fast track provision of Trade Promotion Authority, Congress is supposed to vote the USMCA up or down, without amendments, within 90 legislative days of the introduction of implementing legislation—an event that may not occur before early 2019, because drafting the implementing legislation will likely consume more than a month. However, juxtaposition of the 6-month termination letter and the fast track timeline implies that congressional deliberations should be concluded while NAFTA termination is still pending.

But Speaker Pelosi created ample precedent for ignoring the fast track timeline in 2008, when she overrode TPA procedures for the Peru, Colombia, and Korea free trade agreements. Assuming she is re-elected speaker in January, what she did to President Bush in 2008 she could do again to President Trump in 2019. As justification, Pelosi could cite the scant consultation between the administration and congressional Democrats before the USMCA text was finalized.

If USMCA is either rejected by Congress when the 6-month termination date arrives, or the vote has not yet been taken, and Trump declares NAFTA dead and gone, what then?

The Trump administration will face multiple lawsuits, filed by business firms, states, senators, and members of Congress, all claiming that Trump lacks the authority to impose tariffs on imports from Canada or Mexico, or to rescind other features of the NAFTA Implementation Act of 1993 (H.R. 3450). Moreover, both H.R. 3450 and the Trade Agreements Act of 1974 outline congressional consultation procedures that the president should follow prior to re-imposing tariffs on Canada and Mexico.

If Trump takes his time on the imposition of new tariffs, North America could reach the middle of 2020 before the politically and commercially disruptive event date. A presidential election will then be in sight, which could be reason for further delay.

But if Trump attempts to circumvent court review and congressional consultations by invoking other statutes to revive pre-NAFTA tariffs,[1] he could spark a congressional firestorm. Article I, section 8 of the US Constitution gives Congress, not the president, jurisdiction over foreign commerce. Congressional outrage could in turn foster sweeping legislation to restrain the president.

Congress enacted several statutes over the past century that gave the president multiple powers to restrict foreign commerce. But those delegated powers could be constrained by fresh legislation attached to a single “must pass” bill. That prospect, together with the adverse financial and business consequences of new tariffs, could well persuade the president to think again.



Or the House could just vote "no" on approval. (Trump never did follow through on his threat to vacate NAFTA).

[ARealConservative]

never going to defend tariffs. EVER!

[UWDude]

Paid for by US companies and consumers. Mexico and China don't pay the tariffs, we do.

us consumers have planty of consumer goods, those are cheap and easy.

land and housing, however, is becoming an outrageous burden.
a person can not live on 40 hour a week minimum wage where i live (very high immigration area), without sharing a house with others.
nobody cares about the price of avacadoes and car parts, when rent is literally over 75% of their income.


stopping immigration relieves pressure on real estate prices.

[UWDude]

and for those whodont know, city walls were built for two reasons:

1) to defend against invaders
2) to tax people wanting to do business inside. as much as merchants hated paying these "tarrifs", they payed them anyway, because access to the market was far more profitable than not having access to it.

[Stratovarious]

Brilliant move, but we won't see real improvement till we have border security,
all incentives are cut , illegals are deported.

[tfurrh]

2) to tax people wanting to do business inside. as much as merchants hated paying these "tarrifs", they payed them anyway, because access to the market was far more profitable than not having access to it.

Then the merchant, being out the cost, charges more for his merchandise. From there, long term, it's all downhill in a million different directions.

[nikcers]

Then the merchant, being out the cost, charges more for his merchandise. From there, long term, it's all downhill in a million different directions.

Either that or people go through other merchants. The thing I have noticed about the Chinese tarrifs is that China made it cheaper for companies to do business in china in order to circumvent the costs at burden to the rest of the Chinese economy.


Since they subsidize so much of their "capitalism" making things cost more for people who produce gives people an incentive to do business in other countries to circumvent the cost and China would rather subsidize that cost rather than lose the business entirely so they are taking a lot more of a beating on this than you would imagine because they don't have free markets.

[TheTexan]

Since they subsidize so much of their "capitalism" making things cost more for people who produce gives people an incentive to do business in other countries to circumvent the cost and China would rather subsidize that cost rather than lose the business entirely so they are taking a lot more of a beating on this than you would imagine because they don't have free markets.

Trump's tariffs are teaching China a lesson in the importance of free markets :cool:

[nikcers]

Trump's tariffs are teaching China a lesson in the importance of free markets :cool:

They didn't like that secret meeting with Taiwan either.

[TheTexan]

Trump's tariffs are the best tariffs, really great, ask anyone

[phill4paul]

Then the merchant, being out the cost, charges more for his merchandise. From there, long term, it's all downhill in a million different directions.

The merchant (importer) is not necessarily out of the cost. Nor the buyer of the merchandise. The merchant, realizing that the higher cost would price his merchandise out of the acceptable price range for customers, would then do one of two things. He would either tell the wholesaler that they would need to eat some of the cost and therefore receive a lesser profit. Or he would look to other wholesalers for like products that do not carry the tariff.

[ARealConservative]

Trump's tariffs are the best tariffs, really great, ask anyone

all the other tariffs are disasters!

[Zippyjuan]

The merchant (importer) is not necessarily out of the cost. Nor the buyer of the merchandise. The merchant, realizing that the higher cost would price his merchandise out of the acceptable price range for customers, would then do one of two things. He would either tell the wholesaler that they would need to eat some of the cost and therefore receive a lesser profit. Or he would look to other wholesalers for like products that do not carry the tariff.

When tariffs raised the prices on imported washing machines, US producers simply raised their prices to match. Consumers paid higher prices even if they avoided an imported machine directly effected by the tariff.

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/trump-s-washing-machine-tariffs-are-costing-americans-almost-100-n999461



Trump's washing machine tariffs are costing Americans almost $100 more per appliance

American manufacturers have also jacked up the cost of their appliances, in order to match the higher price of their competitors.

[goldenequity]

1134535364578816000
https://twitter.com/RonPaul/status/1134535364578816000

[nikcers]

When tariffs raised the prices on imported washing machines, US producers simply raised their prices to match. Consumers paid higher prices even if they avoided an imported machine directly effected by the tariff.

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/trump-s-washing-machine-tariffs-are-costing-americans-almost-100-n999461

Doesn't that mean that people can buy American made at a similar price as Chinese made products so that people are more likely to buy the American Washing machine than if the Chinese one was cheaper? Isn't that a net gain for the American economy if more Americans invest into it?

[TheTexan]

When tariffs raised the prices on imported washing machines, US producers simply raised their prices to match. Consumers paid higher prices even if they avoided an imported machine directly effected by the tariff.

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/trump-s-washing-machine-tariffs-are-costing-americans-almost-100-n999461

Besides the fact that the prices rose immediately after the tariff took effect, do you have any evidence to substantiate the claim that it was the tariffs that caused the increase in prices, and not just fluctuations in the washing machine market cycles?

[Zippyjuan]

Doesn't that mean that people can buy American made at a similar price as Chinese made products so that people are more likely to buy the American Washing machine than if the Chinese one was cheaper? Isn't that a net gain for the American economy if more Americans invest into it?

If I raise my price by $100 and you raise yours by $100, which is now the better deal? Will you buy a different one than before the prices were raised? (it may make you less likely to buy either and keep your old one longer).

[tfurrh]

The merchant (importer) is not necessarily out of the cost. Nor the buyer of the merchandise. The merchant, realizing that the higher cost would price his merchandise out of the acceptable price range for customers, would then do one of two things. He would either tell the wholesaler that they would need to eat some of the cost and therefore receive a lesser profit. Or he would look to other wholesalers for like products that do not carry the tariff.

Yes, there a million different directions this gets sideways.

[nikcers]

If I raise my price by $100 and you raise yours by $100, which is now the better deal? Will you buy a different one than before the prices were raised? (it may make you less likely to buy either and keep your old one longer).

If I buy a Chinese Washing machine tarrifs bring money back into the American economy, If I buy an American Washing machine, that money goes back into the American economy.

[TheTexan]

If I buy a Chinese Washing machine tarrifs bring money back into the American economy, If I buy an American Washing machine, that money goes back into the American economy.

You'll also get a higher quality washing machine because America

[Zippyjuan]

If I buy a Chinese Washing machine tarrifs bring money back into the American economy, If I buy an American Washing machine, that money goes back into the American economy.

Either way you are paying $100 more you could have spent on something else (the $100 tariff goes to the US Government- a tax you are paying you did not have to before). You could have had the washing machine AND $100 worth of something else (toys, food, clothes, etc) creating more US jobs than if there were no tariffs.

[phill4paul]

When tariffs raised the prices on imported washing machines, US producers simply raised their prices to match. Consumers paid higher prices even if they avoided an imported machine directly effected by the tariff.

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/consumer/trump-s-washing-machine-tariffs-are-costing-americans-almost-100-n999461


Whatever impact the tariffs are having on prices isn't likely to last long.

In January, Samsung started to make washers in its first U.S. plant, in Newberry County, S.C. And LG plans to produce washers in the U.S. for the first time this fall near Clarksville, Tenn.

Once their U.S. plants are fully operational, their need to import washers will drop sharply. “If not to zero, certainly below the 1.2 million quota,” says Thomas Prusa, Ph.D., a professor of economics at Rutgers University.

https://www.consumerreports.org/prices-price-comparison/washing-machine-prices-starting-to-rise/

[TheTexan]

Either way you are paying $100 more you could have spent on something else (the $100 tariff goes to the US Government- a tax you are paying you did not have to before). You could have had the washing machine AND $100 worth of something else (toys, food, clothes, etc) creating more US jobs than if there were no tariffs.

That's pre-Trump economics.

Those rules of economics don't apply to winners who know how to make deals

[nikcers]

Either way you are paying $100 more you could have spent on something else (the $100 tariff goes to the US Government- a tax you are paying you did not have to before). You could have had the washing machine AND $100 worth of something else (toys, food, clothes, etc) creating more US jobs than if there were no tariffs.
If what you are saying is true and I have a choice between buying American for the same price as Chinese I will buy American, doesn't that add money to the economy?

[Zippyjuan]

If what you are saying is true and I have a choice between buying American for the same price as Chinese I will buy American, doesn't that add money to the economy?

Yes.

[Zippyjuan]

https://www.consumerreports.org/prices-price-comparison/washing-machine-prices-starting-to-rise/

From the CR article:


U.S. makers told CR that they are increasing prices because of rising costs and other factors.

“We have announced cost-based price increases on our U.S. laundry business, tied to raw material increases, investments in innovation,” says Whirlpool’s Kristine Sherman, senior manager of global media. The increase applies to both washers and dryers. “These will be effective in the second quarter.”

A big cost is materials- Trump tariffs on steel and aluminum (used to make the machines) caused those prices to rise.


“It’s too soon to tell if more increases are coming," he continues. "We’ll see what the competition does this summer and as new models are brought out.”


Normal life cycle aside, manufacturers might have other tariffs to contend with, as Whirlpool's Sherman alluded to above. Given that washers are essentially big metal boxes, the effects of recently imposed tariffs on imported steel and aluminum are yet another factor that could contribute to an increase in price.

[tfurrh]

Congress should just go home. Everything's an emergency so the Prez gots this. Who needs checks when there's an emergency? They didn't have emergencies in the 1700s.

[Zippyjuan]

Congress should just go home. Everything's an emergency so the Prez gots this.

If everything is an emergency, we must not be doing very well under his leadership.

[nikcers]

Congress should just go home. Everything's an emergency so the Prez gots this.

Who needs a swamp when you have the president. :cool:

[phill4paul]

From the CR article:



A big cost is materials- Trump tariffs on steel and aluminum (used to make the machines) caused those prices to rise.

And as U.S. steel ramps up those prices come down. Almost $10 billion in new investments. This is how you win a trade war against a foreign country subsidizing it's steel industry to dump and drive down prices so that our manufacturing plants go out of business. America First!


Amid resilient auto sales, anxiety over future trade friction and a stream of improved profits, major steel suppliers have unveiled $9.7 billion in planned plant investments to boost their U.S. capacity.


https://www.autonews.com/suppliers/steel-suppliers-plan-big-projects

[Zippyjuan]

And as U.S. steel ramps up those prices come down. Almost $10 billion in new investments. This is how you win a trade war against a foreign country subsidizing it's steel industry to dump and drive down prices so that our manufacturing plants go out of business. America First!



https://www.autonews.com/suppliers/steel-suppliers-plan-big-projects

That new investment was in a replacement plant the company said would not increase their production levels once completed- the old plant will be torn down and the same amount of steel will be produced. That will leave the supply the same as before and aside from other potential factors, its price too. The investment is to increase efficiency (more automation, fewer workers needed) and reduce pollution. The upgrades have been in the planning for years- it was not in response to tariffs.

https://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania/2019/05/02/u-s-steel-1b-in-upgrades-to-plants-near-pittsburgh-will-help-with-air-pollution-efficiency/


Mr. Burritt said the $1 billion investment has been in the works for years.

[phill4paul]

That new investment was in a replacement plant the company said would not increase their production levels once completed- the old plant will be torn down and the same amount of steel will be produced. That will leave the supply the same as before and aside from other potential factors, its price too. The investment is to increase efficiency (more automation, fewer workers needed) and reduce pollution. The upgrades have been in the planning for years- it was not in response to tariffs.

https://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania/2019/05/02/u-s-steel-1b-in-upgrades-to-plants-near-pittsburgh-will-help-with-air-pollution-efficiency/

Nice try. But it isn't just ONE company. Re-read the article. You have a problem grasping the scope the first time around as you parse for your bullshit globalist narrative. Trump should announce a $100 Billion Federal Government investment in U.S. steel and lift all EPA regulations so we could undercut the Chinese and dump steel and destroy their market. How would you be with that? Because that is that China did.

[axiomata]

Besides the fact that the prices rose immediately after the tariff took effect, do you have any evidence to substantiate the claim that it was the tariffs that caused the increase in prices, and not just fluctuations in the washing machine market cycles?

Washing machine prices have increased because Trump has shut down these company's money laundering operations.

[Swordsmyth]

Being reliant on hostile foreign countries that are facilitating an invasion designed to turn us into a communist dictatorship is an emergency and it is a very bad idea.

[Zippyjuan]

Being reliant on hostile foreign countries that are facilitating an invasion designed to turn us into a communist dictatorship is an emergency and it is a very bad idea.

