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Anti Federalist
03-30-2019, 04:50 PM
'We’ve never seen anything like this': As Trump threatens to close border, migrants overwhelm Texas cities

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/03/30/migrants-overflow-border-federal-facilities-local-strain-wall-trump/3309462002/

Aaron Montes and Rick Jervis, USA TODAY Published 11:10 a.m. ET March 30, 2019 | Updated 11:50 a.m. ET March 30, 2019

His appearance in El Paso on Wednesday, March 27, 2019, came as a temporary satellite processing center was set up under the Paso Del Norte International Bridge. Mark R Lambie and Aaron Martinez and Samuel Gaytan, Wochit

Border Patrol agents expect to see more than 100,000 apprehensions and encounters with migrants in March, the highest monthly total in over a decade.

Vast majority of those crossing between ports of entry turn themselves into Border Patrol agents, seeking asylum.

On Friday, Trump threatened to close the U.S.-Mexico border if Mexico didn't stop undocumented migrants from coming.

EL PASO – Under a bridge connecting the U.S. with Mexico, dozens of migrant families cram into a makeshift camp set up by U.S. Customs and Border Protection. The families are there because permanent processing facilities have run out of room.

Seven hundred miles east, busload after busload of weary, bedraggled migrants crowd into the Catholic Charities Humanitarian Respite Center in McAllen, Texas. Organizers there are used to handling 200 to 300 migrants a day. Lately, the migrants have been arriving at a clip of around 800 a day, overflowing the respite center and straining city resources.

“It’s staggering,” McAllen City Manager Roy Rodriguez said. “Really, we’ve never seen anything like this before.”

Along the Texas border with Mexico – from El Paso to Eagle Pass to the Rio Grande Valley – masses of migrants have been crossing the border in unprecedented numbers, overwhelming federal holding facilities and sending local leaders and volunteers scrambling to deal with the relentless waves of people.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Kevin McAleenan said Wednesday during a visit to El Paso that the border had hit its "breaking point" and urged Congress to come up with legislative solutions to the problem.

Border Patrol officials were on pace in March for more than 100,000 apprehensions and encounters with migrants – the highest monthly tally in over a decade, he said. Around 90 percent of those – or 90,000 – crossed the border between legal ports of entry.

The vast majority of those crossing between ports of entry turn themselves into Border Patrol agents, seeking asylum.

“The surge numbers are just overwhelming the entire system," McAleenan said.

President Donald Trump recently declared a national emergency at the border to secure funding for a proposed wall, despite Congressional opposition. On Friday, the president in a tweet threatened to close the U.S.-Mexico border if Mexico didn't stop undocumented migrants from coming.

But not even Trump's proposed wall could stop the wave of migrants overflowing shelters in the Rio Grande Valley, where the vast majority are turning themselves in to apply for asylum, McAllen Mayor Jim Darling said.

A wall would go up on levees about a mile from the winding Rio Grande, which is the U.S.-Mexico border. Migrants will just have to cross the river to be in U.S. territory and seek asylum, he said.

"That's not a solution for asylum-seekers," Darling said.

Once in the U.S., the migrants – mostly families from Central America – are crowding into facilities designed to hold single adult men, said Theresa Brown, director of immigration and cross-border policy at the Washington-based Bipartisan Policy Center and a former CBP policy adviser for Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama.


CBP Commissioner Kevin McAleenan says border region is at "breaking point" because of influx of migrants from Central America. Mark R Lambie, El Paso Times

Increasingly, smugglers are bringing larger numbers of families together and delivering them across the Rio Grande, knowing they’ll overrun facilities and be released until their immigration court date, she said. Under U.S. law, Border Patrol is not supposed to hold any migrant for longer than 72 hours.

Usually, Border Patrol hands them over to Immigration and Customs Enforcement, which can detain families for up to 20 days. But all of those facilities are overcrowded, Brown said, leading Border Patrol to skip the transfer to ICE and release migrants to shelters en masse.

“This is a system-wide collapse,” she said.

In El Paso, migrant families pressed their faces against the chain-link fencing at the makeshift outdoor shelter under the Paso Del Norte International Bridge as they awaited their turn to seek asylum. Children covered their mouths with swaths of Mylar blankets and peeked through the fencing at passing Border Patrol guards.

On Wednesday, more than 850 migrants were released to local shelters, marking a new high for El Paso. The numbers are expected to keep rising, according to Ruben Garcia, executive director of Annunciation House, a nonprofit that provides services to migrants released by federal authorities.

"It’s going to be very, very challenging,” he said.

Garcia and other shelter organizers have relied on a growing number of volunteers to help with the increased migrants. Ande McArthy, a retired nurse, and her husband, Michael, a retired physician assistant, traveled from Lake Huron, Michigan, to El Paso last week after their church put out a call to help for the Annunciation House.

The McArthys are among 12 full-time volunteers who help to sort clothes, handle day-to-day donations and tend to the needs of hundreds of migrants arriving at the shelters each day.

“We’re here trying to show that [migrants] are fleeing conflict,” McArthy said.

The El Paso City Council and County Commissioners voted recently to fund a position that would help coordinate volunteers. Mayor Dee Margo said the city will seek reimbursement from the federal government.

“It allows us to frankly take more action than we’ve been able to do in the past and justify that for a humanitarian need — an emergency need,” Margo said. “If we are required to spend some funds, we will.”

In McAllen, migrants deemed to have credible asylum cases are released to the Catholic Charities respite center, where they’re allowed to shower, given medical attention and helped with getting a bus or airplane ticket to their final U.S. destination.

Sister Norma Pimentel, who oversees the shelter, said she received a phone call two weekends ago from a Border Patrol official warning that the numbers were about to skyrocket. The next day, around 800 migrants showed up to the shelter, she said.

On Wednesday, clusters of migrants crowded the halls of the center. Lines stretched down long halls, as migrants waited to use the shower or pick up diapers. Teams of volunteers called migrants' relatives to get bus tickets. Every 20 minutes or so, a new tour bus would drive up and deliver another 50 migrants into the shelter.

Among the throngs were Fredy Escobar, 27, and his wife, Katherine Lopez, 23, and three-year-old daughter, Ayleen Escobar. The family fled Guatemala earlier this year when corrupt police officers threatened to take over his car wash business in Guatemala City and tried to kidnap him, Fredy Escobar said.

They crossed into the U.S. from nearby Nuevo Progreso, Mexico, waiting 10 days at the international bridge and sleeping in a nearby church, until they were allowed to cross and seek asylum. He said he was surprised by the throngs of other migrants joining him in U.S. processing centers but was excited to get to Houston to start a new life.

"It won’t be easy. We're starting over," he said, "but we pray everything will turn out OK."

The DEMOCRATS have given us the weakest immigration laws anywhere in the World. Mexico has the strongest, & they make more than $100 Billion a year on the U.S. Therefore, CONGRESS MUST CHANGE OUR WEAK IMMIGRATION LAWS NOW, & Mexico must stop illegals from entering the U.S....

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 29, 2019
Despite the crush, Pimentel said she will continue taking in the migrants. “If you drop them off on the street, they’re not going to know what to do,” she said. “We’re going to have chaos. We’re going to have a terrible problem.”

As the respite center started to overflow last week, city officials got involved, opening new shelters and contracting buses to take the migrants directly to shelters rather than have them cluster around the bus station downtown.

Rodriguez, the city manager, said he’s dedicated several city officials to spearhead the problem and the city’s spending thousands of taxpayer dollars a day on the buses and other services.

He’s lobbied the federal government for reimbursement, but he’s not overly hopeful. In 2014, when a similar crush of Central American migrants strained city resources, local officials applied for $600,000 in federal disaster funds. After years of wrangling, they got just $140,000, he said.

“This is very similar to what we saw then,” Rodriguez said. “It’s real people and real time and real money.”

Anti Federalist
03-30-2019, 04:53 PM
Deploy Marines and Army troops along every mile.

Shoot those crossing the line in the face.

Arrest the directors of Catholic Charities for sedition and treason.

Or not, and become an annex of Central America, with all that entails.

Your choice AmeriKa...

Swordsmyth
03-30-2019, 04:56 PM
Is it an invasion yet?:sarcasm:

TheTexan
03-30-2019, 05:15 PM
Deploy Marines and Army troops along every mile.

Shoot those crossing the line in the face.

Arrest the directors of Catholic Charities for sedition and treason.

Or not, and become an annex of Central America, with all that entails.

Your choice AmeriKa...

The US/Mexico border is quite large however. If we annex the northern half of Mexico, that border would be only half as long.

TheTexan
03-30-2019, 05:17 PM
Israel annexes other countries all the time. I don't see why we can't do it.

Anti Federalist
03-30-2019, 05:18 PM
The US/Mexico border is quite large however. If we annex the northern half of Mexico, that border would be only half as long.

I like your thinking.

jkr
03-30-2019, 06:32 PM
The US/Mexico border is quite large however. If we annex the northern half of Mexico, that border would be only half as long.

NOW YER THINKING BIG!

the conquest oc mex e co shall commence$

Zippyjuan
03-30-2019, 06:35 PM
NOW YER THINKING BIG!

the conquest oc mex e co shall commence$

So you DO want to welcome them to the United States of America! Should we tear down the wall?

Swordsmyth
03-30-2019, 06:38 PM
So you DO want to welcome them to the United States of America! Should we tear down the wall?

Did he say they would be allowed to remain in the annexed territory?

Zippyjuan
03-30-2019, 06:40 PM
Did he say they would be allowed to remain in the annexed territory?

So you favor government stealing property from people who own it? Take their property and livelyhoods and they will go to America looking for new jobs. New and much larger immigration problem.

Swordsmyth
03-30-2019, 06:49 PM
So you favor government stealing property from people who own it? Take their property and livelyhoods and they will go to America looking for new jobs. New and much larger immigration problem.
The posters discussing the suggested action were joking, if you couldn't tell.

jkr
03-30-2019, 06:52 PM
So you favor government stealing property from people who own it? Take their property and livelyhoods and they will go to America looking for new jobs. New and much larger immigration problem.

Conquest isn't theft its Conquest .

let the North American Union begin( finally ) let's get this s*** over with...

jkr
03-30-2019, 06:56 PM
I'm not joking at all.
better weather , longer growing seasons, t n a...all stuff I like

a place to go to start over again....VIVA JOHN GAULT...wait

Zippyjuan
03-30-2019, 06:59 PM
Conquest isn't theft its Conquest .

let the North American Union begin( finally ) let's get this s*** over with...

Stealing at the point of a gun then. More foreign wars!

Origanalist
03-30-2019, 07:15 PM
Trump made immigration the main point of his campaign, he's made a bunch of noise about it since becoming president yet the problem is much worse. What conclusion am I supposed to come to about that? He hasn't made it better, he's made it worse.

Dr.3D
03-30-2019, 07:17 PM
Israel annexes other countries all the time. I don't see why we can't do it.
And the beauty of this plan would be that once annexed, there would be no foreign war as it would already belong to the United States.

spudea
03-30-2019, 07:19 PM
Trump made immigration the main point of his campaign, he's made a bunch of noise about it since becoming president yet the problem is much worse. What conclusion am I supposed to come to about that? He hasn't made it better, he's made it worse.

Practically everything he's done has been handicapped by courts and congress, and his enemies have dramatically increased the human trafficking funding.

Dr.3D
03-30-2019, 07:22 PM
Practically everything he's done has been handicapped by courts and congress, and his enemies have dramatically increased the human trafficking funding.

The government should go after the folks who are funding this stuff.

Zippyjuan
03-30-2019, 07:40 PM
The biggest problem is the limited immigration court system- not a wall. Even before Trump took office they had a huge backlog of cases. People subject to possible deportation or requesting asylum are legally entitled to a hearing. Trump pushed for more deportations which added to the backlog and the government shutdown over a couple $billion for his wall meant courts were not in session and the backlog grew. People crossing are seeking out the border patrol rather than trying to evade them and are requesting asylum. More hearings. Billions on more wall won't help any of that. If the same money were put into the court system instead of fighting over the questionable gains of more wall would do far more to ease the situation.

Origanalist
03-30-2019, 07:43 PM
The government should go after the folks who are funding this stuff.

Be careful what you ask for, there might be a couple surprises there.

jkr
03-30-2019, 07:53 PM
Stealing at the point of a gun then. More foreign wars!

Just one more lil war? No one will ever know!

jkr
03-30-2019, 07:56 PM
Seriously
Why cant we just ooze down there like they oozed up here?
Can't millions of americans move to Mexico and start again


I know it didn't work in New Hampshire, that's because of the snow

Zippyjuan
03-30-2019, 08:03 PM
Seriously
Why cant we just ooze down there like they oozed up here?
Can't millions of americans move to Mexico and start again


I know it didn't work in New Hampshire, that's because of the snow

You are free to go to Mexico if you choose. Things are a lot cheaper there.

Dr.3D
03-30-2019, 08:06 PM
Seriously
Why cant we just ooze down there like they oozed up here?
Can't millions of americans move to Mexico and start again


I know it didn't work in New Hampshire, that's because of the snow
Well, you need to have a sticker on your car that says, "Turista" on it.

If you enter without permission, you would probably spend some time in one of those wonderful Mexican prisons.

Dr.3D
03-30-2019, 08:21 PM
Be careful what you ask for, there might be a couple surprises there.
Humm...

I'm not funding those caravans.

Origanalist
03-30-2019, 08:22 PM
Humm...

I'm not funding those caravans.

Ok, I kinda figured that.

Origanalist
03-30-2019, 08:26 PM
Humm...

I'm not funding those caravans.

"you must spread some rep" and I'll answer you elsewhere.

DamianTV
03-30-2019, 08:29 PM
Dominoes.

Collapse one country, cause everyone to evacuate that country, and the country they all flee too also collapses, which causes even more people to collapse the next domino country.

Origanalist
03-30-2019, 08:32 PM
Dominoes.

Collapse one country, cause everyone to evacuate that country, and the country they all flee too also collapses, which causes even more people to collapse the next domino country.

So you're saying Putin is saving us from ourselves?

Danke
03-30-2019, 08:41 PM
Stealing at the point of a gun then. More foreign wars!

Modern Mexicans are too lazy to put up much of a fight. It would be a Turkey shoot at best.

AngryCanadian
03-30-2019, 08:47 PM
Is it an invasion yet?:sarcasm:

Are Leftist actors and liberal polticans willing to open their homes to migrants? :eyes:

TheTexan
03-30-2019, 09:05 PM
So you favor government stealing property from people who own it? Take their property and livelyhoods and they will go to America looking for new jobs. New and much larger immigration problem.

It's not stealing if we're forced to take the land for national security reasons because Mexico refuses to secure their borders.

Trump did say that Mexico would pay for the wall. This could be how.

Brian4Liberty
03-30-2019, 09:33 PM
Isn’t Trump’s emergency order still in effect? And if Border Patrol is being overwhelmed, is that not justification to increase resources?

Anti Federalist
03-30-2019, 09:39 PM
Trump made immigration the main point of his campaign, he's made a bunch of noise about it since becoming president yet the problem is much worse. What conclusion am I supposed to come to about that? He hasn't made it better, he's made it worse.

The generals running this Fifth Gen warfare operation know exactly what they are doing.

They know Trump is an impotent blowhard and unlikely to do anything of any real consequence.

But they know his rhetoric could, very unlikely, but could, awaken a real resistance to their invasion.

So they are throwing everything they possibly can into the gap, into the weak point in the lines, just like Hitler did in the Ardennes, like Chamberlain at Little Round Top, like the Allies at The Battle of Monte Cassino, so that we are made to fully understand:

"There is no resisting. You will be displaced. Die off quietly while you have chance."

Brian4Liberty
03-30-2019, 09:41 PM
...Catholic Charities...

