Why are the Bolsheviks pushing for felon's voting restoration?

[Anti Federalist]

Simple:

They tend to vote for Bolsheviks.


Marc Meredith, PhD, Assistant Professor of Political Science and Business Economics at the University of Pennsylvania, and Michael Morse, Research Fellow at Stanford Law School, stated the following in their Nov. 18, 2013 article "Do Voting Rights Notification Laws Increase Ex-Felon Turnout?," published in the Annals of the American Academy of Political Science:

"[In New York] ex-felons who are registered overwhelmingly register as Democrats. Of those discharge records that match to at least one voter file record, 61.5 percent match only to Democratic voter records. In contrast, 25.5 percent match only to voter records with no affiliation or an affiliation with a minor party, while 9 percent match only to Republican voter records...

[R]egistered ex-felons in New Mexico tend to be overwhelmingly Democrat: 51.9 percent match to only registered Democrats, 18.9 percent match to only registered Republicans, 21.7 percent match to only individuals registered neither as Democrats nor Republicans, and 7.5 percent match to multiple individuals who affiliate with different parties"

https://felonvoting.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000662

[nobody's_hero]

We just need to smile more. We vote hard. Why don't we smile hard?

[Swordsmyth]

Socialism/communism is a manifestation of criminal tendencies, it is only logical that criminals will favor such policies that give them "free" stuff by stealing from everyone else.

Criminality should disqualify you from voting because voting is one of the most dangerous activities on the planet and the criminal has demonstrated his flawed character.

[RJB]

The same reason they flood the country with illegal immigrants, want to get rid of the electoral college, call opposing viewpoints racist, misogynistic, etc., etc., etc.

[Dr.3D]

If you ask them, they will tell you, they are trying to save our 'democracy.'

[jct74]

Well it's the right thing to do, I'm not sure if that's their main reason for supporting it though. To me it doesn't really matter what their motivation is for supporting it.

[Anti Globalist]

We just need to smile more. We vote hard. Why don't we smile hard?
A combination of smiling hard and voting hard will do just the trick.

[Anti Globalist]

As to the OP, you don't see a lot of felons voting for Republicans.

[Anti Federalist]

As to the OP, you don't see a lot of felons voting for Republicans.

Well, we had discussed this topic and I wasn't able to come up with anything that indicated, with some form of "hard" data, just which way felons aligned.

This survey suggests a leftist alignment.

[Swordsmyth]

Well it's the right thing to do, I'm not sure if that's their main reason for supporting it though. To me it doesn't really matter what their motivation is for supporting it.
How is it the right thing to do to allow criminals to use government to steal from me?

[Anti Federalist]

Well it's the right thing to do, I'm not sure if that's their main reason for supporting it though. To me it doesn't really matter what their motivation is for supporting it.

Voting is not a "right".

I'm much more inclined to remove a felon's 2nd Amendment restrictions, than afford them a vote, as I am opposed to anything that lets more idiot AmeriKunts anywhere close to a voting booth.

[Swordsmyth]

Voting is not a "right".

I'm much more inclined to remove a felon's 2nd Amendment restrictions, than afford them a vote, as I am opposed to anything that lets more idiot AmeriKunts anywhere close to a voting booth.
+Rep

Even a criminal has a right to defend themselves but criminals do not have a right to set the rules of society.

[euphemia]

They are just not right. Most of them would not be in prison at all if libertarians had their way.

[Swordsmyth]

They are just not right. Most of them would not be in prison at all if libertarians had their way.
That is debatable.

Many of them would not but I do not believe that most of them would not.

[Swordsmyth]

Cher attacks Bernie Sanders for wanting to let Murderers, rapists and other scum vote (https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/cher-questions-bernie-sanders-boston-bomber-right-vote)

[Anti Federalist]

Cher attacks Bernie Sanders for wanting to let Murderers, rapists and other scum vote (https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/cher-questions-bernie-sanders-boston-bomber-right-vote)

LOL...I saw that earlier.

Pretty bad when you've lurched so far left that you lose Cher.

[Swordsmyth]

LOL...I saw that earlier.

Pretty bad when you've lurched so far left that you lose Cher.
As conditions get worse some people will actually learn and shift rightward.


Most will not, for the most part people do not change.

I'm not sure yet if Cher is shifting or if the left has just gone so far overboard that they left her behind as you suggest.

[ATruepatriot]

LOL...I saw that earlier.

Pretty bad when you've lurched so far left that you lose Cher.

Something definitely burst her utopian fantasy bubble... lol

[Anti Federalist]

We just need to smile more. We vote hard. Why don't we smile hard?

I learned this trick at Re-Neducation Camp

http://i.imgur.com/hAffT97.jpg

[Danke]

Cher attacks Bernie Sanders for wanting to let Murderers, rapists and other scum vote (https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/cher-questions-bernie-sanders-boston-bomber-right-vote)

Bernie Sanders Vows To Round Up Remaining ISIS Members, Allow Them To Vote (https://babylonbee.com/news/bernie-sanders-vows-to-round-up-remaining-isis-members-allow-them-to-vote)
April 23rd, 2019
https://babylonbee.com/img/articles/article-4078-1.jpg



U.S.—During a CNN town hall event Monday evening, presidential candidate Bernie Sanders came out tough on terror, vowing to do what was needed to round up the remaining members of ISIS in order to give them the right to vote in US elections.

"As president, I will do everything in my power to hunt down each and every one of these terrorist scumbags, bring them to the U.S., and allow them to vote in our elections," he said sternly, drawing applause from his supporters. "We believe in democracy, right? We believe in democracy and the right to vote, and if that means I have to use every resource at my disposal to make sure ISIS makes it to the polls, I will do so."
"This is America, after all," he said, wildly flailing his hands about before aides rushed to him and gave him his meds to calm him down.

After being pressed, Sanders admitted that part of the reason for the policy is that he's "pretty confident" ISIS will vote for Democrats such as himself.

[Swordsmyth]

Bernie Sanders Vows To Round Up Remaining ISIS Members, Allow Them To Vote (https://babylonbee.com/news/bernie-sanders-vows-to-round-up-remaining-isis-members-allow-them-to-vote)
April 23rd, 2019
https://babylonbee.com/img/articles/article-4078-1.jpg



U.S.—During a CNN town hall event Monday evening, presidential candidate Bernie Sanders came out tough on terror, vowing to do what was needed to round up the remaining members of ISIS in order to give them the right to vote in US elections.

"As president, I will do everything in my power to hunt down each and every one of these terrorist scumbags, bring them to the U.S., and allow them to vote in our elections," he said sternly, drawing applause from his supporters. "We believe in democracy, right? We believe in democracy and the right to vote, and if that means I have to use every resource at my disposal to make sure ISIS makes it to the polls, I will do so."
"This is America, after all," he said, wildly flailing his hands about before aides rushed to him and gave him his meds to calm him down.

After being pressed, Sanders admitted that part of the reason for the policy is that he's "pretty confident" ISIS will vote for Democrats such as himself.


LOL

[Swordsmyth]

What does it say about the modern-day Democrat Party that @BernieSanders (https://twitter.com/BernieSanders?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) and @KamalaHarris (https://twitter.com/KamalaHarris?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) seem more concerned about giving mass murderers like the Boston Marathon Bomber voting rights, than protecting the civil rights of law abiding American citizens who legally own guns?
— Donald Trump Jr. (@DonaldJTrumpJr) April 23, 2019 (https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1120666176810516482?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)

[Swordsmyth]

We should not be surprised that those on the Left look upon murderers, robbers, and rapists as just another potential voting bloc that they can count on to keep them in power, but Reason magazine, a libertarian publication that often runs some good investigative articles, also favors letting imprisoned convicts cast a ballot. The article asserts that there are “plenty of people who are in prison who deserve to be free. Don’t they deserve to have a voice in American democracy as well?”
Sadly, Reason misses the point just as much as the left-wing Daily Beast. The purpose of government is not to ensure that the will of the majority prevails, but instead is to ensure that our rights to life, liberty, and property are protected — and many of those inside prison walls are who we need to be protected from. Both publications use the word “democracy” to describe our system of government.
Democracy simply means that the people rule. But as noted by Alexis de Tocqueville, we can suffer under the “tyranny of the majority” just as much as from an oligarchy or a monarchy. Just because the majority votes to take our property — simply because they want it, we have it, and they do not — does not make it morally correct.
Our Constitution created a republic, not a democracy. A democracy, as it has been bluntly put, is like two wolves and one sheep deciding what’s for dinner. If we were a democracy, then the Bill of Rights would be redundant — indeed the entire Constitution would be redundant.
John Locke argued that criminals broke an implicit social contract. Such a rule-breakers should lose their right to participate in the making of the rules, because, after all, rule-breakers are the reason we even have government to protect our God-given rights. Locke’s social contract theory was the foundation for the Declaration of Independence, which declares, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by the Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.”
Note that the Declaration clearly states the purpose of government: to secure our rights. Government’s “just” powers are derived from the consent of the governed. In other words, the “just” powers of the government are those that carry out the purpose of government, i.e., to secure our basic rights. Even the majority must exercise only those powers of government that are just.
We do not create government so the majority can take our property via a vote. If one person wants to practice a religion, that person should be allowed to freely practice that religion, regardless what the majority think, unless the religion infringes on another person’s rights. Yet, under “democracy,” the majority can dictate the religious practices of the minority.

More at: https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/32104-sanders-push-for-imprisoned-felons-to-vote-raises-questions-about-government

[jkr]

reinforcement$?

[Suzanimal]

Well it's the right thing to do, I'm not sure if that's their main reason for supporting it though. To me it doesn't really matter what their motivation is for supporting it.

I agree.


They are just not right. Most of them would not be in prison at all if libertarians had their way.

If I had my way, nonviolent drug felons wouldn't be in prison.

[Anti Federalist]

Democracy simply means that the people rule. But as noted by Alexis de Tocqueville, we can suffer under the “tyranny of the majority” just as much as from an oligarchy or a monarchy. Just because the majority votes to take our property — simply because they want it, we have it, and they do not — does not make it morally correct.

Another sign of how upside down things have become, when the JBS has to lecture Reason about democracies and republics and property rights.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gudxXs85R_w

[Swordsmyth]

Another sign of how upside down things have become, when the JBS has to lecture Reason about democracies and republics and property rights.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gudxXs85R_w


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQEYkVWNtXg

[Swordsmyth]

I agree.
Then maybe you can answer my question:

How is it the right thing to do to allow criminals to use government to steal from me?



If I had my way, nonviolent drug felons wouldn't be in prison.
I agree but many of them would have gone into some other actually criminal line of work and ended up as felons anyway.

I am all for total restoration of rights to a pristine state for fake crimes but allowing actual felons to vote WHILE INCARCERATED is beyond insanity, I am against letting actual felons vote after they get out because they have demonstrated their moral turpitude.

[RonZeplin]

Well it's the right thing to do, I'm not sure if that's their main reason for supporting it though. To me it doesn't really matter what their motivation is for supporting it.

+rep

[pcosmar]

Well it's the right thing to do, I'm not sure if that's their main reason for supporting it though. To me it doesn't really matter what their motivation is for supporting it.

Yup..
and for clarification,, I am not for voting rights while in Prison under conviction..
Pre conviction,,, awaiting trial. (assumed Innocent) They should be able to vote..

and at the end of sentence.. and I am in Favor of FULL Restoration of Rights on completion.. and that doesn't happen.

[pcosmar]

I agree but many of them would have gone into some other actually criminal line of work and ended up as felons anyway.


SO FULL Of $HIT

Why are you Here?

[Swordsmyth]

+rep

Then maybe you can answer my question:

How is it the right thing to do to allow criminals to use government to steal from me?

[RonZeplin]

I agree.



If I had my way, nonviolent drug felons wouldn't be in prison.

+rep

[pcosmar]

Then maybe you can answer my question:

How is it the right thing to do to allow criminals to use government to steal from me?

Because you VOTE.

[Suzanimal]

Then maybe you can answer my question:

How is it the right thing to do to allow criminals to use government to steal from me?



I agree but many of them would have gone into some other actually criminal line of work and ended up as felons anyway.

I am all for total restoration of rights to a pristine state for fake crimes but allowing actual felons to vote WHILE INCARCERATED is beyond insanity, I am against letting actual felons vote after they get out because they have demonstrated their moral turpitude.

As opposed to people who haven't been convicted stealing from you? Guess what? We're all felons whether we know or not or whether or not we've been caught. Are you sure you've never committed a felony? I'm pretty sure I have.

Personally, I'm offended by anyone who wants to steal from me whether they've been convicted of a crime or not. As a matter of fact, at least an armed robber has the balls to do themselves instead of being a fucking coward and hiding behind an anonymous ballot cupcake.

[Swordsmyth]

Because you VOTE.
LOL

Voting does not justify being robbed by criminals using government.

[Swordsmyth]

As opposed to people who haven't been convicted stealing from you? Guess what? We're all felons whether we know or not or whether or not we've been caught. Are you sure you've never committed a felony? I'm pretty sure I have.

Personally, I'm offended by anyone who wants to steal from me whether they've been convicted of a crime or not. As a matter of fact, at least an armed robber has the balls to do themselves instead of being a $#@!ing coward and hiding behind an anonymous ballot cupcake.
Not everyone has committed a real crime, those in prison for committing real crimes have, since they have demonstrated criminal tendencies it is no surprise that they vote for criminal government policies to do their stealing for them, allowing them to vote gives more power to the most criminal politicians to steal from everyone.

Why should criminals be allowed to vote to use government to steal from me?

