86 Years Ago, Hitler Carried Out a “False Flag” Showing How Gov’t Can Control

[Marenco]

86 Years Ago, Hitler Carried Out a “False Flag” Showing How Gov’t Can Control With Lies and Fear

The whole truth about the Reichstag fire will probably never be known. Nearly all those who knew it are now dead, most of them slain by Hitler in the months that followed.
~ Historian William Shirer, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich

On this date, 86 years ago, the headquarters for the German parliament, known as the Reichstag building, was burned down due to arson. Immediately after the fires, the Nazis passed a piece of tyrannical legislation called the “decree for the protection of state and people,” which gave them total police state control over the population.

The fires were blamed on Hitler’s political rivals, which allowed the regime to be extremely aggressive against anyone they deemed to be their enemies. However, many historians believe that it was actually the Nazi party who started the fire, in a plot to control the masses through fear.

This strategy is actually common in history, and has been used by many governments and has come to be known as a “false flag attack.” Unfortunately, over the years this legitimate military term has been grossly overused to the point where people think that it is some throw-away conspiracy theory. False flag attacks do happen though, and there is even verified proof that the US government has been involved in such operations.

For example, it was a false flag attack that caused the United States to enter the Vietnam war, but it wasn’t until 40 years later that we learned the truth about the Gulf of Tonkin Incident.

Initially, the American public was told that American ships were attacked by North Vietnamese boats, but the whole story was a twisted web of lies. In reality, the US warships initiated conflict with the North Vietnamese, and then later staged an attack against themselves to justify further action in the region.

Since the beginning of empire, the ruling class has created chaos in their societies so they could be given more power, under the pretense that they would clean up the mess that they actually created. The first ruler that we know of to perfect the art of creating chaos was the Roman emperor Diocletian who came to power in 284 AD.

This is the “leader” that was responsible for changing Rome from a developing civilization into a covert dictatorship. Since the Roman people had a history of freedom and financial prosperity, they were not going to give up their rights unless they were carefully manipulated into doing so. Diocletian needed to create an enemy that he could use as a scapegoat so he could raise taxes, expand his military, and take away the rights of the Roman citizens.

His policies were unpopular and he was having difficulty getting his people to fall in line, so he set his own palace on fire twice in two weeks and blamed it on his political and religious rivals. With his new powers, Diocletian completely reorganized the Roman political system to work like a dictatorship, but he continued to call it a democracy so the people would still think they were free. Diocletian’s approach has been used over and over by authoritarian rulers throughout history who manipulated their people into giving up their freedom.

Many people doubt that these types of plots are possible since they seem so elaborate and require so much cooperation and secrecy, but it is not far-fetched to think that the government is capable of pulling something like this off, and there is evidence of this in history to prove this as well.

The US government has even released documentation, proving they planned multiple false flags.

According to minutes from a meeting on March 22, 1962, held by the “Special Group (Augmented),” which according to an encyclopedia on the Central Intelligence Agency, included Attorney General Robert Kennedy, CIA Director John McCone, National Security Advisor McGeorge Bundy and chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Lyman Lemnitzer, detailing the creation of a false flag attack on the United States to be blamed on the Soviets.

According to the documents, the US government wanted to manufacture or obtain Soviet aircraft so they could launch an attack on America or friendly bases and use those attacks as a pretext for war.

According to the previously Top Secret classified documents:

“There is a possibility that such aircraft could be used in a deception operation designed to confuse enemy planes in the air, to launch a surprise attack against enemy installations or in a provocation operation in which Soviet aircraft would appear to attack U.S. or friendly installations in order to provide an excuse for U.S. intervention.”

Many of the accusations that are brought up against the government that get labeled as conspiracy theories are eventually proven to be true way after the fact. The official stories of many world-changing events, including the USS Maine, USS Lusitania, Pearl Harbor, Vietnam, are all drastically different than the government and media have led us to believe.

https://thefreethoughtproject.com/reichstag-fire-february-27/

[ProBlue33]

The start of the second world was justified by a false flag event known as the "gleiwitz incident".

It has be debated if 9/11 was a type of false flag as well.

Fake news events proliferate the propaganda, imagine the ones we don't know about.

And now politically motivated social false flags are happening like the Smollett and his Nigerians fake racism.

[RonZeplin]

And now we have the Paddock Bump-Stock Fire, and a new gun ban.

https://danielcrane18.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/trump-bump-stock-ban-1200-1024x537-1.jpg?w=720&h=385&crop=1

[UWDude]

Also, don't forget where the term "false flag" comes from. False flags are as old as war itself.

Very bad people willing to kill hundreds of thousands or even millions of "their own" people's lives in massive wars, are certainly willing to kill 1000 of "their own" people to get the fun started.

