Mormon church drops anti-LGBT policy from 2015

[timosman]

Mormon church drops anti-LGBT policy from 2015, saying children of same-sex couples now can be baptized
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/04/us/mormon-lgbt-policy


April 4, 2019

The Mormon church will no longer consider same-sex couples "apostates" and will allow their children to be baptized into the church without special approval from church leaders, the church said in a surprise announcement Thursday.

The announcement was made by Dallin Oaks, a member of the church's First Presidency, at a conference in Salt Lake City.
"Previously, our Handbook characterized same-gender marriage by a member as apostasy," the church said in a statement. "While we still consider such a marriage to be a serious transgression, it will not be treated as apostasy for purposes of Church discipline. Instead, the immoral conduct in heterosexual or homosexual relationships will be treated in the same way."
The church, officially known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, said it wants "to reduce the hate and contention so common today."
The former policy, announced in 2015, had angered liberal and LGBT Mormons, and some 1,500 left the church in protest, according to one activist.
The church said that its doctrines on marriage and salvation, of which marriage is an integral part, will not change. LGBT Mormons are expected to be chaste, according to church teachings. But, by no longer considering same-sex marriages "apostasy," the church has essentially lifted the threat of excommunication for gay couples, church experts said.
LGBT parents can request that their children be blessed by a member of the church's priesthood and, when the child turns 8, the church "will contact them and propose that the child be baptized," the church said in its statement. Still, the child's parents must give permission for the baptism and understand that the baptized child will be taught the faith and expected to follow its teachings, the church said.
"These policy changes come after an extended period of counseling with our brethren in the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and after fervent, united prayer to understand the will of the Lord on these matters."
Since taking office last year, President Russell Nelson has frequently changed church policies, sometimes relying on revelations he says were dictated by God. In contrast with church presidents of the recent past, Nelson speaks of his revelations openly and often, a phenomenon CNN explored in an article last month.
Thursday's announcement raises new questions about the revelations, since Nelson had also presented the now-defunct LGBT policy as a matter of God's will as divined by the church's previous president, Thomas Monson.
The church said it will not comment further on the new policy.

[Swordsmyth]

:facepalming::facepalming::facepalming::facepalmin g::facepalming::facepalming::facepalming::facepalm ing::facepalming::facepalming::facepalming::facepa lming::facepalming::facepalming::facepalming::face palming::facepalming::facepalming::facepalming::fa cepalming::facepalming::facepalming::facepalming:: facepalming::facepalming:

[dannno]

Thursday's announcement raises new questions about the revelations, since Nelson had also presented the now-defunct LGBT policy as a matter of God's will as divined by the church's previous president, Thomas Monson.

My grandma was his Sunday school teacher.

[RonZeplin]

Bishop Mitt has long been on the cutting edge of this.

https://www.glaad.org/sites/default/files/styles/750px/public/glaadromneyboyscouts.jpg?itok=cA0F7Xvp

Tip of the spear, Mittens

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

waiting to see a polygamist family with a guy who has 5 wives and 2 husbands

[donnay]

These are not my words, these are God's WORDS:

Leviticus 18:22 KJV

“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

No apologies or concessions needed.

[Stratovarious]

Church follows the PC Money, same as the Catholic Church.

[donnay]

Church follows the PC Money, same as the Catholic Church.

Funny your should mention that, the President of the LDS met with the Pope just recently.

Hmm, working on that One World Religion?

[Stratovarious]

Funny your should mention that, the President of the LDS met with the Pope just recently.

Hmm, working on that One World Religion?
Ha ha, probably....lol

[Ender]

This policy is about helping the children in LGBT families- the first policy was so that children from gay families would not be subjected to & hurt by Mormon doctrines against LGBT and would need to be an adult before baptism. That has now changed, so that children from such families can be baptized if they desire- which I think is better for the kids.

And yes, the church leaders have met with the Pope- and muslim leaders, and Trump and etc. etc, etc. The main purpose is to be aware of others & what is going on in the world.

Mormons are among the most giving people on the earth & are usually the real 1st responders in disasters.