What you advocate leads to an increase in government theft.

[pcosmar]

LOL

Voting does not justify being robbed by criminals using government.

The Government is Criminal,, and you invite it.

Tax is Theft and You allow it.

And you know absolutely NOTHING about the Prisons you speak of, nor the Humans Imprisoned there.

[Swordsmyth]

The Government is Criminal,, and you invite it.
Nonsense.
And even if it was true that is not a justification or a reason that criminals should be allowed to vote to use the government to steal from me.

[pcosmar]

Nonsense.
And even if it was true that is not a justification or a reason that criminals should be allowed to vote to use the government to steal from me.

You shouldn't be allowed to use the Government to Steal From Me.

but there you are.

[Anti Federalist]

Yup..
and for clarification,, I am not for voting rights while in Prison under conviction..
Pre conviction,,, awaiting trial. (assumed Innocent) They should be able to vote..

and at the end of sentence.. and I am in Favor of FULL Restoration of Rights on completion.. and that doesn't happen.

It's my understanding, unless I'm reading something wrong, that is what Sanders and the other assorted Bolshies are in favor of.

Voting privileges for currently incarcerated people.

[Swordsmyth]

You shouldn't be allowed to use the Government to Steal From Me.

but there you are.
I don't, but if you are so committed to anarchy then why do you want anyone to vote?

You just want to create chaos out of the misguided belief that something better than we have can arise from the ashes, or maybe you just want to create chaos:


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by pcosmar http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=6775743#post6775743)

Looking forward to watching it BURN.

[Swordsmyth]

It's my understanding, unless I'm reading something wrong, that is what Sanders and the other assorted Bolshies are in favor of.

Voting privileges for currently incarcerated people.
YES, that is EXACTLY what they are proposing.

[pcosmar]

https://www.prisonfellowship.org/2016/07/70-baptized-missouri-prison/#

https://www.innocenceproject.org/

Capitalizing on Mass Incarceration: U.S. Growth in Private Prisons
https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/capitalizing-on-mass-incarceration-u-s-growth-in-private-prisons/

[pcosmar]

I don't, but if you are so committed to anarchy then why do you want anyone to vote?


I am Not committed to Anarchy. I am Committed to God.

and yes,, I am patiently waiting for Judgement..

To watch this corrupted mess BURN. because He promised it would not be a Flood next time.

[Suzanimal]

Not everyone has committed a real crime, those in prison for committing real crimes have, since they have demonstrated criminal tendencies it is no surprise that they vote for criminal government policies to do their stealing for them, allowing them to vote gives more power to the most criminal politicians to steal from everyone.

Why should criminals be allowed to vote to use government to steal from me?

What you advocate leads to an increase in government theft.

Why should anyone be allowed to use the government to steal from me?

Since felons haven't been voting I can't say what they're going to do BUT I can reasonably guess the vast majority of "honest" folk have no problem stealing from me.


Not everyone has committed a real crime, those in prison for committing real crimes have

You sure about that? I'm fairly certain there are a lot of people voting who deserve to be in prison, a lot in prison who don't deserve to be there, and a lot who commit crimes every day and are blissfully unaware they are criminals.


Why should criminals be allowed to vote to use government to steal from me?

How do you know that's how they're going to vote? I imagine most would vote to legalize weed and that alone would be a huge savings to taxpayers.

[Anti Federalist]

How do you know that's how they're going to vote? I imagine most would vote to legalize weed and that alone would be a huge savings to taxpayers.

That's why I started the thread.

There isn't much data out there, but what I could find indicates that ex-felons would overwhelmingly vote leftist.

The Bolsheviks are doing this not because of a love for freedom.

It's another solid voting bloc for them.

That's all.

If the jails were full of fatwa nose thumbers like Martin Winterkorn, the Bolshies would let them rot, with nary a thought.

[Suzanimal]

That's why I started the thread.

There isn't much data out there, but what I could find indicates that ex-felons would overwhelmingly vote leftist.

The Bolsheviks are doing this not because of a love for freedom.

It's another solid voting bloc for them.

That's all.

If the jails were full of fatwa nose thumbers like Martin Winterkorn, the Bolshies would let them rot, with nary a thought.

Out of curiosity, do you recall if the stats consider legalizing weed leftist?



If the jails were full of fatwa nose thumbers like Martin Winterkorn, the Bolshies would let them rot, with nary a thought.

Irwin Schiff (RIP) came to mind when I saw this thread.

[RonZeplin]

Then maybe you can answer my question:

How is it the right thing to do to allow criminals to use government to steal from me?

The vast majority of voters are criminals at large who haven't been apprehended and convicted yet. Yet you want to deprive some innocent folks who were railroaded into jail from voting.

For shame! :nauseated:

[dillo]

Question, Why is it constitutionally valid in your eyes to ban a felon from exercising their 2nd amendment right? Does being a felon forfeit you from any other rights legally and what constitutional justification do you use to prevent a felon from being tortured, or not given a trial?

[Swordsmyth]

Why should anyone be allowed to use the government to steal from me?
Nobody should, that is why if we can eliminate people from the voter pool who will do so more than others we should.


Since felons haven't been voting I can't say what they're going to do
Well it has been studied how they vote when they are allowed to vote and they vote for more government theft at higher rates than other people and there is a logical explanation why.


BUT I can reasonably guess the vast majority of "honest" folk have no problem stealing from me.
Then why would you want to give them reinforcements?




You sure about that? I'm fairly certain there are a lot of people voting who deserve to be in prison, a lot in prison who don't deserve to be there, and a lot who commit crimes every day and are blissfully unaware they are criminals.
I said REAL crimes and the percent of people out of prison who belong there is much smaller than the percent of those in prison who should be there.




How do you know that's how they're going to vote? I imagine most would vote to legalize weed and that alone would be a huge savings to taxpayers.
Because of how they vote in every state that allows them to and because it fits with their criminal tendencies.

[Swordsmyth]

Question, Why is it constitutionally valid in your eyes to ban a felon from exercising their 2nd amendment right? Does being a felon forfeit you from any other rights legally and what constitutional justification do you use to prevent a felon from being tortured, or not given a trial?
It is not Constitutionally valid to deny felons their 2ndA rights.

[Swordsmyth]

The vast majority of voters are criminals at large who haven't been apprehended and convicted yet. Yet you want to deprive some innocent folks who were railroaded into jail from voting.

For shame! :nauseated:

Nonsense.

Peddle your lies elsewhere.

[Swordsmyth]

The vast majority of voters are criminals at large who haven't been apprehended and convicted yet. Yet you want to deprive some innocent folks who were railroaded into jail from voting.

For shame! :nauseated:

It's also irrelevant, felons vote for bigger government and since the proper role of government is to protect rights and not to violate them then felons should not be allowed to vote.

You want to allow people to increase the size of government.

FOR SHAME! :nauseated:

[Swordsmyth]

Out of curiosity, do you recall if the stats consider legalizing weed leftist?
The right is becoming more open to it.

If you could live in a communist country with legal weed or a country that faithfully followed the Bill of Rights and the other Constitutional restrictions on government except weed was illegal which would you choose?





Irwin Schiff (RIP) came to mind when I saw this thread.
He is not a representative of any significant portion of felons.

[RonZeplin]

Nonsense.

Peddle your lies elsewhere.

You're lying because you can't handle the truth. Liar, liar, pants on fire. :fire:

Studies show that the average American commits several felonies a day. OTOH many are released from prison because of bogus convictions that are overturned, or they are pardoned if they have connections. Them's the facts.
:seenoevil::hearnoevil::speaknoevil:

[Swordsmyth]

You're lying because you can't handle the truth. :fire:

Studies show that the average American commits several felonies a day. OTOH many are released from prison because of bogus convictions that are overturned, or they are pardoned if they have connections. Them's the facts.
:seenoevil::hearnoevil::speaknoevil:
The fact is that you are exaggerating true facts and advocating for people who want bigger government to do their stealing for them to be allowed to vote.
You are also misrepresenting my position, I have repeatedly stated that those who were falsely convicted or who were convicted of fake crimes should be released and allowed to vote but most people who are in prison belong there and are not fit to vote. They most certainly should not be allowed to vote while they are being punished for their crimes.

You are making an argument that is just as logical as recommending that a broken toe be amputated because the amputation wound will heal faster than the bone.

[Anti Federalist]

Out of curiosity, do you recall if the stats consider legalizing weed leftist?

Nah, haven't seen anything that broke it down that closely.


Irwin Schiff (RIP) came to mind when I saw this thread.

Or Ed and Elaine Brown.

Or Bernard von NotHaus.

If the jails were full of folks like that, yeah, the Bolshies would have nothing to do with them.

Just to make clear: I'm not opposed to convicts who have served their time having all protected, natural, rights restored.

Because liberty and freedom is held in such disdain by so many people, I'm opposed to anything that makes voting easier for anybody.

[donnay]

...And if we think the voting is rigged (as I believe it is) this would only put that tally over the top to help hide their cheating.

People in prison can be coerced very easily. "You want to get out for good behavior? You vote the way the warden wants you too." The warden will be paid handsomely for his troubles.

[devil21]

My guess is a federal power grab. Felon voting law is a state issue currently. If somehow it can be turned into a federal law then the states just lost their ability to decide it.

[invisible]

So now the police state shylls want to keep a certain group people from voting, because they have a collectivist fear that this group of people would oppose their agenda of trying to turn our country into east germany or north korea. They are trying to argue that this group of people will vote to use the force of government to steal from them. But yet these shylls want to use the force of government steal from everyone, so that they can do things like build walls, expand government spying, and start a war in Venezuela.

[Suzanimal]

The right is becoming more open to it.

Unfortunately, not a significant number.



If you could live in a communist country with legal weed or a country that faithfully followed the Bill of Rights and the other Constitutional restrictions on government except weed was illegal which would you choose?

In a country that faithfully followed TBOR and Constitution, I seriously doubt weed would be illegal. Ending the War on Drugs would be a huge savings to the taxpayer and would go a long way in reducing the police state. http://www.drugsense.org/cms/wodclock

But to answer your question (which I think is a weird question to ask me - I don't think I've ever come across as a one issue libertarian), I wouldn't want to live in a communist state with legal weed. However, I'm not sure you can consider yourself free if you can't even chose what you put in your body. I wonder how you can imagine a country that followed the BOR & Constitution with the current drug policy.

To be honest, I think voting is rigged and almost pointless. I think our criminal justice system is a sick joke and I find it hard to believe that anyone caught up in the system could come out (or be in) voting for more government BUT I'm willing to concede that people are stupid so who knows... Also, donna made a good point about how incarcerated people could be coerced to vote a certain way - +rep for that post. I'm still more concerned with the (law abiding - lol) general population voting to steal from me than I am prisoners, though.




He is not a representative of any significant portion of felons.

Obviously not but the prisons are full of people convicted of drug crimes.

Thinking about this reminded me of an oldie but goody from Ron Paul.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyV9Owe3ojA

[Brian4Liberty]

It seems like there was some Senator and his wife who pushed for criminal justice reform, and it passed and was signed into law by some President who supported it. Can’t recall who it was. Must have been Bernie Sanders and Obama.

[Brian4Liberty]

Why are the Bolsheviks pushing for felon's voting restoration?

Simple:

They tend to vote for Bolsheviks.
...

That’s a big part of it. It’s also another simple reason: pandering. Sanders thinks that it will help him with black voters, as he thinks this is a big issue for the black community. Bolsheviks thrive on pandering to anyone they can convince is a victim, then they will “save” them. They have the biggest (bleeding) hearts, dontcha know? It’s just a strange side effect that it always results in more power and money for them.

[Brian4Liberty]

From another thread on the subject:


Sounds like pandering to me. The ignorance of the average voter is astounding, prisoner or not. The case can be made that current prisoners should not be able to vote, for a variety of reasons. Once they are out, their voting rights should be restored. From the left’s perspective, they really want this, as they essentially have a captive group of people who will be forced to vote. They will not be going to vote on their own initiative. Their goal has long been to get the most ignorant voters possible, thus programs such as motor-voter laws. And this idea.

And that. Pandering to the SJW left.

[invisible]

That’s a big part of it. It’s also another simple reason: pandering. Sanders thinks that it will help him with black voters, as he thinks this is a big issue for the black community. Bolsheviks thrive on pandering to anyone they can convince is a victim, then they will “save” them. They have the biggest (bleeding) hearts, dontcha know? It’s just a strange side effect that it always results in more power and money for them.

Authoritarian police-staters thrive on pandering to anyone they can convince is a victim through their fear mongering, then they will save them from those horrible immigrants and criminals and terrorists and communists. They only want what's best for everyone (just like the communists also claim) and know that expanding the police state is the only way to defend freedom, don'tcha know? It's just a strange side effect that it always results in more power and money for them and their MIC, prison industrial complex, and spying industry friends.

[pcosmar]

Voting Rights,,, ?

Lets talk about Gun Rights then. and the Restoration of those Rights.

got me banned fro THR before I came here.

[Anti Federalist]

Voting Rights,,, ?

Lets talk about Gun Rights then. and the Restoration of those Rights.

got me banned fro THR before I came here.

Stated many times, and I'll say it again: voting isn't a "right".

The god given right to defend yourself is.

All "natural" rights should be fully restored.

[Anti Federalist]

So now the police state shylls want to keep a certain group people from voting, because they have a collectivist fear that this group of people would oppose their agenda of trying to turn our country into east germany or north korea. They are trying to argue that this group of people will vote to use the force of government to steal from them. But yet these shylls want to use the force of government steal from everyone, so that they can do things like build walls, expand government spying, and start a war in Venezuela.