[juleswin]

Just saying this, if someone would orchestrate a false flag event that would lead to the public hanging of all the neocons and the deep state people selling the country out and killing foreign people abroad, I will be OK with it. I am more against false flags for the type of agendas they are used to promote.

[Danke]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfEBupAeo4

[UWDude]

Just saying this, if someone would orchestrate a false flag event that would lead to the public hanging of all the neocons and the deep state people selling the country out and killing foreign people abroad, I will be OK with it. I am more against false flags for the type of agendas they are used to promote.

Too risky, if exposed, all is lost. Neocons become martyrs, unjustly accused.
False flags are risky. They can be exposed, especially in the age of the internet and hand cameras everywhere, and a search engine that can bring these images and movies and recordings to the eye of anyone wanting to see, in a second.

I would never recommend a false flag. Like most "unsavory" (because putting 50 cal holes in a dude in his local army is savory) tactics, they usually have a huge risk downside, so they are not used often. That they are not used often, makes them a viable strategy. The more often they are used, the less viable they become.

Let the stench of false flags stick to your enemies. They are being exposed.

If the time for arms must come, it will come without a false flag being needed. Like the storming of the Bastille, a battle flag.

[Pauls' Revere]

The start of the second world was justified by a false flag event known as the "gleiwitz incident".

It has be debated if 9/11 was a type of false flag as well.

Fake news events proliferate the propaganda, imagine the ones we don't know about.

And now politically motivated social false flags are happening like the Smollett and his Nigerians fake racism.

The Gleiwitz incident (German: Überfall auf den Sender Gleiwitz; Polish: Prowokacja gliwicka) was a covert Nazi German attack on the German radio station Sender Gleiwitz on the night of 31 August 1939 (today Gliwice, Poland). The attack is widely regarded as a false flag operation, staged with some two dozen similar German incidents on the eve of the invasion of Poland leading up to World War II in Europe. The attackers had been posed as Polish nationals. Adolf Hitler invaded Poland the next morning after a lengthy period of preparations. During his declaration of war, Hitler did not mention the Gleiwitz incident but grouped all provocations staged by the SS as an alleged Polish assault on Germany. The Gleiwitz incident is the best-known action of Operation Himmler, a series of special operations undertaken by the Schutzstaffel (SS) to serve Nazi German propaganda at the outbreak of war. The operation was intended to create the appearance of Polish aggression against Germany to justify the invasion of Poland. Evidence for the Gleiwitz attack by the SS was provided by the German SS officer, Alfred Naujocks in 1945.

Operation Himmler:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Himmler

[juleswin]

The Gleiwitz incident (German: Überfall auf den Sender Gleiwitz; Polish: Prowokacja gliwicka) was a covert Nazi German attack on the German radio station Sender Gleiwitz on the night of 31 August 1939 (today Gliwice, Poland). The attack is widely regarded as a false flag operation, staged with some two dozen similar German incidents on the eve of the invasion of Poland leading up to World War II in Europe. The attackers had been posed as Polish nationals. Adolf Hitler invaded Poland the next morning after a lengthy period of preparations. During his declaration of war, Hitler did not mention the Gleiwitz incident but grouped all provocations staged by the SS as an alleged Polish assault on Germany. The Gleiwitz incident is the best-known action of Operation Himmler, a series of special operations undertaken by the Schutzstaffel (SS) to serve Nazi German propaganda at the outbreak of war. The operation was intended to create the appearance of Polish aggression against Germany to justify the invasion of Poland. Evidence for the Gleiwitz attack by the SS was provided by the German SS officer, Alfred Naujocks in 1945.

Operation Himmler:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Himmler

At least the Bromberg massacre wasn't a false flag. Poles who had been committing atrocties on ethnic Germans ovver did themselves that time and the German army responded. Poland wasn't invaded because of some attack on a radio station, they were invaded to protect the Germans minority suffering from persection in Poland.

No false flag needed

[ProBlue33]

At least the Bromberg massacre wasn't a false flag. Poles who had been committing atrocties on ethnic Germans ovver did themselves that time and the German army responded. Poland wasn't invaded because of some attack on a radio station, they were invaded to protect the Germans minority suffering from persection in Poland.

No false flag needed

This was already after the invasion began and poles were being executed, they retaliated in kind, doesn't make it right of coarse but it was war.
I am surprised you are regurgitating Nazi propaganda from 1939, that is really shameful.
My first neg rep in many years for that one.

[juleswin]

This was already after the invasion began and poles were being executed, they retaliated in kind, doesn't make it right of coarse but it was war.
I am surprised you are regurgitating Nazi propaganda from 1939, that is really shameful.
My first neg rep in many years for that one.

