New York Lawmakers look at splitting the State into two states.

[Swordsmyth]

In New York state government news, the topic of splitting the state into separate upstate and downstate entities has popped up again at the Capitol. A lawmaker representing a suburban-rural district in eastern New York this week proposed legislation that would authorize a study into the up-front and long-term costs of separating the upstate and downstate regions into two states, along with the legal implications and economic impact.
Meanwhile, lawmakers will return to Albany on Tuesday for a three-day workweek, their first since the Legislature convened Jan. 9 for its 2019 session.

More at: https://www.recordonline.com/news/20190226/lawmaker-proposes-study-of-ny-splitting-into-2-states

This could be VERY good.

[Zippyjuan]

Not gonna happen.


SECTION 3
New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/articles/article-iv

[Swordsmyth]

Not gonna happen.



https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/articles/article-iv
You never know till you try.

[Zippyjuan]

You never know till you try.

1863 is the last time it worked. It has failed seventy five times.

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/how-to-make-a-state-three-ways-to-redraw-the-u-s-a



This process has been used successfully to create five states: Vermont (from New York, in 1791); Kentucky (from Virginia, in 1792); Tennessee (from North Carolina, in 1796); Maine (from Massachusetts, in 1820); and West Virginia (from Virginia, in 1863). (For more details on Article IV, see the National Constitution Center’s Interactive Constitution online.)

BREAKING UP IS HARD TO DO

In addition to the handful of success stories, though, there are scores of failed attempts at statehood—“lost states,” as author Michael J. Trinklein classifies them. His book, “Lost States,” chronicles seventy-five almost-states, from Absaroka to Yucatan. For these lost states, the reasons for failure vary: poor timing, unappealing name choice (would you want to live in a state called Cherronesus?), lack of public support, or distraction from more pressing matters, like a struggling economy. Sometimes patience doesn’t even pay off, as has been the case with Washington, D.C. and Puerto Rico—they’re still hoping for their day to come.

[Swordsmyth]

1863 is the last time it worked. It has failed seventy five times.

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/how-to-make-a-state-three-ways-to-redraw-the-u-s-a
Never say never.

[juleswin]

Never say never.

Lol, this post reminds me of this scene from dumb and dumber


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqdNe8u-Jsg

Lloyd Christmas: What are the chances of a guy like you and a girl like me... ending up together?

Mary Swanson: Not good.

Lloyd Christmas: Not good like one in a hundred?

Mary Swanson: I'd say more like one in a million.

Lloyd Christmas: So you're telling me there's a chance?

[Swordsmyth]

Lol, this post reminds me of this scene from dumb and dumber


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqdNe8u-Jsg

Lloyd Christmas: What are the chances of a guy like you and a girl like me... ending up together?

Mary Swanson: Not good.

Lloyd Christmas: Not good like one in a hundred?

Mary Swanson: I'd say more like one in a million.

Lloyd Christmas: So you're telling me there's a chance?
Desperate times call for desperate measures.

[Anti Federalist]

1863 is the last time it worked. It has failed seventy five times.

Edison tried, and failed, over a hundred times, to come up with a woking filament material for the incandescent light bulb, until he found one that worked.

[juleswin]

Edison tried, and failed, over a hundred times, to come up with a woking filament material for the incandescent light bulb, until he found one that worked.

So are you saying there is a chance? I think you have a better chance of seeing 25 states US than a 51 state US. Essentially, I see the possibility of a break up than a split in any of the states and chances of civil war is microscopic.

[Anti Globalist]

Be awesome if it happened but I doubt it.

[oyarde]

This is a good example of one that could work . There is no real legitimate reason for anyone to oppose it .

[Pauls' Revere]

Not gonna happen.



https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/articles/article-iv

It seems all you need is the consent of the states concerned and that of congress. Get that and your good.

[Brian4Liberty]

This is a good example of one that could work . There is no real legitimate reason for anyone to oppose it .

Two more Democrat Senators? Other states that are huge and should be broken up first?

[oyarde]

Two more Democrat Senators? Other states that are huge and should be broken up first?

Yes I am not for it but I meant the citizens of that state . I see no reason they would want one another . I would never support adding any dems that would be like enlisting in satans army .

[Anti Federalist]

So are you saying there is a chance? I think you have a better chance of seeing 25 states US than a 51 state US. Essentially, I see the possibility of a break up than a split in any of the states and chances of civil war is microscopic.

As long as there is life, there's a chance.

I happen to think you are right.

However, any talk of separation and dissolution should be encouraged.