Please point out the district, state or nation that is voting in wholesale freedom.

I'll be on my way.

[pcosmar]

Stated many times, and I'll say it again: voting isn't a "right".

The god given right to defend yourself is.

All "natural" rights should be fully restored.

but,,
politics

[pcosmar]

the reality is,,,

The current state of affairs is not the result of Felons Voting..

its those other people out in the so called "free world".

[Anti Federalist]

That’s a big part of it. It’s also another simple reason: pandering. Sanders thinks that it will help him with black voters, as he thinks this is a big issue for the black community. Bolsheviks thrive on pandering to anyone they can convince is a victim, then they will “save” them. They have the biggest (bleeding) hearts, dontcha know? It’s just a strange side effect that it always results in more power and money for them.

Yeah, he needs some colored people street cred...fits in with this story I saw this morning.

Another sign o' the times, when Bernie fucking Sanders ain't "woke" and lefty enough for you.



Bernie Sanders gets tough reception at minority women's event, signaling challenges ahead

https://www.lmtonline.com/news/article/Sanders-gets-tough-reception-at-minority-women-s-13793574.php

HOUSTON - The groans erupted halfway through Bernie Sanders' appearance Wednesday at a presidential candidates' forum sponsored by She the People, a group that aims to drive up voter participation among women of color.

Before an audience of about 1,700, many of them African-American and Hispanic women, the moderator asked Sanders, I-Vt., how he would handle the rise in white supremacy. Sanders spoke of fighting discrimination and running a campaign "to bring our people together around an agenda that speaks to all people" - then returned to a familiar message on universal health care.

For many in the audience, that was insufficient. "Come on!" a woman shouted from the back, as others began to jeer and boo.

The reception reflected Sanders' struggle to win support from minority voters, a problem that dogged his 2016 primary campaign against Hillary Clinton. Sanders has taken steps since to improve his outreach, including meeting with black leaders and talking more frequently about the difficulties facing minorities, but Wednesday's event suggested the senator still faces challenges.

Sanders at one point mentioned his long record on civil rights, but it did little to mollify the crowd.

[Anti Federalist]

the reality is,,,

The current state of affairs is not the result of Felons Voting..

its those other people out in the so called "free world".

Obviously, since they cannot yet vote.

This is nothing but a numbers game to me.

Freedom folks are a tiny minority.

The more en bloc anti-freedom folks you add into the voting mix, the less likely any progress will be made.

Granting that "progress" in this case is ephemeral and pointless...we all know our current crisis is not going to be solved in voting booth.

So I suppose you're right, it doesn't really matter anyways.

[invisible]

Let's take the mask off, and call this exactly what it is: advocating for voter suppression of political opposition, just like north korea, china, and soviet russia.

[pcosmar]

Obviously, since they cannot yet vote.

This is nothing but a numbers game to me.

Freedom folks are a tiny minority.


and that is the reality. inside or out.

but I think folks with personal contact might be more inclined to Liberty than is Feared. or can be reached with that message.

that's why they don't let us on a Jury. ever.

[Brian4Liberty]

Yeah, he needs some colored people street cred...fits in with this story I saw this morning.

Another sign o' the times, when Bernie fucking Sanders ain't "woke" and lefty enough for you.



Bernie Sanders gets tough reception at minority women's event, signaling challenges ahead

https://www.lmtonline.com/news/article/Sanders-gets-tough-reception-at-minority-women-s-13793574.php

HOUSTON - The groans erupted halfway through Bernie Sanders' appearance Wednesday at a presidential candidates' forum sponsored by She the People, a group that aims to drive up voter participation among women of color.

Before an audience of about 1,700, many of them African-American and Hispanic women, the moderator asked Sanders, I-Vt., how he would handle the rise in white supremacy. Sanders spoke of fighting discrimination and running a campaign "to bring our people together around an agenda that speaks to all people" - then returned to a familiar message on universal health care.

For many in the audience, that was insufficient. "Come on!" a woman shouted from the back, as others began to jeer and boo.

The reception reflected Sanders' struggle to win support from minority voters, a problem that dogged his 2016 primary campaign against Hillary Clinton. Sanders has taken steps since to improve his outreach, including meeting with black leaders and talking more frequently about the difficulties facing minorities, but Wednesday's event suggested the senator still faces challenges.

Sanders at one point mentioned his long record on civil rights, but it did little to mollify the crowd.

Yep, Bernie has problems, and he’s trying to pander. It’s not working. Talking about “all people” is no longer acceptable (similar to how seeing people as individuals (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?533781-Individualists-Are-Dangerous) is now verboten). They would have cheered if Bernie had said “We will root them out, hunt them down, and silence them. There will be no place for them to hide. Their evil will not stand, and those who do not join us will be just as guilty. There will be no mercy!”

[Brian4Liberty]

My guess is a federal power grab. Felon voting law is a state issue currently. If somehow it can be turned into a federal law then the states just lost their ability to decide it.

A good point not be overlooked. May not be foremost in Bernie’s mind, but others probably have it in mind.

[devil21]

A good point not be overlooked. May not be foremost in Bernie’s mind, but others probably have it in mind.

I'm inclined to think the "voting block" stuff being argued through most of the thread is secondary to the federal power consolidation. Socialism doesn't work when states still have the ability (statutorily, perceived, exercised or otherwise) to decide issues like who can and can't vote. Overt socialism requires the entire population to be under one umbrella of rules. I'm sure Bernie knows this quite well. Remember, the reasons put out to the public for damn near everything are rarely, if ever, the real reason it's being floated and keeping people arguing about secondary effects distracts from the larger effect.

[pcosmar]

I'm inclined to think the "voting block" stuff being argued through most of the thread is secondary to the federal power consolidation. Socialism doesn't work when states still have the ability (statutorily, perceived, exercised or otherwise) to decide issues like who can and can't vote. Overt socialism requires the entire population to be under one umbrella of rules. I'm sure Bernie knows this quite well. Remember, the reasons put out to the public for damn near everything are rarely, if ever, the real reason it's being floated and keeping people arguing about secondary effects distracts from the larger effect.

Excellent Point.

And yet Federal Prohibitions are still imposed on States. (Prohibited Person)

[Swordsmyth]

So now the police state shylls want to keep a certain group people from voting, because they have a collectivist fear that this group of people would oppose their agenda of trying to turn our country into east germany or north korea. They are trying to argue that this group of people will vote to use the force of government to steal from them. But yet these shylls want to use the force of government steal from everyone, so that they can do things like build walls, expand government spying, and start a war in Venezuela.
LOL

If you are going to live in a fantasy world then why do you choose to make it a nightmare?

[Swordsmyth]

Let's take the mask off, and call this exactly what it is: advocating for voter suppression of political opposition, just like north korea, china, and soviet russia.
LOL

It is advocating for removing government power from the hands of those who have demonstrated that they are unfit to use it.

[Swordsmyth]

the reality is,,,

The current state of affairs is not the result of Felons Voting..

its those other people out in the so called "free world".
Yes, so why do you want to make it even worse than it is?

[Swordsmyth]

Voting Rights,,, ?

Lets talk about Gun Rights then. and the Restoration of those Rights.

got me banned fro THR before I came here.
I am absolutely on your side about that, I've said so many times.

[pcosmar]

Yes, so why do you want to make it even worse than it is?

I'm not.

and I have no fear of their voting changing anything.. really..

you are the one with the FEAR based panic attack.

[Swordsmyth]

I'm not.
That is exactly what you want to do.


and I have no fear of their voting changing anything.. really..
Then you are a Dodo bird.


you are the one with the FEAR based panic attack.
I am not having a panic attack and I do justly fear losing more liberty by allowing the left to add more straws to the camel's back.

[pcosmar]

I am not having a panic attack and I do justly fear losing more liberty by allowing the left to add more straws to the camel's back.

https://res-4.cloudinary.com/amn/image/upload/c_fill,f_auto,h_340,w_727/v1413497112/PanicAttack_141349711232863b9558.gif

read the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy... for some good advice..

[Swordsmyth]

https://res-4.cloudinary.com/amn/image/upload/c_fill,f_auto,h_340,w_727/v1413497112/PanicAttack_141349711232863b9558.gif

read the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy... for some good advice..
:sleeping:

[Anti Federalist]

Let's take the mask off, and call this exactly what it is: advocating for voter suppression of political opposition, just like north korea, china, and soviet russia.

Fine.

That's what I'm in favor of: voter suppression.

Judging from what I see and hear from my fellow citizens, I would be perfectly happy banning 90 percent of them forever from getting anywhere close to a voting booth.

[Swordsmyth]

Fine.

That's what I'm in favor of: voter suppression.

Judging from what I see and hear from my fellow citizens, I would be perfectly happy banning 90 percent of them forever from getting anywhere close to a voting booth.
Why should people who have demonstrated through their actions and their votes that they want to steal from me be allowed a voice in government?
I thought this movement believed in a Republic and individual rights?
We are small d democrats now?

[pcosmar]

Stated many times, and I'll say it again: voting isn't a "right".



no say in who rules over me,, and no voice in the process.. That sounds a lot like slavery to me.

Having a say in the affairs of my life seems like it should be a Right..

Oh Well,, I have removed any consent to be Governed anyway,,,

[Swordsmyth]

no say in who rules over me,, and no voice in the process.. That sounds a lot like slavery to me.

Having a say in the affairs of my life seems like it should be a Right..

Oh Well,, I have removed any consent to be Governed anyway,,,
You would rather have a say in choosing people who will violate more of your rights than no say in choosing people who will violate less of them?

It's not like you didn't make choices that put you in a disqualified category either.


I thought this movement believed in a Republic and individual rights?
We are small d democrats now?

[pcosmar]

You would rather have a say in choosing people who will violate more of your rights than no say in choosing people who will violate less of them?


you keep saying that like it is a foregone conclusion,,
When in Fact,, it is only the worst fear of your mind painted with a wide brush over everyone.

I'm not impressed on concerned with YOUR Fears.

They have no actual basis in fact.

They are wishful or fearful fantasies regardless.

[Swordsmyth]

you keep saying that like it is a foregone conclusion,,
When in Fact,, it is only the worst fear of your mind painted with a wide brush over everyone.

I'm not impressed on concerned with YOUR Fears.

They have no actual basis in fact.

They are wishful or fearful fantasies regardless.
IT IS FACT, FELONS VOTE FOR DEMONCRATS, THAT'S WHY THEY WANT THEM TO VOTE WHEN THEY GET OUT AND NOW WHILE THEY ARE INSIDE.

You just dismiss any facts that you don't like.

[pcosmar]

You just dismiss any facts that you don't like.

Not a Fact..
I don't.. there are others like me.

and so your theory is Bunk.

[Swordsmyth]

Not a Fact..
I don't.. there are others like me.

and so your theory is Bunk.
You do it all the time and there are other Dodo birds like you.

[Anti Federalist]

Let's take the mask off, and call this exactly what it is: advocating for voter suppression of political opposition, just like north korea, china, and soviet russia.

LOL - You got it all bassackwards there brother.

In almost all of the failed leftist regimes to the south of us, voting is MANDATED.

Which seems to be what you want here.

But regardless, voting hard is required.

[invisible]

That's what I'm in favor of: voter suppression.

Judging from what I see and hear from my fellow citizens, I would be perfectly happy banning 90 percent of them forever from getting anywhere close to a voting booth.


It is advocating for removing government power from the hands of those who have demonstrated that they are unfit to use it.

The very definition of tyranny. Sorry, but your argument that we have to impose tyranny to prevent tyranny doesn't hold water.


I'm not.

and I have no fear of their voting changing anything.. really..

you are the one with the FEAR based panic attack.

Fear mongering is the weapon of these police state shylls. Collectivist based fear and hatred of political opposition, foreigners, terrorists, truth, and freedom.

[Brian4Liberty]

...the moderator asked Sanders, I-Vt., how he would handle the rise in white supremacy. Sanders spoke of fighting discrimination and running a campaign "to bring our people together around an agenda that speaks to all people" - then returned to a familiar message on universal health care.

For many in the audience, that was insufficient. "Come on!" a woman shouted from the back, as others began to jeer and boo.
...


Yep, Bernie has problems, and he’s trying to pander. It’s not working. Talking about “all people” is no longer acceptable (similar to how seeing people as individuals (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?533781-Individualists-Are-Dangerous) is now verboten). They would have cheered if Bernie had said “We will root them out, hunt them down, and silence them. There will be no place for them to hide. Their evil will not stand, and those who do not join us will be just as guilty. There will be no mercy!”

Another one rooted out! (https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/04/25/san-jose-teacher-placed-on-leave-over-alleged-ties-to-white-supremacist-group/) Hang him! They are hidden everywhere. Bernie needs to get in on this.

[Anti Federalist]

Fear mongering is the weapon of these police state shylls. Collectivist based fear and hatred of political opposition, foreigners, terrorists, truth, and freedom.

Fucking right I am "afraid".

Or perhaps "concerned" or "alarmed" is more accurate, when "political opposition" has announced that me and my family, my posterity, will be effectively silenced and be second class citizens in the New AmeriKa, or in the worst case, physically exterminated, in the country my family helped build.

You would be too, if you took the time to analyze the current situation and what is being said and done.

[enhanced_deficit]

Why are the Bolsheviks pushing for felon's voting restoration?
Simple:

They tend to vote for Bolsheviks.






Socialism/communism is a manifestation of criminal tendencies, it is only logical that criminals will favor such policies that give them "free" stuff by stealing from everyone else.