I think the poles felt like they could bully ethnic Germans (because of the war pact they had with France and Britian) in the areas that was handed to then after WWI. This is what I think led to their invasion of Poland, well the unfair settlement after WWI led to WWII but that is a discussion for another thread.

I completely understand your negative rep, I would have given myself a negative rep too if I had grown up in this sort of country where the average citizen is fed bucket loads of anti German propaganda daily. I grew up without being exposed to neither anti or pro German propaganda and I think I see things much differently than many of u guys. I don't know how else to say it, I expect more negative reps from this post and I am OK with it.

[dannno]

And now we have the Paddock Bump-Stock Fire, and a new gun ban.

https://danielcrane18.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/trump-bump-stock-ban-1200-1024x537-1.jpg?w=720&h=385&crop=1

https://www.rwarms.com/products/slidefire-ssar-15-ogr-bump-fire-stock/

[RonZeplin]

https://www.rwarms.com/products/slidefire-ssar-15-ogr-bump-fire-stock/

They're going to be in big trouble after the 2020 election, if a Republican or Democrat wins. :eek:

It looks like a WMD to them.

[juleswin]

This is bizarre. After making my post this morning, I started downloading some of my WWII research videos when all of a sudden my internet connection went out. The internet comes in and out but when I tried to connect to my PSN or youtube account, I noticed that both accounts have been logged off.

I am typing this with my phone and just leaving a trail in the rare chance that there is not an outage going on. Not planning to kill myself, dont drink or do any drugs. Its probably nothing but I am a bit paranoid right now :)

[RonZeplin]

This is bizarre. After making my post this morning, I started downloading some of my WWII research videos when all of a sudden my internet connection went out. The internet comes in and out but when I tried to connect to my PSN or youtube account, I noticed that both accounts have been logged off.

I am typing this with my phone and just leaving a trail in the rare chance that there is not an outage going on. Not planning to kill myself, dont drink or do any drugs. Its probably nothing but I am a bit paranoid right now :)

Lock & Load. :check:

[juleswin]

Lock & Load.

False alarm, my ISP is working on their lines. Their customer service said the service will be back at around 1430.

I thought all the truth bombs I drop on the forum was getting them worried :)

[acptulsa]

I grew up without being exposed to neither anti or pro German propaganda...

If you were never exposed to Nazi propaganda, how have you managed to spread two or three wheelbarrow loads of it all over the forums the last few days?

You must have encountered some somewhere some time.

[juleswin]

If you were never exposed to Nazi propaganda, how have you managed to spread two or three wheelbarrow loads of it all over the forums the last few days?

You must have encountered some somewhere some time.

You might want to re read what I said again before posting. I said that I wasn't exposed to pro or anti Nazi propaganda growing up. I did my own research a few year back and then came to my own conclusion.

I think my first experience with Nazis came while watching Sounds of Music but at the time I thought the movie was all fiction so I ignored it all.

[acptulsa]

I did my own research a few year back and then came to my own conclusion.

I hope you don't consider your conclusion conclusive, because it needs a little work yet.


You might want to re read what I said again before posting.


https://youtube.com/watch?v=LsrtCIC4EWM

[juleswin]

I hope you don't consider your conclusion conclusive, because it needs a little work yet.




https://youtube.com/watch?v=LsrtCIC4EWM

I am always open to the possibility that I am wrong and when I see evidence that contradicts my previous belief, I will go with it.

[acptulsa]

I am always open to the possibility that I am wrong and when I see evidence that contradicts my previous belief, I will go with it.


Bloody Sunday (1939) Bloody Sunday (German language: Bromberger Blutsonntag; Polish language: Krwawa niedziela ) was a series of killings against the German minority that took place at the beginning of World War II. On September 3, 1939, two days after the beginning of the German invasion of Poland, highly controversial killings occurred in Bromberg...

http://military.wikia.com/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1939)

Perhaps you're thinking of a massacre or massacres in Danzig?

Needs. Work.

You know, there are places on the internet where putting a positive spin on Hitler is appreciated and even encouraged. Places where they like socialism, love fascism and adore collectivism. Places like stormfront.

[juleswin]

http://military.wikia.com/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1939)

Perhaps you're thinking of a massacre or massacres in Danzig?

Needs. Work.

Yup, I think that is the one. Also, I read that the Poles were blocking the German's from freely traveling to their territory in Prussia. Add to that all the killing of ethnic Germans and u have a reason for war. They didn't need a false flag operation to have a reason to knock out Poland.

Imagine what the US would do if little Canada were killing ethnic Americans and denying us land access to Alaska. I would the first to sign up to that war(not really but that would be the closest thing that would make me wanna fight)

[juleswin]

You know, there are places on the internet where putting a positive spin on Hitler is appreciated and even encouraged. Places where they like socialism, love fascism and adore collectivism. Places like stormfront.