Loads of cliches from the Internet Guidebook.

[Swordsmyth]

Loads of cliches from the Internet Guidebook.
Loads of truths.

[phill4paul]

Good. Apply economic pressure to stop the funneling of illegal immigrants. I am approve. It appears Trump is just going to make Mexico our border wall. Good.

[Zippyjuan]

Good. Apply economic pressure to stop the funneling of illegal immigrants. I am approve. It appears Trump is just going to make Mexico our border wall. Good.

If the tariffs make things more difficult in Mexico, more of them may decide to go to the US to look for work. More immigrants.

[Swordsmyth]

If the tariffs make things more difficult in Mexico, more of them may decide to go to the US to look for work. More immigrants.
They are already a hellhole and they are in the midst of destroying themselves further with AMLO's communism, we can only gain by pressuring them to stop helping the invasion.

We do need to do even more to secure the borders but this is a very good step.

[Zippyjuan]

They are already a hellhole and they are in the midst of destroying themselves further with AMLO's communism, we can only gain by pressuring them to stop helping the invasion.

We do need to do even more to secure the borders but this is a very good step.

"communism!" "Invasion!" "Destroy"! Get those important key words in your discussions. Repeat often.

[Swordsmyth]

"communism!" "Invasion!" "Destroy"! Get those important key words in your discussions. Repeat often.
Denying reality isn't an argument.

[phill4paul]

If the tariffs make things more difficult in Mexico, more of them may decide to go to the US to look for work. More immigrants.

It won't. The money makers in Mexico know what goose lays the golden egg. It's not the illegal trespassers from it's more southern states, which costs them, and their citizens are getting tired of putting them up. It's an easy fix for better relations. 1,125 miles of border enforcement. A hell of a thick wall. Sounds like a winning plan to me.

[ARealConservative]

I'm not sure what makes me more sad

that America expects other countries to enforce our laws

or that any members of Ron Paul forums defends the practice.

[Schifference]

Mexico may pay for the wall after all.

[Zippyjuan]

Mexico may pay for the wall after all.

Tariffs are paid by Americans.

[Swordsmyth]

I'm not sure what makes me more sad

that America expects other countries to enforce our laws

or that any members of Ron Paul forums defends the practice.
Facilitating the invasion of our country is an act of war against us.

[Schifference]

Mexico may decide that it is in their best interest to keep people that are in their country from entering the US. Would be easier for Mexico to do that if they had a wall to keep their people in.

[Swordsmyth]

Tariffs are paid by Americans.
Not necessarily, the exporter often lowers their prices to keep the marketshare and if Mexico stops aiding the invasion the tariffs will go away.

[Stratovarious]

Tariffs are paid by Americans.

That is true, but it will hurt Mexico more and why would you not want
to keep illegals out of America, unless you are a Globalist?

[nikcers]

Tariffs are paid by Americans.

Lots of Mexicans will pay for it too effectively since they live here.

[ARealConservative]

Facilitating the invasion of our country is an act of war against us.

not enforcing our laws <> Facilitating

when your arguments are that sophomoric - you should really reconsider your position

[Stratovarious]

Not necessarily, the exporter often lowers their prices to keep the marketshare and if Mexico stops aiding the invasion the tariffs will go away.
That can be the case as well , though it's not guaranteed, taxes go up, prices go up, inflation
hits manufacturers the market/buyers pays.
Sure there is a squeeze at the factories to a point, then they start shutting down if they don't
cover 'new' expenses.

[Stratovarious]

not enforcing our laws <> Facilitating

when your arguments are that sophomoric - you should really reconsider your position
WUT?

This isn't even 1d chess.

[Zippyjuan]

not enforcing our laws <> Facilitating

when your arguments are that sophomoric - you should really reconsider your position

He only uses catch phrases- not real arguments. And never ask him for facts to back anything up. You won't get anything.

[Stratovarious]

Lots of Mexicans will pay for it too effectively since they live here.

So will the Taliban....

: )

[Swordsmyth]

not enforcing our laws <> Facilitating

when your arguments are that sophomoric - you should really reconsider your position
They don't enforce their own laws because the invaders are headed to the US and they give them aid in getting here, that is facilitating the invasion.

Your arguments are sophomoric.

[Stratovarious]

He only uses catch phrases- not real arguments. And never ask him for facts to back anything up. You won't get anything.


Beautiful statement,

Now tell us why open borders should work in America while is works nowhere else in the World.

[ARealConservative]

They don't enforce their own laws because the invaders are headed to the US and they give them aid in getting here, that is facilitating the invasion.


can you prove the Mexican government is giving them aid to get here or is that hyperbole?


Your arguments are sophomoric

prove it in the above question please.

[Zippyjuan]

Beautiful statement,

Now tell us why open borders should work in America while is works nowhere else in the World.

Borders are not open. Are you suggesting we open them?

1072459097855938560

1075732375169060869

[Swordsmyth]

can you prove the Mexican government is giving them aid to get here or is that hyperbole?
Yes, they have been providing the caravans with police escorts and they have done more than that.

A Mexican Manual for Illegal Migrants Upsets Some in U.S.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/06/wo...ome-in-us.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/06/world/americas/a-mexican-manual-for-illegal-migrants-upsets-some-in-us.html)

MEXICO CITY, Jan. 5 - The Mexican government drew fire from American advocates of tighter borders on Wednesday for publishing a pamphlet that instructs migrants how to safely enter the United States illegally and live there without being detected.

Officials here say the small booklet, illustrated in comic-book style, is not intended to encourage illegal immigration, but to reduce the loss of life. Last year, more than 300 migrants died while crossing rivers and deserts to reach the United States.

The guidebook also advises would-be migrants to avoid hiring professional immigrant-smugglers and to refuse to carry packages for others. It also instructs people never to lie to border officials, carry false documents or resist arrest.

But groups favoring stricter immigration controls said the pamphlet amounted to a how-to manual for illegal immigrants. The booklet gives advice on what clothes to wear when fording a river and how to cross a desert without getting dehydrated



Guide for the Mexican Migrant http://www.amren.com/archives/report...xican-migrant/ (http://www.amren.com/archives/reports/guide-for-the-mexican-migrant/)

http://2kpcwh2r7phz1nq4jj237m22.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Cover.jpg

PDF - https://www.cfif.org/htdocs/legislat...an-booklet.pdf (https://www.cfif.org/htdocs/legislative_issues/federal_issues/hot_issues_in_congress/immigration/mexican-booklet.pdf)



Grupos Beta
Grupos Beta is a service by the National Institute of Migration of Mexico offering water, medical aid, and information to immigrants at risk. The first Grupos Beta was started in Beta Tijuana in 1990.Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grupos_Beta)

And that is just some of it.




prove it in the above question please.


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by ARealConservative http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=6805851#post6805851)
not enforcing our laws <> Facilitating

when your arguments are that sophomoric - you should really reconsider your position


When you claim that I say that mexico not enforcing our laws is facilitating that is sophomoric because that isn't what I said.

[Swordsmyth]

Borders are not open. Are you suggesting we open them?

1072459097855938560

1075732375169060869

Millions of invaders are already here and millions more pour in constantly, that's open.

[Swordsmyth]

can you prove the Mexican government is giving them aid to get here or is that hyperbole?

Aside from what I put in the first reply it is also facilitating the invasion to deliberately not enforce their own laws because they know the invaders are headed for the US and aren't going to stay in Mexico.

[Zippyjuan]

Yes, they have been providing the caravans with police escorts and they have done more than that.

A Mexican Manual for Illegal Migrants Upsets Some in U.S.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/06/wo...ome-in-us.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/06/world/americas/a-mexican-manual-for-illegal-migrants-upsets-some-in-us.html)

MEXICO CITY, Jan. 5 - The Mexican government drew fire from American advocates of tighter borders on Wednesday for publishing a pamphlet that instructs migrants how to safely enter the United States illegally and live there without being detected.

Officials here say the small booklet, illustrated in comic-book style, is not intended to encourage illegal immigration, but to reduce the loss of life. Last year, more than 300 migrants died while crossing rivers and deserts to reach the United States.

The guidebook also advises would-be migrants to avoid hiring professional immigrant-smugglers and to refuse to carry packages for others. It also instructs people never to lie to border officials, carry false documents or resist arrest.

But groups favoring stricter immigration controls said the pamphlet amounted to a how-to manual for illegal immigrants. The booklet gives advice on what clothes to wear when fording a river and how to cross a desert without getting dehydrated



Guide for the Mexican Migrant http://www.amren.com/archives/report...xican-migrant/ (http://www.amren.com/archives/reports/guide-for-the-mexican-migrant/)

http://2kpcwh2r7phz1nq4jj237m22.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Cover.jpg

PDF - https://www.cfif.org/htdocs/legislat...an-booklet.pdf (https://www.cfif.org/htdocs/legislative_issues/federal_issues/hot_issues_in_congress/immigration/mexican-booklet.pdf)



Grupos Beta
Grupos Beta is a service by the National Institute of Migration of Mexico offering water, medical aid, and information to immigrants at risk. The first Grupos Beta was started in Beta Tijuana in 1990.Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grupos_Beta)

And that is just some of it.


When you claim that I say that mexico not enforcing our laws is facilitating that is sophomoric because that isn't what I said.

That is from fourteen years ago (2005). There are an estimated one million FEWER illegal immigrants in the US since 2007 recession hit.

[Zippyjuan]

But let's support making government bigger to protect us.

https://reason.com/2018/11/29/illegal-immigrants-are-at-a-10-year-low/


Illegal Immigrants Are at a 10-Year Low, So Can We Chill for a Minute?

"The decline is due almost entirely to a sharp decrease in the number of Mexicans entering the country without authorization."

A funny thing happened on the way to stringing razor wire, splitting up families, and sending the military to police the United States' border with Mexico: The number of illegal immigrants—especially from Mexico—in America continued its decade-long decline. Via Pew Research:

The number of unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. fell to its lowest level in more than a decade, according to new Pew Research Center estimates based on 2016 government data. The decline is due almost entirely to a sharp decrease in the number of Mexicans entering the country without authorization.

Note that we reached peak illegals (and peak illegal Mexicans) back in 2006 or 2007, right around the time the housing bubble popped and what eventually become the financial crisis started kicking into high (low?) gear. Between 2007 and 2016, the number of unauthorized Mexican immigrants declined from about 6.9 million people to 5.5 million people. These days, illegals are most likely to come from Asia (especially China and India) and to enter the country with legal documents, such as a tourist, student, or work visa and then overstay. Deportations peaked in 2013, when Barack Obama was running the show.

Why has illegal immigration from Mexico declined? According to Pew's Jeffrey Passel and D'Vera Cohn, illegals missed their families. One also presumes that the sluggish U.S. economy presented fewer opportunities.

According to Mexican government survey data [from 2009 to 2014], most returnees said they left the U.S. of their own accord, and the majority cited family reunification as the main reason for going to Mexico. However, 14% said they came back because they were deported.


Pew Research
At the same time, the number of illegals from Central America (chiefly Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatemala) has increased over the past decade, from 1.5 million people to about 1.85 million.

Why might more Central Americans' be heading north? Mostly because those countries have gotten poorer over time, often due to U.S. intervention. Reason's Shikha Dalmia explains, in the 1980s,

President Ronald Reagan, eager for a showdown with the [Soviet Union, funded]…the Contra insurgency against the Nicaraguan Sandinistas and paramilitary operations to prop up the U.S.-friendly regimes of El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala.

The upshot was civil war and a complete social breakdown from which these countries have never recovered.

As Princeton's Doug Massey noted at a recent immigration conference (that I co-organized on behalf of Reason Foundation), in the 1960s, the GDP of these "frontline countries" was equivalent to those of "non-frontline states" such as Costa Rica, Belize, and Panama. Now the latter cohort's GDP is almost three times greater. Likewise, while the homicide rate of non-frontline states is 19.7 per 100,000, it is 43.5 per 100,000 for the frontline states. San Pedro Sula, the Honduran city where the caravan started, has become the murder capital of the world.

Prior to Reagan's intervention, migration from Central America was negligible.

[Swordsmyth]

That is from fourteen years ago (2005). There are an estimated one million FEWER illegal immigrants in the US since 2007 recession hit.
They haven't stopped facilitating the invaders and there are admitted to be over 20 Million already here with the flood of invaders accelerating.

[Zippyjuan]

They haven't stopped facilitating the invaders and there are admitted to be over 20 Million already here with the flood of invaders accelerating.

Cliches are flying fast today. It is like talking to a bot.

[Swordsmyth]

But let's support making government bigger to protect us.

https://reason.com/2018/11/29/illegal-immigrants-are-at-a-10-year-low/
Liberal propaganda from before the flood was accelerated.

20+ million is too many, it's long past time to stop the flow and throw them out before they finish turning the entire country into a single party communist state like Kalifornia.

[Swordsmyth]

Cliches are flying fast today. It is like talking to a bot.
LOL

I accept your surrender.

[Zippyjuan]

Liberal propaganda from before the flood was accelerated.

20+ million is too many, it's long past time to stop the flow and throw them out before they finish turning the entire country into a single party communist state like Kalifornia.

You used that one already today. No originality. "Select your key words or phrases and use them often for maximum effect."

[Swordsmyth]

You used that one already today. No originality.
Lies need to be original, the truth doesn't.

[Stratovarious]

Borders are not open. Are you suggesting we open them?

1072459097855938560

1075732375169060869

LMAO ,,



You're not, you don't ? wtf zippy ?7777

[Swordsmyth]

BREAKING: After Trump threatens tariffs, Mexico's President Lopez Obrador asks Trump to have U.S. officials meet with the Mexican foreign minister in Washington on Friday to seek a solution that benefits both nations – Reuters
— Breaking911 (@Breaking911) May 31, 2019 (https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1134288926229901312?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)

[r3volution 3.0]

That's a difference without a distinction.

https://mondrian.mashable.com/uploads%252Fcard%252Fimage%252F194130%252Fmeme.jpg %252F950x534__filters%253Aquality%252890%2529.jpg? signature=mjt8LVXX43eSLE6WwwMpoLurfgA=&source=https%3A%2F%2Fblueprint-api-production.s3.amazonaws.com

No...


My idea only costs those who are breaking the law, therefore it is more of a fine than a tax.