Always relevant...agendas, objectives, strategies and tactics. What is in play?


Not only that, there is always an agenda, often hidden. Everyone has a vested interest in their position. They believe it will benefit them in some way. Even those who want a moratorium on immigration want that because they believe it is in their best interest, although they tend to be the most open and honest about their agenda.

Businesses (and GOP) want cheap and pliable labor. Democrats want voters and new people who will depend upon them and government for support. Many people want to bring over more of their family or what they think of as “their people”. Others with vested interests consider themselves global in nature. Religious and political groups are the biggest in that category. Religions don’t want borders that will hinder the expansion of their religion. They believe that new immigrants are ripe for conversion, especially if they are aided in their immigration. Political ideologies, like religious ones, also want to convert, and being global in nature, they often want to convert foreign lands to their ideology, often by force.

Look to the hidden agenda...

euphemia
03-30-2019, 10:12 PM
Brian, you do know that there are thriving churches in Latin America, right? Nobody is sent here to be converted. The gospel can be freely taught there.

Swordsmyth
03-30-2019, 10:48 PM
Trump made immigration the main point of his campaign, he's made a bunch of noise about it since becoming president yet the problem is much worse. What conclusion am I supposed to come to about that? He hasn't made it better, he's made it worse.
He hasn't made it worse, our enemies have made it worse.
It would be even worse yet without him.

pcosmar
03-30-2019, 10:51 PM
Always relevant...agendas, objectives, strategies and tactics. What is in play?

History of US Government involvement (intervention) in South America..

Genesis of the term "Banana Republic".

School of the Americas Graduates.

Swordsmyth
03-30-2019, 10:51 PM
The biggest problem is the limited immigration court system- not a wall. Even before Trump took office they had a huge backlog of cases. People subject to possible deportation or requesting asylum are legally entitled to a hearing. Trump pushed for more deportations which added to the backlog and the government shutdown over a couple $billion for his wall meant courts were not in session and the backlog grew. People crossing are seeking out the border patrol rather than trying to evade them and are requesting asylum. More hearings. Billions on more wall won't help any of that. If the same money were put into the court system instead of fighting over the questionable gains of more wall would do far more to ease the situation.
The biggest problem is the laws that allow them to tie up our immigration system instead of us just throwing them back across the border.

Brian4Liberty
03-30-2019, 11:26 PM
Brian, you do know that there are thriving churches in Latin America, right? Nobody is sent here to be converted. The gospel can be freely taught there.

Certainly. And a border between churches is just a terrible inconvenience. It goes both ways. Send missionaries to foriegn lands, or import refugees that you can convert. Borders and nations get in the way.

Pauls' Revere
03-30-2019, 11:34 PM
Well, you need to have a sticker on your car that says, "Turista" on it.

If you enter without permission, you would probably spend some time in one of those wonderful Mexican prisons.

Mexico is unwelcoming to immigration from the North but allows immigration from the South?

Swordsmyth
03-30-2019, 11:37 PM
Mexico is unwelcoming to immigration from the North but allows immigration from the South?
They aren't welcoming to anyone who intends to stay, they are hyper racist, but they are quite welcoming to those who are passing through to invade the US.

DamianTV
03-31-2019, 02:16 AM
Mexico is unwelcoming to immigration from the North but allows immigration from the South?

Well of course. They know damn good and well our cultures are not compatible. Their goal: "Make America Mexico Again".

A Son of Liberty
03-31-2019, 02:48 AM
Well this thread has been a delight! Here we have - at RonPaulForums.com, of all places - a kidding-not-really-kidding advocacy of the US government invading a neighboring country, among other pleasantries.

https://media.giphy.com/media/z9AUvhAEiXOqA/giphy.gif

Hey CCTelelander, tell me again I'm being too cynical! ;)

Warrior_of_Freedom
03-31-2019, 03:00 AM
Now I know why we never invaded mexico, 'cause every mexican would become an american citizen

Origanalist
03-31-2019, 06:12 AM
He hasn't made it worse, our enemies have made it worse.
It would be even worse yet without him.

Why didn't they make it worse when Obama was president then if it would have been worse yet without him? The logic doesn't add up.

PursuePeace
03-31-2019, 11:02 AM
THERE IS NO $#@!ING INVASION.



What is your stance on illegal immigration?
Just curious.

Zippyjuan
03-31-2019, 11:20 AM
What is your stance on illegal immigration?
Just curious.

(noting that asylum seekers are behaving legally- not illegally)

Dr.3D
03-31-2019, 11:30 AM
Ever deal with Mexican cops?
.
I've found the best way to deal with them is to only speak English.

Once they know you are a gringo and don't speak Spanish, they usually let you go.

Tourism is big business and they don't like souring people from visiting their country.

Pauls' Revere
03-31-2019, 01:55 PM
It's not stealing if we're forced to take the land for national security reasons because Mexico refuses to secure their borders.

Trump did say that Mexico would pay for the wall. This could be how.

Right, he never said how they would pay.

A Son of Liberty
03-31-2019, 01:57 PM
Just because somebody has a difference of opinion, does not make them an "infiltrator".

The very definition of "infiltrators" are the millions of people pouring into the country.

Bullshit.

Opinions are great. Everyone has them.

Here, we have principles. Or at least we used to.

Warrior_of_Freedom
03-31-2019, 02:07 PM
If people wanna come to this country, they're on their own. It's bullshit we're forced through taxation not only to pay for their living expenses, but also to help pay for the college education of their kids so they can take the good jobs, too.

A Son of Liberty
03-31-2019, 02:09 PM
If people wanna come to this country, they're on their own. It's bull$#@! we're forced through taxation not only to pay for their living expenses, but also to help pay for the college education of their kids so they can take the good jobs, too.

100% agreed.

Warrior_of_Freedom
03-31-2019, 02:10 PM
100% agreed.

That also is what separates the immigrants from the past from the immigrants of today. The immigrants of the past came here to work for a better life. The immigrants today come here to get a life for free.

Anti Federalist
03-31-2019, 02:18 PM
Let me ask you something - how can you say you believe in something by standing for the exact opposite?

OK, fair enough...what...exactly...be specific.

A Son of Liberty
03-31-2019, 02:18 PM
dupe

Anti Federalist
03-31-2019, 02:26 PM
Is a reasonably intelligent person allowed to re-examine a situation and make changes in their outlook based on current realities?

I got into trouble with Libertarians because I said there may well be a time when immigration is like an invasion and we have to treat it differently. - Ron Paul on "Meet the Press" 23 Dec 2007

Anti Federalist
03-31-2019, 02:32 PM
You piqued my ire today with that fucking garbage you posted about standing the army and marines at the border and shooting anyone who attempts to cross it.

And you do understand that is precisely why I was so provocative and over the top when I wrote that.

To rattle some cages and upset some thinking and change some points of view, because I view this issue, and others related to it, very seriously.

More so than I have in the past, based on a number of reasons, all of which I feel to be legitimate.

Pauls' Revere
03-31-2019, 02:32 PM
If people wanna come to this country, they're on their own. It's bull$#@! we're forced through taxation not only to pay for their living expenses, but also to help pay for the college education of their kids so they can take the good jobs, too.

and that sir, is a huge reason why this issue breeds resentment. Why should the state force taxation for me,you,us, to pay for someone Else's lifestyle choices. And this "payment" doesn't always come in the form of taxes, it can come in the form of opportunity cost or lost opportunities.

A Son of Liberty
03-31-2019, 02:34 PM
And you do understand that is precisely why I was so provocative and over the top when I wrote that.

To rattle some cages and upset some thinking and change some points of view, because I view this issue, and others related to it, very seriously.

More so than I have in the past, based on a number of reasons, all of which I feel to be legitimate.

You're barking up the wrong tree. But I'm not the one who's going to show you that.


You've broken my heart, RPF. My hope is gone.

Ender
03-31-2019, 02:39 PM
Do you have a lot of illegal immigration where you live?
I do. And I've sat in courtrooms where all of the illegals were set free/no fines, and the actual citizens of the country had to pay fines.

Do not think for one minute that this sort of thing is NOT on purpose. It certainly sows dischord between people, wouldn't you think?

They WANT to keep people divided and fighting. One way for them to do this is by allowing illegal immigration to increase unhindered. To allow them MORE benefits than Citizens, some of the time.

I've also watched as whole towns went from very nice places to live to completely overrun with illegals/MS-13/crime.

If we didn't have countries, if we weren't taxed, if illegals were NOT getting anything for free, if they were punished for their crimes, perhaps, PERHAPS things would be a little different.

I can certainly understand the aggravation some people have here with the problems of illegal immigration, because it is a system that is meant to sow dischord among people and chip away more and more at "WE THE PEOPLE". When we're divided and have all of these reasons piling up to fight each other, we FORGET to fight the real enemy: Our stinking out of control cesspool of a government.

It's a MAJOR problem. This isn't an ideal world. We have to work within the parameters we currently have. Just like Rand Paul having to work WITHIN the Republican Party.

I have no other country. People who come here DO have another country. This is my only home.
If you want to come here, then you come here the proper way, you don't sneak in the back door and then demand handouts and schooling and medical care and a slap on the wrist when you commit crimes that hurt other people.
Are there PLENTY of truly wonderful, hardworking people who want to come here? YES. But that is besides the point.
Come in the proper way.
This isn't anarchy.
Right now, we DO have countries.
We are not kumbaya, ALL IS ONE.
This is still Planet Hell (Earth) at the moment.

Screaming for more government to stop a problem caused by the government is NOT the answer.

The answer is simple but it seems waaaaay to hard to change stupid unconstitutional and anti-freedom laws, so the answer of "freedom" advocates is to create more laws and more government.

Go figure.

Pauls' Revere
03-31-2019, 02:44 PM
If people wanna come to this country, they're on their own. It's bull$#@! we're forced through taxation not only to pay for their living expenses, but also to help pay for the college education of their kids so they can take the good jobs, too.


100% agreed.

^^^these^^^

Now eliminate the welfare state and the left.

Anti Federalist
03-31-2019, 02:45 PM
It's so frustrating to see people whom I've forever believed were moored in good principle end up so easily swayed by such obvious propaganda.

What principles have I abandoned? Unlike some, who receive much less vitriol, I am not here advocating for universal health care, or increased taxation, or a "green new deal" or excusing gun control as 43rd Dimension chess or defending cops.

I am still in favor of limited government, property rights, individual liberty, non-interventionism, the Bill of Rights, unrestricted rights to self defense, association, speech, rights of the accused and so on.

But in the past couple of years, I have open warfare declared on me and my posterity. One of the weapons in this war is forced displacement by importation of millions of migrants.


Whatever. You can have this place. Swordsmyth, his post-per-quarter-waking-hour rate, and his ilk have buried it. Rand has buried it. You have buried it.
Do you want an echo chamber or discussion and debate?


You guys apparently didn't understand that our movement lived and breathed on PRINCIPLE. Without it, this is just a GOP recruiting website.

Other than some mild praise of Trump on a few limited occasions, where I have waved the GOP Uber Alles flag?

The fact is that locally the GOP is better option, and there is no questioning that.

I am seeing it play out in my home state right before my eyes.

Everything you somehow think I am now in favor of, I am vigorously opposing locally, and all because democrat Bolsheviks swept into power.

Swordsmyth
03-31-2019, 02:46 PM
Why didn't they make it worse when Obama was president then if it would have been worse yet without him? The logic doesn't add up.
They are desperate to get the frog boiled because it is starting to hop out of the pot, they thought they were proceeding slowly enough that we wouldn't wake up but Trump winning showed them that people were starting to wake up.

Now they want to try to invade us fast enough that we can't do anything about it even if we wake up and they want to make Trump look bad so people like you will blame him even though he is beginning to solve the problem.

Anti Federalist
03-31-2019, 02:47 PM
You're barking up the wrong tree. But I'm not the one who's going to show you that.

You've broken my heart, RPF. My hope is gone.

If speaking my mind here is so insignificant of an action, so meaningless in the great grand warp and woof of life, then why are you getting so foaming at the mouth upset about it?

PursuePeace
03-31-2019, 02:49 PM
Screaming for more government to stop a problem caused by the government is NOT the answer.

The answer is simple but it seems waaaaay to hard to change stupid unconstitutional and anti-freedom laws, so the answer of "freedom" advocates is to create more laws and more government.

Go figure.




It needs to be fixed.
How else do you propose fixing it WITHOUT Government?
I mean, I'm all ears, here. (sincerely.)

Swordsmyth
03-31-2019, 02:50 PM
(noting that asylum seekers are behaving legally- not illegally)
LOL

It's still illegal to cross the border and even if you were right that would just mean that the invasion is being facilitated by traitors who corrupted our laws.

Swordsmyth
03-31-2019, 02:51 PM
Bull$#@!.

Opinions are great. Everyone has them.

Here, we have principles. Or at least we used to.
We do have principles and securing the border and preserving liberty against communist invaders have ALWAYS been part of them.

A Son of Liberty
03-31-2019, 02:53 PM
We do have principles and securing the border and preserving liberty against communist invaders have ALWAYS been part of them.

Shooting foreigners is the exact opposite of what THIS MOVEMENT has ALWAYS been about.

But you're not here for this movement. You're here to overthrow it.

TheTexan
03-31-2019, 02:55 PM
Shooting foreigners is the exact opposite of what THIS MOVEMENT has ALWAYS been about.

Amen to that! Shooting foreigners at the border is a horrible idea. It would never work!

Land mines would be much better.

A Son of Liberty
03-31-2019, 02:56 PM
Do you want an echo chamber or discussion and debate?'

Honest debate is one thing. Misrepresenting what we here (used) to stand for is something else altogether.

Whatever. Your view is seemingly in the majority here now. Have it. Own it. Best of luck.

TheTexan
03-31-2019, 02:57 PM
But in the past couple of years, I have open warfare declared on me and my posterity.

With this open warfare against us, we gotta be careful at the polls in 2020. The voting is gonna get heated. There might even be casualties.

It's never too early to start stocking up on supplies. Stickers and so on.

Origanalist
03-31-2019, 02:57 PM
They are desperate to get the frog boiled because it is starting to hop out of the pot, they thought they were proceeding slowly enough that we wouldn't wake up but Trump winning showed them that people were starting to wake up.

Now they want to try to invade us fast enough that we can't do anything about it even if we wake up and they want to make Trump look bad so people like you will blame him even though he is beginning to solve the problem.

Ya, I don't see it. I guess my problem is I never believed anything he said. And I haven't seen much to change my mind. He blusters, backs up and sputters. It's true he get's shot down frequently, but who's to blame for that? If a lawyer is continually losing cases is it the courts fault?

Swordsmyth
03-31-2019, 02:58 PM
Shooting foreigners is the exact opposite of what THIS MOVEMENT has ALWAYS been about.
Tell the to the Minute Men who shot foreigners at Concorde Bridge or the Militiamen who shot foreigners with Andrew Jackson at New Orleans.
Protecting American independence and liberty IS EXACTLY what this movement HAS ALWAYS been about.


But you're not here for this movement. You're here to overthrow it.
That is what you anarchists are trying to do whether you realize it or not.

Swordsmyth
03-31-2019, 03:00 PM
Honest debate is one thing. Misrepresenting what we here (used) to stand for is something else altogether.
You are the one doing that, Ron ran on border security.


Whatever. Your view is seemingly in the majority here now. Have it. Own it. Best of luck.
We always were the majority in the movement, you anarchists were just more vocal for a while.

Swordsmyth
03-31-2019, 03:02 PM
^^^these^^^

Now eliminate the welfare state and the left.
Which we must stop the invasion in order to do.

Origanalist
03-31-2019, 03:02 PM
Amen to that! Shooting foreigners at the border is a horrible idea. It would never work!

