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johnwk
03-06-2019, 07:03 AM
.

See
CBP Reports Over 76,000 Unauthorized Border Crossings in February (https://www.thedailybeast.com/cbp-reports-over-76000-unauthorized-border-crossings-in-a-month)


March 05, 2019


”More than 76,000 migrants crossed the U.S.-Mexico border without authorization in February, breaking records for the fourth time in five months. Border enforcement authorities warned Tuesday that the border is hitting a breaking point: Government facilities are full and agents are overwhelmed. The numbers from February are more than double than levels from the same period last year. “The system is well beyond capacity, and remains at the breaking point,” Kevin K. McAleenan, commissioner of Customs and Border Protection, told reporters.”

It is absolutely stunning that while our southern border is being invaded by tens of thousands of poverty stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, disease carrying and criminal foreigners from Central America, and American citizens are suffering the devastating social and economic impact of such an invasion, we have Republican members in Congress who pretend there is no invasion and refuse to assist our president in repelling said invasion.

JWK




It was February of 2019 when an ongoing invasion of America’s borders swelled to tens of thousands a month, not a shot was fired to defend the borders of the United States, and America’s domestic enemies, some socialists, communists and anarchists in Congress, pushed forward with their attempt to continue the invasion in hopes of conquering a prosperous and freedom loving people.

PAF
03-06-2019, 07:34 AM
Sounds like stocks and bonds. Down some days, up others.

I'm sure they know about that proposed wall, maybe they figure they'll get in before it's built.

My solution is to End Incentives, which todays anti-freedom/anti-fiscal republicans refuse to mention or tweet.

I'd bet once talk of that wall stops the numbers would go back to declining like it has been for decades.

The side effect would be to protect private/business property owners from government eminent domain, and allow businesses to hire those that legal Americans on Section 8 don't want. I am a firm supporter of Contract Rights; I oppose minimum wage, and taxes which only grows the Fed. Because once "documented" they become eligible for government programs.

Gee, I wish I was president right about now.


Edit: The only "crisis" I see is government getting in the way of EVERYTHING.

johnwk
03-06-2019, 07:45 AM
I'd bet once talk of that wall stops the numbers would go back to declining like it has been for decades.




Did you miss the 12-20 million who invaded our borders during those "decades"? Had our border been protected, as Congress promised 35 years ago in return for amnesty for 2 million illegal entrants, we wouldn't be suffering the devastating social and economic impact of illegal border crossings today.


JWK



Illegal immigration is now costing American citizens over $18 billion a year in healthcare costs alone! Far more than the measly $5.7 billion asked for to build a wall! LINK (https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2018/02/26/how-american-citizens-finance-health-care-for-undocumented-immigrants/#193737f912c4)

PAF
03-06-2019, 07:56 AM
Did you miss the 12-20 million who invaded our borders during those "decades"? Had our border been protected, as Congress promised 35 years ago in return for amnesty for 2 million illegal entrants, we wouldn't be suffering the devastating social and economic impact of illegal border crossings today.

JWK




Did you know that millions of Americans do that too, who are now Ex-Pats all over the world, many of which are considered by "statists" to be "illegal" because they live off the grid? I know of some, and plan to do the same.

There is always an influx of people all over the world, it really looks like a tangled bunch of string.

Oh, and by the way, I do support freedom to travel freely, no papers please. Unless a crime against another person or property has been committed, you have NO business knowing who I am, where I am going, or what is in my pocket. That Natural Right which applies to ALL people is actually outlined in the 4th Amendment.

Do you believe in Freedom, Fiscal Responsibility and Private Contract Rights? Or do you believe people should be "documented" so that they can apply for tax payer benefits down at the government office?

Superfluous Man
03-06-2019, 08:01 AM
”More than 76,000 migrants crossed the U.S.-Mexico border without authorization in February, breaking records for the fourth time in five months. Border enforcement authorities warned Tuesday that the border is hitting a breaking point: Government facilities are full and agents are overwhelmed. The numbers from February are more than double than levels from the same period last year. “The system is well beyond capacity, and remains at the breaking point,” Kevin K. McAleenan, commissioner of Customs and Border Protection, told reporters.”

Those words "without authorization" reveal the source of the problem, which is that we have laws requiring people to get authorization to cross the border, thus requiring government resources to enforce those laws. The bureaucrats tasked with that are overwhelmed by the burden these laws create. If there were no such laws, they would not be overwhelmed trying to enforce them, and we wouldn't need them at all.

We should adopt Ron Paul's proposal of allowing people to cross the border without even having to show passports to anyone. That would instantly solve the problem.

enhanced_deficit
03-06-2019, 08:34 AM
Granted likes of Ann Coulter who called MAGA gov shutdown efforts for $5B Wall funding a 'scam (https://www.inquisitr.com/5216330/ann-coulter-predicts-donald-trump-will-not-finish-current-term-no-second-term-over-wall/)' clearly crossed the line, if there is a genuine emergency, do POTUS/Congress under US Constitution have authority to make a "high energy" push to reroute this $38B money from foreign border emergency (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?522238-US-embassy-in-Jerusalem-opens-Mon-Ivanka-arrives-Bachmann-apologizes-for-Jews-conversion-rem&p=6628865&viewfull=1#post6628865) to America-First domestic emergency?

GOP controlled US Senate’s First Bill, in Midst of Shutdown, to ensure $38B Aid to Israel (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?529979-US-Senate’s-First-Bill-in-Midst-of-Shutdown-to-ensure-38B-Aid-to-Israel-and-no-boycotts&)





Related

https://www.healthguidance.org/hgimages/17589Tired.jpg
(http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?532149-GOP-Adelson-facing-defections-revolts-as-MAGA-makes-a-quot-low-energy-quot-push-on-Wall-funding&)
GOP-Adelson facing defections, revolts as MAGA makes a "low energy" push on Wall funding (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?532149-GOP-Adelson-facing-defections-revolts-as-MAGA-makes-a-quot-low-energy-quot-push-on-Wall-funding&)

juleswin
03-06-2019, 08:36 AM
Did you miss the 12-20 million who invaded our borders during those "decades"? Had our border been protected, as Congress promised 35 years ago in return for amnesty for 2 million illegal entrants, we wouldn't be suffering the devastating social and economic impact of illegal border crossings today.


JWK



Illegal immigration is now costing American citizens over $18 billion a year in healthcare costs alone! Far more than the measly $5.7 billion asked for to build a wall! LINK (https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2018/02/26/how-american-citizens-finance-health-care-for-undocumented-immigrants/#193737f912c4)

It was also an emergency the last 2 years but Trump did nothing until the people voted the democrats in the house. I think its on Trump for missing his opportunity to build the wall.

kahless
03-06-2019, 08:43 AM
.

See
CBP Reports Over 76,000 Unauthorized Border Crossings in February (https://www.thedailybeast.com/cbp-reports-over-76000-unauthorized-border-crossings-in-a-month)


March 05, 2019


”More than 76,000 migrants crossed the U.S.-Mexico border without authorization in February, breaking records for the fourth time in five months. Border enforcement authorities warned Tuesday that the border is hitting a breaking point: Government facilities are full and agents are overwhelmed. The numbers from February are more than double than levels from the same period last year. “The system is well beyond capacity, and remains at the breaking point,” Kevin K. McAleenan, commissioner of Customs and Border Protection, told reporters.”

It is absolutely stunning that while our southern border is being invaded by tens of thousands of poverty stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, disease carrying and criminal foreigners from Central America, and American citizens are suffering the devastating social and economic impact of such an invasion, we have Republican members in Congress who pretend there is no invasion and refuse to assist our president in repelling said invasion.

JWK




It was February of 2019 when an ongoing invasion of America’s borders swelled to tens of thousands a month, not a shot was fired to defend the borders of the United States, and America’s domestic enemies, some socialists, communists and anarchists in Congress, pushed forward with their attempt to continue the invasion in hopes of conquering a prosperous and freedom loving people.

We are going to end up with a system far worse than Socialism and it will be brought to you with help by so called libertarians. The thing is the open border libertarians have to know this since the evidence is over overwhelming with a mountain of data proving it for years. The mainstream libertarians also seem to consistently give aid and comfort to the enemies of individual liberty to score a few virtue signalling points from the far left.

The question is how much of the libertarian movement and their politicians are a complete sham - not who they say they are and how many libertarian politicians know the facts but are just trying to keep the gravy train flowing from the open border billionaires that fund them?

johnwk
03-06-2019, 08:49 AM
It was also an emergency the last 2 years but Trump did nothing until the people voted the democrats in the house. I think its on Trump for missing his opportunity to build the wall.



So now that President Trump is trying to do something, you agree with those trying to stop him? What about our Country being overrun with the poverty stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, disease carrying and criminal populations of other countries, and the devastating social and economic impact it is having on American citizens? There is always an "opportunity" to protect our borders from an ongoing invasion if those holding political power are inclined to consider the general welfare of the United States and her citizens. President Trump is trying to repel this ongoing invasion. Is he wrong for doing so?


JWK




American citizens are sick and tired of being made into tax-slaves to finance a maternity ward for the poverty stricken populations of other countries who invade America’s borders to give birth.

PAF
03-06-2019, 08:55 AM
We are going to end up with a system far worse than Socialism and it will be brought to you with help by so called libertarians. The thing is the open border libertarians have to know this since the evidence is over overwhelming with a mountain of data proving it for years. The mainstream libertarians also seem to consistently give aid and comfort to the enemies of individual liberty to score a few virtue signalling points from the far left.

The question is how much of the libertarian movement and their politicians are a complete sham - not who they say they are and how many libertarian politicians know the facts but are just trying to keep the gravy train flowing from the open border billionaires that fund them?


Hmm. Let me think on this.


Brian4Liberty , it seems that we must BAN anybody to do with Ron Paul and the site mission, for we are the cause and preventing the real solution.

I'll be damned, I never realized that I support keeping gravy trains flowing. Thanks for letting me know!


:sarcasm:

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 08:56 AM
....

My solution is to End Incentives, which todays anti-freedom/anti-fiscal republicans refuse to mention or tweet.

...

Your solution is not even close to 'enough' .

How are you going to 'end' our Natural Incentives ?

Turn us into a 3rd world shthole?

Yea, that would work.


:frog:

PAF
03-06-2019, 09:07 AM
Your solution is not even close to 'enough' .

How are you going to 'end' our Natural Incentives ?

Turn us into a 3rd world shthole?

Yea, that would work.


:frog:


Well golly, let me see if I can shed some light...

Trump, the Almighty, gets a clean pass for passing $1.3T globalist Omnibus.

Trump, the Almighty, gets a clean pass for banning bump stocks.

Trump, the Almighty, gets a clean pass for passing an "emergency spending bill" that funds globalist initiatives.


With all of Trump the Almighty's glory, don't you think he'd get that same clean pass for announcing to the American People that this "CRISIS" requires executive action to at least temporarily cease Incentives???

Or do think ALL Fiscal Conservatives who stand by Property Rights would immediately demand impeachment!?

kahless
03-06-2019, 09:20 AM
Hmm. Let me think on this.


Brian4Liberty , it seems that we must BAN anybody to do with Ron Paul and the site mission, for we are the cause and preventing the real solution.

I'll be damned, I never realized that I support keeping gravy trains flowing. Thanks for letting me know!


:sarcasm:

I said, "how many libertarian politicians". You are a politician receiving donations?

acptulsa
03-06-2019, 09:23 AM
Well golly, let me see if I can shed some light...

Trump, the Almighty, gets a clean pass for passing $1.3T globalist Omnibus.

Trump, the Almighty, gets a clean pass for banning bump stocks.

Trump, the Almighty, gets a clean pass for passing an "emergency spending bill" that funds globalist initiatives.


With all of Trump the Almighty's glory, don't you think he'd get that same clean pass for announcing to the American People that this "CRISIS" requires executive action to at least temporarily cease Incentives???

Or do think ALL Fiscal Conservatives who stand by Property Rights would immediately demand impeachment!?

You forgot the clean pass for putting Saudi Arabia on the road to being a nuclear power.

That wall is the distraction that keeps on distracting.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DvC0_80XgAA8xoW.jpg

PAF
03-06-2019, 09:28 AM
We are going to end up with a system far worse than Socialism and it will be brought to you with help by so called libertarians. The thing is the open border libertarians have to know this since the evidence is over overwhelming with a mountain of data proving it for years. The mainstream libertarians also seem to consistently give aid and comfort to the enemies of individual liberty to score a few virtue signalling points from the far left.

The question is how much of the libertarian movement and their politicians are a complete sham - not who they say they are and how many libertarian politicians know the facts but are just trying to keep the gravy train flowing from the open border billionaires that fund them?




I said, "how many libertarian politicians". You are a politician receiving donations?


You never mentioned "politician" until the last paragraph.

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 09:28 AM
Well golly, let me see if I can shed some light...

Trump, the Almighty, gets a clean pass for passing $1.3T globalist Omnibus.

Trump, the Almighty, gets a clean pass for banning bump stocks.

Trump, the Almighty, gets a clean pass for passing an "emergency spending bill" that funds globalist initiatives.


With all of Trump the Almighty's glory, don't you think he'd get that same clean pass for announcing to the American People that this "CRISIS" requires executive action to at least temporarily cease Incentives???

Or do think ALL Fiscal Conservatives who stand by Property Rights would immediately demand impeachment!?

lol


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Stratovarious http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=6762345#post6762345) Your solution is not even close to 'enough' .

How are you going to 'end' our Natural Incentives ?

Turn us into a 3rd world shthole?

Yea, that would work.


:frog:

kahless
03-06-2019, 01:09 PM
You never mentioned "politician" until the last paragraph.

That is what you responded to and now are trying to play this game in denying it like the open border clowns here always do.


Hmm. Let me think on this.

[MENTION=1874]..., it seems that we must BAN anybody to do with Ron Paul and the site mission, for we are the cause and preventing the real solution.

I'll be damned, I never realized that I support keeping gravy trains flowing. Thanks for letting me know!


:sarcasm:

Also, no where did I say anything about banning people and the site mission. It is you open border clowns that are always talking about banning people. You types have a history here as bad as the far left in trying to censor speech. So there you have two things that are not really libertarian at all.

A proven and continual scam being perpetuated in these forums year after year by those pretending to be libertarian but with ideology that reflects the polices of the authoritarian left.

phill4paul
03-06-2019, 01:13 PM
75k last month alone. The ones that were caught. No worries. Life's good. End entitlements or something.

acptulsa
03-06-2019, 01:17 PM
Also, no where did I say anything about banning people and the site mission. It is you open border clowns that are always talking about banning people. You types have a history here as bad as the far left in trying to censor speech. So there you have two things that are not really libertarian at all.

A proven and continual scam being perpetuated in these forums year after year by those pretending to be libertarian but with ideology that reflects the polices of the authoritarian left.

No, if course you aren't talking about banning libertarians from a libertarian site. But disrupting libertarian speech certainly seems to be why you're here.

kahless
03-06-2019, 01:23 PM
No, if course you aren't talking about banning libertarians from a libertarian site. But disrupting libertarian speech certainly seems to be why you're here.

I have not promoted banning anyone from this site, regardless of their ideology, ever. That is your game.