The longer you try to force, with the heavy ham-fisted hand of government, a Balkanized and "diverse" people, that all loathe one another, into a "union", the more likely you are to end up with bloody conflict and civil war.

[bv3]

So, basically, extra senators?

[Pauls' Revere]

Two more Democrat Senators? Other states that are huge and should be broken up first?

Perhaps they would be Republican?

[sic]

Splitting upstate from downstate has been discussed on and off in Albany for years. Supporters of the idea have pointed to the growing divide between the two regions’ political and social leanings.

Democratic voters outnumber Republicans by more than 2-to-1 statewide, with most of that dominant voting block concentrated in the New York City metro area. With every statewide elected office, the Assembly and now the Senate controlled by Democrats, Republican upstate lawmakers say their region’s needs will be ignored more than ever.

[Pauls' Revere]

Maybe just let NYC go and be New York. Then extend Pennsylvania North, While extending Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut West.

[juleswin]

Perhaps they would be Republican?

[sic]

Splitting upstate from downstate has been discussed on and off in Albany for years. Supporters of the idea have pointed to the growing divide between the two regions’ political and social leanings.

Democratic voters outnumber Republicans by more than 2-to-1 statewide, with most of that dominant voting block concentrated in the New York City metro area. With every statewide elected office, the Assembly and now the Senate controlled by Democrats, Republican upstate lawmakers say their region’s needs will be ignored more than ever.

Republicans like Peter King? Tom Reed? etc

[Pauls' Revere]

Republicans like Peter King? Tom Reed? etc

I'm unfamiliar with who they are, im guessing they are RINO's?

[acptulsa]

Yes I am not for it but I meant the citizens of that state . I see no reason they would want one another .

The rich liberals of Manhattan are always looking for more people to tax.

They managed to fool the whole country into paying for their commuter trains, flooded tunnel repairs, opera house...

[Pauls' Revere]

Republicans like Peter King? Tom Reed? etc

I'm unfamiliar with who they are, im guessing they are RINO's?

[TomtheTinker]

Two more Democrat Senators? Other states that are huge and should be broken up first?

How would it be 2 more Democrat senators? If anything Republicans would win upstate. Also idk about other states but as somebody who lives upstate trust me this has at the very least decent support. Upstaters dislike being attached to the big city and their big city ideas.

[juleswin]

I'm unfamiliar with who they are, im guessing they are RINO's?

They are conservatives in name only but come to think of it, I hate using RINo because it works on the assumptions they are nt real republicans because republicans are conservatives. I am not sure if they represent upstate NY. But I think u risk getting people like those 2 in congress if you giv NY 2 more senators. Also remember, Trump is from NY.

[Swordsmyth]

Two more Democrat Senators? Other states that are huge and should be broken up first?


Yes I am not for it but I meant the citizens of that state . I see no reason they would want one another . I would never support adding any dems that would be like enlisting in satans army .

Would upstate New York elect Demoncrats?
Last I heard, upstate was Republican country.

[TheTexan]

So, basically, extra senators?

And more voting!

[Pauls' Revere]

They are conservatives in name only but come to think of it, I hate using RINo because it works on the assumptions they are nt real republicans because republicans are conservatives. I am not sure if they represent upstate NY. But I think u risk getting people like those 2 in congress if you giv NY 2 more senators. Also remember, Trump is from NY.

I see your point. I agree with a split as it would first be self determination. Second, other states and congress would need to approve and Third, it might give other states the idea to split as well or flat out secede. Perhaps one that fits somebody's political philosophy better. More choices I guess although we would still be under a federal system so I'm not sure how much is gained.

[RJB]

I can't blame them.

[TomtheTinker]

Would upstate New York elect Demoncrats?
Last I heard, upstate was Republican country.

We would likely elect Republicans to the Senate. Which is also a reason it probably wont happen. They would likely be similar to R senators we get out of Pennsylvania, not so much like guys like peter king who represents Long Island aka big city Republican.

[Swordsmyth]

We would likely elect Republicans to the Senate. Which is also a reason it probably wont happen. They would likely be similar to R senators we get out of Pennsylvania, not so much like guys like peter king who represents Long Island aka big city Republican.
That's what I thought, it may be a longshot but our side needs to start playing longshots, that is how the left has made so much progress.

[oyarde]

Would upstate New York elect Demoncrats?
Last I heard, upstate was Republican country.

Since about the 60's new england Pubs are more left than an Indiana moderate Pub

[TomtheTinker]

Since about the 60's new england Pubs are more left than an Indiana moderate Pub

Upstate New Yorkers are more similar to rust belt Republicans than New England. Although their is certainly a hint of NE influence.

