Regarding Reparations for Slavery – Be Careful What You Ask For

[ATruepatriot]

However, if liberals and race-baiting interests insist on reparations, then let’s talk about this. What would widespread reparations really need to be? Will there be a discussion on reparations to the descendants of white slaves? Yes, they existed, they worked in different levels of involuntary servitude in the American colonies. Check out White Cargo or do a casual Google search for more information.

What about for the hundreds of thousands of (white) men who died on fields of battle to end slavery. Where are their reparations? OK, they all died. What about for their children, or the extended families of these men who died so that men would live free on American soil? Many children lost their fathers on those fields. They sacrificed a great deal, too. They lost so much because of slavery.

Are reparationists going to confront the American Indian tribes which had enslaved black people, especially those tribes which insisted on holding onto black slaves even after the Civil War ended? As one of many political inconvenient truths about the slave trade, American Indians enslaved black people, sold them, and stole the fruit of their labor. It’s astonishing to learn that many of the native groups refused to give up their slaves even after the passage of the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments!

Besides all of this, former slaves already received reparations. After the Civil War, black freedman received 40 acres and a mule because of “radical” Republicans, whose party had opposed slavery from their inception. Those same reparations were later denied to black slaves when Democrats came to power in Washington, D.C. and throughout the Post-Bellum South. In fact, it was the Democratic Party that renewed the push for involuntary servitude in the early 1800s. Five years before the outbreak of the Civil War, the Democratic Party was talking about allowing the re-importation of black slaves in the United States, which had been banned after 1808. When will the Democratic Party draw from its own campaign coffers and start paying back all the harm that they perpetrated against black people? If people are clamoring for reparations for slavery, they should pound on the DNC’s door and shout “Pay Up!”

What a strange irony: Democratic Party Presidential candidates want to enact reparations, but it was their party that reinvigorated the slave trade, that made a business out of stealing labor from working people and giving it to those who do not work. For those clamoring for reparations, be careful what you wish for!

https://barbwire.com/regarding-reparations-for-slavery-be-careful-what-you-ask-for/

[AngryCanadian]

Why should Ordinary Americans who had no slaves be the ones to pay for Reparations for Slavery when the 1% of the rich people were the ones who had more slaves then the ordinary American people in the past?
This would be like Demanding for the Ottomans for Reparations of owning slavery in Eastern Europe and the Balkans. But according to the white 1% leftists "Whites are only responsible for slavery right?"

[ATruepatriot]

Why should Ordinary Americans who had no slaves be the ones to pay for Reparations for Slavery when the 1% of the rich people were the ones who had more slaves then the ordinary American people in the past?
This would be like Demanding for the Ottomans for Reparations of owning slavery in Eastern Europe and the Balkans. But according to the white 1% leftists "Whites are only responsible for slavery right?"

It's completely irrational and yet again another lie they can never make happen. More emotional manipulation and exploitation. When are they going to figure out they are just being played as fools by the same party who has done it many many times now.

[bv3]

This isn't going to make me popular here:

It is a fact that many black Americans live through an American tragedy. Just look at the statistics. Imagine growing up in an incredibly violent place, with maybe one father for every hundred. The drug war, Jim Crowe, this list goes on and on, and trust me: I'm not on some BLM shit here--its just obvious to me.

I say that asking for reparations is a legitimate grievance that can be brought against the US government--that codified chattel slavery, after all, and enforced it violently. However, and this is where we can win: that money that should've gone towards the satisfaction of this legitimate grievance was blown up overseas. Period. The money you were owed was spent blowing up weddings and fucking up American military personnel.

None of this is to say that I support a white tax for reparation, as I am vehemently against such notions for obvious reasons--ethnic guilt, blood guilt, inherited guilt I consider to be concepts less obviously toxic than chattel slavery but in the same class--since such a condition is ascribed at birth. But petitioning the government for a redress of grievance is constitutionally protected, and in this case--or so I believe--entirely appropriate. Too bad the money was blown up overseas, and shipped to other countries as aid, gay frogs, and what are the medical benefits of drinking piss etc et al. ISRAEL-BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF FUCKING AID. No, Americans need that dough--and I would say Black Americans first. They have a legitimate grievance, Israel does not. Not one more dollar for Israel until our domestic brothers and sisters are made whole. The Native's, too.

The only question: How to redress that grievance without creating another (as a white tax of ANY sort would do)?

Reparations or not, there are serious problems in our so-called black communities, and if we are going to pretend to be a nation we should probably actually address them-and not by doing anything they've already been doing which has done nothing to ameliorate the crisis, instead deepened it.