Land mines would be much better.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21vVxIioBF8

Ender
03-31-2019, 03:03 PM
It needs to be fixed.
How else do you propose fixing it WITHOUT Government?
I mean, I'm all ears, here. (sincerely.)

Has to start with Self.

Learning REAL history & what REAL liberty entails. Question everything.

Then, teaching others, standing for what is right, not spreading hate. The peaceful way is to do this on-going and build a local population of true freedom lovers. If everyone on this forum did this continually & spread the concept of freedom in their local communities, the results would soon flood DC & could be amazing.

Swordsmyth
03-31-2019, 03:05 PM
Has to start with Self.

Learning REAL history & what REAL liberty entails. Question everything.

Then, teaching others, standing for what is right, not spreading hate. The peaceful way is to do this on-going and build a local population of true freedom lovers. If everyone on this forum did this continually & spread the concept of freedom in their local communities, the results would soon flood DC & could be amazing.

You will never build a local population of true freedom lovers if unlimited numbers of freedom haters are allowed to invade faster than you can educate them. (many of them will never listen)

Anti Federalist
03-31-2019, 03:05 PM
Honest debate is one thing. Misrepresenting what we here (used) to stand for is something else altogether.

Whatever. Your view is seemingly in the majority here now. Have it. Own it. Best of luck.

Ron Paul was on the record as saying that the troops should be brought home and used to defend the republic.

He said that so many times I can't count.

He said it to me personally, face to face, at a campaign event in NH.

I supported him, in part, because of that, but that wasn't my primary motivator.

The only reason I am making a "big deal" of it now, is because I perceive an aggressive new front in this demographic war to have opened up.

I'm trying to explain to you why I perceive that, and all you want to do is either rage-quit or dog cuss me.

Ender
03-31-2019, 03:07 PM
Ya, I don't see it. I guess my problem is I never believed anything he said. And I haven't seen much to change my mind. He blusters, backs up and sputters. It's true he get's shot down frequently, but who's to blame for that? If a lawyer is continually losing cases is it the courts fault?


LOL- Trump is a brat who loves being in the spotlight and understands perfectly that there ain't no baaaad publicity. His "Art of the Deal" is to let his mouth spew out whatever he thinks will get him what he wants while he surrounds himself with "The Swamp".

Swordsmyth
03-31-2019, 03:07 PM
That also is what separates the immigrants from the past from the immigrants of today. The immigrants of the past came here to work for a better life. The immigrants today come here to get a life for free.
And the immigrants of the past still contributed to the decline of liberty because too many were allowed to come here.
The immigrants of today are pure poison for liberty.

Ender
03-31-2019, 03:10 PM
Ron Paul was on the record as saying that the troops should be brought home and used to defend the republic.

He said that so many times I can't count.

He said it to me personally, face to face, at a campaign event in NH.

I supported him, in part, because of that, but that wasn't my primary motivator.

The only reason I am making a "big deal" of it now, is because I perceive an aggressive new front in this demographic war to have opened up.

I'm trying to explain to you why I perceive that, and all you want to do is either quit or dog cuss me.

RP's also on record for saying exactly how to handle immigration sensibly and w/o aggression.

When the border was not protected after 911, I knew full well everything was a gov ruse- and I was a kid.

Dr.3D
03-31-2019, 03:11 PM
Amen to that! Shooting foreigners at the border is a horrible idea. It would never work!

Land mines would be much better.
Maybe just putting up some signs in Spanish that read, "Land mines!" would be enough.

Anti Federalist
03-31-2019, 03:13 PM
When the border was not protected after 911, I knew full well everything was a gov ruse- and I was a kid.

Yes, this, very much so.

Again, that is one reason why I supported Ron.

If you (.gov) were really serious, you would have withdrawn from the senseless wars and put the troops on the border.

Swordsmyth
03-31-2019, 03:15 PM
Screaming for more government to stop a problem caused by the government is NOT the answer.

The answer is simple but it seems waaaaay to hard to change stupid unconstitutional and anti-freedom laws, so the answer of "freedom" advocates is to create more laws and more government.

Go figure.
The problem IS NOT a problem caused by government, it is caused by an abdication of a legitimate government function.
The problem is made worse by other government actions and we oppose those but it must also be solved by making the government do its job that it has refused to do.

Swordsmyth
03-31-2019, 03:17 PM
RP's also on record for saying exactly how to handle immigration sensibly and w/o aggression.

And it included putting the troops on the border.

And shooting invaders is defensive, IT IS NOT AGGRESSION.

Anti Federalist
03-31-2019, 03:18 PM
RP's also on record for saying exactly how to handle immigration sensibly and w/o aggression.

This is not "immigration".

It is Fifth Generation demographic warfare.

PursuePeace
03-31-2019, 03:23 PM
Has to start with Self.

Learning REAL history & what REAL liberty entails. Question everything.

Then, teaching others, standing for what is right, not spreading hate. The peaceful way is to do this on-going and build a local population of true freedom lovers. If everyone on this forum did this continually & spread the concept of freedom in their local communities, the results would soon flood DC & could be amazing.

Ender, That is the IDEALISTIC view. It's nice, yes, lovely. But it is in no way practical in this situation. This is reality. Not fantasy. We're dealing with real human beings with real biases and prejudices and entitlements, distrust, envy, and ignorance. A "new way of seeing things" is NOT what people are looking for, here, and I think you know that. Why not affect change in the country you were born in, instead of seeking out another country?

As far as educating people, etc.. I think we pretty much all do that as much as we possibly can wherever we go and with whomever we meet. But you also don't throw other solutions out of the window because they have to do with governmental solutions. We're still operating under a government and we need to work within it at the moment.

Maybe I'm jaded and not as idealistic as I once was. Perhaps because being too idealistic can become a hindrance to progress.

Also, what is "spreading hate"? Can you clarify? Not sure if you were speaking to something specific I said or proposed or what. I hate vagueness when it comes to people saying things like "spreading hate".

Anti Federalist
03-31-2019, 03:29 PM
Ender, That is the IDEALISTIC view. It's nice, yes, lovely. But it is in no way practical in this situation. This is reality. Not fantasy. We're dealing with real human beings with real biases and prejudices and entitlements, distrust, envy, and ignorance. A "new way of seeing things" is NOT what people are looking for, here, and I think you know that. Why not affect change in the country you were born in, instead of seeking out another country?

As far as educating people, etc.. I think we pretty much all do that as much as we possibly can wherever we go and with whomever we meet. But you also don't throw other solutions out of the window because they have to do with governmental solutions. We're still operating under a government and we need to work within it at the moment.

Maybe I'm jaded and not as idealistic as I once was. Perhaps because being too idealistic can become a hindrance to progress.

Also, what is "spreading hate"? Can you clarify? Not sure if you were speaking to something specific I said or proposed or what. I hate vagueness when it comes to people saying things like "spreading hate".

Yes, that, exactly.

kona
03-31-2019, 03:57 PM
And it included putting the troops on the border.

And shooting invaders is defensive, IT IS NOT AGGRESSION.
It also includes a wall.

Danke
03-31-2019, 04:39 PM
Amen to that! Shooting foreigners at the border is a horrible idea. It would never work!

Land mines would be much better.

Claymore mines facing south would be better.

Zippyjuan
03-31-2019, 04:59 PM
And the immigrants of the past still contributed to the decline of liberty because too many were allowed to come here.
The immigrants of today are pure poison for liberty.

Immigrants like your ancestors.

Zippyjuan
03-31-2019, 05:01 PM
And it included putting the troops on the border.

And shooting invaders is defensive, IT IS NOT AGGRESSION.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2012-feb-01-la-pn-ron-paul-nevada-latino-forum-20120201-story.html


Paul said he's not one of those politicians who believes that "barbed-wire fences and guns on our border will solve any of our problems." That's not, he said, the American way. And he doesn't think that a national identification card is the way to go.

What the country does need, he said, is "a much better immigration service" fed by more resources.

Swordsmyth
03-31-2019, 05:07 PM
Immigrants like your ancestors.
Ask the Injuns how they worked out.

Everybody's ancestors came from somewhere else all over the world, that doesn't mean we have to allow anyone to come here just because they want to.

Swordsmyth
03-31-2019, 05:08 PM
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2012-feb-01-la-pn-ron-paul-nevada-latino-forum-20120201-story.html
I got into trouble with Libertarians because I said there may well be a time when immigration is like an invasion and we have to treat it differently. - Ron Paul on "Meet the Press" 23 Dec 2007 (http://www.ontheissues.org/tx/Ron_Paul_Immigration.htm)

That time is NOW.

Ender
03-31-2019, 05:19 PM
Ender, That is the IDEALISTIC view. It's nice, yes, lovely. But it is in no way practical in this situation. This is reality. Not fantasy. We're dealing with real human beings with real biases and prejudices and entitlements, distrust, envy, and ignorance. A "new way of seeing things" is NOT what people are looking for, here, and I think you know that. Why not affect change in the country you were born in, instead of seeking out another country?

As far as educating people, etc.. I think we pretty much all do that as much as we possibly can wherever we go and with whomever we meet. But you also don't throw other solutions out of the window because they have to do with governmental solutions. We're still operating under a government and we need to work within it at the moment.

Maybe I'm jaded and not as idealistic as I once was. Perhaps because being too idealistic can become a hindrance to progress.

Also, what is "spreading hate"? Can you clarify? Not sure if you were speaking to something specific I said or proposed or what. I hate vagueness when it comes to people saying things like "spreading hate".

No, was not speaking of you personally- I think your heart is good- AF's as well.

The problem we are facing is not, IMHPOV, immigration- that is actually receding- the problem is the hate & discontent that certain factions are spreading to get everyone fighting each other & not paying attention to what's really going down.

Begging for more gov to solve gov problems is definitely living in the Matrix. It is NOT being idealistic to teach liberty at the local level- it is being practical. It is NOT the immigrants who take your stuff- it is .gov. If we continue to say we can't change the gov so we have to have more gov, then all we are doing is building the Berlin Wall to protect our "freedom" which is basically non-existent.

The 2nd Amendment was about this very thing. The "militia" was LOCAL men, 14 yrs & up, who were to help protect their communities- especially from corrupt gov/laws. We have what we have now because people no longer understand this.

And, all the carpe said about todays immigrants was also said about the Irish, Germans, Italians, Asians etc.

Some haters seem to be specifically on this forum to keep the pot stirred- and no, YOU are not one of these.

timosman
03-31-2019, 05:25 PM
No, was not speaking of you personally- I think your heart is good- AF's as well.

The problem we are facing is not, IMHPOV, immigration- that is actually receding- the problem is the hate & discontent that certain factions are spreading to get everyone fighting each other & not paying attention to what's really going down.

Begging for more gov to solve gov problems is definitely living in the Matrix. It is NOT being idealistic to teach liberty at the local level- it is being practical. It is NOT the immigrants who take your stuff- it is .gov. If we continue to say we can't change the gov so we have to have more gov, then all we are doing is building the Berlin Wall to protect our "freedom" which is basically non-existent.

The 2nd Amendment was about this very thing. The "militia" was LOCAL men, 14 yrs & up, who were to help protect their communities- especially from corrupt gov/laws. We have what we have now because people no longer understand this.

And, all the carpe said about todays immigrants was also said about the Irish, Germans, Italians, Asians etc.

Some haters seem to be specifically on this forum to keep the pot stirred- and no, YOU are not one of these.

Ender is only called upon when shit gets serious. He usually uses scenes from The Matrix to make his point and calls for more open borders. :tears:

Swordsmyth
03-31-2019, 05:27 PM
No, was not speaking of you personally- I think your heart is good- AF's as well.

The problem we are facing is not, IMHPOV, immigration- that is actually receding- the problem is the hate & discontent that certain factions are spreading to get everyone fighting each other & not paying attention to what's really going down.

Begging for more gov to solve gov problems is definitely living in the Matrix. It is NOT being idealistic to teach liberty at the local level- it is being practical. It is NOT the immigrants who take your stuff- it is .gov. If we continue to say we can't change the gov so we have to have more gov, then all we are doing is building the Berlin Wall to protect our "freedom" which is basically non-existent.

The 2nd Amendment was about this very thing. The "militia" was LOCAL men, 14 yrs & up, who were to help protect their communities- especially from corrupt gov/laws. We have what we have now because people no longer understand this.

And, all the carpe said about todays immigrants was also said about the Irish, Germans, Italians, Asians etc.

Some haters seem to be specifically on this forum to keep the pot stirred- and no, YOU are not one of these.
The threat from the invasion is growing, it is not receding and the immigrants vote to grow the government, the current flood is worse than the Irish, Germans, Italians, Asians etc. who came in past waves but even they were responsible for the decline of liberty in America.

Securing the border isn't growing government, government is already charged with that duty and we won't be able to reduce government at all as long as an unlimited number of people who want bigger government are allowed to come here.

Swordsmyth
03-31-2019, 05:28 PM
Ender is only called upon when $#@! gets serious. He usually uses scenes from The Matrix to make his point and calls for more open borders. :tears:
I notice he had nothing to say about the insults hurled at AF (his supposed friend), Ender only uses the civility argument against people who are to his right, leftists and anarchists get a free pass no matter how nasty they get.

Ender
03-31-2019, 05:33 PM
Ender is only called upon when $#@! gets serious. He usually uses scenes from The Matrix to make his point and calls for more open borders. :tears:

So says the SwordShyll puppet.

Ender
03-31-2019, 05:35 PM
I notice he had nothing to say about the insults hurled at AF (his supposed friend), Ender only uses the civility argument against people who are to his right, leftists and anarchists get a free pass no matter how nasty they get.

YOU are probably the nastiest poster on this forum. And I did say good about AF- learn to read Mr. Hater.

timosman
03-31-2019, 05:37 PM
So says the SwordShyll puppet.

https://www.dsausa.org/wp-content/themes/dsamain/img/mainlogo.svg

Swordsmyth
03-31-2019, 05:39 PM
YOU are probably the nastiest poster on this forum.
LOL


And I did say good about AF- learn to read Mr. Hater.
And you had absolutely nothing to say to the person who was nasty to him.

You never have anything to say when the leftists and anarchists are nasty, no matter how vicious they are.

timosman
03-31-2019, 05:42 PM
YOU are probably the nastiest poster on this forum. And I did say good about AF- learn to read Mr. Hater.

I like Zippy and while I hurl nasty invectives at those who oppose socialism, it is only to promote the site mission and to provide support to the true defenders of liberty. :tears:

Swordsmyth
03-31-2019, 05:44 PM
I like Zippy and while I hurl nasty invectives at those who oppose socialism, it is only to promote the site mission and to provide support to the true defenders of liberty. :tears:

You must spread some reputation around...............................

phill4paul
03-31-2019, 06:26 PM
The problem we are facing is not, IMHPOV, immigration- that is actually receding-

Are you being serious? Or are you speaking of LEGAL immigration? Because if you are talking about the illegal trespassers you haven't been keeping up on current events for..about the last 5 months.

phill4paul
03-31-2019, 06:28 PM
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2012-feb-01-la-pn-ron-paul-nevada-latino-forum-20120201-story.html


What the country does need, he said, is "a much better immigration service" fed by more resources.

So Ron's calling for a bigger Federal government?

phill4paul
03-31-2019, 06:30 PM
Claymore mines facing south would be better.

Works for me. At that point it becomes a choice on the part of the trespasser. But, PETA are gonna bitch about the eradication of the South American three-toed Armidillo during their annual migration.

phill4paul
03-31-2019, 06:38 PM
This is not "immigration".

It is Fifth Generation demographic warfare.

Some people just don't get it. This is not about the old argument on immigration. This is about voter demographic warfare which leads to socialism. This is about having a Republic, IF we can keep it. So many here don't care to keep it. Socialism sounds like a better plan.