[parocks]

In New York state government news, the topic of splitting the state into separate upstate and downstate entities has popped up again at the Capitol. A lawmaker representing a suburban-rural district in eastern New York this week proposed legislation that would authorize a study into the up-front and long-term costs of separating the upstate and downstate regions into two states, along with the legal implications and economic impact.
Meanwhile, lawmakers will return to Albany on Tuesday for a three-day workweek, their first since the Legislature convened Jan. 9 for its 2019 session.

More at: https://www.recordonline.com/news/20190226/lawmaker-proposes-study-of-ny-splitting-into-2-states

This could be VERY good.

I like it. There are a lot of states that can be broken up into populous tiny city and suburbs vs rural area.

"California is so big, why does it only have 2 senators? If we were able to break California up into multiple states, the people of what is now California could have more senators, more representation"

[fcreature]

I wish. Don't tease me.

[parocks]

Two more Democrat Senators? Other states that are huge and should be broken up first?

GOP could get at least 1 senator for upstate NY. If they were able to do so, it's a wash. And Trump, or whoever the GOP nominee is, whatever year we're talking about, could win upstate NY.

[Brian4Liberty]

GOP could get at least 1 senator for upstate NY. If they were able to do so, it's a wash. And Trump, or whoever the GOP nominee is, whatever year we're talking about, could win upstate NY.

I am just guessing that there would still be a city in upstate NY that would expand with leftist Democrats, and since it would be such a small state, it wouldn’t take much for them to control the entire new state. Call me pessimistic.

California would be prime for breaking up, but all of the proposals break it up are by major urban centers. Thus each smaller state would have an urban areas and would still be dominated by leftists.

[Philhelm]

This is a good example of one that could work . There is no real legitimate reason for anyone to oppose it .

Loss of otherwise guaranteed electoral votes for Democrats.

[fcreature]

I am just guessing that there would still be a city in upstate NY that would expand with leftist Democrats, and since it would be such a small state, it wouldn’t take much for them to control the entire new state. Call me pessimistic.

California would be prime for breaking up, but all of the proposals break it up are by major urban centers. Thus each smaller state would have an urban areas and would still be dominated by leftists.

So the people of Upstate NY should forever be under the tyrannical rule of NYC because of a hypothetical impact on national elections? This has every day, real-world consequences for those of us who are here. It's not a game on a political map.

Upstate would be a red state. We already are. Sure, our elected officials may be RINOs, but how is that different than 95%+ of Republican representatives?

[Brian4Liberty]

So the people of Upstate NY should forever be under the tyrannical rule of NYC because of a hypothetical impact on national elections? This has every day, real-world consequences for those of us who are here. It's not a game on a political map.

Upstate would be a red state. We already are. Sure, our elected officials may be RINOs, but how is that different than 95%+ of Republican representatives?

Ah feel your pain... how small shall we make all of the new states so that we can get actually representation in State/Fed government?

[fcreature]

Ah feel your pain... how small shall we make all of the new states so that we can get actually representation in State/Fed government?

There are not many states in similiar circumstances. New York and California are the only two I can think of. Are there any others?

[parocks]

Maybe just let NYC go and be New York. Then extend Pennsylvania North, While extending Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut West.

This isn't the first time that changing the states has been discussed. I really enjoy this "change the states" game, and I'll jump in.

I wouldn't extend those states out. "Upstate New York" has a better chance of giving its electoral votes to the GOP if it isn't lumped in with Mass, CT, VT.

Here are the changes that should be made, that I like, at least.

New York - split New York into New York, and Upstate New York. That's how they see themselves anyway, for the most part.

New York will = New York City, Long Island, and Westchester county. Everything else = Upstate New York.

New York will almost always = 2 Dem Senators, and Dem President.
Upstate New York could give 2 GOP Senators, possibly, canceling out New York. Or 1 each, which make it a wash. Upstate New York will vote GOP Pres on occasion, more frequently than current New York does, I guess the last time New York went GOP was Reagan 84.

Here are other states that should be broken up. It's kind of lucky that so many of the big, liberal cities are on the water, or on the border with another state.

Pennsylvania can lose Philadelphia. 2 states, one Pennsylvania, one Philadelphia. Trump won Pennsylvania, even with Philadelphia, but typically that's not the case.

Illinois can lose Chicago. 2 states, one Illinois, one Chicago.