I have old news for you, open borders or a policy of opposing securing the border from an invasion is not libertarian. In fact failing to secure a nations borders would result in the death of the philosophy where ever it is implemented. Pointing that out is not disrupting libertarian speech, it is defending it. It is you that promote death of the philosophy here and therefore are disrupting my libertarian speech by pointing that fact out.

Zippyjuan
03-06-2019, 01:27 PM
Fox News editorial: https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/forget-about-a-border-wall-trump-and-congress-should-agree-on-these-immigration-policies-that-work


Forget about a border wall – Trump and Congress should agree on these immigration policies that work

The $5 billion President Trump wants to spend on a “big beautiful border wall” is not a wise use of your hard-earned tax dollars.

On top of that, the president was insisting Friday that he was willing to partially shut down the federal government – costing even more tax dollars – to get that $5 billion. During his election campaign, candidate Trump told us repeatedly that Mexico would pay for the wall, but Mexican officials made clear then and now that this will never happen.

Not only are there far better and more necessary ways to boost border security, but the wall won’t win back suburban voters who deserted Republican candidates in the November midterm elections and handed control of the House of Representatives to the Democrats.

Granted, advocating for the wall may garner votes in Republican primaries – but it will lose votes for GOP candidates in general elections. So the wall is not only bad policy – from a Republican point of view, it is bad politics.

To be clear, border security is critical. No serious policymaker is suggesting open borders – letting everyone who wants to come to the U.S. enter our country without limit.

President Trump’s claim that opponents of his wall are calling for open borders and want to allow gangs of rapists, murderers and terrorists to stream across our southern border to attack Americans and flood our communities with dangerous illegal drugs is hype.

The scary images conjured up by the president are designed to create a crisis atmosphere where no crisis exists, so his wall can gain public support and so he can pressure Congress to approve funding for the wall.

But let’s get real: There are already more than 650 miles of barriers on our southern border. Building a wall would not address needs such as: more robust training for the Border Patrol; new infrastructure and additional personnel at ports of entry; physical barriers where they make sense at key locations along the border; and a border policy that strengthens commerce and our nation’s economic competitiveness.

The truth is that far from there being a crisis on our border, unauthorized immigration is actually down 13 percent from its peak in 2007.

Instead of demanding his wall, President Trump should demand that Congress provide the Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Office of Field Operations – which oversees immigration and commerce at the country’s 328 ports of entry – with funds for more staffing.

CBP is short at least 1,100 officers at ports of entry, the Government Accountability Office reported earlier this year.

A wall won’t halt the flow of illegal drugs at ports of entry. Despite what the president tweets, CBP statistics show that 81 percent of hard drugs intercepted along the southwest border between 2012 and 2016 were seized at ports of entry.

Last year, CBP seized 118,021 pounds of cocaine, heroin, meth and fentanyl at ports of entry, compared with 20,000 pounds seized between ports.

In other words: you can build a wall to the sky, but it won’t stop drugs from getting into our communities.

And understaffing at ports of entry is not only a security problem. It is also an economic one.

CBP estimated in 2014 that every additional individual field officer at a port of entry would result in annual benefits of $2 million to America’s gross domestic product.

The added flow of commerce for each additional field officers would yield $640,000 saved in opportunity costs and create 33 new jobs.

Intelligent border security could be the foundation for a sensible compromise that President Trump could forge with congressional Republicans and Democrats to advance America’s security and economic interests – and perhaps even unite us.

Such a deal also could encourage economic growth by making it easier for talented innovators and graduates with advanced degrees to come to the U.S. and stay here.

As the global battle for talent intensifies, we need legal ways for more entrepreneurs from around the world to set up shop here in America.

We also need paths for more individuals such as skilled farmworkers and construction laborers to fill positions that will boost economic growth. Both political parties want a strong economy, and a sound legal immigration process is core to that pursuit.

Men, women and children don’t flee their homelands unless their situation is untenable. As part of an immigration deal, the U.S. should increase its investment in the security and economic development of Central American countries to discourage people from fleeing in the first place.

At the same time, drawing on our compassion and respect for human dignity – not to mention U.S. and international law – we should welcome refugees and hear the claims of asylum seekers. American leadership should include moral leadership.

Finally, undocumented men and women who are working hard and contributing to America – starting with Dreamers brought here as children and people with temporary protected status – should have a way to earn full legalized status and eventual citizenship. It’s the right thing to do morally and politically, and it’s in the best interest of our economy and our security.

Instead of using a battle over wall funding to continue to polarize us, President Trump and Congress should start the era of divided government that begins in January by coming together and solving major challenges.

The president just scored a major victory by working with Republicans and Democrats to pass criminal justice reform in the First Step Act. With some foresight and deal-making, he could do the same on immigration.

kahless
03-06-2019, 01:30 PM
Fox News editorial: https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/forget-about-a-border-wall-trump-and-congress-should-agree-on-these-immigration-policies-that-work

No one believes that pile of garbage. The average voters are extremely pissed about border. If elections were held today the libertarian wing would be completely routed over this including Rand whether right or wrong on Presidential powers. Yet is perceived by the voters that they are still running around using cuck language and virtue signaling one another like it is years ago.

acptulsa
03-06-2019, 01:35 PM
I have not promoted banning anyone from this site, regardless of their ideology, ever. That is your game.

I have old news for you, open borders or a policy of opposing securing the border from an invasion is not libertarian. In fact failing to secure a nations borders would result in the death of the philosophy where ever it is implemented. Pointing that out is not disrupting libertarian speech, it is defending it. It is you that promote death of the philosophy here and therefore are disrupting my libertarian speech by pointing that fact out.


No one believes that pile of garbage. The average voters are extremely pissed about border. If elections were held today the libertarian wing would be completely routed over this including Rand whether right or wrong on Presidential powers. Yet is perceived by the voters that they are still running around using cuck language and virtue signaling one another like it is years ago.

Either you're the only libertarian here, or the voters will defeat us libertarians because they all agree with you instead.

Make up your mind. You can't have it both ways.

If you wanted to be honest, you'd admit neither is true. If you wanted to be honest.

Zippyjuan
03-06-2019, 01:35 PM
No one believes that pile of garbage. The average voters are extremely pissed about border. If elections were held today the libertarian wing would be completely routed over this including Rand whether right or wrong on Presidential powers. Yet they are still running around using cuck language and virtue signaling one another like it is years ago.

Average REPUBLICAN voters, maybe. The average voter, no. Fear is selling. At least to the target audience. Governments love to use fear to gain more powers. And people like you want to give it to them.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/246455/solid-majority-opposes-new-construction-border-wall.aspx


Solid Majority Still Opposes New Construction on Border Wall

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Sixty percent of Americans oppose major new construction of walls along the U.S.-Mexico border -- the goal behind President Donald Trump's budget showdown with Democratic leaders that led to a record 35-day partial shutdown of the federal government.

STORY HIGHLIGHTS
60% oppose significant new construction on border walls
57% opposed it in June, as the issue heated up ahead of midterm elections
81% support a path to citizenship for immigrants in the U.S. illegally


Perhaps as a result of the heightened political attention given to the issue of immigration, the percentage saying they feel strongly one way or another about expanding the walls has increased since last June's poll -- from 58% to 65%. More of that increase has come in strong opposition (five points) than in strong support (two points).

Nineteen percent say that the border is the most important issue for them. (all voters). 35% say government/ poor leadership is the biggest issue.



https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/mar/6/trump-fails-win-support-wall-poll/


Trump fails to win support for border wall, new Quinnipiac poll finds


President Trump has failed to convince Americans of the need for his border wall emergency declaration, according to a new poll Wednesday that found they oppose his move by two-to-one.

Asked specifically about the need for a wall, the country is skeptical, with 55 percent opposed, the Quinnipiac University Poll found.

Then asked about the president’s emergency move, which siphons money from the Pentagon to build more wall without new congressional approval, a staggering 66 percent give it a thumbs-down.

“‘We didn’t want it in the first place and we certainly don’t want it built by emergency executive order,’ say wall-weary voters in big numbers,” said Tim Malloy, the poll’s assistant director.

There is a curious gender gap in views about the need for the wall. Men are slightly in favor, 49 percent to 47 percent. But women are overwhelmingly opposed, 62 percent to 34 percent.


More at links.

kahless
03-06-2019, 01:42 PM
Average REPUBLICAN voters, maybe. The average voter, no. Fear is selling. At least to the target audience.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/mar/6/trump-fails-win-support-wall-poll/

More at links.

I agree in bold to be specific. The same base of voters that the libertarian wing of the Republican party needs to win elections.

Superfluous Man
03-06-2019, 01:44 PM
No one believes that pile of garbage. The average voters are extremely pissed about border. If elections were held today the libertarian wing would be completely routed over this including Rand whether right or wrong on Presidential powers. Yet is perceived by the voters that they are still running around using cuck language and virtue signaling one another like it is years ago.

They why did Democrats do better than Republicans in the election that just happened?

acptulsa
03-06-2019, 01:45 PM
I agree in bold to be specific. The same base of voters that the libertarian wing of the Republican party needs to win elections.

What the libertarian wing of the GOP needs is to not be screwed at the convention so we can prove we can win a general election.

Kissing the asses of xenophobes is unlikely to help.


They why did Democrats do better than Republicans in the election that just happened?

Are you asking questions the Klingon can't answer? Prepare to be accused of censorship.

Isn't shutting someone the hell up always considered censorship?

Zippyjuan
03-06-2019, 01:47 PM
I agree in bold to be specific. The same base of voters that the libertarian wing of the Republican party needs to win elections.

Ron Paul opposes Trump's wall. Rand Paul opposes Trump's bid to grab more power in violation of the Constitution.

CCTelander
03-06-2019, 01:47 PM
They why did Democrats do better than Republicans in the election that just happened?


Now just quit with the reason and logic, man! It soooo gets in the way of fear mongering propaganda.

CaptUSA
03-06-2019, 01:48 PM
Governments love to use fear to gain more powers. And people like you want to give it to them.

Yes, they do. Worked for Obamacare....

juleswin
03-06-2019, 02:06 PM
lol


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Stratovarious http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=6762345#post6762345) Your solution is not even close to 'enough' .

How are you going to 'end' our Natural Incentives ?

Turn us into a 3rd world shthole?

Yea, that would work.


:frog:

Saudi Arabia is a place where loads of people travel to for work, it is a socialist paradise for natives and foreigners get 0 benefits. Remove all the welfare benefits in this country and foreigners would still want to come here to work. And by people, I am talking about third world people.

I read all the time that ending welfare would stop the flow of illegals. Good luck with that. People will always migrate to the more prosperous region in the world.

acptulsa
03-06-2019, 02:11 PM
socialist paradise

Now there's an oxymoron.

I'm pretty sure not every Saudi figures they live in paradise.

jmdrake
03-06-2019, 02:14 PM
It was also an emergency the last 2 years but Trump did nothing until the people voted the democrats in the house. I think its on Trump for missing his opportunity to build the wall.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to juleswin again.

brushfire
03-06-2019, 02:15 PM
At least republicans were able to repeal obamacare... :toady:

juleswin
03-06-2019, 02:18 PM
Now there's an oxymoron.

I'm pretty sure not every Saudi figures they live in paradise.

I dunno what to tell you, they have the policies people like Bernie are proposing for the US as in they have govt provided free education, healthcare, housing, food, jobs etc etc and low taxes to boot. Yes, it is also a paradise in more ways than one. Remember, I did not say its a perfect society.

How about this, most of the Saudis I hung out with wouldn't trade places with u

jmdrake
03-06-2019, 02:19 PM
.

See
CBP Reports Over 76,000 Unauthorized Border Crossings in February (https://www.thedailybeast.com/cbp-reports-over-76000-unauthorized-border-crossings-in-a-month)


March 05, 2019


”More than 76,000 migrants crossed the U.S.-Mexico border without authorization in February, breaking records for the fourth time in five months. Border enforcement authorities warned Tuesday that the border is hitting a breaking point: Government facilities are full and agents are overwhelmed. The numbers from February are more than double than levels from the same period last year. “The system is well beyond capacity, and remains at the breaking point,” Kevin K. McAleenan, commissioner of Customs and Border Protection, told reporters.”

It is absolutely stunning that while our southern border is being invaded by tens of thousands of poverty stricken, poorly educated, low skilled, disease carrying and criminal foreigners from Central America, and American citizens are suffering the devastating social and economic impact of such an invasion, we have Republican members in Congress who pretend there is no invasion and refuse to assist our president in repelling said invasion.

JWK




It was February of 2019 when an ongoing invasion of America’s borders swelled to tens of thousands a month, not a shot was fired to defend the borders of the United States, and America’s domestic enemies, some socialists, communists and anarchists in Congress, pushed forward with their attempt to continue the invasion in hopes of conquering a prosperous and freedom loving people.

And so Trump tries to "fix" the problem by further destabilizing Venezuela causing an even greater surge of displaced Central American people. Oh the irony.

CCTelander
03-06-2019, 02:22 PM
Yes, they do. Worked for Obamacare....


Sadly, it works all too well even on good, well-meaning, otherwise reasonable people who you'd have thought knew better than to allow it to work.

PAF
03-06-2019, 02:24 PM
And so Trump tries to "fix" the problem by further destabilizing Venezuela causing an even greater surge of displaced Central American people. Oh the irony.

THAT is exactly the plan, as TPTB rake more in dollars and control, while we get to pay for it all.

Short mental retention people have.

Zippyjuan
03-06-2019, 02:26 PM
Saudi Arabia is a place where loads of people travel to for work, it is a socialist paradise for natives and foreigners get 0 benefits. Remove all the welfare benefits in this country and foreigners would still want to come here to work. And by people, I am talking about third world people.

I read all the time that ending welfare would stop the flow of illegals. Good luck with that. People will always migrate to the more prosperous region in the world.

The countries they leave already have welfare programs.

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 03:08 PM
...

I read all the time that ending welfare would stop the flow of illegals. Good luck with that. People will always migrate to the more prosperous region in the world.

I agree, ending welfare won't stop or even touch our 'Natural Incentives' , I've never heard an American
gasp; ''OMG they're going to let me immigrate to Africa or even Australia, Britain etc,'', for that matter.


There is no 'cutting' our natural incentives, that's why PAF and everyone else will decline to answer the question.

Slave Mentality
03-06-2019, 03:40 PM
At least republicans were able to repeal obamacare... :toady:


Lock her up!

PAF
03-06-2019, 03:59 PM
I agree, ending welfare won't stop or even touch our 'Natural Incentives' , I've never heard an American
gasp; ''OMG they're going to let me immigrate to Africa or even Australia, Britain etc,'', for that matter.


There is no 'cutting' our natural incentives, that's why PAF and everyone else will decline to answer the question.


Strat, "end or cutting natural incentives"... I can not answer because I do not know what you mean by that.

Superfluous Man
03-06-2019, 04:01 PM
Strat, "end or cutting natural incentives"... I can not answer because I do not know what you mean by that.

He means that it's not enough to let people immigrate here and not go on welfare, he wants to make sure they don't immigrate here at all, and he's afraid that even without welfare some people would still want to do that. He wants to know how you would take away all the other incentives, aside from government freebies, that might draw them here.