Criminality should disqualify you from voting because voting is one of the most dangerous activities on the planet and the criminal has demonstrated his flawed character.



The same reason they flood the country with illegal immigrants, want to get rid of the electoral college, call opposing viewpoints racist, misogynistic, etc., etc., etc.




If you ask them, they will tell you, they are trying to save our 'democracy.'


Jared Kushner Says Florida Ex-Felons Are Part of 'the New Coalition That President Trump Is Building'

“One statistic that I found very pleasing, is that in Florida, they passed a law where former felons can now vote"

By Brendan Cole On 4/2/19 at 5:11 AM EDT

In a wide-ranging interview with host Laura Ingraham, President Donald Trump's son-in-law expressed his satisfaction at seeing the passage last year of the bipartisan criminal justice reform bill, called the First Step Act, which aims to reduce recidivism and help convicted felons reintegrate into society.

Ahead of the interview, a clip was played of an event hosted Monday at the White House celebrating the legislation, which Ingraham described as a “personal mission” of Kushner's.

She asked him whether his focus on the legislation was borne out of his seeing his father incarcerated. In 2005, Charles Kushner spent 14 months in prison after he pleaded guilty to making illegal campaign contributions, tax evasion and witness tampering.

When Ingraham asked Kushner about it, he said: “One statistic that I found very pleasing, is that in Florida, they passed a law where former felons can now vote. We have more ex-felons registered as Republicans than Democrats.”

Ingraham interrupted him to say, ”Woah, you have had more ex-felons register as Republicans than Democrats?”
Kushner replied: “That is the data that I have seen. I think that will surprise a lot of people when they see the new coalition that President Trump is building for what the Republican Party has the potential to be.”

https://www.newsweek.com/more-florida-ex-felons-registered-republican-democrats-says-jared-kushner-1382838


Potentially-Related

Trump: "Nancy Pelosi loves this country"
(http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?528188-Trump-quot-Nancy-Pelosi-loves-this-country-quot&)
Book: Trump inlaws Kushners funding behind Cory Booker, Kushner dad secretly met Booker (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?533660-Book-Trump-inlaws-Kushners-funding-behind-Cory-Booker-Kushner-dad-secretly-met-Booker&)





ETA: Bit surprised that 99 posts went by and this tiny factoid was not brought up for discussion.

If on this issue, MAGA again deployed AL Senate Roy Moore dual prong strategy where he pretended to support the GOP candidate while Jarvanka campaigned against GOP candidate (in the end GOP's conservative Christian guy lost to the Dem in that Senate race), that sort of 3D-show might not work on the base this time around.

[pcosmar]

You do it all the time and there are other Dodo birds like you.

No I did not Vote for the Clown Prince.. the spoiled brat of a Wealthy Slum Lord.

and I expect little from him beyond a circus.

There were NO Principles present in the last election.. none presented.. none debated. None.

it was a Circus Show.. and the Clown won..

that is the state of the nation.

[pcosmar]

[SIZE=4][





ETA: Bit surprised that 99 posts went by and this tiny factoid was not brought up for discussion.


did not look,, even..

It was obvious that SS was full of bunk again. I know it from my own experience and he has nothing but fear based fantasy.

[acptulsa]

[ETA: Bit surprised that 99 posts went by and this tiny factoid was not brought up for discussion.

pcosmar was saying it, and since people convicted of felonies aren't generally considered the kind of people other people want to be associated with, that other guy wanted to lump them in with the people he spends all night every night demonizing.

The fact that his claims weren't true didn't matter, because he just dismisses any facts that he doesn't like.

[A. Havnes]

Yup..
and for clarification,, I am not for voting rights while in Prison under conviction..
Pre conviction,,, awaiting trial. (assumed Innocent) They should be able to vote..

and at the end of sentence.. and I am in Favor of FULL Restoration of Rights on completion.. and that doesn't happen.

Rand is (or was) drafting a bill to automatically expunge records after a certain time as well. Personally, I feel that unless someone gets in trouble multiple times during a five year period, all records, including those at the NCIC, should be destroyed and all rights restored.

[Swordsmyth]

The very definition of tyranny. Sorry, but your argument that we have to impose tyranny to prevent tyranny doesn't hold water.
Allowing other to tyrannize you is NOT liberty.
Claiming that it is is luciferian.




Fear mongering is the weapon of these police state shylls. Collectivist based fear and hatred of political opposition, foreigners, terrorists, truth, and freedom.
Listen to the Dodo bird spread collectivist based fear and hatred of those that actually want to stop tyrants and thieves, it's downright funny.

[Swordsmyth]

No I did not Vote for the Clown Prince.. the spoiled brat of a Wealthy Slum Lord.

and I expect little from him beyond a circus.

There were NO Principles present in the last election.. none presented.. none debated. None.

it was a Circus Show.. and the Clown won..

that is the state of the nation.
Which has absolutely nothing to do with your dismissal of any facts that you don't like.

[Swordsmyth]

Jared Kushner Says Florida Ex-Felons Are Part of 'the New Coalition That President Trump Is Building'

“One statistic that I found very pleasing, is that in Florida, they passed a law where former felons can now vote"

By Brendan Cole On 4/2/19 at 5:11 AM EDT

In a wide-ranging interview with host Laura Ingraham, President Donald Trump's son-in-law expressed his satisfaction at seeing the passage last year of the bipartisan criminal justice reform bill, called the First Step Act, which aims to reduce recidivism and help convicted felons reintegrate into society.

Ahead of the interview, a clip was played of an event hosted Monday at the White House celebrating the legislation, which Ingraham described as a “personal mission” of Kushner's.

She asked him whether his focus on the legislation was borne out of his seeing his father incarcerated. In 2005, Charles Kushner spent 14 months in prison after he pleaded guilty to making illegal campaign contributions, tax evasion and witness tampering.

When Ingraham asked Kushner about it, he said: “One statistic that I found very pleasing, is that in Florida, they passed a law where former felons can now vote. We have more ex-felons registered as Republicans than Democrats.”

Ingraham interrupted him to say, ”Woah, you have had more ex-felons register as Republicans than Democrats?”
Kushner replied: “That is the data that I have seen. I think that will surprise a lot of people when they see the new coalition that President Trump is building for what the Republican Party has the potential to be.”

https://www.newsweek.com/more-florida-ex-felons-registered-republican-democrats-says-jared-kushner-1382838


Potentially-Related

Trump: "Nancy Pelosi loves this country"
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ETA: Bit surprised that 99 posts went by and this tiny factoid was not brought up for discussion.

If on this issue, MAGA again deployed AL Senate Roy Moore dual prong strategy where he pretended to support the GOP candidate while Jarvanka campaigned against GOP candidate (in the end GOP's conservative Christian guy lost to the Dem in that Senate race), that sort of 3D-show might not work on the base this time around.


did not look,, even..

It was obvious that SS was full of bunk again. I know it from my own experience and he has nothing but fear based fantasy.


pcosmar was saying it, and since people convicted of felonies aren't generally considered the kind of people other people want to be associated with, that other guy wanted to lump them in with the people he spends all night every night demonizing.

The fact that his claims weren't true didn't matter, because he just dismisses any facts that he doesn't like.

https://twitter.com/armadillo_amy/status/1113169624252669952

1113169624252669952

[Swordsmyth]

Jared Kushner Says Florida Ex-Felons Are Part of 'the New Coalition That President Trump Is Building'

“One statistic that I found very pleasing, is that in Florida, they passed a law where former felons can now vote"

By Brendan Cole On 4/2/19 at 5:11 AM EDT

In a wide-ranging interview with host Laura Ingraham, President Donald Trump's son-in-law expressed his satisfaction at seeing the passage last year of the bipartisan criminal justice reform bill, called the First Step Act, which aims to reduce recidivism and help convicted felons reintegrate into society.

Ahead of the interview, a clip was played of an event hosted Monday at the White House celebrating the legislation, which Ingraham described as a “personal mission” of Kushner's.

She asked him whether his focus on the legislation was borne out of his seeing his father incarcerated. In 2005, Charles Kushner spent 14 months in prison after he pleaded guilty to making illegal campaign contributions, tax evasion and witness tampering.

When Ingraham asked Kushner about it, he said: “One statistic that I found very pleasing, is that in Florida, they passed a law where former felons can now vote. We have more ex-felons registered as Republicans than Democrats.”

Ingraham interrupted him to say, ”Woah, you have had more ex-felons register as Republicans than Democrats?”
Kushner replied: “That is the data that I have seen. I think that will surprise a lot of people when they see the new coalition that President Trump is building for what the Republican Party has the potential to be.”

https://www.newsweek.com/more-florida-ex-felons-registered-republican-democrats-says-jared-kushner-1382838


Potentially-Related

Trump: "Nancy Pelosi loves this country"
(http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?528188-Trump-quot-Nancy-Pelosi-loves-this-country-quot&)
Book: Trump inlaws Kushners funding behind Cory Booker, Kushner dad secretly met Booker (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?533660-Book-Trump-inlaws-Kushners-funding-behind-Cory-Booker-Kushner-dad-secretly-met-Booker&)





ETA: Bit surprised that 99 posts went by and this tiny factoid was not brought up for discussion.

If on this issue, MAGA again deployed AL Senate Roy Moore dual prong strategy where he pretended to support the GOP candidate while Jarvanka campaigned against GOP candidate (in the end GOP's conservative Christian guy lost to the Dem in that Senate race), that sort of 3D-show might not work on the base this time around.


did not look,, even..

It was obvious that SS was full of bunk again. I know it from my own experience and he has nothing but fear based fantasy.


pcosmar was saying it, and since people convicted of felonies aren't generally considered the kind of people other people want to be associated with, that other guy wanted to lump them in with the people he spends all night every night demonizing.

The fact that his claims weren't true didn't matter, because he just dismisses any facts that he doesn't like.

https://media3.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2019_08/2763356/fs_data_download_2_2019_02_24_9c5191baa1a727e7da7c 34ed4782fd5f.fit-760w.jpg

Early results from a minority of felons are meaningless.

[pcosmar]

[

Early results from a minority of felons are meaningless.

Because Fear, Fear, Fear, Fear, Fear, Fear, and FEAR..

there is a definite pattern to your posting,,, and since I have both confronted and rejected Fear.. your paranoid posts are easily dismissed..


For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Fear is a Spirit Being,, sentient, incorporeal, malevolent,,

and it only has the power you give it.

[Swordsmyth]

Because Fear, Fear, Fear, Fear, Fear, Fear, and FEAR..

there is a definite pattern to your posting,,, and since I have both confronted and rejected Fear.. your paranoid posts are easily dismissed..



Fear is a Spirit Being,, sentient, incorporeal, malevolent,,

and it only has the power you give it.
The Dodo bird denies the facts yet again.

Threat recognition is not paranoia.

[pcosmar]

Threat recognition is not paranoia.

Some people see everything as a threat.

[Swordsmyth]

Some people see everything as a threat.
Very few.

Some people see nothing as a threat, there are very many of them.

[pcosmar]

Very few.



What's that silly Terror Threat Level these days?

https://desultoryheroics.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/dhsfear3.jpg?w=720&quality=80&strip=info

[Swordsmyth]

What's that silly Terror Threat Level these days?

https://desultoryheroics.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/dhsfear3.jpg?w=720&quality=80&strip=info

I have no idea, I had forgotten about it.

[pcosmar]

Some people see nothing as a threat,

https://www.thedailysheeple.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/dhsterroralertscale.png

[pcosmar]

I have no idea, I had forgotten about it.

I don't forget the real threats.

http://pcosmar.blogspot.com/2009/03/i-am-domestic-terrorist.html

[Swordsmyth]

I don't forget the real threats.

http://pcosmar.blogspot.com/2009/03/i-am-domestic-terrorist.html

You forget the ones that don't fit your fantasy, the felons you want to allow to vote will make the government even bigger.

[pcosmar]

You forget the ones that don't fit your fantasy, the felons you want to allow to vote will make the government even bigger.

How many have you personally Known?

Spoken to?

ask questions of?


NOPE

You arrogance is almost as stunning as your ignorance.

btw,, I have 3 Felonies for Armed Robbery
and one for Felon in Possession of a Firearm (attempted)

That's 4 in a 3 strikes world..

I am far more reality based than your news sources. I live this shit every day.

[Swordsmyth]

How many have you personally Known?

Spoken to?

ask questions of?


NOPE
I have known some but that is irrelevant, statistics show how they vote and it fits with their criminal tendencies.

[pcosmar]

statistics show how they vote

The statistics from them not voting,, or the statistics of the possibility of them voting?

or what thay might have said they voted before they were locked up? (known as hearsay)

I call Bull$hit again..

Can not have a statistical record of something that hasn't happened.

[Swordsmyth]

The statistics from them not voting,, or the statistics of the possibility of them voting?

or what thay might have said they voted before they were locked up? (known as hearsay)

I call Bull$hit again..

Can not have a statistical record of something that hasn't happened.
There are states that let them vote, one or two even let them vote from inside, we can see how they vote.

[pcosmar]

"We"

You have a lot of access to Prison Files?

Read Mine?

My Voting rights were restored at the end of my sentence.. as is usual,, Some states automatically,, and some you must request .

voting while awaiting trial is another issue.. and the Main issue originally.. Especially with the Massive amount of people awaiting Trial in Crowed County Jails .