Michigan can lose Detroit. 2 states, one Michigan, one Detroit.

Florida can lose Miami and other counties like Broward, 2 states, one Florida, one Miami.

Missouri can lose St. Louis.

Washington can lose Seattle.

Oregon can lose Portland.

Ohio can lose Cleveland.
,
California can lose Los Angeles. And then can lose the Bay Area. 3 states, one California, one Los Angeles, one San Francisco.

[Brian4Liberty]

It seems to me that we have an overpopulation problem, with far too many urban and suburban people.

[Brian4Liberty]

There are not many states in similiar circumstances. New York and California are the only two I can think of. Are there any others?

Probably every state with an urban area that dominates state politics.

[parocks]

I am just guessing that there would still be a city in upstate NY that would expand with leftist Democrats, and since it would be such a small state, it wouldn’t take much for them to control the entire new state. Call me pessimistic.

California would be prime for breaking up, but all of the proposals break it up are by major urban centers. Thus each smaller state would have an urban areas and would still be dominated by leftists.

Everyone in NYC and LI is going to quit their jobs and move to Albany, Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, Ithaca? I don't think so.


Everywhere is the same, the big cities go 80-20 Dem, and the smaller cities + rural go 60-40 GOP.

You don't want to carve out a city that is surrounded by land of the state, but you can lop off a corner of a state, or a city that is on water.

Voting-wise, it's a win for GOP if all of the states that have troublemaking leftist cities in them got rid of those cities, where it would work.

[fcreature]

Probably every state with an urban area that dominates state politics.

There is so much more to it than that. Our urban area that dominates state politics is in its own distinct geography. It's not as if it's in the middle of our state. There are clear border lines that could easily be drawn. Additionally, it's not just about politics - it's about culture. Downstaters and upstaters have no care in the world for each other. Each thinks the other is a leech and each is convinced the other would fail immediately if the state were to split. There is absolutely no cohesion.

[Swordsmyth]

I like it. There are a lot of states that can be broken up into populous tiny city and suburbs vs rural area.

"California is so big, why does it only have 2 senators? If we were able to break California up into multiple states, the people of what is now California could have more senators, more representation"
As long as the division liberates conservatives to have representation and doesn't just give more power to the communists.

[Pauls' Revere]

This isn't the first time that changing the states has been discussed. I really enjoy this "change the states" game, and I'll jump in.

I wouldn't extend those states out. "Upstate New York" has a better chance of giving its electoral votes to the GOP if it isn't lumped in with Mass, CT, VT.

Here are the changes that should be made, that I like, at least.

New York - split New York into New York, and Upstate New York. That's how they see themselves anyway, for the most part.

New York will = New York City, Long Island, and Westchester county. Everything else = Upstate New York.

New York will almost always = 2 Dem Senators, and Dem President.
Upstate New York could give 2 GOP Senators, possibly, canceling out New York. Or 1 each, which make it a wash. Upstate New York will vote GOP Pres on occasion, more frequently than current New York does, I guess the last time New York went GOP was Reagan 84.

Here are other states that should be broken up. It's kind of lucky that so many of the big, liberal cities are on the water, or on the border with another state.

Pennsylvania can lose Philadelphia. 2 states, one Pennsylvania, one Philadelphia. Trump won Pennsylvania, even with Philadelphia, but typically that's not the case.

Illinois can lose Chicago. 2 states, one Illinois, one Chicago.

Michigan can lose Detroit. 2 states, one Michigan, one Detroit.

Florida can lose Miami and other counties like Broward, 2 states, one Florida, one Miami.

Missouri can lose St. Louis.

Washington can lose Seattle.

Oregon can lose Portland.

Ohio can lose Cleveland.
,
California can lose Los Angeles. And then can lose the Bay Area. 3 states, one California, one Los Angeles, one San Francisco.


I love it! although I don't think cities alone would want to be states, they would want "some" surrounding area as well. Cali could easily be three states. The state of San Diego (Southern Cal), The Coastal State (L.A. to S.F. and 45 miles inland), and everything else.

[Pauls' Revere]

As long as the division liberates conservatives to have representation and doesn't just give more power to the communists.

They are both big government parties anyways.

[Swordsmyth]

They are both big government parties anyways.
One is for much bigger government than the other and we are making progress with decreasing the size of government that the other wants.

[Pauls' Revere]

One is for much bigger government than the other and we are making progress with decreasing the size of government that the other wants.

Given a choice between worrying about GOP or DEM senators in a new state or rather let the people there decide to split, I'd rather see the split happen first and worry about the representation later.