The funny thing about stormfront is that there aren't many pro Hitler people there. Majority of the people there still say idiotic things like Hitler should have gassed all the jews when I am thinking to myself, shouldn't you people be the ones saying that he didn't gas the jews? but no, most of them buy into the whole western narrative about Hitler except where the west sees it as a negative they see the atrocties as a positive. The place is filled with very confused people.

My time there was very depressing especially seeing how the majority eventually went with Trump. Its not as simple as they support socialism, they are libertarians, union supporting dems, christian right people, neocon conservatives etc there. Only thing they have in common is their support to make the US an ethnic homeland for white people.

[acptulsa]

Yup, I think that is the one. Also, I read that the Poles were blocking the German's from freely traveling to their territory in Prussia. Add to that all the killing of ethnic Germans and u have a reason for war. They didn't need a false flag operation to have a reason to knock out Poland.

The Prussians and the Poles have a history of antagonism going back through hundreds of years of acts and retaliations and escalations. Historians do not pluck one incident out of the middle of that and use it as evidence of something. That is what propagandists do.


The funny thing about stormfront is that there aren't many pro Hitler people there. Majority of the people there still say idiotic things like Hitler should have gassed all the jews when I am thinking to myself, shouldn't you people be the ones saying that he didn't gas the jews? but no, most of them buy into the whole western narrative about Hitler except where the west sees it as a negative they see the atrocties as a positive. The place is filled with very confused people.

My time there was very depressing especially seeing how the majority eventually went with Trump. Its not as simple as they support socialism, they are libertarians, union supporting dems, christian right people, neocon conservatives etc there. Only thing they have in common is their support to make the US an ethnic homeland for white people.

Well, that's an enlightening statement. We just learned several things about you. One of those things is you have no earthly clue what a libertarian is. What a libertarian is not is a collectivist. What a person who wants to create an ethnic conclave is is a collectivist.

Therefore you encountered no libertarians there. Get your eyes checked.

[juleswin]

The Prussians and the Poles have a history of antagonism going back through hundreds of years of acts and retaliations and escalations. Historians do not pluck one incident out of the middle of that and use it as evidence of something. That is what propagandists do.

I have to say that your reading comprehension must not be your strongest suit, I said all the killings and denial of access to their territory, how did regard all that I said as one event.


Well, that's an enlightening statement. We just learned several things about you. One of those things is you have no earthly clue what a libertarian is. What a libertarian is not is a collectivist. What a person who wants to create an ethnic conclave is is a collectivist.

Therefore you encountered no libertarians there. Get your eyes checked.

You have a tendency of jumping to conclusions. These people were libertarians, the ones I talk about are collectivists but they are the sort of libertrains that also believe in the NAP. They talk about options of buying out the non whites to leave the country or buying up land in Montana with like minded people and making that a white enclave. There is nothing that says that you cannot be a libertarian and desire to live with people of your own race, nothing

My simple definition of libertarianism is someone who believes in the NAP, they can be hippies living in a commune, just as long as they live their lives without violating the NAP, they are libertarians in my book.

[acptulsa]

I have to say that your reading comprehension must not be your strongest suit, I said all the killings and denial of access to their territory, how did regard all that I said as one event.

You only talked about one lane of a two-way street. Propagandist.


You have a tendency of jumping to conclusions. These people were libertarians, the ones I talk about are collectivists but they are the sort of libertrains that also believe in the NAP. They talk about options of buying out the non whites to leave the country or buying up land in Montana with like minded people and making that a white enclave. There is nothing that says that you cannot be a libertarian and desire to live with people of your own race, nothing

My simple definition of libertarianism is someone who believes in the NAP, they can be hippies living in a commune, just as long as they live their lives without violating the NAP, they are libertarians in my book.

One second you say they believe in the nonaggression principle, the next you say they don't want x American citizens around. What are they going to do if some show up, and politely but firmly refuse to leave?

Libertarian commune-ists? Really? Why does talking to you always lead to repeating myself? You do not know what a libertarian is.

[TheCount]

These people were libertarians, the ones I talk about are collectivists but they are the sort of libertrains that also believe in the NAP. They talk about options of buying out the non whites to leave the country or buying up land in Montana with like minded people and making that a white enclave. There is nothing that says that you cannot be a libertarian and desire to live with people of your own race, nothing

There's a reason why people like this rarely talk about how, exactly, they plan to keep their enclave 'pure' or what sort of government they would implement. Without some level of fascism, there is no way to to maintain an ethnostate.


