Infuriating Democrats, Trump Plans To Redefine Poverty, Cutting Americans From Welfare

[Swordsmyth]

The Trump Administration is looking into altering how it determines the national poverty level, which may put some Americans at risk of losing access to welfare programs, according to Bloomberg (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-06/trump-poverty-line-inflation). The move might occur from changing how inflation is calculated in the "official poverty measure" according to a regulatory filing by White House Office of Management and Budget. That formula has been used for decades to try and determine where the poverty line is and what people qualify for social programs and federal benefits.
The measure is calculated at three times the cost of a minimum food diet and adjusted every year as prices rise. It was first set in the 1960s and, in 2018, a family of four making no more than $25,900 was considered under the poverty line. This figure determines eligibility for federal, state and nonprofit programs like Medicaid and food stamps.
https://zh-prod-1cc738ca-7d3b-4a72-b792-20bd8d8fa069.storage.googleapis.com/s3fs-public/inline-images/pov%201.png

By changing this measure, the poverty level could wind up rising at a slower rate. One proposal has been a shift to "chained CPI", which regularly shows a slower pace of price gains than the already rigged traditional measures. It shows slower inflation growth because it assumes consumers will substitute less expensive items when prices rise.
The Office of Management and Budget said: “Because of this, changes to the poverty thresholds, including how they are updated for inflation over time, may affect eligibility for programs that use the poverty guidelines.”


https://zh-prod-1cc738ca-7d3b-4a72-b792-20bd8d8fa069.storage.googleapis.com/s3fs-public/inline-images/qqw.png

The change is being reported as an effort by the Trump administration to make it more difficult to access welfare programs. Last year, the president signed an executive order calling on federal agencies to strictly enforce current work requirements for welfare recipients and propose new stricter requirements that could reduce eligibility.

Trump said in December: “Millions of able-bodied, working-age adults continue to collect food stamps without working or even looking for work. Our goal is to move these Americans from dependence to independence, and into a good-paying job and rewarding career.”

More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-05-07/infurtiating-democrats-trump-plans-redefine-poverty-cutting-americans-welfare

[oyarde]

Sounds good to me . Cut it to the bone . Hell take those 30K & 40K numbers off the board all together , then the 20K .

[Swordsmyth]

The USDA also announced (https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/04/15/2019-07194/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program-student-eligibility-convicted-felons-lottery-and-gambling) in June that it would be putting policies into place that would restrict certain groups from obtaining SNAP benefits.
People who win the lottery, win a significant amount of money from gambling, or are convicted felons who do not comply with their sentences would be disqualified from receiving government assistance.
The agency also said that it would require a better “data verification system” to ensure that gamblers, convicted felons, and people in the country illegally be barred from receiving government assistance.

More at: https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2019/06/19/million-individuals-drop-off-food-stamps-under-trump/

[r3volution 3.0]

By changing this measure, the poverty level could wind up rising at a slower rate.

A very slightly slower rate, like 0.2% less per year; and then the poverty line doesn't affect eligibility for the two largest welfare programs.

Some rough math suggests we'd save about $420 billion over the next 20 years.

Ironically enough, $420 billion is exactly the estimated increase in federal spending from FY2018 to FY2019.

Or, for another point of reference, interest on the debt accrued since Jan 2017 will cost about $867 billion over the next 20 years.

[Swordsmyth]

A very slightly slower rate, like 0.2% less per year; and then the poverty line doesn't affect eligibility for the two largest welfare programs.

Some rough math suggests we'd save about $420 billion over the next 20 years.

Ironically enough, $420 billion is exactly the estimated increase in federal spending from FY2018 to FY2019.

Or, for another point of reference, interest on the debt accrued since Jan 2017 will cost about $867 billion over the next 20 years.
Every little bit helps and the benefits of getting people off welfare aren't just fiscal.

Trump can only do so much without help from Congress.

[r3volution 3.0]

Every little bit helps and the benefits of getting people off welfare aren't just fiscal.

If a politician cuts spending 1% here and increases it 10% there, he doesn't get credit for cutting spending.


Trump can only do so much without help from Congress.

Congress didn't make him propose spending increases or sign those proposed by others.