Mexico and the other countries involved are waging war on the US and it is time we fought back with appropriate counter measures.

Higher taxes = larger government

Abuse English as you like, the facts won't change.

[Slave Mentality]

I'm not sure what makes me more sad

that America expects other countries to enforce our laws

or that any members of Ron Paul forums defends the practice.

Indeed.

[nikcers]

Who do you think makes a ton of money off trade with Mexico? Detroit fell of the map because of all that trade, it was a bustling town, one of the richest cities. Well you say this is going to hurt Americans the most, yeah- Its going to hurt the cronies that have control over 70% of all of the money in this country and own the congress the worst. Maybe that will get the congress to listen by hitting them at their donors wallets.

[Swordsmyth]

Mexico’s president on Saturday hinted his country could tighten migration controls to defuse U.S. President Donald Trump’s threat to impose tariffs on Mexican goods, and said he expected “good results” from talks planned in Washington next week.

In a news conference in the Gulf of Mexico port of Veracruz, President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador said Mexico could be ready to step up measures to contain a recent surge in migration in order to reach a deal with the United States.
A major Mexican delegation led by Foreign Minister Marcelo Ebrard will discuss the dispute with U.S. officials in Washington on Wednesday, and Lopez Obrador said he expected “good results” from the talks, and for a deal to emerge.
“The main thing is to inform about what we’re already doing on the migration issue, and if it’s necessary to reinforce these measures without violating human rights, we could be prepared to reach that deal,” Lopez Obrador said.
His comments follow those of Jesus Seade, deputy foreign minister for North America, who told Reuters on Friday that Mexico wanted to sharpen existing measures to curb the flow of Central Americans trying to reach U.S. soil.

More at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-mexico/mexican-president-hints-at-migration-concessions-to-defuse-u-s-trade-spat-idUSKCN1T237F

[Dr.3D]

I have to wonder what the people of Ron Paul Forums would be arguing about if Hillery had won the presidency.

[Swordsmyth]

The top Mexican official leading negotiations with the U.S. over President Donald Trump’s newly announced tariffs previously compared Trump to Hitler and described him as an “enemy” of Mexico.

Mexican Foreign Minister Marcelo Ebrard arrived at the Mexican embassy on Saturday and is scheduled to meet with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Wednesday, Ebrard announced on Twitter.
Ebrard, a former Mexico City mayor who has served as foreign secretary since December 2018, has been open in his disdain for Trump in the past.

“He, like Hitler, is a good communicator,” Ebrard told The New Yorker (https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-a-rising-political-star-in-mexico-ended-up-campaigning-for-clinton) in 2016, referring to Trump.

The New Yorker’s article profiled Ebrard’s get-out-the-vote efforts for then-Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton.
“It was after hearing Donald Trump speak that I decided to get much more involved, beyond just giving opinions,” Ebrard told the magazine. “The risk represented by el Señor Trump, the things that he says, in particular about Mexico, but in general, too, are like nothing else I’ve encountered.”
Roughly a week before the 2016 election, Ebrard called Trump the greatest “enemy” that Mexico has faced in “many years.”

Trump es el peor enemigo que México haya enfrentado en muchos años. Debemos esforzarnos para frenarlo con votos en E.U.A.
— Marcelo Ebrard C. (@m_ebrard) October 31, 2016 (https://twitter.com/m_ebrard/status/793237330542800896?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)



Cada voto cuenta, apoyemos a Hillary Clinton. Derrotemos la xenofobia anti mexicana de Trump pic.twitter.com/Qpb314m3Qq (https://t.co/Qpb314m3Qq)
— Marcelo Ebrard C. (@m_ebrard) October 29, 2016 (https://twitter.com/m_ebrard/status/792227774672932864?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)

Now, Ebrard is in the position of leading negotiations with the Trump administration over the tariffs Trump slapped on his country.

More at: https://www.infowars.com/mexican-official-leading-tariff-negotiations-compared-trump-to-hitler-called-him-mexicos-enemy/

[nikcers]

11% of a corrupt governments GDP, I am sure their government has no incentive but to encourage illegal immigration into our country.



But in the impoverished rural areas of western Guatemala, the lure of earning even minimum wage in the US is strong, local residents say. Many expressed skepticism that government initiatives would hold them back.

Many leave for economic reasons, returning to build homes and start small businesses. Those who manage to stay in the US send money back home to their families. Last year, Guatemalans living abroad sent home more than $9.2 billion, equivalent to 11 percent of Guatemala’s GDP.



As for the message the government is sending to migrants to stay home, he is not sure anyone will listen, because Guatemalans generally distrust their politicians. And with good reason.

A UN-backed panel found massive corruption at every level of government in the country, including the judiciary. The country’s president, Jimmy Morales, expelled the UN investigators this year, when his family became the subject of the probe.

And then there is the economic incentive to try to enter the US, which trumps the risk of getting caught and exiled, Aguilar said.

[Swordsmyth]

Mexico on Monday said it would reject a U.S. idea to take in all Central American asylum seekers if it is raised at talks this week with Trump administration, which has threatened to impose tariffs if Mexico does not crack down on illegal immigration.

Mexican Foreign Minister Marcelo Ebrard said the country is committed to continuing to work to keep illegal immigrants from Central America from reaching the U.S. border.
However, he said a more radical proposal favored by some U.S. officials to designate Mexico a “safe third country,” which would force Central Americans seeking asylum in the United States to instead apply for it in Mexico, is not an option.
“An agreement about a safe third country would not be acceptable for Mexico,” Ebrard told reporters in Washington. “They have not yet proposed it to me. But it would not be acceptable and they know it.”
Ebrard will meet U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo during the talks, which will also involve other senior officials.


In a possible sign of U.S. priorities in the talks, which are due to run through at least Wednesday, Department of Homeland Security (DHS) acting Secretary Kevin McAleenan said on Sunday that Mexico should deploy more personnel to stop illegal immigrants along a remote, jungly stretch of border with Guatemala.
McAleenan also said Mexico should bolster its own immigration screenings along that border, crack down on criminal networks transporting migrants and enable more migrants to wait in Mexico while they apply for asylum in the United States.


Approval of a deal to revamp the NAFTA free trade agreement between Mexico, the United States and Canada is also pending and could be hampered by the latest dispute over immigration, said Jesus Seade, Mexico’s deputy foreign minister for North America.
Goldman Sachs’ economists cut their chances that the new USMCA trade agreement - which must be passed by the three countries - will be ratified this year to 35% from 60% previously.

More at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-mexico-deal/mexico-draws-red-line-on-asylum-before-talks-on-trumps-tariff-threat-idUSKCN1T41KU

[Swordsmyth]

Mexico is sending a big delegation to talk about the Border. Problem is, they’ve been “talking” for 25 years. We want action, not talk. They could solve the Border Crisis in one day if they so desired. Otherwise, our companies and jobs are coming back to the USA!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 2, 2019 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1135249668751929345?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)

People have been saying for years that we should talk to Mexico. The problem is that Mexico is an “abuser” of the United States, taking but never giving. It has been this way for decades. Either they stop the invasion of our Country by Drug Dealers, Cartels, Human Traffickers….
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 2, 2019 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1135150117252673536?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)

….Coyotes and Illegal Immigrants, which they can do very easily, or our many companies and jobs that have been foolishly allowed to move South of the Border, will be brought back into the United States through taxation (Tariffs). America has had enough!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 2, 2019 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1135150118120939521?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)

[nikcers]

If the tariffs make things more difficult in Mexico, more of them may decide to go to the US to look for work. More immigrants.

More illegal immigration might be a boon for republican elections. Trump wins no matter what?

[axiomata]

"Really tariffs, have to originate with Congress, and I think you can't just declare emergencies on spending, on tariffs, on arms sales"

Rand Paul

Stand with Rand everyone?

[nobody's_hero]

I have to wonder what the people of Ron Paul Forums would be arguing about if Hillery had won the presidency.

I could name several folks who probably wouldn't be here to do any arguing. I'm sure we'd accomplish just as much, though. Which is to say, nothing at all.

[nikcers]

I could name several folks who probably wouldn't be here to do any arguing. I'm sure we'd accomplish just as much, though. Which is to say, nothing at all.

Hillary would still be using government agencies to go after her political enemies, and have more power to do it so you're right some of us might not even be here.

[Swordsmyth]

"Really tariffs, have to originate with Congress, and I think you can't just declare emergencies on spending, on tariffs, on arms sales"

Rand Paul

Stand with Rand everyone?
If Rand proposes legislation to remove the delegated tariff power from ALL Presidents.

[nikcers]

If Rand proposes legislation to remove the delegated tariff power from ALL Presidents.

I think the idea is that Rand doesn't think that any branch of the government should be able to delegate their constitutional power to the other branches of government because it goes against the seperation of powers that the founders had intended would prevent tyranny. It's the only intellectually honest argument he can make otherwise he would be lying. The big government republicans are probably the most likely to vote to veto this, maybe a veto could give us a MAGA movement for congress and a better congress.

[Swordsmyth]

I think the idea is that Rand doesn't think that any branch of the government should be able to delegate their constitutional power to the other branches of government because it goes against the seperation of powers that the founders had intended would prevent tyranny. It's the only intellectually honest argument he can make otherwise he would be lying. The big government republicans are probably the most likely to vote to veto this, maybe a veto could give us a MAGA movement for congress and better congress.
I understand that argument but the Constitution doesn't prohibit delegation and our enemies have used delegated powers to destroy America so unless Congress is going to revoke the delegation I don't support fighting to repair the damage with one hand behind our back.

[nikcers]

I understand that argument but the Constitution doesn't prohibit delegation and our enemies have used delegated powers to destroy America so unless Congress is going to revoke the delegation I don't support fighting to repair the damage with one hand behind our back.

The national emergency is a slippery slope, if he can't veto it than maybe we can get a better congress. What's next a national emergency on the debt that forces them to cut 2 pennies out of every dollar?

[Swordsmyth]

Mexico Cracks Down on Migrants, After Pressure From Trump to Act (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/mexico-cracks-down-on-migrants-after-pressure-from-trump-to-act/ar-AACkScv?ocid=spartandhp)

[nikcers]

I understand that argument but the Constitution doesn't prohibit delegation and our enemies have used delegated powers to destroy America so unless Congress is going to revoke the delegation I don't support fighting to repair the damage with one hand behind our back.

If Lindsey Graham became the next president would you be okay with him starting wars everywhere?

[Swordsmyth]

If Lindsey Graham became the next president would you be okay with him starting wars everywhere?
No, I would oppose his use of delegated powers for bad purposes and I would call for Congress to revoke the delegation.

I would support Trump's use of delegated powers for good purposes and oppose it for bad purposes meanwhile I would support Rand if he called for Congress to revoke the delegation and I would eventually call for the revocation if we fixed all the problems the delegated powers could be used to fix and/or got a better Congress that would fix the problems themselves.

[timosman]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/04/politics/republican-opposition-mexico-tariffs/


June 4, 2019

.....

For now, many Republican members are just hoping that the delegation from Mexico can reach an alternative deal to stop the tariffs, a notion underscored by McConnell in his comments to reporters.
"We had an opportunity at lunch to talk to a number of representatives of the White House about this particular strategy," he said. "I think I can safely say most of us hope that this Mexican delegation is coming to discuss the challenges at the border and what the Mexicans might be able to do to help us more than they have, will be fruitful" and tariffs won't be imposed."
Asked if the GOP-led Senate would block the move, he demurred.
"What I'm telling you is that we're hoping that doesn't happen and we appreciated the opportunity -- we spent almost our entire lunch talking to representatives of the White House about his issue," McConnell said. "I know the Mexican delegation is here. Apparently, these talks are going well and I our hope is that the tariffs will be avoided, and we will not have to answer the hypothetical."

...

[Swordsmyth]

Republicans flirt with rebellion if Trump moves ahead on Mexico tariffs https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/04/polit...exico-tariffs/ (https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/04/politics/republican-opposition-mexico-tariffs/)

RINOs gonna RINO.

[timosman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fgV4PPKS78

[Swordsmyth]

President Trump (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-meghan-markle-nasty-piers-morgan-interview) took a swipe Tuesday night at Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, (https://www.foxnews.com/category/politics/senate/democrats) D-N.Y., who said he believes Trump ultimately will back down on the threat of tariffs on all goods coming into the U.S. from Mexico.
“Can you imagine Cryin’ Chuck Schumer saying out loud, for all to hear, that I am bluffing with respect to putting Tariffs on Mexico. What a Creep. He would rather have our Country fail with drugs & Immigration than give Republicans a win. But he gave Mexico bad advice, no bluff!” Trump tweeted. (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1136061313174659073)


More at: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-chuck-schumer-tariffs-follow-through

[nikcers]

No, I would oppose his use of delegated powers for bad purposes and I would call for Congress to revoke the delegation.

I would support Trump's use of delegated powers for good purposes and oppose it for bad purposes meanwhile I would support Rand if he called for Congress to revoke the delegation and I would eventually call for the revocation if we fixed all the problems the delegated powers could be used to fix and/or got a better Congress that would fix the problems themselves.

They would use fake news to drown out the "bad purposes" label. They would say you are unamerican for not wanting to defend the country. They would say you are siding with the terrorists or even call you a Russian agent. You have to have checks and balances otherwise people lose their representation in government and the other side gets to do whatever they want if they get in power. This is the fundamental reason why the tea party came about, because we didn't want a dictator. Its one thing if the congress can't override, that would mean that its the will of the people. Its an entirely different thing for you to say we should have a dictator because the left had a dictator. I thought we had stopped this shit by helping Trump get elected. I wont support Trump as a dictator or any other president dictator.

[Swordsmyth]

They would use fake news to drown out the "bad purposes" label. They would say you are unamerican for not wanting to defend the country. They would say you are siding with the terrorists or even call you a Russian agent. You have to have checks and balances otherwise people lose their representation in government and the other side gets to do whatever they want if they get in power. This is the fundamental reason why the tea party came about, because we didn't want a dictator. Its one thing if the congress can't override, that would mean that its the will of the people. Its an entirely different thing for you to say we should have a dictator because the left had a dictator. I thought we had stopped this $#@! by helping Trump get elected. I wont support Trump as a dictator or any other president dictator.
I said I would support an effort to withdraw the delegations right now, I just wouldn't start one myself until we undo the damage the enemy has done with them.