[Anti Federalist]

I know how to put the brakes on this... ;)

Hey Lefties...you really want these guys voting in prison?

http://www.nickryan.net/images/aryan_brotherhood1242904897.jpg

https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/group_images/SPLC-Intelligence-Files-Groups-Aryan-Brotherhood-1280x720.jpg

http://www.cjnotebook.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Aryan-Brotherhood-Tattoos.jpg

https://media.12news.com/assets/GANNETT/images/f81b20c9-0e5a-4d68-a21f-fe5ded40e368/f81b20c9-0e5a-4d68-a21f-fe5ded40e368_750x422.jpg

[Swordsmyth]

I know how to put the brakes on this... ;)

Hey Lefties...you really want these guys voting in prison?

http://www.nickryan.net/images/aryan_brotherhood1242904897.jpg

https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/group_images/SPLC-Intelligence-Files-Groups-Aryan-Brotherhood-1280x720.jpg

http://www.cjnotebook.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Aryan-Brotherhood-Tattoos.jpg

https://media.12news.com/assets/GANNETT/images/f81b20c9-0e5a-4d68-a21f-fe5ded40e368/f81b20c9-0e5a-4d68-a21f-fe5ded40e368_750x422.jpg

They do want them voting from prison, just imagine the news stories that can be written about how they vote for Trump or Rand etc.

[Anti Federalist]

They do want them voting from prison, just imagine the news stories that can be written about how they vote for Trump or Rand etc.

So it will only be a matter time before you'll be able to vote from prison... IF ... you vote the correct way.

About how I figured all of this would turn out, LOL.

[invisible]

Interesting pictures, I didn't know that trump had meetup groups! Or perhaps those are your new friends. Oh, I get it! Those must be the leftists that you're so afraid of!

[Anti Federalist]

Interesting pictures, I didn't know that trump had meetup groups! Or perhaps those are your new friends. Oh, I get it! Those must be the leftists that you're so afraid of!

Could be, since the NAZI party, politically, was a leftist party, intent on enacting and enforcing any number of health, safety and social fatwas.

So, while still in prison, you figure those guys have a totally equal say so in how much money is extorted from you every day?

Who we go to endless war with?

Who gets appointed to issue those endless fatwas and rules and enforce them on you at the barrel of gun?

[Swordsmyth]

Interesting pictures, I didn't know that trump had meetup groups! Or perhaps those are your new friends. Oh, I get it! Those must be the leftists that you're so afraid of!
I don't want them determining public policy.


YOU do.

[invisible]

I don't like their political beliefs any more than I like those of you two police state shylls. I wouldn't want to take away their ability to vote, any more than I would want to take away yours, or anyone else's. I don't like leftists trying to use the force of government to steal money from me for wealth redistribution schemes, any more than I like you trying to use the force of givernment steal money from me to expand the police state that you shyll for. In a free society, people can believe what they like, and vote how they like.

[pcosmar]

So it will only be a matter time before you'll be able to vote from prison...


getting to where I can't tell the difference.

a bunch of Tax Slaves voting for the new Master ,,,,Hoping he will be kinder than the last.

It is all circling the drain.. Keep your politics Local. Keep the peace Local..

Fed is on the way of disaster. and the sooner the better. FUBAR

[Swordsmyth]

I don't like their political beliefs any more than I like those of you two police state shylls. I wouldn't want to take away their ability to vote, any more than I would want to take away yours, or anyone else's. I don't like leftists trying to use the force of government to steal money from me for wealth redistribution schemes, any more than I like you trying to use the force of givernment steal money from me to expand the police state that you shyll for. In a free society, people can believe what they like, and vote how they like.

In a free society people can vote to use the government to steal from me?

Besides being a small d democrat are you also a big D Democrat?

It is no more unjust to deny those with proven criminal tendencies the vote than it is to enshrine human rights in the Constitution and forbid laws that violate them.

[pcosmar]

I know how to put the brakes on this... ;)

Hey Lefties...you really want these guys voting in prison?

http://www.nickryan.net/images/aryan_brotherhood1242904897.jpg

https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/group_images/SPLC-Intelligence-Files-Groups-Aryan-Brotherhood-1280x720.jpg

http://www.cjnotebook.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Aryan-Brotherhood-Tattoos.jpg

https://media.12news.com/assets/GANNETT/images/f81b20c9-0e5a-4d68-a21f-fe5ded40e368/f81b20c9-0e5a-4d68-a21f-fe5ded40e368_750x422.jpg

I think they still have a contract on me.

I never heard about it being rescinded.. but possible.

They were a power Block that it was necessary to deal with.
as in.,,

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. the Romans 13 Indictment.

[UWDude]

It's not universal suffrage, if everyone is not allowed to vote.

We have to let literal retards vote, therefore, we also have to let "felons" vote.

Because I'd rather an intelligent felon vote, than a stupid retard.

I've seen enough American justice horror stories, to know
1) many felons are innocent, and when comparing to wealthy (literally privileged), are only guilty of not being able to afford a Lawyer.
2) many laws are bad in the first place.
3) many felons fell on hard times, and regret what they did.
4) many felons I know, one a scale of white to black, are conservative. Meaning black felons tend to not be conservative, if opinionated at all

It's weird, it doesn't make sense, by try discussing politics with ex cons. They are often quite conservative, at least in their talk.
They often fall back into drugs, and especially alcohol, and then the liberal comes out. But when they are living the "reformed" life, their opinions are conservative.

I think 1) they usually feel their sentence was light, compared to what they did.
2) It makes them have a "take charge" mentality, a kind of psych up to keep them disciplined on on the straight and narrow.

I dunno, this subject isn't as simple as it seems on the surface.
Tens, if not hundreds of thousands of mostly men, can not vote, even though they had non-violent felonies.

Murder and voter fraud should be the only to ways to lose the right to vote, since they both take the right to vote from someone else.

[Swordsmyth]

It's not universal suffrage, if everyone is not allowed to vote.

We have to let literal retards vote, therefore, we also have to let "felons" vote.

Because I'd rather an intelligent felon vote, than a stupid retard.
I'd rather eliminate anyone from the voter pool that I can who is likely to vote for big government theft.
If we can take the vote away from retards I'll be for that too.
We can't swap felons for retards and I would need to see the numbers to decide if that was a good deal if we could.

[pcosmar]

I'd rather eliminate anyone from the voter pool that I can who is likely to vote for big government theft.
If we can take the vote away from retards I'll be for that too.
We can't swap felons for retards and I would need to see the numbers to decide if that was a good deal if we could.

So Basically anyone that votes for the approved party is allowed to vote.

why does that sound familiar?

[Swordsmyth]

So Basically anyone that votes for the approved party is allowed to vote.

why does that sound familiar?
No, anyone who votes within the spectrum of liberty is allowed to vote, others are even allowed to vote if there is not a good reason for eliminating them from the voter pool.

The whole point of our Constitutional Republic is to limit what the people may do with government, it is no more unjust to deny those with proven criminal tendencies the vote than it is to enshrine human rights in the Constitution and forbid laws that violate them.

[pcosmar]

No, anyone who votes within the spectrum of liberty is allowed to vote, others are even allowed to vote if there is not a good reason for eliminating them from the voter pool.

The whole point of our Constitutional Republic is to limit what the people may do with government, it is no more unjust to deny those with proven criminal tendencies the vote than it is to enshrine human rights in the Constitution and forbid laws that violate them.

Why not just limit what voters Can and can Not do with the Vote.. to prevent that regardless of who votes?

[Swordsmyth]

It's not universal suffrage, if everyone is not allowed to vote.

We have to let literal retards vote, therefore, we also have to let "felons" vote.

Because I'd rather an intelligent felon vote, than a stupid retard.

I've seen enough American justice horror stories, to know
1) many felons are innocent, and when comparing to wealthy (literally privileged), are only guilty of not being able to afford a Lawyer.
2) many laws are bad in the first place.
3) many felons fell on hard times, and regret what they did.
4) many felons I know, one a scale of white to black, are conservative. Meaning black felons tend to not be conservative, if opinionated at all

It's weird, it doesn't make sense, by try discussing politics with ex cons. They are often quite conservative, at least in their talk.
They often fall back into drugs, and especially alcohol, and then the liberal comes out. But when they are living the "reformed" life, their opinions are conservative.

I think 1) they usually feel their sentence was light, compared to what they did.
2) It makes them have a "take charge" mentality, a kind of psych up to keep them disciplined on on the straight and narrow.

I dunno, this subject isn't as simple as it seems on the surface.
Tens, if not hundreds of thousands of mostly men, can not vote, even though they had non-violent felonies.

Murder and voter fraud should be the only to ways to lose the right to vote, since they both take the right to vote from someone else.
Anyone falsely convicted should have their vote restored, anyone convicted of "crimes" that shouldn't be crimes should have their vote restored.
Those who have committed actual crimes have demonstrated criminal tendencies and their voting patterns reflect that, they should not be allowed to vote.

Murder and voter fraud should both be punished with death (requiring the highest level of proof).

[Swordsmyth]

Why not just limit what voters Can and can Not do with the Vote.. to prevent that regardless of who votes?
Because that invites political repression about subjects on which voters can have legitimate differences of opinion, if you are going to go that route you might as well just have a monarchy and force everyone to be ruled as the king sees fit.

However the Constitution was an attempt to do that about certain limited subjects and it was a very good thing, we might add a few subjects to the list of things that voters and their representatives have reduced say about.(the Constitution can be amended)

[pcosmar]

Anyone falsely convicted should have their vote restored, anyone convicted of "crimes" that shouldn't be crimes should have their vote restored.
Those who have committed actual crimes have demonstrated criminal tendencies and their voting patterns reflect that, they should not be allowed to vote.

.

Who decides? I knew Dozens.. absolutely should not have been there.. One was Picked Up off the Yard by Federal Marshals and escorted out... He Didn't do it.. (had been there 6 months on a Life sentence)

so again,, who decides??
The same people that Falsely Imprisoned Him?

By your standard I should not have been allowed to vote for Ron Paul or Chuck Baldwin.

[Swordsmyth]

Who decides? I knew Dozens.. absolutely should not have been there.. One was Picked Up off the Yard by Federal Marshals and escorted out... He Didn't do it.. (had been there 6 months on a Life sentence)

so again,, who decides??
The same people that Falsely Imprisoned Him?
There are supposed to be appeals courts and there are supposed to be safeguards to keep the innocent from being convicted in the first place.
Both are in need of serious reform and I support reforming them.


By your standard I should not have been allowed to vote for Ron Paul or Chuck Baldwin.
There are exceptions to every trend but when dealing with categories (as we must by the nature of politics and deciding who votes) we must do that which is best overall.
There are many children who would have voted for Ron and Chuck, as a child I would have voted for both of them and for Pat Buchanan but we don't allow children to vote because there is a good reason not to, most of them are too immature to be properly informed or make good decisions about who to vote for.

[devil21]

Weird stuff. I remember AF writing at length in the past about the whole police state "3 felonies a day" thing but now felons shouldn't be able to vote because they may vote for Dems?

Somethin' smells around here...

[Anti Federalist]

Weird stuff. I remember AF writing at length in the past about the whole police state "3 felonies a day" thing but now felons shouldn't be able to vote because they may vote for Dems?

Somethin' smells around here...

Voting is not a "right".

People who have served their sentence and have been released should have all "natural" rights restored, including the right to bear arms.

[Anti Federalist]

I don't like their political beliefs any more than I like those of you two police state shylls. I wouldn't want to take away their ability to vote, any more than I would want to take away yours, or anyone else's. I don't like leftists trying to use the force of government to steal money from me for wealth redistribution schemes, any more than I like you trying to use the force of givernment steal money from me to expand the police state that you shyll for. In a free society, people can believe what they like, and vote how they like.

Fair enough...it's a valid point and and an un-answerable conundrum...people hate freedom, living in a free society and then take that free society privilege to vote themselves unfree, dragging me along with them.

*sigh*

I'll be around to tell you I told you so, though.

[pcosmar]

Somethin' smells around here...

The stink of Fear.

[Anti Federalist]

The stink of Fear.

Yeah, that's me...stinking of fear and convulsing my boots.

After all these years brother, I hate to think that's what you think of me.

Yes, I am afraid.

I am afraid of what I see happening to my home.

Mostly I am afraid for what will become of some very pleasant and fun to be around children of mine, and what will be left for them and the world they will live in, as second class citizens under total surveillance.

I wish I had your faith, to say "It's all up to God anyway, so burn it all down, the sooner the better".

But I don't.

[pcosmar]

There are supposed to be .

There is supposed to be a Constitution that prevents Government OR Voters from infringing on the rights of others.

And yet,,,
There are Gun Laws..

There is Theft for Government programs that should not exist..

And there is a Standing Army kicking in doors and Killing Americans every day..

and you worry about someone locked in a cage by an Authoritarian structure voting for more abuse.


just wow :(

[Brian4Liberty]

It's not universal suffrage, if everyone is not allowed to vote.

We have to let literal retards vote, therefore, we also have to let "felons" vote.

Because I'd rather an intelligent felon vote, than a stupid retard.


What do the powers that be want in voters? Ignorance. Thus they want as many people voting as possible, as this will increase the number of ignorant voters. Who tends to be ignorant (lack of knowledge about how things work)? Young people. People new to the nation. People who have no interest in politics, economics, cause and effect, liberty, etc., and would not vote unless it is almost forced upon them. Get them to the polls!

They want people who will vote based on the D or R after their names. They want people who vote purely on name recognition. They want people who vote as they are told by the TV or newspaper “voter guides”. They want people who will vote because someone told them they will get something free. They want people who vote because their teachers told them what they should vote for. They want people who will vote for them because they tell them that the other candidate hates them.

It’s not a coincidence that Bernie has so many “young” supporters. They would like to lower the voting age to 12. It’s not because they have worldly experience and wisdom.