(ducks)

[Superfluous Man]

Besides all of this, former slaves already received reparations. After the Civil War, black freedman received 40 acres and a mule because of “radical” Republicans, whose party had opposed slavery from their inception. Those same reparations were later denied to black slaves when Democrats came to power in Washington, D.C. and throughout the Post-Bellum South.

It wasn't after the Civil War. It was during the Civil War. It wasn't Republicans doing it because they were against slavery. It was General Sherman doing it to provide a temporary emergency place of residence for southern slaves who aided his troops. And it was never meant by him to be a permanent property of those recipients as some kind of reparations for slavery, only to be denied them by later Democrats. It was only intended as a temporary measure for certain specific former slaves all along.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Field_Orders_No._15

[Superfluous Man]

The only question: How to redress that grievance without creating another (as a white tax of ANY sort would do)?


The only way is by the government getting out of their way, and leaving them free to better themselves without it doing any further harm.

[phill4paul]

The War for Federalism against the Free States wasn't fought because of slavery. So just put that notion aside.

As far as reparations go.. how far back? Who should be included? Native Americans? The Irish?

No. Just no. There is not a single individual living in America today that, through their own initiative, cannot rise to great heights.

No to reparations. Reparations have been made. The sons and grandsons, daughters and granddaughters, now live in a nation in which they can rise above. Our current history is replete with those that started out as "disadvantaged" that have become successful. No more victimhood.

[ATruepatriot]

This isn't going to make me popular here:

It is a fact that many black Americans live through an American tragedy. Just look at the statistics. Imagine growing up in an incredibly violent place, with maybe one father for every hundred. The drug war, Jim Crowe, this list goes on and on, and trust me: I'm not on some BLM $#@! here--its just obvious to me.

I say that asking for reparations is a legitimate grievance that can be brought against the US government--that codified chattel slavery, after all, and enforced it violently. However, and this is where we can win: that money that should've gone towards the satisfaction of this legitimate grievance was blown up overseas. Period. The money you were owed was spent blowing up weddings and $#@!ing up American military personnel.

None of this is to say that I support a white tax for reparation, as I am vehemently against such notions for obvious reasons--ethnic guilt, blood guilt, inherited guilt I consider to be concepts less obviously toxic than chattel slavery but in the same class--since such a condition is ascribed at birth. But petitioning the government for a redress of grievance is constitutionally protected, and in this case--or so I believe--entirely appropriate. Too bad the money was blown up overseas, and shipped to other countries as aid, gay frogs, and what are the medical benefits of drinking piss etc et al. ISRAEL-BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF $#@!ING AID. No, Americans need that dough--and I would say Black Americans first. They have a legitimate grievance, Israel does not. Not one more dollar for Israel until our domestic brothers and sisters are made whole. The Native's, too.

The only question: How to redress that grievance without creating another (as a white tax of ANY sort would do)?

Reparations or not, there are serious problems in our so-called black communities, and if we are going to pretend to be a nation we should probably actually address them-and not by doing anything they've already been doing which has done nothing to ameliorate the crisis, instead deepened it.

(ducks)

I completely respect your view. But it will create and perpetuate even more racism and inequality. And what they don't consider is that blacks will be paying for this too. They will still be required to pay taxes into the general fund that will be dispersing this. They are NEVER going to tax just one race, everyone will pay for it including those receiving it. Where would I stand in this? My appearance is white but I am 1/4 Chickasaw. Or so I thought... Just recently found out that one of my Chickasaw ancestors was actually a freeman black and previous slave also herded to Oklahoma with the Cherokee. It's too complicated and will never be done. Just another promise that will be broken after the election and they are allowing themselves to be played as fools. Whether they deserve it or not is irrelevant in the bigger picture because it is never going to happen. Snake oil salesmen selling snake oil.

[ATruepatriot]

The only way is by the government getting out of their way, and leaving them free to better themselves without it doing any further harm.

Yep... That's one right there... :)

[bv3]

The only way is by the government getting out of their way, and leaving them free to better themselves without it doing any further harm.
Yes, thats true, but the grievance still exists.
So if someone kidnaps me, and forces me to work, justice would served by simply ending my condition of servitude? Once freed, I would have no legitimate grievance against my captor?

If someone stole all of my fathers wealth, and he died, I shouldn't have the right to assume that debt? After all, the actual victim is dead. I only lost my inheritance which was stolen from someone else.

Yet, in the common law, people sue on behalf of deceased people all the time.