[Anti Globalist]

Something tells me illegal immigration isn't going to stop anytime soon.

[Zippyjuan]

Something tells me illegal immigration isn't going to stop anytime soon.

Only when the US is the most undesirable place in the world to live. Should that be a goal?

[Swordsmyth]

Only when the US is the most undesirable place in the world to live. Should that be a goal?
That is not required to stop the invasion but that is what the invasion will cause.

[nikcers]

Only when the US is the most undesirable place in the world to live. Should that be a goal?

The goal should be for other countries to desire to be more like the United States, not for all of their citizens that want their country to be more like the United States to come here because that's easier than fixing their own country.

[Zippyjuan]

That is not required to stop the invasion but that is what the invasion will cause.

You would have to stop all travel into and out of the US to bring it to zero. Half of the people currently in the country illegally came here legally- on a work permit, to attend school, vacation, and did not leave when their visas ran out.

[Swordsmyth]

You would have to stop all travel into and out of the US to bring it to zero. Half of the people currently in the country illegally came here legally- on a work permit, to attend school, vacation, and did not leave when their visas ran out.
Who said it had to be brought to zero?

That old trick won't work.

[Zippyjuan]

Who said it had to be brought to zero?

That old trick won't work.

So you don't favor stopping all illegal immigration. Are you for open borders?

[Swordsmyth]

So you don't favor stopping all illegal immigration. Are you for open borders?
More stupid tricks.

The borders are nearly wide open and millions of invaders are already here while millions more are on the way, YOU want to keep it that way, I want reasonable measures to stop as much as possible.

[Swordsmyth]

According to a June 4 report in El Financiero, military police officers in Chiapas state in southern Mexico have set up 12 new checkpoints in conjunction with other federal, state and local security forces. Eight of these roadblocks are on along about 150 kilometers (about 93 miles) of highway between the Suchiate crossing at Mexico's border with Guatemala and the town of Mapastepec.

The security reinforcements come along one of the main routes traversed by migrants traveling into Mexico from Guatemala.

More at: https://worldview.stratfor.com/situation-report/mexico-military-reportedly-adds-checkpoints-along-chiapas-migrant-route

[RestorationOfLiberty]

So you don't favor stopping all illegal immigration. Are you for open borders?

"If you do not favor stopping all child rape, you are pro child rape", that is what you are trying to say. You look stupider every day.

[Zippyjuan]

"If you do not favor stopping all child rape, you are pro child rape", that is what you are trying to say. You look stupider every day.

"If you are against Trump's wall you are for open borders!" is just as silly.

[PierzStyx]

Good heavens almighty. As if Trump couldn't get more disappointing.

This is going to have a nasty impact on auto prices and auto-parts costs.

Will probably hit some electrical machinery too.

Just what we need, right now, an even bigger squeeze on the middle class while making the working poor in Mexico even more poor.

The most disturbing thing, throughout all of this, is this demonstrates how fragile free trade is, and how quickly it can go south.

Mercantalism really never died; it just hid for a while.

And you have morons on here praising him knocking their knee caps off as if it were a gift. The Cult has to praise the Dear Leader.

[donnay]

Only when the US is the most undesirable place in the world to live. Should that be a goal?

We know that is their goal. Make the US into a 3rd world shit-hole.

[PierzStyx]

More stupid tricks.

The borders are nearly wide open and millions of invaders are already here while millions more are on the way, YOU want to keep it that way, I want reasonable measures to stop as much as possible.

I know illegal immigrants who speak English better than you. For example, they know the definition of "invade," which you apparently do not.

Then again, maybe idiocy isn't the problem. You being a troll whose job is the purposeful spread of propaganda, your destruction of the language is probably purposeful.

https://kwize.com/pics/George-Orwell-quote-about-words-from-1984-1a8368.jpg

https://www.activistpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/doublespeak_by_thebase9wario-d5qpzid.jpg

[PierzStyx]

We know that is their goal. Make the US into a 3rd world $#@!-hole.

Yes because the "Elites" make so much more money when the nation is completely impoverished and in a constant state of civil war. /s

Talk about incoherent idiocy.

[Swordsmyth]

I know illegal immigrants who speak English better than you. For example, they know the definition of "invade," which you apparently do not.

Then again, maybe idiocy isn't the problem. You being a troll whose job is the purposeful spread of propaganda, your destruction of the language is probably purposeful.

https://kwize.com/pics/George-Orwell-quote-about-words-from-1984-1a8368.jpg

https://www.activistpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/doublespeak_by_thebase9wario-d5qpzid.jpg
I am using invade perfectly correctly, your side is the one attempting to redefine it.

History is full of invasions conducted by simply moving in on the targeted victims and then imposing the invaders' rule.

[Swordsmyth]

Yes because the "Elites" make so much more money when the nation is completely impoverished and in a constant state of civil war. /s

Talk about incoherent idiocy.
They have more money than they know what to do with, this is about power.

And they plan on restoring peace and order once they have broken the liberty and independence of the American people.

But you know all of that already because you are part of it.

[RestorationOfLiberty]

"If you are against Trump's wall you are for open borders!" is just as silly.

Only, its not. Walls work to control borders, if you oppose what works, you can not claim to support secure borders, therefore by default support open borders.

Stop lying you nation wreaking mistake.

[donnay]

Yes because the "Elites" make so much more money when the nation is completely impoverished and in a constant state of civil war. /s

Talk about incoherent idiocy.

Isn't it your position to have open borders? What would define your thinking from the "elite" thinking?

[RestorationOfLiberty]

Yes because the "Elites" make so much more money when the nation is completely impoverished and in a constant state of civil war. /s

Talk about incoherent idiocy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl0Bo4GKQ-U

You really do assume its all about money rather then what money buys which is power

[RestorationOfLiberty]

Isn't it your position to have open borders? What would define your thinking from the "elite" thinking?


Nothing, because he is a useful idiot. He just refuse to accept that no all people are the same, that the blank slate is a lie, that genes determine in large part a person ability, that it determines culture, and that culture determines politics, and that elections have consequences.

He really does think that some how we can "get rid of welfare" (never explains how, it will "just happen"....somehow) and this will some how bring about a utopia, that some how people will rise above their biology, that water will turn to wine, and the lion will infact lay down with the lamb...

That if in fact he is outnumbered, he will just repeat the same augments enough and that some how the invaders will "see the light", that they will some how "just get it", never mind all the data that proves this to be the case...

To him, if America dies its not because we refused to defend it or people like him stabbing it n the back, it is "our fault" for not "doing a better job" at "spreading our message", never mind that some messages are not meant for other people, cultures, etc...But hey "at least GDP increased by 0.005% this quarter".

[RestorationOfLiberty]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/04/politics/republican-opposition-mexico-tariffs/

Primary them all.

[Swordsmyth]

Nothing, because he is a useful idiot. He just refuse to accept that no all people are the same, that the blank slate is a lie, that genes determine in large part a person ability, that it determines culture, and that culture determines politics, and that elections have consequences.

He really does think that some how we can "get rid of welfare" (never explains how, it will "just happen"....somehow) and this will some how bring about a utopia, that some how people will rise above their biology, that water will turn to wine, and the lion will infact lay down with the lamb...

That if in fact he is outnumbered, he will just repeat the same augments enough and that some how the invaders will "see the light", that they will some how "just get it", never mind all the data that proves this to be the case...

To him, if America dies its not because we refused to defend it or people like him stabbing it n the back, it is "our fault" for not "doing a better job" at "spreading our message", never mind that some messages are not meant for other people, cultures, etc...But hey "at least GDP increased by 0.005% this quarter".
I no longer believe Pierz is a fool, he is an enemy in disguise.

Never attribute to stupidity that which is better explained by malice.

[RestorationOfLiberty]

I no longer believe Pierz is a fool, he is an enemy in disguise.

Never attribute to stupidity that which is better explained by malice.

You are right.

[Swordsmyth]

Mexico showed yet another act of good faith on Thursday - freezing the bank accounts of 26 alleged human traffickers.
The ministry's Financial Intelligence Unit (FIU) said in a statement it froze the accounts due to "probable links with human trafficking and illegal aid to migrant caravans."
The FIU added that it would present the cases to the Attorney General's office. -Reuters
Negotiators from both countries are discussing a new framework that would "dramatically increase Mexico's immigration enforcement efforts" according to the Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/trump-reports-headway-in-us-mexico-talks-on-migrants-but-renews-tariff-threat/2019/06/06/bb0801e4-8860-11e9-98c1-e945ae5db8fb_story.html).
Mexican officials have pledged to deploy 6,000 National Guard troops to the country's southern border with Guatemala. We wonder - will Congressional Democrats pounce on Mexico for this decision like they did when President Trump did it?



The Mexican official and the U.S. official said the countries are negotiating a sweeping plan to overhaul asylum rules across the region, a move that would require Central Americans to seek refuge in the first foreign country they set foot upon after fleeing their homeland.
Under such a plan, the United States would swiftly deport Guatemalan asylum seekers who set foot on U.S. soil to Mexico. And the United States would send Honduran and Salvadoran asylum applicants to Guatemala, whose government held talks with acting Homeland Security Secretary Kevin McAleenan last week. -Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/trump-reports-headway-in-us-mexico-talks-on-migrants-but-renews-tariff-threat/2019/06/06/bb0801e4-8860-11e9-98c1-e945ae5db8fb_story.html)
In addition to the deployment of the National Guard, Mexico has promised to build more migrant detention centers and checkpoints to catch and deter northbound Central Americans.

More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-06/armed-mexican-troops-block-migrants-southern-border-after-tariff-talks-tank

[Zippyjuan]

Only, its not. Walls work to control borders, if you oppose what works, you can not claim to support secure borders, therefore by default support open borders.

Stop lying you nation wreaking mistake.

Ron Paul favors Open Borders!

[RestorationOfLiberty]

Ron Paul favors Open Borders!

Only he doesnt, it has been shown in this tread alone that he does not, and even if he did/does he is still very wrong.

Not sure where that would come off as a "killshot" expect the mind of a sperg or a open border/anti white leftist

[Zippyjuan]

Only he doesnt, it has been shown in this tread alone that he does not, and even if he did/does he is still very wrong.

Not sure where that would come off as a "killshot" expect the mind of a sperg or a open border/anti white leftist

But according to you, anybody who is against Trump's wall is for open borders.


Walls work to control borders, if you oppose what works, you can not claim to support secure borders, therefore by default support open borders.

Ron opposes Trump's wall- therefore, according to you, he must be for open borders. Unless you were lying again.

https://moneyandmarkets.com/paul-dont-need-border-wall-illegal-immigration/


Ron Paul: We Don’t Need a Border Wall to Stop Illegal Immigration


Three-time presidential candidate and Texas Libertarian Ron Paul said Tuesday on CNBC that we don’t need a border wall to stop illegal immigration along the southern border, and should instead focus efforts on removing incentives for coming to the U.S. illegally.


More at link.

[RestorationOfLiberty]

But according to you, anybody who is against Trump's wall is for open borders.



Ron opposes Trump's wall- therefore, according to you, he must be for open borders. Unless you were lying again.

https://moneyandmarkets.com/paul-dont-need-border-wall-illegal-immigration/



More at link.

No, anyone who is against border walls is for open borders borders by default, stop lying you nation wreaker.

And yet he voted FOR building a wall. Go be a shill somewhere else, I hear Mexico is an Ancap paradise.

[invisible]

he is still very wrong.

No, anyone who is against border walls is for open borders borders by default

More direct opposition to Ron Paul from the shylls, right here on RPF, fully sanctioned by the site owners and mods.

[PAF]

More direct opposition to Ron Paul from the shylls, right here on RPF, fully sanctioned by the site owners and mods.

That about sums it up.

Like Private Property and Contract Rights, they read the Site Mission, but fully ignore it.

[nikcers]

More direct opposition to Ron Paul from the shylls, right here on RPF, fully sanctioned by the site owners and mods.

Have you tried to report them? I think its good to engage people but not when they are obviously nihilists

[Zippyjuan]

No, anyone who is against border walls is for open borders borders by default, stop lying you nation wreaker.

And yet he voted FOR building a wall. Go be a shill somewhere else, I hear Mexico is an Ancap paradise.

Ron Paul is against the wall, therefore he is for open borders.

Yes, Ron did vote for a bill which funded a wall but he said he was against that part of the bill- that he voted for it due to its anti-amnesty provisions.

[invisible]

I know illegal immigrants who speak English better than you. For example, they know the definition of "invade," which you apparently do not.

Then again, maybe idiocy isn't the problem. You being a troll whose job is the purposeful spread of propaganda, your destruction of the language is probably purposeful.

Of course it's deliberate. That's exactly what propagandists do, is to present everything in the terms designed to evoke a strong and specific emotional reaction. And do it for over 36 posts per day, or over 41,000 posts in 3 years, far more than even the most prolific genuine Ron Paul supporters who have been here for over a decade. Despite how totally obvious this propagandist is, this is fully sanctioned by the site owner and mods.

[Ender]

No, anyone who is against border walls is for open borders borders by default, stop lying you nation wreaker.

And yet he voted FOR building a wall. Go be a shill somewhere else, I hear Mexico is an Ancap paradise.

LOL- there are 3 US million ex-pats in Mexico right now, loving it.

Also Mexico divorce rates are much lower than the US while their Christian percentage is higher- but we can't have that "invading" our country, now can we?

And Ron Paul is totally against a wall- get rid of entitlements, have an easy process to cross the border, & a reasonable path to citizenship is his stance- and he is correct.

[nikcers]

LOL- there are 3 US million ex-pats in Mexico right now, loving it.

Also Mexico divorce rates are much lower than the US while their Christian percentage is higher- but we can't have that "invading" our country, now can we?

And Ron Paul is totally against a wall- get rid of entitlements, have an easy process to cross the border, & a reasonable path to citizenship is his stance- and he is correct.

Their divorce rates are only lower because up until 10 years ago it was hard to get a divorce in Mexico, the women had no say in the matter. They passed a law that says men can be jailed if they treat their wife badly, you can guess why that is a law, and they made it easier to get a divorce and guess what divorces are going up. So if you want to do the same in America, just put up a bunch of legal hurdles for women not to be able to get a divorce and create a law that says men can treat their wife like property.