[pcosmar]

I wish I had your faith, to say "It's all up to God anyway, so burn it all down, the sooner the better".

That is not my faith or my burden.

I was set free in that cage,, and eventually from it. But I lived as a Free man inside that place.. so this is not so different.

I am an Observer.. It seems to be my task.

Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is…

I'm Waiting for Judgement.. Having had mine here,, and seen mine there,, I have no fear of such..
It is more anticipation at this point..

My Hope is that Liberty will remain in Pockets ,, There is always a Remnant.
but I have no hope at all in the governments of this world.. and certainly none in the Clown.

He may do some good by accident... but his boss is Malevolent.

[Krugminator2]

I don't like their political beliefs any more than I like those of you two police state shylls. I wouldn't want to take away their ability to vote, any more than I would want to take away yours, or anyone else's. I don't like leftists trying to use the force of government to steal money from me for wealth redistribution schemes, any more than I like you trying to use the force of givernment steal money from me to expand the police state that you shyll for. In a free society, people can believe what they like, and vote how they like.

In a free society most people shouldn't be allowed to vote. The Founders of this country limited voting to 25% of the population for good reason. The idea of letting prisoners vote and have a say in anything is beyond insane. If you steal or murder, your opinion no longer counts.


Fair enough...it's a valid point and and an un-answerable conundrum...people hate freedom, living in a free society and then take that free society privilege to vote themselves unfree, dragging me along with them.




I think it has an easy answer. Strong constitution and more voting restrictions. Leftists love to talk about the Preamble of the Constitution as a way to justify all sorts of welfare statism. Here is what the author of the Preamble, Gouverneur Morris (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gouverneur_Morris), had to say about voting:

"The time is not distant when this country will abound with mechanics and manufacturers who will receive their bread from their employers. Will such men be the secure and faithful guardians of liberty? Give the votes to people who have no property, and they will sell them to the rich who will be able to buy them."

[ATruepatriot]

What do the powers that be want in voters? Ignorance. Thus they want as many people voting as possible, as this will increase the number of ignorant voters. Who tends to be ignorant (lack of knowledge about how things work)? Young people. People new to the nation. People who have no interest in politics, economics, cause and effect, liberty, etc., and would not vote unless it is almost forced upon them. Get them to the polls!

They want people who will vote based on the D or R after their names. They want people who vote purely on name recognition. They want people who vote as they are told by the TV or newspaper “voter guides”. They want people who will vote because someone told them they will get something free. They want people who vote because their teachers told them what they should vote for. They want people who will vote for them because they tell them that the other candidate hates them.

It’s not a coincidence that Bernie has so many “young” supporters. They would like to lower the voting age to 12. It’s not because they have worldly experience and wisdom.

Best comprehensive realistic statement on this thread so far and absolute fact. They are manipulating predator opportunists and we facilitate it without much more thought about what we are actually facilitating.

[nobody's_hero]

What do the powers that be want in voters? Ignorance. Thus they want as many people voting as possible, as this will increase the number of ignorant voters. Who tends to be ignorant (lack of knowledge about how things work)? Young people. People new to the nation. People who have no interest in politics, economics, cause and effect, liberty, etc., and would not vote unless it is almost forced upon them. Get them to the polls!

They want people who will vote based on the D or R after their names. They want people who vote purely on name recognition. They want people who vote as they are told by the TV or newspaper “voter guides”. They want people who will vote because someone told them they will get something free. They want people who vote because their teachers told them what they should vote for. They want people who will vote for them because they tell them that the other candidate hates them.

It’s not a coincidence that Bernie has so many “young” supporters. They would like to lower the voting age to 12. It’s not because they have worldly experience and wisdom.


I regret that somewhere I must have given you a +rep for a post you made recently, and this one is even more deserving, but alas, "must spread some blah blah blah . . ."


It feels like I'm forced to wait 10 years to +rep someone again.

Universal suffrage was a huge mistake but I guess that cat's out of the bag. I guess if we ever get to start over again we should put it back on property owners / people who actually have something to lose.

[ATruepatriot]

Yeah, that's me...stinking of fear and convulsing my boots.

After all these years brother, I hate to think that's what you think of me.

Yes, I am afraid.

I am afraid of what I see happening to my home.

Mostly I am afraid for what will become of some very pleasant and fun to be around children of mine, and what will be left for them and the world they will live in, as second class citizens under total surveillance.

I wish I had your faith, to say "It's all up to God anyway, so burn it all down, the sooner the better".

But I don't.

I picked a bone and got involved when my first Grandchild was born. Now I have 11 to fight for because they can't do it for themselves and it might be too late by the time they can. The debt they now owe alone is absolute Bullshit and worth fighting over. I will give my life for my Grandchildren's liberty and economic future in a heartbeat. And this reality is not to be brushed off and taken lightly because I am not the only one.

[A Son of Liberty]

Yeah, that's me...stinking of fear and convulsing my boots.

After all these years brother, I hate to think that's what you think of me.

Yes, I am afraid.

I am afraid of what I see happening to my home.

Mostly I am afraid for what will become of some very pleasant and fun to be around children of mine, and what will be left for them and the world they will live in, as second class citizens under total surveillance.

I wish I had your faith, to say "It's all up to God anyway, so burn it all down, the sooner the better".

But I don't.

Two things can be true at the same time, you know?

Just because the barbarians are at the gate does not necessitate throwing in with the barbarians BEHIND the gate.

As much as most people (and a disappointing number here) want you to believe that it is so, the fact is that we do not live in a monochromatic world.

[nobody's_hero]

Two things can be true at the same time, you know?

Just because the barbarians are at the gate does not necessitate throwing in with the barbarians BEHIND the gate.

As much as most people (and a disappointing number here) want you to believe that it is so, the fact is that we do not live in a monochromatic world.

That works both ways, you know.

Just because the barbarians are behind the gate does not necessitate throwing in with the barbarians AT the gate.


Pick your poison, huh.

[A Son of Liberty]

That works both ways, you know.

Just because the barbarians are behind the gate does not necessitate throwing in with the barbarians AT the gate.


Pick your poison, huh.

Well yeah, for sure.

Hey - here's an idea! Let's stand on principle!

Now, I know that sounds crazy, but hear me out: BELIEVE IN SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY SUBSTANTIATE.

You're pushing the ocean back with a broom if you think you've got a chance playing ball with the black/white political spectrum.

It is STUNNING that even needs to be said HERE, after all we've been through.

[Swordsmyth]

There is supposed to be a Constitution that prevents Government OR Voters from infringing on the rights of others.

And yet,,,
There are Gun Laws..

There is Theft for Government programs that should not exist..

And there is a Standing Army kicking in doors and Killing Americans every day..

and you worry about someone locked in a cage by an Authoritarian structure voting for more abuse.


just wow :(
I worry about them because they will make all the things that concern you much worse.

[Swordsmyth]

Well yeah, for sure.

Hey - here's an idea! Let's stand on principle!

Now, I know that sounds crazy, but hear me out: BELIEVE IN SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY SUBSTANTIATE.

You're pushing the ocean back with a broom if you think you've got a chance playing ball with the black/white political spectrum.

It is STUNNING that even needs to be said HERE, after all we've been through.
Just surrendering is the cowards way out.

REAL faith can move mountains.

[Swordsmyth]

I regret that somewhere I must have given you a +rep for a post you made recently, and this one is even more deserving, but alas, "must spread some blah blah blah . . ."
Covered



Universal suffrage was a huge mistake but I guess that cat's out of the bag. I guess if we ever get to start over again we should put it back on property owners / people who actually have something to lose.
I think just eliminating anyone who gets a penny of government money (except the military) and felons and raising the voting age to 30 would be enough.
I'm also open to debate about taking the vote away from women.

[ATruepatriot]

Covered


I think just eliminating anyone who gets a penny of government money (except the military) and felons and raising the voting age to 30 would be enough.
I'm also open to debate about taking the vote away from women.

That's hardcore man... lol

[Swordsmyth]

That's hardcore man... lol
You gotta go hardcore if you want liberty to last after we restore it.

[TheCount]

I agree but many of them would have gone into some other actually criminal line of work and ended up as felons anyway.

I am all for total restoration of rights to a pristine state for fake crimes but allowing actual felons to vote WHILE INCARCERATED is beyond insanity, I am against letting actual felons vote after they get out because they have demonstrated their moral turpitude.


The SS's posts throughout this thread, the above the most egregious example, are the end state of any worldview in which it is believed that a man's nature is somehow innate and unchangeable. Criminals are criminals because they are criminals. They were born to be criminals, and even if they were not jailed for one crime, it is inevitable that they would be jailed for another, because they are criminals.

It's a perfect tautology.

[TheCount]

I think just eliminating anyone who gets a penny of government money (except the military)

LOL

[ATruepatriot]

You gotta go hardcore if you want liberty to last after we restore it.

John Wayne in the movie Rooster Cogburn said after a fight with the strong headed Katharine Hepburn... "God help us if they ever give them the vote!"

[Swordsmyth]

The SS's posts throughout this thread, the above the most egregious example, are the end state of any worldview in which it is believed that a man's nature is somehow innate and unchangeable. Criminals are criminals because they are criminals. They were born to be criminals, and even if they were not jailed for one crime, it is inevitable that they would be jailed for another, because they are criminals.

It's a perfect tautology.
That's garbage, these people have shown that they wanted easy money whether it was illegal or not, many of them would have gone into other kinds of crime if drugs were legal and not a source of easy money.

I also say over and over that they should be restored to pristine status if they were convicted of fake crimes and then those that would not have gone to prison for something else will not and they will be allowed to vote.

[Swordsmyth]

John Wayne in the movie Rooster Cogburn said after a fight with the strong headed Katharine Hepburn... "God help us if they ever give them the vote!"
And he was absolutely right.

[Swordsmyth]

LOL
So you think people should be sent to kill and die by leaders they had no say in choosing?

[TheCount]

So you think people should be sent to kill and die by leaders they had no say in choosing?

So you think that all functions of the government should be fulfilled by the military?

[Swordsmyth]

So you think that all functions of the government should be fulfilled by the military?
Where did I say anything like that?

[TheCount]

these people have shown that they wanted easy money whether it was illegal or not, many of them would have gone into other kinds of crime if drugs were legal and not a source of easy money.

You just agreed that it shouldn't be or have been illegal.



I also say over and over that they should be restored to pristine status if they were convicted of fake crimes and then those that would not have gone to prison for something else will not and they will be allowed to vote.

This is where you, a statist, want to give the government the power to decide who should be able to vote and who should not be able to vote based upon something that is entirely arbitrary.


To your post and worldview I say:

That's garbage

[TheCount]

Where did I say anything like that?

You can find the answer to your question in the same place where I said anything like this:


So you think people should be sent to kill and die by leaders they had no say in choosing?

[Swordsmyth]

You just agreed that it shouldn't be or have been illegal.
So?
Their attitude towards the law is what matters, making something illegal usually makes it outrageously profitable and those who have criminal tendencies are attracted to it.
If drugs weren't illegal many of those convicted of drug crimes would have done something that should be illegal like burglary to chase easy money.





This is where you, a statist, want to give the government the power to decide who should be able to vote and who should not be able to vote based upon something that is entirely arbitrary.
It's not arbitrary, people with criminal tendencies vote for criminal government to do their stealing for them and to go soft on their actual crimes, they should not be able to do so if you care about the liberty of the citizens.

[Swordsmyth]

You can find the answer to your question in the same place where I said anything like this:
You laughed at the idea of allowing the military to vote as the single exception to the rule that those who receive government money can't vote.

Just what do you mean by that?
Are you saying that others who receive government money should be able to vote even though they have a conflict of interest?
Or are you saying that people who will be sent to kill and die should have no say in the people who will make that decision?

[pcosmar]

The SS's posts throughout this thread, the above the most egregious example, are the end state of any worldview in which it is believed that a man's nature is somehow innate and unchangeable. Criminals are criminals because they are criminals. They were born to be criminals, and even if they were not jailed for one crime, it is inevitable that they would be jailed for another, because they are criminals.

It's a perfect tautology.

It is the De Humanizing necessary to be a Guard..

And I knew men that couldn't do that,,, and became something else.

[TheCount]

So?
Their attitude towards the law is what matters

Statist.




If drugs weren't illegal many of those convicted of drug crimes would have done something that should be illegal like burglary to chase easy money.


That's garbage



It's not arbitrary, people with criminal tendencies vote for criminal government to do their stealing for them and to go soft on their actual crimes, they should not be able to do so if you care about the liberty of the citizens.

Will people who receive speeding tickets lose their voting rights?

How about infractions for littering?

Smoking in a non-smoking area?

[TheCount]

It is the De Humanizing necessary to be a Guard..

And I knew men that couldn't do that,,, and became something else.

It's clear that he believes himself to be his neighbor's keeper and greatly desires the power to lord over him in every way.

[Swordsmyth]

Statist.
LOL
Not wanting people who have criminal tendencies to vote for criminal government doesn't make me a statist.
Wanting them to makes YOU one.










Will people who receive speeding tickets lose their voting rights?

How about infractions for littering?

Smoking in a non-smoking area?
Are those legitimate felonies?

[Swordsmyth]

It is the De Humanizing necessary to be a Guard..

And I knew men that couldn't do that,,, and became something else.


It's clear that he believes himself to be his neighbor's keeper and greatly desires the power to lord over him in every way.
LOL

I'm talking about how to preserve everyone's rights and keep people from being elected who want what you idiotically accuse me of.

Isaiah 5:20 “Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!”

