MAGA in trouble ?? 200+ Boeing 737 planes will be grounded

[Itsback]

Today Boeing shares price fell -12% on start after 2 brand new Boeing 737 MAX 8 airplanes have crashed in 5 months killing 350 people. Something unpredictable happened. Mostly 200+ Boeing 737 MAX 8 planes sold worldwide will be grounded/stopped.

If USA's exports fall, US Dollar will fall against other currencies. U.S President speaks for giant American companies like Boeing

More..

China grounds all 30 Boeing 737 MAX 8 planes

https://www.rt.com/business (https://www.rt.com/business/453487-china-grounds-boeing-737-max)

[acptulsa]

Here's a working link to the RT article:

https://www.rt.com/business/453487-china-grounds-boeing-737-max/

Reminds me somewhat of yaw control problems an earlier version of the venerable 737 had.

[oyarde]

Boeing is highly over valued . With a P/E ratio of 22 1/4 , the 52 week low of about 292 per share is about three times what I would be willing to pay for a share It is a chump stock . Moved today from around 402 to 365 and now back to 397 . Was at 422 yesterday I think .

[Zippyjuan]

China has grounded their fleet of 76 planes. They have orders in for 104 more. Ethiopia also grounded theirs- all 34 of them. Indonesia ground eleven. The US has not grounded any.

If the dollar falls, it may help Trump finally reduce the US trade deficit. A strong dollar makes it worse.

[PAF]

Will raising taxes help bail them out, like it did with banks and GM? Can IMF offer a hand?

[Anti Federalist]

Reminds me somewhat of yaw control problems an earlier version of the venerable 737 had.

Linky?

I thought the 737 had been pretty bullet proof since the get go.

[acptulsa]

Linky?

I thought the 737 had been pretty bullet proof since the get go.

The get-go for the 737 was one hell of a long time ago.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_rudder_issues

[Anti Federalist]

The get-go for the 737 was one hell of a long time ago.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_rudder_issues

Oh yeah yeah yeah...I recall that Pittsburgh crash now.

Thanks for the link.

Would not surprise me at all to find out this crash was caused by the same auto-stabilizing computer system that caused that Lion Air crash.

[PAF]

Oh yeah yeah yeah...I recall that Pittsburgh crash now.

Thanks for the link

The memorial isn’t too far from where I am:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/18679370/usair_flight_427_memorial

[Anti Federalist]

The memorial isn’t too far from where I am:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/18679370/usair_flight_427_memorial

Yeah, once Tulsa jogged my memory I recalled that crash and the ensuing investigation.

[PAF]

Yeah, once Tulsa jogged my memory I recalled that crash and the ensuing investigation.

Huh, I don’t remember Tulsa, I’ll have to look that one up.

[Anti Federalist]

Huh, I don’t remember Tulsa, I’ll have to look that one up.

LOL - no acptulsa...the forum member

[PAF]

LOL - no acptulsa...the forum member

LOL here I am searching Tulsa Oklahoma! Well I ran into a few interesting tidbits so not all is lost ;-)

[acptulsa]

Huh, I don’t remember Tulsa, I’ll have to look that one up.

https://media.tenor.com/images/a3e54d6f3cbbedd5d082e745323337cc/tenor.gif

[Chester Copperpot]

If only this article was covered on a reliable newswire like dangerousmother.com then Id spend the time to read it..

[sparebulb]

With Stikki Nikki on the board now, things will be fixed.

Or at least, staged.

[Itsback]

Boeing is highly over valued . With a P/E ratio of 22 1/4 , the 52 week low of about 292 per share is about three times what I would be willing to pay for a share It is a chump stock . Moved today from around 402 to 365 and now back to 397 . Was at 422 yesterday I think .

No company on the stock markets can be worth more than $100 billion. You can buy 250 Airbus A380 with $100 billion and start the biggest airline in the world.

[acptulsa]

No company on the stock markets can be worth more than $100 billion. You can buy 250 Airbus A380 with $100 billion and start the biggest airline in the world.

It can't? Is that a rule?

What happens when the Federal Reserve Note us worth one ten thousandth of a 1913 penny? Will companies have to be split up? Will Starbucks be forced to sell all but one store?

