Why Not Give Israel North & South Carolina? Syrian envoy asks US at UN

[timosman]

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2019/03/no_author/why-not-give-israel-north-south-carolina/


March 29, 2019

Syria’s UN ambassador has suggested the US hand “a couple” of its own states over to Israel instead of flouting international law and selling others’ land for favors with the Israeli lobby, like it did with the Golan Heights.

Syria’s UN Ambassador Bashar Jaafari offered a stark rebuke to the US-backed Israeli claim to the occupied Golan Heights at the UN Security Council meeting on Wednesday. Jaafari said the Trump administration does the bidding of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at the UN to curry favor with the powerful Israeli lobby in the US.

In a remark that elicited a chuckle and a head-shake from his Israeli counterpart, Jaafari suggested that Washington bargain away land that is actually its to give.


You can give them North and South Carolina, for example, why not? South Carolina is a great piece of land… So, give Israel a couple of states if this administration really wants to have Israeli support


Trump’s decision to back the Israeli claim to the Golan Heights comes just ahead of the Israeli general elections on April 6 and has been widely considered as an electoral boost for Netanyahu, who is facing charges of fraud, bribery and breach of trust at home.

“Don’t be misguided by thinking that one day this land will be yours due to hypocrisy or due to being a pawn in the electoral game where you bring each other support, so the Israelis can succeed in their elections and the Americans can also get support from Israeli lobbying groups in the US,” Jaafari said. The Golan Heights, seized by Israel during the 1967 Six-Day war and formally annexed in 1981, will ultimately “come back” to Syria, the diplomat said.

The Security Council meeting was called at Syria’s request. Damascus insists that the recognition of the Golan Heights belonging to Israel runs counter to UN resolutions that expressly declare the annexation “null and void.”

Washington’s adversaries and allies alike have lined up to condemn the breach of international law. The Arab League, Turkey, Iran and Russia spoke up against the recognition. Russia’s Duma speaker Vyacheslav Volodin said it was a “highway to war.” At a UNSC meeting on Wednesday, Russian Deputy Envoy to the UN Vladimir Safronkov said that by siding with Israel, Washington hampers the efforts to improve the security situation in the Golan Heights and ease tensions between the Arab world and the Jewish State itself.

“This not only exacerbates the situation in Syria and complicates the establishment of political process but it also creates serious obstacles to normalizing the relations between Israel and the Arab States,” he said, adding that the US followed through with its decision while turning a blind eye to “the opinion and warnings at both international and regional levels.”

[aGameOfThrones]

Blue parts of Cali?

[spudea]

I remember when this forum agreed the UN can eat shit and die. We don't need world government telling us what to do. Israel was shelling Damascus in the Yom Kippur war, could have totally conquered Syria. They should be thankful they still exist.

[juleswin]

I remember when this forum agreed the UN can eat $#@! and die. We don't need world government telling us what to do. Israel was shelling Damascus in the Yom Kippur war, could have totally conquered Syria. They should be thankful they still exist.

Hey spudea, the story is not about the UN, its about Israel stealing land and bullying its neighbours, the speech could have been made by any Syria official in any forum but they just happened to do it at the UN. Talking out about what could have been, Hitler could have also killed all the jews in Europe instead of working on the transfer agreement which would have made it almost impossible for them to establish a sustaining settlement in Israel. I guess they should be thankful to Hitler that he didn't

Isn't it weird how zionists and Isareli supporters are mum when Israel and the US uses the UN to enforce their will on other nations and they seem to always reject the UN when someone in it uses it to come after them.

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/120927074234-benjamin-netanyahu-bomb-un-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg

I will be content once the US stops financing Israeli security, ends all foreign aid and gets away from foreign interventionism. The UN issue will sort itself out after that

[Pauls' Revere]

Hitler could have also killed all the jews in Europe instead of working on the transfer agreement which would have made it almost impossible for them to establish a sustaining settlement in Israel. I guess they should be thankful to Hitler that he didn't

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

I learned something... +rep

[specsaregood]

Why would Israel only want 2 states, when they already control the congress people from all 50?

[bv3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

I learned something... +rep

Do you know about Sykes-Picot? The division of the Middle East between British and French interest?

[juleswin]

Why would Israel only want 2 states, when they already control the congress people from all 50?

They may be in need of extra land and once they occupy those lands, they will slowly drive the native people out of it and build a wall around it. That is why they may need to own the land instead of just the senators and reps from it. Just my 2 cents

[bv3]

Sykes-Picot:https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/images/maps/sykes1.gif

Modern day M.E. https://wikitravel.org/upload/shared//thumb/7/72/Map_of_Middle_East.png/600px-Map_of_Middle_East.png


Seems like it isn't a stretch to say that Iraq and Syria were artificially cleft.