[Ender]

Their divorce rates are only lower because up until 10 years ago it was hard to get a divorce in Mexico, the women had no say in the matter. They passed a law that says men can be jailed if they treat their wife badly, you can guess why that is a law, and they made it easier to get a divorce and guess what divorces are going up. So if you want to do the same in America, just put up a bunch of legal hurdles for women not to be able to get a divorce and create a law that says men can treat their wife like property.

Riiiight.

I have friends in Mexico that LOVE it, so believe what you want.

BTW the divorce ratings were from last year.

[nikcers]

Riiiight.

I have friends in Mexico that LOVE it, so believe what you want.

BTW the divorce ratings were from last year.

Look at the trend since they changed the law. Why do you think they changed the law? People were complaining it was taking years and they were being psychologically abused by their husband during the process and coerced into staying with them.

[Ender]

Look at the trend since they changed the law. Why do you think they changed the law? People were complaining it was taking years and they were being psychologically abused by their husband during the process and coerced into staying with them.

The US is in the top 10 of divorce rates in the world; Mexico is in the bottom 10.
https://www.unifiedlawyers.com.au/blog/global-divorce-rates-statistics/

[RestorationOfLiberty]

More direct opposition to Ron Paul from the shylls, right here on RPF, fully sanctioned by the site owners and mods.

So you follow Ron Paul when he is wrong, but call others shills/fools?

[RestorationOfLiberty]

Ron Paul is against the wall, therefore he is for open borders.

Yes, Ron did vote for a bill which funded a wall but he said he was against that part of the bill- that he voted for it due to its anti-amnesty provisions.

And yet his actions helped bring about the wall, (until they cut funding fr it because we have a uni-party hostile to Americas)


LOL- there are 3 US million ex-pats in Mexico right now, loving it.

Also Mexico divorce rates are much lower than the US while their Christian percentage is higher- but we can't have that "invading" our country, now can we?

And Ron Paul is totally against a wall- get rid of entitlements, have an easy process to cross the border, & a reasonable path to citizenship is his stance- and he is correct.

No, we cant, because they are not us, not of our people, hostile to our culture, and vote to recreate the same marxist hellscape they came from.

"Oh just great rid of welfare".....Ok, how? How are you going to get enough people to vote for it? How are you going to prevent people from voting o rebuild the welfare state?

Why should give the means for people who are going to vote against us to vote against us?



If they value freedom so much why is it Mexico/Latin America largely a marxist shithole? Please do answer

[nikcers]

The US is in the top 10 of divorce rates in the world; Mexico is in the bottom 10.
https://www.unifiedlawyers.com.au/blog/global-divorce-rates-statistics/

It's trending upward after they made it easier to divorce. Here is the very first google result, I am not cherry picking.


Feb 14, 2019 · 3 out of 10 marriages in Mexico end in divorce ... In recent years, Mexicans seem to have lost faith in marriage. ..


representing a 48.3% increase in just five years.
Whoa i wonder what changed


https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/22/world/americas/22divorce.html
express no fault divorce enacted into law


but wait there is more, they can put men in jail for not treating their wife right, I dunno why that would have to be a law.

Men who phone their wives every half hour to check up on them, constantly suspect them of infidelity or try to control the way they dress are committing the crime of jealousy, special prosecutor Alicia Elena Perez Duarte told Excelsior newspaper.

Those who stop talking to their wives, avoid sex or try to convince suspicious spouses they are “crazy” even if they are caught red-handed having an affair, are guilty of indifference, she said.

Men found guilty of jealousy or indifference could face up to five years in prison (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-husbands/jealous-husbands-may-face-trial-in-court-idUSN2328855120070226)

[Sammy]

More direct opposition to Ron Paul from the shylls, right here on RPF, fully sanctioned by the site owners and mods.

I agree with Ron Paul on 98%...I support a wall, Ron Paul opposes the wall...That's okay...

[nikcers]

I agree with Ron Paul on 98%...I support a wall, Ron Paul opposes the wall...That's okay...

Yeah I just hope Ron Paul isn't right and the wall is designed to keep us in. Ron Paul has been right before when everyone else said he is wrong.

[PAF]

I agree with Ron Paul on 98%...I support a wall, Ron Paul opposes the wall...That's okay...

No, it is actually not ok. You are, however, entitled to your opinion.

It is not ok, because a wall violates liberty and freedom and is not fiscally responsible. It creates a need for enforcement, thus more government employees, restricts ones right to travel freely, and creates a falsehood that all free men must register (document) with governments.

The only solution is to end incentives. Whether that happens, or never, it does not negate the negative ramifications of a full blown police state, which a Wall will in fact do.

If people come here with no incentives/welfare, they will simply be required to work in order to survive, else they will not come here, or have to move elsewhere.

[Swordsmyth]

More direct opposition to Ron Paul from the shylls, right here on RPF, fully sanctioned by the site owners and mods.
Many people here disagree with Ron on much more fundamental points.
If only people who agreed with Ron on 100% of everything were allowed here only Ron would be allowed here.

[Swordsmyth]

Yeah I just hope Ron Paul isn't right and the wall is designed to keep us in. Ron Paul has been right before when everyone else said he is wrong.
There won't be any better place to run.
If the wall is designed to keep us in then they will find that it traps them here with us.

[Swordsmyth]

No, it is actually not ok. You are, however, entitled to your opinion.

It is not ok, because a wall violates liberty and freedom and is not fiscally responsible. It creates a need for enforcement, thus more government employees, restricts ones right to travel freely, and creates a falsehood that all free men must register (document) with governments.

The only solution is to end incentives. Whether that happens, or never, it does not negate the negative ramifications of a full blown police state, which a Wall will in fact do.

If people come here with no incentives/welfare, they will simply be required to work in order to survive, else they will not come here, or have to move elsewhere.
A wall will not create a police state and people came here when we didn't have government incentives and voted for them, that will happen again without immigration limits and secured borders.

[Swordsmyth]

LOL- there are 3 US million ex-pats in Mexico right now, loving it.
A bunch of leftists for the most part.


Also Mexico divorce rates are much lower than the US while their Christian percentage is higher- but we can't have that "invading" our country, now can we?
That's not the problem, the communism is.


And Ron Paul is totally against a wall- get rid of entitlements, have an easy process to cross the border, & a reasonable path to citizenship is his stance- and he is correct.
No, he is wrong, that will turn us into a communist country with ever bigger entitlements.

[Dr.3D]

Many people here disagree with Ron on much more fundamental points.
If only people who agreed with Ron on 100% of everything were allowed here only Ron would be allowed here.
Oh come on, you have to agree with Ron, 100% in order to be a member here.

That or not post much in these forums.

And people wonder why some folks never post.


Oh and don't forget to be a libertarian.... if you are not pure enough to be called a libertarian, you probably don't belong here either. :sarcasm:

Even Jesus was eating with sinners and tax collectors. Who in these forums can claim to be perfect?
Those who need help with their political outlook should be free to come here and learn. Those who are healthy in their political outlook don't even need to come here.

[PAF]

A wall will not create a police state and people came here when we didn't have government incentives and voted for them, that will happen again without immigration limits and secured borders.


Right on queue. But not right on.

[specsaregood]

Well, Trump says the Tariffs are off; because he got what he wanted from mexico.

1137155056044826626
1137155057667989511

[Swordsmyth]

Well, Trump says the Tariffs are off; because he got what he wanted from mexico.

1137155056044826626
1137155057667989511
U.S. President Donald Trump announced on Twitter on June 7 that Mexico and the United States have reached an agreement over immigration-related issues. As a result, the 5 percent tariffs on imports from Mexico that Trump had planned for June 10 have been indefinitely delayed. The State Department later released details of the agreement. Among other things, Mexico agreed to deploy its national guard throughout the country with a focus on its southern border, and to change certain migration protocols to allow the United States to send asylum seekers to Mexico until their case is heard.

For now, Mexico has avoided the imposition of tariffs by Trump that could have pushed the country into recession. But the threat looms large over Mexico, and it could return if there is still not a reduction in the number of migrants flowing to the United States.

More at: https://worldview.stratfor.com/situation-report/us-mexico-trump-announces-deal-mexico-suspends-tariff-threat

[RestorationOfLiberty]

Yeah I just hope Ron Paul isn't right and the wall is designed to keep us in. Ron Paul has been right before when everyone else said he is wrong.

If they are, we are still armed. And then We are not locked in here with them, they are locked in here with US...

[RestorationOfLiberty]

No, it is actually not ok. You are, however, entitled to your opinion.

It is not ok, because a wall violates liberty and freedom and is not fiscally responsible. It creates a need for enforcement, thus more government employees, restricts ones right to travel freely, and creates a falsehood that all free men must register (document) with governments.

The only solution is to end incentives. Whether that happens, or never, it does not negate the negative ramifications of a full blown police state, which a Wall will in fact do.

If people come here with no incentives/welfare, they will simply be required to work in order to survive, else they will not come here, or have to move elsewhere.

Walls violate no ones Liberty or Freedom because No one has the right to invade or immigrant a nation, but nothing and no "freedom of movement has never, does not, and will NEVER exist.

Illegal immigration costs this nation at least 150-300 Billion a year vs a one time cost of a wall of 10-20 Billion, its still cheaper to build the wall, never mind the cultural/political impact of millions of leftist, anti white, anti American voters ruining America.

"Just end incentives"...How? How can you do that when such candidates will NEVER be able to be elected because so many welfare voters have been imported? Please share with us. You will not because you have no answer because they will NOT be.



A wall will not create a police state and people came here when we didn't have government incentives and voted for them, that will happen again without immigration limits and secured borders.


"But wait, this one point in time, things were different....Therefore...Muh feelz".

[PierzStyx]

If they are, we are still armed. And then We are not locked in here with them, they are locked in here with US...

Now, class, where have we heard, "Lets murder everyone not of the state-approved nationality!" before?

https://cdn.britannica.com/s:700x450/59/129959-004-1CAB8E13.jpg


http://www.telos.tv/telos17/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Mussolini-1024x576.jpg


Wow, such attentive students!



I love when you idiots out yourselves.

[RestorationOfLiberty]

Now, class, where have we heard, "Lets murder everyone not of the state-approved nationality!" before?

https://cdn.britannica.com/s:700x450/59/129959-004-1CAB8E13.jpg


http://www.telos.tv/telos17/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Mussolini-1024x576.jpg


Wow, such attentive students!



I love when you idiots out yourselves.

...Maybe you should read, THINK, THEN post..OK? I am saying if they want to create a prison state, we are still armed and will fight back, but hey keep using leftist talking points, screaming "Nazi", "racist", "insert 3rd buzzword here" at anyone you do not like, who say things you can not refute...

[RestorationOfLiberty]

Can't even bother to deny your a Republican paid troll. Stupid shills.

Nationalist blogger/poster. Not paid for this, keep lying liar, its what you do best.

Still waiting to see how allowing in hordes of leftist voters will not result in anything buy more leftists in power., show your work?

[PierzStyx]

Walls violate no ones Liberty or Freedom because No one has the right to invade or immigrant a nation, but nothing and no "freedom of movement has never, does not, and will NEVER exist.

Then prepare to never leave your house again.

Oh, what am I saying.

Prepare to never leave your mommy's basement again.

Illegal immigration costs this nation at least 150-300 Billion a year vs a one time cost of a wall of 10-20 Billion, its still cheaper to build the wall, never mind the cultural/political impact of millions of leftist, anti white, anti American voters ruining America.

There is no such thing as illegal immigration. You cannot make a natural right illegal. And only a despot would try to do so.

"Just end incentives"...How? How can you do that when such candidates will NEVER be able to be elected because so many welfare voters have been imported? Please share with us. You will not because you have no answer because they will NOT be.

Of course not. I mean, as long as welfare whores like yourselves keep voting for bigger welfare whores nothing will change.



"But wait, this one point in time, things were different....Therefore...Muh feelz".

Actually that time never existed. Just listen to what the Progressive Theodore Roosevelt, the founder of the first American Progressive Party said about race:


A perfectly stupid race can never rise to a very high plane; the negro, for instance, has been kept down as much by lack of intellectual development as by anything else; but the prime factor in the preservation of a race is its power to attain a high degree of social efficiency. Love of order, ability to fight well and breed well, capacity to subordinate the interests of the individual to the interests of the community, these and similar rather humdrum qualities go to make up the sum of social efficiency. The race that has them is sure to overturn the race whose members have brilliant intellects, but who are cold and selfish and timid, who do not breed well or fight well, and who are not capable of disinterested love of the community. In other words, character is far more important than intellect to the race as to the individual. We need intellect, and there is no reason why we should not have it together with character; but if we must choose between the two we choose character without a moment's hesitation.

Now, who does that sound like? Early Progressives were obsessed with racial inferiority of all but the "Nordic" races. https://www.jstor.org/stable/41939809?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

Progressivism began as a way to erect a massive state to prevent immigration and to suppress black and women workers, not promote them. And it continues to do so today under the guise of the Republican Party.

[PierzStyx]

Nationalist blogger/poster. Not paid for this, keep lying liar, its what you do best.

Still waiting to see how allowing in hordes of leftist voters will not result in anything buy more leftists in power., show your work?

If you're a Nationalist then you already are a member of the Leftist Horde in power working to destroy the liberty of the individual.

Hey, do you know what you call an unpaid troll?

An idiot.

At least SS gets paid for his lies.

[tfurrh]

U.S. President Donald Trump announced on Twitter on June 7 that Mexico and the United States have reached an agreement over immigration-related issues. As a result, the 5 percent tariffs on imports from Mexico that Trump had planned for June 10 have been indefinitely delayed. The State Department later released details of the agreement. Among other things, Mexico agreed to deploy its national guard throughout the country with a focus on its southern border, and to change certain migration protocols to allow the United States to send asylum seekers to Mexico until their case is heard.

For now, Mexico has avoided the imposition of tariffs by Trump that could have pushed the country into recession. But the threat looms large over Mexico, and it could return if there is still not a reduction in the number of migrants flowing to the United States.

More at: https://worldview.stratfor.com/situation-report/us-mexico-trump-announces-deal-mexico-suspends-tariff-threat

I'm glad the emergency has passed.

[PierzStyx]

If they are, we are still armed. And then We are not locked in here with them, they are locked in here with US...


Nationalist blogger/poster.