[Zippyjuan]

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4099665-45-100-plus-billion-companies-s-and-p-500

(as of August, 2017):

https://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2017/8/17/saupload_billion0816_thumb1.png

[Itsback]

If only this article was covered on a reliable newswire like dangerousmother.com then Id spend the time to read it..

4 years back, I posted on the internet "I need $2,000 donation for my website". No money till now. But Apple inc. is worth $650 billion on stock markets (gambling, casino, ponzi)

[Itsback]

Singapore suspends operations of all Boeing 737 Max 8 planes after Ethiopian Airlines crash

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore (https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/singapore-to-ground-all-boeing-737-max-8-planes-after-ethiopian-airlines-crash)

[Danke]

Oh yeah yeah yeah...I recall that Pittsburgh crash now.

Thanks for the link.

Would not surprise me at all to find out this crash was caused by the same auto-stabilizing computer system that caused that Lion Air crash.

The rudder hardover is a mechanical failure, no computers.

[Anti Federalist]

The rudder hardover is a mechanical failure, no computers.

Yah, realize that, I was thinking of the auto trim system that caused that Lion Air crash.

Who knows at this point...could have been a handheld SAM for all we know.

[oyarde]

Yah, realize that, I was thinking of the auto trim system that caused that Lion Air crash.

Who knows at this point...could have been a handheld SAM for all we know.

The Mrs asked me about it over morning coffee . I told her " Oh yeah , SAM in Ethiopia " and pulled it off with my poker face so she will be in that camp now no matter what they say .

[Itsback]

The Mrs asked me about it over morning coffee . I told her " Oh yeah , SAM in Ethiopia " and pulled it off with my poker face so she will be in that camp now no matter what they say .

US carriers continue to operate 58 Boeing 737 MAX 8 despite the two recent crashes.

American Airlines has not grounded the 24 jumbo jets in its fleet, saying it would await the investigation into the crash.

Southwest, which operates 34 Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft, said it remains “confident in the safety of our fleet.”

https://www.rt.com/business (https://www.rt.com/business/453591-australia-grounds-boeing-737-max)

American companies are greedy for money. Apple Inc. worth $650 billion :confused:

[acptulsa]

American Airlines has not grounded the 24 jumbo jets...

We were talking about 737s. What are you talking about?


American companies are greedy for money. Apple Inc. worth $650 billion :confused:

You seem pretty obsessed with the stuff yourself.

[Itsback]

If only this article was covered on a reliable newswire like dangerousmother.com then Id spend the time to read it..

http://i63.tinypic.com/2vmyrs6.jpg

[oyarde]

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4099665-45-100-plus-billion-companies-s-and-p-500

(as of August, 2017):

https://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2017/8/17/saupload_billion0816_thumb1.png

I think I have only ever owned maybe a half dozen of those , 3M , Home Depot , P. Morris and some of them a long time ago , Coke, Exxon etc . Mostly it looks like a list of overpriced stuff that will not give you a good return in the future .

[Itsback]

3 years back I was at the cake shop and a woman came there. She told the shop owner "her husband works for Boeing". The shop owner melted on hearing high profile Boeing.

I said "they are idiots"

[acptulsa]

She told the shop owner "her husband works for Boeing".

Whose husband?

[acptulsa]

Europe grounded them. Democrats are calling for them to be grounded. RINOs like Miss Lindsay are leaving it up to the FAA.

Nobody seems interested in what the airlines that own them decide.

[Itsback]

Air India plane hits 6 feet boundary wall during take-off, flies for four hours before landing in Mumbai

https://www.businesstoday.in (https://www.businesstoday.in/sectors/aviation/air-india-express-plane-hits-boundary-wall-during-take-off/story/284945.html)

THE AIRPLANE LANDED SAFELY.