My simple definition of libertarianism is someone who believes in the NAP, they can be hippies living in a commune, just as long as they live their lives without violating the NAP, they are libertarians in my book.

That's not a libertarian. That's some flavor of defensivist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensivism)or pacifisist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacificism). They may, coincidentally, also believe in libertarianism, but it is possible to have a communist or fascist state which is not aggressive toward its neighbors (only aggressive toward its own citizens).

[ProBlue33]

This is bizarre. After making my post this morning, I started downloading some of my WWII research videos when all of a sudden my internet connection went out. The internet comes in and out but when I tried to connect to my PSN or youtube account, I noticed that both accounts have been logged off.

I am typing this with my phone and just leaving a trail in the rare chance that there is not an outage going on. Not planning to kill myself, dont drink or do any drugs. Its probably nothing but I am a bit paranoid right now :)

Yeah the Mossad might be taking note of blatant pro Nazi statements made online :mouthopen::questionsmerk:

[Pauls' Revere]

This was already after the invasion began and poles were being executed, they retaliated in kind, doesn't make it right of coarse but it was war.
I am surprised you are regurgitating Nazi propaganda from 1939, that is really shameful.
My first neg rep in many years for that one.


Right, it came afterwards more of a timeline thing. Still very bad. And thanks Juleswin for the information. I had no idea of the Bromberg incident until now. Probably for that reason.

[Pauls' Revere]

This is bizarre. After making my post this morning, I started downloading some of my WWII research videos when all of a sudden my internet connection went out. The internet comes in and out but when I tried to connect to my PSN or youtube account, I noticed that both accounts have been logged off.

I am typing this with my phone and just leaving a trail in the rare chance that there is not an outage going on. Not planning to kill myself, dont drink or do any drugs. Its probably nothing but I am a bit paranoid right now :)


I thought that the history behind Hans Thilo Schmidt was interesting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Thilo_Schmidt

A former officer, Schmidt had been forced to leave the army having suffered from gas during the First World War.[1] However, his brother, Rudolf Schmidt, secured him a civilian post at the German Armed Forces' cryptographic headquarters, the Cipher Office.[2] Shortly after the military version of the Enigma machine was introduced, he contacted French intelligence and offered to supply information about the new machine. His offer was accepted by Captain Gustave Bertrand of French Intelligence, and he received from the French the codename Asché, and was assigned a contact, the French agent codenamed Rex.

For the next several years, until he left his position in Germany, he met with French agents at various European cities and supplied them copies of the Enigma machine's instruction manual, operating procedures, and lists of key settings. Even with this information, however, French Intelligence was unable to break messages encrypted on the Enigma. Nor were the British cryptologists whom Bertrand contacted able to make any headway.

In December 1932, Bertrand shared intelligence obtained from Asché with the Polish General Staff's Cipher Bureau (Biuro Szyfrów). Mathematician-cryptologist Marian Rejewski had already set up a system of equations describing the operation of the then new German Army Enigma rotor-wirings. The key-settings lists provided by Schmidt helped fill in enough of the unknowns in Rejewski's formulae, allowing him to speedily solve the equations and recover the wirings. That accomplished, the Poles were henceforth able to read Enigma traffic for nearly seven years to the outbreak of World War II as well as for a time into the War, while operating in conjunction with French intelligence in France. In a two-week January 1938 trial, they solved and read about three-quarters of all Wehrmacht (German Armed Forces) Enigma intercepts: a remarkable result, considering that parts of the raw intercepts were garbled or incomplete due to interference [Kozaczuk, Enigma 1984, p. 45].

After the Battle of France, the French agent who had been Schmidt's case officer, a German citizen named Stallmann who went by the name "Rodolphe Lemoine" (fr) and used the codename "Rex," was arrested by the Gestapo and betrayed Schmidt as a French spy. Schmidt was arrested on 1 April 1943, and in September 1943 his daughter Giselle was called on to identify his body; her account (as recounted in Hugh Sebag-Montefiore's book) suggests that Schmidt may have committed suicide.

[juleswin]

You only talked about one lane of a two-way street. Propagandist.

I have listened to both sides and I think I am going with the side that is more believable.



One second you say they believe in the nonaggression principle, the next you say they don't want x American citizens around. What are they going to do if some show up, and politely but firmly refuse to leave?

Libertarian commune-ists? Really? Why does talking to you always lead to repeating myself? You do not know what a libertarian is.

The way they talk about it, they would make the US or parts of it a private club where entrance is by invitation only, that way they can claim private property as justification. Ofc, the details of this operation is scarce so please don't come back and ask me how this would be pulled off without violating the NAP.

[juleswin]

There's a reason why people like this rarely talk about how, exactly, they plan to keep their enclave 'pure' or what sort of government they would implement. Without some level of fascism, there is no way to to maintain an ethnostate.