And NO, I'm not Mormon- some of my family is & I respect what they continually do for others.

AND this should be in the Religion forum.

[PierzStyx]

Thursday's announcement raises new questions about the revelations, since Nelson had also presented the now-defunct LGBT policy as a matter of God's will as divined by the church's previous president, Thomas Monson.

Not if you understand how revelation works. Indeed this presents very little change. Instead of facing church discipline for apostasy people engaging in homosexual activity will face church discipline for Law of Chastity violations. The only real change is that their children can be baptized before becoming legal adults.

[donnay]

This policy is about helping the children in LGBT families- the first policy was so that children from gay families would not be subjected to & hurt by Mormon doctrines against LGBT and would need to be an adult before baptism. That has now changed, so that children from such families can be baptized if they desire- which I think is better for the kids.

And yes, the church leaders have met with the Pope- and muslim leaders, and Trump and etc. etc, etc. The main purpose is to be aware of others & what is going on in the world.

Mormons are among the most giving people on the earth & are usually the real 1st responders in disasters.

And NO, I'm not Mormon- some of my family is & I respect what they continually do for others.

AND this should be in the Religion forum.

The LDS just built a Temple in Rome, miles away from the Vatican. Just saying.

I don't think they will build any Temples in Muslim countries, since they kill homosexuals.

[PierzStyx]

Church follows the PC Money, same as the Catholic Church.

Funny. Wasn't aware teaching people homosexual activity was wrong and that you could be disciplined, even excommunicated, for it was "P.C."

[PierzStyx]

The LDS just built a Temple in Rome, miles away from the Vatican. Just saying.

I don't think they will build any Temples in Muslim countries, since they kill homosexuals.

Temples are built base don the amount of Latter-day Saints in a given area. Considering there aren't very many in Middle Eastern choices there naturally wouldn't be many LDS temples. That said, the church was just recently given formal legal recognition in Kuwait. https://www.lds.org/church/news/kuwait-officially-recognizes-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints?lang=eng

[Stratovarious]

Funny. Wasn't aware teaching people homosexual activity was wrong and that you could be disciplined, even excommunicated, for it was "P.C."


Wrong ?

[spudea]

These are not my words, these are God's WORDS:

Leviticus 18:22 KJV

“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

No apologies or concessions needed.

The same is said about Divorce. What's your point? You also think children of divorced parents should be denied a baptism?

[donnay]

The same is said about Divorce. What's your point? You also think children of divorced parents should be denied a baptism?

God is a divorcee. So I am not sure who told you divorce is an abomination but that is not written in God's WORD.

ETA:

Besides did the one malefactor next to Jesus get baptized before he died?

[spudea]

Delete

[pcosmar]

I find this to be unsurprising,, and presents possibilities.

[PierzStyx]

Wrong ?

Yes. The teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is that while sexual attraction is not a sin necessarily, acting on homosexual sexual impulses -i.e. engaging in homosexual romantic and sexual activity- is a sin. As a violation of the Law of Chastity it is considered a very severe sin, one which can result in multiple levels of formal discipline up to and including excommunication if the offender is unrepentant. In terms of this policy the only real change is that the children of homosexual couples can be baptized more easily.

This is not a "p.c." stance.

[Stratovarious]

Yes. The teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is that while sexual attraction is not a sin necessarily, acting on homosexual sexual impulses -i.e. engaging in homosexual romantic and sexual activity- is a sin. As a violation of the Law of Chastity it is considered a very severe sin, one which can result in multiple levels of formal discipline up to and including excommunication if the offender is unrepentant. In terms of this policy the only real change is that the children of homosexual couples can be baptized more easily.

This is not a "p.c." stance.

Than its not an 'abomination' ?

[Swordsmyth]

Funny your should mention that, the President of the LDS met with the Pope just recently.

Hmm, working on that One World Religion?
The corruption is in all churches, GOD is going to have to cleanse the world in order to change it.