[juleswin]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

I learned something... +rep

I am glad you picked it out of the post and looked it up. I should have put in quotation marks.

[Pauls' Revere]

Do you know about Sykes-Picot? The division of the Middle East between British and French interest?

I do not.

Standby,...

[Pauls' Revere]

Do you know about Sykes-Picot? The division of the Middle East between British and French interest?

+ rep for History.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement

The Sykes–Picot Agreement /ˈsaɪks piˈkoʊ/, officially known as the Asia Minor Agreement, was a secret 1916 agreement between the United Kingdom and France,[1] to which the Russian Empire assented. The agreement defined their mutually agreed spheres of influence and control in West Asia. The agreement was based on the premise that the Triple Entente would succeed in defeating the Ottoman Empire during World War I. The negotiations leading to the agreement occurred between November 1915 and March 1916 [2] and it was signed 16 May 1916.[3] The deal, exposed to the public in Izvestia and Pravda on 23 November 1917 and in the British Guardian on November 26, 1917,[4][5] is still mentioned when considering the region and its present-day conflicts.[6][7]

The agreement allocated to Britain control of areas roughly comprising the coastal strip between the Mediterranean Sea and the River Jordan, Jordan, southern Iraq, and an additional small area that included the ports of Haifa and Acre, to allow access to the Mediterranean.[8] France got control of southeastern Turkey, northern Iraq, Syria and Lebanon.[8] Russia was to get Istanbul, the Turkish Straits and Armenia.[8] The controlling powers were left free to determine state boundaries within their areas.[8] Further negotiation was expected to determine international administration in the "brown area" (an area including Jerusalem, similar to and smaller than Mandate Palestine), the form of which was to be decided upon after consultation with Russia, and subsequently in consultation with the other Allies, and the representatives of Hussein bin Ali, Sharif of Mecca.[8]

The agreement effectively divided the Ottoman Arab provinces outside the Arabian peninsula into areas of British and French control and influence.[9] In the Levant, it was initially used directly as the basis for the 1918 Anglo–French Modus Vivendi which agreed a framework for the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration. More broadly it was to lead, indirectly, to the subsequent partitioning of the Ottoman Empire following Ottoman defeat in 1918.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to bv3 again.

[bv3]

+ rep for History.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement

The Sykes–Picot Agreement /ˈsaɪks piˈkoʊ/, officially known as the Asia Minor Agreement, was a secret 1916 agreement between the United Kingdom and France,[1] to which the Russian Empire assented. The agreement defined their mutually agreed spheres of influence and control in West Asia. The agreement was based on the premise that the Triple Entente would succeed in defeating the Ottoman Empire during World War I. The negotiations leading to the agreement occurred between November 1915 and March 1916 [2] and it was signed 16 May 1916.[3] The deal, exposed to the public in Izvestia and Pravda on 23 November 1917 and in the British Guardian on November 26, 1917,[4][5] is still mentioned when considering the region and its present-day conflicts.[6][7]

The agreement allocated to Britain control of areas roughly comprising the coastal strip between the Mediterranean Sea and the River Jordan, Jordan, southern Iraq, and an additional small area that included the ports of Haifa and Acre, to allow access to the Mediterranean.[8] France got control of southeastern Turkey, northern Iraq, Syria and Lebanon.[8] Russia was to get Istanbul, the Turkish Straits and Armenia.[8] The controlling powers were left free to determine state boundaries within their areas.[8] Further negotiation was expected to determine international administration in the "brown area" (an area including Jerusalem, similar to and smaller than Mandate Palestine), the form of which was to be decided upon after consultation with Russia, and subsequently in consultation with the other Allies, and the representatives of Hussein bin Ali, Sharif of Mecca.[8]

The agreement effectively divided the Ottoman Arab provinces outside the Arabian peninsula into areas of British and French control and influence.[9] In the Levant, it was initially used directly as the basis for the 1918 Anglo–French Modus Vivendi which agreed a framework for the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration. More broadly it was to lead, indirectly, to the subsequent partitioning of the Ottoman Empire following Ottoman defeat in 1918.

Thanks for posting that. Take a look at the maps, too. WWI was the seminal event of ALL the current timelines.