That's not a libertarian. That's some flavor of defensivist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensivism)or pacifisist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacificism). They may, coincidentally, also believe in libertarianism, but it is possible to have a communist or fascist state which is not aggressive toward its neighbors (only aggressive toward its own citizens).

I dunno how they plan of achieving the goal, but if they can buyout the non white or buy large private property, they can maintain their ethno state/community with the right rules in place.

What is your definition of a libertarian?

[acptulsa]

What is your definition of a libertarian?

Oh? Won't ask me? I've only been one since before you were born.

Item one: A libertarian is an individualist. Individual rights, individual responsibility, equal individual opportunity, individual property. A libertarian hasn't got a collectivist bone in his or her body.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

I completely understand your negative rep, I would have given myself a negative rep too if I had grown up in this sort of country where the average citizen is fed bucket loads of anti German propaganda daily. I grew up without being exposed to neither anti or pro German propaganda and I think I see things much differently than many of u guys. I don't know how else to say it, I expect more negative reps from this post and I am OK with it.

Here, have a + rep back. I also notice that in people from your country and other countries.

[TheCount]

I dunno how they plan of achieving the goal, but if they can buyout the non white or buy large private property, they can maintain their ethno state/community with the right rules in place.

See what I mean? As I said that ethnonationalists do, you focused on the method of the establishment rather than the continuation of the ethnostate. The part that I bolded is where the fascism must occur in order to keep an ethnostate ethnically "pure."



What is your definition of a libertarian?

It's right there in the name. It's about liberty, not war or interpersonal relations. Here's a great sentence that I stole from Wikipedia:


Libertarians seek to maximize political freedom and autonomy, emphasizing freedom of choice, voluntary association and individual judgment.

[Swordsmyth]

See what I mean? As I said that ethnonationalists do, you focused on the method of the establishment rather than the continuation of the ethnostate. The part that I bolded is where the fascism must occur in order to keep an ethnostate ethnically "pure."

I am not an ethnonationalist but immigration controls aren't fascist.

[TheCount]

I am not an ethnonationalist but immigration controls aren't fascist.

Your immigration fetish isn't applicable here. There are lots of non-immigration ways through which 'undesireables' could enter your dream ethnostate. This is one of the many reasons why the concept, as advanced in this thread, of a libertarian ethnonationalist is thoroughly silly.

[Swordsmyth]

Your immigration fetish isn't applicable here. There are lots of non-immigration ways through which 'undesireables' could enter your dream ethnostate. This is one of the many reasons why the concept, as advanced in this thread, of a libertarian ethnonationalist is thoroughly silly.
My dream state isn't ethnonationalist and there are very few ways people could enter and remain in one other than immigration.

[TheCount]

My dream state isn't ethnonationalist

Yeah, yeah. I'm sure that you commonly leap to the defense of concepts with which you don't agree. Say no more, say no more. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLRZ0dIvwHY)



and there are very few ways people could enter and remain in one other than immigration.

Pregnancy.

[Swordsmyth]

Yeah, yeah. I'm sure that you commonly leap to the defense of concepts with which you don't agree. Say no more, say no more. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLRZ0dIvwHY)

I didn't defend the concept at all, I just discussed your errors




Pregnancy.
And?
The number of pregnancies that result from intercourse with foreigners is a small percentage.

[acptulsa]

I didn't defend the concept at all, I just discussed your errors

What error?

The U.S. tradition is, citizens may go where they wish in their country. This is anathema to ethnostates.

[Swordsmyth]

What error?

The U.S. tradition is, citizens may go where they wish in their country. This is anathema to ethnostates.
His error is the claim that fascism would be required to maintain the nature of an ethnostate.

On e reason I pointed it out is that the same principles apply to maintaining a liberty-culture state.

[acptulsa]

His error is the claim that fascism would be required to maintain the nature of an ethnostate.

On e reason I pointed it out is that the same principles apply to maintaining a liberty-culture state.

Something other than American tradition would be required. And since the American population is already, and always has been, very diverse, immigrants are not required to screw an ethnostate up.

Therefore, your one-trick pony is irrelevant to that conversation. Which means the error is yours, made by you and you alone.

[Swordsmyth]

Something other than American tradition would be required. And since the American population is already, and always has been, very diverse, immigrants are not required to screw an ethnostate up.

Therefore, your one-trick pony is irrelevant to that conversation. Which means the error is yours, made by you and you alone.
:rolleyes:

The discussion was about people who wanted to establish a new ethnostate that would start out as not very diverse and whether that could be maintained.

[acptulsa]

:rolleyes:

The discussion was about people who wanted to establish a new ethnostate that would start out as not very diverse and whether that could be maintained.