Also, on a side note, he also wants you to know that he's not at all against immigration in general, but only against illegal immigration.

acptulsa
03-06-2019, 04:06 PM
Strat, "end or cutting natural incentives"... I can not answer because I do not know what you mean by that.

Isn't that the best kind of argument--made with nebulous terms he can redefine in an emergency?

I also noticed he predicted you wouldn't answer " the question" in a post which contained no questions.

I guess all those tricks make him right. I have to guess, because I don't know what he said, or if he said anything at all.

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 04:12 PM
He means that it's not enough to let people immigrate here and not go on welfare, he wants to make sure they don't immigrate here at all, and he's afraid that even without welfare some people would still want to do that. He wants to know how you would take away all the other incentives, aside from government freebies, that might draw them here.

Also, on a side note, he also wants you to know that he's not at all against immigration in general, but only against illegal immigration.


Personal attacks and lies, great platform sm......

Libel again.

PAF
03-06-2019, 04:13 PM
He means that it's not enough to let people immigrate here and not go on welfare, he wants to make sure they don't immigrate here at all, and he's afraid that even without welfare some people would still want to do that. He wants to know how you would take away all the other incentives, aside from government freebies, that might draw them here.

Also, on a side note, he also wants you to know that he's not at all against immigration in general, but only against illegal immigration.


What if I told him that my natural incentive would be that I would be willing trade with somebody. For example, I retire (ex-pat to Mexico) and in return have an able-bodied foreigner take my place here to work. Sort of what exchange students do, but actually productive :-)


Stratovarious , would you be in favor of that? I wouldn't want my natural tendencies to be infringed upon!

axiomata
03-06-2019, 04:16 PM
Strat, "end or cutting natural incentives"... I can not answer because I do not know what you mean by that.
He doesn't want to turn America into a complete hellhole thereby naturally deincentivizing others from wishing to improve their lots in life by coming here. But he doesn't want others coming here so he's hoping a partial hellhole-- wall taxes, eminent domain, and unconstitutional executive action will keep them out.

Superfluous Man
03-06-2019, 04:17 PM
What if I told him that my natural incentive would be that I would be willing trade with somebody.

That would only prove his point that you can't get rid of natural incentives like that, and we'd still end up with immigrants wanting to come here, which is unacceptable.

PAF
03-06-2019, 04:18 PM
Isn't that the best kind of argument--made with nebulous terms he can redefine in an emergency?

I also noticed he predicted you wouldn't answer " the question" in a post which contained no questions.

I guess all those tricks make him right. I have to guess, because I don't know what he said, or if he said anything at all.


He's stacking, Super just got nailed with libel, perhaps you and I are next :-O

Superfluous Man
03-06-2019, 04:18 PM
He doesn't want to turn America into a complete hellhole thereby naturally deincentivizing others from wishing to improve their lots in life by coming here. But he doesn't want others coming here so he's hoping a partial hellhole-- wall taxes, eminent domain, and unconstitutional executive action will keep them out.

But if we opted not to dissuade them from coming here by making it a hellhole first, then they would come here and, as he sees it, their presence would turn the place into a hellhole, thus eliminating the natural incentives that draw them here. It would be self-regulating that way.

PAF
03-06-2019, 04:19 PM
He doesn't want to turn America into a complete hellhole thereby naturally deincentivizing others from wishing to improve their lots in life by coming here. But he doesn't want others coming here so he's hoping a partial hellhole-- wall taxes, eminent domain, and unconstitutional executive action will keep them out.


He's in favor of forced vaccinations, here and abroad?

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 04:22 PM
Strat, "end or cutting natural incentives"... I can not answer because I do not know what you mean by that.

We've had this conversation before PAF, as you can see , below is probably at least
the second time I explained this to you;

From earlier;
''I , personally (redundant I realize) came to the realization that cutting incentives is
only part of the issue , another much larger part is the fact that we have way too many
inherent NATURAL-INCENTIVES enticing illegals to come here.
I also will add the fact that the freebie gifts are not going away anytime soon, we have
a crisis , we can't keep out terrorists, diseased, felons, gang bangers, you name it,
without better border security and a wall is going to be part of that security.''

Great economy compared to MEXICO, much less beheadings and murders from drug cartel,
licenses, voting rights, people already here to hide them.
Terrorists can't wait to attack us, emergency rooms accept anyone, anchor babies, daca ,
amnesty, beautiful women, personal rights.
Bill of Rights , Constitution .

Tell me again PAF, how we are going to eliminate 'natural incentives' .


What country would you rather be living in , and why aren't you there?

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 04:24 PM
He doesn't want to turn America into a complete hellhole thereby naturally deincentivizing others from wishing to improve their lots in life by coming here. But he doesn't want others coming here so he's hoping a partial hellhole-- wall taxes, eminent domain, and unconstitutional executive action will keep them out.

Excellent , more libel. :facepalm:

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 04:27 PM
Gotta love the NANNY STATE, SELECTIVE ENFORCEMENT OF SO called tos, Bravo, same
as any forum with that uses censorship.

Superfluous Man
03-06-2019, 04:30 PM
Notice how in post #52 Strat articulated (if we can call it that) the same position that I attributed to him in the post where he claims I libeled him.

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 04:30 PM
What if I told him that my natural incentive would be that I would be willing trade with somebody. For example, I retire (ex-pat to Mexico) and in return have an able-bodied foreigner take my place here to work. Sort of what exchange students do, but actually productive :-)


@Stratovarious (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=61147) , would you be in favor of that? I wouldn't want my natural tendencies to be infringed upon!




This is your answer?

lmao

PAF
03-06-2019, 04:31 PM
We've had this conversation before PAF, as you can see , below is probably at least
the second time I explained this to you;

From earlier;
''I , personally (redundant I realize) came to the realization that cutting incentives is
only part of the issue , another much larger part is the fact that we have way too many
inherent NATURAL-INCENTIVES enticing illegals to come here.
I also will add the fact that the freebie gifts are not going away anytime soon, we have
a crisis , we can't keep out terrorists, diseased, felons, gang bangers, you name it,
without better border security and a wall is going to be part of that security.''

Great economy compared to MEXICO, much less beheadings and murders from drug cartel,
licenses, voting rights, people already here to hide them.
Terrorists can't wait to attack us, emergency rooms accept anyone, anchor babies, daca ,
amnesty, beautiful women, personal rights.
Bill of Rights , Constitution .

Tell me again PAF, how we are going to eliminate 'natural incentives' .


What country would you rather be living in , and why aren't you there?


I can answer every question by answering the last:

Because this corrupt government does not "allow" me to leave... lest I pay them 30% instead 10%, but only after turning 55, and only after filling out a 72T, and only after promising not to work, after that. And then after all that, I will have to travel to predetermined designated areas in order to find an exit point. And then show my papers, and then I may freely pass Go. Same in reverse.


See why folks like you have to put up with the likes of me? Because this stupid government forces me on you! :upsidedown:

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 04:32 PM
Notice how in post #52 Strat articulated (if we can call it that) the same position that I attributed to him in the post where he claims I libeled him.

Notice how you're making no sense whatsoever , we are talking about illegals , what is your topic?

acptulsa
03-06-2019, 04:33 PM
Notice how in post #52 Strat articulated (if we can call it that) the same position that I attributed to him in the post where he claims I libeled him.

But he didn't say it was libel.

He said it was libel.

There's a difference. I think.

johnwk
03-06-2019, 04:38 PM
Ron Paul opposes Trump's wall. Rand Paul opposes Trump's bid to grab more power in violation of the Constitution.

Grab more power? Rand Paul doesn't know what he is talking about. The President is already authorized by Congress to reassign certain funds during a declared emergency.


see: 10 U.S. Code 2808 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/2808). and 33 U.S. Code 2293 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/33/2293)




JWK

There is no surer way to weaken, subdue, demoralize and then conquer a prosperous and freedom loving people than by allowing and encouraging the poverty stricken, poorly educated, low-skilled, criminal and diseased populations of other countries to invade that country, and make the country’s existing citizens tax-slaves to support the economic needs of such invaders.

CCTelander
03-06-2019, 04:38 PM
Notice how in post #52 Strat articulated (if we can call it that) the same position that I attributed to him in the post where he claims I libeled him.


Yes I noticed that. You're telling lies by making truthful statements? How does that logic work?

acptulsa
03-06-2019, 04:40 PM
Yes I noticed that. You're telling lies by making truthful statements? How does that logic work?

SM is just seriously talented.

Seriously talented.

CCTelander
03-06-2019, 04:43 PM
SM is just seriously talented.

Seriously talented.


That's some SERIOUS talent.

My head hurts.

PAF
03-06-2019, 04:44 PM
And of course following up from behind is "Mini-Me". I can't tell if johnwk is Swordsmyth, a twin, two guys working the same cubical on different shifts... but it sure does read an identical play book.

Madison320
03-06-2019, 04:49 PM
lol



How are you going to 'end' our Natural Incentives ?



Here's what I would do:

1. End welfare.

2. Legalize drugs.

3. Eliminate all the government costs associated with hiring a legal employee. If you do that most employers would freely choose to hire US citizens.

4. Eliminate government schools.

OR

Ban welfare recipients from voting. That'll make 1-4 happen automatically.

PAF
03-06-2019, 04:51 PM
Here's what I would do:

1. End welfare.

2. Legalize drugs.

3. Eliminate all the government costs associated with hiring a legal employee. If you do that most employers would freely choose to hire US citizens.

4. Eliminate government schools.

OR

Ban welfare recipients from voting. That'll make 1-4 happen automatically.


All that, but you forgot one - Build that Wall. With a gigantic dome over the entire country!

Zippyjuan
03-06-2019, 05:26 PM
Grab more power? Rand Paul doesn't know what he is talking about. The President is already authorized by Congress to reassign certain funds during a declared emergency.


see: 10 U.S. Code 2808 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/2808). and 33 U.S. Code 2293 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/33/2293)




JWK

There is no surer way to weaken, subdue, demoralize and then conquer a prosperous and freedom loving people than by allowing and encouraging the poverty stricken, poorly educated, low-skilled, criminal and diseased populations of other countries to invade that country, and make the country’s existing citizens tax-slaves to support the economic needs of such invaders.



According to the US Constitution, only Congress has the power to allocate money. Trump does not like the way Congress allocated it so he wants that power for himself.



In the event of a declaration of war or the declaration by the President of a national emergency in accordance with the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.) that requires use of the armed forces, the Secretary of Defense, without regard to any other provision of law, may undertake military construction projects, and may authorize the Secretaries of the military departments to undertake military construction projects, not otherwise authorized by law that are necessary to support such use of the armed forces. Such projects may be undertaken only within the total amount of funds that have been appropriated for military construction, including funds appropriated for family housing, that have not been obligated.

Is the military the only group which can build the wall? Does the situation require the military to build it? Obviously not since 650 miles have been built without the military. Act does not apply.

Trump himself has said the border is "tight" meaning there is not a military crisis.

"I didn't have to do it. I just wanted it to happen faster". "The border is tight!".

CCTelander
03-06-2019, 05:28 PM
All that, but you forgot one - Build that Wall. With a gigantic dome over the entire country!


BUILD THAT DOME! BUILD THAT DOME!

axiomata
03-06-2019, 05:58 PM
BUILD THAT DOME! BUILD THAT DOME!

You'll have to. A wall will raise the price of an effective coyote. Eventually the curve will intersect with a remote controlled single person drone. BUILD THE DOME. As tunneling gets cheaper, we will need a sphere.

Zippyjuan
03-06-2019, 06:00 PM
You'll have to. A wall will raise the price of an effective coyote. Eventually the curve will intersect with a remote controlled single person drone. BUILD THE DOME. As tunneling gets cheaper, we will need a sphere.

Half those not legally in the country entered legally in the first place. Even a sphere will not drive the numbers down to zero. You can spend an infinite amount of dollars and still not get 100%. Best just build a sphere around yourself if you want to avoid them so you cannot come in contact with any other humans.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 06:02 PM
Here's what I would do:

1. End welfare.

2. Legalize drugs.

3. Eliminate all the government costs associated with hiring a legal employee. If you do that most employers would freely choose to hire US citizens.

4. Eliminate government schools.

OR

Ban welfare recipients from voting. That'll make 1-4 happen automatically.
Not only does that list fail to eliminate the natural incentives but we can't do any of that while they are allowed to come here in limitless numbers and vote Demoncrat.

CaptUSA
03-06-2019, 06:05 PM
What kind of damned central planner does it take to want to end “natural” incentives?!


Sounds like a God complex.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 06:07 PM
What kind of damned central planner does it take to want to end “natural” incentives?!
Nobody wants to, that's the point.

We will need some kind of active border controls as long as the natural incentives exist or we will still be subjected to an invasion that will destroy liberty.

CCTelander
03-06-2019, 06:08 PM
What kind of damned central planner does it take to want to end “natural” incentives?!


Sounds like a God complex.


The kind you find here on RPFs nowadays. Ain't thst a kick in the head?

euphemia
03-06-2019, 06:12 PM
The nanny state needs to go away no matter what.

PAF
03-06-2019, 06:14 PM
Nobody wants to, that's the point.

We will need some kind of active border controls as long as the natural incentives exist or we will still be subjected to an invasion that will destroy liberty.


No, that's not a contradiction. In fact, it's completely logical; kill liberty in order to preserve liberty.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 06:17 PM
No, that's not a contradiction. In fact, it's completely logical; kill liberty in order to preserve liberty.
That is what your side wants to let the invaders do.

Liberty must be secured or it doesn't exist, if that requires a few compromises then that is still better than letting it be murdered outright.

CCTelander
03-06-2019, 06:20 PM
No, that's not a contradiction. In fact, it's completely logical; kill liberty in order to preserve liberty.


Now you're getting it.

CaptUSA
03-06-2019, 06:21 PM
There isn’t a “your side” or “my side”. There is only freedom and government. And some who just want people to fear other people so government can gain more power.

Zippyjuan
03-06-2019, 06:26 PM
There isn’t a “your side” or “my side”. There is only freedom and government. And some who just want people to fear other people so government can gain more power.

"You must spread some rep around..."

CCTelander
03-06-2019, 06:29 PM
There isn’t a “your side” or “my side”. There is only freedom and government. And some who just want people to fear other people so government can gain more power.


There you go, making sense again. How the hell are the hyper-partisan fear mongers supposed to get people to follow their agenda with people around making sense?

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 06:29 PM
There isn’t a “your side” or “my side”. There is only freedom and government. And some who just want people to fear other people so government can gain more power.
There are people who want bigger government and people who want smaller government, letting in millions of people who want bigger government will destroy any hope for any liberty.

CaptUSA
03-06-2019, 06:30 PM
"You must spread some rep around..."

And then theres Zippy. :rolleyes:

PAF
03-06-2019, 06:32 PM
The kind you find here on RPFs nowadays. Ain't thst a kick in the head?



There isn’t a “your side” or “my side”. There is only freedom and government. And some who just want people to fear other people so government can gain more power.


I am clean out of + Rep. What's this forum coming to when there are only so few I can spread it around to!

PAF
03-06-2019, 06:34 PM
There are people who want bigger government and people who want smaller government, letting in millions of people who want bigger government will destroy any hope for any liberty.