King James Version (KJV)

[TheCount]

You laughed at the idea of allowing the military to vote as the single exception to the rule that those who receive government money can't vote.

Just what do you mean by that?
Are you saying that others who receive government money should be able to vote even though they have a conflict of interest?
Or are you saying that people who will be sent to kill and die should have no say in the people who will make that decision?

If you don't want me to put words in your mouth, don't put yours in mine.



Take a moment to think about the end state of the system that you suggest to create. In a country in which the members of the military have more political power than other members of the government, what will happen? Let me offer two possibilities and you can tell me which is more realistic:

1) The government gives up its power voluntarily
2) The government maintains its power by growing the military to such a size that it constitutes the entire government

[Swordsmyth]

If you don't want me to put words in your mouth, don't put yours in mine.



Take a moment to think about the end state of the system that you suggest to create. In a country in which the members of the military have more political power than other members of the government, what will happen? Let me offer two possibilities and you can tell me which is more realistic:

1) The government gives up its power voluntarily
2) The government maintains its power by growing the military to such a size that it constitutes the entire government
3 There are far more civilians who vote to limit government.

[TheCount]

LOL
Not wanting people who have criminal tendencies to vote for criminal government doesn't make me a statist.
Wanting them to makes YOU one.

The statist part is where you believe that laws should be respected and obeyed even if they are unjust.




Are those legitimate felonies?
No, they're not. Thank you for pointing that out. There are some crimes which will cause the person to lose their rights and others which do not have the same effect. And the difference between those crimes is

something that is entirely arbitrary.

[pcosmar]

Are those legitimate felonies?

Pissing in an alley is... and a sex crime to boot..

I saw a young man go from a year in County for minor burglary,, to life in prison.
Due to the system mostly.



so,, How has Ollie North been as Head of the NRA?

[TheCount]

3 There are far more civilians who vote to limit government.

Where do these 'more civilians' come from?

[Swordsmyth]

The statist part is where you believe that laws should be respected and obeyed even if they are unjust.
I didn't say that, I said many of the people who broke the law would have broken other laws in pursuit of easy money, I didn't even say all or most of them would.





No, they're not. Thank you for pointing that out. There are some crimes which will cause the person to lose their rights and others which do not have the same effect. And the difference between those crimes is

something that is entirely arbitrary.

No it's not, you have been here long enough to know the difference between crimes with actual victims who are actually harmed and fake crimes.

[Swordsmyth]

Where do these 'more civilians' come from?
They are all the people who don't get government money and they outnumber the members of the military.

[pcosmar]

Isaiah 5:20 “Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!”



Don't Laugh..
And READ THAT AGAIN.


“The Spirit of the Lord is on Me, because He has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim deliverance to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to release the oppressed,


The Spirit of the Lord GOD is on Me, because the LORD has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and release from darkness to the prisoners, to proclaim the year of the LORD’s favor and the day of our God’s vengeance, to comfort all who mourn,…

You are just pedaling Elitist Garbage..

The same Elitist Garbage that Master Races are made of.

[Swordsmyth]

Pissing in an alley is... and a sex crime to boot..
That doesn't sound legitimate to me.
Maybe you are the statist.


I saw a young man go from a year in County for minor burglary,, to life in prison.
Due to the system mostly.

That's terrible, the system should be changed.
I doesn't mean thieves should be allowed to vote though.



so,, How has Ollie North been as Head of the NRA?
Terrible, what has that got to do with anything?

[Swordsmyth]

Don't Laugh..
And READ THAT AGAIN.




You are just pedaling Elitist Garbage..

The same Elitist Garbage that Master Races are made of.
That has nothing to do with letting real criminals vote, it is about letting the oppressed and persecuted out of prison, real criminals will be punished by the LORD and they will not be given a say in running government.

Even if you twist the scripture to apply it to real felons it still says nothing about letting them vote so they can use government to steal.

[pcosmar]

Terrible, what has that got to do with anything?
Because that Known Criminal is Celebrated..

By Many of the Criminals in Government.

[Swordsmyth]

Because that Known Criminal is Celebrated..

By Many of the Criminals in Government.
Why do want to let him vote?

[pcosmar]

Why do want to let him vote?

I suspect he has more than one vote..

I thought he should have been immediately dragged from Congress and shot against the nearest wall.

but that is not the righteous world we live in.

[TheCount]

I didn't say that

Yes you did. You said that, even if a law was unjust and that an act should not have been illegal, that:

Their attitude towards the law is what matters

You are a statist. This isn't some new revelation, of course; you display your statist tendencies in every post. You believe that blind loyalty to the orders of the state is a virtue and that any deviation from that displays a character flaw, which you describe as

criminal tendencies

Again, you said this in the context of a law which you agreed was unjust and for which there should have been no punishment.




I said many of the people who broke the law would have broken other laws in pursuit of easy money, I didn't even say all or most of them would.

We can also discuss your apparent belief in punishment for crimes which people did not commit but which you believe that would commit given the chance, if you'd like. This is directly what I referred to earlier when I said:

The SS's posts throughout this thread, the above the most egregious example, are the end state of any worldview in which it is believed that a man's nature is somehow innate and unchangeable. Criminals are criminals because they are criminals. They were born to be criminals, and even if they were not jailed for one crime, it is inevitable that they would be jailed for another, because they are criminals.

You pretended to disagree, but every single one of your posts confirms that I am right.



the difference between crimes with actual victims who are actually harmed and fake crimes.

That is not the definition of felony and misdemeanor.

[TheCount]

They are all the people who don't get government money and they outnumber the members of the military.

People who don't get government money already outnumber members of the government.

And yet the things that you believe should happen do not happen.

[UWDude]

What do the powers that be want in voters? Ignorance. Thus they want as many people voting as possible, as this will increase the number of ignorant voters. Who tends to be ignorant (lack of knowledge about how things work)? Young people. People new to the nation. People who have no interest in politics, economics, cause and effect, liberty, etc., and would not vote unless it is almost forced upon them. Get them to the polls!

They want people who will vote based on the D or R after their names. They want people who vote purely on name recognition. They want people who vote as they are told by the TV or newspaper “voter guides”. They want people who will vote because someone told them they will get something free. They want people who vote because their teachers told them what they should vote for. They want people who will vote for them because they tell them that the other candidate hates them.

It’s not a coincidence that Bernie has so many “young” supporters. They would like to lower the voting age to 12. It’s not because they have worldly experience and wisdom.

Prison news is heavily censored.
Makes them vote slaves.
State controls the information, voter reacts predictably.

[Swordsmyth]

Yes you did. You said that, even if a law was unjust and that an act should not have been illegal, that:

That is not the same thing, their attitude towards the law matters as far as my prediction that many of them would have engaged in other criminal activities, that doesn't mean that unjust laws must be obeyed.



You are a statist. This isn't some new revelation, of course; you display your statist tendencies in every post. You believe that blind loyalty to the orders of the state is a virtue and that any deviation from that displays a character flaw, which you describe as

Again, you said this in the context of a law which you agreed was unjust and for which there should have been no punishment.
That's garbage, the only people I described as having criminal tendencies are those that committed actual crimes like burglary, rape and murder.







We can also discuss your apparent belief in punishment for crimes which people did not commit but which you believe that would commit given the chance, if you'd like. This is directly what I referred to earlier when I said:
More garbage, I have repeatedly said that those convicted of phony crimes should be exonerated and restored to pristine status, I just predicted that many of them would then commit crimes because they wanted easy money and didn't mind breaking the law to get it.



You pretended to disagree, but every single one of your posts confirms that I am right.
LOL






That is not the definition of felony and misdemeanor.
If that is what you want to discuss then it doesn't matter, there are clear logical differences between crimes that should be felonies and crimes that should be misdemeanors and even if some of them are a matter of degree that is somewhat arbitrary it makes no difference, people make judgements on matters of degree all the time and we have to, someone who punches people in the mouth for insulting them is not the same as someone who stabs people with a knife for beating them at a game of cards and it is entirely appropriate for the second man to receive greater punishment including the loss of franchise.

[Swordsmyth]

People who don't get government money already outnumber members of the government.

And yet the things that you believe should happen do not happen.
They would happen a lot less if the government workers couldn't vote and if they had not been able to vote all along our culture would not have been perverted to the extent that it has.

Perfection is not possible but we can tilt the odds in favor of liberty.

[Anti Federalist]

Yah, OK... so this asshole deserves the same say so in how this country is run as I do. (https://www.kcra.com/article/california-killer-beheading-torturing-cellmate/27290827)

https://media.breitbart.com/media/2019/04/Jaime-Osuna-California-Department-Corrections-Rehabilitation-640x480.jpg

While in prison.

GTFO...

Anybody who thinks that is fucking nuts.

[pcosmar]

Yah, OK... so this $#@! deserves the same say so in how this country is run as I do. (https://www.kcra.com/article/california-killer-beheading-torturing-cellmate/27290827)

https://media.breitbart.com/media/2019/04/Jaime-Osuna-California-Department-Corrections-Rehabilitation-640x480.jpg

While in prison.

GTFO...

Anybody who thinks that is $#@!ing nuts.

Not in favor while in Prison,, for several reasons.

In County waiting Trial,, (innocent till proven)
and After time is served.

It should be automatic,,and is in a few.. It is not in all.. and it should be.

There is more Reform Needed of Both Justice and Prisons systems, and will likely be given nothing but Lip Service.

[pcosmar]

Not in favor while in Prison,, for several reasons.

In County waiting Trial,, (innocent till proven)
and After time is served.

It should be automatic,,and is in a few.. It is not in all.. and it should be.

There is more Reform Needed of Both Justice and Prisons systems, and will likely be given nothing but Lip Service.

I want to see profit motive taken from the system,,, and this adds more.

[Anti Federalist]

Not in favor while in Prison,, for several reasons.

Oh, I know, but that is what Sanders and some of other Bolshevik mob are clamoring for.

https://grrrgraphics.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/bernie_voting_trend.jpg

[nobody's_hero]

Well yeah, for sure.

Hey - here's an idea! Let's stand on principle!

Now, I know that sounds crazy, but hear me out: BELIEVE IN SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY SUBSTANTIATE.

You're pushing the ocean back with a broom if you think you've got a chance playing ball with the black/white political spectrum.

It is STUNNING that even needs to be said HERE, after all we've been through.

You're not gonna get rid of the spectrum. There will always be left versus right. Conservative versus liberal. Whigs versus Tories (yes, even before America was a nation, there was an "us versus them").

I hate to bust bubbles, but you will die sh*#%ting yourself in a nursing home and mumbling incoherently before the majority of people in America give up the "us versus them" mentality and come together with much hand-holding and singing to restore liberty in America. I'll admit, it makes for a good movie scene—and when I saw Berkeley kids climbing trees to hear Ron Paul talk, I once thought it might happen —but it ain't gonna happen.

I've said it once and I'll say it again: Embrace it and figure out how to use it to your advantage.

[Anti Federalist]

You're not gonna get rid of the spectrum. There will always be left versus right. Conservative versus liberal. Whigs versus Tories (yes, even before America was a nation, there was an "us versus them").

I hate to bust bubbles, but you will die sh*#%ting yourself in a nursing home and mumbling incoherently before the majority of people in America give up the "us versus them" mentality and come together with much hand-holding and singing to restore liberty in America. I'll admit, it makes for a good movie scene—and when I saw Berkeley kids climbing trees to hear Ron Paul talk, I once thought it might happen —but it ain't gonna happen.

I've said it once and I'll say it again: Embrace it and figure out how to use it to your advantage.

Common sense +rep

[pcosmar]

Prison news is heavily censored.
Makes them vote slaves.
State controls the information, voter reacts predictably.

Of the many drawbacks.

a very controlled voting Block as well ,, to be used by any one else. and that gives more reason to pump up the number..


Prison reform is used for political purposes without much reform ever happening.
Usually only Growth.

[pcosmar]

I've said it once and I'll say it again: Embrace it and figure out how to use it to your advantage.

or watch and see where a wrench might do the most damage when dropped.

options

[Swordsmyth]

You're not gonna get rid of the spectrum. There will always be left versus right. Conservative versus liberal. Whigs versus Tories (yes, even before America was a nation, there was an "us versus them").

I hate to bust bubbles, but you will die sh*#%ting yourself in a nursing home and mumbling incoherently before the majority of people in America give up the "us versus them" mentality and come together with much hand-holding and singing to restore liberty in America. I'll admit, it makes for a good movie scene—and when I saw Berkeley kids climbing trees to hear Ron Paul talk, I once thought it might happen —but it ain't gonna happen.

I've said it once and I'll say it again: Embrace it and figure out how to use it to your advantage.
You can't change human nature.

It's the same mistake that sincere communists make.

[Swordsmyth]

or watch and see where a wrench might do the most damage when dropped.

options
That's a great way to help the enemy, human nature is to turn to those who offer security and leadership when people like you burn the world to the ground.

[pcosmar]

human nature is to turn to those who offer security and leadership

And it has been Damn Stupid ever since Nimrod.

anyone making that offer should be immediately disposed of.

[Swordsmyth]

And it has been Damn Stupid ever since Nimrod.

anyone making that offer should be immediately disposed of.
Israel should have killed the Judges GOD sent them?

[pcosmar]

Israel should have killed the Judges GOD sent them?

The Judges Freed the People from those offering Security and Leadership..

Samson Killed more in his death than in life..

Judges did not rule over the people.

and you might know that if you bothered to read the whole story.

[Swordsmyth]

The Judges Freed the People from those offering Security and Leadership..

Samson Killed more in his death than in life..