Ender
03-31-2019, 06:40 PM
Are you being serious? Or are you speaking of LEGAL immigration? Because if you are talking about the illegal trespassers you haven't been keeping up on current events for..about the last 5 months.


How many immigrants are living in the U.S. illegally?

There were 12 million immigrants living in the country illegally as of January 2015, according to the most recent estimate from the Department of Homeland Security. The estimates from two independent groups are similar: The Pew Research Center estimates the number at 10.7 million in 2016, and the Center for Migration Studies says there were 10.8 million people in 2016 living in the U.S. illegally.

That would be about 3.3 percent to 3.7 percent of the total U.S. population in 2016 or 2015.

All three groups use Census Bureau data on the foreign-born or noncitizens and adjust to subtract the legal immigrant population.

DHS estimated that the growth of the illegal immigrant population had slowed considerably, saying the population increased by 470,000 per year from 2000 to 2007, but only by 70,000 per year from 2010 to 2015.

CMS found a decline in the undocumented population, and specifically those from Mexico, of about 1 million since 2010. And the Pew Research Center found a peak of 12.2 million in the population in 2007, and a decline since.
https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illegal-immigration-statistics/

Swordsmyth
03-31-2019, 06:43 PM
How many immigrants are living in the U.S. illegally?

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illegal-immigration-statistics/

Yale study finds illegal migrant numbers twice the accepted norm of 11 million (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?526703-Yale-study-finds-illegal-migrant-numbers-twice-the-accepted-norm-of-11-million&highlight=yale)And they are coming in ever larger numbers.

phill4paul
03-31-2019, 06:52 PM
Immigrants like your ancestors.

My ancestors didn't come here penniless paupers taking advantage of a Republican form of government, now re-imagined, that provided them with housing, food, medical care and education, at other citizens expense. They didn't come here with the expectation of America changing for their benefit, but, instead, with the expectation that their changing, becoming American, would lead to prosperity, freedom and a better life.

phill4paul
03-31-2019, 06:55 PM
How many immigrants are living in the U.S. illegally?

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illegal-immigration-statistics/

You're not keeping up. And I'm not in the mood to throw figures at you that blow that old data away. Christ, use search on these forums and google. I'm not in the mood to teach a man to fish that should know better or has simply forgotten.

Ender
03-31-2019, 07:35 PM
You're not keeping up. And I'm not in the mood to throw figures at you that blow that old data away. Christ, use search on these forums and google. I'm not in the mood to teach a man to fish that should know better or has simply forgotten.

I am keeping up- and I do know better. This is all a ruse to keep everyone at each other's throats- plus the real problem immigrants are coming from countries that the US continually meddles in- maybe we should do something about that- ya think?

Swordsmyth
03-31-2019, 07:40 PM
I am keeping up- and I do know better. This is all a ruse to keep everyone at each other's throats-
It isn't a ruse, it is an invasion designed to overwhelm us so that we can be subjected to things Americans wouldn't allow.


plus the real problem immigrants are coming from countries that the US continually meddles in- maybe we should do something about that- ya think?
I don't hear anyone saying we shouldn't but we must stop the invasion now whether we are able to stop the meddling or not.

phill4paul
03-31-2019, 07:50 PM
I am keeping up- and I do know better. This is all a ruse to keep everyone at each other's throats- plus the real problem immigrants are coming from countries that the US continually meddles in- maybe we should do something about that- ya think?

You don't. Your head is up your ass. Sorry, but they are coming. They are coming in numbers that grow everyday. Aon't change the subject. They are coming here, as you say more than likely by design. But, that doesn't men we have to let them illegally trespass and by doing so take advantage of a broken Republic. What you don't understand that just letting them all in works against your "solution." If they are allowed in you can kiss any semblance of a Republic goodbye. You'll have socialism. So the choice is yours. Stopping the tide that will drive socialism, or stopping the tide that will create a socialist nation while at the same time trying to reign in a Republican government that has gone off the rails. You can't have both.

Ender
03-31-2019, 08:21 PM
You don't. Your head is up your ass. Sorry, but they are coming. They are coming in numbers that grow everyday. Aon't change the subject. They are coming here, as you say more than likely by design. But, that doesn't men we have to let them illegally trespass and by doing so take advantage of a broken Republic. What you don't understand that just letting them all in works against your "solution." If they are allowed in you can kiss any semblance of a Republic goodbye. You'll have socialism. So the choice is yours. Stopping the tide that will drive socialism, or stopping the tide that will create a socialist nation while at the same time trying to reign in a Republican government that has gone off the rails. You can't have both.

What you are advocating is Collectivism. Socialism/Collectivism- no difference.
https://mises.org/wire/yes-socialism-collectivism-and-capitalism-wage-system



The Immigration Question
By Butler Shaffer

There are a number of watershed issues that help to define the meaning of liberty. How one responds to the practice of warfare is one such question. Individuals may disagree as to whether engaging in political action is a justifiable way of reducing or eliminating state power, yet, each may still be regarded as an advocate of liberty. War, however, constitutes a threshold, the crossing of which places a defender of such practices beyond even the most generous definition of libertarian. If "liberty" means anything, it consists of an unqualified respect for individual claims to immunity from coercion. The war system insists upon a mass dismissal of such claims, characterizing their adherents as "traitors" to the alleged "greater good" of the state.

There is another issue which, while not as fundamental to the life-and-death implications of warfare, nonetheless goes to the essence of the meaning of individual liberty: the freedom of people to move from one location on the planet to another without getting the permission of the state. This is the question that underlies current discussions on the so-called "immigration problem."

My criticism of all state action stems from my belief in the importance of property ownership. Liberty has meaning only insofar as it is the worldly expression of individual claims to self-ownership. To be an owner is to insist upon the authority to exercise control over some portion of the world, including one’s self. It is the idea and practice of such individually-directed decision-making that makes every state the unavoidable enemy of liberty. Take away the existential basis for such a claim, and each of us gets reduced to nothing more than a resource for others to exploit for their purposes. As I tell my students on the first day of my property classes, if you claim self-ownership, why do you allow others to exercise control over you? And if you do not assert self-ownership, what objections can you raise to others’ exercise of such coercive power?

The immigration debate is implicitly — and almost never explicitly — grounded in the property principle. The rationale for the government being able to exclude foreigners from entering the country is that such persons are "trespassing" upon some presumed property interests of "America." Clever speakers will often try to analogize people coming into America without the permission of the government, to someone camping out on your front lawn without your consent. The problem with this analogy is that it assumes too much, namely, that the state enjoys the same property rights within the territorial boundaries it has established, as do individuals regarding their claims to their lands. But what is the basis for either set of claims? Can the state be an "owner" of anything in the same way that an individual can?

John Locke, Thomas Hodgskin, and a few others did a good job developing abstract principles of liberty as extensions of the underlying premise of self-ownership. To such minds, the state was no more than an agent, assigned by its creators the task of collectively protecting individual interests. Unfortunately, they failed to see the self-contradictory idea that political systems could be created by free individuals as a way of protecting their life, liberty, and property interests. They ought to have understood conceptually, if not historically, that the first things governments do is tax and control your property, regulate your actions, and even take your life via warfare. Empirically, the fallacy of these illusions has been demonstrated from at least the mid-19th century into the present. How a system — theoretically designed as the agent of owners to protect their property interests — could, itself, become an owner of the interests it was designed to defend, is a contradiction most of our contemporaries steadfastly refuse to examine.

As with government control generally, the power of the state to prevent or regulate immigration is grounded in the doctrine of collectivism. When governments build walls or fences around politically-defined boundaries, they are doing what all other property owners do: staking out their claims to everything contained within. It’s just an extension of the earlier ritual of explorers planting flags on the shores of newly-discovered lands and claiming them for one monarch or another. From China’s "great wall," to Hadrian’s wall, to the Berlin wall, to current efforts to install a fence across the Mexican-American border, governments have built barriers that restrain both their own people and those seeking entry. The principle that allows this to occur is that the state enjoys some collective ownership interest that differs from — and is in conflict with — individual property claims. The state, through no other principle than the coercive force that defines it, is able to transform itself from an agency of protection into a principal interest to be protected!

What legitimizes this? If I were to start a business, does that enterprise acquire an independent claim to self-ownership, wholly apart from my interests or desires? Should a corporation, as a fictional "person," enjoy rights contrary to those of the stockholders who own this entity? Would any judge who recognized these organizations having "rights" that transcended the wills of their owners, be able to avoid the hours of psychiatric couch-time upon which rational minds might insist?

The question that must be addressed — in this issue as in all others — is this: do the rights to own and control property inhere in individuals or in the collective powers of the state? If such authority resides in the state — as government immigration practices presume — then what was the objection so many of us had to the erstwhile Soviet Union or the continuing People’s Republic of China? Did the Cold War amount to nothing more than a competition among various collective systems, including the United States? The intellectual ancestry of the now-ruling class of Neocon Commissars — operating under such collectivist labels as Homeland Security — suggests that this is so. Having long embraced collectivist thinking, most Americans find it easy to accept their status as "assets" or "resources" to be directed by the forces they delude themselves to believe they control!

The pursuit of self-interest is an attribute that characterizes all living beings, including humans. One expression of this pursuit has been that our ancestors, as well as ourselves, have been in constant migration. Wherever mankind originated — Africa seems to contain the earliest evidence for this — we have moved throughout the globe. From Africa, into the Middle East, Europe, Asia, North and South America, we continue to wander, seeking the pursuit of our interests in one locale or another. Those who sit here, in America, and chirp at those who want to emigrate from Central America into the United States, forget that they enjoy their present benefits only because their ancestors moved from other parts of the globe here.

There is a wonderful line in A Tale of Two Cities. Whether it originated in Dickens’ text or in the movie script I do not recall. In the early days of the French Revolution, a family is trying to enter Paris, only to be stopped at the city gate by a sentry who tells them: "you are foreigners." The husband/father replies: "you arrived yesterday, we arrived today."

We may one day discover that we have a genetic disposition for both intellectual (i.e., learning) and geographic movement; needs that include, but also transcend, materialistic motivations. When asked what they most like to do, most people respond with "travel" as among their highest choices. Those who admit to never having been outside the county in which they were born tend to be regarded by others as freakish souls; devoid of the broader perspectives that derive from travel.

In his Nobel Prize lecture, the poet Seamus Heaney observed that we humans "are hunters and gatherers of values," a process that implicates movement. At the same time, the inviolability of individual property boundaries is essential to each of us as we pursue the personal sense of meaning in our lives. At this point, we experience what, superficially, appears as a paradox: does individual liberty entail mutual conflict — and, thus, social disorder — as we each pursue our interests? Not if private property principles are observed. For within such apparent contradictions is a deeper, harmonizing truth: what we have in common with one another is a need to protect our individual liberty.

It is within my authority, as a property owner, to prevent another from moving onto my land without my consent. If, however, I try to extend such authority to prevent others from moving into territory that is not mine, I overstep my boundaries and no longer behave as an owner. I then become a trespasser of the self-ownership claims of others. So, too, with the state, when it acts to prevent others from entering the country. Or does the state have an ownership interest in the entire country? If so, how was this interest acquired, and how far do the state’s boundary claims extend?

Collectivism is rarely presented as an entire package, but is smuggled into our thinking in subtle ways. Ideas such as the "common good," the "general welfare," and "homeland security," are but a few of such means. Separated from our shared interests in defining our personal sense of "good," and acting to promote our "welfare" by enjoying the "security" that comes from respecting the life and property boundaries of one another, such phrases amount to empty abstractions that cloud ambitions of state power. So, too, is the campaign against immigrants grounded in a presumed state-ownership that defines all collectivist systems.

The Best of Butler Shaffer

Butler Shaffer is Professor Emeritus at Southwestern University School of Law.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2008/05/butler-shaffer/the-immigration-question/

Swordsmyth
03-31-2019, 08:24 PM
What you are advocating is Collectivism. Socialism/Collectivism- no difference.
https://mises.org/wire/yes-socialism-collectivism-and-capitalism-wage-system


https://www.lewrockwell.com/2008/05/butler-shaffer/the-immigration-question/
Groups exist and you must have one in order to deal with them.


Mises on Nationalism, the Right of Self-Determination, and the Problem of Immigration (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?519390-Mises-on-Nationalism-the-Right-of-Self-Determination-and-the-Problem-of-Immigration)

Anti Federalist
03-31-2019, 08:35 PM
Immigrants like your ancestors.

Ask American Indians how uncontrolled immigration worked out for them.

I don't want to end up like the Cherokee.

Swordsmyth
03-31-2019, 08:38 PM
Ask American Indians how uncontrolled immigration worked out for them.

I don't want to end up like the Cherokee.
And we won't get parked on land that turns out to have oil under it.
We probably will just be parked 6 feet under.

Danke
03-31-2019, 08:47 PM
Are people now so stupid to think "collectivism" or what ever you what to call it, is not neccsarry to protect your property?

OK, stand out as an individual against the mob and try to assert your property rights. Good luck with that. No, as hard as it is for the anarchist here to understand, people form groups. That will manifests itself in what we call governments.

But hey, go ahead and think you are the principled one standing alone against the group of libertarians. That very group that wants to leave you alone. It is tactics versus strategics. Study that.

We are being taxed to support our demise.

One need to belong to a group effort to stop another group that wants to continue and expand that. If you can't see that, well just follow the stupid argument that you are a human rights warrior and no one should be restricted from coming here. Do you lock your doors? Who do rely on when the mob comes to rob you?

Your neighbors?

Well, that is a group standing together, for a common defense. OMG, my HOA says you can't come onto my neighborhood and shit on my lawn. I will have to pay for that. But wait, who am I to say a neighboring community member can't freely travel to my neighborhood and shit on my lawn? Why should I be able to hire a person to prevent that? Why should I be able to build a barrier so they don't come over here and I have to pick up the taps for their expenses?

Swordsmyth
03-31-2019, 08:54 PM
Are people now so stupid to think "collectivism" or what ever you what to call it, is not neccsarry to protect your property?

OK, stand out as an individual against the mob and try to assert your property rights. Good luck with that. No, as hard as it is for the anarchist here to understand, people form groups. That will manifests itself in what we call governments.

But hey, go ahead and think you are the principled one standing alone against the group of libertarians. That very group that wants to leave you alone. It is tactics versus strategics. Study that.

We are being taxed to support our demise.

One need to belong to a group effort to stop another group that wants to continue and expand that. If you can't see that, well just follow the stupid argument that you are a human rights warrior and no one should be restricted from coming here. Do you lock your doors? Who do rely on when the mob comes to rob you?

Your neighbors?

Well, that is a group standing together, for a common defense. OMG, my HOA says you can come onto my neighborhood and $#@! on my lawn. I will have to pay for that. But wait, who am I to say a neighboring community member can't freely travel to my neighborhood and $#@! on my lawn? Why should I be able to hire a person to prevent that? Why should I be able to build a barrier so they don't come over here and I have to pick up the taps for their expenses?

Anarchists insist that if everyone would be a pure individualist then groups wouldn't be necessary but you will never get the rest of the world to agree to be pure individualists and unorganized individuals will never be able to defend themselves against organized groups.
But the anarchists insist that we should put an end to our groups first anyway, it is just like the pacifists that insist that if everyone would renounce violence and weapons then weapons wouldn't be necessary so you should be the first to give yours up and set an example for the world.

tfurrh
03-31-2019, 09:43 PM
Ask the Injuns how they worked out.

Everybody's ancestors came from somewhere else all over the world, that doesn't mean we have to allow anyone to come here just because they want to.

My ancestor was a panda

Anti Federalist
03-31-2019, 09:46 PM
No, was not speaking of you personally- I think your heart is good- AF's as well.