...Maybe you should read, THINK, THEN post..OK? I am saying if they want to create a prison state, we are still armed and will fight back, but hey keep using leftist talking points, screaming "Nazi", "racist", "insert 3rd buzzword here" at anyone you do not like, who say things you can not refute...

Oh, I don't have to refute that you're a self-proclaimed Nationalist who wants to used armed violence to murder nationalities you see as being unapproved by the centralized state. You've admitted as much yourself, as shown above. Therefore, I don't have to call you a Fascist or a Nazi. You've outed yourself as one.

You're just another violent, Leftist bootlicker living in mommy's basement blaming the "inferior" races for the fact that he has never accomplished anything in his life begging the Nanny State to save him from his own mediocrity.

[Swordsmyth]

Then prepare to never leave your house again.

Oh, what am I saying.

Prepare to never leave your mommy's basement again.

Sorry but I have a right to freedom of movement in this country because I was born here, nobody has a right to enter any country without the permission of the citizens.


There is no such thing as illegal immigration. You cannot make a natural right illegal. And only a despot would try to do so.

Immigration is not a natural right, people have a natural right to defend their rights by establishing political control of territory and deciding who may join them in it.


Of course not. I mean, as long as welfare whores like yourselves keep voting for bigger welfare whores nothing will change.

You and your invader buddies are the welfare voters.


Actually that time never existed. Just listen to what the Progressive Theodore Roosevelt, the founder of the first American Progressive Party said about race:


A perfectly stupid race can never rise to a very high plane; the negro, for instance, has been kept down as much by lack of intellectual development as by anything else; but the prime factor in the preservation of a race is its power to attain a high degree of social efficiency. Love of order, ability to fight well and breed well, capacity to subordinate the interests of the individual to the interests of the community, these and similar rather humdrum qualities go to make up the sum of social efficiency. The race that has them is sure to overturn the race whose members have brilliant intellects, but who are cold and selfish and timid, who do not breed well or fight well, and who are not capable of disinterested love of the community. In other words, character is far more important than intellect to the race as to the individual. We need intellect, and there is no reason why we should not have it together with character; but if we must choose between the two we choose character without a moment's hesitation.
Now, who does that sound like? Early Progressives were obsessed with racial inferiority of all but the "Nordic" races. https://www.jstor.org/stable/41939809?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents



Progressivism began as a way to erect a massive state to prevent immigration and to suppress black and women workers, not promote them. And it continues to do so today under the guise of the Republican Party.
LOL

Blacks, women and immigrants are the backbone of the Progressive voter base and Progressivism's goal is to create a massive welfare state that makes everyone inferior and dependent on the government and the ruling class.

Importing millions of welfare voters is playing right into their hands but that is your goal.

You expose yourself every time you scream "NAZI" and babble about Republicans "suppressing blacks and women".

[Swordsmyth]

If you're a Nationalist then you already are a member of the Leftist Horde in power working to destroy the liberty of the individual.
That describes globalists like you much better than nationalists.

[Anti Federalist]

Now, class, where have we heard, "Lets murder everyone not of the state-approved nationality!" before?

Wow, such attentive students!

I love when you idiots out yourselves.

Defending your home from invasion is not murder nor is it Nazism.

In fact it is your duty as a free citizen.

Liberty means being responsible for your situation.

[specsaregood]

Nationalist blogger/poster. Not paid for this, keep lying liar, its what you do best.

Still waiting to see how allowing in hordes of leftist voters will not result in anything buy more leftists in power., show your work?

I don't know why you people keep arguing with these others as if they want the same things. The open border anarchists want the US destroyed, it's the whole.point of their ideology. They know that importing leftists will only make that happen faster. Unless you also want the govt to collapse , there is no point in arguing with them on.ways to keep that from happening.

[nikcers]

Go build you own forum....Isnt that what you people always say?

I remember when the admins used to ban people who make Ron Paul look bad by constantly posting that he is wrong, tell regulars on RPF to leave the forums and make their own forums, advocate for racist policies like eugenics

[nikcers]

I don't know why you people keep arguing with these others as if they want the same things. The open border anarchists want the US destroyed, it's the whole.point of their ideology. They know that importing leftists will only make that happen faster. Unless you also want the govt to collapse , there is no point in arguing with them on.ways to keep that from happening.
If Rand Paul is an open borders anarchist because if we are going to build a wall we should actually fund it, not have another "war on" boondoggle than I stand with Rand.

[nikcers]

If they are, we are still armed. And then We are not locked in here with them, they are locked in here with US...

How well did that work for the anti government people in Iraq? They were armed by our own military and they got their asses handed to them by Russias military. I would hate to go up against our own military, they would destroy us. We don't have a well regulated militia, but if they are going to build a wall are you going to build a militia?

[specsaregood]

If Rand Paul is an open borders anarchist because if we are going to build a wall we should actually fund it, not have another "war on" boondoggle than I stand with Rand.

Uhm ok, but rand Paul is not an open borders anarchist, so there is that. Hell, those people regularly shit on Randal.

[nikcers]

Uhm ok, but rand Paul is not an open borders anarchist, so there is that. Hell, those people regularly $#@! on Randal.

Rand Paul has already called this for what it is, a boondoggle, they aren't funding this because the congress hates the president. They are going to make sure it doesn't happen the same way they ignored his order to get rid of Brennans security clearance. National emergency be damned they will sabotage this because our congress is corrupt. We will not fix this problem at the border unless we get rid of all the congress except people like Rand who would actually fund it right.

[Swordsmyth]

How well did that work for the anti government people in Iraq? They were armed by our own military and they got their asses handed to them by Russias military. I would hate to go up against our own military, they would destroy us. We don't have a well regulated militia, but if they are going to build a wall are you going to build a militia?
I think you mean Syria and much of our military would side with us.

[nikcers]

I think you mean Syria and much of our military would side with us.

Our only saving grace would be the veterans, but they wouldn't be armed as well as the military, and the military would label us "anarchists" or "terrorists" in any event and wouldn't hesitate to shut down any sort of attack on our country which they would sell it to them as. They wouldn't think they were attacking their own citizens, they would think they are defending the country from extremists.

[nikcers]

This is why a lot of the old school Ron Paul people I knew bought guns and gold. They said if the fed ever failed they would come for the gold, they have done it before and they would do it again.

[Swordsmyth]

U.S. President Donald Trump announced on Twitter on June 7 that Mexico and the United States have reached an agreement over immigration-related issues. As a result, the 5 percent tariffs on imports from Mexico that Trump had planned for June 10 have been indefinitely delayed. The State Department later released details of the agreement. Among other things, Mexico agreed to deploy its national guard throughout the country with a focus on its southern border, and to change certain migration protocols to allow the United States to send asylum seekers to Mexico until their case is heard.

For now, Mexico has avoided the imposition of tariffs by Trump that could have pushed the country into recession. But the threat looms large over Mexico, and it could return if there is still not a reduction in the number of migrants flowing to the United States.

More at: https://worldview.stratfor.com/situation-report/us-mexico-trump-announces-deal-mexico-suspends-tariff-threat

The U.S. will work to greatly expand a program that returns asylum-seekers who cross the southern border to Mexico while their claims are adjudicated.

It's part of an agreement reached Friday to put off tariffs ordered by President Donald Trump.
The State Department says Mexico will take "unprecedented steps" to "curb irregular migration," including deploying its National Guard along its southern border.

The U.S. says Mexico "is also taking decisive action to dismantle human smuggling and trafficking organizations."
Trump tweeted Friday night that he would hold off on a 5% tariff on all Mexican imports set to take effect Monday.
The State Department says the two nations will continue their discussion to curb illegal migration to the U.S.

More at: https://news.yahoo.com/latest-trump-suspends-proposed-tariffs-004404168.html?.tsrc=jtc_news_index

[Swordsmyth]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Swordsmyth http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=6809672#post6809672)

U.S. President Donald Trump announced on Twitter on June 7 that Mexico and the United States have reached an agreement over immigration-related issues. As a result, the 5 percent tariffs on imports from Mexico that Trump had planned for June 10 have been indefinitely delayed. The State Department later released details of the agreement. Among other things, Mexico agreed to deploy its national guard throughout the country with a focus on its southern border, and to change certain migration protocols to allow the United States to send asylum seekers to Mexico until their case is heard.

For now, Mexico has avoided the imposition of tariffs by Trump that could have pushed the country into recession. But the threat looms large over Mexico, and it could return if there is still not a reduction in the number of migrants flowing to the United States.

More at: https://worldview.stratfor.com/situa...-tariff-threat (https://worldview.stratfor.com/situation-report/us-mexico-trump-announces-deal-mexico-suspends-tariff-threat)




The U.S. will work to greatly expand a program that returns asylum-seekers who cross the southern border to Mexico while their claims are adjudicated.

It's part of an agreement reached Friday to put off tariffs ordered by President Donald Trump.
The State Department says Mexico will take "unprecedented steps" to "curb irregular migration," including deploying its National Guard along its southern border.

The U.S. says Mexico "is also taking decisive action to dismantle human smuggling and trafficking organizations."
Trump tweeted Friday night that he would hold off on a 5% tariff on all Mexican imports set to take effect Monday.
The State Department says the two nations will continue their discussion to curb illegal migration to the U.S.

More at: https://news.yahoo.com/latest-trump-suspends-proposed-tariffs-004404168.html?.tsrc=jtc_news_index

The plan under consideration would also require that migrants seek refuge in the first country they arrive in after leaving home, according to the Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/trump-reports-headway-in-us-mexico-talks-on-migrants-but-renews-tariff-threat/2019/06/06/bb0801e4-8860-11e9-98c1-e945ae5db8fb_story.html?utm_term=.5c765adb8c32). Guatemalan migrants, under the plan, would be required to seek refuge in Mexico while Salvadorans and Venezuelans would be required to remain in Guatemala.
Any migrant that does make it to the U.S. border would be deported to the closest country of refuge.

The Trump administration also plans to tighten asylum rules to raise the standard for “credible fear,” which determines whether a migrant can remain in the U.S. while their claim is being adjudicated.

More at: https://news.yahoo.com/mexico-offers-deploy-6-000-123734560.html?.tsrc=jtc_news_index

[eleganz]

I don't know why you people keep arguing with these others as if they want the same things. The open border anarchists want the US destroyed, it's the whole.point of their ideology. They know that importing leftists will only make that happen faster. Unless you also want the govt to collapse , there is no point in arguing with them on.ways to keep that from happening.

Then why do they still btch about budgets and debt? Just to btch I suppose.

Also to the open border anarchists, don't forget you cant have open borders AND a welfare state.

We all know this welfare state is not minimizing anytime soon so let's just cut the B.S. about open borders already. We all get the principles now stop crying. No wonder everybody thinks us libertarians are crazy, we just don't let up. To mainstream people, even a soft libertarian looks nuts.

[nikcers]

Then why do they still btch about budgets and debt? Just to btch I suppose.

Also to the open border anarchists, don't forget you cant have open borders AND a welfare state.

We all know this welfare state is not minimizing anytime soon so let's just cut the B.S. about open borders already. We all get the principles now stop crying. No wonder everybody thinks us libertarians are crazy, we just don't let up. To mainstream people, even a soft libertarian looks nuts.

You can't get rid of the open borders or welfare state unless you go after the congress who are letting them in. The congress don't give a fuck about us. The congress don't give a fuck about us. The congress don't give a fuck about us. The congress don't give a fuck about us..

[Fox McCloud]

And you have morons on here praising him knocking their knee caps off as if it were a gift. The Cult has to praise the Dear Leader.

It truly is disappointing how far some members have strayed from the libertarian ideals espoused by Ron that were coursing through this forum 10 years ago.

In other news, I'm glad Trump decided to stop this idiocy: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/progress-mexico-tariff-talks-still-long-way-go-officials-say-n1015076

I wonder how much of this, though, was because of a "deal" reached with Mexico so much as political theatre because he didn't have the votes to actually get away with these kind of tariffs on Mexico.

If there was actually a deal, this doesn't bode well for the future of international politics; it quite aptly demonstrates to the world that "if you're big and strong and act like a bully, you can get your way to varying degrees".

I can level plenty of criticism against the international community, but preferring diplomatic solutions and not escalating things is something that is well appreciated---the US preferring more aggressive stances is not, at all, in line with the libertarian ideal of being friends with the world and not poking our nose in everyone's business.

[Ender]

Defending your home from invasion is not murder nor is it Nazism.

In fact it is your duty as a free citizen.

Liberty means being responsible for your situation.

True.

So when are we gonna take responsibility for the welfare state, bombing the shit out of the ME, creating coups all over Central & South America & taking their resources- not to mention creating the poor & needy- AND the invaders who everyone's so afraid of?

We are responsible for Big Gov so creating more Big Gov to save us ain't gonna work.

Real LIBERTY is the answer.

[Working Poor]

If there was actually a deal, this doesn't bode well for the future of international politics; it quite aptly demonstrates to the world that "if you're big and strong and act like a bully, you can get your way to varying degrees".

So that hasn't been going on already? Something Ron started trying to draw attention to for years was our bullying around the world.

I think something needs to be done about the people flooding the border. The CIA I mean the Mexican cartels have been controlling the flow of drugs and children across the border for many years. I guess because the Bush/Clinton/Cheney/Obama cartel are being handsomely paid off that makes it okay right?

I remember clearly Ron saying that he would use tariffs to offset income tax when he ran the last time. I guess that would not have been a problem for the purist here.

I don't think one of us here really knows what is going on. We can't believe any thing the news says even our own alt media sources probably is compromised IMO. I listen to most of Ron's reports and it seems to me like he is turning back on a few of his principals in some ways it is confusing to me because of things I hear him saying. He remains against wars and that gives me some hope that I am just processing all this stuff that he is saying about what Trump is doing. I think Clinton/Obama and Pelosi have been doing some dirty dealing with China that does rip off the people in the USA so I hope we can find out what that is about.

[nikcers]

True.

So when are we gonna take responsibility for the welfare state, bombing the $#@! out of the ME, creating coups all over Central & South America & taking their resources- not to mention creating the poor & needy- AND the invaders who everyone's so afraid of?

We are responsible for Big Gov so creating more Big Gov to save us ain't gonna work.

Real LIBERTY is the answer.