[Swordsmyth]

The War for Federalism against the Free States wasn't fought because of slavery. So just put that notion aside.

As far as reparations go.. how far back? Who should be included? Native Americans? The Irish?

No. Just no. There is not a single individual living in America today that, through their own initiative, cannot rise to great heights.

No to reparations. Reparations have been made. The sons and grandsons, daughters and granddaughters, now live in a nation in which they can rise above. Our current history is replete with those that started out as "disadvantaged" that have become successful. No more victimhood.
Maybe we should go all the way back to 1066, or 0AD?

[Swordsmyth]

Yes, thats true, but the grievance still exists.
So if someone kidnaps me, and forces me to work, justice would served by simply ending my condition of servitude? Once freed, I would have no legitimate grievance against my captor?

If someone stole all of my fathers wealth, and he died, I shouldn't have the right to assume that debt? After all, the actual victim is dead. I only lost my inheritance which was stolen from someone else.

Yet, in the common law, people sue on behalf of deceased people all the time.
How many generations have to pass on the side of the victim or the perp before we forget about it?

How far back in time do we go?

[Superfluous Man]

How many generations have to pass on the side of the victim or the perp before we forget about it?

How far back in time do we go?

The problem with the entire premise of reparations is that it's not limited by a number of generations back, nor by any objectively quantifiable amount of compensation. It's only limited by economic outcomes under current conditions. No matter how much reparations are paid, as long as unequal economic outcomes obtain, more reparations will said to be needed. And if equalization is never achieved (which it couldn't be), then the call for more reparations will never end. The only way out of that cycle is to pull out from under it that premise.

[ATruepatriot]

There is a personal pride and integrity factor in this also. Being 1/4 Chickasaw I am eligible for a Certificate of degree of Indian blood. But I have the integrity to not take a hand out from other taxpayers, never have and never will. Apparently I am a rare bird...

[bv3]

How many generations have to pass on the side of the victim or the perp before we forget about it?

How far back in time do we go?

I focus more on the legitimacy of the debt than its age.

[ATruepatriot]

Yes, thats true, but the grievance still exists.
So if someone kidnaps me, and forces me to work, justice would served by simply ending my condition of servitude? Once freed, I would have no legitimate grievance against my captor?

If someone stole all of my fathers wealth, and he died, I shouldn't have the right to assume that debt? After all, the actual victim is dead. I only lost my inheritance which was stolen from someone else.

Yet, in the common law, people sue on behalf of deceased people all the time.

If I committed a crime and was given 3 consecutive life sentences, should my kids and my Grandkids make up this prison time after I am gone to settle the debt owed?

[Swordsmyth]

I focus more on the legitimacy of the debt than its age.

The age is very important in determining the legitimacy.

I do not owe anyone for something my G-G-Great Grandfather did.

[bv3]

The age is very important in determining the legitimacy.

I do not owe anyone for something my G-G-Great Grandfather did.

I agree, but if your G G G Grandfather owned a firm that owed a debt, and you inherited that firm, that debt would still be outstanding. You wouldn't owe anything, but the firm still would.

[Swordsmyth]

I agree, but if your G G G Grandfather owned a firm that owed a debt, and you inherited that firm, that debt would still be outstanding. You wouldn't owe anything, but the firm still would.
Which has nothing to do with this topic.

Governments are not businesses and individuals do not have the same control over them or the responsibility that would come from such control.

[bv3]

Which has nothing to do with this topic.

Governments are not businesses and individuals do not have the same control over them or the responsibility that would come from such control.

Yes, but Governments are entities--and one that commits a crime doesn't discharge the accompanying grievance simply because time has passed.

[Superfluous Man]

I think that today's taxpayers should be taxed to pay me reparations for the taxes that were taken from my ancestors.

And tomorrow's taxpayers should be taxed to pay reparations to the descendants of today's taxpayers.

And so on ad infinitum.

[Swordsmyth]

Yes, but Governments are entities--and one that commits a crime doesn't discharge the accompanying grievance simply because time has passed.

Yes it does, how much time is open to debate but I would have no legitimacy in trying to sue the UK for damages done to my Scottish ancestors etc.

[ATruepatriot]

I think that today's taxpayers should be taxed to pay me reparations for the taxes that were taken from my ancestors.

And tomorrow's taxpayers should be taxed to pay reparations to the descendants of today's taxpayers.

And so on ad infinitum.

Lol... Makes as much sense...

