Have open border moles in Trump’s Administration conned him to not stop the border invasion?

[johnwk]

Let’s remember the good old days during the entire year of 2008 when total apprehension’s at our southwestern border was a mere was 723,840 LINK (https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/publications/ois_apprehensions_fs_2005-2008.pdf). And today, during just the first few months of the year, the apprehensions are at a staggering 100,000 LINK (https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/09/politics/apprehensions-border-highest-decade/index.html)


Keep in mind almost all of these apprehensions are being released into our population by the Trump Administration. In fact, our country is being invaded by tens of thousands of unwanted foreigners each month and Trump appears to have been conned into not using his constitutionally assigned duty to protect our border against “invasions.”


The fact is, under the existing conditions, our President would be acting well within his assigned duty to suspend the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus and place our military on our southwestern border with instructions to use every humanitarian means [repeated warnings and then tear gas, rubber bullets, etc.,] to discourage these invaders from setting foot on American soil. Allowing these invaders to set foot on American soil, under existing conditions, is the same as inviting them to join our population. Detention centers are full, the use of expedited removals is obstructed by open border judicial activist judges and ACLU activists, and this has resulted in the very definition of an open border, which was not the case in 2008 and before.


Why is President Trump not taking extronarary measures to deal with existing extronarary circumstances, which are in fact destructive to our nation’s general welfare? Our Constitution is not a suicide pact!


The answer may very well be, President Trump is being conned and “advised” by open border wolves in sheep’s clothing who have infiltrated his Administration. But in the end, the buck stops with our President, and he is not protecting us from an ongoing invasion.

JWK

President Trump, by the terms of our Constitution, is empowered “To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions”.

[Cap]

This is so laughable...so let me get this straight, We are being told that MAGA is in fact a gullible fool right? He's being manipulated and coerced on his domestic agenda AND his foreign policy? Well then, it seems that MAGA, the grand master chess player, is in fact not even a mediocre checker player...Right? So if this is true, why should anyone vote for this idiot to run the country? Things that make you go hmmm.

[Superfluous Man]

Is it possible that Trump's singular infatuation with building a border wall is more about having a legacy of getting credit for building a huge and impressive construction project--the "Trump Wall," as he himself has called it--than it is about immigration?

So far he's done a remarkable job of dramatically increasing illegal immigration. And his own expressed opinions on that subject, when his precious wall is not the issue, have been equivocal at best, if not positively approving of amnesty for those who already have immigrated illegally and a process by which those who might in the future could instead just come in legally through the big beautiful door in his big beautiful wall.

[johnwk]

This is so laughable...so let me get this straight, We are being told that MAGA is in fact a gullible fool right? He's being manipulated and coerced on his domestic agenda AND his foreign policy? Well then, it seems that MAGA, the grand master chess player, is in fact not even a mediocre checker player...Right? So if this is true, why should anyone vote for this idiot to run the country? Things that make you go hmmm.


I believe the most appropriate action to address the current invasion is using our military to prevent this army of foreign invaders from setting foot on American soil. The question is, does President Trump realize this, and that it is within his constitutionally assigned duty? Those are the questions I am struggling with. What say you?


JWK

Without a Fifth Column Media and Yellow Journalism [our MSM], the crisis at our southern border would never have grown to what now amounts to an outright invasion and threatens the general welfare of the United states.

[johnwk]

So far he's done a remarkable job of dramatically increasing illegal immigration.

You fail to take into account that every time President Trump has attempted to deal with illegal immigration in an effective way, some Fifth Column Activist judge has stepped in his way. Why do you ignore the actions of these obstructionist judges?


JWK

[tfurrh]

This is so laughable...so let me get this straight, We are being told that MAGA is in fact a gullible fool right? He's being manipulated and coerced on his domestic agenda AND his foreign policy? Well then, it seems that MAGA, the grand master chess player, is in fact not even a mediocre checker player...Right? So if this is true, why should anyone vote for this idiot to run the country? Things that make you go hmmm.

You must hate American insert noun. I'm going to make up an acronym and diagnose you with it.

[Cap]

Is it possible that Trump's singular infatuation with building a border wall is more about having a legacy of getting credit for building a huge and impressive construction project--the "Trump Wall," as he himself has called it--than it is about immigration?

So far he's done a remarkable job of dramatically increasing illegal immigration. And his own expressed opinions on that subject, when his precious wall is not the issue, have been equivocal at best, if not positively approving of amnesty for those who already have immigrated illegally and a process by which those who might in the future could instead just come in legally through the big beautiful door in his big beautiful wall.This does fit hand and glove with someone that has a Narcissistic personality disorder. Occam's razor basically.

[Superfluous Man]

The question is, does President Trump realize this, and that it is within his constitutionally assigned duty?

For the sake of argument, let's say you're right about the president's constitutionally assigned duty.

Where in the world did you ever get the idea that Donald Effing Trump gives the slightest care about the Constitution?

Rather than ask if Trump realizes anything you're saying, you should ask if he cares about any of it. He clearly doesn't.

[PAF]

6408

Reagan, Clinton, Obama... all participants in that wall which is not even the actual border. The Rio Grande river is the actual border, miles and miles away from where the wall is. The wall has caused more damage and prevented Circular Flow. It eliminates the 4th amendment, requires government Eminent Domain to take rightful Private Property, ceases Private Contract Rights between employer/employee, among a host of other anti-liberty and police state tactics. It also requires "papers please" which automatically allows them access to free benefits when they visit the local government office. What more can a this/NWO want.