This doesn't refute one thing I said. All this proves is that you think whoever is stubborn enough to get the last word in will be perceived as correct.

Which is another unforced error on your part. You're wrong about that too.

[Swordsmyth]

This doesn't refute one thing I said. All this proves is that you think whoever is stubborn enough to get the last word in will be perceived as correct.

Which is another unforced error on your part. You're wrong about that too.
:sleeping:

[acptulsa]

:sleeping:

Posting in your sleep again?

It does show.

Gee how ever did we get along without these low-value posts? Very nicely, actually.

[TheCount]

The number of pregnancies that result from intercourse with foreigners is a small percentage.

Doesn't matter what the percentage it is, it immediately invalidates the ethnostate as the unwanted race voting tendencies culture whatever the hip term is these days will spread throughout the population unless murdered cleansed whatever the hip term is these days.

Those poor, put-upon, and mythical libertarian ethnonationalists will be forced to endure the presence of people who they believe should not exist.

[Swordsmyth]

Doesn't matter what the percentage it is, it immediately invalidates the ethnostate as the unwanted race voting tendencies culture whatever the hip term is these days will spread throughout the population unless murdered cleansed whatever the hip term is these days.

Those poor, put-upon mythical libertarian ethnonationalists will be forced to endure the presence of people who they believe should not exist. What a tragedy.
LOL, your knowledge of genetic or cultural diffusion is either pitiful or you are being dishonest.

[TheCount]

LOL, your knowledge of genetic or cultural diffusion is either pitiful or you are being dishonest.


fascism must occur in order to keep an ethnostate ethnically "pure."


Go ask your stormfronter friends how many half-whites will be allowed in their ethnically "pure" ethnostate.

[Swordsmyth]

Go ask your stormfront friends how many half-whites and three-quarter whites will be allowed in their ethnically "pure" ethnostate.
I don't have any stormfront friends and since we are discussing generic and theoretical ethnonationalists then stormfronters are irrelevant.

[TheCount]

I don't have any stormfront friends

Okay, from now on I will refer to them as your stormfront fellow travelers.


and since we are discussing generic and theoretical ethnonationalists then stormfronters are irrelevant.

Feel free to ask whatever other form of ethnonationalists you please, then. I would like to hear more about this ethnostate which won't be very concerned about the ethnic purity of its citizens because it's just a few percent here and there.

[Swordsmyth]

Okay, from now on I will refer to them as your stormfront fellow travelers.
You can lie any way you please, the mods are very lenient on you leftists.




Feel free to ask whatever other form of ethnonationalists you please, then. I would like to hear more about this ethnostate which won't be very concerned about the ethnic purity of its citizens because it's just a few percent here and there.
I have no interest in an ethnonationalist state so you will have to do your own research.

[acptulsa]

Feel free to ask whatever other form of ethnonationalists you please, then. I would like to hear more about this ethnostate which won't be very concerned about the ethnic purity of its citizens because it's just a few percent here and there.

What's the matter with you? Couldn't you tell that this person who jumped into a thread about Hitler and interrupted a discussion about how libertarians can't be ethnostatists didn't care about ethnostatists, libertarians or fascists?

[Swordsmyth]

What's the matter with you? Couldn't you tell that this person who jumped into a thread about Hitler and interrupted a discussion about how libertarians can't be ethnostatists didn't care about ethnostatists, libertarians or fascists?
I explained why I got involved, the same arguments can be used erroneously about culture since it spreads in a similar fashion to genetics.

[acptulsa]

I explained why I got involved...

You tendered an excuse for the same tired old spam which doesn't hold water.

[Swordsmyth]

You tendered an excuse for the same tired old spam which doesn't hold water.

:sleeping:

[acptulsa]

:sleeping:

Nobody cares about your narcolepsy.

Go tell Facebook.

[juleswin]

See what I mean? As I said that ethnonationalists do, you focused on the method of the establishment rather than the continuation of the ethnostate. The part that I bolded is where the fascism must occur in order to keep an ethnostate ethnically "pure."




It's right there in the name. It's about liberty, not war or interpersonal relations. Here's a great sentence that I stole from Wikipedia:

I see it differently, I think the setting up would be the hard part, maintaining it would actually be the easiest part. For maintainance, all they need to to set up a contract and after that, they just have to enforce said the contracts with everyone. I can imagine the contract reading like this, no invitation of non white inside the community, property cannot be sold to non whites etc etc. Just get everything needed on a contract on day one and you have yourself a self sustaining ethno community.

[Danke]

I see it differently, I think the setting up would be the hard part, maintaining it would actually be the easiest part. For maintainance, all they need to to set up a contract and after that, they just have to enforce said the contracts with everyone. I can imagine the contract reading like this, no invitation of non white inside the community, property cannot be sold to non whites etc etc. Just get everything needed on a contract on day one and you have yourself a self sustaining ethno community.