Now how was WWI started? The assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand by Gavrilo Princip, college student. It gets really interesting when you learn more about the plot Gavrilo was a part of, and who designed that plot. Im going to post from a text I have, but I need to find it hahahaha

"From here on we are on haunted grounds. Some of the original controversies about the origins of the crime at Sarajevo have died down as more information became available to historians but there is still enough obscurity about certain important details to sustain quite divergent interpretation. The viewpoint that the assassination was essentially a local plot that spontaneously generated in the minds of young Princip and his fellow conspirators, to which some irresponsible nationalist elements in Belgrade gave rather offhand assistance, cannot be formally disproved. Neither can the contrary hypothesis that the murder of the heir to the Habsburg throne was systematically planned at a high government level in Belgrade, or even in St. Petersburg."


Taylor, Edmond. The Fall of the Dynasties: The Collapse of the Old Order: 1905-1922 . Congregation Press. Kindle Edition.

"Above all, Sarajevo was in its conception and instigation, a typical secret-service crime whose real purpose and meaning was withheld even from the agents who carried it out; Princip and his fellow schoolboy-conspirators were hardly less victimized than their victims. For Apis — operating through one of his trusted lieutenants (a senior Black Hand member named Major Voja Tankosic) — did not merely come to the aid of the Princip group, or arm them or stiffen them; he manipulated them. The boys, whether one looks on them as heroes or delinquents, were bona-fide romantics, inspired, or deluded, by a belated vision of the nineteenth-century national ideal. Apis, though he doubtless shared their ideal, did not share it with them; to him they were not subjects, in the philosophical sense, but objects, mere pawns in the never-ending chess game of conspiracy. Probably their adolescent idealism was less useful to him than the ingenuousness that went with it; they would be too naive to realize exactly how they were being used, and he could hope that their patent amateurishness would disguise the professional planning back of their deed."


Taylor, Edmond. The Fall of the Dynasties: The Collapse of the Old Order: 1905-1922 . Congregation Press. Kindle Edition.

[Pauls' Revere]

It gets really interesting when you learn more about the plot Gavrilo was a part of, and who designed that plot.

Standby,...

[RJB]

They already have New York City.

[Pauls' Revere]

Thanks for posting that. Take a look at the maps, too. WWI was the seminal event of ALL the current timelines.

Now how was WWI started? The assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand by Gavrilo Princip, college student. It gets really interesting when you learn more about the plot Gavrilo was a part of, and who designed that plot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavrilo_Princip

Gavrilo Princip (Serbian Cyrillic: Гаврило Принцип, pronounced [ɡǎʋrilo prǐntsip]; 25 July 1894[1] – 28 April 1918) was a Bosnian Serb member of Young Bosnia, a Yugoslavist organization seeking an end to Austro-Hungarian rule in Bosnia and Herzegovina. He assassinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria and his wife, Sophie, in Sarajevo on 28 June 1914 at the age of 19 years old, initiating a chain of events that would lead to the outbreak of World War I.[2] Princip and his accomplices were arrested and implicated the Serbian nationalist secret society known as the Black Hand, leading Austria-Hungary to issue a démarche to Serbia known as the July Ultimatum.[3]

Princip said the archduke was targeted because "as future Sovereign he would have prevented our union by carrying through certain reforms", an allusion to the archduke's reputed support for structural reforms of the monarchy that would assign more autonomy to the Slavic lands.[4] This was a threat to the Serbian irredentist project.

Princip was a Yugoslav nationalist associated with the movement Mlada Bosna (Young Bosnia) which predominantly consisted of Serbs, but also Bosniaks and Croats.[5] During his trial he stated: "I am a Yugoslav nationalist, aiming for the unification of all Yugoslavs, and I do not care what form of state, but it must be freed from Austria."[6]

Princip died on April 28, 1918, from tuberculosis caused by poor prison conditions that had cost him a limb earlier.

[Pauls' Revere]

Re: The July Ultimatum.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/austria-hungary-issues-ultimatum-to-serbia

According to the terms of the ultimatum delivered on July 23, the Serbian government would have to accept an Austro-Hungarian inquiry into the assassination, notwithstanding its claim that it was already conducting its own internal investigation. Serbia was also to suppress all anti-Austrian propaganda and to take steps to root out and eliminate terrorist organizations within its borders—one such organization, the Black Hand, was believed to have aided and abetted the archduke’s killer, Gavrilo Princip, and his cohorts, providing weapons and safe passage from Belgrade to Sarajevo. The Dual Monarchy demanded an answer to the note within 48 hours—by that time, however, anticipating Serbian defiance, Gieslingen had already packed his bags and prepared to leave the embassy.