[Anti Federalist]

Yes, thats true, but the grievance still exists.
So if someone kidnaps me, and forces me to work, justice would served by simply ending my condition of servitude? Once freed, I would have no legitimate grievance against my captor?

If the state imprisons you falsely, you are not entitled to reparations.

Those however are the only people that deserve it.


If someone stole all of my fathers wealth, and he died, I shouldn't have the right to assume that debt? After all, the actual victim is dead. I only lost my inheritance which was stolen from someone else.

Yet, in the common law, people sue on behalf of deceased people all the time.

If you establish an individual connection, perhaps a case can be made.

I know my family history well, it is well documented, and my people never "stole" native land, it was all bought and paid for fair and square.

Furthermore, nowhere in the family history is there any evidence of the AFs ever owning chattel slaves: black, Irish or otherwise.

Further, furthermore, the AFs fought and bled in the War of Northern Aggression, in the forces of Union, supposedly to pay in full, in blood, whatever collective white debt was owed to black African slaves.

The fedgov will not get a single fucking penny out of me.

If an omnibus "general reparations" bill is passed I will become a full scale tax refusenik...I will never pay another cent again.

[oyarde]

Reparations are easy . 1) Make sure thy are not tax funded 2) Once you have your big slush fund of donations your board can pass them out however they like .

[oyarde]

I would though suggest regd. Dems who can trace that lineage be asked by ea Governor to donate 4 percent of gross pay until death

[Swordsmyth]

A state representative proposed an amendment to Ohio’s heartbeat bill that seeks an exemption for African-American women, citing historical “rape and forced birth imposed on enslaved women.”
Democratic state Rep. Janine R. Boyd (http://icm-tracking.meltwater.com/link.php?DynEngagement=true&H=btYXC68syxmDVppbhVzFoYHdeMNV9070xvOlf%2FNdDQ0wXj 6aidRhm6DYWp%2FoDrn3Q4V6LNvYYKJKBr5BtskwxYQo89pa2G ZDxDL5OdCHlxiZEUxUgqSzRtKT6yP20CWd&G=0&R=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ohiohouse.gov%2Fjanine-r-boyd&I=20190410110853.0000013d1f50%40mail6-114-ussnn1&X=MHwxMDQ2NzU4OjVjYWQwN2IzMWY0NmVkZjU2NDJiY2U0Yzs% 3D&S=z8I8b420z4b0qsSA1cYqbNMH7SK_zSizmDMnUYjXPD4) proposed the amendment to a state House committee Tuesday after the Ohio Senate passed Heartbeat Bill SB23 (https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legislation/legislation-summary?id=GA133-SB-23) banning abortions after a fetal heartbeat is detected, according to The Hill. A heartbeat usually becomes detectable between six and nine weeks in pregnancy. Many women do not know they’re pregnant at six weeks.
The bill advanced (http://www.ohiohouse.gov/committee/health) through the Ohio House committee Tuesday and will likely be signed into law by Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine if it passes the full House. The measure will not only bar women from having an abortion (https://dailycaller.com/2019/01/25/new-york-aborted-more-babies-births/) once a fetal heartbeat is detected, but will also fine physicians who violate the law up to $20,000, according to The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/438095-ohio-advances-heartbeat-abortion-bill-now-includes-20000-fine-for).
During a hearing on the bill Tuesday, Democratic state Boyd (http://icm-tracking.meltwater.com/link.php?DynEngagement=true&H=btYXC68syxmDVppbhVzFoYHdeMNV9070xvOlf%2FNdDQ0wXj 6aidRhm6DYWp%2FoDrn3Q4V6LNvYYKJKBr5BtskwxYQo89pa2G ZDxDL5OdCHlxiZEUxUgqSzRtKT6yP20CWd&G=0&R=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ohiohouse.gov%2Fjanine-r-boyd&I=20190410110853.0000013d1f50%40mail6-114-ussnn1&X=MHwxMDQ2NzU4OjVjYWQwN2IzMWY0NmVkZjU2NDJiY2U0Yzs% 3D&S=z8I8b420z4b0qsSA1cYqbNMH7SK_zSizmDMnUYjXPD4) proposed an amendment (http://www.ohiohouse.gov/committee/health) allowing the exemption of African-American women. Boyd (http://www.ohiohouse.gov/janine-r-boyd/press/dem-efforts-to-protect-ohio-women-rejected-as-nations-most-extreme-abortion-ban-set-for-house-vote) says their “history includes rape and forced birth imposed on enslaved women and black women after slavery,” according to her website.
“I consider the slave trade and how black slaves were once treated like cattle and put out to stud in order to create generations of more slaves,” she said Tuesday. “I consider the how many masters raped their slaves. I consider how many masters forced their slaves to have abortions, and I consider how many pregnant slaves self-induced abortions so that they would not contribute children they had to this slave system. … And so I ask you, with all of your values, to consider that and vote yes to this amendment.”