[Swordsmyth]

Pilots Complained About Boeing 737 Max 8 For Months Before Second Deadly Crash (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-12/pilots-complained-about-boeing-737-max-8-months-deadly-crash)

[Itsback]

Boeing 767 crashed in Texas on February 23, 2019

Video: https://www.youtube.com (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shMMcYAyFVE)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shMMcYAyFVE

[timosman]

https://153news.net/watch_video.php?v=94WYXYBGYO32


https://153news.net/files/videos/2019/03/12/1552405061b6715-1080.mp4


2019-03-12

The latest on the Ethiopia Hoax came out today, and it definitely brought a good laugh to my morning. Not only did the "Huge Crater" grow, but the mountains in the background grew (see the comparison of footage at the end of my video). It appears they tried to make the stockpiles of dirt into mountains with trees just on the top of the huge bumps. In all of the prior footage, the largest hills/mountains were miles away and barely noticeable. In today’s footage, they look like they’re right up against the impact zone. It appears like they did some doctoring to the "Crater" footage for today, but it doesn’t negate the fact they dug this hole out for staging this phony crash.

[Itsback]

In 2011, there were 1486 small plane accidents. Source: National Transportation Safety Board


2017 and 2018 have been very bad for aviation/airplane industry. 2011 was better

[Danke]

Air India plane hits 6 feet boundary wall during take-off, flies for four hours before landing in Mumbai

https://www.businesstoday.in (https://www.businesstoday.in/sectors/aviation/air-india-express-plane-hits-boundary-wall-during-take-off/story/284945.html)

THE AIRPLANE LANDED SAFELY.

Looking at the photos, I would think they would have had problems pressurizing that aircraft.

[Itsback]

Looking at the photos, I would think they would have had problems pressurizing that aircraft.

They could not clear a 6 feet wall.

[Itsback]

Chins will buy 300 Airbus planes

•China will buy 290 A320 planes and 10 of the larger A350s in the long-awaited contract

•The A320 is the chief rival to Boeing’s troubled 737 MAX

https://www.scmp.com/news/ (https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3003233/blow-boeing-china-buy-hundreds-airbus-jets-mammoth-us35)

[Itsback]

Whose husband?

Boeing says they ‘own safety,’ vowing to review design process & produce 10 planes less per month

https://www.rt.com/usa (https://www.rt.com/usa/455692-boeing-cuts-737-production)

Mostly her husband is going back to his village

[Itsback]

Wreckage of crashed Japanese F-35 fighter jet found

Wreckage from a Japanese F-35 stealth fighter jet has been found, a day after it disappeared from radar over the Pacific Ocean. The pilot of the plane, however, is still missing, Japanese military officials said.It is not known why the plane, which is less than a year old, lost contact and crashed.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47876128

[AZJoe]

'Jackscrew' Found At Ethiopian Crash Site Confirms Boeing 737 Max Was Set To Dive (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-15/jackscrew-found-ethiopian-crash-site-confirms-boeing-737-max-was-set-dive)

Having seen the satellite-based trajectories of the Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 Max jetliner before its crash, it was clear, as one experienced pilot noted, that "something was extraordinarily wrong. (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-14/something-was-extraordinarily-wrong-doomed-boeing-swung-and-down-hundreds-feet)" ...

https://zh-prod-1cc738ca-7d3b-4a72-b792-20bd8d8fa069.storage.googleapis.com/s3fs-public/styles/inline_image_desktop/public/inline-images/vertical%20speed%20boeing%20737%20max_0.jpg?itok=Z MYD5VAU

[acptulsa]

Fly-by-wire is such a wonderful thing. Who needs direct mechanical connections between the control surfaces and the controls? What a quaint notion that humans should be able to override all systems.

[ATruepatriot]

Fly-by-wire is such a wonderful thing. Who needs direct mechanical connections between the control surfaces and the controls? What a quaint notion that humans should be able to override all systems.

Self driving cars are a bad idea for this same reason.

[Danke]

Fly-by-wire is such a wonderful thing. Who needs direct mechanical connections between the control surfaces and the controls? What a quaint notion that humans should be able to override all systems.

The 737 is one of the few larger aircrafts that can be flow with cables only. It is call "manual reversion."

[Itsback]

The 737 is one of the few larger aircrafts that can be flow with cables only. It is call "manual reversion."

Looks like days for auto-pilots and self-driving cars are over.

[acptulsa]

Looks like days for auto-pilots and self-driving cars are over.

You have anything to bet?

[Itsback]

You have anything to bet?

YES, SHUT DOWN STOCK MARKETS

[timosman]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/05/business/boeing-737-max-warning-light.html


May 5, 2019

When Boeing began delivering its 737 Max to customers in 2017, the company believed that a key cockpit warning light was a standard feature in all of the new jets.