Plenty will disbelieve that. But it's true. I want freedom and liberty. Most people do not. I am trying my damnedest to work in the real to try and achieve that.

To have "allies" then back stab and insult me and my family, does not help.


The 2nd Amendment was about this very thing. The "militia" was LOCAL men, 14 yrs & up, who were to help protect their communities- especially from corrupt gov/laws. We have what we have now because people no longer understand this.

If called, I would go tomorrow and serve my time.

All POTUS has to do is say the word and grant "free pratique" to not get arrested by Bolshevik cops along the way.


And, all the crap said about today's immigrants was also said about the Irish, Germans, Italians, Asians etc.

Yes, and it took strict limits on immigration, signed into law by one of the most libertarian presidents this country has ever had, to get a handle on it, before we blew up into a "Red and White" war like Russia did.

Which we are on the verge of now...literally.

A descending "Iron Curtain" part two, complete with death camps, GULAGS and unpersons.

LibertyEagle
03-31-2019, 11:49 PM
Immigrants like your ancestors.

Those were settlers; not "eeemigrunts".

Danke
04-01-2019, 07:08 AM
Obama-era DHS chief Jeh Johnson says US has a ‘crisis’ at the southern border (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/obama-era-dhs-chief-jeh-johnson-says-us-has-a-crisis-at-the-southern-border?fbclid=IwAR1ztl5ImmeGuY0jwfxDoHwcOWR8-Y-ztTGElXk-oI6V2eorUKFFsJW4v3s)


Former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson said Saturday that America has a “crisis” at the southern border (https://www.foxnews.com/category/topic/border-wall), and that the number of apprehensions exceed anything he encountered during his time serving under former President Barack Obama.


“By anyone's definition, by any measure, right now we have a crisis at our southern border,” he said on “Cavuto LIVE.” “According to the commissioner of [Customs and Border Protection], there were 4,000 apprehensions in one day alone this past week, and we're on pace for 100,000 apprehensions on our southern border this month.”


“That is by far a greater number than anything I saw on my watch in my three years as Secretary of Homeland Security,” he said.
Johnson’s remarks come after President Trump this week accused Mexico of doing nothing to stop the illegal immigration flow to the U.S. and threatened to close to southern border next week.


The Obama-era DHS secretary was referring to comments by U.S. CBP Commissioner Kevin McAleenan said the border was at its “breaking point” and that there are not enough agents to respond to the crisis.


Last month, more than 76,000 migrants were detained, marking the highest number of apprehensions in 12 years. That figure includes more than 7,000 unaccompanied children. More than 36,000 migrant families have arrived in the El Paso region in fiscal 2019 with about 2,000 at the same time last year, according to CBP data. The influx has prompted new challenges for Border Patrol agents.


Trump declared a national emergency last month after Congress refused to accede to his demand of more than $5 billion in funding for a wall on the border.


Democrats, and some Republicans, have opposed that declaration (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-fails-to-override-trumps-veto-of-measure-to-terminate-national-emergency-on-border) -- which frees up an additional $3.6 billion in funding that can be used on a wall. A bill rebuking that move passed both the House and the Senate, but was vetoed by Trump. An effort to override that veto failed on Tuesday in the House.


The State Department meanwhile said Saturday that it is cutting direct aid to El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala for 2017 and 2018. It did not immediately say why.


Johnson said that he believed there was a bipartisan way to resolve the deadlock between the White House and Congress, and there was a chance for some common ground but Trump shouldn’t try to circumvent Congress.


“There are ways to do this, and you make your case to Congress for why there is a crisis and there is a crisis on our southern border right now and you do it through a conventional reprogramming and you get the resources you need to address the crisis,” he said. “There are answers to this problem, and if we can strip away the politics and the emotion, they can be obtained.”


Fox News’ Brooke Singman and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

VIDEODROME
04-01-2019, 10:12 AM
Could this be considered a foreign policy issue?

How much damage has been done by NAFTA? Many Americans dislike our trade agreements thinking it's to easy for companies to move south of the border, but what also happens when U.S. companies setup shop in Mexico?

I think Big-Agra companies has displaced small farmers in Mexico. I doubt the manufacturing is paying Mexicans a decent wage.

Also in the mix are the ways we've pursued the War on Drugs.

I think it would be more fair to consider people coming here as refugees, somewhat ironically seeking opportunity in the country putting so much economic pressure on their homeland.

Some might seem like aggressive 'Invaders' with a nationalistic attitude with little interest in assimilating because they see America as the invader. They're here to plunder in response to their homeland being plundered.

Anti Federalist
04-01-2019, 10:18 AM
Could this be considered a foreign policy issue?

How much damage has been done by NAFTA? Many Americans dislike our trade agreements thinking it's to easy for companies to move south of the border, but what also happens when U.S. companies setup shop in Mexico?

Quite a bit, actually.

NAFTA was disastrous for middle income and peasant farming in Mexico as it was for us.

Which was the point of course.

Zippyjuan
04-01-2019, 11:40 AM
Yale study finds illegal migrant numbers twice the accepted norm of 11 million (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?526703-Yale-study-finds-illegal-migrant-numbers-twice-the-accepted-norm-of-11-million&highlight=yale)And they are coming in ever larger numbers.

You keep bringing up that study which also says that the number of illegal immigrants has been declining since 2007. The authors said there is no wave of illegal immigrants into the country. The study does not reach the conclusions you want us to believe it does.

Swordsmyth
04-01-2019, 01:48 PM
You keep bringing up that study which also says that the number of illegal immigrants has been declining since 2007. The authors said there is no wave of illegal immigrants into the country. The study does not reach the conclusions you want us to believe it does.
The study is old and it is lying on the side of claiming there are less coming than there are, they had been lying about how many were here but they had to admit there were more than they claimed, there may be far more than they admitted.

Swordsmyth
04-01-2019, 01:50 PM
Could this be considered a foreign policy issue?

How much damage has been done by NAFTA? Many Americans dislike our trade agreements thinking it's to easy for companies to move south of the border, but what also happens when U.S. companies setup shop in Mexico?

I think Big-Agra companies has displaced small farmers in Mexico. I doubt the manufacturing is paying Mexicans a decent wage.

Also in the mix are the ways we've pursued the War on Drugs.

I think it would be more fair to consider people coming here as refugees, somewhat ironically seeking opportunity in the country putting so much economic pressure on their homeland.

Some might seem like aggressive 'Invaders' with a nationalistic attitude with little interest in assimilating because they see America as the invader. They're here to plunder in response to their homeland being plundered.
We should stop doing things that make it worse but we don't have to allow them to invade us in the meantime.

DamianTV
04-01-2019, 02:53 PM
Population Replacement by an incompatible culture that is expected to vote to keep those in power there. Dominoes.

pcosmar
04-01-2019, 05:24 PM
OK, fair enough...what...exactly...be specific.

intervention

pcosmar
04-01-2019, 05:28 PM
Certainly. And a border between churches is just a terrible inconvenience. It goes both ways. Send missionaries to foriegn lands, or import refugees that you can convert. Borders and nations get in the way.

How many "Missionaries" work for the CIA?

pcosmar
04-01-2019, 05:29 PM
History of US Government involvement (intervention) in South America..

Genesis of the term "Banana Republic".

School of the Americas Graduates.

I believe the Term "Blowback" applies as well.

Swordsmyth
04-01-2019, 05:29 PM
How many "Missionaries" work for the CIA?
Are you saying that other countries should be able to keep them out?

Swordsmyth
04-01-2019, 05:30 PM
I believe the Term "Blowback" applies as well.
That isn't a magic word that suddenly requires us to let the invasion happen.

pcosmar
04-01-2019, 05:31 PM
Are you saying that other countries should be able to keep them out?

No,,
I was asking a Serious Question,, for which I know a partial answer.

I was looking for better Numbers,,

Swordsmyth
04-01-2019, 05:32 PM
No,,
I was asking a Serious Question,, for which I know a partial answer.

I was looking for better Numbers,,
They don't have a right to keep the CIA out?

pcosmar
04-01-2019, 05:33 PM
That isn't a magic word that suddenly requires us to let the invasion happen.

NO Asshole

That is the reason it happens.

It has been explained.

Swordsmyth
04-01-2019, 05:33 PM
NO $#@!

That is the reason it happens.

It has been explained.

One reason.
There are others.

pcosmar
04-01-2019, 05:34 PM
They don't have a right to keep the CIA out?

the CIA has no right to exist..

They are a blight,,, and a burden.

Swordsmyth
04-01-2019, 05:37 PM
the CIA has no right to exist..

They are a blight,,, and a burden.
Many things that shouldn't exist do.
Do other countries have a right to keep the CIA out?

devil21
04-01-2019, 05:39 PM
REX 84 is going swimmingly, it seems. Blame brown people and you can get the terrified white people to do anything you want.

Practically this entire thread is a giant violation of the RPF's mission statement.

Swordsmyth
04-01-2019, 05:41 PM
REX 84 is going swimmingly, it seems. Blame brown people and you can get the terrified white people to do anything you want.

Practically this entire thread is a giant violation of the RPF's mission statement.

That would come as news to Dr. Ron.

Swordsmyth
04-01-2019, 05:53 PM
America if we don't stop the "harmless" invaders:


https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP. fWUKH4OH_-R4o8P5scD5XgHaE6%26pid%3DApi&f=1

Anti Federalist
04-01-2019, 06:05 PM
REX 84 is going swimmingly, it seems. Blame brown people and you can get the terrified white people to do anything you want.

Practically this entire thread is a giant violation of the RPF's mission statement.

Horseshit.

I would hold the same position if the invaders were lily white Euro-socialists.

devil21
04-01-2019, 06:07 PM
Keep winnin' those hearts and minds SS.


Horseshit.

I would hold the same position if the invaders were lily white Euro-socialists.

I'm totally sure this thread would exist if...

http://www.welt.de/img/wissenschaft/crop155839555/0559402495-ci16x9-w780/Three-Young-Women.jpg

Anti Federalist
04-01-2019, 06:18 PM
I'm totally sure this thread would exist if...

http://www.welt.de/img/wissenschaft/crop155839555/0559402495-ci16x9-w780/Three-Young-Women.jpg

Why not...?

It is white girl pussy protesters just like that, that are doing the most damage.

Swordsmyth
04-01-2019, 06:19 PM
Keep winnin' those hearts and minds SS.



I'm totally sure this thread would exist if...

http://www.welt.de/img/wissenschaft/crop155839555/0559402495-ci16x9-w780/Three-Young-Women.jpg

It would if I was the only one posting in it.

The racist card is old and dog-eared, it doesn't work anymore.

RJB
04-01-2019, 06:53 PM
Awhile ago, if you were losing a debate the race card trumped all, no pun intended, but get with it. It's 2019. The race card is so 90s. If you like the 1990s, bring up ska and grunge instead.

pcosmar
04-01-2019, 06:54 PM
Many things that shouldn't exist do.
Do other countries have a right to keep the CIA out?
If they can. I would say it would be the responsibility of any governing body to oppose such an Evil presence.

I'll burn any that enters my circle of influence..

last one was sitting at a bar

RJB
04-01-2019, 06:56 PM
If they can. I would say it would be the responsibility of any governing body to oppose such an Evil presence.

I'll burn any that enters my circle of influence..

last on was sitting at a bar

Such as keep that evil presence outside of its borders?

Danke
04-01-2019, 06:58 PM
Keep winnin' those hearts and minds SS.



I'm totally sure this thread would exist if...

http://www.welt.de/img/wissenschaft/crop155839555/0559402495-ci16x9-w780/Three-Young-Women.jpg

I'll take the one in the middle.

Swordsmyth
04-01-2019, 06:59 PM
If they can. I would say it would be the responsibility of any governing body to oppose such an Evil presence.

I'll burn any that enters my circle of influence..

last one was sitting at a bar
So countries do have a right to control who is allowed in their territory?

specsaregood
04-01-2019, 06:59 PM
Awhile ago, if you were losing a debate the race card trumped all, no pun intended, but get with it. It's 2019. The race card is so 90s. If you like the 1990s, bring up ska and grunge instead.

I kinda miss Ska, went to a fun bunch of ska concerts in san diego and had even more fun with some cute ska girls. Never really cared all that much for grunge. The 90s were good to me.

pcosmar
04-01-2019, 07:00 PM
Such as keep that evil presence outside of its borders?

The "law' say they aren't supposed to be in our borders,,, but they do and are.

It would be in any others countries best interest to kill all immediately upon identification. (as they are a horribly evil infestation)

and you know my opinion of mans laws.

pcosmar
04-01-2019, 07:01 PM
So countries do have a right to control who is allowed in their territory?

Actual threats,,, not every xenophobic fantasy.

Swordsmyth
04-01-2019, 07:03 PM
Actual threats,,, not every xenophobic fantasy.
Who gets to determine which is which?

pcosmar
04-01-2019, 07:07 PM
Who gets to determine which is which?

Who determined the creation of the CIA?

I can't wait thing the whole thing implodes. System Wide


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBYb6N794AQ

Swordsmyth
04-01-2019, 07:11 PM
Who determined the creation of the CIA?

I can't wait thing the whole thing implodes. System Wide


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBYb6N794AQ

That isn't an answer to my question.

WHO GETS TO DECIDE WHAT IS AN "ACTUAL THREAT"?


The answer can't be "pcosmar".

pcosmar
04-01-2019, 07:18 PM
The answer can't be "pcosmar".

I decide in my life.

and I do not tolerate Spooks. any more than I would tolerate a Child Molester.. but I am being redundant.

Pauls' Revere
04-01-2019, 07:22 PM
I'll take the one in the middle.

I'll take all three. :)

Swordsmyth
04-01-2019, 07:24 PM
I decide in my life.

and I do not tolerate Spooks. any more than I would tolerate a Child Molester.. but I am being redundant.
Who gets to decide for a country?
You said other countries should label the CIA an "actual threat" and keep them out.
Who gets to decide for our country?

devil21
04-01-2019, 07:30 PM
Why not...?

It is white girl pussy protesters just like that, that are doing the most damage.

You're not really helping fight the left's narrative by making it about immigrants and now women too. In fact, you're reinforcing it.

Btw, it's kind of ironic that your sig quote is hosted by a Snopes website. And you left out a lot of the quote. You should add the entire quote for context.

Swordsmyth
04-01-2019, 07:33 PM
You're not really helping fight the left's narrative by making it about immigrants and now women too. In fact, you're reinforcing it.


LOL

The left is the side denying that women and immigrants are disproportionately part of the problem.

You are spouting leftist propaganda.

Anti Federalist
04-01-2019, 07:38 PM
You're not really helping fight the left's narrative by making it about immigrants and now women too. In fact, you're reinforcing it.

Btw, it's kind of ironic that your sig quote is hosted by a Snopes website. And you left out a lot of the quote. You should add the entire quote for context.

Well, I'll be damned, the fuckers bought "On the Issues".

Let me change that.

Anti Federalist
04-01-2019, 07:49 PM
You're not really helping fight the left's narrative by making it about immigrants and now women too. In fact, you're reinforcing it.

So leftist voting women are not an issue now?


Btw, it's kind of ironic that your sig quote is hosted by a Snopes website. And you left out a lot of the quote. You should add the entire quote for context.

Here's the entire exchange:

MR. RUSSERT: Let me ask you about immigration because that's a big issue here, and there has been a profound change. Back when you ran for president, 1988, libertarian, you said, "As in our country's first 150 years, there shouldn't be any immigration policy at all. We should welcome everyone who wants to come here and work."You've changed your view.