So grow government to reduce it. Just like with liberty. But in reverse.

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 06:35 PM
I am clean out of + Rep. What's this forum coming to when there are only so few I can spread it around to!
Spreading sht is a great talent ?

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 06:35 PM
Yes I noticed that. You're telling lies by making truthful statements? How does that logic work?

:recycle: :poo:

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 06:37 PM
There you go, making sense again. How the hell are the hyper-partisan fear mongers supposed to get people to follow their agenda with people around making sense?
How does any of that garbage make sense to you, oh wait.......lmao

jmdrake
03-06-2019, 06:38 PM
There are people who want bigger government and people who want smaller government, letting in millions of people who want bigger government will destroy any hope for any liberty.

You keep saying you are against the wall yet you want Trump to have emergency power to build the wall. Hmmm.....something doesn't compute.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 06:39 PM
So grow government to reduce it. Just like with liberty. But in reverse.
No, make government do the job it is supposed to do and stop doing the jobs it isn't.
Letting in millions of people who want to grow government will grow government and you claim that will result in liberty?

CCTelander
03-06-2019, 06:41 PM
How does any of that garbage make sense to you, oh wait.......lmao


Maybe if you think about it REAL HARD?

CCTelander
03-06-2019, 06:41 PM
You keep saying you are against the wall yet you want Trump to have emergency power to build the wall. Hmmm.....something doesn't compute.


You must spread some Reputation around...

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 06:42 PM
You keep saying you are against the wall yet you want Trump to have emergency power to build the wall. Hmmm.....something doesn't compute.
I would secure the border in a different manner but I am not in charge, the wall is better than nothing.
I would also take away the Presedent's "emergency" powers in our current system because they lack anything to balance them but as long as Congress doesn't pass a law to take them away I support Trump using them to protect the states from invasion as the Constitution mandates.

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 06:48 PM
Maybe if you think about it REAL HARD?

:facepalm:

CCTelander
03-06-2019, 06:49 PM
:facepalm:


:rolleyes:

PAF
03-06-2019, 06:51 PM
Stratovarious Swordsmyth


I have an acquaintance (Mexican) who picks up refrigerators and other appliances, repairs them and sells them, to support himself and his wife. It's a pretty good business, and though I am not a "greener", it does help lighten up the landfills. They are Catholic and anti-abortion. He complains about taxes like I do, and would like to expand his business and maybe hire a 4th person.

A few miles down the road, there's this red-head in her late 20's. Like me she smokes, but not like me, she's always hanging around doing nothing. Well, picking up guys if you want to get technical. She lives in Section 8 housing, the one I was referring to earlier who has a few kids but no hubby. Once I suggested she find a job to perhaps improve her and her kids lifestyle. Wouldn't you know, she flipped me the freaking middle finger, and it's MY tax money she gets for nothing! Can you even believe that gratitude?


So you guys prefer that we send all of the immigrants back, lose the Mexican, build a wall, and keep that red-head hanging around?

I am not speaking about other states where I have no business, I am speaking about MY own state where it is my business.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 06:53 PM
@Stratovarious (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=61147) @Swordsmyth (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=65299)


I have an acquaintance (Mexican) who picks up refrigerators and other appliances, repairs them and sells them, to support himself and his wife. It's a pretty good business, and though I am not a "greener", it does help lighten up the landfills. They are Catholic and anti-abortion. He complains about taxes like I do, and would like to expand his business and maybe hire a 4th person.

A few miles down the road, there's this red-head in her late 20's. Like me she smokes, but not like me, she's always hanging around doing nothing. Well, picking up guys if you want to get technical. She lives in Section 8 housing, the one I was referring to earlier who has a few kids but no hubby. Once I suggested she find a job to perhaps improve her and her kids lifestyle Wouldn't you know, she flipped me the freaking middle finger, and it's MY tax money she gets for nothing! Can you even believe that gratitude?


So you guys prefer that we send all of the immigrants back, lose the Mexican, build a wall, and keep that red-head hanging around?
Your single example of each doesn't represent the whole reality, the invaders use welfare at much higher rates and vote for the communists at much higher rates.

CaptUSA
03-06-2019, 06:56 PM
Stratovarious Swordsmyth


I have an acquaintance (Mexican) who picks up refrigerators and other appliances, repairs them and sells them, to support himself and his wife. It's a pretty good business, and though I am not a "greener", it does help lighten up the landfills. They are Catholic and anti-abortion. He complains about taxes like I do, and would like to expand his business and maybe hire a 4th person.

A few miles down the road, there's this red-head in her late 20's. Like me she smokes, but not like me, she's always hanging around doing nothing. Well, picking up guys if you want to get technical. She lives in Section 8 housing, the one I was referring to earlier who has a few kids but no hubby. Once I suggested she find a job to perhaps improve her and her kids lifestyle. Wouldn't you know, she flipped me the freaking middle finger, and it's MY tax money she gets for nothing! Can you even believe that gratitude?


So you guys prefer that we send all of the immigrants back, lose the Mexican, build a wall, and keep that red-head hanging around?

I am not speaking about other states where I have no business, I am speaking about MY own state where it is my business.

Too individual. Collectivist want you to collectivize people. That’s the only way they can grow government.

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 06:57 PM
@Stratovarious (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=61147) @Swordsmyth (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=65299)


I have an acquaintance (Mexican) who picks up refrigerators and other appliances, repairs them and sells them, to support himself and his wife. It's a pretty good business, and though I am not a "greener", it does help lighten up the landfills. They are Catholic and anti-abortion. He complains about taxes like I do, and would like to expand his business and maybe hire a 4th person.

A few miles down the road, there's this red-head in her late 20's. Like me she smokes, but not like me, she's always hanging around doing nothing. Well, picking up guys if you want to get technical. She lives in Section 8 housing, the one I was referring to earlier who has a few kids but no hubby. Once I suggested she find a job to perhaps improve her and her kids lifestyle. Wouldn't you know, she flipped me the freaking middle finger, and it's MY tax money she gets for nothing! Can you even believe that gratitude?


So you guys prefer that we send all of the immigrants back, lose the Mexican, build a wall, and keep that red-head hanging around?

I am not speaking about other states where I have no business, I am speaking about MY own state where it is my business.
The topic is Illegal Aliens, I realize that is a lot for some to grasp.
:)

PAF
03-06-2019, 06:58 PM
Your single example of each doesn't represent the whole reality, the invaders use welfare at much higher rates and vote for the communists at much higher rates.

What about Sadie? She makes awesome food, employs 3 of her family and also others outside of her family. What do I do when I'm in the mood for her fantastic cooking,,, go down to the other Section 8 across town and ask that 46 year old hag if she will make me something?

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 06:59 PM
Too individual. Collectivist want you to collectivize people. That’s the only way they can grow government.
You show me a way to read minds and I will agree to unlimited immigration for all liberty lovers, until then we are stuck dealing with groups when it comes to deciding how many foreigners to allow in to our country where they will be allowed to help decide how big government should be.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 07:00 PM
What about Sadie? She makes awesome food, employs 3 of her family and also others outside of her family. What do I do when I'm in the mood for her fantastic cooking,,, go down to the other Section 8 across town and ask that 46 year old hag if she will make me something?
I'm sure there is someone here legally that can cook.

What about the millions of invaders who want to impose communism on me?

axiomata
03-06-2019, 07:04 PM
Stratovarious Swordsmyth


I have an acquaintance (Mexican) who picks up refrigerators and other appliances, repairs them and sells them, to support himself and his wife. It's a pretty good business, and though I am not a "greener", it does help lighten up the landfills. They are Catholic and anti-abortion. He complains about taxes like I do, and would like to expand his business and maybe hire a 4th person.

A few miles down the road, there's this red-head in her late 20's. Like me she smokes, but not like me, she's always hanging around doing nothing. Well, picking up guys if you want to get technical. She lives in Section 8 housing, the one I was referring to earlier who has a few kids but no hubby. Once I suggested she find a job to perhaps improve her and her kids lifestyle. Wouldn't you know, she flipped me the freaking middle finger, and it's MY tax money she gets for nothing! Can you even believe that gratitude?


So you guys prefer that we send all of the immigrants back, lose the Mexican, build a wall, and keep that red-head hanging around?

I am not speaking about other states where I have no business, I am speaking about MY own state where it is my business.

Sounds like the state needs to abort her baby and sterilize that red head. At least until you "show me a way to read minds" of her future offspring.

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 07:05 PM
You must spread some Reputation around...

You must spread some more blsht around.

jmdrake
03-06-2019, 07:07 PM
I would secure the border in a different manner but I am not in charge, the wall is better than nothing.
I would also take away the Presedent's "emergency" powers in our current system because they lack anything to balance them but as long as Congress doesn't pass a law to take them away I support Trump using them to protect the states from invasion as the Constitution mandates.

So does that mean you will be contacting your Senator urging them to vote to override Trump's expected video of the vote that will pass absent his veto to override his emergency powers in this instance? :confused:

PAF
03-06-2019, 07:07 PM
I'm sure there is someone here legally that can cook.

What about the millions of invaders who want to impose communism on me?

Like I have no business meddling in other countries, I don't meddle in other states business. I am working on my own state, local in fact, as you should do yours.

How about we work together to get rid of the Fed handout programs? It's purely constitutional, much cheaper, and we'd have more control.

I was talking to my coworker today (he's from Syria), he came here 2 years ago to improve his quality of life. He's single, but he knows all about RP and respects him greatly. With the turn-over we've had at the company due to unqualified workers, he's def a keeper. Send him back too?

CCTelander
03-06-2019, 07:07 PM
You must spread some more blsht around.

:rolleyes:

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 07:09 PM
:rolleyes:

:moreblsht:

CCTelander
03-06-2019, 07:12 PM
:moreblsht:


LOL

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 07:13 PM
Sounds like the state needs to abort her baby and sterilize that red head. At least until you "show me a way to read minds" of her future offspring.
Natives have a right to be here, foreigners don't.

PAF
03-06-2019, 07:14 PM
Sounds like the state needs to abort her baby and sterilize that red head. At least until you "show me a way to read minds" of her future offspring.


I would def agree with that, but then I would have to change my principles and advocate abortion :eek:

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 07:14 PM
Like I have no business meddling in other countries, I don't meddle in other states business. I am working on my own state, local in fact, as you should do yours.

How about we work together to get rid of the Fed handout programs? It's purely constitutional, much cheaper, and we'd have more control.
I'm in favor of that but it won't happen as long as the left can import unlimited reinforcements.


I was talking to my coworker today (he's from Syria), he came here 2 years ago to improve his quality of life. He's single, but he knows all about RP and respects him greatly. With the turn-over we've had at the company due to unqualified workers, he's def a keeper. Send him back too?
Is he here legally?

CaptUSA
03-06-2019, 07:15 PM
Sounds like the state needs to abort her baby and sterilize that red head. At least until you "show me a way to read minds" of her future offspring.

Out of rep.

PAF
03-06-2019, 07:17 PM
Natives have a right to be here, foreigners don't.


So then YOUR way mucks up MY local, the same way the U.S. mucks up Yemen :eek:

See where this is going, when one doesn't stand principled and according the site mission?

PAF
03-06-2019, 07:19 PM
Is he here legally?


Me? Ask for "papers please"? He's a solid worker!

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 07:20 PM
So then YOUR way mucks up MY local, the same way the U.S. mucks up Yemen :eek:
No it doesn't and if you don't like the national policy I respect your state's right to secede.
The invaders are mucking up our country the way the US mucks up Yemen.


See where this is going, when one doesn't stand principled and according the site mission?
Nonsense, I stand on principle and the site mission doesn't include open borders.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 07:21 PM
Me? Ask for "papers please"? He's a solid worker!
If he isn't here legally then he should be sent back.
We can't afford to allow millions of communists to turn us into a communist country because you have a handful of friends you want to keep.
The communists will end up killing you and your friends anyway.

CaptUSA
03-06-2019, 07:22 PM
Me? Ask for "papers please"? He's a solid worker!

The better question is, "is he hurting anybody?" But that's immaterial to government workers. "Just following orders, sir!"

PAF
03-06-2019, 07:23 PM
Nonsense, I stand on principle and the site mission doesn't include open borders.

So then you did have that sit down with Ron Paul and set him straight. I wonder why he didn't send that memo out, unless he feels embarrassed about being wrong.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 07:23 PM
The better question is, "is he hurting anybody?" But that's immaterial to government workers. "Just following orders, sir!"
He is hurting everybody if he is here illegally.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 07:24 PM
So then you did have that sit down with Ron Paul and set him straight. I wonder why he didn't send that memo out, unless he feels embarrassed about being wrong.
:rolleyes:

Ron doesn't believe in open borders, he believes we have a right to control who comes here.

PAF
03-06-2019, 07:24 PM
The better question is, "is he hurting anybody?" But that's immaterial to government workers. "Just following orders, sir!"

That would be Swordy for sure!

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 07:24 PM
The better question is, "is he hurting anybody?" ...

YES

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 07:25 PM
That would be Swordy for sure!
What kind of blsht are you spreading now........

CaptUSA
03-06-2019, 07:25 PM
Ever notice how government collectivists just can't envision a problem being solved without government? So, if you don't want to grow government and let it hurt good people, you must be for open borders. It's like they can't argue, so they resort to labeling people and putting them in some collective. They know no other way. Can't even conceive of it.

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 07:27 PM
Out of rep.
Did you mean 'original thought, logic' ?

PAF
03-06-2019, 07:27 PM
Ever notice how government collectivists just can't envision a problem being solved without government? So, if you don't want to grow government and let it hurt good people, you must be for open borders. It's like they can't argue, so they resort to labeling people and putting them in some collective. They know no other way. Can't even conceive of it.

+ REP

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 07:28 PM
Ever notice how government collectivists just can't envision a problem being solved without government? So, if you don't want to grow government and let it hurt good people, you must be for open borders. It's like they can't argue, so they resort to labeling people and putting them in some collective. They know no other way. Can't even conceive of it.
What is your solution?

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 07:29 PM
Ever notice how government collectivists just can't envision a problem being solved without government? So, if you don't want to grow government and let it hurt good people, you must be for open borders. It's like they can't argue, so they resort to labeling people and putting them in some collective. They know no other way. Can't even conceive of it.
Then tell us wise one how you will keep millions of communists from coming to the US in pursuit of the wealth liberty will create without active control of the borders and immigration or how you will keep millions of communists and their children from imposing a communist government on your anarchic paradise.

PAF
03-06-2019, 07:30 PM
What is your solution?

A better question... if YOU were to work within the RP/site mission, what would your solution be?

CaptUSA
03-06-2019, 07:33 PM
Spread FEAR!! Grow the STATE!!! Divide into FACTIONS. Fight your fellow MAN.

https://bostonhassle.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/03.08-theylive.jpg
https://i0.wp.com/www.nationalreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/they-live-082718.jpg?fit=789%2C460&ssl=1


Lol. Government tools are tiring.

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 07:33 PM
A better question... if YOU were to work within the RP/site mission, what would your solution be?
funny sht, so how are you cutting the Natural Incentives again?
:lmao:

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 07:34 PM
Spread FEAR!! Grow the STATE!!! Divide into FACTIONS. Fight your fellow MAN.





Lol. Government tools are tiring.