I would answer who the real Moles are but I will be polite.

[johnwk]

For the sake of argument, let's say you're right about the president's constitutionally assigned duty.

Where in the world did you ever get the idea that Donald Effing Trump gives the slightest care about the Constitution?

Rather than ask if Trump realizes anything you're saying, you should ask if he cares about any of it. He clearly doesn't.



Your Trump Derangement Syndrome (https://710wor.iheart.com/featured/mark-simone/content/2017-12-17-check-here-to-see-if-you-have-trump-derangement-syndrome/) is showing, and it is preventing you from having a productive discussion.



JWK

Without a Fifth Column Media and Yellow Journalism [our MSM], the crisis at our southern border would never have grown to what now amounts to an outright invasion and threatens the general welfare of the United states.

[Superfluous Man]

You fail to take into account that every time President Trump has attempted to deal with illegal immigration in an effective way, some Fifth Column Activist judge has stepped in his way. Why do you ignore the actions of these obstructionist judges?


JWK

I am not ignoring that. I am talking about how Trump's own empty promises and anti-immigration rhetoric have positively contributed to the surge of illegal immigration.

It is parallel to how Obama, just by being president and saying negative things about guns, contributed to a huge surge in gun sales. There is no denying that Obama's being president was hugely effective in putting more guns, especially AR-style guns, in American homes, as well as on the streets.

Both of these phenomena illustrate the unintended consequences that are bound to result any time government acts or threatens to act in some intervention in the marketplace.

[Superfluous Man]

Your Trump Derangement Syndrome (https://710wor.iheart.com/featured/mark-simone/content/2017-12-17-check-here-to-see-if-you-have-trump-derangement-syndrome/) is showing, and it is preventing you from having a productive discussion.


You say that as if something I said in that post is even controversial.

Is there any part of it that anyone at all, except the most blindly loyal Trump worshipers would dispute? Has he ever done or said anything that you honestly think indicated he cared about the Constitution?

I notice that you avoided answering the question of where you got the idea that Trump cared about the Constitution. I can't imagine that you have any decent reason for that assumption.

[Cap]

You fail to take into account that every time President Trump has attempted to deal with illegal immigration in an effective way, some Fifth Column Activist judge has stepped in his way. Why do you ignore the actions of these obstructionist judges?


JWK

I'm leaning more in the direction that MAGA has a Narcissistic personality disorder, with severe neo-con tendencies. Does that answer your question?

[johnwk]

Reagan, Clinton, Obama... all participants in that wall which is not even the actual border. The Rio Grande river is the actual border, miles and miles away from where the wall is. The wall has caused more damage and prevented Circular Flow. It eliminates the 4th amendment, requires government Eminent Domain to take rightful Private Property, ceases Private Contract Rights between employer/employee, among a host of other anti-liberty and police state tactics. It also requires "papers please" which automatically allows them access to free benefits when they visit the local government office. What more can a this/NWO want.

I would answer who the real Moles are but I will be polite.

I take it you have no problem with the tens of thousands of poverty stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, disease carrying and criminals flooding across our southwest border each month.


JWK

[johnwk]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by johnwk http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=6793036#post6793036)
You fail to take into account that every time President Trump has attempted to deal with illegal immigration in an effective way, some Fifth Column Activist judge has stepped in his way. Why do you ignore the actions of these obstructionist judges?


JWK



I'm leaning more in the direction that MAGA has a Narcissistic personality disorder, with severe neo-con tendencies. Does that answer your question?

No. It has nothing to do with the problem at our southwest border.


JWK

[Cap]

I take it you have no problem with the tens of thousands of poverty stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, disease carrying and criminals flooding across our southwest border each month.


JWK

What is apparent is that MAGA doesn't. Isn't that what is important to you?

[PAF]

I take it you have no problem with the tens of thousands of poverty stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, disease carrying and criminals flooding across our southwest border each month.


JWK


It is NONE of my business, unless a crime has been committed against person or property and he/she has their day in court to face their accuser.

I see that your left wing is much bigger than your right.

[juleswin]

You fail to take into account that every time President Trump has attempted to deal with illegal immigration in an effective way, some Fifth Column Activist judge has stepped in his way. Why do you ignore the actions of these obstructionist judges?


JWK

He could have done everything he wanted when he had the house and Senate but instead he decides to make a stink once the democrats took over the house. Maybe he is playing games with his supporters.

Personally I don't think he really cares about stopping illegal immigration. Look at the lot he sounds himself with and u will see that they are the ones who created the refugee crisis in ME and NA and then sent an to Europe. He is now trying to create more refugees in South America who again will just end up coming North to seek refuge. He is the problem not part of the solution

[johnwk]

I am not ignoring that. I am talking about how Trump's own empty promises and anti-immigration rhetoric ...


You see? You wont even make the distinction between illegal immigration and immigration.


JWK

[PAF]

The government (every president on both sides of the isle) wants a "wall".......but they REFUSE to eliminate free handouts to foreigners.

Kind of ironic, isn't it?


Ron Paul has said: "Good intentions almost always leads to bad consequences".

[johnwk]

It is NONE of my business, unless a crime has been committed against person or property and he/she has their day in court to face their accuser.

I see that your left wing is much bigger than your right.

Left wing? You are the one who ignores rights associated with property ownership. Those swarming across our border are trespassing on private property. And you appear to embrace that criminal activity.