While the world waited for Serbia’s response, Germany worked diplomatically to contain the effects of the ultimatum, but none of the other great powers, with reason, were inclined to see Austria-Hungary, with its relatively weak military, as acting alone. By 1914, the battle lines had been drawn in Europe: if Germany stood with Austria-Hungary against Serbia (and by extension, Russia) then Russia’s allies, France and Britain, would be likely to step into the fray as well.

and WW1 started.

[bv3]

Hey Revere, I posted some relevant edits to my post.

In sum, Serbian intelligence directed by a man known as "Apis" may have hatched the entire plot to prevent the Archduke, who was sympathetic to the Serbs, from coming to power and thus curtailing the emerging agitation for a pan-Serb nation. It gets deeper even too, once you learn that Austro-Hungarian intelligence agents may have also been involved. But I'm still looking for that bit, you might find it even before me. I cannot remember the Hapsburg intelligence agent, damnit, I must have brain damage.

Ohhh no. This is kind of a rabbit hole. I have to stress that this source is disputed--but this book straight sent shivers down my back. You can find a lecture on Youtube. S u v o r o v , V i k t o r. Be careful with that one though, even if it resonates with you. The nearly ubiquitous derision it receives is one of its stronger proofs, in my opinion.

This is why it is easy to sympathize with Alex Jones.

[Pauls' Revere]

Hey Revere, I posted some relevant edits to my post.

In sum, Serbian intelligence directed by a man known as "Apis" may have hatched the entire plot to prevent the Archduke, who was sympathetic to the Serbs, from coming to power and thus curtailing the emerging agitation for a pan-Serb nation. It gets deeper even too, once you learn that Austro-Hungarian intelligence agents may have also been involved. But I'm still looking for that bit, you might find it even before me. I cannot remember the Hapsburg intelligence agent, damnit, I must have brain damage.

Re: The Black Hand.

http://gavriloprincip.weebly.com/the-black-hand.html

The Plan
Orders came from the leader of the Black Hand, Draguntin Dimitrijevio, to assassinate Archduke Franz Ferdinand. Three men were choosing to lead the group: Gavrilo Princip, Nedjelko Cabrinovic, and Trifko Grabez. All the men invovled in the assassination were given a revolver, two bombs, and a vile of cyanide. Orders to all men were to kill Ferdinand and then commit suicide; Dimitrijevio didn't want anyone to have the chance to tell the authorities about the Black Hand. The Prime Minister of Serbia, Nikola Pasic, got word of the assassination plot and ordered his men to arrest Princip, Cabrinovic, and Grabez before they had the chance to leave the country. (wonder how he found that bit out since the leader of the Black Hand was silent) His men were too late and the three got into Sarajevo. This is where they met up with the other members of the group: Muhamed Mehmedbasic, Danilo Llic, Vaso Cubrilovic, Cvijetko, Popovic, Misko Jonanovic, Velijko Cubrilovic. It's almost time for the big moment of truce.

Franz Ferdinand and Sopie von Chotkovato arrive in Sarajevo where there is a car waiting to take them to City Hall. The people of Sarajevo crowd the path from the airport to City Hall; just waiting to get a peak at the archduke and his wife. Among the crowd were the members of the Black Hand, waiting to get their shot at Ferdinand. Muhamad Mehmedbasic was the first to catch sight of Ferdinand. He chickens out and lets the car pass on by. Later, he claims that there was police surrounding him and he didn't want to get caught right off the bat. Nedjelko Cabrinovic, one of the main three men, got the next shot at Ferdinand. Unlike Muhamad, he didn't chicken out and he threw his bomb at the slow moving car. Luckily, the driver saw the bomb and sped up to avoid it. Unfortuanately the bomb hit the car behind Ferdinand's and severly injured the passengers, who were rushed to the hospital right away. Ferdinand and Sophie were rushed away at once. Nedjelko swallowed the vile of cyanide he was given after thowing the bomb and jumped into River Miljacka. Well sucks for him, the poison didn't kill him and he was arrested!

Ferdinand, being a fool, says he wants to go see the people in the hospital that were injured in the bomb throwing. Ferdinand's safey gaurd comes up with the safest plan he could; they would avoid the City Centre and go straight to the hospital. Nobody told the driver, and he took the route that went straight through the City Centre. ]It was purely by chance that Gavrilo Princip happened to be standing there [/I]when Ferdinand's car passed by.
As the driver was slowly backing up, Princip took his chance and shot into the car multiple
times. The shots wounded Ferdinand in the neck and Sophie in the torso. As Princip was
about to follow orders and shoot himself, a man standing nearby realized what he was about to
do and flung himself on him and tried to stop him. Police took notice and joined in the struggle.
Princip was then arrested.