REP. PAUL: And, and during that campaign, I remember I got into trouble with Libertarians because I said there may well be a time when immigration is like an invasion and we have to treat it differently. And I think, in one sense, with the welfare state out of control--see, my approach to immigration is somewhat different than the others. Mine is you deal with it economically. We're in worse shape now because we subsidize immigration. We give food stamps, Social Security, free medical care, free education and amnesty. So you subsidize it, and you have a mess. Our hospitals are being closed. Conditions have changed. And I think that we should have--and, and 9/11 has occurred. Why shouldn't we be looking at people coming in? So there's--this, this means that we should look at immigration differently. It's an economic issue more than anything. If our economy was in good health, I--believe me, I don't think there'd be an immigration problem. We'd be looking for workers and we would be very generous.

MR. RUSSERT: You say you're a strict constructionist of the Constitution, and yet you want to amend the Constitution to say that children born here should not automatically be U.S. citizens.

REP. PAUL: Well, amending the Constitution is constitutional. What's a--what's the contradiction there?

MR. RUSSERT: So in the Constitution as written, you want to amend?

REP. PAUL: Well, that's constitutional, to do it. Besides, it was the 14th Amendment. It wasn't in the original Constitution. And there's a, there's a confusion on interpretation. In the early years, it was never interpreted that way, and it's still confusing because people--individuals are supposed to have birthright citizenship if they're under the jurisdiction of the government. And somebody who illegally comes in this country as a drug dealer, is he under the jurisdiction and their children deserve citizenship? I think it's awfully, awfully confusing, and, and I, I--matter of fact, I have a bill to change that as well as a Constitutional amendment to clarify it.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/22342301/ns/meet_the_press/t/meet-press-transcript-dec/#.XKK-FFVKjcs

devil21
04-01-2019, 07:51 PM
LOL

The left is the side denying that women and immigrants are disproportionately part of the problem.

You are spouting leftist propaganda.

Propaganda? I'm making an observation. The fact is, AF may be falling precisely into a trap that's being laid for him. Let's look at this overall situation from a possible different perspective, shall we? It's a good thing to reassess one's beliefs occasionally to ensure that the short con isn't distracting from a longer con. A sound strategy, yes?

Say, if you're a elite banker globalist and you want to perform population reduction operations in a country of 300 million people, it's pretty difficult, if not impossible, to directly employ enough foot soldiers to eliminate people and employ a slow-kill agenda that outpaces birth rates enough to make difference relatively quickly. What is the next solution then? Especially if you didn't want to be directly blamed for those operations and risk losing your position from a direct revolt against you? We can look back at history and see that fomenting a civil war worked very well not long ago. So, the solution is to repeat history. Arm up the white men, tell them that the enemy of their survival is their neighbors (blacks, hispanics, apparently now even women in general), continually increase the pitch with more and more propaganda from intentionally placed "spokespeople", let the anger build more and more. And then when the time is right, unleash them to perform the eliminations for you, while you proceed to loot everything not nailed down.

But naaa, that couldn't be it. Carry on.

Anti Federalist
04-01-2019, 07:57 PM
So leftist voting women are not an issue now?



Here's the entire exchange:

MR. RUSSERT: Let me ask you about immigration because that's a big issue here, and there has been a profound change. Back when you ran for president, 1988, libertarian, you said, "As in our country's first 150 years, there shouldn't be any immigration policy at all. We should welcome everyone who wants to come here and work."You've changed your view.

REP. PAUL: And, and during that campaign, I remember I got into trouble with Libertarians because I said there may well be a time when immigration is like an invasion and we have to treat it differently. And I think, in one sense, with the welfare state out of control--see, my approach to immigration is somewhat different than the others. Mine is you deal with it economically. We're in worse shape now because we subsidize immigration. We give food stamps, Social Security, free medical care, free education and amnesty. So you subsidize it, and you have a mess. Our hospitals are being closed. Conditions have changed. And I think that we should have--and, and 9/11 has occurred. Why shouldn't we be looking at people coming in? So there's--this, this means that we should look at immigration differently. It's an economic issue more than anything. If our economy was in good health, I--believe me, I don't think there'd be an immigration problem. We'd be looking for workers and we would be very generous.

MR. RUSSERT: You say you're a strict constructionist of the Constitution, and yet you want to amend the Constitution to say that children born here should not automatically be U.S. citizens.

REP. PAUL: Well, amending the Constitution is constitutional. What's a--what's the contradiction there?

MR. RUSSERT: So in the Constitution as written, you want to amend?

REP. PAUL: Well, that's constitutional, to do it. Besides, it was the 14th Amendment. It wasn't in the original Constitution. And there's a, there's a confusion on interpretation. In the early years, it was never interpreted that way, and it's still confusing because people--individuals are supposed to have birthright citizenship if they're under the jurisdiction of the government. And somebody who illegally comes in this country as a drug dealer, is he under the jurisdiction and their children deserve citizenship? I think it's awfully, awfully confusing, and, and I, I--matter of fact, I have a bill to change that as well as a Constitutional amendment to clarify it.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/22342301/ns/meet_the_press/t/meet-press-transcript-dec/#.XKK-FFVKjcs

So, all that being said, I see no inconsistency.

Ron ran on immigration issues that I still support:

1 - Bring the troops home and deploy them on the border to defend the republic and not be the world's cops.

2 - Eliminate welfare and hand out subsidies and "managed" trade deals that encourage illegal migration.

3 - End birthright citizenship by amending/eliminating the 14th Amendment.

He'd be denounced as a foul racist for running on those issues in 2020.

That is what has changed.

Swordsmyth
04-01-2019, 07:59 PM
Propaganda? I'm making an observation. The fact is, AF may be falling precisely into a trap that's being laid for him. Let's look at this overall situation from a possible different perspective, shall we? It's a good thing to reassess one's beliefs occasionally to ensure that the short con isn't distracting from a longer con. A sound strategy, yes?

Say, if you're a elite banker globalist and you want to perform population reduction operations in a country of 300 million people, it's pretty difficult, if not impossible, to directly employ enough foot soldiers to eliminate people and employ a slow-kill agenda that outpaces birth rates enough to make difference relatively quickly. What is the next solution then? Especially if you didn't want to be directly blamed for those operations and risk losing your position from a direct revolt against you? We can look back at history and see that fomenting a civil war worked very well not long ago. So, the solution is to repeat history. Arm up the white men, tell them that the enemy of their survival is their neighbors (blacks, hispanics, apparently now even women in general), continually increase the pitch with more and more propaganda from intentionally placed "spokespeople", let the anger build more and more. And then when the time is right, unleash them to perform the eliminations for you, while you proceed to loot everything not nailed down.

But naaa, that couldn't be it. Carry on.
Or they can flood us with hostile invaders who will vote to take everything we have and then exterminate us while getting useful idiots to insist that we allow them all in and possibly provoke a civil war between the people with the sense to oppose the invasion and the useful idiots.

The leftist voters are just as bad as the people who use them and we must be rid of them one way or another, I would like it to be a peaceful separation but I don't think they will agree to that.

We are headed off a cliff one way or the other because half the country insists on it and the other half can't do anything to stop it as long as the first half insists, the only thing we can do is identify our enemies, limit their reinforcements and prepare to deal with them while always holding out the olive branch of an offer to peacefully separate.

Brian4Liberty
04-01-2019, 08:05 PM
REX 84 is going swimmingly, it seems. Blame brown people and you can get the terrified white people to do anything you want.

Practically this entire thread is a giant violation of the RPF's mission statement.

Do you really want to put yourself in the same category as those who constantly screech “brown people”?

While there may be some Americans who do harbor a prejudice against Central Americans, just as there are some Americans that harbor a favoritism towards those south of the border, there is by no means a correlation based upon views on immigration.

The Hispanic and black people I know who do not want more immigration do not complain about “brown people”, they complain about crowds, traffic, homeless people shitting on the street and living in the bushes, the price and lack of availability of housing, depressed wages, etc.

Since many people are not on the front lines, they may complain about something else, like all of the people leaving California for the reasons stated above, and ruining their State with bleeding heart, counter-productive, self-destructive leftism.

Some are lucky enough to be in a bubble where they don’t feel any effect (yet).

But yes, there are political games being played by many sides on this issue.

devil21
04-01-2019, 08:09 PM
Or they can flood us with hostile invaders who will vote to take everything we have and then exterminate us while getting useful idiots to insist that we allow them all in and possibly provoke a civil war between the people with the sense to oppose the invasion and the useful idiots.

The leftist voters are just as bad as the people who use them and we must be rid of them one way or another, I would like it to be a peaceful separation but I don't think they will agree to that.

We are headed off a cliff one way or the other because half the country insists on it and the other half can't do anything to stop it as long as the first half insists, the only thing we can do is identify our enemies, limit their reinforcements and prepare to deal with them while always holding out the olive branch of an offer to peacefully separate.

The part where your perspective falls very short compared to the alternative perspective I posted is that those you say will do the exterminating aren't the ones buying guns and ammo by the metric ton and aren't anywhere near a large enough force to pull off anything of the sort. On the other hand....

If, instead of treating it as a political issue, you treat it as a war scenario (after all, you are the one calling them "invaders"), which scenario is much more likely to be the outcome?



Do you really want to put yourself in the same category as those who constantly screech “brown people”?

I feel bad for people being scapegoated. I feel even worse for people that I generally like possibly (or likely, if history is any measure) being duped into becoming unpaid mercenaries for globalists that openly admit that population reduction is a major goal.

Anti Federalist
04-01-2019, 08:09 PM
Propaganda? I'm making an observation. The fact is, AF may be falling precisely into a trap that's being laid for him. Let's look at this overall situation from a possible different perspective, shall we? It's a good thing to reassess one's beliefs occasionally to ensure that the short con isn't distracting from a longer con. A sound strategy, yes?

Say, if you're a elite banker globalist and you want to perform population reduction operations in a country of 300 million people, it's pretty difficult, if not impossible, to directly employ enough foot soldiers to eliminate people and employ a slow-kill agenda that outpaces birth rates enough to make difference relatively quickly. What is the next solution then? Especially if you didn't want to be directly blamed for those operations and risk losing your position from a direct revolt against you? We can look back at history and see that fomenting a civil war worked very well not long ago. So, the solution is to repeat history. Arm up the white men, tell them that the enemy of their survival is their neighbors (blacks, hispanics, apparently now even women in general), continually increase the pitch with more and more propaganda from intentionally placed "spokespeople", let the anger build more and more. And then when the time is right, unleash them to perform the eliminations for you, while you proceed to loot everything not nailed down.

But naaa, that couldn't be it. Carry on.

Maybe.

And maybe a cigar is just a cigar sometimes, and human beings act in ways that are not manipulated and controlled and directed at every turn.

Which means they can act in stupid and genocidal ways.

Especially if they have become convinced by the same propaganda organs you claim are manipulating me, that I am the source of all their misery, I have been the one "keeping them down" and that if they could just silence/shackle/kill me and my kind, all their troubles would be over.

It's what fueled just about every genocide and pogrom in history.

I see it being geared up against me and mine, in the home and nation that my family built.

Pardon me for getting bitter, punchy and defensive.

Swordsmyth
04-01-2019, 08:13 PM
The part where your perspective falls very short compared to the alternative perspective I posted is that those you say will do the exterminating aren't the ones buying guns and ammo by the metric ton and aren't anywhere near a large enough force to pull off anything of the sort. On the other hand....

If, instead of treating it as a political issue, you treat it as a war scenario (after all, you are the one calling them "invaders"), which scenario is much more likely to be the outcome?
They will be supplied with what they need when the time comes, they always are.
And in the mean time the government will use them to take everything from us including our guns.


P.S. you really have no idea what or who is being brought across the border, so saying that the invaders don't have weapons and don't know how to use them is nonsense.

Anti Federalist
04-01-2019, 08:17 PM
The part where your perspective falls very short compared to the alternative perspective I posted is that those you say will do the exterminating aren't the ones buying guns and ammo by the metric ton and aren't anywhere near a large enough force to pull off anything of the sort. On the other hand....

Guns and ammo that won't ever be used for defense of life, liberty and property are as worthless as dirt.

That said, "they" aren't?

We all need to step out of echo chambers and bubble buoys from time to time.

One would have thought that the campaigns of 2008 and 2012 would have been proof enough to show just how tiny a minority "we" are.


If, instead of treating it as a political issue, you treat it as a war scenario (after all, you are the one calling them "invaders"), which scenario is much more likely to be the outcome?

It is war, and the militia (organized and unorganized) should have been deployed years ago.

devil21
04-01-2019, 08:19 PM
Oh well, can't say I didn't warn...

Pauls' Revere
04-01-2019, 08:20 PM
Illegal immigration "superhighway" 3/31/19

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/mar/31/us-mexico-border-illegal-immigration-superhighway/

Mexican officials warn of another caravan of 20,000 migrants preparing to shoot north, hoping to take advantage of the lax enforcement in both Mexico and lenient policies in the U.S. About 100,000 immigrants responding to those incentives have been nabbed at the border in March alone.

“The result is an illegal immigration superhighway that’s flowing through Mexico,” one senior Homeland Security Department official told The Washington Times.

By now, the nature of the border problem is clear: Families and children, assisted by drug smuggling cartels, have figured out how to exploit loopholes in federal law to gain a foothold in the U.S. They are coming in larger numbers and poorer health, and Homeland Security says it has reached the breaking point.

Anti Federalist
04-01-2019, 08:21 PM
The Hispanic and black people I know who do not want more immigration do not complain about “brown people”, they complain about crowds, traffic, homeless people shitting on the street and living in the bushes, the price and lack of availability of housing, depressed wages, etc.

Since many people are not on the front lines, they may complain about something else, like all of the people leaving California for the reasons stated above, and ruining their State with bleeding heart, counter-productive, self-destructive leftism.

+rep

It was native black and Latino people that overwhelmingly were looking to leave the San Fran area in those recent polls.

They are the ones first hurt by floods of migrants.

That is one reason why closeted racist leftists promote unbridled immigration.

Swordsmyth
04-01-2019, 08:22 PM
Oh well, can't say I didn't warn...

Same here.

Swordsmyth
04-01-2019, 08:24 PM
Illegal immigration "superhighway" 3/31/19

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/mar/31/us-mexico-border-illegal-immigration-superhighway/

Mexican officials warn of another caravan of 20,000 migrants preparing to shoot north, hoping to take advantage of the lax enforcement in both Mexico and lenient policies in the U.S. About 100,000 immigrants responding to those incentives have been nabbed at the border in March alone.

“The result is an illegal immigration superhighway that’s flowing through Mexico,” one senior Homeland Security Department official told The Washington Times.

By now, the nature of the border problem is clear: Families and children, assisted by drug smuggling cartels, have figured out how to exploit loopholes in federal law to gain a foothold in the U.S. They are coming in larger numbers and poorer health, and Homeland Security says it has reached the breaking point.
The UN plans to bring in more of them than there are Americans.

Brian4Liberty
04-01-2019, 08:54 PM
+rep

It was native black and Latino people that overwhelmingly were looking to leave the San Fran area in those recent polls.

They are the ones first hurt by floods of migrants.

That is one reason why closeted racist leftists promote unbridled immigration.

And I should clarify that white and Asian people have the same complaints about too many people, and I have never heard anyone complain about “brown people” coming here. I have heard plenty of people accuse others of caring about “brown people” though, when most often that is not the issue at all.

Danke
04-01-2019, 09:10 PM
Illegal immigration "superhighway" 3/31/19

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/mar/31/us-mexico-border-illegal-immigration-superhighway/

Mexican officials warn of another caravan of 20,000 migrants preparing to shoot north, hoping to take advantage of the lax enforcement in both Mexico and lenient policies in the U.S. About 100,000 immigrants responding to those incentives have been nabbed at the border in March alone.

“The result is an illegal immigration superhighway that’s flowing through Mexico,” one senior Homeland Security Department official told The Washington Times.