But months after the planes were flying, company engineers realized that the warning light worked only on planes whose customers had bought a different, optional indicator.

In essence, that meant a safety feature that Boeing thought was standard was actually a premium add-on.

Boeing detailed its initial confusion about the warning light in a statement released on Sunday, adding new details to what was already known about the flawed design and introduction of the 737 Max, its best-selling jetliner.

The initial lack of knowledge about the feature’s functionality, along with the delayed disclosure, add to the concern about Boeing’s management of the Max’s design. The revelations add to Boeing’s mounting problems, which include frayed relations with airlines and customers, multiple federal investigations, growing financial costs and the remaining work to get the Max flying again.

The warning light notifies pilots of a disagreement in the sensors that measure which direction the plane is pointed, a potential sign of a malfunction. This light could have provided critical information to the pilots on two flights that crashed shortly after takeoff in recent months.

In both doomed flights — Lion Air Flight 610 and Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 — preliminary investigations suggest that there were problems with these so-called angle of attack sensors early in the flights, activating new anti-stall software that sent the planes into unrecoverable nose-dives.

...

[angelatc]

The 737 is one of the few larger aircrafts that can be flow with cables only. It is call "manual reversion."

What does "with cables only" mean?

[Swordsmyth]

Only after the deadly Indonesian Lion Air crash in October did Boeing come forward about a warning light problem it had been aware of for more than a year before the tragedy, the company admitted Sunday.
Boeing did not immediately disclose to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) or airlines that a warning light connected to an important sensor on the 737 MAX wasn’t working on most of its planes, reported The Seattle Times (https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/long-before-first-737-max-crash-boeing-knew-a-key-sensor-warning-light-wasnt-working-but-told-no-one/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=article_inset_1.1).

The world’s attention is on Chicago-based Boeing after 189 people died in the Lion Air crash (https://dailycaller.com/2018/10/29/lion-air-plane-crash-indonesia/) on Oct. 29, 2018, and 157 people died in the similar Ethiopian Airlines crash on March 10 (https://dailycaller.com/2019/03/12/ethiopian-flight-smoked-before-crash/). The warning light would have turned on prior to both tragic crashes, but it is unlikely it would have given pilots enough time to fully correct the issues and avoid crashing, according to the newspaper.
The malfunction the warning light was designed to point to, a problem in one of the jet’s angle of attack (AOA) sensors, was a part of both crashes. Boeing did not originally reveal the warning only operated properly on planes flown by airlines that had purchased an optional AOA indicator.
Boeing admitted that it had known about the faulty warning light for more than a year following a story by The Wall Street Journal (https://www.wsj.com/articles/boeings-enduring-puzzle-why-certain-safety-features-on-737-max-jets-were-turned-off-11556456400) on April 28. Boeing made the discovery “in 2017, within several months after beginning 737 MAX deliveries” in May 2017, the company said Sunday according to The Seattle Times.
After that, Boeing did an internal review that found “that the absence of the AOA Disagree alert did not adversely impact airplane safety or operation,” according to a Boeing statement. The company came up with a way to make the warning light function in “the next planned display system software update,” but that update never happened because the MAX planes were grounded in March after the Ethiopian crash.

More at: https://truepundit.com/boeing-knew-about-warning-light-problem-a-year-before-fatal-crash-but-kept-info-to-itself/

[Itsback]

High speed trains (300 kmph) will be good for United States of America

China has 25,000 kilometers of high speed train network

Video: https://www.youtube.com (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIRCaupQU9k)

[Itsback]

https://share2.co.uk/f/10165_3823_Spunchai.jpg

[Swordsmyth]