Princip and Nedjelko were intterogated; neither of them gave up any information about the Black
Hand. Eventually one of the other members gave up all the names of their men that were in the
crowd when the bomb was thrown. All the men were charged with treason and murder.

Princip avoided the death penalty simply because his birthday couldn't be determined. The law was
that anyone under the age of 20 could not be charged with the death penalty.

[bv3]

Re: The Black Hand.

http://gavriloprincip.weebly.com/the-black-hand.html

The Plan
Orders came from the leader of the Black Hand, Draguntin Dimitrijevio, to assassinate Archduke Franz Ferdinand. Three men were choosing to lead the group: Gavrilo Princip, Nedjelko Cabrinovic, and Trifko Grabez. All the men invovled in the assassination were given a revolver, two bombs, and a vile of cyanide. Orders to all men were to kill Ferdinand and then commit suicide; Dimitrijevio didn't want anyone to have the chance to tell the authorities about the Black Hand. The Prime Minister of Serbia, Nikola Pasic, got word of the assassination plot and ordered his men to arrest Princip, Cabrinovic, and Grabez before they had the chance to leave the country. (wonder how he found that bit out since the leader of the Black Hand was silent) His men were too late and the three got into Sarajevo. This is where they met up with the other members of the group: Muhamed Mehmedbasic, Danilo Llic, Vaso Cubrilovic, Cvijetko, Popovic, Misko Jonanovic, Velijko Cubrilovic. It's almost time for the big moment of truce.

Franz Ferdinand and Sopie von Chotkovato arrive in Sarajevo where there is a car waiting to take them to City Hall. The people of Sarajevo crowd the path from the airport to City Hall; just waiting to get a peak at the archduke and his wife. Among the crowd were the members of the Black Hand, waiting to get their shot at Ferdinand. Muhamad Mehmedbasic was the first to catch sight of Ferdinand. He chickens out and lets the car pass on by. Later, he claims that there was police surrounding him and he didn't want to get caught right off the bat. Nedjelko Cabrinovic, one of the main three men, got the next shot at Ferdinand. Unlike Muhamad, he didn't chicken out and he threw his bomb at the slow moving car. Luckily, the driver saw the bomb and sped up to avoid it. Unfortuanately the bomb hit the car behind Ferdinand's and severly injured the passengers, who were rushed to the hospital right away. Ferdinand and Sophie were rushed away at once. Nedjelko swallowed the vile of cyanide he was given after thowing the bomb and jumped into River Miljacka. Well sucks for him, the poison didn't kill him and he was arrested!

Ferdinand, being a fool, says he wants to go see the people in the hospital that were injured in the bomb throwing. Ferdinand's safey gaurd comes up with the safest plan he could; they would avoid the City Centre and go straight to the hospital. Nobody told the driver, and he took the route that went straight through the City Centre. ]It was purely by chance that Gavrilo Princip happened to be standing there [/I]when Ferdinand's car passed by.
As the driver was slowly backing up, Princip took his chance and shot into the car multiple
times. The shots wounded Ferdinand in the neck and Sophie in the torso. As Princip was
about to follow orders and shoot himself, a man standing nearby realized what he was about to
do and flung himself on him and tried to stop him. Police took notice and joined in the struggle.
Princip was then arrested.

Princip and Nedjelko were intterogated; neither of them gave up any information about the Black
Hand. Eventually one of the other members gave up all the names of their men that were in the
crowd when the bomb was thrown. All the men were charged with treason and murder.

Princip avoided the death penalty simply because his birthday couldn't be determined. The law was
that anyone under the age of 20 could not be charged with the death penalty.

If you have a kindle account I could loan you some books.

[Pauls' Revere]

If you have a kindle account I could loan you some books.

Sorry, I don't. This is fascinating. Please recommend some reading material.

[Pauls' Revere]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Archduke_Franz_Ferdinand

In charge of these Serbian military conspirators was Chief of Serbian Military Intelligence Dragutin Dimitrijević, his right-hand man Major Vojislav Tankosić, and the spy Rade Malobabić. Tankosić armed the assassins with bombs and pistols and trained them. The assassins were given access to the same clandestine network of safe-houses and agents that Malobabić used for the infiltration of weapons and operatives into Austria-Hungary.