By now, the nature of the border problem is clear: Families and children, assisted by drug smuggling cartels, have figured out how to exploit loopholes in federal law to gain a foothold in the U.S. They are coming in larger numbers and poorer health, and Homeland Security says it has reached the breaking point.


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/AW0ltBjF_Q4/hqdefault.jpg

parocks
04-02-2019, 02:17 AM
It's not stealing if we're forced to take the land for national security reasons because Mexico refuses to secure their borders.

Trump did say that Mexico would pay for the wall. This could be how.

I'd say yes to a war with Mexico. Invade Mexico, tell them that we could take their whole country easily if we wanted to, don't shoot anybody, and tell them what we want, and Mexico should be good with it. And what we want are military bases in Mexico where we can house the migrants that are trying to get in to the US. A DMZ between US in Mexico. We have troops patrolling the DMZ and arresting everyone in the DMZ.

put a factory next to the military base. We don't want these people to become Democrat voters. These aren't bad folks, we just don't want to import them and give them free stuff.

We can withdraw all of our military from the Middle East and put them in North Mexico to accomplish all this.

Cap
04-02-2019, 06:25 AM
I'd say yes to a war with Mexico. Invade Mexico, tell them that we could take their whole country easily if we wanted to, don't shoot anybody, and tell them what we want, and Mexico should be good with it. And what we want are military bases in Mexico where we can house the migrants that are trying to get in to the US. A DMZ between US in Mexico. We have troops patrolling the DMZ and arresting everyone in the DMZ.

put a factory next to the military base. We don't want these people to become Democrat voters. These aren't bad folks, we just don't want to import them and give them free stuff.

We can withdraw all of our military from the Middle East and put them in North Mexico to accomplish all this.Yeah, that's getting with the site mission. Bravo.

PAF
04-02-2019, 06:47 AM
The Hispanic and black people I know who do not want more immigration do not complain about “brown people”, they complain about crowds, traffic, homeless people $#@!ting on the street and living in the bushes, the price and lack of availability of housing, depressed wages, etc.

Since many people are not on the front lines, they may complain about something else, like all of the people leaving California for the reasons stated above, and ruining their State with bleeding heart, counter-productive, self-destructive leftism.

Some are lucky enough to be in a bubble where they don’t feel any effect (yet).

But yes, there are political games being played by many sides on this issue.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiXjiJ5GSoM

PursuePeace
04-02-2019, 09:07 AM
Just came across this and found it highly appropriate for this thread...

https://files.catbox.moe/l7kt5t.jpg

pcosmar
04-02-2019, 09:19 AM
Just came across this and found it highly appropriate for this thread...

https://files.catbox.moe/l7kt5t.jpg

Charity?? Or Freedom from the Attacks we inflict on their homes?

Go where the bombs don't fall..

edit to add,,, Also,, the Dictators we Have Imposed on them have effectively disarmed their populations,, so resistance is minimal.

PAF
04-02-2019, 09:19 AM
Just came across this and found it highly appropriate for this thread...

https://files.catbox.moe/l7kt5t.jpg


The statist plan of action is as follows:

1. We the Fed will build that Wall at cost in both dollars and freedom to "prevent socialism".

2. We the Fed will continue to provide welfare and free handouts as long as you become government owned by way of "documentation". Fear not, the Wall will go up, but Benefits will remain.

3. We the Fed will not permit people to travel or work "undocumented" or negotiate private contract rights between business and employee, but the Fed fully supports working for government mandated wages.

4. We the Fed promise that the Wall will work to ensure 1 through 3. With added documented people paying into our Federal system, we will continue to fund socialism that we are pretending to stop. The side benefit to becoming "documented" is participating in federal elections.


The libertarian response is: The Wall will not work. The Wall will mandate wages, mandate papers please, restrict freedom to travel, and does not lead to lesser contributions in taxes, but in fact more.

PursuePeace
04-02-2019, 10:00 AM
Charity??

Yes.

Brian4Liberty
04-02-2019, 10:13 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiXjiJ5GSoM

The situation (bums, addicts, mentally ill on the streets) is described mostly correctly. Stossell tends to stay simple though in his segments, which is fine. They are short and can’t get into details. The causes are myriad, and the solutions would be complex.

Yes, new development would help to a certain extent with the housing shortage. And there are other parts of the Bay Area where every available space is being redeveloped into large mid-rise condo and apartment complexes. They even tear down large two story apartment complexes and replace them with five story, more dense complexes. Which, by the way, never have enough parking, so you just created a new parking (and traffic) problem.

The point is that these bums, addicts and mentally ill people will never move into any of these new places. The new housing will be occupied by people with jobs. The problem is the incentives that draw these people, lack of mental institutes, and absolute non-enforcement of any laws. As the girl in the video said, they might arrest you for having an open beer, but feel free to shoot up and lay in the middle of sidewalk vomiting on yourself.

Bleeding heart, brainwashed social justice Democrats don’t want any action taken, until the problem shows up at their front door. Then they scream for the Police to do something, and the Police tell them “sorry, our hands are tied”. Things may change as the insanity of leftist politics destroys the quality of life, but then again, many just leave to go infect a new State. Most recent immigrants don’t complain about such things.

TheTexan
04-02-2019, 10:50 AM
I'd say yes to a war with Mexico. Invade Mexico, tell them that we could take their whole country easily if we wanted to, don't shoot anybody, and tell them what we want, and Mexico should be good with it. And what we want are military bases in Mexico where we can house the migrants that are trying to get in to the US. A DMZ between US in Mexico. We have troops patrolling the DMZ and arresting everyone in the DMZ.

put a factory next to the military base. We don't want these people to become Democrat voters. These aren't bad folks, we just don't want to import them and give them free stuff.

We can withdraw all of our military from the Middle East and put them in North Mexico to accomplish all this.

We could think even bigger and take all of Mexico. We would just need to supply the drugs cartels with enough guns and money to stage a coup on Mexico City. If Mexico City falls to drug lords then we could invade and restore order and we wouldn't be invaders at that point we would be heroes.

We could then deport everyone on Mexico who has a criminal history, which is basically everyone on Mexico. To like Guatemala or something.

Just a few thoughts.

Zippyjuan
04-02-2019, 11:33 AM
The study is old and it is lying on the side of claiming there are less coming than there are, they had been lying about how many were here but they had to admit there were more than they claimed, there may be far more than they admitted.

The study is lying but it is telling the truth. You just pick which part you want to believe.

Anti Federalist
04-02-2019, 12:45 PM
2. We the Fed will continue to provide welfare and free handouts as long as you become government owned by way of "documentation". Fear not, the Wall will go up, but Benefits will remain.

Most everybody in that picture supports those handouts.

How do you propose to eliminate those handouts, especially when they start voting?

TheTexan
04-02-2019, 12:58 PM
How do you propose to eliminate those handouts, especially when they start voting?

I hope it never comes to that, but if it does, well, I guess we would just need to vote even harder than we already are.

Anti Federalist
04-02-2019, 01:11 PM
I hope it never comes to that, but if it does, well, I guess we would just need to vote even harder than we already are.

I voted so hard this last time, I hurt myself.

Dr.3D
04-02-2019, 01:17 PM
I voted so hard this last time, I hurt myself.
Rand knows a good hospital where you can get that problem fixed.

Anti Globalist
04-02-2019, 01:33 PM
I hope it never comes to that, but if it does, well, I guess we would just need to vote even harder than we already are.
Vote so hard you end up being sore for a few days.

timosman
04-02-2019, 01:44 PM
I hope it never comes to that, but if it does, well, I guess we would just need to vote even harder than we already are.

Is there any hope? :tears:

LibertyEagle
04-02-2019, 02:12 PM
Who determined the creation of the CIA?

The precursor of the CIA was the OSS.

Swordsmyth
04-02-2019, 02:15 PM
The study is lying but it is telling the truth. You just pick which part you want to believe.

It is lying less than others, that happens a lot in politics.

Swordsmyth
04-02-2019, 02:23 PM
The statist plan of action is as follows:

1. We the Fed will build that Wall at cost in both dollars and freedom to "prevent socialism".

2. We the Fed will continue to provide welfare and free handouts as long as you become government owned by way of "documentation". Fear not, the Wall will go up, but Benefits will remain.

3. We the Fed will not permit people to travel or work "undocumented" or negotiate private contract rights between business and employee, but the Fed fully supports working for government mandated wages.

4. We the Fed promise that the Wall will work to ensure 1 through 3. With added documented people paying into our Federal system, we will continue to fund socialism that we are pretending to stop. The side benefit to becoming "documented" is participating in federal elections.


The libertarian response is: The Wall will not work. The Wall will mandate wages, mandate papers please, restrict freedom to travel, and does not lead to lesser contributions in taxes, but in fact more.
The wall will not mandate wages, it will not mandate papers please, there is no freedom to travel across the border and it will result in lesser contributions in taxes than just allowing the communist invasion will.

The wall is not the best solution but it is better than nothing, it is not a complete solution and we will also need more patrols on the border and reformed immigration laws.


The anarchist plan of just allowing all of the communists to come here and turn us into a communist country will result in everything they accuse the wall/border control of and much worse.

Swordsmyth
04-02-2019, 02:24 PM
Charity?? Or Freedom from the Attacks we inflict on their homes?

Go where the bombs don't fall..

edit to add,,, Also,, the Dictators we Have Imposed on them have effectively disarmed their populations,, so resistance is minimal.

They demand free stuff, any other causes of their invasion are worth dealing with but we would still have a problem with those that come here because we have are wealthy and they want free stuff.

Swordsmyth
04-02-2019, 02:26 PM
I'd say yes to a war with Mexico. Invade Mexico, tell them that we could take their whole country easily if we wanted to, don't shoot anybody, and tell them what we want, and Mexico should be good with it. And what we want are military bases in Mexico where we can house the migrants that are trying to get in to the US. A DMZ between US in Mexico. We have troops patrolling the DMZ and arresting everyone in the DMZ.

put a factory next to the military base. We don't want these people to become Democrat voters. These aren't bad folks, we just don't want to import them and give them free stuff.

We can withdraw all of our military from the Middle East and put them in North Mexico to accomplish all this.

I don't agree with putting any bases in Mexico but if they don't stop the invasion instead of aiding it we may have to take control of the border with the military on one side of the border or the other.

nobody's_hero
04-02-2019, 02:27 PM
Dominoes.

Collapse one country, cause everyone to evacuate that country, and the country they all flee too also collapses, which causes even more people to collapse the next domino country.

Is America the last domino to fall? I really don't want to clean up all those dominos.

nobody's_hero
04-02-2019, 02:33 PM
Charity?? Or Freedom from the Attacks we inflict on their homes?

"We"?

I don't advocate for the bombing of other countries, but that doesn't also make refugees my problem. That's along the lines of thinking reparations will somehow make amends for slavery. I never owned any slaves. I never dropped any bombs. If you feel that you deserve the guilt, post your home address and we'll send 'em your way. You're welcome to "own" it if you want to, but there ain't no "we". Save the guilt tripping.

Swordsmyth
04-02-2019, 03:16 PM
"We"?

I don't advocate for the bombing of other countries, but that doesn't also make refugees my problem. That's along the lines of thinking reparations will somehow make amends for slavery. I never owned any slaves. I never dropped any bombs. If you feel that you deserve the guilt, post your home address and we'll send 'em your way. You're welcome to "own" it if you want to, but there ain't no "we". Save the guilt tripping.
+Rep

Leftarians don't believe in groups unless it serves their purposes to use group guilt.

devil21
04-02-2019, 03:20 PM
The UN plans to bring in more of them than there are Americans.

Assuming USA population figures are accurate (325+ million), please tell me you don't really believe that. The assertion is too ridiculous to bother to break the math down.

pcosmar
04-02-2019, 03:25 PM
"We"?

I don't advocate for the bombing of other countries, but that doesn't also make refugees my problem. That's along the lines of thinking reparations will somehow make amends for slavery. I never owned any slaves. I never dropped any bombs. If you feel that you deserve the guilt, post your home address and we'll send 'em your way. You're welcome to "own" it if you want to, but there ain't no "we". Save the guilt tripping.

"We",, being the United States Corrupted Government.

which we are subject to for better or worse,,, and taxes extorted pay for all this Evil.

This Country was the Direct Cause of the conditions of their lives,,,

and this is where those bombs don't fall..

So Refugees come here to escape what was done to them in their homes.

pcosmar
04-02-2019, 03:26 PM
Is America the last domino to fall? I really don't want to clean up all those dominos.

Looking forward to watching it BURN.

timosman
04-02-2019, 03:27 PM
"We",, being the United States Corrupted Government.

which we are subject to for better or worse,,, and taxes extorted pay for all this Evil.

This Country was the Direct Cause of the conditions of their lives,,,

and this is where those bombs don't fall..

So Refugees come here to escape what was done to them in their homes.

Our rulers are psychopaths. :tears:

pcosmar
04-02-2019, 03:29 PM
Our rulers are psychopaths. :tears:

It's even worse than you think..

a malevolence that is difficult to comprehend.

timosman
04-02-2019, 03:31 PM
It's even worse than you think..

a malevolence that is difficult to comprehend.

It is not difficult but rather dangerous. :D

ATruepatriot
04-02-2019, 03:32 PM
The wall will not mandate wages, it will not mandate papers please, there is no freedom to travel across the border and it will result in lesser contributions in taxes than just allowing the communist invasion will.

The wall is not the best solution but it is better than nothing, it is not a complete solution and we will also need more patrols on the border and reformed immigration laws.


The anarchist plan of just allowing all of the communists to come here and turn us into a communist country will result in everything they accuse the wall/border control of and much worse.

At some point common sense reality needs to come into play. The incentives that attract them here are never going to be cut off as Ron Paul suggests, it has snowballed since the 60s from Cloward-Piven and the stain is set, you will never get it out now. Unless something physical is done right away all those individuals who value what they have earned and sacrificed for with merit will be taken away and divided evenly among the collective masses in one way or another. All the principles and talk in the world is not going to change this very true reality. Time for Plan B.

Unfortunately, supporting open borders also means being willing to give up most of your well earned assets and lifestyle you are now used to, and that of others without their choice. Any other scenario is a pipe dream and an absolute fantasy, we will never get to have our cake and eat it too. Reality dictates the cause and effect of this situation and as much as we would like to believe there is another way... there is not, there is a breaking point and we have now reached it.

As much as I love Ron Paul he is wrong about a wall. The people will never allow a wall to stop them from getting out. There will never be a situation where we will be wanting to get out let alone to Mexico. What is the advantage we want in having free access across the border to Mexico? Is this really something most Americans want to do? Is anyone really foolish enough to believe Mexico will ever be a more free and prosperous county to live in? We are the very last pocket of freedom and there is nowhere else to run to and we need ramparts to defend it or we will indeed lose it all.

Stay free walled in, or be communist without a wall which will come later anyhow. Wall now or wall later. but we WILL get a wall like it or not. I say now while we have a slight chance of remaining a free and independent republic and not after we are a seriously oppressed communist country because we didn't build a wall soon enough. I have 11 Grandchildren who's economic security and freedoms are in serious jeopardy from this mass invasion. There are a whole lot of fantasy pipe dreams and very little factual cause and effect reality in the open border argument. We are in a do it now or lose all freedom situation.

Anti Federalist
04-02-2019, 03:40 PM
Assuming USA population figures are accurate (325+ million), please tell me you don't really believe that. The assertion is too ridiculous to bother to break the math down.

https://cis.org/sites/default/files/2017-10/camarota-pop-f1.png

pcosmar
04-02-2019, 03:42 PM
At some point common sense reality needs to come into play. The incentives that attract them here are never going to be cut off as Ron Paul suggests, it has snowballed since the 60s from Cloward-Piven and the stain is set, you will never get it out now. Unless something physical is done right away all those individuals who value what they have earned and sacrificed for with merit will be taken away and divided evenly among the collective masses in one way or another. All the principles and talk in the world is not going to change this very true reality. Time for Plan B.