[Swordsmyth]

Not if you understand how revelation works. Indeed this presents very little change. Instead of facing church discipline for apostasy people engaging in homosexual activity will face church discipline for Law of Chastity violations. The only real change is that their children can be baptized before becoming legal adults.
This is NOT how revelation works, this is corruption and worldly influence, any qweers that enter into a qweer "marriage" are apostate.

[donnay]

The corruption is in all churches, GOD is going to have to cleanse the world in order to change it.

The Four Hidden Dynasties (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMu1yDRqiuQ) that will take us to the One World Government:

Political
Economic
Education
Religion

[Ender]

This is NOT how revelation works, this is corruption and worldly influence, any qweers that enter into a qweer "marriage" are apostate.

Bullshit.

The policy has nothing to do with "qweer" marriage- it's about helping kids who are in a "qweer" family.

[specsaregood]

These are not my words, these are God's WORDS:
Leviticus 18:22 KJV
“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”
No apologies or concessions needed.

There is a lot crazy stuff in the old testament. Are we supposed to follow it all? Or just pick and choose? Asking seriously.

[Stratovarious]

''will allow their children to be baptized''

There's some top drawer comedy right there folks;
'their children' as if they procreated , the children a 'registered to them' like a cat or a dog.

Registered Children, not 'theirs' in any kind of historical sense. Certainly not in the eyes of God.

[Swordsmyth]

Bull$#@!.

The policy has nothing to do with "qweer" marriage- it's about helping kids who are in a "qweer" family.
It has everything to do with it, it allows qweers in a qweer marriage to be considered not apostate.

[Swordsmyth]

There is a lot crazy stuff in the old testament. Are we supposed to follow it all? Or just pick and choose? Asking seriously.
The New Testament also condemns qweers.

[Swordsmyth]

There is a lot crazy stuff in the old testament. Are we supposed to follow it all? Or just pick and choose? Asking seriously.
I'm not aware of any abominations that were authorized in the New Testament, Moses put many of his own laws in among GOD's laws and Christ specifically pointed that out about divorce but abominations are a different matter.

[specsaregood]

The New Testament also condemns qweers.

I was just wondering since Donnay used a line from the old Testament to make her point.

[Grandmastersexsay]

Yet, they are still against polygamy, a far more historically common practice.

[donnay]

There is a lot crazy stuff in the old testament. Are we supposed to follow it all? Or just pick and choose? Asking seriously.

As a person who studies the Bible there is more information about the end of days in the Book of Ezekiel than there is in the New Testament.

The Ten commandments are in the Book of Exodus. The health laws in Leviticus are there as a guideline too. The statutes and ordinances were nailed to the cross with Jesus, but the law still applies today. So eating pork, for instance, it is not a sin against your soul, it is a bad for your health, and that is why God warned us about it--after all he made us, He knew what was good or bad for our health.

Jesus told his disciples:

Matthew 5:17 (KJV)
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Matthew 5:18 (KJV)
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

[pcosmar]

The corruption is in all churches, GOD is going to have to cleanse the world in order to change it.

Looking forward to it.

[Ender]

It has everything to do with it, it allows qweers in a qweer marriage to be considered not apostate.

Again- more bull shit.

The policy allows children with parents that are LGBT, to be baptized. The children are NOT LGBT.

[Dr.3D]

The corruption is in all churches, GOD is going to have to cleanse the world in order to change it.

Brings this to mind....


1 Peter 4:17-18 For the time has come for judgment to begin with the household of God; if it begins with us, what will be the end for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 And "If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinners?" [NRS]

[Ender]

Yet, they are still against polygamy, a far more historically common practice.

If you're talking about Mormons, it is because they are a captured people like the Indians- the big difference is that Indians know it & most Mormons don't. Mormons left the US because of the dangers and pioneered west. You could legally kill a Mormon in Missouri until 1976. Gov then took their land from them & they were imprisoned if they continued polygamy. They were forced into gov schools to make them compliant factory workers.

So much for freedom of religion, eh?

[Swordsmyth]

Again- more bull $#@!.

The policy allows children with parents that are LGBT, to be baptized. The children are NOT LGBT.
They could have done that without saying that the "parents" in the qweer marriage are not apostate, learn to read.