JWK

[juleswin]

This is so laughable...so let me get this straight, We are being told that MAGA is in fact a gullible fool right? He's being manipulated and coerced on his domestic agenda AND his foreign policy? Well then, it seems that MAGA, the grand master chess player, is in fact not even a mediocre checker player...Right? So if this is true, why should anyone vote for this idiot to run the country? Things that make you go hmmm.

Says what you know about 3D chess. I read comics as a kid growing up and one of the comics I read was set in zombie apocalypse. This universe, the zombies weren't completely brainless and they recruited human agents to help then infiltrate the human communities. Well in one of the episodes, the protagonist defeated the main zombie faction by inviting it to enclave. This way when the zombies started rampaging on the citizens, the human agents were forced to work together with the rest of the humans and kill off the zombies.

It's a high risk high reward strategy. See why let your enemy undermine you from the outside when u can invite them in for them to undermine you from the inside? Your TDS might be preventing u from understanding why this strategy makes sense but give it time, Trump knows exactly what he is doing. :rolleyes:

[Cap]

The government (every president on both sides of the isle) wants a "wall".......but they REFUSE to eliminate free handouts to foreigners.

Kind of ironic, isn't it?


Ron Paul has said: "Good intentions almost always leads to bad consequences".

Hey, Trump would in essence have his own Mt. Rushmore. How cool is that?

[ATruepatriot]

I am not ignoring that. I am talking about how Trump's own empty promises and anti-immigration rhetoric have positively contributed to the surge of illegal immigration.

It is parallel to how Obama, just by being president and saying negative things about guns, contributed to a huge surge in gun sales. There is no denying that Obama's being president was hugely effective in putting more guns, especially AR-style guns, in American homes, as well as on the streets.

Both of these phenomena illustrate the unintended consequences that are bound to result any time government acts or threatens to act in some intervention in the marketplace.

I have been watching you argue this point and concept for a couple days now. And I understand the cause and effect residuals you are trying to propose with this. But you are conveniently ignoring the fact that Trump has been ham-stringed with lies every step of the way preventing him from keeping his promises. And that the Democrats and mainstream media have facilitated, promoted, and cheered on the illegal immigration leading to the invasion we have now. To blame this all on Trump's actions alone without also recognizing all the factors in the whole picture is a dishonest and deceptive spin.

[PAF]

Left wing? You are the one who ignores rights associated with property ownership. Those swarming across our border are trespassing on private property. And you appear to embrace that criminal activity.


JWK


There are still countless court battles going on since the Obama years over Eminent Domain. If ranchers and businesses want a wall, they can freely do so
on their own dime - NOT by tax payer money and forced government take-over.

Next up, once they are no longer termed "illegal", they will be granted free handouts, and minimum wage mandates set forth by the government - well, the businesses that are able to remain open as their rightful private property is controlled by the government/DHS/ICE, etc.

As far as criminal activity - nobody exceeds in that more than or own government - and you are supporting it - and it is costing me money.

I have listed a host of anti-liberty initiatives but instead of commenting on each and every one of them you make blanket statements about foreigners without due process.

Post #20 is of significance.

[Cap]

Says what you know about 3D chess. I read comics as a kid growing up and one of the comics I read was set in zombie apocalypse. This universe, the zombies weren't completely brainless and they recruited human agents to help then infiltrate the human communities. Well in one of the episodes, the protagonist defeated the main zombie faction by inviting it to enclave. This way when the zombies started rampaging on the citizens, the human agents were forced to work together with the rest of the humans and kill off the zombies.

It's a high risk high reward strategy. See why let your enemy undermine you from the outside when u can invite them in for them to undermine you from the inside? Your YES might be preventing u from understanding why this strategy males sense but give it time, Trump knows exactly what he is doing. :rolleyes:

That's gold there.

[PAF]

Hey, Trump would in essence have his own Mt. Rushmore. How cool is that?

Oh def! - on OUR tax dime!

I'm still out of + Rep for you.

[johnwk]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by johnwk http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=6793060#post6793060)
Left wing? You are the one who ignores rights associated with property ownership. Those swarming across our border are trespassing on private property. And you appear to embrace that criminal activity.


JWK





There are still countless court battles going on since the Obama years over Eminent Domain. If ranchers and businesses want a wall, they can freely do so
on their own dime - NOT by tax payer money and forced government take-over.

Next up, once they are no longer termed "illegal", they will be granted free handouts, and minimum wage mandates set forth by the government - well, the businesses that are able to remain open as their rightful private property is controlled by the government/DHS/ICE, etc.

As far as criminal activity - nobody exceeds in that more than or own government - and you are supporting it - and it is costing me money.

I have listed a host of anti-liberty initiatives but instead of commenting on each and every one of them you make blanket statements about foreigners without due process.

Post #20 is of significance.


That was not a very clever way to dodge the fact that the swarm of foreigners flooding across our southwest border are trespassing on private property. But hey, most libertarians embrace anarchy and reject the rule of law, and in this regard they are closely aligned with communists and socialists.


JWK

[Superfluous Man]

Left wing? You are the one who ignores rights associated with property ownership. Those swarming across our border are trespassing on private property.

Actually, no, it's you who ignores that.

I, and I'm certain PAF too, fully support the rights of private property owners to exclude from their own personal property the people you're talking about.