You're referring to yourself?

CaptUSA
03-06-2019, 07:35 PM
Again...

What kind of narcissistic central planner thinks he knows better than nature?! That should tell you something about the level of thought that goes into State-worship.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 07:36 PM
Again...

What kind of narcissistic central planner thinks he knows better than nature?! That should tell you something about the level of thought that goes into State-worship.
In nature animals defend their territory from outsiders that are a threat to them.
It is you utopians who think they are smarter than nature.

kahless
03-06-2019, 07:40 PM
Ever notice how government collectivists just can't envision a problem being solved without government? So, if you don't want to grow government and let it hurt good people, you must be for open borders. It's like they can't argue, so they resort to labeling people and putting them in some collective. They know no other way. Can't even conceive of it.


Then tell us wise one how you will keep millions of communists from coming to the US in pursuit of the wealth liberty will create without active control of the borders and immigration or how you will keep millions of communists and their children from imposing a communist government on your anarchic paradise.

https://media.makeameme.org/created/youve-been-waiting-5b4545.jpg

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 07:44 PM
https://media.makeameme.org/created/youve-been-waiting-5b4545.jpg

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-12bcuJb9b2g%2FWWOLe52ak6I%2FAAAAAAAAGPo%2FndEU2U5w TqIMoEWuRcX1DksdGa2-ySQzQCLcBGAs%2Fs1600%2FSkeleton.jpg&f=1

CaptUSA
03-06-2019, 07:49 PM
:rolleyes:
Ron Paul gave you the answer.
I've given it dozens of times.
Madison gave it to you in post 65 of this very thread.

Then, some hardcore megalomaniacs started talking about using government to end natural incentives...

If you don't want to listen; don't ask. Those that support the site mission know. The others are just here to sow fear and division and grow their beloved government.

CCTelander
03-06-2019, 07:51 PM
The better question is, "is he hurting anybody?" But that's immaterial to government workers. "Just following orders, sir!"


Oh he is. He most definitely is. He's a dirty commie working diligently to turn Amerika into another third world communist shithole. And, after a hard day's work, he enjoys nothing more than running wild on the streets raping, murdering and spreading disease till dawn. We know because of polls snd statistics and shit.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 07:51 PM
:rolleyes:
Ron Paul gave you the answer.
I've given it dozens of times.
Madison gave it to you in post 65 of this very thread.

Then, some hardcore megalomaniacs started talking about using government to end natural incentives...

If you don't want to listen; don't ask. Those that support the site mission know. The others are just here to sow fear and division and grow their beloved government.
NOBODY said government should end natural incentives, that is the whole point, you can't end all of the incentives and you wouldn't want to so you must take active measures to control the borders and immigration.

acptulsa
03-06-2019, 07:53 PM
https://media.makeameme.org/created/youve-been-waiting-5b4545.jpg


https://youtube.com/watch?v=ccfbw2RJ3ow

Know what the emergency at the border is? They don't have the facilities to handle and process the people they're already getting. How is the wall going to fix that?

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 07:54 PM
:rolleyes:
Ron Paul gave you the answer.
I've given it dozens of times.
Madison gave it to you in post 65 of this very thread.

Then, some hardcore megalomaniacs started talking about using government to end natural incentives...

If you don't want to listen; don't ask. Those that support the site mission know. The others are just here to sow fear and division and grow their beloved government.
Ending incentives will not answer the problems I posed.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 07:55 PM
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ccfbw2RJ3ow

Know what the emergency at the border is? They don't have the facilities to handle and process the people they're already getting. How is the wall going to fix that?
If they can't get in we won't need to process them.

acptulsa
03-06-2019, 07:57 PM
If they can't get in we won't need to process them.

If they walk up to an officer we have to process them.

kahless
03-06-2019, 07:59 PM
If they can't get in we won't need to process them.

Beat me to it.

CCTelander
03-06-2019, 07:59 PM
If they walk up to an officer we have to process them.


Or, we could just shoot them? Or like one worthy on this very board once suggested, incinerate them with flamethrowers?

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 08:02 PM
If they walk up to an officer we have to process them.
If there is a wall they can't walk up to an officer just anywhere and the lines will stretch for miles at the legal entry points, not nearly so many will need to be processed.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 08:04 PM
Or, we could just shoot them? Or like one worthy on this very board once suggested, incinerate them with flamethrowers?
https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP. c6PqqQJo2mVKuL5CvMuQVgHaFl%26pid%3D15.1&f=1

CCTelander
03-06-2019, 08:06 PM
https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP. c6PqqQJo2mVKuL5CvMuQVgHaFl%26pid%3D15.1&f=1


I'll give you this much. At least you own it.

PAF
03-06-2019, 08:06 PM
Ending incentives will not answer the problems I posed.

I see. So THAT'S what this is all about. Keeping the Incentives Flowing while spending even MORE money to build/maintain a cage and MORE government workers to police them/us.

Now I know why every time there is mention of "End Incentives" the statists go bazonkers! I get the same exact thing on the TDS forums over there!

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 08:07 PM
Or, we could just shoot them? Or like one worthy on this very board once suggested, incinerate them with flamethrowers?

How many illegals do you have living with you?

Are you supporting a dozen or more , cause we would sure like to see your commitment.

lmao

CCTelander
03-06-2019, 08:08 PM
How many illegals do you have living with you?

Are you supporting a dozen or more , cause we would sure like to see your commitment.

lmao


:rolleyes:

The sad thing is that you no doubt believe that you've won some kind of victory with such inane nonsense.

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 08:08 PM
I see. So THAT'S what this is all about. Keeping the Incentives Flowing while spending even MORE money to build/maintain a cage and MORE government workers to police them/us.

Now I know why every time there is mention of "End Incentives" the statists go bazonkers! I get the same exact thing on the TDS forums over there!

How are you going to cut the 'Natural incentives' , oh right, you have no idea.


How many govt employees do you need to supervise a wall?


:facepalm:

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 08:08 PM
I see. So THAT'S what this is all about. Keeping the Incentives Flowing while spending even MORE money to build/maintain a cage and MORE government workers to police them/us.

Now I know why every time there is mention of "End Incentives" the statists go bazonkers! I get the same exact thing on the TDS forums over there!
You are reading something other than what I wrote?

Just because ending incentives won't solve all of the problems by itself doesn't mean I want to keep them.

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 08:09 PM
:rolleyes:

6 ?

5?

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 08:10 PM
I see. So THAT'S what this is all about. Keeping the Incentives Flowing while spending even MORE money to build/maintain a cage and MORE government workers to police them/us.

Now I know why every time there is mention of "End Incentives" the statists go bazonkers! I get the same exact thing on the TDS forums over there!

Do you have anyone in your immediate family that can read?

Zippyjuan
03-06-2019, 08:10 PM
If they walk up to an officer we have to process them.

Limiting how many can go through legal entry points is forcing them to other places where they cross and seek out border patrol agents to turn themselves into. They are not trying to avoid agents but trying to find them and request asylum. They are not trying to sneak across. Facilities are full so they are released into the country. Law allows them to stay until courts can decide if they should be allowed to stay or not and those courts are backed up by years. More wall does nothing for the problem. The shutdown also closed those courts so the backlog is only growing.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/immigration-court-backlogs-compound-shutdown-enters-fourth-week/story?id=60232074

https://s.abcnews.com/images/Politics/immigration-backlog-graphic-ap-jc-190110_hpEmbed_21x16_992.jpg

CCTelander
03-06-2019, 08:11 PM
6 ?

5?


:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 08:11 PM
:rolleyes:

The sad thing is that you no doubt believe that you've won some kind of victory with such inane nonsense.
"I have a right to invite anyone on to my property that I want"
Isn't that what you anarchists always claim?

CCTelander
03-06-2019, 08:13 PM
"I have a right to invite anyone on to my property that I want"
Isn't that what you anarchists always claim?


A right to do some thing in no way implies an obligation to do so.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 08:13 PM
Limiting how many can go through legal entry points is forcing them to other places where they cross and seek out border patrol agents to turn themselves into. They are not trying to avoid agents but trying to find them and request asylum. They are not trying to sneak across. Facilities are full so they are released into the country. Law allows them to stay until courts can decide if they should be allowed to stay or not and those courts are backed up by years. More wall does nothing for the problem. The shutdown also closed those courts so the backlog is only growing.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/immigration-court-backlogs-compound-shutdown-enters-fourth-week/story?id=60232074

https://s.abcnews.com/images/Politics/immigration-backlog-graphic-ap-jc-190110_hpEmbed_21x16_992.jpg
They are almost all fraudulent claims, they are illegal invaders, they have just been taught a loophole by our treasonous left.

We need to stop granting asylum too.

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 08:13 PM
Limiting how many can go through legal entry points is forcing them to other places where they cross and seek out border patrol agents to turn themselves into. They are not trying to avoid agents but trying to find them and request asylum. They are not trying to sneak across. Facilities are full so they are released into the country. Law allows them to stay until courts can decide if they should be allowed to stay or not and those courts are backed up by years. More wall does nothing for the problem. The shutdown also closed those courts so the backlog is only growing.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/immigration-court-backlogs-compound-shutdown-enters-fourth-week/story?id=60232074

https://s.abcnews.com/images/Politics/immigration-backlog-graphic-ap-jc-190110_hpEmbed_21x16_992.jpg

No one is seeking political asylum, most likely a George Soros 'think tank' tool.

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 08:14 PM
A right to do some thing in no way implies an obligation to do so.

How many illegals in your home again?

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 08:14 PM
A right to do some thing in no way implies an obligation to do so.
If you aren't inviting them onto your property then that whole argument (which was never valid anyway) goes out the window.

acptulsa
03-06-2019, 08:16 PM
How are you going to cut the 'Natural incentives' , oh right, you have no idea.


How many govt employees do you need to supervise a wall?


:facepalm:

Quite a few, when it's a thousand miles long. The Nazis couldn't keep Allied POWs from tunneling under their barbed wire, which was only a few hundred yards.

Then you have the people to maintain it.

Zippyjuan
03-06-2019, 08:16 PM
They are almost all fraudulent claims, they are illegal invaders, they have just been taught a loophole by our treasonous left.

We need to stop granting asylum too.

That is for the courts to decide. If the claims are fraudulent, they get deported. But it now takes more than two years just to get a hearing. If you want to spend money, spend it on the court system.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 08:16 PM
Guaido invited the US to come in to Venezuela, where are all of the anarchists supporting his right to do so?

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 08:17 PM
That is for the courts to decide. And it takes more than two years just to get a hearing.
Not if we keep them out in the first place.

PAF
03-06-2019, 08:17 PM
Do you have anyone in your immediate family that can read?


I don't undermean what you stand. On that note, I am still trying to figure out what you mean by "natural incentives".

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 08:17 PM
That is for the courts to decide. If the claims are fraudulent, they get deported. But it now takes more than two years just to get a hearing.

They are all fraud.

CCTelander
03-06-2019, 08:17 PM
If you aren't inviting them onto your property then that whole argument (which was never valid anyway) goes out the window.


If you don't own a gun then the whole argument (that you have a right to) goes out the window.

Are we beginning to see the ridiculousness of our argument yet? Milk and cookies if you can answer correctly.

Zippyjuan
03-06-2019, 08:18 PM
They are all fraud.

You have personally investigated all of them?

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 08:20 PM
I don't undermean what you stand. On that note, I am still trying to figure out what you mean by "natural incentives".

:recyclingsht:
Over and over again, I posted it for you at least 4 times in the last week.
:facepalm:

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 08:20 PM
Quite a few, when it's a thousand miles long.
Less than it takes to patrol the border without a wall.


The Nazis couldn't keep Allied POWs from tunneling under their barbed wire, which was only a few hundred yards.
And yet they kept almost all of them on the side of the barbed wire that they wanted them on.
And the wall is harder to tunnel under than barbed wire.


Then you have the people to maintain it.
It's still cheaper than my preferred solution of heavy patrols or letting the invaders turn us communist.

Zippyjuan
03-06-2019, 08:20 PM
Not if we keep them out in the first place.

So you want to close all legal points of entry.

Stratovarious
03-06-2019, 08:21 PM
You have personally investigated all of them?

:facepalm:


Show me 5 that are legit, out of the last , 50,000 .

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 08:22 PM
If you don't own a gun then the whole argument (that you have a right to) goes out the window.
The argument that I have a right to any particular gun or that a gun has a right to be in my house does.


Are we beginning to see the ridiculousness of our argument yet? Milk and cookies if you can answer correctly.
Your argument is ridiculous.

Does the US have a right to enter Venezuela?
Even if Guaido invites it?

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 08:23 PM
So you want to close all legal points of entry.
That won't be required if the lines stretch for miles, the invaders will give up.

PAF
03-06-2019, 08:23 PM
Quite a few, when it's a thousand miles long. The Nazis couldn't keep Allied POWs from tunneling under their barbed wire, which was only a few hundred yards.

Then you have the people to maintain it.

What they don't get, or maybe they do, the numbers of government goons required to maintain and man that 1,000+ wall at tremendous $/liberty expense. And when that doesn't work, they will be barking for more surveillance at $/liberty expense.

And overloaded courts at $ expense, as well as the increase in numbers of psycho militants that will abuse their power not only over them, but us.

And it gets deeper, and deeper, and deeper... until there is nothing left of freedom to even worry about preserving.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 08:23 PM
I don't undermean what you stand. On that note, I am still trying to figure out what you mean by "natural incentives".
The wealth that liberty creates.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 08:24 PM
What they don't get, or maybe they do, the numbers of government goons required to maintain and man that 1,000+ wall at tremendous $/liberty expense. And when that doesn't work, they will be barking for more surveillance at $/liberty expense.

And overloaded courts at $ expense, as well as the increase in numbers of psycho militants that will abuse their power not only over them, but us.

And it gets deeper, and deeper, and deeper... until there is nothing left of freedom to even worry about preserving.
There will be much more left than will be left if the invasion is allowed to continue.

Zippyjuan
03-06-2019, 08:24 PM
:facepalm:


Show me 5 that are legit, out of the last , 50,000 .

https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/07/05/fact-check-are-80-of-asylum-court-cases-not-approved/


Nielsen mentioned the large portion of asylum-seekers who are not granted asylum after the Trump administration announced a “zero tolerance” policy toward illegal immigration on the southern border.

“About 80 percent pass that initial interview, but only 20 percent are granted asylum by a judge, which tells us that 80 percent of that is either just a flat-out fraud or somebody who thinks they can come here because they want a job here,” she said in a Fox News interview in May.

20% of 50,000 would be 10,000. I think that is at least five.

PAF
03-06-2019, 08:25 PM
:recyclingsht:
Over and over again, I posted it for you at least 4 times in the last week.
:facepalm:

Yes you've posted it 4 times, but a freedom nut like me just doesn't get it. Perhaps explain it a little differently.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 08:26 PM
https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/07/05/fact-check-are-80-of-asylum-court-cases-not-approved/



20% of 50,000 would be 10,000. I think that is at least five.
The judges are too lenient.

PAF
03-06-2019, 08:27 PM
The wealth that liberty creates.

Natural Incentive = the wealth that liberty creates. And you OPPOSE that??????