The assassins, the key members of the clandestine network, and the key Serbian military conspirators who were still alive were arrested, tried, convicted and punished. Those who were arrested in Bosnia were tried in Sarajevo in October 1914. The other conspirators were arrested and tried before a Serbian court on the French-controlled Salonika Front in 1916–1917 on unrelated false charges; Serbia executed three of the top military conspirators. Much of what is known about the assassinations comes from these two trials and related records.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rade_Malobabi%C4%87

Malobabić was hired to organize the assassination of the Archduke, and perform tasks such as smuggling weapons and providing information to other operatives that were a part of the killing mission.[4] He played a major role in the first assassination attempt on June 28, 1914, which had failed through another operative’s error. He did not play a direct role in the second, successful attempt on June 28, but he was subsequently linked to it and got arrested. In 1915 Malobabić broke after being tortured and accused Apis of plotting the whole plan.[2]

Re: Dragutin Dimitrijević (codename) = Apis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragutin_Dimitrijevi%C4%87

Dragutin Dimitrijević (Serbian Cyrillic: Драгутин Димитријевић; 17 August 1876 – 24 June 1917), known as Apis (Апис), was a Serbian colonel. He was a leading member of a military group that organized the overthrow of the Serbian government in 1903. He personally organized and participated in the coup against King Alexander and his wife Draga Mašin that resulted in their murders.[1] He was also the leader of the Black Hand group responsible for the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand in June 1914. The latter triggered the July Crisis which led to the outbreak of World War I.

Re: Why King Alexander & Queen Masin were assinated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_I_of_Serbia

Apparently to prevent Queen Draga's brother being named heir-presumptive, but in reality to replace Alexander Obrenović with Peter Karađorđević, a conspiracy was organized by a group of Army officers headed by Captain Dragutin Dimitrijević also known as "Apis", and Novak Perisic, a young Greek Orthodox militant who was in the pay of the Russians,[5] as well as the leader of the Black Hand secret society which would assassinate Archduke Franz Ferdinand in 1914. Several politicians were also part of the conspiracy, and allegedly included former Prime Minister, Nikola Pašić.[6] The royal couple's palace was invaded and they hid in a cupboard in the Queen's bedroom. (There is another possibility, used in a Serbian TV history series The End of the Obrenović Dynasty in which the royal couple was hidden in a secret panic room hidden behind the mirror in a common bedroom. The room contained an entrance to a secret passage leading out of the palace, but the entrance was inaccessible due to the placement of the queen's wardrobe over it after the wedding.)

The conspirators searched the palace and eventually discovered the royal couple and murdered them in the early morning of June 11, 1903. King Alexander and Queen Draga were shot and their bodies mutilated and disemboweled and, according to eyewitness accounts, thrown from a second floor window of the palace onto piles of garden manure.[6] The King was only 26 years old at the time of his death. King Alexander and Queen Draga were buried in the crypt of St. Mark's Church, Belgrade.

[bv3]

Sorry, I don't. This is fascinating. Please recommend some reading material.

Kindle accounts are free, there used to be an enormous number of free books too. Classic books.

4th Generation Warfare Handbook , William S. Lind.

The Dark Side of Democracy , James Mann (a comprehensive theory of ethnic cleansing particularly as a democratic tragedy)

Areopagitica , John Milton (I mention this one a lot, provides a brilliant refutation of censorship and support for the freedom of speech. Published in the middle 1600's this one is free)

The History of the Peloponnesian War , Thucydides (Nothing new under the sun, how democracies turn into empires then fall into ruin and ancient insight into international politics, also free easily available online. Topical speeches, too)

War is a Racket , Smedly Butler (The most decorated Marine in history explains how the military is used at the public expense for private gain, Smedly was once asked to lead a fascist coup against the US government. This man was not a liar.)

War and Peace, Leo Tolstoy (The whole book is fantastic, I wish I could read it in Russian...however Tolstoy's opinion on Napoleon is particularly interesting and unique and probably available without the rest of the story)

Plato's Allegory of the Cave, and the Noble Lie


Cat's Cradle , Kurt Vonnegut

But mostly, Propaganda by Jacques Ellul.


https://20committee.com/2014/06/27/28-june-1914-uncovering-the-sarajevo-assassination/

"Austro-Hungarian intelligence was aware of the state of ferment in Bosnia, having arrested several of Apis’s agents in recent years, and knew that terrorism emanating from Belgrade was a possibility, but there was no real “actionable intelligence” to speak of when Franz Ferdinand and his retinue set out for Sarajevo. Besides, the reputation of Habsburg spies was at a low ebb since the exposure in May 1913 of Colonel Alfred Redl (http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/08850600590911981), the most promising intelligence officer of his generation on the powerful General Staff in Vienna, as a traitor who had been selling all the secrets he could get his hands on to Russia (and, it turned out, Italy and France too) for years. In such a climate of mistrust, it seems doubtful that warnings from the intelligencers would have made much difference anyway."