By the same token, we must support the rights of private property owners to welcome those same people onto their property if they so choose. If you support the government intervening to stop other Americans from welcoming the people you consider illegal immigrants onto their own personal property, whether as renters, employees, or guests, or to sell their property to those same people, at which point it would be their own property, then it is you who ignores the rights of property ownership.

[Superfluous Man]

I have been watching you argue this point and concept for a couple days now. And I understand the cause and effect residuals you are trying to propose with this. But you are conveniently ignoring the fact that Trump has been ham-stringed with lies every step of the way preventing him from keeping his promises. And that the Democrats and mainstream media have facilitated, promoted, and cheered on the illegal immigration leading to the invasion we have now. To blame this all on Trump's actions alone without also recognizing all the factors in the whole picture is a dishonest and deceptive spin.

Which promises? Keep in mind that his promises with respect to immigration have included many that are mutually contradictory, with some favoring more and others favoring less. Based on his promises, it's impossible to tell his actual agenda, unless it's by choosing to accept one group of promises as the real ones and discard others as things he didn't really mean.

Also, keep in mind that one of the things Trump attempted and was prevented from accomplishing, was to get Congress to legislate DACA. In 2017 it was Trump who wanted legislation that would allow him to continue DACA with the full support of the law and not as a mere executive order, and it was Congress who would not give him that.

Finally, I haven't blamed Trump alone. I have only insisted that Trump's contribution has resulted in more illegal immigration, not less. There would be less illegal immigration right now if Obama were still president, still enforcing DACA as an executive order, doing relatively little to impede illegal immigration, and not constantly talking about it and making would-be immigrants think they need to rush in before the gates close.

No amount of yeah-buts will change that fact.

I keep repeating it because it's not just important to realize for this issue, but also as an illustration of a more general principle about the counterproductivity of government interference in the market. There will always be unintended consequences, often ones that result in the very thing you're trying to stifle occurring with greater frequency, intensity, and danger.

[PAF]

That was not a very clever way to dodge the fact that the swarm of foreigners flooding across our southwest border are trespassing on private property. But hey, most libertarians embrace anarchy and reject the rule of law, and in this regard they are closely aligned with communists and socialists.


JWK

So by your blanket statement without supporting facts, you are telling me that you are indeed a big government statist.

Immigration was at an all time LOW for DECADES until Trump arrived on the scene and began spouting off where Obama could not succeed. Back when Obama was in office Republicans fought Eminent Domain tooth and nail and are still in courts today. Private Property Rights used to be a Republican platform, but not anymore.

You still refuse to address Post #20.

???

[PAF]

Actually, no, it's you who ignores that.

I, and I'm certain PAF too, fully support the rights of private property owners to exclude from their own personal property the people you're talking about.

By the same token, we must support the rights of private property owners to welcome those same people onto their property if they so choose. If you support the government intervening to stop other Americans from welcoming the people you consider illegal immigrants onto their own personal property, whether as renters, employees, or guests, or to sell their property to those same people, at which point it would be their own property, then it is you who ignores the rights of property ownership.


+ Rep

[Superfluous Man]

But hey, most libertarians embrace anarchy and reject the rule of law

You misunderstand what the rule of law is.

The rule of law demands that what the law requires of the ruler must be no different than what it requires of the commoner. For example, in order to support the rule of law, you must acknowledge that taxation is theft, since there can be no double standard by which an act that counts as theft when a common person does it would not be theft when agents of the state did it. Likewise, since it's wrong for me as an individual to use violence to prevent you from hiring an employee from another country who lacks paperwork that I demand they have as a prerequisite for working in this country, it must also be wrong for the government to do that. Likewise with all other laws.

So, in fact, to embrace anarchy is to uphold the rule of law, while to embrace statism is to reject it, and put in its place a double-standard that permits the state to do what is prohibited to common people.

[Cap]

You misunderstand what the rule of law is.

The rule of law demands that what the law requires of the ruler must be no different than what it requires of the commoner. For example, in order to support the rule of law, you must acknowledge that taxation is theft, since there can be no double standard by which an act that counts as theft when a common person does it would not be theft when agents of the state did it. Likewise, since it's wrong for me as an individual to use violence to prevent you from hiring an employee from another country who lacks paperwork that I demand they have as a prerequisite for working in this country, it must also be wrong for the government to do that. Likewise with all other laws.

So, in fact, to embrace anarchy is to uphold the rule of law, while to embrace statism is to reject it, and put in its place a double-standard that permits the state to do what is prohibited to common people.

I wonder if he heard that one going over his head?

[PAF]

You misunderstand what the rule of law is.

The rule of law demands that what the law requires of the ruler must be no different than what it requires of the commoner. For example, in order to support the rule of law, you must acknowledge that taxation is theft, since there can be no double standard by which an act that counts as theft when a common person does it would not be theft when agents of the state did it. Likewise, since it's wrong for me as an individual to use violence to prevent you from hiring an employee from another country who lacks paperwork that I demand they have as a prerequisite for working in this country, it must also be wrong for the government to do that. Likewise with all other laws.

So, in fact, to embrace anarchy is to uphold the rule of law, while to embrace statism is to reject it, and put in its place a double-standard that permits the state to do what is prohibited to common people.

Exactly and another + Rep.

He should study up on the Bill of Rights and the NAP.

The anti-federalists were right about the federal Constitution enslaving us. But at least if the Bill of Rights were fully supported, each and every one of them, we would all be better off than we are now.