More at: https://truepundit.com/ohio-rep-proposes-heartbeat-bill-exemption-for-black-women-cites-slavery/

[Krugminator2]

Y

Yet, in the common law, people sue on behalf of deceased people all the time.

Not from 150 years ago they don't.

I just sent my taxes in. You know who deserves reparations? Me and everyone else who didn't consent to paying for all of the unconstitutional things government does. I didn't sign any social contract.

Here is an unpopular view that can only be said anonymously on a libertarian forum. You want to know why blacks do so terribly? They have significantly lower IQs than the average person and those low IQ people have a zillion kids out of wedlock and have low IQ kids who can't compete in society that values intelligence over physical strength. Slavery isn't the reason blacks have low incomes and low net worths. Jews came here with nothing after WWII. Jews are discriminated against. Why are they so successful? They have significantly higher IQs than the average and value family. The end.

It is funny that most people will accept that Jews are successful in large part because they are more intelligent (https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/psychology/on-the-so-called-jewish-question/) but you can't just point out the obvious about blacks without your life being ruined. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/01/science/watson-dna-genetics-race.html

[bv3]

I think that today's taxpayers should be taxed to pay me reparations for the taxes that were taken from my ancestors.

And tomorrow's taxpayers should be taxed to pay reparations to the descendants of today's taxpayers.

And so on ad infinitum.

Again, not reading. I stated quite clearly: a tax is an inappropriate way to achieve this.

[Anti Globalist]

My family is from Italy and Poland and didn't own any slaves. I ain't paying for no reparations. Neither should anybody else.

[fedupinmo]

This isn't going to make me popular here:

It is a fact that many black Americans live through an American tragedy. Just look at the statistics. Imagine growing up in an incredibly violent place, with maybe one father for every hundred. The drug war, Jim Crowe, this list goes on and on, and trust me: I'm not on some BLM shit here--its just obvious to me.

I say that asking for reparations is a legitimate grievance that can be brought against the US government--that codified chattel slavery, after all, and enforced it violently. However, and this is where we can win: that money that should've gone towards the satisfaction of this legitimate grievance was blown up overseas. Period. The money you were owed was spent blowing up weddings and fucking up American military personnel.

None of this is to say that I support a white tax for reparation, as I am vehemently against such notions for obvious reasons--ethnic guilt, blood guilt, inherited guilt I consider to be concepts less obviously toxic than chattel slavery but in the same class--since such a condition is ascribed at birth. But petitioning the government for a redress of grievance is constitutionally protected, and in this case--or so I believe--entirely appropriate. Too bad the money was blown up overseas, and shipped to other countries as aid, gay frogs, and what are the medical benefits of drinking piss etc et al. ISRAEL-BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF FUCKING AID. No, Americans need that dough--and I would say Black Americans first. They have a legitimate grievance, Israel does not. Not one more dollar for Israel until our domestic brothers and sisters are made whole. The Native's, too.

The only question: How to redress that grievance without creating another (as a white tax of ANY sort would do)?

Reparations or not, there are serious problems in our so-called black communities, and if we are going to pretend to be a nation we should probably actually address them-and not by doing anything they've already been doing which has done nothing to ameliorate the crisis, instead deepened it.

(ducks)

The problem with black communities is that we have for years subsidized the destruction of their two parent homes by giving them money they didn't themselves work for.More of the same won't help and will probably hurt, not just the black communities but society altogether.
While it is true that "Americans need that dough", the solution is to quit taking it in the first place, not start handing it out for every perceived slight claimed by any given victim class. Those who work for the "dough" should keep the dough, they traded their labor for it.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

The fact that Democratic candidates are genuflecting to a pimp like Sharpton and now openly supporting reparations is a very, very bad sign. The policy probably won't be enacted immediately, even if Dems win in 2020. Regardless, them coming out in favor of it is a disaster waiting to happen.

[timosman]

https://twitter.com/calebjhull/status/1141380400893349889

1141380400893349889

[Swordsmyth]

https://twitter.com/calebjhull/status/1141380400893349889

1141380400893349889

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP. AP37xsgzvIJTSd3icI2jFwHaF6%26pid%3DApi&f=1