You are right about one thing, Big Gov is not going to fix something that they caused therefore they don't want to fix it because its too profitable for them and they don't work for me and you.

[Zippyjuan]

Is he still promising to close the border? Or did that threat also pass with no action?

Was this due to the poor jobs report and warnings that tariffs on Mexico would weaken the economy even further?

[timosman]

Is he still promising to close the border? Or did that threat also pass with no action?

Was this due to the poor jobs report and warnings that tariffs on Mexico would weaken the economy even further?

There are conflicting reports on this one. Some say it is because of Mexico's concessions on border enforcement. :tears:

[RestorationOfLiberty]

How well did that work for the anti government people in Iraq? They were armed by our own military and they got their asses handed to them by Russias military. I would hate to go up against our own military, they would destroy us. We don't have a well regulated militia, but if they are going to build a wall are you going to build a militia?

Worlds apart the armed forces of America, vs Russia, different tactics, different ROE, etc..

Yeah, its pointless, just give up before its even happen, great mindset.


Actually that time never existed. Just listen to what the Progressive Theodore Roosevelt, the founder of the first American Progressive Party said about race:



Now, who does that sound like? Early Progressives were obsessed with racial inferiority of all but the "Nordic" races. https://www.jstor.org/stable/41939809?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

Progressivism began as a way to erect a massive state to prevent immigration and to suppress black and women workers, not promote them. And it continues to do so today under the guise of the Republican Party.


No, they just understood that humans are subject to the laws of evolution and environment selection, the same as any other being in this world and their effects on culture and politics.

If you value freedom then you have to see it is not for everyone, nothing is, and if it has value it has to protect from those who would destroy it, and no freedom is not a muh feelz based suicide pact.





If you're a Nationalist then you already are a member of the Leftist Horde in power working to destroy the liberty of the individual.

Hey, do you know what you call an unpaid troll?

An idiot.

At least SS gets paid for his lies.

....No such thing as a leftist nationalist, as leftists are hostile to the nation state, its people, their culture and their right to preserve. You are just using words you dont know the meaning of and think you are smarter then you really are, your not.






Oh, I don't have to refute that you're a self-proclaimed Nationalist who wants to used armed violence to murder nationalities you see as being unapproved by the centralized state. You've admitted as much yourself, as shown above. Therefore, I don't have to call you a Fascist or a Nazi. You've outed yourself as one.

You're just another violent, Leftist bootlicker living in mommy's basement blaming the "inferior" races for the fact that he has never accomplished anything in his life begging the Nanny State to save him from his own mediocrity.

So in order words you have nothing to back up your lies, fitting.

The state has a rightful place and a list of obligation, namely the defense of the nation, if that requires the use of force against others so be it.

'Muh Facist!!!! Muh Nazi", yeah, just a leftist tactic from a leftist like you.


But hey, ignore the impact of 3rd world hordes voting away your rights, I am share your mental gymnastics will some how blame those working to prevent it.


Defending your home from invasion is not murder nor is it Nazism.

In fact it is your duty as a free citizen.

Liberty means being responsible for your situation.


But didnt you know, if you stop people who want to steal from or harm you from being able to steal from and harm you, some how that is an infringement on their "right" to steal from and harm from us, because "muh feelz"/S



I don't know why you people keep arguing with these others as if they want the same things. The open border anarchists want the US destroyed, it's the whole.point of their ideology. They know that importing leftists will only make that happen faster. Unless you also want the govt to collapse , there is no point in arguing with them on.ways to keep that from happening.





I remember when the admins used to ban people who make Ron Paul look bad by constantly posting that he is wrong, tell regulars on RPF to leave the forums and make their own forums, advocate for racist policies like eugenics


Thought you guys valued debate and freedom of speech?
If a person is wrong, they are wrong, does not matter their title,, rank, wealth, etc
Whats wrong,"muh free market" bit is easy to dish out but cant take it?

And eugenics is not "racist" anymore then then evolution is. Stop believe the leftist/egalitarian premises of "we are all equal in ability" (we are not) "The only reason we have do not have equal results is become of some sort of "oppression"" (the reason we dont is because equality is bullshit), and ""Racism"" is the worse "crime" a person can commit or be guilty".

that is crap all the way around and agreeing with such premises is why the left has been able to do as much damage as it has been able to.

When you refuse to give the left the moral high group the lose.

[nikcers]

Worlds apart the armed forces of America, vs Russia, different tactics, different ROE, etc..

Yeah, its pointless, just give up before its even happen, great mindset.




No, they just understood that humans are subject to the laws of evolution and environment selection, the same as any other being in this world and their effects on culture and politics.

If you value freedom then you have to see it is not for everyone, nothing is, and if it has value it has to protect from those who would destroy it, and no freedom is not a muh feelz based suicide pact.






....No such thing as a leftist nationalist, as leftists are hostile to the nation state, its people, their culture and their right to preserve. You are just using words you dont know the meaning of and think you are smarter then you really are, your not.







So in order words you have nothing to back up your lies, fitting.

The state has a rightful place and a list of obligation, namely the defense of the nation, if that requires the use of force against others so be it.

'Muh Facist!!!! Muh Nazi", yeah, just a leftist tactic from a leftist like you.


But hey, ignore the impact of 3rd world hordes voting away your rights, I am share your mental gymnastics will some how blame those working to prevent it.




But didnt you know, if you stop people who want to steal from or harm you from being able to steal from and harm you, some how that is an infringement on their "right" to steal from and harm from us, because "muh feelz"/S










Thought you guys valued debate and freedom of speech?
If a person is wrong, they are wrong, does not matter their title,, rank, wealth, etc
Whats wrong,"muh free market" bit is easy to dish out but cant take it?

And eugenics is not "racist" anymore then then evolution is. Stop believe the leftist/egalitarian premises of "we are all equal in ability" (we are not) "The only reason we have do not have equal results is become of some sort of "oppression"" (the reason we dont is because equality is bull$#@!), and ""Racism"" is the worse "crime" a person can commit or be guilty".

that is crap all the way around and agreeing with such premises is why the left has been able to do as much damage as it has been able to.

When you refuse to give the left the moral high group the lose.

When you give up all your principles and ideas you become them that's what they are. That's why they want to silence us, because we have ideas and they don't. It exposes their lack of intellectual integrity.

[specsaregood]

Thought you guys valued debate and freedom of speech?
If a person is wrong, they are wrong, does not matter their title,, rank, wealth, etc
Whats wrong,"muh free market" bit is easy to dish out but cant take it?


Huh? The free market does not require participation. I just think it is pointless to argue about process; when end goals are completely different. But by all means, feel free to carry on.

[Danke]

Defending your home from invasion is not murder nor is it Nazism.

In fact it is your duty as a free citizen.

Liberty means being responsible for your situation.


Are people now so stupid to think "collectivism" or what ever you what to call it, is not neccsarry to protect your property?

OK, stand out as an individual against the mob and try to assert your property rights. Good luck with that. No, as hard as it is for the anarchist here to understand, people form groups. That will manifests itself in what we call governments.

But hey, go ahead and think you are the principled one standing alone against the group of libertarians. That very group that wants to leave you alone. It is tactics versus strategics. Study that.

We are being taxed to support our demise.

One need to belong to a group effort to stop another group that wants to continue and expand that. If you can't see that, well just follow the stupid argument that you are a human rights warrior and no one should be restricted from coming here. Do you lock your doors? Who do rely on when the mob comes to rob you?

Your neighbors?

Well, that is a group standing together, for a common defense. OMG, my HOA says you can't come onto my neighborhood and shit on my lawn. I will have to pay for that. But wait, who am I to say a neighboring community member can't freely travel to my neighborhood and shit on my lawn? Why should I be able to hire a person to prevent that? Why should I be able to build a barrier so they don't come over here and I have to pick up the taps for their expenses?

...

[RestorationOfLiberty]

When you give up all your principles and ideas you become them that's what they are. That's why they want to silence us, because we have ideas and they don't. It exposes their lack of intellectual integrity.

We went over this, goals are what matter, not how you get them achieved.

[timosman]

We went over this, goals are what matter, not how you get them achieved.

It is called Ethics. :tears:

[RestorationOfLiberty]

And when your "Ethics" cause you to lose, they are not worth it.


It is called Ethics. :tears:

[timosman]

For example - you don't criticize POTUS while he is on a foreign trip.

[nikcers]

For example - you don't criticize POTUS while he is on a foreign trip.

I guess I wasn't thikning of it in context but this is a win for Trump considering the Mexican president claimed they would not bow down and they ended up bowing down.

[eleganz]

Is he still promising to close the border? Or did that threat also pass with no action?

Was this due to the poor jobs report and warnings that tariffs on Mexico would weaken the economy even further?

This is easy, just visit salon.com for your answers so you can repeat them here.

Thx

[Swordsmyth]

True.

So when are we gonna take responsibility for the welfare state, bombing the $#@! out of the ME, creating coups all over Central & South America & taking their resources- not to mention creating the poor & needy- AND the invaders who everyone's so afraid of?

We are responsible for Big Gov so creating more Big Gov to save us ain't gonna work.

Real LIBERTY is the answer.
We are trying to stop the welfare state and the foreign intervention, we will never do that if the biggest government party is allowed to import unlimited voters.
It isn't creating more big government to make the government do one of the basic jobs even the smallest government is supposed to do.

[timosman]

I guess I wasn't thikning of it in context but this is a win for Trump considering the Mexican president claimed they would not bow down and they ended up bowing down.

Which makes Dems look even more ridiculous. :tears:

[timosman]

We are trying to stop the welfare state and the foreign intervention, we will never do that if the biggest government party is allowed to import unlimited voters.
It isn't creating more big government to make the government do one of the basic jobs even the smallest government is supposed to do.

I would prefer a more holistic approach. :tears:

[Swordsmyth]

It truly is disappointing how far some members have strayed from the libertarian ideals espoused by Ron that were coursing through this forum 10 years ago.

In other news, I'm glad Trump decided to stop this idiocy: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/progress-mexico-tariff-talks-still-long-way-go-officials-say-n1015076

I wonder how much of this, though, was because of a "deal" reached with Mexico so much as political theatre because he didn't have the votes to actually get away with these kind of tariffs on Mexico.

If there was actually a deal, this doesn't bode well for the future of international politics; it quite aptly demonstrates to the world that "if you're big and strong and act like a bully, you can get your way to varying degrees".

I can level plenty of criticism against the international community, but preferring diplomatic solutions and not escalating things is something that is well appreciated---the US preferring more aggressive stances is not, at all, in line with the libertarian ideal of being friends with the world and not poking our nose in everyone's business.
The world is a jungle and it's long past time our leaders used our power to protect the rights of Americans.

[Pauls' Revere]

Seems some of the immigrants are coming from Africa.

https://news.yahoo.com/dramatic-rise-migrants-africa-u-022759709.html

U.S. Customs and Border Protection says a “dramatic rise” in the number of African migrants crossing the U.S. border is contributing to a “humanitarian crisis,” according to the BBC.

More than 500 migrants from countries such as Cameroon, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and Angola have arrived at the Del Rio border station in Texas since May 30, including a group of 116 people, says the BBC.

Customs officials say the influx of migrants is overwhelming. “When we have 4,000 people in custody, we consider it high,” Customs and Border Patrol’s commissioner John Sanders told a press conference, according to the BBC. “If there’s 6,000 people in custody, we considered it a crisis. Right now, we have nearly 19,000 people in custody. So it’s just off the charts.”

[Swordsmyth]

Seems some of the immigrants are coming from Africa.

https://news.yahoo.com/dramatic-rise-migrants-africa-u-022759709.html

U.S. Customs and Border Protection says a “dramatic rise” in the number of African migrants crossing the U.S. border is contributing to a “humanitarian crisis,” according to the BBC.

More than 500 migrants from countries such as Cameroon, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and Angola have arrived at the Del Rio border station in Texas since May 30, including a group of 116 people, says the BBC.

Customs officials say the influx of migrants is overwhelming. “When we have 4,000 people in custody, we consider it high,” Customs and Border Patrol’s commissioner John Sanders told a press conference, according to the BBC. “If there’s 6,000 people in custody, we considered it a crisis. Right now, we have nearly 19,000 people in custody. So it’s just off the charts.”

From areas near the Ebola outbreak that is getting out of control.

[Swordsmyth]

Mexican Enforcement Surge
Mexico will take unprecedented steps to increase enforcement to curb irregular migration, to include the deployment of its National Guard throughout Mexico, giving priority to its southern border. Mexico is also taking decisive action to dismantle human smuggling and trafficking organizations as well as their illicit financial and transportation networks. Additionally, the United States and Mexico commit to strengthen bilateral cooperation, including information sharing and coordinated actions to better protect and secure our common border.
Migrant Protection Protocols
The United States will immediately expand the implementation of the existing Migrant Protection Protocols across its entire Southern Border. This means that those crossing the U.S. Southern Border to seek asylum will be rapidly returned to Mexico where they may await the adjudication of their asylum claims.
In response, Mexico will authorize the entrance of all of those individuals for humanitarian reasons, in compliance with its international obligations, while they await the adjudication of their asylum claims. Mexico will also offer jobs, healthcare and education according to its principles.
The United States commits to work to accelerate the adjudication of asylum claims and to conclude removal proceedings as expeditiously as possible.
Further Actions
Both parties also agree that, in the event the measures adopted do not have the expected results, they will take further actions. Therefore, the United States and Mexico will continue their discussions on the terms of additional understandings to address irregular migrant flows and asylum issues, to be completed and announced within 90 days, if necessary.

[timosman]

Nobody can out-Trump Trump. :tears:

[Swordsmyth]

President Donald Trump has announced an immigration reform deal with the Mexican government which likely will allow border officials to end the catch-and-release of Central American migrants. Ending catch-and-release is a huge win for Americans and Trump because it means border officials now have a legal alternative to the catch-and-release rules which allow migrants to legally enter the United States if they bring children and claim asylum.
Those catch-and-release rules set by Congress and the courts also allow the migrants to get work permits before their asylum court hearings, which are now backlogged for two or more years.
Instead of catch-and-release, the migrants can be returned to Mexico until their asylum claims can be heard by a judge.


Mexico’s agreement to offer jobs and healthcare to the migrants will weaken lawsuits by pro-migration U.S. groups that oppose the deal.