[ATruepatriot]

Which promises? Keep in mind that his promises with respect to immigration have included many that are mutually contradictory, with some favoring more and others favoring less. Based on his promises, it's impossible to tell his actual agenda, unless it's by choosing to accept one group of promises as the real ones and discard others as things he didn't really mean.

Also, keep in mind that one of the things Trump attempted and was prevented from accomplishing, was to get Congress to legislate DACA. In 2017 it was Trump who wanted legislation that would allow him to continue DACA with the full support of the law and not as a mere executive order, and it was Congress who would not give him that.

Finally, I haven't blamed Trump alone. I have only insisted that Trump's contribution has resulted in more illegal immigration, not less. There would be less illegal immigration right now if Obama were still president, still enforcing DACA as an executive order, doing relatively little to impede illegal immigration, and not constantly talking about it and making would-be immigrants think they need to rush in before the gates close.

No amount of yeah-buts will change that fact.

I keep repeating it because it's not just important to realize for this issue, but also as an illustration of a more general principle about the counterproductivity of government interference in the market. There will always be unintended consequences, often ones that result in the very thing you're trying to stifle occurring with greater frequency, intensity, and danger.

I see you edited it as a second thought because the initial was all spin concerning the true chain of events and extortion that lead to those events. You are attempting to change history by twisting and omitting crucial facts. Give me a bit and I will show you in detail how you did this in this reply. Chores call...

[invisible]

So, is trump lying about his "border crisis" efforts, or is he merely not in control of his policies and administration?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?534227-Pence-to-offer-US-assistance-to-immigrants

US Vice President Mike Pence is set to offer on Tuesday new incentives to Venezuela's military to turn against President Nicolas Maduro, Reuters reported Monday, citing a senior administration official.

In a speech to the Americas Society at the US Department of State, Pence will also warn that Washington could soon sanction 25 additional magistrates on the Venezuelan supreme court, Reuters reported, citing the official on condition of anonymity.

In addition, the US vice president will also offer assistance for refugees who have fled Venezuela and an economic aid package on a political transition, according to Reuters.

How can trump be against immigrants, if his NWO foreign policy creates more of them, and then he wants to offer them "assistance" and "economic aid"? Unless trump has no control over his own policies and administration, he hires these people, signs off on everything they do, and can fire them all at will (except pence, of course).

[PAF]

So, is trump lying about his "border crisis" efforts, or is he merely not in control of his policies and administration?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?534227-Pence-to-offer-US-assistance-to-immigrants


How can trump be against immigrants, if his NWO foreign policy creates more of them, and then he wants to offer them "assistance" and "economic aid"? Unless trump has no control over his own policies and administration, he hires these people, signs off on everything they do, and can fire them all at will (except pence, of course).


It is called Party Rhetoric. What one administration can not accomplished, the next administration changes the jargon and gets folks on board - well, the ones who have no core principle.

The goal of the NWO is by whatever method necessary, including siphoning them in (by way of wall "entry points") in order to process them, promising refugees economic aid packages, etc. But in NO WAY do you ever stop free handouts on the tax payer dime. EVERYBODY must be documented and registered - foreign AND domestic.


No, the NWO/our government, democrats AND republicans are not against immigrants. They are against "illegals" because they are not eligible for free handouts, not mandated to receive government mandated minimum wage, and certainly do not Fund the Fed via taxation.

If our government truly wanted to fix the problem, all they would have to do is stop documenting and giving out freebies. But those are absolutely OFF the table.

[Cap]

It is called Party Rhetoric. What one administration can not accomplished, the next administration changes the jargon and gets folks on board - well, the ones who have no core principle.

The goal of the NWO is by whatever method necessary, including siphoning them in (by way of wall "entry points") in order to process them, promising refugees economic aid packages, etc. But in NO WAY do you ever stop free handouts on the tax payer dime. EVERYBODY must be documented and registered - foreign AND domestic.


No, the NWO/our government, democrats AND republicans are not against immigrants. They are against "illegals" because they are not eligible for free handouts, not mandated to receive government mandated minimum wage, and certainly do not Fund the Fed via taxation.

If our government truly wanted to fix the problem, all they would have to do is stop documenting and giving out freebies. But those are absolutely OFF the table.

This is exactly right. I could even see MAGA, when being asked to get on board, say..."Hey, I'm yer guy".

[juleswin]

Something just occurred to me a few minutes ago. Trump is very familiar with boxing culture. He is friends with Don Kingn Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson, the goes to the matches and even hosts some events at his venues. This means that he must be familiar with the rope a dope strategy used my Ali to defeat foreman. So maybe his strategy is to let the neocons and establishment use him for 11 rounds and then in the final round d after the neocons have been tired of using him, turn around and defeat them in round 12.

I have no idea how that insane strategy worked but it worked perfectly for Ali so why can't it work for Trump?

[johnwk]

You misunderstand what the rule of law is.
.


The rule of law, as agreed upon, is our federal and individual state constitutions …. which anarchists seem to reject, especially with regard to rights associated with property ownership and foreigners trespassing upon property.

JWK

[Superfluous Man]

The rule of law, as agreed upon, is our federal and individual state constitutions

Like I said, you misunderstand what the rule of law is.

[johnwk]

Like I said, you misunderstand what the rule of law is.

Wrong. I just don't agree with your anarchist rule of no law.


:rolleyes:

JWK

[RonZeplin]

The Trump/Graham push for open borders, amnesty and millions of newly minted US Citizen socialist voters.


https://youtu.be/llFJKIG_e4Q

Millions of illegal alien invaders have already rallied to President Trump's welcoming call of, A Bill Of Love. The caravans are rolling in.