[nikcers]

If a politician cuts spending 1% here and increases it 10% there, he doesn't get credit for cutting spending.



Congress didn't make him propose spending increases or sign those proposed by others.

The idea is that if you get people off welfare and into a career that they enjoy they might contribute to society and make the economy better. Not only that but having a job is good for the soul. My mom told me I should sign up for food stamps because I have been out of work for the first time since 2006, I said I would never do that because I would lose my political soul. Plus I could probably find a good job if I looked hard enough. I just don't know where I could go and not get harrassed by the people who harassed me at my last job. I tell people what they did to me and people think I am crazy. I would never sign up for welfare though there is no such thing as a free lunch.

[r3volution 3.0]

The idea is that if you get people off welfare and into a career that they enjoy they might contribute to society and make the economy better. Not only that but having a job is good for the soul. My mom told me I should sign up for food stamps because I have been out of work for the first time since 2006, I said I would never do that because I would lose my political soul. Plus I could probably find a good job if I looked hard enough. I just don't know where I could go and not get harrassed by the people who harassed me at my last job. I tell people what they did to me and people think I am crazy. I would never sign up for welfare though there is no such thing as a free lunch.

And that's all well and good, but, like the fiscal savings, it'll be a drop in the bucket.

[nikcers]

And that's all well and good, but, like the fiscal savings, it'll be a drop in the bucket.

Less people relying on government assistance is always a good thing especially if the economy grows because of it.

[Superfluous Man]

Why does the thread title say he "plans" to do this, while the article it quotes only says he's "looking into" it?

[Zippyjuan]

Why does the thread title say he "plans" to do this, while the article it quotes only says he's "looking into" it?

Still a proposal. And the idea was to change how they calculate inflation- cost of living adjustments- not what level was considered "poverty". People in that class now would still be there (unless they started making more money). All we have so far is a request for comments. And the comment period is now closed (45 days after the request was posted on May 7th).

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/05/07/2019-09106/request-for-comment-on-the-consumer-inflation-measures-produced-by-federal-statistical-agencies


ACTION:

Notice of solicitation of comments.

SUMMARY:

The Office of Management and Budget OMB is seeking comment on the differences among the various consumer price indexes produced by the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) and the Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA), and in particular how those differences might influence the estimation of the Official Poverty Measure (OPM) and other income measures produced by the Census Bureau. Based on the comments received and internal discussions with experts, OMB will consider the need to update the specific inflation measure used to adjust the OPM, as well as the need for guidance to Federal agencies to communicate the strengths, weaknesses, and best practices for selecting and using the different indexes.


In practice, the CPI-U has been the index used for the annual adjustments. This policy has not been reevaluated since the introduction of new consumer inflation measures, such as the C-CPI-U. OMB is currently reevaluating the appropriateness of the use of the CPI-U for annual adjustment in the OPM. To assist in this reevaluation, OMB assembled an interagency technical working group to study an array of possible price change measures and to make a recommendation to OMB on potentially revising the current method for adjusting the OPM. The comments received under this Notice will be reviewed and considered by the technical working group in developing their recommendation to OMB.

The OPM, also known as the poverty threshold, should not be confused with the poverty guidelines produced annually by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. While the poverty thresholds are used for calculating official poverty population statistics, the poverty guidelines are used for administrative purposes. Most commonly the poverty thresholds are used by a number of federal, state, local, and non-profit programs, such as Start Printed Page 19963Medicaid and the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), to determine income eligibility. The guidelines are based on the previous year's poverty thresholds, and updated for inflation using the CPI-U, based on statutory language in the Community Services Block Grant Act (42 U.S.C. 9902(2)). Because of this, changes to the poverty thresholds, including how they are updated for inflation over time, may affect eligibility for programs that use the poverty guidelines. OMB is not currently seeking comment on the poverty guidelines or their application.

[r3volution 3.0]

Less people relying on government assistance is always a good thing especially if the economy grows because of it.

Of course, but let's not exaggerate its importance or let this blind us to the fact that this administration is making government larger overall.

If Bernie comes out with a $2B savings in some program while proposing a $1T increase elsewhere, he doesn't deserve our support.

Among other things, that's how destructive myths (like, Hoover or Reagan were small government guys) get started.