When Boeing transitioned from the 737 NG model to the 737 MAX, designers altered a toggle switch panel that could have prevented both of the deadly crashes over the last year in Ethiopia and Indonesia, killing a combined 346 people, according to an investigation by the Seattle Times (https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-altered-key-switches-in-737-max-cockpit-limiting-ability-to-shut-off-mcas/).
https://zh-prod-1cc738ca-7d3b-4a72-b792-20bd8d8fa069.storage.googleapis.com/s3fs-public/inline-images/lion%20737_1.jpg
On the 737 NG, the right switch was labeled "AUTO PILOT" - and allowed pilots to deactivate the plane's automated stabilizer controls, such as the Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS), suspected to be the culprit in both crashes. The left toggle switch on the NG would deactivate the buttons on the yoke which pilots regularly use to control the horizontal stabilizer.
On the 737 MAX, however, the two switches were altered to perform the same function, according to internal documents reviewed by the Times, so that they would disable all electronic stabilizer controls - including the MCAS and the thumb buttons on the yoke used to control the stabilizer.


https://zh-prod-1cc738ca-7d3b-4a72-b792-20bd8d8fa069.storage.googleapis.com/s3fs-public/inline-images/toggle%20737.jpg
Former Boeing flight-controls engineer Peter Lemme, a harsh critic of the MAX design, first raised questions over the switch alteration on his blog (https://www.satcom.guru/2019/04/stabilizer-trim-loads-and-range.html), and says he doesn't understand why Boeing made the change.

He said if the company had maintained the switch design from the 737 NG, Boeing could have instructed pilots after the Lion Air crash last year to simply flip the “AUTO PILOT” switch to deactivate MCAS and continue flying with the normal trim buttons on the control wheel. He said that would have saved the Ethiopian Airlines plane and the 157 people on board.
“There’s no doubt in my mind that they would have been fine,” Lemme said. -Seattle Times (https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-altered-key-switches-in-737-max-cockpit-limiting-ability-to-shut-off-mcas/)
Boeing told the Times that they had historically called for pilots to flip both switches to disable a problematic or "runaway" stabilizer, so the button change matched that procedure, adding that the two switches "were retained for commonality of the crew interface."


"Boeing strongly disagrees with any speculation or suggestion that pilots should deviate from these long-established and trained safety procedures," the company added.
During the October Lion Air flight, pilots were reportedly unaware of the MCAS system - while the day before (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-03-19/duty-pilot-saved-doomed-lion-air-737-nosedive-day-deadly-crash), an off-duty pilot with knowledge of the stabilizer controls helped pilots disable the system on the same plane. Data from the flight revealed that the repeated commands from the MCAS system sent the flight from Bali to Jakarta plummeting into the sea.

After that crash, Boeing issued a directive calling for pilots to use the typical runaway stabilizer procedure to deal with MCAS in the event of a problem. Then pilots would be able to swivel the tail down manually by physically turning a control wheel that connects to the tail via cables.
But on the Ethiopian Airlines flight, the pilots appear to have recognized the errant MCAS problem and flipped the cutoff switches as described in the checklist. But then it appears that the pilots were unable to move the manual wheel, likely because the forces on the tail made it physically challenging to turn (https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeings-emergency-procedure-for-737-max-may-have-failed-on-ethiopian-flight/). -Seattle Times (https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-altered-key-switches-in-737-max-cockpit-limiting-ability-to-shut-off-mcas/)
After they were able to manually control the stabilizer, the Ethiopian Airlines pilots appear to have flipped the cutoff switches back on, reactivating the MCAS system. Shortly after, it entered a fatal nosedive which killed all 157 people aboard.
"When you’re pulling on the column with 80-100 pounds of force trying to save your life, your troubleshooting techniques are very weak," said aviation consultant Doug Moss. "You need some gut-level instinctive things to do to solve the problem."

A veteran Boeing 737 test pilot said that all Boeing planes have two such cutoff switches, not just the 737. And both he and American Airlines Captain Dennis Tajer, a spokesman for the Allied Pilots Association who flies 737s, said they could think of no existing procedure that called for flipping only one of the switches.
The procedure appears to be designed to prepare for a situation in which the plane’s stabilizer motor is for some reason jammed and moving uncommanded in one direction – a classic “runaway stabilizer” situation. That would require shutting off all power to the motor. -Seattle Times (https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-altered-key-switches-in-737-max-cockpit-limiting-ability-to-shut-off-mcas/)
Notably, the FAA did not notify pilots that the functionality of the switches had been altered, simply noting in its documentation the labeling change "Stab Trim cutout switches panel nomenclature."

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-05-11/boeing-dangerously-altered-mcas-toggle-switches-737-max-deadly-crashes