There he is.

[Pauls' Revere]

https://20committee.com/2014/06/27/28-june-1914-uncovering-the-sarajevo-assassination/

"Austro-Hungarian intelligence was aware of the state of ferment in Bosnia, having arrested several of Apis’s agents in recent years, and knew that terrorism emanating from Belgrade was a possibility, but there was no real “actionable intelligence” to speak of when Franz Ferdinand and his retinue set out for Sarajevo. Besides, the reputation of Habsburg spies was at a low ebb since the exposure in May 1913 of Colonel Alfred Redl (http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/08850600590911981), the most promising intelligence officer of his generation on the powerful General Staff in Vienna, as a traitor who had been selling all the secrets he could get his hands on to Russia (and, it turned out, Italy and France too) for years. In such a climate of mistrust, it seems doubtful that warnings from the intelligencers would have made much difference anyway."

There he is.

So, Col. Redl sells out to foreign governments across Europe, this information breeds mistrust between nations. The Russians then pay Novak Perisic who is working with the Serbian Captain Dragutin Dimitrijević also known as "Apis" organizes the group "The Black Hand who later recruits three assassins to kill Archduke Ferdinand. By mere chance the third assassin Gavrilo Princip just happens to be standing at the spot where the Archdukes car drives by because the Archduke wants to make a hospital visit for those wounded in a previous attempt. NOBODY tells the driver to take a different route and thus fate intervenes and the Archduke & Gavrilo are both at the right place at the right time.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/08850600590911981

[Pauls' Revere]

Re: Col. Alfred Redl

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Redl

Alfred Redl (14 March 1864 – 25 May 1913) was an Austrian military officer who rose to head the Evidenzbureau, the counter-intelligence wing of the Austro-Hungarian Army General Staff. One of the leading figures of pre-World War I espionage, Redl's term in office was marked by radical innovations and the use of advanced technology to ensnare foreign spies.

Due to the innovations he introduced, Redl's successor, Major Maximilian Ronge ultimately learned in 1913 that Redl was himself a lavishly paid spy for the intelligence services of the Imperial Russian Army. Soon after his exposure, Redl committed suicide.

Although his motivations remain mysterious, some historians believe that Redl may have been blackmailed by Russian intelligence with evidence of his homosexuality. Other possible reasons may have been greed, career frustrations, or even a narcissistic desire to outsmart his superiors and subordinates.

Although the full extent of his disclosures to Russian intelligence also remain unknown, Col. Redl is believed to have been largely responsible for Austria-Hungary's catastrophic military defeats and devastating combat losses during the First World War and even for the subsequent collapse of the Empire in 1918. For this reason, many historians of the Habsburg Empire, as well as espionage historians such as CIA's Allen Dulles and Soviet General Mikhail Milstein, agree in calling Redl an arch-traitor.[1]

From 1903 to 1913, Redl was Russia's leading spy. Before World War I, he provided the Russians with information of Plan III, the entire Austrian invasion plan for Serbia. The Russians then informed the Serbian military command about Plan III. As a result, when the Austro-Hungarian Army invaded Serbia, the Serbians were well prepared.[5] Redl not only provided many of Austria's military secrets and plans, but he also supplied incorrect estimations of Russian military strength to his own military authorities. Redl has been called one of history's greatest traitors because purportedly his actions were responsible for the deaths of half a million of his countrymen.[6]

Redl is thought to have sold to Russia one of Austria's principal attack plans, along with its order of battle, its mobilization plans (at a time when mobilization was viewed as one the critical keys to victory) and detailed plans of Austrian fortifications soon to be overrun by Russia. He is known beyond question to have sent Austrian agents into Russia and then to have sold them out. He also had Austrian agents within the Russian Imperial Staff, but betrayed them too, to be hanged or to commit suicide. He is also believed to have informed on various Russian officers who contacted Austro-Hungarian intelligence.

[Pauls' Revere]

Re: Col Redl

http://mentalfloss.com/article/50760/world-war-i-centennial-gay-spy-scandal-rocks-vienna

But Redl had more secrets than anyone could have guessed: in an era when homosexuality was a deviant crime punishable with prison time or worse, Redl’s double life was a huge liability that left him vulnerable to blackmail. During a visit to Russia to polish his Russian in 1889, Russian intelligence discovered his secret via a woman Redl employed as his “beard,” then supplied Redl with a series of young lovers to further incriminate him. Beginning in 1902 the Russians threatened to uncover Redl while also offering him huge sums of money for top secret information. The combination of carrot and stick was enough to convince Redl to turn traitor.

