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Anti Federalist
02-17-2019, 08:01 PM
No relief in sight for taxpayers denied deductions for state and local taxes

https://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/ap_news/washington/no-relief-in-sight-for-taxpayers-denied-deductions-for-state/article_14c4b72e-00d7-5e1c-8630-19cda8b8bb38.html

By Jim Puzzanghera Los Angeles Times (TNS) Feb 16, 2019

WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump again indicated this week that he might be open to revisiting the new limit on state and local tax deductions that hits many middle-income residents hard in California and other high-tax, Democratic states.

Even so, don’t count on any changes soon to the Republican tax law that went into effect last year.

Legislative and political realities mean the $10,000 cap is unlikely to be scrapped or increased until after the 2020 elections at the earliest.

Although opposition to the cap is widely believed to have helped defeat Republican House members in California, New York and New Jersey last November, a key Senate Republican is adamantly opposed to a change. And increasing or eliminating the cap probably wouldn’t help get those seats back.

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, a Democrat and leader of the fight against the cap, this month called the new tax policy “an economic civil war that helps red states at the expense of blue states.”

Cuomo met with Trump at the White House Tuesday to discuss the matter.

“I told the president myself today: SALT repeal is hurting us. And if you hurt New York, you’re harming the economic engine of the nation,” Cuomo tweeted afterward.

He said that Trump indicated he was open to making changes, similar to something the president had said last week during a meeting with newspaper reporters.

Judd Deere, deputy White House press secretary, said Trump listened to Cuomo’s concerns.

“The president reiterated the negative impact that high taxes in states like New York have on hardworking families and job creators,” Deere said.

Trump’s top economic adviser, Larry Kudlow, said Thursday that he would meet with Cuomo and his staff soon to discuss possible solutions.

“They have some ideas to kick around. We might have some ideas to kick around,” Kudlow said. “I want to be deliberately vague, because vague is all we have. We’ll see.”

Lawmakers and officials from states most affected by the cap are pushing to scrap it after arguing strongly during the debate over the Republican tax bill in 2017 that their residents were being unfairly targeted because they tend to vote for Democrats.

Of the top 10 states for deductions for state and local taxes, known as SALT, Trump carried only three in the 2016 election.

“Capping the SALT deduction was a direct hit on my constituents and my state,” Rep. Mike Thompson, D-Calif., a senior member of the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee, said this week. “We must have relief in this area, whether it’s changing the cap in some way or something else.”

But the path to changes is filled with severe obstacles.

The 2017 tax law cut the corporate tax rate and reduced personal rates across the board.

Republicans argue that the state and local tax deduction is mostly used by the wealthy and is unfair to residents of lower-tax states. Capping the deduction helped simplify the tax code and make it more equitable, they said.

What’s more, the rules adopted by the new House Democratic majority mean they would have to raise hundreds of billions of dollars elsewhere to make up for the tax revenue lost by reinstating the deduction. That would increase Republican opposition.

Sen. Charles E. Grassley, R-Iowa, who chairs the committee that would consider a revision, said this week that he’s not open to raising or eliminating the cap.

“Everybody but the president that’s bringing this up are the very same people that complained that this tax bill … was something for the very wealthy and they want to turn around and give the 1 percent of the people that are affected by the state and local tax deduction (the ability to) pay less taxes,” said Grassley, chairman of the Senate Finance Committee. “It’s intellectually dishonest.”

An analysis by the left-leaning Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy found that nearly two-thirds of the benefit of repealing the cap would go to the top 1 percent of taxpayers.

But even though the wealthy reap the most benefits, many of the people affected by the new cap in high-cost, high-tax states are middle-income earners.

About 6.1 million California residents filed for the deduction in 2015, reducing their federal taxable income by $18,438 on average, according to the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center. Only New York and Connecticut had a higher average deduction.

There have been stories about angry taxpayers, many of whom find that they may owe money to the IRS or that their refunds are smaller than expected because of the various changes, including the elimination of personal exemptions and other deductions, and new withholding tables put in place last year.

The limit on state and local tax deductions was highly unpopular in California, New York and New Jersey. In last fall’s elections, Democrats took control of the House in part because they won a combined 14 seats in those states that had been held by Republicans.

Rep. Kevin Brady, R-Texas, a key player in the Republican tax push, still opposes restoring the full deduction and downplayed the party’s election losses.

“I think frankly that the losses on the Republican side would have been much stronger without the tax reform,” he said this week, arguing the tax cuts created a stronger economy that helped keep voter dissatisfaction down.

House Democrats have proposed legislation to fully restore the deduction. But on top of strong opposition from Senate Republicans and Trump, there’s another problem with the bill.

Unlike Republicans, who passed the tax cut legislation even though it was projected to increase the federal budget deficit by $1.5 trillion over a decade, Democrats have a rule that any lost revenue must be offset.