Unfortunately, supporting open borders also means being willing to give up most of your well earned assets and lifestyle you are now used to, and that of others without their choice. Any other scenario is a pipe dream and an absolute fantasy, we will never get to have our cake and eat it too. Reality dictates the cause and effect of this situation and as much as we would like to believe there is another way... there is not, there is a breaking point and we have now reached it.

As much as I love Ron Paul he is wrong about a wall. The people will never allow a wall to stop them from getting out. There will never be a situation where we will be wanting to get out let alone to Mexico. What is the advantage we want in having free access across the border to Mexico? Is this really something most Americans want to do? Is anyone really foolish enough to believe Mexico will ever be a more free and prosperous county to live in? We are the very last pocket of freedom and there is nowhere else to run to and we need ramparts to defend it or we will indeed to lose it all.

Stay free walled in, or be communist without a wall which will come later anyhow. Wall now or wall later. but we WILL get a wall like it or not. I say now while we have a slight chance of remaining a free and independent republic and not after we are a seriously oppressed communist country because we didn't build a wall soon enough. I have 11 Grandchildren who's economic security and freedoms are in serious jeopardy from this mass invasion. There are a whole lot of fantasy pipe dreams and very little factual cause and effect reality in the open border argument. We are in a do it now or lose all freedom situation.

Screw the red herrings.. Communism will never exist due to simple Human Nature..

What will exist is Authoritarianism.. And it really does not matter what Flavor.

We have an Authoritarian Oligarchy and a Armed and Violent Police State.

and a bunch of confused and misled children arguing over the rhetoric of the ruling class.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm observing. and trying to stay out of range.

Swordsmyth
04-02-2019, 03:42 PM
Looking forward to watching it BURN.
I'd rather salvage it.

pcosmar
04-02-2019, 03:43 PM
https://cis.org/sites/default/files/2017-10/camarota-pop-f1.png

did they use the Hockey Stick Algorithm?

Looks Like Global Warming.

RJB
04-02-2019, 03:44 PM
Looking forward to watching it BURN.
I am raising a family in America. I would rather not see my home burn down.

Swordsmyth
04-02-2019, 03:46 PM
Assuming USA population figures are accurate (325+ million), please tell me you don't really believe that. The assertion is too ridiculous to bother to break the math down.
I am having trouble finding it right now but there is a UN plan to move 400+ Million 3rd world invaders here.

pcosmar
04-02-2019, 03:47 PM
I am raising a family in America. I would rather not see my home burn down.

I have no home here..

nor do I care for the current Management..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBYb6N794AQ

RJB
04-02-2019, 03:50 PM
Going through life so hateful of your neighbors that you hope they burn and so stoned that you can only post Grateful Dead videos in a political discussion is not a good way to go through life.

I have no home here..

nor do I care for the current Management..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBYb6N794AQ

pcosmar
04-02-2019, 03:57 PM
Going through life so hateful of your neighbors that you hope they burn and so stoned that you can only post Grateful Dead videos in a political discussion is not a good way to go through life.

Apparently you are unfamiliar with the story that song is from.

I have absolutely NO Use for Satan's Governments.. though they be imposed and I am subject to their existence.

For now.

That will End and I look forward to the True King and a New World.. and will watch this corrupted one Burn.

There is nothing here of Value. RJB,,, you should know that.

Anti Federalist
04-02-2019, 03:57 PM
Assuming USA population figures are accurate (325+ million), please tell me you don't really believe that. The assertion is too ridiculous to bother to break the math down.


By Nina Hall December 9, 2018
With migration an increasingly divisive political issue in the United States and Europe, could global governance step in to address the problem? More than 100 countries will meet Dec. 10-11 in Marrakesh, Morocco, to formally adopt the first treaty on migration negotiated under the United Nations.

The Global Compact for Migration is the result of two years of hard negotiations led by Louise Arbour, a former U.N. high commissioner for human rights. At first glance, the compact seems a significant breakthrough in times of tough rhetoric and harsh policies for migrants. The draft text acknowledges the rights of migrants and the need to protect vulnerable migrants. However, the compact will not result in immediate changes in how countries treat migrants.

In December 2017, U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley announced that the U.S. would not participate, stating that “we will decide how best to control our borders and who will be allowed to enter our country.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2018/12/09/is-the-u-n-s-new-migration-compact-a-major-breakthrough/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.14bdda3b76ce

I miss the days when this movement was opposed to global governance, was opposed to the UN and supported Ron Paul's measure to remove us entirely from the UN in the name of national sovereignty.

Anti Federalist
04-02-2019, 03:58 PM
Looking forward to watching it BURN.

I understand your frustration, I feel the same thing at times.

I'm not keen to watch it burn down with my children in it...

pcosmar
04-02-2019, 04:03 PM
I understand your frustration, I feel the same thing at times.

I'm not keen to watch it burn down with my children in it...

Get them out..

The only hope for Liberty is going to be small pockets of folk... regardless of whatever government claims hold.

Trying to roll the snowball back up the hill is pure stupidity.

Anti Federalist
04-02-2019, 04:08 PM
Get them out...

To where?

The most free countries on planet earth have not lost their collective minds, and don't let people just wander in whenever they feel like it.

That said, this is my country, quite literally.

My family has been here since the 17th century.

"Ourselves and our posterity" means me and mine.

Tough to walk away from all that without so much as a peep.

RJB
04-02-2019, 04:09 PM
Apparently you are unfamiliar with the story that song is from FFS, I know the story about of Sampson and Delilah. That is exactly why I responded as I did.


I have absolutely NO Use for Satan's Governments.. though they be imposed and I am subject to their existence.

For now.

That will End and I look forward to the True King and a New World.. and will watch this corrupted one Burn.. Yes this world is imperfect, but your life, my life, my childrens' lives are gifts from God. I won't let bitterness overwhelm my thanksgiving to God for what he has given me.


There is nothing here of Value. RJB,,, you should know that. It is still a gift. I also note that a lot of you open border people have a strong self loathing that is the result of government indoctrination.

pcosmar
04-02-2019, 04:13 PM
To where?



OUT of the system.. prepare them to disengage from what passes as society.

Hopefully secure in their relationship with God,, and you too,,that you can trust Him with them.

Schifference
04-02-2019, 04:15 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhD5WnrLBC8

devil21
04-02-2019, 04:19 PM
I miss the days when this movement was opposed to global governance, was opposed to the UN and supported Ron Paul's measure to remove us entirely from the UN in the name of national sovereignty.

The same could be said about quoting neocons like Nikki Haley as if they're the friend of the average American.



It is still a gift. I also note that a lot of you open border people have a strong self loathing that is the result of government indoctrination.

Opposing walls, opposing "papers please" police state enforcement, etc does not equal being an "open border person". For me, at least, it means being aware of history and how measures like that never end well for the existing populations. NEVER. Dr. Paul knows this as well.

Zippyjuan
04-02-2019, 04:22 PM
I am having trouble finding it right now but there is a UN plan to move 400+ Million 3rd world invaders here.

Because it is fake?

pcosmar
04-02-2019, 04:26 PM
. Yes this world is imperfect, but your life, my life, my childrens' lives are gifts from God.


It has nothing to do with Bitterness.. It has to do with coming and current reality.

and I said nothing of their lives,,, but that I welcome an end to this corruption.

and if they are not already prepared to stand before God,, well they are not my kids and that would be sad.

Satan is preparing to rule from Jerusalem.. and that will be bad wherever you are..
Are you helping him into power???
Are you promoting his Divisions??
Are you supporting his Wars??
Are you turning from the refugees,, and throwing in prisons??

I would like to think otherwise.


The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Not bitterness


An unjust man is detestable to the righteous, and one whose way is upright is detestable to the wicked.

Anti Federalist
04-02-2019, 04:30 PM
https://cis.org/sites/default/files/2017-10/camarota-pop-f1.png

Interesting to note, the numbers fall off precipitously after the Immigration Act of 1924 was signed. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924)

Signed into law by the most Libertarian President the US has seen: Calvin Coolidge. (https://thelibertarianrepublic.com/top-10-libertarian-presidents/10/)

The numbers then start spiking back up in the wake of the Immigration And Nationality Act of 1965. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965)

Passed, based almost solely, on the efforts of one of the most leftist Senators ever in US history: Ted Kennedy. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kennedy)

Signed into law by a leftist crook named of Lyndon Johnson. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_Johnson)

Kennedy and Celler and the rest of the first wave cultural Marxists of the 1960s, when confronted by Birchers and others on the "right", lied right to face of the American people and swore that this bill would NOT "change the face of America".

RJB
04-02-2019, 04:31 PM
Opposing walls, opposing "papers please" police state enforcement, etc does not equal being an "open border person". For me, at least, it means being aware of history and how measures like that never end well for the existing populations. NEVER. Dr. Paul knows this as well.
Unless I missed it, in the thread where it was requested to name open borders societies that thrived, no one could name any. I then tried to make it easier and asked for some societies with weak borders who thrived. Again no one could name any. If you want to talk history, find such a society that both thrived and remained free with weak borders.

donnay
04-02-2019, 04:32 PM
Apparently you are unfamiliar with the story that song is from.

I have absolutely NO Use for Satan's Governments.. though they be imposed and I am subject to their existence.

For now.

That will End and I look forward to the True King and a New World.. and will watch this corrupted one Burn.

There is nothing here of Value. RJB,,, you should know that.


Galatians 5:1 - Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

John 8:36 - If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Isaiah 61:1 - The Spirit of the Lord GOD [is] upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to [them that are] bound;

James 1:25 - But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

John 8:32 - And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

ATruepatriot
04-02-2019, 04:34 PM
I miss the days when this movement was opposed to global governance, was opposed to the UN and supported Ron Paul's measure to remove us entirely from the UN in the name of national sovereignty.

Some of us still see the bigger picture for what it is and have not been fooled.

timosman
04-02-2019, 04:46 PM
https://cis.org/sites/default/files/2017-10/camarota-pop-f1.png

Looks like the correction we took in the 60s with the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965) worked really well.

Swordsmyth
04-02-2019, 04:47 PM
OUT of the system.. prepare them to disengage from what passes as society.

Hopefully secure in their relationship with God,, and you too,,that you can trust Him with them.

That is not a solution, when the barbarians rampage we will be hunted down.

What you suggest is a dereliction of the duty we owe to our families and friends.

Swordsmyth
04-02-2019, 04:49 PM
It has nothing to do with Bitterness.. It has to do with coming and current reality.

and I said nothing of their lives,,, but that I welcome an end to this corruption.

and if they are not already prepared to stand before God,, well they are not my kids and that would be sad.

Satan is preparing to rule from Jerusalem.. and that will be bad wherever you are..
Are you helping him into power???
Are you promoting his Divisions??
Are you supporting his Wars??
Are you turning from the refugees,, and throwing in prisons??

I would like to think otherwise.


Not bitterness

You are helping him burn down that which stands in his way and cheering on his barbarian hordes to kill and burn.

Swordsmyth
04-02-2019, 04:50 PM
Because it is fake?
No.

devil21
04-02-2019, 04:50 PM
Unless I missed it, in the thread where it was requested to name open borders societies that thrived, no one could name any. I then tried to make it easier and asked for some societies with weak borders who thrived. Again no one could name any. If you want to talk history, find such a society that both thrived and remained free with weak borders.

Walled police states don't have any thriving examples either. The fact is, things like walls and police states are necessary preliminary steps to implement totalitarian communist (or fascist) states. If I've learned anything it's that one of the biggest keys to how elites operate is to get people to want (consenting) what their plans call for, instead of forcefully implementing them on people and risking a direct revolt. If they can get someone like AF to actually advocate for the preliminary steps needed to implement a communist society, they're executing the plan brilliantly. Then later when the communist society is STILL implemented, everyone wonders how the hell it happened?

Duality mind tricks require that only two "options" to be presented, while neither option is a good option and ignoring all other options.

Zippyjuan
04-02-2019, 04:51 PM
No.

Maybe it was "April Fools".

Swordsmyth
04-02-2019, 04:51 PM
Opposing walls, opposing "papers please" police state enforcement, etc does not equal being an "open border person". For me, at least, it means being aware of history and how measures like that never end well for the existing populations. NEVER. Dr. Paul knows this as well.
We are not advocating all of that (you open borders types always mix the good measures in with the bad) and it ends better than those times in history when hostile invaders are allowed in unchecked.

Swordsmyth
04-02-2019, 04:52 PM
Maybe it was "April Fools".
No.

timosman
04-02-2019, 04:52 PM
Interesting to note, the numbers fall off precipitously after the Immigration Act of 1924 was signed. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924)

Signed into law by the most Libertarian President the US has seen: Calvin Coolidge. (https://thelibertarianrepublic.com/top-10-libertarian-presidents/10/)

The numbers then start spiking back up in the wake of the Immigration And Nationality Act of 1965. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965)

Passed, based almost solely, on the efforts of one of the most leftist Senators ever in US history: Ted Kennedy. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kennedy)

Signed into law by a leftist crook named of Lyndon Johnson. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_Johnson)

Kennedy and Celler and the rest of the first wave cultural Marxists of the 1960s, when confronted by Birchers and others on the "right", lied right to face of the American people and swore that this bill would NOT "change the face of America".

Maybe just a tip? :confused:

Swordsmyth
04-02-2019, 04:52 PM
Walled police states don't have any thriving examples either. The fact is, things like walls and police states are necessary preliminary steps to implement totalitarian communist states. If I've learned anything it's that one of the biggest keys to how elites operate is to get people to want (consenting) what their plans call for, instead of forcefully implementing them on people and risking a direct revolt. If they can get someone like AF to actually advocate for the preliminary steps needed to implement a communist society, they're executing the plan brilliantly. Then later when the communist society is STILL implemented, everyone wonders how the hell it happened?

Duality mind tricks require that only two "options" to be presented, while neither option is a good option and ignoring all other options.

You are the one using a duality mind trick, we are not advocating for a police state.

Danke
04-02-2019, 04:56 PM
Walled police states don't have any thriving examples either. The fact is, things like walls and police states are necessary preliminary steps to implement totalitarian communist states. If I've learned anything it's that one of the biggest keys to how elites operate is to get people to want (consenting) what their plans call for, instead of forcefully implementing them on people and risking a direct revolt. If they can get someone like AF to actually advocate for the preliminary steps needed to implement a communist society, they're executing the plan brilliantly. Then later when the communist society is STILL implemented, everyone wonders how the hell it happened?

Duality mind tricks require that only two "options" to be presented, while neither option is a good option and ignoring all other options.

Agreed in principle, but your solution(s) I have never seen work in the long run. The mob through THEIR system will overwhelm you, no matter how you dot the i's and cross the t's.

RJB
04-02-2019, 04:57 PM
Walled police states don't have any thriving examples either. The fact is, things like walls and police states are necessary preliminary steps to implement totalitarian communist states. If I've learned anything it's that one of the biggest keys to how elites operate is to get people to want (consenting) what their plans call for, instead of forcefully implementing them on people and risking a direct revolt. If they can get someone like AF to actually advocate for the preliminary steps needed to implement a communist society, they're executing the plan brilliantly.

Duality mind tricks require that only two "options" to be presented, while neither option is a good option and ignoring all other options.

No one on here is calling for a police state. The actual defense of a group of like minded people is one of the reasons people banded together. Getting conquered and over run is part of history.

And yes, I am aware that nation building, preventitive wars, war on drugs are all bs, but the defense of a border is legit. Every nation has that right, including our own