As head of counter-intelligence, Redl won recognition for his cutting-edge methods and amazing success rooting out Russian agents: in 1905 he was awarded the Military Service Cross and Military Service Medal, and in 1911 he was awarded a medal signifying the “Expression of Supreme Satisfaction” by Emperor Franz Josef himself. Meanwhile behind closed doors he led a flamboyant, rather bizarre secret life with his lover, a handsome Czech cavalry officer named Stefan Hromadka who became involved with Redl at age 14. In public Redl introduced Hromadka as his “nephew” and showered him with gifts; in private they attended extravagant parties (read: orgies) with other members of Vienna’s underground homosexual subculture.

Denied a chance to interrogate Redl, Ronge was understandably curious to find out as much as he could about his mentor’s career of high treason, and ordered investigators to break into his apartment in Prague. As it was Sunday all the locksmiths in Prague were closed, so the officers waylaid an expert locksmith they happened to know and hustled him into a car, telling him he had a secret, important task – breaking into Redl’s apartment. That’s when the evidence of “deviancy” started to come out: the investigators were stupefied to find the spymaster’s quarters full of pink leather whips, cosmetics, and pornographic photographs, framed in snakeskin, of Redl, Hromadka, and other men (including fellow officers), sometimes dressed in women’s clothing.

Still, Redl’s private life might have gone to the grave with him as well – if only the investigators had picked a different locksmith. As it turned out, their choice, one Hans Wagner, missed an amateur league soccer match as a result of his unexpected tour of duty that Sunday. His team lost the match and the team’s captain, a journalist named Egon Erwin Kisch (above), furiously demanded an explanation for his absence. Wagner told Kisch what he had seen and the latter, remembering the news of Redl’s suicide, soon put two and two together.

The story made Kisch’s career, and probably ended quite a few others: it would be hard to over-state the impact of the scandal, which irreparably damaged public confidence in the army, long viewed as the most functional part of a dysfunctional empire. Indeed, the details of Redl’s personal life are enough to leave a modern observer wondering how he got as far as he did without being detected: even before the revelation of his homosexuality, the extravagant presents Redl purchased for his “nephew” – including a custom Daimler that cost more than his annual salary, purebred horses, diamond rings, and a luxury apartment – probably should have raised suspicions (Hromadka himself, who apparently knew nothing of Redl’s spying, was found guilty of “unnatural prostitution,” dishonorably discharged, and sentenced to three months of hard labor).

The public was right to fear for the empire’s security. The Russians had passed the mobilization plans they bought from Redl on to the Serbs, giving them a preview of the Austro-Hungarian plan of campaign in the Balkans. Consequently the small kingdom’s general staff were able to anticipate their enemy’s moves in 1914 and deliver a humiliating defeat to Austria-Hungary in the opening days of the Great War.

[bv3]

/\ Yah, Like a modern day Alcibiades.

[Danke]

They may be in need of extra land and once they occupy those lands, they will slowly drive the native people out of it and build a wall around it. That is why they may need to own the land instead of just the senators and reps from it. Just my 2 cents

Israelis just need some Lebensraum.

[Origanalist]

I remember when this forum agreed the UN can eat shit and die. We don't need world government telling us what to do. Israel was shelling Damascus in the Yom Kippur war, could have totally conquered Syria. They should be thankful they still exist.

"Objectivity" Lol.

[spudea]

"Objectivity" Lol.

? Lol.

[Pauls' Revere]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Bosnia

Young Bosnia Today:

The political union of the Yugoslavs [..] was my basic idea [..] I am a Yugoslav nationalist, aiming for the unification of all Yugoslavs, and I do not care what form of state, but it must be free from Austria"
-Gavrilo Princip during his trial[8]

Museum of Young Bosnia
The Museum of Young Bosnia was built in the period of SFR Yugoslavia in 1953, at the place where the assassination took place. It commemorates the assassins, popularly known in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia as the "Vidovdan heroes". At the front of the museum was a plaque, inscribed: "From this place, on 28 June 1914, Gavrilo Princip, expressed with his shot the people's revolt against tyranny and their centuries-old struggle for freedom. (Са овога мјеста 28. јуна 1914. године Гаврило Принцип својим пуцњем изрази народни протест против тираније и вјековну тежњу наших народа за слободом.)" In 1992, soldiers of the Army of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina destroyed both the plaque and Princip's footprints. German forces had removed the 1930 plaque in 1941. The museum still exists today, but nowadays documents aspects of life in Bosnia & Herzegovina during Austro-Hungarian rule.