[Origanalist]

Why does the thread title say he "plans" to do this, while the article it quotes only says he's "looking into" it?

I know! I know! Because it's propaganda?

[PAF]

How much more will this cost, another $4.6 Billion, like that migration budget?

Every single time the government does something it ends up costing me more frn’s and freedom.

[Superfluous Man]

Still a proposal. And the idea was to change how they calculate inflation- cost of living adjustments- not what level was considered "poverty". People in that class now would still be there (unless they started making more money). All we have so far is a request for comments. And the comment period is now closed (45 days after the request was posted on May 7th).

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/05/07/2019-09106/request-for-comment-on-the-consumer-inflation-measures-produced-by-federal-statistical-agencies

Those primary sources do not support the assertion being made in the thread title. They give no evidence that Trump is planning to do this.

[Zippyjuan]

Those primary sources do not support the assertion being made in the thread title. They give no evidence that Trump is planning to do this.

True. There is no actual plan to reduce welfare customers or change the definition of poverty. The article is from Zerohedge which loves to exaggerate.

[nikcers]

Of course, but let's not exaggerate its importance or let this blind us to the fact that this administration is making government larger overall.

If Bernie comes out with a $2B savings in some program while proposing a $1T increase elsewhere, he doesn't deserve our support.

Among other things, that's how destructive myths (like, Hoover or Reagan were small government guys) get started.

Bernie Sanders is a bad comparison, ofcourse he can't simultanously get people not to be dependent on government while increasing domestic spending on government programs. The best thing we could do is get rid of a shortage of doctors and get rid of government healthcare. Government interference would just make it worse because if we were to massively increase spending on healthcare like a medicare for all type of thing we would still not have enough doctors.

[r3volution 3.0]

Bernie Sanders is a bad comparison, ofcourse he can't simultanously get people not to be dependent on government while increasing domestic spending on government programs. The best thing we could do is get rid of a shortage of doctors and get rid of government healthcare. Government interference would just make it worse because if we were to massively increase spending on healthcare like a medicare for all type of thing we would still not have enough doctors.

I don't follow.

The comparison was between a Bernie who proposed a tiny cut here and a huge increase there and a Trump who is actually doing just that.

...the point being that neither would/does deserve credit from we small government advocates.

[nikcers]

I don't follow.

The comparison was between a Bernie who proposed a tiny cut here and a huge increase there and a Trump who is actually doing just that.

...the point being that neither would/does deserve credit from we small government advocates.

Trump just talking about these issues is a good thing even if its something that requires congress because he can sell the idea to the Republican party. At the end of the day the more people demand reform the more we have a chance at saving the republic. As it stands now the government is being sold to corporations so we have a defacto corporatocracy

[r3volution 3.0]

Trump just talking about these issues is a good thing even if its something that requires congress because he can sell the idea to the Republican party. At the end of the day the more people demand reform the more we have a chance at saving the republic.

That's one way of looking at it.

I'm more inclined to the cynical view that these trifling reforms are PR stunts designed to put a small government shine on a big government turd.


As it stands now the government is being sold to corporations so we have a defacto corporatocracy

...not sure where that came from.

[showpan]

Nothing will come of this since JP Morgan makes millions off welfare programs and holds the strings to this puppet. On another note... Bernie is a great example as my taxes were increased substantially last year and then given to others.

[nikcers]

That's one way of looking at it.

I'm more inclined to the cynical view that these trifling reforms are PR stunts designed to put a small government shine on a big government turd.



...not sure where that came from.

Ideas are really important because the biggest problem the country has is people asking the government to fix things that they can't fix. Joe Biden says he will cure cancer, he would only say that if he thought that people actually think that government can cure cancer.

[Zippyjuan]

Ideas are really important because the biggest problem the country has is people asking the government to fix things that they can't fix. Joe Biden says he will cure cancer, he would only say that if he thought that people actually think that government can cure cancer.

Trump will cure HIV and cancer.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7zOgxQ5E38

[nikcers]

Trump will cure HIV and cancer.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7zOgxQ5E38

he said---protect the second amendment! - Trump sells good ideas. Right to try so people with cancer have more options now for treatment he doesn't say he will cure cancer he says "we" will cure cancer,