Trump and his deputies wanted Mexico to declare itself a safe third country because that would give U.S. border officials the permanent legal authority to reject migrants who cross through Mexico. But the Mexican government’s agreement to host the migrants before their U.S. court hearings provide similar legal authority to U.S. border agencies,
The deal means that border agencies will not have to release migrants into the United States prior to their asylum hearings.
The end of catch-and-release will likely wreck the cartels’ labor-trafficking business, which depends on migrants getting U.S. jobs to repay their smuggling debts. Few poor people in Honduras, El Salvador, or Guatemala will go into debt with the cartels, or mortgage their farms and homes to the cartels, once they know they will be forced to remain in Mexico prior to their asylum hearings.
The reduction of migration will also help stabilize the Central Americans countries, which is needed before foreign investors build farms or factories in those nations.

More at: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/06/07/trump-deal-with-mexico-likely-ends-catch-and-release-defunds-cartels/

[goldenequity]

[h=2]......
Trump and his deputies wanted Mexico to declare itself a safe third country because that would give U.S. border officials the permanent legal authority to reject migrants who cross through Mexico. But the Mexican government’s agreement to host the migrants before their U.S. court hearings provide similar legal authority to U.S. border agencies,
The deal means that border agencies will not have to release migrants into the United States prior to their asylum hearings.
More at: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/06/07/trump-deal-with-mexico-likely-ends-catch-and-release-defunds-cartels/

Don't cha just :heart: how the empire works? Ignore international law when you violate it. Use it when you need it. **b-dum tish**

[Swordsmyth]

Don't cha just :heart: how the empire works? Ignore international law when you violate it. Use it when you need it. **b-dum tish**
As long as those actions defend the rights of Americans I don't mind, it's only when they harm America that I am upset.

"International Law" is almost always globalist garbage meant to destroy sovereignty and violate the rights of individuals.

[goldenequity]

:aok:

[RestorationOfLiberty]

As long as those actions defend the rights of Americans I don't mind, it's only when they harm America that I am upset.

"International Law" is almost always globalist garbage meant to destroy sovereignty and violate the rights of individuals.

This, America First America Always. If that means "International Law" gets broken, so be it. If they have a problem, we can settle it with force.

[nikcers]

international law is unamerican


"It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliance with any portion of the foreign world": it was George Washington's Farewell Address to us. The inaugural pledge of Thomas Jefferson was no less clear: "Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations-entangling alliances with none."

[Dr.3D]

From areas near the Ebola outbreak that is getting out of control.
Seems like that entire area would be under quarantine. They shouldn't be letting anybody leave that area, let alone the country, while that outbreak is in progress.

[Swordsmyth]

A graffiti mural welcomes Central Americans who cross the Suchiate River from Guatemala to Mexico: a roaring jaguar protecting a group of trekking migrants, beneath the words: "May nothing on Earth stop us."But the real-life migrants being deported across the border in the other direction are a testament to the fact that, under growing pressure from US President Donald Trump, Mexico is intensifying its efforts to do just that.
Mexico's southern border is 1,138 kilometers (707 miles) of porous, largely unpoliced territory, much of it stretching through the jungle.
It is not very hard to cross for the undocumented Central Americans who have been heading toward the United States in a growing exodus in recent months.
That has provoked the wrath of Trump, who is using the threat of tariffs to force the Mexican government to do more to stop them.
The strategy appears to be working: Mexico has increased migrant detentions, dramatically restricted visas, stepped up military and police patrols in the border region, and agreed Thursday to deploy 6,000 members of its newly created National Guard to reinforce the border.
The crackdown has made reaching the United States an increasingly impossible dream for migrants like Jose Mario, a 53-year-old Honduran man who has just crossed legally into Mexico -- with a visa that restricts his movement to the south of the country, far from the US border.
"We decided we'd rather come legally," he tells AFP on the bridge that spans the river to the Mexican town of Ciudad Hidalgo, in the southern state of Chiapas.
"The migrants who ford the river get caught and deported."
As if to punctuate his sentence, three buses pull up to take a group of migrants back where they came from.
Their expressionless faces -- most of them very young -- look out from behind the buses' tinted windows.
Jose Mario came in a group of around 100 migrants who arrived early Thursday.
He is waiting on the bridge with friends who also plan to apply for a temporary "regional visitor visa," which will restrict their movement to the southern states -- one of the government's latest initiatives to keep migrants away from the US.


Some 300,000 migrants have entered Mexico so far this year, according to the government.
Under pressure from Trump, the Mexican authorities have detained 51,000 of them -- a 17-percent increase from the same period last year.
"Trump is right," a Mexican border officer told AFP, speaking on condition of anonymity.
"Mexico lets them in, gives them benefits. It shouldn't."
Mexico's leftist President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador took office in December promising to welcome migrants and protect their rights.
But as Trump lashed out, the leader known as "AMLO" changed tack.
In recent weeks, the police presence in southern Mexico has surged. The authorities have staged unprecedented raids to round up undocumented migrants, and put up highway checkpoints.
On Wednesday, they detained hundreds of migrants who had entered Mexico in a caravan.
Migrant detention centers are meanwhile saturated. They have been the scene of riots and breakouts several times in recent weeks.

More at: https://news.yahoo.com/hopes-dim-c-american-migrants-mexicos-southern-border-054230981.html

[RestorationOfLiberty]

We are trying to stop the welfare state and the foreign intervention, we will never do that if the biggest government party is allowed to import unlimited voters.
It isn't creating more big government to make the government do one of the basic jobs even the smallest government is supposed to do.

But didnt you know Swordsmyth, if you keep out people who will vote to expend the state, some how the lesser action of keeping them out will be the same as allowing them into the nation and voting away our rights.

[Swordsmyth]

But didnt you know @Swordsmyth (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=65299), if you keep out people who will vote to expend the state, some how the lesser action of keeping them out will be the same as allowing them into the nation and voting away our rights.
Didn't you know? they are more liberty oriented than we are, it is our fault their countries are so much more communist and authoritarian than the US.

[RestorationOfLiberty]

Didn't you know? they are more liberty oriented than we are, it is our fault their countries are so much more communist and authoritarian than the US.

Forgot to out /s in mine.

[Swordsmyth]

Forgot to out /s in mine.
No need. :)

[EBounding]

Which actions were not already agreed to before the tariff threat?

[specsaregood]

Which actions were not already agreed to before the tariff threat?

Why don't you tell us? And while at it; which supposed pre-agreed actions where actually being enforced before Trumps tariff threats?

[EBounding]

Why don't you tell us? And while at it; which supposed pre-agreed actions where actually being enforced before Trumps tariff threats?

I don't know, that's why I was asking.

[nikcers]

I don't know, that's why I was asking.

Apparently the difference was that they agreed to a larger amount of troops and to accelerate the migrant protection protocols. This was from the original new york times hit piece that said that the tariff threat didn't make any difference in negotiations.

[Swordsmyth]

Mexican Military begins arresting migrants riding trains in Mexico on their way to the US (http://nnettle.com/news/7757-it-s-begun-mexican-military-begins-arresting-migrants-riding-train-to-us-border)

[Swordsmyth]

Mexico said Monday it will discuss a "safe third country" agreement with the United States -- in which migrants entering Mexican territory must apply for asylum there rather than the US -- if the flow of undocumented immigrants continues.Amid speculation about the contents of Mexico's deal to curb migration in order to avert President Donald Trump's threat of tariffs, Foreign Minister Marcelo Ebrard said he had rebuffed the US demand for such a measure, but agreed to revisit the matter in 45 days.
"In the meeting with the vice president of the United States, they were insistent on the safe third country issue," Ebrard told a press conference, three days after reaching a last minute deal to avoid punitive tariffs over the surge of Central American migrants arriving at the US-Mexican border.
"We told them -- I think it was the most important achievement of the negotiations -- 'let's set a time period to see if what Mexico is proposing will work, and if not, we'll sit down and see what additional measures'" are needed, he said.
Ebrard, who led the Mexican negotiating team in marathon talks in Washington, spoke as Trump renewed his tariff threat over a secret provision in the deal.
Trump tweeted that part of the deal would require approval by the Mexican Congress -- he did not give details -- and that "if for any reason the approval is not forthcoming, Tariffs will be reinstated!"


More at: https://news.yahoo.com/mexico-discuss-safe-third-country-deal-us-migration-145207237.html

[Swordsmyth]

After freezing the bank accounts of 26 individuals and entities amid a probe into human trafficking, Mexico has refused to name the account owners - some of which appear to have originated in the US, UK, African nations and Central America, according to Breitbart (https://www.breitbart.com/border/2019/06/07/mexico-withholds-identities-of-migrant-caravan-funders-in-u-s-britain/).
Mexico's Finance and Tax Secretariat (SHCP) on Thursday announced that the 26 accounts had been seized. Diplomatic sources told Breitbart News that the probe is being personally overseen by UIF Director Santiago Nieto Castillo, who briefs Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador directly.

The SHCP’s Financial Intelligence Unit (UIF) tracked suspicious transactions beginning in October 2018 to determine the sources of funding for the caravans (https://www.breitbart.com/border/2019/06/06/mexico-claims-some-funding-for-migrant-caravans-came-from-u-s-and-england/). The results reportedly pointed to some monies coming from the U.S., U.K., African nations, and throughout Central America. Diplomatic sources revealed the investigation is still developing since the case was prioritized Monday as tensions over tariffs escalated. -Breitbart (https://www.breitbart.com/border/2019/06/07/mexico-withholds-identities-of-migrant-caravan-funders-in-u-s-britain/)
As part of Mexico's crackdown to avoid US tariffs, Mexican authorities also arrested two caravan organizers reportedly tied to the US-based group Pueblo Sin Fronteras, which helps migrants illegally cross into America. According to officials, the groups would demand money from some of the migrants.


What's more, law enforcement sources revealed to Breitbart that the UIF investigation found four sanctioned accounts linked to human smuggling groups that are loyal to Mexican drug cartels in border towns. Two of the accounts were linked to Piedras Negras, which is tied to the Cartel Del Noreste faction of the Los Zetas, as well as an independent smuggler in the area. The two other accounts are believed to be tied to Gulf Cartel operators based in Reynosa, Tamaulipas.


https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-06-10/mexico-refuses-name-international-figures-bankrolling-migrant-caravans

[Swordsmyth]

Mexican Foreign Minister Marcelo Ebrard said Brazil, Panama, and Guatemala may need to be brought in to help if a deal unveiled last week between Washington and Mexico fails to reduce the numbers of U.S.-bound migrants crossing Mexico.

Ebrard said that if Mexico could not contain the migrant flows, other countries might also need to be involved.
Asylum seekers from El Salvador and Honduras first pass through Guatemala when fleeing their homes, while Cubans and Haitians often fly first to Panama before heading to the United States through Mexico. Migrants from African countries regularly fly to Brazil before making the arduous journey north.
"If the measures we are proposing are not successful, we have to discuss with the United States and with other countries, like Guatemala, Panama and Brazil," Ebrard said. "If we have to participate in a regional model like the one I have just described, we would have to present that to Congress."
While he did not go into detail, Ebrard suggested that asylum seekers might have to seek refuge in the first country they reached after leaving their homeland.
The governments of Brazil, Panama and Guatemala did not immediately reply to requests for comment.

More at: https://news.yahoo.com/mexico-says-other-latam-countries-164016610.html

[PAF]

Mexican Foreign Minister Marcelo Ebrard said Brazil, Panama, and Guatemala may need to be brought in to help if a deal unveiled last week between Washington and Mexico fails to reduce the numbers of U.S.-bound migrants crossing Mexico.

Ebrard said that if Mexico could not contain the migrant flows, other countries might also need to be involved.
Asylum seekers from El Salvador and Honduras first pass through Guatemala when fleeing their homes, while Cubans and Haitians often fly first to Panama before heading to the United States through Mexico. Migrants from African countries regularly fly to Brazil before making the arduous journey north.
"If the measures we are proposing are not successful, we have to discuss with the United States and with other countries, like Guatemala, Panama and Brazil," Ebrard said. "If we have to participate in a regional model like the one I have just described, we would have to present that to Congress."
While he did not go into detail, Ebrard suggested that asylum seekers might have to seek refuge in the first country they reached after leaving their homeland.
The governments of Brazil, Panama and Guatemala did not immediately reply to requests for comment.

More at: https://news.yahoo.com/mexico-says-other-latam-countries-164016610.html



In a Free Market system...

Companies compete, without government influence. The employer is free to hire/fire whoever it wants. Likewise, the employee, if not happy, is free to seek employment elsewhere.

If enough people quit and flee the company (or country) and choose to work for another, over time the originating company would lose productivity, lose sales, and potentially face going out of business. A good businessperson who has invested their time, sweat and money will be forced to look at market conditions and attempt to compete in order to stay afloat, or even outperform.

This aspect is being completely ignored and is certainly not in the "news".

So, until we get back to the root of things, things will never improve. You can keep putting band aids on, putting the noose around your throat, but the end result is the root problem is not being discussed or dealt with.

All government solutions to restrict, provide handouts, etc. do nothing but exasperate problems that government caused in the first place.

Other countries may have their own problems, but until our country takes the lead and shows other countries what freedom and liberty can truly achieve, the world will never change.

[Swordsmyth]

In a Free Market system...

Companies compete, without government influence. The employer is free to hire/fire whoever it wants. Likewise, the employee, if not happy, is free to seek employment elsewhere.

If enough people quit and flee the company (or country) and choose to work for another, over time the originating company would lose productivity, lose sales, and potentially face going out of business. A good businessperson who has invested their time, sweat and money will be forced to look at market conditions and attempt to compete in order to stay afloat, or even outperform.

This aspect is being completely ignored and is certainly not in the "news".

So, until we get back to the root of things, things will never improve. You can keep putting band aids on, putting the noose around your throat, but the end result is the root problem is not being discussed or dealt with.

All government solutions to restrict, provide handouts, etc. do nothing but exasperate problems that government caused in the first place.

Other countries may have their own problems, but until our country takes the lead and shows other countries what freedom and liberty can truly achieve, the world will never change.
Communists destroy their own country and then flee the wreckage like rats deserting a sinking ship, then they support the same policies in their new country that destroyed the last one, countries have a right to limit and control who can join them in order to avoid being dragged down to the lowest common denominator of tyranny and poverty.