[PAF]

The Trump/Graham push for open borders, amnesty and millions of newly minted US Citizen socialist voters.


https://youtu.be/llFJKIG_e4Q

Millions of illegal alien invaders have already rallied to President Trump's welcoming call of, A Bill Of Love. The caravans are rolling in.

All I heard graham do was vomit out tougher laws, more government, DHS, military, restrictions, pro-wall, which documents more into the FedGov, etc. I’ll bet that “package” is a couple of hundred pages.

Not once did he mention End Incentives because just that alone would stop just about all of them.

Oh, I forgot, graham is a democrat. Because not once did he mention saving money, protect Private Property and Contract Rights, or a single one of the Bill of Rights.

[ATruepatriot]

Keep in mind that his promises with respect to immigration have included many that are mutually contradictory, with some favoring more and others favoring less. Based on his promises, it's impossible to tell his actual agenda, unless it's by choosing to accept one group of promises as the real ones and discard others as things he didn't really mean.

The first narrative deception and spin is the left trying to redefine the term "immigration". They are omitting the fact that legal immigration and illegal immigration are two totally different issues to be discussed separately and addressed separately. They lump them together as one concept and call it immigration and view the total as legal. Now they are even changing this deception on the fly and redefining ALL illegal immigration as "asylum" when this is not true, Two totally different issues to be addressed separately. They change the definitions and narrative concerning the three different classifications to fit the agenda when they scrutinize Trumps actions. If he says he is against illegal immigration they accuse him of being against ALL immigration and asylum. If he says he supports legal immigration they accuse him of flip flopping on immigration because to them they are supposed to be considered one and the same by their rules. In this way they have wrongfully taken three separate lightbulbs that have three different switches and tied them together on one on/off switch. like you did here claiming contradiction.

Now I will grant you the idea that he changed his stance on wanting to increase and reform the process for legal immigration, he did indeed want to. But he was given no choice, because he has been obstructed at every turn to DO ANYTHING PERIOD good or bad the advantageous opportunity to do that has passed. Now because of the sheer number of people coming in illegally he had to regroup and review if even legal immigration is wise now at this point and change his stance and had to also restrict this too. Damned if does and damned if he doesn't. Even if he tries to do something right it is wrong in the narrative handed to the ignorant sheep. He is obstructed tooth and nail and unable to accomplish what he wants to get done and then he is called a liar because he didn't keep his promise to do it, Seriously? how can he? Reality is even Ron Paul would have encountered the very same situation and not been able to do all those "Miracle things" everyone thought he was going to do if he got elected. Fact.

Also, keep in mind that one of the things Trump attempted and was prevented from accomplishing, was to get Congress to legislate DACA. In 2017 it was Trump who wanted legislation that would allow him to continue DACA with the full support of the law and not as a mere executive order, and it was Congress who would not give him that.

Trump wants a wall, the democrats tell him "not until we discuss DACA!". So he offers to compromise with a deal on DACA, Then they flip flop and reverse their narrative and refuse to discuss it period then blame him for the impasse and call him the flip flopper. Reverse spin and outright lie... He made a good faith effort to compromise and was turned down even though that is what they claimed they wanted. The Media jumped on it with "look he is a liar! He wants DACA!". No... he was extorted into trying and make a compromise with the hard-heads who then flipped anyways.

https://dailycaller.com/2019/03/07/trump-supports-legal-immigration-jobs/

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/09/daca-deal-or-no-deal-trump-democrats-dreamers/539784/

Finally, I haven't blamed Trump alone. I have only insisted that Trump's contribution has resulted in more illegal immigration, not less. There would be less illegal immigration right now if Obama were still president, still enforcing DACA as an executive order, doing relatively little to impede illegal immigration, and not constantly talking about it and making would-be immigrants think they need to rush in before the gates close.

No amount of yeah-buts will change that fact.

I keep repeating it because it's not just important to realize for this issue, but also as an illustration of a more general principle about the counterproductivity of government interference in the market. There will always be unintended consequences, often ones that result in the very thing you're trying to stifle occurring with greater frequency, intensity, and danger.

If there would have been no deception, spin, lies, and backstabbing that hindered him for over two years, he could have moved on it with enough drive and conviction it would have intimidated those who are coming now. And if the left had not purposely promoted and backed these caravans they would never have happened. There are two sides to every story and what I see is a whole lot of fact hiding and only one side of the story being recognized.

[johnwk]

Millions of illegal alien invaders have already rallied to President Trump's welcoming call of, A Bill Of Love. The caravans are rolling in.

The call of "Love" came from Federal, Fifth Column judges, who have repeatedly blocked Trump from attempting to deal with an ongoing invasion of our borders.


JWK

[johnwk]

[B]Keep in mind that his promises with respect to immigration have included .... snipped for brevity

And what is your proposed solution to the 35 year old and ongoing invasion of our borders?

JWK

[ATruepatriot]

And what is your proposed solution to the 35 year old and ongoing invasion of our borders?

JWK

Those are not my words... I was replying to those words from the earlier reply in the thread by Superfluous Man. His are in bold in my reply.

[RonZeplin]

The call of "Love" came from Federal, Fifth Column judges, who have repeatedly blocked Trump from attempting to deal with an ongoing invasion of our borders.