[Swordsmyth]

Brings this to mind....
Yup

[Wooden Indian]

Fun fact, Joseph Smith had more in common with Muhammad than Christ.

How many Christians are shocked that a cult sect built upon the lies of a perverted false prophet... meh, never mind. Carry on.

[dannno]

This is NOT how revelation works, this is corruption and worldly influence, any qweers that enter into a qweer "marriage" are apostate.


Bullshit.

The policy has nothing to do with "qweer" marriage- it's about helping kids who are in a "qweer" family.

It's kinda both.

They were stuck in a bind. Same sex parents were and should be apostate according to doctrine, but as it is becoming more commonplace they felt it was unfair not to be able to baptize their kids.

I kind of agree with ss, I don't think they should have backed down. But I'm not the one receiving revelation, I'm just being an divine inspiration armchair quarterback.

You can only get baptized once. After that, the rap sheet doesn't get erased. Do you think it is fair for those kids to grow up in that environment while they have a rap sheet going? Or would it be better to wait until they are out of the house and can come to terms with everything and then wash away their sins?

[dannno]

I've heard that the LDS community has been told to prepare for a time in the not so distant future when church functions will primarily be held in a household, domestic environment. The assumption was that they would not be allowed to practice their faith due to legal restrictions, but I wonder if it won't happen due to a corrupted leadership?

[Swordsmyth]

I've heard that the LDS community has been told to prepare for a time in the not so distant future when church functions will primarily be held in a household, domestic environment. The assumption was that they would not be allowed to practice their faith due to legal restrictions, but I wonder if it won't happen due to a corrupted leadership?
You must spread some reputation around............................................ .........



D&C

Section 64

38 For it shall come to pass that the inhabitants of Zion shall judge all things pertaining to Zion.
39 And liars and hypocrites shall be proved by them, and they who are not apostles and prophets shall be known.

[Grandmastersexsay]

If you're talking about Mormons, it is because they are a captured people like the Indians- the big difference is that Indians know it & most Mormons don't. Mormons left the US because of the dangers and pioneered west. You could legally kill a Mormon in Missouri until 1976. Gov then took their land from them & they were imprisoned if they continued polygamy. They were forced into gov schools to make them compliant factory workers.

So much for freedom of religion, eh?

Crazy. I never knew that. Still LDS should come out in support of polygamy before the children of same sex couples.

[Ender]

Crazy. I never knew that. Still LDS should come out in support of polygamy before the children of same sex couples.

No way to make that happen unless polygamy is legal.

[Grandmastersexsay]

No way to make that happen unless polygamy is legal.

They can support something without committing a crime. LDS can't be prosecuted for allowing people who break the law to join their congregation.

Better yet, they could take the issue before the supreme court. They have the funding, and there are many reasons such laws could be found unconstitutional. Freedom of religion, freedom of association, and freedom of speech just to name a few.

[Swordsmyth]

They can support something without committing a crime. LDS can't be prosecuted for allowing people who break the law to join their congregation.

Better yet, they could take the issue before the supreme court. They have the funding, and there are many reasons such laws could be found unconstitutional. Freedom of religion, freedom of association, and freedom of speech just to name a few.
He means that most Mormons are raised to be submissive to government in excess of what is appropriate, he is saying that is a result of psychological trauma during the early history of the church that has been passed down as part of Mormon culture.

He may be right, they are like the elephant that was tied to a tree as a baby that doesn't even try to break its rope or uproot the tree when it is grown.

[Ender]

He means that most Mormons are raised to be submissive to government in excess of what is appropriate, he is saying that is a result of psychological trauma during the early history of the church that has been passed down as part of Mormon culture.

He may be right, they are like the elephant that was tied to a tree as a baby that doesn't even try to break its rope or uproot the tree when it is grown.

I agree- don't faint. :speaknoevil:

Things are changing though and people are waking up. I believe the LDS leaders have spent the last 100+ years keeping the members safe & alive- & now it's time to come out of The Matrix.

Interesting times.