Zippyjuan
03-06-2019, 08:28 PM
Natural Incentive = the wealth that liberty creates. And you OPPOSE that??????

If we got rid of liberty and jobs they would probably stop coming. Net migration from Mexico turned negative when the Great Recession hit and jobs disappeared.

Then we could have more jobs and liberty.

CCTelander
03-06-2019, 08:29 PM
The argument that I have a right to any particular gun or that a gun has a right to be in my house does.


Your argument is ridiculous.

Does the US have a right to enter Venezuela?
Even if Guaido invites it?


:rolleyes:So sorry. No milk and cookies this time. Perhaps next time.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 08:30 PM
Natural Incentive = the wealth that liberty creates. And you OPPOSE that??????
NO.

WE CAN'T AND DON'T WANT TO END IT AND NEITHER DO YOU, therefore the invaders will still come even if the unnatural incentives are ended and they will vote to destroy liberty and the wealth that attracted them.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 08:30 PM
If we got rid of liberty and jobs they would probably stop coming.

Then we could have more jobs and liberty.
It is so much better to just secure the borders.

PAF
03-06-2019, 08:31 PM
If we got rid of liberty and jobs they would probably stop coming.

Then we could have more jobs and liberty.

Shill-Logic, which is why the people in this country will be their own undoing.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 08:31 PM
:rolleyes:So sorry. No milk and cookies this time. Perhaps next time.

Does the US have a right to enter Venezuela?
Even if Guaido invites it?

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 08:31 PM
Shill-Logic, which is why the people in this country will be their own undoing.
WE CAN'T AND DON'T WANT TO END IT AND NEITHER DO YOU, therefore the invaders will still come even if the unnatural incentives are ended and they will vote to destroy liberty and the wealth that attracted them.

It is so much better to just secure the borders.

Zippyjuan
03-06-2019, 08:32 PM
It is so much better to just secure the borders.

Like we do? Trump says they are secure. See my sig. Some just want to exploit the situation to expand government and government powers.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 08:33 PM
Like we do? Trump says they are secure. See my sig. Some just want to exploit the situation to expand government and government powers.
20+ MILLION invaders and an accelerating invasion means they aren't secure, Trump's statement was hyperbola and was referring to a temporary improvement over the much worse situation before.

Zippyjuan
03-06-2019, 08:35 PM
20+ MILLION invaders and an accelerating invasion means they aren't secure, Trump's statement was hyperbola and was referring to a temporary improvement over the much worse situation before.

Trump loves hyperbole. Like how many criminals and rapists are flooding across our borders. Be afraid! The Government can solve the problem! Trust us!

PAF
03-06-2019, 08:35 PM
Like we do? Trump says they are secure. See my sig. Some just want to exploit the situation to expand government and government powers.


Hey now, that's exactly how Bush created jobs. Grope and rape TSA. Which btw they now have a "domestic" blue-print - under THIS administration which nobody even cares to talk about.

Zippyjuan
03-06-2019, 08:37 PM
Hey now, that's exactly how Bush created jobs. Grope and rape TSA. Which btw they now have a "domestic" blue-print - under THIS administration which nobody even cares to talk about.

"If you aren't with us, you support terrorists!" More government fear pedaling. It works which is why they use it.

This one isn't selling quite as well (though some here are tying to help push it).

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/432359-poll-60-percent-of-americans-oppose-trumps-emergency-declaration-to


Poll: 60 percent of Americans oppose Trump's emergency declaration to fund wall

https://psmag.com/news/the-majority-of-americans-oppose-a-border-wall


THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS OPPOSE A BORDER WALL

Recent polling reveals that most Americans oppose the expansion of the border wall, and two-thirds oppose Trump using emergency powers to fund its construction.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 08:38 PM
Trump loves hyperbole. Like how many criminals and rapists are flooding across our borders. Be afraid! The Government can solve the problem! Trust us!


Hey now, that's exactly how Bush created jobs. Grope and rape TSA. Which btw they now have a "domestic" blue-print - under THIS administration which nobody even cares to talk about.

20+ MILLION invaders and an accelerating invasion is not hyperbola, it is an emergency.

PAF
03-06-2019, 08:39 PM
20+ MILLION invaders and an accelerating invasion means they aren't secure, Trump's statement was hyperbola and was referring to a temporary improvement over the much worse situation before.

Swordy, fyi, I was just down at the border several weeks ago. I got out, walked around, had a few conversations with Republicans here and there. Yeah, folks are coming in I can't/won't deny that, but nothing that alarmed me to the point that it bothers you. My freedom is worth more to me than corrupt government initiatives.

Zippyjuan
03-06-2019, 08:40 PM
20+ MILLION invaders and an accelerating invasion is not hyperbola, it is an emergency.

That is hyperbole. Fear mongering. Vote for bigger government! We will protect you from the hordes! Give up freedoms so we can protect your freedoms!

Zippyjuan
03-06-2019, 08:41 PM
Swordy, fyi, I was just down at the border several weeks ago. I got out, walked around, had a few conversations with Republicans here and there. Yeah, folks are coming in I can't/won't deny that, but nothing that alarmed me to the point that it bothers you. My freedom is worth more to me than corrupt government initiatives.

I live near the border. Border towns have some of the lowest crime rates in the country as well as dynamic economies.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 08:42 PM
That is hyperbole. Fear mongering. Vote for bigger government! We will protect you from the hordes! Give up freedoms so we can protect your freedoms!
No it is not.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 08:43 PM
Swordy, fyi, I was just down at the border several weeks ago. I got out, walked around, had a few conversations with Republicans here and there. Yeah, folks are coming in I can't/won't deny that, but nothing that alarmed me to the point that it bothers you. My freedom is worth more to me than corrupt government initiatives.
Our freedom is dying as the invaders and their children vote to steal it.

PAF
03-06-2019, 08:43 PM
20+ MILLION invaders and an accelerating invasion is not hyperbola, it is an emergency.

Whoaaaa! TWENTY MILLION? There's only 11 million folks in the entire state of PA!

If they crossed that bridge, did it break or was it sturdy enough? TWENTY MILLION? Whoaaaa!

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 08:44 PM
Whoaaaa! TWENTY MILLION? There's only 11 million folks in the entire state of PA!

If they crossed that bridge, did it break or was it sturdy enough? TWENTY MILLION? Whoaaaa!
Yale study finds illegal migrant numbers twice the accepted norm of 11 million (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?526703-Yale-study-finds-illegal-migrant-numbers-twice-the-accepted-norm-of-11-million)

PAF
03-06-2019, 08:49 PM
Our freedom is dying as the invaders and their children vote to steal it.

Yeah, go cry to the republicans up in the White House. Let's see if it's such an emergency that they'll pen an EO to end incentives, even temporarily. I'm certain every republican would be on board with that, and it would not oppose the constitution or screw with peoples property.

Or better yet, End Common Core/FedDeptEd so that they STOP molding socialist/statist minds - for National Security sake. If they do those things, maybe I'll buy it. Until then, wah wah wah.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 08:51 PM
Yeah, go cry to the republicans up in the White House. Let's see if it's such an emergency that they'll pen an EO to end incentives, even temporarily. I'm certain every republican would be on board with that, and it would not oppose the constitution or screw with peoples property.

Or better yet, End Common Core/FedDeptEd so that they STOP molding socialist/statist minds - for National Security sake. If they do those things, maybe I'll buy it. Until then, wah wah wah.
"We can't get enough water to put out the fire"
"Throw gasoline on it instead then"

Zippyjuan
03-06-2019, 08:53 PM
Yale study finds illegal migrant numbers twice the accepted norm of 11 million (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?526703-Yale-study-finds-illegal-migrant-numbers-twice-the-accepted-norm-of-11-million)

They reached the same conclusion as PEW that the number has declined since 2007 though. And it also says that the crime rate among illegal immigrants (already below that of citizens) is even lower (by 50%) than believed- another fear selling point.


https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2018/10/09/som-study-estimates-higher-undocumented-immigration-numbers/


“The single most important thing is that although we’re coming up with a much larger number, it’s not something that has happened all of a sudden,” Kaplan said. “It’s not that we have zillions of people pouring across the border. If you actually look at the figures, you’ll see that the number has actually been flat for the last 10 years.”


Kaplan noted that statistics such as per capita crime rate and job displacement due to undocumented immigration significantly drop in light of the different population size estimate.

“What our results say is we have the same number of crimes, but we’ve spread it to twice as many people,” Fazel-Zarandi said. “This means the per capita rate is half as big.”

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 08:58 PM
They reached the same conclusion as PEW that the number has declined since 2007 though. And it also says that the crime rate among illegal immigrants (already below that of citizens) is even lower than believed- another fear selling point.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/11/conflicting-new-estimates-of-illegal-immigration/
Some may have left because of the 2008 financial crisis but if they now have to admit that there are at least 22 Million AND THAT THERE USED TO BE MORE then why should we trust them about how many are coming or going?
And since the economy is starting to recover from 2008 then the number will continue to rise, not to mention the deteriorating conditions in their home countries.

The claims about their crime rate are bogus and have been debunked before but it doesn't matter, the political shift to communism that they cause is more than enough to keep them out.

Zippyjuan
03-06-2019, 09:00 PM
Some may have left because of the 2008 financial crisis but if they now have to admit that there are at least 22 Million AND THAT THERE USED TO BE MORE then why should we trust them about how many are coming or going?

And since the economy is starting to recover from 2008 then the number will continue to rise, not to mention the deteriorating conditions in their home countries.

.

They say the numbers have not been increasing.


“It’s not that we have zillions of people pouring across the border. If you actually look at the figures, you’ll see that the number has actually been flat for the last 10 years.”

Paper from 2018.


The claims about their crime rate are bogus and have been debunked before but it doesn't matter, the political shift to communism that they cause is more than enough to keep them out

Their numbers are real yet they are bogus? Which is it? Either you trust their figures or you don't.

enhanced_deficit
03-06-2019, 09:01 PM
Coulter crosses the line again: "The Only National Emergency Is That Our President Is An Idiot" (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?532217-Coulter-crosses-line-again-quot-The-Only-National-Emergency-Is-That-Our-President-Is-An-Idiot-quot&)She had recently insulted sitting POTUS by calling his presidency a "scam" and accusing him of nepotism, corruption etc. Previously some critics had also hinted about about corruption citing his son-in-law's connections in Israel and some Israeli companies profiting from US border contracts. But no credible proof has been reported in MSM.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 09:01 PM
Yeah, go cry to the republicans up in the White House. Let's see if it's such an emergency that they'll pen an EO to end incentives, even temporarily. I'm certain every republican would be on board with that, and it would not oppose the constitution or screw with peoples property.

Or better yet, End Common Core/FedDeptEd so that they STOP molding socialist/statist minds - for National Security sake. If they do those things, maybe I'll buy it. Until then, wah wah wah.


"We can't get enough water to put out the fire"
"Throw gasoline on it instead then"
If we burn it all down do you think we will be able to rebuild a free society with millions of communists added to the native left and the weak and foolish right?
Would a Constitutional convention today produce anything like what we have or the Articles of Confederation?
Or would we end up with something more like the Soviet Constitution?

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 09:04 PM
They say the numbers have not been increasing.
They are lying, just like when they all lied and said there were only 10 Million.




Their numbers are real yet they are bogus? Which is it? Either you trust their figures or you don't.
The numbers are bogus on the liberal side, there are more illegals here than they admit, there are more coming than they admit and they commit more crimes than they admit.
And the political shift to communism that they cause is more than enough to keep them out

Zippyjuan
03-06-2019, 09:05 PM
They are lying, just like when they all lied and said there were only 10 Million.


The numbers are bogus on the liberal side, there are more illegals here than they admit, there are more coming than they admit and they commit more crimes than they admit.
And the political shift to communism that they cause is more than enough to keep them out

So your own source is lying. I guess you are lying too then. You lose.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2019, 09:08 PM
So your own source is lying. I guess you are lying too then. You lose.
They are lying on the low side, they always do.

You lose.

Stratovarious
03-07-2019, 06:03 AM
Natural Incentive = the wealth that liberty creates. And you OPPOSE that??????


Sword gives you another cogent and concise example of ''Natural Incentives'' , which obviously
you 'get' , then you immediately turn it into an argument.

:facepalm: :poo:

johnwk
03-07-2019, 06:08 AM
According to the US Constitution, only Congress has the power to allocate money. .


And Congress has in fact authorize the president to reallocate certain available funds in the event of a declared emergency. see: 10 U.S. Code 2808 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/2808) and 33 U.S. Code 2293 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/33/2293)

JWK

It was February of 2019 when anongoing invasion of America’s borders swelled to tens of thousands a month, nota shot was fired to defend the borders of the United States, and America’s domesticenemies, socialists, communists andanarchists in Congress, pushed forward with their attempt to continue theinvasion in hopes of conquering a prosperous and freedom loving people.

Stratovarious
03-07-2019, 06:12 AM
So your own source is lying. I guess you are lying too then. You lose.

asylum noun (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/noun) asy·​lum | \ ə-ˈsī-ləm


(https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/asylum?pronunciation&lang=en_us&dir=a&file=asylum01) \

Definition of asylum

1 : an inviolable (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/inviolable) place of refuge and protection giving shelter to criminals and debtors : sanctuary (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sanctuary)

2 : a place of retreat (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/retreat#h1) and security : shelter (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shelter)

3a : the protection or security afforded by an asylum : refuge (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/refuge)
b : protection from arrest and extradition (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/extradition) given especially to political refugees by a nation or by an embassy or other agency enjoying freedom from what is required by law for most people

4 somewhat old-fashioned : an institution providing care and protection to needy individuals (such as the infirm or destitute) and especially the mentally ill

johnwk
03-07-2019, 06:16 AM
The topic is Illegal Aliens . . .
:)

And especially with regard to it being a national emergency.


JWK

Border patrol agents apprehended more than 100,000 people trying to enter the country illegally in just October and November of last year. LINK (https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/trump-crisis-at-the-border/)

johnwk
03-07-2019, 06:38 AM
I would secure the border in a different manner but I am not in charge, the wall is better than nothing.
I would also take away the Presedent's "emergency" powers in our current system because they lack anything to balance them but as long as Congress doesn't pass a law to take them away I support Trump using them to protect the states from invasion as the Constitution mandates.

Article 4, Section 4.

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.



I wonder if members of Congress who obstruct and refuse to protect a specific State against the ongoing invasion, can be individually sued for damages inflicted upon their citizens by illegal immigration.


JWK

Illegal immigration is now costing American citizens over $18 billion a year in healthcare costs alone! Far more than the measly $5.7 billion asked for to build a wall! LINK (https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2018/02/26/how-american-citizens-finance-health-care-for-undocumented-immigrants/#193737f912c4)

Anti Federalist
03-07-2019, 06:49 AM
75k last month alone. The ones that were caught. No worries. Life's good. End entitlements or something.

I can imagine the Roman Senate having similar useless and pointless philosophical arguments even as they were getting overrun by Visigoths and Vandals.

johnwk
03-07-2019, 06:49 AM
That is hyperbole. Fear mongering. Vote for bigger government! We will protect you from the hordes! Give up freedoms so we can protect your freedoms!

Hyperbole? There is a very real and devastating impact from illegal immigration.