Judges did not rule over the people.

and you might know that if you bothered to read the whole story.
LOL

The Judges did rule the people and offer them Security and leadership, you need to read more of the Bible than just the parts that suit you.

[pcosmar]

LOL

The Judges did rule the people and offer them Security and leadership, you need to read more of the Bible than just the parts that suit you.

God gave them security when they followed Him,, and allowed oppressors (security and Leadership) when the strayed from Him..

He Raised Judges to Judge the Oppressors.

Forget the 'bible stories' you were told and read the Book.


Samson said, “Let me die with the Philistines.” Then he pushed with all his might, and the temple fell on the lords and all the people in it. So in his death he killed more than he had killed in his life.

Philistines offered Security and Leadership,, same as the rest.

[Swordsmyth]

God gave them security when they followed Him,, and allowed oppressors (security and Leadership) when the strayed from Him..

He Raised Judges to Judge the Oppressors.

Forget the 'bible stories' you were told and read the Book.



Philistines offered Security and Leadership,, same as the rest.

GOD gave them security and leadership THROUGH the Judges.

Read about all of them and not just Sampson, Sampson was pretty much their worst judge ever.

[TheCount]

That is not the same thing, their attitude towards the law matters as far as my prediction that many of them would have engaged in other criminal activities, that doesn't mean that unjust laws must be obeyed.

If you don't think that unjust laws must be obeyed, then why does the defiance of an unjust law lead you to predict that the person would have engaged in other criminal activities?




That's garbage, the only people I described as having criminal tendencies are those that committed actual crimes like burglary, rape and murder.

You should stick to squirmy nonsense arguments, Wormtongue. It's much less convincing when you blatantly lie.

Here's where you said it:

If drugs weren't illegal many of those convicted of drug crimes would have done something that should be illegal like burglary to chase easy money.




If that is what you want to discuss then it doesn't matter, there are clear logical differences between crimes that should be felonies and crimes that should be misdemeanors and even if some of them are a matter of degree that is somewhat arbitrary

See? Weasel-word nonsense works so much better.

[Swordsmyth]

If you don't think that unjust laws must be obeyed, then why does the defiance of an unjust law lead you to predict that the person would have engaged in other criminal activities?
Because many of the people who are willing to break one law in return for high profits will be willing to break another, some of them amy only have broken the law because it was unjust but many broke it simply for the money without caring about whether it was unjust or not.






You should stick to squirmy nonsense arguments, Wormtongue. It's much less convincing when you blatantly lie.

Here's where you said it:

That's not the same thing, I can't certify that any of those people have criminal tendencies until they break some other law and I said that they should be allowed to vote after being pardoned because of that.

[Wooden Indian]

Without reading the entire 8 pages to see if anyone else suggested this...

If someone's criminal offense is so violent or atrocious that we cannot trust them to vote, how do we trust them living amongst us after time served?

In Other words:

Either, A- They're too dangerous to ever rejoin society, so they should remain behind bars until their natural demise / executed (different discussion), and they do not vote from prison or the grave.

Or....

B- They are trusted to live among "us" once again, and therefore should be trusted to vote alongside "us" and own firearms, once again.

Boom... Problem solved... whada-eye-win?

The Wooden Injun: 2020

[invisible]

Pay no attention to Venezuela. Hey, look, isn't that willie horton over there?!?

[Swordsmyth]

Without reading the entire 8 pages to see if anyone else suggested this...

If someone's criminal offense is so violent or atrocious that we cannot trust them to vote, how do we trust them living amongst us after time served?

In Other words:

Either, A- They're too dangerous to ever rejoin society, so they should remain behind bars until their natural demise / executed (different discussion), and they do not vote from prison or the grave.

Or....

B- They are trusted to live among "us" once again, and therefore should be trusted to vote alongside "us" and own firearms, once again.

Boom... Problem solved... whada-eye-win?

The Wooden Injun: 2020
It's been suggested, I understand that point of view and I absolutely agree about the guns part but I believe that those with serious criminal tendencies can't be entrusted with the power of government.

[Swordsmyth]

https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1122979118759288832

1122979118759288832

[pcosmar]

https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1122979118759288832


Even over the top for most "D"s.

[TheCount]

It's been suggested, I understand that point of view and I absolutely agree about the guns part but I believe that those with serious criminal tendencies can't be entrusted with the power of government.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/IyezO5ulCXNmmrS1ZQDDp5za1R0=/1484x0/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/273DHRTCUMI6TH7SVPEYJXE65Q.jpg

[Swordsmyth]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/IyezO5ulCXNmmrS1ZQDDp5za1R0=/1484x0/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/273DHRTCUMI6TH7SVPEYJXE65Q.jpg

List his felony convictions.

[pcosmar]

Pay no attention to Venezuela. Hey, look, isn't that willie horton over there?!?

Alumni

https://www.missouripentours.com/images/842/photo/sonny_347.jpg


Charles “Sonny” Liston – In 1950, Charles Liston arrived at the Missouri State Penitentiary. He was serving time for two charges of robbery with a deadly weapon and two charges of larceny. Liston was illiterate, one of 17 children, and had rarely held a job. While incarcerated, Liston, soon known as “Sonny,” found his niche in life; he learned to box, and he fought very well. One day the publisher of a St. Louis newspaper saw Liston box and thought he showed promise as a professional. The next day he contacted the Board of Probation and Parole. If Liston could be released on parole, the publisher promised, he would personally see that Sonny received a job and training as a boxer. So Sonny Liston was released on parole in 1952 and his rise to success was meteoric. He learned to read and write a bit and his associations with businessmen and managers taught him grooming and polish. He lived and trained at the Pine Street YMCA and began working at Scullins Steel until he could support himself from his earning as a pro boxer. Almost immediately, Liston was entered into the Golden Gloves Amateur Boxing Tournament, held in St. Louis. He won, and then went on to win the National Heavyweight Championship in Chicago in 1953.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/missouri-state-penitentiary

[TheCount]

List his felony convictions.
So you would say that no president has ever had criminal tendencies?

Interesting.

[Swordsmyth]

So you would say that no president has ever had criminal tendencies?

Interesting.
I didn't say that.

[CCTelander]

List his felony convictions.


Moving the goalposts eh? Tendencies have become convictions now? Typically disingenuous.

[Swordsmyth]

Moving the goalposts eh? Tendencies have become convictions now. Typically disingenuous.
LOL

The only people I said for sure had criminal tendencies were those that had been convicted of legitimate felonies and they are the only ones I said should not be allowed to vote.

You are moving the goalposts and accusing me of doing so at the same time, that's some pretty heavy spin.

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FNKlDC9P vlL8I0%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1

[Origanalist]

It's been suggested, I understand that point of view and I absolutely agree about the guns part but I believe that those with serious criminal tendencies can't be entrusted with the power of government.

Your every other post is sig material. Who the hell do you think we have in government, boy scouts?

[Origanalist]

LOL

The only people I said for sure had criminal tendencies were those that had been convicted of legitimate felonies and they are the only ones I said should not be allowed to vote.

You are moving the goalposts and accusing me of doing so at the same time, that's some pretty heavy spin.

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FNKlDC9P vlL8I0%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1

And like usual, you're totally full of shit.

[Swordsmyth]

Your every other post is sig material. Who the hell do you think we have in government, boy scouts?
We can't exclude people until they are caught and convicted.

Why would we want to leave the people who have been caught and convicted in the voter/candidate pool?

[Swordsmyth]

And like usual, you're totally full of $#@!.
Show me where I have said that anyone but those convicted of legitimate felonies should be excluded from voting or holding office because they have criminal tendencies.

[Origanalist]

Show me where I have said that anyone but those convicted of legitimate felonies should be excluded from voting or holding office because they have criminal tendencies.

Don't try your stupid word games with me boy.

[Swordsmyth]

Don't try your stupid word games with me boy.
LOL

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FNKlDC9P vlL8I0%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1

[Wooden Indian]

It's been suggested, I understand that point of view and I absolutely agree about the guns part but I believe that those with serious criminal tendencies can't be entrusted with the power of government.

My point being that if they truly have displayed and been convicted of these "serious criminal tendencies", to the point they cannot be trusted at a voting booth, why do we trust them living among our loved ones?

If they're so bad they can't vote or possess firearms, why are they not in a cage or dead?

[Anti Federalist]

My point being that if they truly have displayed and been convicted of these "serious criminal tendencies", to the point they cannot be trusted at a voting booth, why do we trust them living among our loved ones?

If they're so bad they can't vote or possess firearms, why are they not in a cage or dead?

That's a legitimate point, worthy of discussion.

Voting isn't a "right".

I am for having persons convicted, once having served their sentence, having all "natural" rights restored.

But that's not what is being proposed here.

Bernie and the rest of the Bolshevik/Jacobin mob want prisoners voting, while still in prison.

[Swordsmyth]

My point being that if they truly have displayed and been convicted of these "serious criminal tendencies", to the point they cannot be trusted at a voting booth, why do we trust them living among our loved ones?

If they're so bad they can't vote or possess firearms, why are they not in a cage or dead?
I see the possibility that they can be trusted with firearms and all of their other rights but not the power of government, government is not only more powerful than owning your own guns but it also confers a seductive element of legitimacy to whatever crimes you direct it to commit on your behalf.

[Swordsmyth]

Florida lawmakers on Friday approved a measure barring people with felony convictions from registering to vote unless they first pay fines, court fees and restitution that can amount to thousands of dollars.

The state's House of Representatives approved the bill 67-42 on Friday, a day after it passed the Senate, and it now goes to Governor Ron DeSantis's desk.
"We do believe in restoration, we do believe in second chances. We also believe in debts being paid," said Representative James Grant, the sponsor of the measure in the Florida House.
"I think the product that you're seeing has been an effort to reconcile those two things and make sure that when somebody has paid their debt to society they are able to return to vote," Grant told the local WCTV channel.

After hours of debate, lawmakers reached an agreement under which judges will be able to waive the payments, or allow ex-convicts to pay their debts through community service.

More at: https://news.yahoo.com/florida-lawmakers-approve-bill-erecting-barrier-ex-felons-002319851.html

[enhanced_deficit]

How did Bolsheviks manage to take over control of GOP? (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?534157-How-did-Bolsheviks-manage-to-take-over-control-of-GOP&)

[TheTexan]

As opposed to people who haven't been convicted stealing from you? Guess what? We're all felons whether we know or not or whether or not we've been caught. Are you sure you've never committed a felony? I'm pretty sure I have.

The only two people I can say for sure have never committed a felony are myself, and Trump.

We're both squeaky clean as a whistle :toady:

[oyarde]

The only two people I can say for sure have never committed a felony are myself, and Trump.

We're both squeaky clean as a whistle :toady:

I know a lot of people who have never been caught .

[heavenlyboy34]

The only two people I can say for sure have never committed a felony are myself, and Trump.

We're both squeaky clean as a whistle :toady:

Well, you know me and I've also never committed a felony. There's 3. :) :toady:

[PAF]

It is not Left versus Right -- it is Liberty versus Tyranny.


I do not condone voting outside of local areas. I believe that every Right should be up upheld (through education) and violators of Natural Rights should be fully punished.


As far as those in prison, and restoration of Rights, WE are paying an enormous amount of money representing and incarcerating millions of innocent people over stupid laws that the government illegally imposes, one example being marijuana, among hundreds of other things.


The problem becomes, once in prison, they are mandated to "check a box" on a job application, which discriminates somebody from actually wanting to work in order to not live off of the system. This also affects their ability to rent, apply for a personal/business loan, etc. Without an opportunity to work and earn a wage, they are most certainly guaranteed to return to the streets only to be picked up by "Law Enforcement" and sent back to prison again.

I do not care about who started this campaign, but IMO it will lead to more people working and less living off of the system. Once we tackle that problem, we can move to the next:


Ban The Box Campaign:

http://bantheboxcampaign.org/




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKDvbufS8o4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKDvbufS8o4

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I thought you get to vote a year or two after you're released from prison? Am I retarded?

[Ender]

So, paying for one's crime never ceases?

That's called tyranny.

[TheTexan]

I've also never committed a felony.


ya_sure_ok.GIF

[heavenlyboy34]

ya_sure_ok.GIF
https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tenor.co%2Fimages%2Fe3767e9 c55ca6150f163758aaf105341%2Fraw&f=1

[enhanced_deficit]

MAGA , BLM activists, Kim Kardashian, MAGA son in law Kushner all get credit for showing bold leadership on prison reforms and voting right reforms.

Trump hosts Black Lives Matter activist at the White House

https://cscs.uqam.ca/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2016/04/BLackLivesMatter-700x300.jpg


Click here to view the original image of 785x346px.
https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2017-10/26/9/asset/buzzfeed-prod-fastlane-03/sub-buzz-22729-1509022941-3.png?downsize=700

[enhanced_deficit]

You would rather have a say in choosing people who will violate more of your rights than no say in choosing people who will violate less of them?

It's not like you didn't make choices that put you in a disqualified category either.


I thought this movement believed in a Republic and individual rights?
We are small d democrats now?


Not all, maybe around 30% and could jump to 40-50% of "we" by 2020.
Are you opposed to that?

EM.



The Number of Democrats Showing Up at Trump Rallies Is Stunning

https://www.redstate.com/elizabeth-vaughn/2019/11/04/number-democrats-showing-trump-rallies-stunning/

“Of the 16,432 voters who provided data, 27% were Democrats. “

“ The data also showed that 20% were black.”

There is a LANDSLIDE that will happen.


Just as Trump embraced woke culture, Obama turns against it (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?540836-Just-as-Trump-embraced-woke-culture-Obama-turns-against-it&)