What if some Nigerian comes along that identifies as "white?"

[juleswin]

What if some Nigerian comes along that identifies as "white?"

Like this guy?

https://www.biography.com/.image/ar_1:1%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cg_face%2Cq_auto:good%2 Cw_300/MTE4MDAzNDEwOTIzNDU2MDE0/cloud-atlas---moscow-photocall.jpg

I bet you didn't know that there are actually white people who are Nigerians, not all the colonists left, there aren't that many but there are white people who have Nigerian citizenship, have Nigerians accents, speak the local language and consider themselves Nigerians.

[Anti Globalist]

Yes it is possible for a white guy to be born in a country that is predominately black.

[TheCount]

What's the matter with you? Couldn't you tell that this person who jumped into a thread about Hitler and interrupted a discussion about how libertarians can't be ethnostatists didn't care about ethnostatists, libertarians or fascists?
Interestingly, he joined the conversation to insist that his favored immigration policies could create or sustain an ethnostate...

[Danke]

Like this guy?

https://www.biography.com/.image/ar_1:1%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cg_face%2Cq_auto:good%2 Cw_300/MTE4MDAzNDEwOTIzNDU2MDE0/cloud-atlas---moscow-photocall.jpg

I bet you didn't know that there are actually white people who are Nigerians, not all the colonists left, there aren't that many but there are white people who have Nigerian citizenship, have Nigerians accents, speak the local language and consider themselves Nigerians.

Is that one of those Nigerian Princes I keep receiving emails from?

[Swordsmyth]

Interestingly, he joined the conversation to insist that his favored immigration policies could create or sustain an ethnostate...
Or any kind of state, excessive immigration is destructive.

[acptulsa]

Or any kind of state, excessive immigration is destructive.

But most particularly a police state.

[UWDude]

Without some level of fascism, there is no way to to maintain an ethnostate.


Ethnostates are far easier to direct and control. In general, nations have risens out of tongues, because culture and history is that deep ingrained in the human psyche, starting from birth.

How ever, without some level of FORCE, no state exists. However, with no state, there IS anarchy. With no state, the people CRY for a king. EVERY TIME.

So yes, your statement was true, however, it was true for all states. There always has to be some kind of "fascist" rule. There always will be.

Necessary evil.

Sorry folks, but here is a little lesson for you all:

Life's not fair.

[Swordsmyth]

But most particularly a police state.
No, not particularly.
You are much more likely to end up with a police state as a result of excessive and unselective immigration.

[acptulsa]

No, not particularly.


No? Immigrants are easy to spot without constantly saying, 'Show me your papers'?

[Danke]

No? Immigrants are easy to spot without constantly saying, 'Show me your papers'?

I think they have been doing that when ones breaks the law or is pulled over, or at border crossings.

[Swordsmyth]

No? Immigrants are easy to spot without constantly saying, 'Show me your papers'?
If you control the entry points properly you will need little internal enforcement.

100% effectiveness is not required.

[TheCount]

In general, nations have risens out of tongues, because culture and history is that deep ingrained in the human psyche, starting from birth.

Ridiculous. The opposite is true. Tongues have risen out of nations; as nations arose and grew more powerful, the number of languages has decreased because those nations enforced their language and culture upon the people of that area. In some cases, such as Korea, a new language was created by the state itself after the state already existed. If what you say were true, such policies and practices would never have been necessary.



How ever, without some level of FORCE, no state exists. However, with no state, there IS anarchy. With no state, the people CRY for a king. EVERY TIME.

Go ahead and cry, then.

[UWDude]

Ridiculous. The opposite is true. Tongues have risen out of nations;

Tell me how tongues rose out of nations, when tongues came tens of thousands of years before nations.
Explain that one, please.
the forward pharyngeal is evolutionary. Around way before laws and kings and history itself.



Go ahead and cry, then.

They always get a king, too.

[acptulsa]

Tell me how tongues rose out of nations, when tongues came tens of thousands of years before nations.
Explain that one, please.
the forward pharyngeal is evolutionary. Around way before laws and kings and history itself.

Are you telling us whether or not there were monarchies "before history itself"?

My God. You were right. You're one hell of a lot older than I thought.

[TheCount]

Tell me how tongues rose out of nations, when tongues came tens of thousands of years before nations.

You are attempting to confuse the concept of language with individual languages.



They always get a king, too.

Never the one that they cried for.

[Swordsmyth]

You are attempting to confuse the concept of language with individual languages.
You can't have one without the other.





Never the one that they cried for.
That isn't true.