JWK

President Trump is a genuine Reconquista Republican like Ronald Reagan who signed the first GOP amnesty and George W. Bush who tried for another amnesty and failed..

http://www.texemarrs.com/images/bush_waves_mexican_flag.gif
George W. Bush 2004 presidential campaign.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAqZr0jer7g

President Trump invites caravans of illegal alien invaders to come to the USA for Bill of Love amnesty.

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/160505193958-eric-trump-cinco-de-mayo-taco-bowl-tweet-sot-erin-00001029-exlarge-169.jpg

[Swordsmyth]

President Trump is a genuine Reconquista Republican like Ronald Reagan who signed the first GOP amnesty and George W. Bush who tried for another amnesty and failed..

http://www.texemarrs.com/images/bush_waves_mexican_flag.gif
George W. Bush 2004 presidential campaign.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAqZr0jer7g

President Trump invites caravans of illegal alien invaders to come to the USA for Bill of Love amnesty.

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/160505193958-eric-trump-cinco-de-mayo-taco-bowl-tweet-sot-erin-00001029-exlarge-169.jpg

Trump has done much to combat the invasion.

[RonZeplin]

Trump has done much to combat the invasion.

Millions of Republicans voted for Trump because he loves Taco Bowls and cheap Illegal Alien Invaders more than Hillary.

Cheap votes & cheap illegal alien employees that will do the jobs that American's won't for $4.25 an hour. Once they get Amnesty, US citizenship and a pay raise, that will encourage millions of new low wage Illegal Alien Invaders to come to the USA.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuSpJ54RluM

[Swordsmyth]

Millions of Republicans voted for Trump because he loves Taco Bowls and cheap Illegal Alien Invaders more than Hillary.

Cheap votes & cheap illegal alien employees that will do the jobs that American's won't for $4.25 an hour. Once they get Amnesty, US citizenship and a pay raise, that will encourage millions of new low wage Illegal Alien Invaders to come to the USA.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuSpJ54RluM
Bunk, he has done more to fight the invasion than any President in your lifetime, your empty assertion to the contrary are worthless.

[RonZeplin]

Bunk, he has done more to fight the invasion than any President in your lifetime, your empty assertion to the contrary are worthless.

Wrong again, President ike Eisenhower ordered Operation Wetback, wherein illegal alien Braceros who had overstayed their visas were loaded on ships and deported far down into Mexico to Puerto Vallarta.


Operation Wetback (1954)

Implementation and tactics

Operation Wetback was a system of tactical control and cooperation within the U.S. Border Patrol and alongside the Mexican government.[28] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback#cite_note-28) Planning between the INS, led by Gen. Joseph Swing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_May_Swing) as appointed by President Eisenhower, and the Mexican government began in early 1954 while the program was formally announced in May 1954.[29] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback#cite_note-29) Harlon Carter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlon_Carter), then head of the Border Patrol, was a leader of Operation Wetback.[30] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback#cite_note-FOOTNOTEAssociated_Press1954-30) On May 17, command teams of 12 Border Patrol agents, buses, planes, and temporary processing stations began locating, processing, and deporting Mexicans who had illegally entered the United States. A total of 750 immigration and border patrol officers and investigators; 300 jeeps, cars and buses; and seven airplanes were allocated for the operation.[31] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback#cite_note-31) Teams were focused on quick processing, as planes were able to coordinate with ground efforts and quickly deport people into Mexico.[32] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback#cite_note-ngai156-32) Those deported were handed off to Mexican officials, who in turn moved them into central Mexico where there were many labor opportunities.[33] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback#cite_note-33) While the operation included the cities of Los Angeles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles), San Francisco (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco), and Chicago (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago), its main targets were border areas in Texas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas) and California (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California).[32] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback#cite_note-ngai156-32)

Overall, there were 1,074,277 "returns", defined as "confirmed movement of an inadmissible or deportable alien out of the United States not based on an order of removal"[34] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback#cite_note-34) in the first year of Operation Wetback. This included many illegal immigrants who fled to Mexico fearing arrest; over half a million from Texas alone.[35] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback#cite_note-35) The total number of immigration enforcement actions would fall to just 242,608 in 1955, and would continuously decline by year until 1962, when there was a slight rise in apprehended workers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback#Implementation_and_tactics

http://www.chelmsfordgop.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/i-like-ike-button-peace.jpg

[Swordsmyth]

Wrong again, President ike Eisenhower ordered Operation Wetback, wherein illegal alien Braceros who had overstayed their visas were loaded on ships and deported far down into Mexico to Puerto Vallarta.
I didn't know you were that old but Trump has done more than any President since and in the face of worse laws and judicial interference.

[TheCount]

No

[RonZeplin]

I didn't know you were that old but Trump has done more than any President since and in the face of worse laws and judicial interference.

I'm old enough to where your Fake News revisionist history, White House press release propaganda doesn't work on me.

Not an ignorant rube like your average America-last, Trump worshiping cultist. Your malarkey bounces off of me, like bullets off of Superman. :trophy:

[Swordsmyth]

I'm old enough to where your Fake News revisionist history, White House press release propaganda doesn't work on me.

Not an ignorant rube like your average America-last, Trump worshiping cultist. Your malarkey bounces off of me, like bullets off of Superman. :trophy:
You're old enough to be responsible for ignoring all the things Trump has done to secure the border.

[Swordsmyth]

I'm old enough to where your Fake News revisionist history, White House press release propaganda doesn't work on me.