To offset the cost of the bill, all the changes to the individual tax code, including the deduction limit on state and local taxes, expire after 2025. That sets up a future fight over extending the changes, similar to the battle in 2012 over extending the temporary tax cuts put in place by President George W. Bush.

For now, though, the focus is on the state and local tax deduction. And the so-called pay-as-you-go rule means that Democrats must find new revenue to offset the estimated $88 billion annual cost of restoring the deduction.

Sponsors of the legislation want to do that by raising the top individual tax bracket back up to 39.6 percent, where it stood for years before the Republican tax bill lowered it to 37 percent. Such a change would increase Republican opposition to addressing the state and local deduction limit.

Raising taxes on the wealthiest Americans has become a new rallying cry of some liberals. They include Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., the presidential candidate who wants to enact a wealth tax on people with more than $50 million in assets, and freshman Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., who has floated the idea of a top rate of as much as 70 percent for income above $10 million.

Krugminator2
02-17-2019, 08:13 PM
I have never understood the SALT deduction. You incentivize higher taxes at the local level. There should be a cost associated with living in a blue state that isn't subsidized by everyone else.

The people who are complaining about this wanted big government. They should bear the cost of big government.

enhanced_deficit
02-17-2019, 08:21 PM
To be devil's advo, do these lower/middle classers create any jobs like the top beneficiaries of America-First MAGA tax-cuts do?

https://content.newsinc.com/jpg/52/31497427/44817959.jpg



Rest the case.

Anti Federalist
02-17-2019, 08:32 PM
I have never understood the SALT deduction. You incentivize higher taxes at the local level. There should be a cost associated with living in a blue state that isn't subsidized by everyone else.

The people who are complaining about this wanted big government. They should bear the cost of big government.

I agree 100%

angelatc
02-17-2019, 08:52 PM
I have never understood the SALT deduction. You incentivize higher taxes at the local level. There should be a cost associated with living in a blue state that isn't subsidized by everyone else.

The people who are complaining about this wanted big government. They should bear the cost of big government.

Yep.


“Everybody but the president that’s bringing this up are the very same people that complained that this tax bill … was something for the very wealthy and they want to turn around and give the 1 percent of the people that are affected by the state and local tax deduction (the ability to) pay less taxes,” said Grassley, chairman of the Senate Finance Committee. “It’s intellectually dishonest.”

An analysis by the left-leaning Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy found that nearly two-thirds of the benefit of repealing the cap would go to the top 1 percent of taxpayers.

oyarde
02-17-2019, 09:17 PM
Slackers need to get busy and pay . LOL

specsaregood
02-17-2019, 10:27 PM
Yep.


“Everybody but the president that’s bringing this up are the very same people that complained that this tax bill … was something for the very wealthy and they want to turn around and give the 1 percent of the people that are affected by the state and local tax deduction (the ability to) pay less taxes,” said Grassley, chairman of the Senate Finance Committee. “It’s intellectually dishonest.”

An analysis by the left-leaning Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy found that nearly two-thirds of the benefit of repealing the cap would go to the top 1 percent of taxpayers.


They are just upset because all those 1% people now have a big reason to leave their high tax states.

euphemia
02-17-2019, 10:40 PM
New York has lost a million people since 2010. They stand to lose at least on seat in the House after the 2020 Census results are in.

timosman
02-17-2019, 10:52 PM
New York has lost a million people since 2010. They stand to lose at least on seat in the House after the 2020 Census results are in.

Ocasio may lose her district after the new borders are drawn.

Matt Collins
02-17-2019, 11:32 PM
New York has lost a million people since 2010. They stand to lose at least on seat in the House after the 2020 Census results are in.
Their assclown Governor says that FL is stealing NY's population:

https://hotair.com/archives/2019/02/12/new-york-governor-florida-stealing-population/?fbclid=IwAR2hi7YbqfeHF4DMwoHUaTGzzv9P88YMyAFKbDT3 ERcWxgSVX7wyqyaFqtg



The bad thing is that many of these people leaving NY come down here to FL and continue to vote for the same types of politicians that they did back in NY.

Pauls' Revere
02-18-2019, 12:52 AM
Their assclown Governor says that FL is stealing NY's population:

https://hotair.com/archives/2019/02/12/new-york-governor-florida-stealing-population/?fbclid=IwAR2hi7YbqfeHF4DMwoHUaTGzzv9P88YMyAFKbDT3 ERcWxgSVX7wyqyaFqtg



The bad thing is that many of these people leaving NY come down here to FL and continue to vote for the same types of politicians that they did back in NY.

Californians do the same thing wherever they go. They Cali fornicate wherever they transplant themselves. Is there a term for NewYorkers that do this?