Let us take a look at the destructive social and economic consequences in just one county in California inflicted upon its citizens in 1995 when this massive invasion of our borders began to accelerate. CLICK HERE (https://nativeborncitizen.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/societallegaliss00unit1.pdf) and scroll to page 93 for testimony given by JOAN ZINSER before the COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, DECEMBER 13, 1995

Good morning Chairman Smith and other honorable members of the Subcommittee on Immigration and Claims. I am Joan Zinser, Deputy Director of the San Diego County Department of Social Services. I direct the department's Income Maintenance Bureau, which has responsibility for AFDC, Food Stamps and Medicaid eligibility determinations. I am here today to tell you about the effects of illegal immigration on the County's assistance programs, and to present information regarding impacts on other county-funded services.

Impacts on San Diego County

In 1993, illegal aliens in San Diego County were estimated to be 7.9% of the population, or a total of almost 220,000 illegal aliens in a county with a population of slightly over 2 1/2 million. A 1993 Calffornia State Senate report estimated that the State, local governments - primarily the County - and schools incurred $304 million in costs to provide services to illegal aliens. These costs were offset by only $60 million in taxes generated by illegal aliens - leaving a net impact of $244 million.

Welfare Costs.

When a child is a US citizen, AFDC can be granted for the child but not the parent, if the parent is an undocumented immigrant. In 1992 there were 6,414 children born to undocumented immigrant parents in San Diego County hospitals. Each year, the illegal alien parents of nearly 2000 "citizen children" apply for and receive AFDC in San Diego County. The cumulative total of these "citizen child" cases continues to rise each year.

Public assistance is intended to support the citizen child, but is paid to the illegal alien parent and is, no doubt, used by the parent to support the entire family. Costs for providing AFDC to "citizen children" cases in San Diego totaled $37 million in 1993 for approximately 5430 AFDC cases.

Additional costs are incurred in Child Welfare Services. Combining costs for Out-of-Home and Family Maintenance services to families of illegal aliens results in an additional cost of $1.7 million.

Medicaid and Other Health-Related- Costs.

Medicaid services are an increasingly large portion of the costs involved in illegal immigration. In 1992, Medicaid paid for 6,414 births illegal alien mothers. Although studies have shown that illegal aliens use fewer Medicaid services than do the age-equivalent members of the general population, significant costs remain. Delivery costs are greater for babies with mothers lacking adequate prenatal care and many medical conditions are treated more cost-effectively in their early stages. Infectious diseases are also a major concern of the County. San Diego County has historically carried large costs because of illegal aliens with these problems. Costs associated with providing emergency and pregnancy related needs to illegal aliens are paid for under "restricted Medi-Cal benefits." During the 1992 calendar year, an estimated $37 million was paid for "restricted Medi-Cal benefits." Other costs, including uncompensated care in hospitals, community clinics, and other health services elevated the 1993 total costs to over $50 million.

Criminal justice.

A recent 90-day pilot project involved having INS Agents present in the county jails to interview those suspected of being an undocumented immigrant. Approximately 20% of the persons booked into the jails during that pilot were identified as being illegal aliens. With annual bookings of approximatel 105,000 persons a year, it is estimated that up to 21,000 were illegal aliens.



According to the San Diego County District Attorney, 8,521 felony crimes were committed by illegal aliens between 1987 and 1992. Illegal aliens commit an estimated 22% of felony crimes committed in the county. The number of misdemeanors committed during the same period in San Diego County by illegal aliens is estimated to be 17,000. In 1993, approximately 15. 1 % of the costs -accrued in dealing with crimes were spent on illegal aliens. Costs for illegal aliens to the legal system totaled $151 million in the County of San Diego for 1993.



Education.

Recently, a video of students crossing the border and getting on a school bus in San Diego County in order to receive free education was shown nationwide. Locally, we have worked to make sure that this situation does not recur, but education of the children of illegal aliens is also a significant CDSt. It is estimated that $60 million was spent in San Diego County in 1993 for education of illegal aliens.

________

And, more recently see:

Illegal aliens cost California billions (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/dec/6/20041206-102115-6766r/)

2004

”Illegal immigration costs the taxpayers of California — which has the highest number of illegal aliens nationwide — $10.5 billion a year for education, health care and incarceration, according to a study released yesterday.”

Also see: Testimony 51 Florida Hospitals in trouble due to illegal aliens expenses: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDjZ6gzo0C4)

Jun 10, 2008

”No need to editorialize. Here is a sampling of the sort of facts the politicians and pro-illegal lobby want you to ignore, yet expect you to continue to bear the burden of. Is it any wonder scores of hospitals in border states and elsewhere have shut down or closed their ER units?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

Then take a look at Texas Faces Rising Cost For Illegal Immigrant Care (http://www.kbtx.com/home/headlines/101098849.html)

Aug 19, 2010

Texas spent at least $250 million in the past year for medical care and imprisonment of illegal immigrants and other non-citizens.

And how about this: The Fiscal Cost of Unlawful Immigrants and Amnesty to the U.S. Taxpayer (http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/05/the-fiscal-cost-of-unlawful-immigrants-and-amnesty-to-the-us-taxpayer)

May 6, 2013

”In 2010, the average unlawful immigrant household received around $24,721 in government benefits and services while paying some $10,334 in taxes. This generated an average annual fiscal deficit (benefits received minus taxes paid) of around $14,387 per household. This cost had to be borne by U.S. taxpayers. Amnesty would provide unlawful households with access to over 80 means-tested welfare programs, Obamacare, Social Security, and Medicare. The fiscal deficit for each household would soar.”

And how about the tens of thousands of criminal aliens released into our nation’s population? See: Judicial Watch: 165,900 Criminal Aliens into US Population Through April 2014 (http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/03/24/judicial-watch-165900-criminal-aliens-into-us-population-through-april-2014/)

Mar 2015

”Nearly 166,000 convicted criminal illegal aliens were released by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) as of April, 2014. This is the analysis of 76 pages of DHS documents obtained by Judicial Watch via Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests. The criminal illegal aliens include rapists, murderers and kidnappers.”


- - -


There comes a time when the evidence concerning the general welfare of the United States can no longer be ignored, at least not by those who are deeply concerned about the well being of the United States.



JWK





Illegal immigration is now costing American citizens over $18 billion a year in healthcare costs alone! Far more than the measly $5.7 billion asked for to build a wall! LINK (https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2018/02/26/how-american-citizens-finance-health-care-for-undocumented-immigrants/#193737f912c4)

Stratovarious
03-07-2019, 06:49 AM
Article 4, Section 4.

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.



I wonder if members of Congress who obstruct and refuse to protect a specific State against the ongoing invasion, can be individually sued for damages inflicted upon their citizens by illegal immigration.


JWK

Illegal immigration is now costing American citizens over $18 billion a year in healthcare costs alone! Far more than the measly $5.7 billion asked for to build a wall! LINK (https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2018/02/26/how-american-citizens-finance-health-care-for-undocumented-immigrants/#193737f912c4)
But JW, The Open Borders clan wants warm fuzzies for everyone, even MS13.
I'm sure 80% of the worlds population would love to immigrate here, and would do so illegally , given
the opportunity.

PAF
03-07-2019, 07:07 AM
Illegal immigration is now costing American citizens over $18 billion a year in healthcare costs alone! Far more than the measly $5.7 billion asked for to build a wall![url=https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2018/02/26/how-american-citizens-finance-health-care-for-undocumented-immigrants/#193737f912c4[/url]

From the article:



So even though the dollar stakes are quite small in a federal budget that will spend $4 trillion in the fiscal year that just started, I believe citizens and federal policymakers should stop pressing the Easy button and seriously ponder four important principled arguments against federal tax financing of health care for unauthorized immigrants:

•Federal funding is unnecessary
•Federal funding is inefficient
•Federal funding is unconstitutional
•Federal funding is immoral



Building a wall ignores the above but adds more cost in building, maintenance, hiring more police state, affects a $1B per day economy and over 3 million private/business property rights.


Address the above bullet points first by stoke of a little ball-point pen and then go from there.

Stratovarious
03-07-2019, 07:33 AM
From the article:




Building a wall ignores the above but adds more cost in building, maintenance, hiring more police state, affects a $1B per day economy and over 3 million private/business property rights.


Address the above bullet points first by stoke of a little ball-point pen and then go from there.


Address the issue of 'Natural Incentives' that you fully understand one minute, and pretend to not to the
next., then ''go from there''


:facepalm:

PAF
03-07-2019, 08:10 AM
Address the issue of 'Natural Incentives' that you fully understand one minute, and pretend to not to the
next., then ''go from there''


:facepalm:


Strat, what are you looking for precisely? Natural Incentives (as SS defined), Natural Rights, Property Rights, far less government, all of which I advocate :up:

Superfluous Man
03-07-2019, 08:17 AM
Strat, what are you looking for precisely? Natural Incentives (as SS defined), Natural Rights, Property Rights, far less government, all of which I advocate :up:

And that is precisely the problem.

You two are talking past each other.

In Strat's mind, the fact that those things will continue to motivate immigrants to come here even without a taxpayer funded safety net for them is a bad thing. That it is a bad thing is so obvious to him that he just takes it for granted. This dogma needs no defense. He wants to know how you would stop them from coming here in pursuit of such incentives as you list, and doesn't understand how you could possibly be fine with it.

Meanwhile, when he asks you how you propose getting rid of those natural incentives, you're here saying, "Why in the world would I want to do that?" You wonder if you're misunderstanding him, and he just needs to explain his position more clearly (which, generally speaking, he does). But no, this time you understand him just fine. He really does think what it sounds like he thinks.

And I'll go out on a limb and say that most other immigration restrictionists may not be as overt about it. But they're coming from pretty close to the same place he is.

Stratovarious
03-07-2019, 08:18 AM
Strat, what are you looking for precisely? Natural Incentives (as SS defined), Natural Rights, Property Rights, far less government, all of which I advocate :up:

ha ha, and you don't see how cutting welfare isn't enough......:)

CaptUSA
03-07-2019, 08:35 AM
Natural incentives are not a bad thing; they're a great thing! And the people who respond to natural incentives shouldn't be of concern to anyone except a xenophobic racist or a government tool. If immigrants respond to natural incentives only, then all of the collectivist problems that the government uses to instill fear in people disappears.

Superfluous Man
03-07-2019, 08:37 AM
Natural incentives are not a bad thing; they're a great thing! And the people who respond to natural incentives shouldn't be of concern to anyone except a xenophobic racist or a government tool. If immigrants respond to natural incentives only, then all of the collectivist problems that the government uses to instill fear in people disappears.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CaptUSA again."

Superfluous Man
03-07-2019, 08:41 AM
I can imagine the Roman Senate having similar useless and pointless philosophical arguments even as they were getting overrun by Visigoths and Vandals.

My first question is whether or not your model of the end of the Roman Empire has any basis in reality. Did it really end because of lax immigration controls? Really?

My skepticism of that could be misguided. And if it is, then my next question would be why that's supposed to be a bad thing.

You are talking about the Roman Empire.

It used to be that around here people could mention empires and not need to explain that they were something we all opposed.

juleswin
03-07-2019, 08:47 AM
Natural incentives are not a bad thing; they're a great thing! And the people who respond to natural incentives shouldn't be of concern to anyone except a xenophobic racist or a government tool. If immigrants respond to natural incentives only, then all of the collectivist problems that the government uses to instill fear in people disappears.

Well said +rep

juleswin
03-07-2019, 08:52 AM
My first question is whether or not your model of the end of the Roman empire has any basis in reality. Did it really end because of lax immigration controls? Really?

My skepticism of that could be misguided. And if it is, then my next question would be why that's supposed to be a bad thing.

You are talking about the Roman Empire.

It used to be that around here people could mention empires and not need to explain that they were something we all opposed.

There was a time people on this site were so anti statist that they rejected drunk driving laws. Now they seem to be fighting for the preservation of the empire. How times have changed :(

Good video about the fall of Rome. And as you might have guessed, it did not fall because of unarmed migrants crossed their borders.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHW3Y_p2llo

Slave Mentality
03-07-2019, 08:57 AM
Natural incentives are not a bad thing; they're a great thing! And the people who respond to natural incentives shouldn't be of concern to anyone except a xenophobic racist or a government tool. If immigrants respond to natural incentives only, then all of the collectivist problems that the government uses to instill fear in people disappears.

Right on.

Stratovarious
03-07-2019, 09:00 AM
Natural incentives are not a bad thing; they're a great thing! And the people who respond to natural incentives shouldn't be of concern to anyone except a xenophobic racist or a government tool. If immigrants respond to natural incentives only, then all of the collectivist problems that the government uses to instill fear in people disappears.
Anyone that gives the excuse of 'Natural Incentives' as a Right to illegally enter the US are rapists and child molesters.

juleswin
03-07-2019, 09:03 AM
Anyone that gives the excuse of 'Natural Incentives' as a Right to illegally enter the US are rapists and child molesters.

That one fell flat :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP8sofAN4xc

Superfluous Man
03-07-2019, 09:04 AM
Anyone that gives the excuse of 'Natural Incentives' as a Right to illegally enter the US are rapists and child molesters.

What I would propose (and I suspect others here whose support of letting people come to America in pursuit of those natural incentives you find so offensive) is not to let those who come here for those things do so illegally, but to let them do it legally by changing the law so that they can. Then it wouldn't be illegal immigration any more.

I suspect, though, that you would then find that, even if it's not illegal immigration, you would still oppose it, and you would want those laws restricting it back. Because it isn't only illegal immigration that you oppose.

Stratovarious
03-07-2019, 09:09 AM
What I would propose (and I suspect others here whose support of letting people come to America in pursuit of those natural incentives you find so offensive) is not to let those who come here for those things do so illegally, but to let them do it legally by changing the law so that they can. Then it wouldn't be illegal immigration any more.

I suspect, though, that you would then find that, even if it's not illegal immigration, you would still oppose it, and you would want those laws restricting it back. Because it isn't only illegal immigration that you oppose.
Open Borers, ha ha ahaaa.

CCTelander
03-07-2019, 09:10 AM
Anyone that gives the excuse of 'Natural Incentives' as a Right to illegally enter the US are rapists and child molesters.


Ok, I get it now. You're just trolling a la TheTexan. Man, you really had me going there for a while. Bravo!

Stratovarious
03-07-2019, 09:11 AM
That one fell flat :)

...

Apparently not.:D

PAF
03-07-2019, 09:45 AM
And that is precisely the problem.

You two are talking past each other. In Strat's mind, the fact that those things will continue to motivate immigrants to come here even without a taxpayer funded safety net for them is a bad thing. That it is a bad thing is so obvious to him that he just takes it for granted. This dogma needs no defense. He wants to know how you would stop them from coming here in pursuit of such incentives as you list, and doesn't understand how you could possibly be fine with it.

Ah, I see.

Stratovarious , let me start off by saying that there are countless data, and articles with each persons own perspectives, some more right/wrong than others, that readers with certain mind sets gravitate to. I stay informed by reading tid-bits of news here and there, but I don't immerse myself in reading every single thing, because there is no need to. I avoid analysis paralysis at all cost. I do, however, read bills and legislation, which is much more useful and accurate than msm slant/motive.