Not an ignorant rube like your average America-last, Trump worshiping cultist. Your malarkey bounces off of me, like bullets off of Superman. :trophy:
You are also old enough to be rersponsible for continuing to use that deceptively edited quote from me in your signature.

It fits right in with the rest of your dishonesty regarding Trump's record and the obstacles he faces.

[RonZeplin]

You're old enough to be responsible for ignoring all the things Trump has done to secure the border.

https://i2.wp.com/cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2016/07/05/a9d3aa4f-00a1-404e-908f-14c75b3649e2/resize/620x465/9f34938fc68bd81e51e8ef2ff7755b80/gettyimages-539414724.jpg

We Minutemen defeated dubya's amnesty in '06. Minutemen, other Patriots and the Bundy's defeated the FED tyranny machine in NV & OR. You Lindsey Graham/Donnell Trump/Diane Fineswine amnesty reconquistas will be defeated by American Patriots once again too.

No amnesty for your socialist Dream Student/Guest Worker Trump NWO cuck voters!

[Swordsmyth]

https://i2.wp.com/cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2016/07/05/a9d3aa4f-00a1-404e-908f-14c75b3649e2/resize/620x465/9f34938fc68bd81e51e8ef2ff7755b80/gettyimages-539414724.jpg

We Minutemen defeated dubya's amnesty in '06. Minutemen, other Patriots and the Bundy's defeated the FED tyranny machine in NV & OR. You Lindsey Graham/Donnell Trump/Diane Fineswine amnesty reconquistas will be defeated by American Patriots once again too.

No amnesty for your socialist Dream Student/Guest Worker Trump NWO cuck voters!
More empty rhetoric.

You ignore the facts just like you ignored me calling you out on your dishonest deceptively edited quote.

[johnwk]

Those are not my words... I was replying to those words from the earlier reply in the thread by Superfluous Man. His are in bold in my reply.

Sorry about that.


JWK

[ATruepatriot]

Sorry about that.


JWK

:)

[Cap]

Millions of Republicans voted for Trump because he loves Taco Bowls and cheap Illegal Alien Invaders more than Hillary.

Cheap votes & cheap illegal alien employees that will do the jobs that American's won't for $4.25 an hour. Once they get Amnesty, US citizenship and a pay raise, that will encourage millions of new low wage Illegal Alien Invaders to come to the USA.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuSpJ54RluMThe cognitive dissonance is strong with the Trumpskyites.

[nikcers]

Either Trump could nuke the border if he wanted to or he has to ask to use the bathroom I am not sure which one sometimes.

[enhanced_deficit]

To be devil's advocate, main moles have been actually kicked out already:

https://images.dailykos.com/images/330733/large/Bannon-Sessions.jpg?1479786764


Another mole of criticism Ann Coulter has also been banned from White House, CPAC 2019 and probably Foxnews too:

Ann Coulter: Trump Failing. Don't ask me to lie about it (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?531757-Ann-Coulter-Trump-Failing-Don-t-ask-me-to-lie-about-it&)

Ann Coulter: Trump by the Numbers (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?532470-Ann-Coulter-Trump-by-the-Numbers&)



Could it be you're mistaking a feature as a bug.





Related

It appears leadership is working on a multi-prong strategy and is open-minded keeping in view human rights and diversity:



MH1BGA (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?527029-Trump-I-want-to-scrap-all-H1B-visas&p=6733646&viewfull=1#post6733646)

Adelson: Let’s Pass Immigration Reform (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?454313-Adelson-Let%92s-Pass-Immigration-Reform&p=5570151&viewfull=1#post5570151)

https://www.gob.mx/cms/uploads/press/main_image/153934/post_post_condecoracion-aguila-azteca-a-jared-k-.jpg
Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto awards White House senior adviser Jared Kushner the Order of the Aztec Eagle, the highest Mexican honor awarded to foreigners.

Jared Kushner is taking over efforts to increase legal immigration
Eric Lutz
April 3, 2019
According to Politico, Kushner has been working behind the scenes on a plan to expand some forms of legal immigration in an effort to “increase the number of low- and high-skilled workers” in the country.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019...er-immigration (https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/04/stephen-miller-power-over-trump-is-about-to-be-tested-jared-kushner-immigration)

Transgender Women from LGBTQ Caravan Granted Asylum (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?529745-Caravan-3&p=6792563&viewfull=1#post6792563)

Pence to offer US assistance to immigrants (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?534227-Pence-to-offer-US-assistance-to-immigrants&)

[johnwk]

.

See Court says Trump can continue policy requiring asylum-seekers to remain in Mexico (https://thehill.com/latino/442625-court-rules-trump-admin-can-continue-policy-requiring-asylum-seekers-remain-in-mexico)

05/07/2019


”The panel of judges wrote in the opinion that the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) had shown that it was likely to suffer irreparable harm if the policy was halted because it “takes off the table one of the few congressionally authorized measures available to process the approximately 2,000 migrants who are currently arriving at the Nation’s southern border on a daily basis.”

The article notes 2,000 migrants are currently arriving at our border!

JWK

It was May of 2019 when an ongoing invasion of America’s borders swelled to tens of thousands a month, reasonable force was not used to defend the borders of the United States, and America’s domestic enemies ___ socialists, communists, and Fifth Column activists ___ continued with their obstruction against securing America’s borders which led to the downfall of a once free nation.

[enhanced_deficit]

Cotton turning on MAGA too?

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/06/tom-cotton-foreign-workers-1306065