ILUVRP
02-18-2019, 08:33 AM
To be devil's advo, do these lower/middle classers create any jobs like the top beneficiaries of America-First MAGA tax-cuts do?

https://content.newsinc.com/jpg/52/31497427/44817959.jpg



Rest the case.

i would say yes as the lower/middle class are the ones buying the goods that are made , without them buying there would be no need for the top beneficiaries as the top bennies buy very little ( they have everything they need , they buy things they want not what they need ) give the poor/mc more money thru lower taxes and they will spend every dime ,

Superfluous Man
02-18-2019, 09:57 AM
Would the people demanding higher SALT deductions be just as happy with another across-the-board reduction in tax rates that would decrease the amount high-income residents in those states are paying by the same amount as those SALT deductions would?

This is the kind of counter-proposal that should be offered.

Make them either say no, and then have to shut up after proving their dishonesty, or yes, and then put Republicans in a position to prove they're courageous enough to take them up on that offer to cut taxes some more.

Superfluous Man
02-18-2019, 09:58 AM
i would say yes as the lower/middle class are the ones buying the goods that are made , without them buying there would be no need for the top beneficiaries as the top bennies buy very little ( they have everything they need , they buy things they want not what they need ) give the poor/mc more money thru lower taxes and they will spend every dime ,

That sounds an awful lot like the anti-supply side arguments that I remember hearing the proponents of the Obama stimulus making.

devil21
02-18-2019, 11:11 AM
Their assclown Governor says that FL is stealing NY's population:

https://hotair.com/archives/2019/02/12/new-york-governor-florida-stealing-population/?fbclid=IwAR2hi7YbqfeHF4DMwoHUaTGzzv9P88YMyAFKbDT3 ERcWxgSVX7wyqyaFqtg



The bad thing is that many of these people leaving NY come down here to FL and continue to vote for the same types of politicians that they did back in NY.

I know some upstate NYers that are moving to FL. They're evangelical types so I don't know if they'd vote for the same types of pols, but they are moving. It is a thing.

Matt Collins
02-18-2019, 11:14 AM
I know some upstate NYers that are moving to FL. Most people from up state NY are decent people (although many of them still vote for bad politicians).

Anti Federalist
02-18-2019, 11:14 AM
Californians do the same thing wherever they go. They Cali fornicate wherever they transplant themselves. Is there a term for NewYorkers that do this?

Massachusetts people do the same thing.

We call them Massholes.

The people getting invaded in the Carolinas call the NY-NJ-CT people "Half Backs"...they move to South Florida, don't like it there and move "half back".

They also call them God Damn Yankees.

ILUVRP
02-18-2019, 02:36 PM
i guess you did not understand what i wrote , supply side economics is lowering taxes and decreasing regulations , i said lowering taxes on the middle/lower class will instill much more buying by those , if you give a tax cut to the very rich i guess they will run out and buy a new pair of tennis shoes or new tires for their car , even a new car .

Superfluous Man
02-18-2019, 02:42 PM
i guess you did not understand what i wrote , supply side economics is lowering taxes and decreasing regulations , i said lowering taxes on the middle/lower class will instill much more buying by those , if you give a tax cut to the very rich i guess they will run out and buy a new pair of tennis shoes or new tires for their car , even a new car .

I think I did understand what you wrote, especially since you just explained it again, and it's exactly what I thought.

But I don't think you understand the whole point of supply side economics. What you're talking about is demand-side economics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demand-side_economics).

High-income earners and corporations do a lot with their money besides just buying retail items like you're describing.

Also, as it is, a lot more money can be returned to the control of the private sector by cutting taxes for the rich than can be by cutting taxes for the middle and lower classes, simply because the rich are paying a much greater proportion of taxes.

ILUVRP
02-18-2019, 03:04 PM
lets just raise the taxes on the poor/middle class ( those that pay taxes ) 50% and cut the taxes on the top 20% by 50% and then we would see the economy boom because the top 20% would pour the money back by hiring and spending .

Superfluous Man
02-18-2019, 03:09 PM
lets just raise the taxes on the poor/middle class ( those that pay taxes ) 50% and cut the taxes on the top 20% by 50% and then we would see the economy boom because the top 20% would pour the money back by hiring and spending .

Yes. The economy would boom, if for no other reason, because the total amount of the cuts would far outweigh the increases. Even the poor and middle class would reap gains from the added private-sector economic activity that would outweigh the pretty small additional amounts they'd be paying in taxes.

But better yet, cut everyone's taxes. And in order to do that, since it's the rich who pay the great majority of the taxes, theirs would have to get cut more than everyone else's. We simply can't have significant tax cuts without significantly cutting taxes for the rich.

Side note: Does your shift-key not work or something?

ILUVRP
02-18-2019, 03:16 PM
i am 81 yrs old and shiftless , but i do remember how great this country used to be .

Matt Collins
02-18-2019, 03:34 PM
Massachusetts people do the same thing.

We call them Massholes.

The people getting invaded in the Carolinas call the NY-NJ-CT people "Half Backs"...they move to South Florida, don't like it there and move "half back".

They also call them God Damn Yankees.


The word I use is "locusts"