I have learned that anything can be interpreted to reflect ones view. Take for instance, JBS Episode 39. While I agree with much of it, the first point was "immigration", and how it contributed to leading us to where we are. Sure, I get that. But human beings are not born to live under a rock. I enjoy traveling here and abroad. I want the freedom to travel, or reside if I am fortunate enough, anywhere that I choose without restriction. I do not see travel or "immigration" as the fundamental problem. When I travel, I do so as freely as I can, while still abiding by the NAP. I have formed many friendships throughout, and contribute to their local economies.

I have learned that when people are empowered, no matter where they originate from, they more than typically do want to stand on their own. It is crutches, government involvement and lack of education that almost always gets in the way.

Lack of proper education is the reason we are at this impasse, as well as being taught to take advantage of others. Human beings only know what they are taught and what they experience. Few people have the motivation to really critically think outside the box on their own. TPTB know this, which is why there is no desire or effort to change the education system.

In my view, building walls, more police state, legislation to limit/prevent people from traveling freely, does not address the problem. They are control mechanisms designed to empower the state. Cases can be made that stopping immigration, even for a short time, would slow the radical change we are experiencing. But would it? Would Americans have a sudden change of heart? Would they think to themselves, "Gee, we have a Wall, let's stop having babies by different fathers and move out of Section 8!!!"? With the educational system this government forces down our throats, anybody with a rational mind would see that the answer is no.

Also consider that trump (R) won the WH, when the congress and senate were run by R's. Yet FedDeptEd/Common Core stayed completely intact. Were immigrants responsible for that?

TPTB do not relinquish power, they seek more of it. If/when the wall is built, and it becomes proven that it is ineffective in eliminating socialism, what next? More government solutions at tax payer cost? TSA Domestic Blueprint which is now underway? DNA biometrics to distinguish them from us? How much more do you want to fund the MIC, foreign AND domestic, before you are personally adversely affected? Is sacrificing your own freedom/liberty worth it to restrict another human beings freedom/liberty? Or perhaps instead, such as in my case, talk to people, form groups, teach and demonstrate what freedom/liberty mean, so that we can achieve RP, WB, the site and OUR own mission.


"Natural Incentives". Wow, what a term. Deranged people have a natural incentive to shoot up a store over a pack of smokes. I prefer to advocate Natural Rights and the NAP, which apply to ALL people, not just "Americans".

jmdrake
03-07-2019, 10:04 AM
I can imagine the Roman Senate having similar useless and pointless philosophical arguments even as they were getting overrun by Visigoths and Vandals.

The Visigoths and Vandals ultimately assimilated into Roman culture and became Christian so in the end none of that mattered to the average Roman. It was just the people at the top who were in trouble. Also the sack of Rome could have easily been avoided if not for the arrogance and stupidity of its leaders. Their biggest mistake? Turning against the very barbarians they had previously hired as mercenaries.


https://youtu.be/e5ewD-jzkJY

Yep. They created their own demise for the purpose of imperial war and then lit the fuse of their own demise by trying to take out what they now viewed as a threat. Sound familiar? But again, the "barbarian hordes" were actually quite civilized, already Christianized, and only destroyed the homes of the elite and left the common Romans pretty much alone. And the seat of Roman power wasn't even at Rome at that point.

PAF
03-07-2019, 10:34 AM
So this Wall business...


* Enter "Legally", which means they are eligible for government programs, and if they work, pay FED government taxes.

* "Punish business owners" who hire "illegal" immigrants, which violates Private Contract Rights.

* Utilize "Eminent Domain" along an entire state affecting 3 million people, which violates Private/Business Property Rights.

* Grows government, hires more government, at tremendous dollar/liberty cost, violation of RP/site mission.

* USMCA "in the works" which "balances out" labor, by way of International Labour Organization (UN) and Government Tribunals.


I can see why this Big Beautiful Wall is being promoted on RonPaulForums. ****NOT****

johnwk
03-07-2019, 11:09 AM
There was a time people on this site were so anti statist that they rejected drunk driving laws.



Of course you are talking about anarchists as opposed to those who support and defend our constitutionally limited system of government.



Aside from that, is it not in the best interests of the United States and her citizens to regulate immigration and reject various classes of foreigners who are a threat to the general welfare of the United States?


One of our forefathers touched upon this subject during our nation's RULE OF NATURALIZATION, FEB. 3RD, 1790 (http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llac&fileName=001/llac001.db&recNum=578)


Mr. BURKE thought it of importance to fill the country with useful men, such as farmers, mechanics, and manufacturers, and, therefore, would hold out every encouragement to them to emigrate to America. This class he would receive on liberal terms; and he was satisfied there would be room enough for them, and for their posterity, for five hundred years to come. There was another class of men, whom he did not think useful, and he did not care what impediments were thrown in their way; such as your European merchants, and factors of merchants, who come with a view of remaining so long as will enable them to acquire a fortune, and then they will leave the country, and carry off all their property with them. These people injure us more than they do us good, and, except in this last sentiment, I can compare them to nothing but leeches. They stick to us until they get their fill of our best blood, and then they fall off and leave us. I look upon the privilege of an American citizen to be an honorable one, and it ought not to be thrown away upon such people. There is another class also that I would interdict, that is, the convicts and criminals which they pour out of British jails. I wish sincerely some mode could be adopted to prevent the importation of such; but that, perhaps, is not in our power; the introduction of them ought to be considered as a high misdemeanor.

So, as it turns out, allowing the kind of foreigners who are now invading our borders to stay here should be considered as a "high misdemeanor" which happens to be an impeachable offense!


JWK


Make no mistake. There is a very real war taking place on American soil and it is being won by socialists, communists and anarchists, who have successfully obstructed the American People from securing the border of their country.

jmdrake
03-07-2019, 11:21 AM
So this Wall business...


* Enter "Legally", which means they are eligible for government programs, and if they work, pay FED government taxes.

* "Punish business owners" who hire "illegal" immigrants, which violates Private Contract Rights.

* Utilize "Eminent Domain" along an entire state affecting 3 million people, which violates Private/Business Property Rights.

* Grows government, hires more government, at tremendous dollar/liberty cost, violation of RP/site mission.

* USMCA "in the works" which "balances out" labor, by way of International Labour Organization (UN) and Government Tribunals.


I can see why this Big Beautiful Wall is being promoted on RonPaulForums. ****NOT****

Pretty much. And then you have people like Swordsmyth who are against the wall except for when they are for it.

Ender
03-07-2019, 11:31 AM
Ah, I see.

Stratovarious , let me start off by saying that there are countless data, and articles with each persons own perspectives, some more right/wrong than others, that readers with certain mind sets gravitate to. I stay informed by reading tid-bits of news here and there, but I don't immerse myself in reading every single thing, because there is no need to. I avoid analysis paralysis at all cost. I do, however, read bills and legislation, which is much more useful and accurate than msm slant/motive.

I have learned that anything can be interpreted to reflect ones view. Take for instance, JBS Episode 39. While I agree with much of it, the first point was "immigration", and how it contributed to leading us to where we are. Sure, I get that. But human beings are not born to live under a rock. I enjoy traveling here and abroad. I want the freedom to travel, or reside if I am fortunate enough, anywhere that I choose without restriction. I do not see travel or "immigration" as the fundamental problem. When I travel, I do so as freely as I can, while still abiding by the NAP. I have formed many friendships throughout, and contribute to their local economies.

I have learned that when people are empowered, no matter where they originate from, they more than typically do want to stand on their own. It is crutches, government involvement and lack of education that almost always gets in the way.

Lack of proper education is the reason we are at this impasse, as well as being taught to take advantage of others. Human beings only know what they are taught and what they experience. Few people have the motivation to really critically think outside the box on their own. TPTB know this, which is why there is no desire or effort to change the education system.

In my view, building walls, more police state, legislation to limit/prevent people from traveling freely, does not address the problem. They are control mechanisms designed to empower the state. Cases can be made that stopping immigration, even for a short time, would slow the radical change we are experiencing. But would it? Would Americans have a sudden change of heart? Would they think to themselves, "Gee, we have a Wall, let's stop having babies by different fathers and move out of Section 8!!!"? With the educational system this government forces down our throats, anybody with a rational mind would see that the answer is no.

Also consider that trump (R) won the WH, when the congress and senate were run by R's. Yet FedDeptEd/Common Core stayed completely intact. Were immigrants responsible for that?

TPTB do not relinquish power, they seek more of it. If/when the wall is built, and it becomes proven that it is ineffective in eliminating socialism, what next? More government solutions at tax payer cost? TSA Domestic Blueprint which is now underway? DNA biometrics to distinguish them from us? How much more do you want to fund the MIC, foreign AND domestic, before you are personally adversely affected? Is sacrificing your own freedom/liberty worth it to restrict another human beings freedom/liberty? Or perhaps instead, such as in my case, talk to people, form groups, teach and demonstrate what freedom/liberty mean, so that we can achieve RP, WB, the site and OUR own mission.


"Natural Incentives". Wow, what a term. Deranged people have a natural incentive to shoot up a store over a pack of smokes. I prefer to advocate Natural Rights and the NAP, which apply to ALL people, not just "Americans".

Exactly.

The whole purpose of the fed "educational" system was to make compliant factory workers. People are taught incorrect history, and led down the "correct" political path dictated by the rulers.

Immigrants have always been used by a chosen few, who lavished hate and lies upon them for political reasons- this includes Europeans as well as dem bad brown people from south of the border. The term "illegal immigrant" is fairly new and became incorporated so that more 'Murikans could run around with their hands in the air screeching about "illegals".

The answer has always been no entitlements, a reasonable way to enter & leave the country, a reasonable way to obtain citizenship, and the ability of people to freely hire whomever they want.

The Wall was never about "protecting" Americans- it's about enslaving Americans even more, just like The Patriot Act, which was hidden in the shadows waiting for the right event to come along. Ironically, we now have the big PA promoter sitting on SCOTUS.

CaptUSA
03-07-2019, 11:33 AM
Pretty much.

You'll hear them say they're not against immigration - just illegal immigration. Until you press them on it.
You'll hear them say they're a drain on our government programs - but then they're still against it, even if absent those programs.
You'll hear them say they're going to vote for more government - but then you tell them that THEY want more government. They'll say we need create more government to prevent THEM from creating more government.
You'll hear them say the immigrants are bringing illegal drugs - but when we'd remove that incentive, they still don't want them.
Even if you removed every artificial incentive, they still don't want them to come - but they can't explain why - they just want you to be afraid.


Really, their arguments make no logical sense. They just want you to fear "other peoples" instead of focusing the blame on their government.

If they really believed any of their justifications and moralizations, they'd welcome these people when those justifications and moralizations were removed. But they still won't. They're collectivists to the core and the State is their god.

Stratovarious
03-07-2019, 12:41 PM
Ah, I see.

@Stratovarious (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=61147) , let me start off by saying that there are countless data, and articles with each persons own perspectives, some more right/wrong than others, that readers with certain mind sets gravitate to. I stay informed by reading tid-bits of news here and there, but I don't immerse myself in reading every single thing, because there is no need to. I avoid analysis paralysis at all cost. I do, however, read bills and legislation, which is much more useful and accurate than msm slant/motive.

I have learned that anything can be interpreted to reflect ones view. Take for instance, JBS Episode 39. While I agree with much of it, the first point was "immigration", and how it contributed to leading us to where we are. Sure, I get that. But human beings are not born to live under a rock. I enjoy traveling here and abroad. I want the freedom to travel, or reside if I am fortunate enough, anywhere that I choose without restriction. I do not see travel or "immigration" as the fundamental problem. When I travel, I do so as freely as I can, while still abiding by the NAP. I have formed many friendships throughout, and contribute to their local economies.

I have learned that when people are empowered, no matter where they originate from, they more than typically do want to stand on their own. It is crutches, government involvement and lack of education that almost always gets in the way.

Lack of proper education is the reason we are at this impasse, as well as being taught to take advantage of others. Human beings only know what they are taught and what they experience. Few people have the motivation to really critically think outside the box on their own. TPTB know this, which is why there is no desire or effort to change the education system.

In my view, building walls, more police state, legislation to limit/prevent people from traveling freely, does not address the problem. They are control mechanisms designed to empower the state. Cases can be made that stopping immigration, even for a short time, would slow the radical change we are experiencing. But would it? Would Americans have a sudden change of heart? Would they think to themselves, "Gee, we have a Wall, let's stop having babies by different fathers and move out of Section 8!!!"? With the educational system this government forces down our throats, anybody with a rational mind would see that the answer is no.

Also consider that trump (R) won the WH, when the congress and senate were run by R's. Yet FedDeptEd/Common Core stayed completely intact. Were immigrants responsible for that?

TPTB do not relinquish power, they seek more of it. If/when the wall is built, and it becomes proven that it is ineffective in eliminating socialism, what next? More government solutions at tax payer cost? TSA Domestic Blueprint which is now underway? DNA biometrics to distinguish them from us? How much more do you want to fund the MIC, foreign AND domestic, before you are personally adversely affected? Is sacrificing your own freedom/liberty worth it to restrict another human beings freedom/liberty? Or perhaps instead, such as in my case, talk to people, form groups, teach and demonstrate what freedom/liberty mean, so that we can achieve RP, WB, the site and OUR own mission.


"Natural Incentives". Wow, what a term. Deranged people have a natural incentive to shoot up a store over a pack of smokes. I prefer to advocate Natural Rights and the NAP, which apply to ALL people, not just "Americans".

Correct: Open Borders is a bad thing.

Stratovarious
03-07-2019, 12:42 PM
Ok, I get it now. You're just trolling a la TheTexan....
I guess not, but I guess you have a mirror.

kahless
03-07-2019, 12:56 PM
You'll hear them say they're not against immigration - just illegal immigration. Until you press them on it.
You'll hear them say they're a drain on our government programs - but then they're still against it, even if absent those programs.
You'll hear them say they're going to vote for more government - but then you tell them that THEY want more government. They'll say we need create more government to prevent THEM from creating more government.
You'll hear them say the immigrants are bringing illegal drugs - but when we'd remove that incentive, they still don't want them.
Even if you removed every artificial incentive, they still don't want them to come - but they can't explain why - they just want you to be afraid.


Really, their arguments make no logical sense. They just want you to fear "other peoples" instead of focusing the blame on their government.

If they really believed any of their justifications and moralizations, they'd welcome these people when those justifications and moralizations were removed. But they still won't. They're collectivists to the core and the State is their god.

Sounds like the stuff you hear coming out of Progressive think tanks which can easily be debunked.

You want to know why, here is why which is completely logical.

- they do not want to be displaced becoming a stranger in their own community and unable to speak the language of the community.

- they do not want to be discriminated against in their own community since they are now outnumbered.

- they do not want to see the US end up with ethnic factions fighting one another in their communities or worse ethic or racial civil wars like the Balkans since immigration was not regulated.

- they do not want rapists, murders and various other criminals escaping from their homelands into our communities since immigration was not regulated.

- they do not want terrorists or some foreign power flooding the country with people that want to kill us since immigration was not regulated.

- they do not want to increase government spending to care for immigrants.

- they do not want people that have no concept of liberty fundamentally changing this country politically by eventually voting for an anti-liberty political system.

It is not all that hard to figure out.