Government "Helping" Paradise CA Fire Victims By Pushing Them Off Land

[angelatc]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/06/paradise-wildfire-california-fema

Local officials, at risk of losing Fema funding, decreed that residents may not live on property that hasn’t been cleared of debris


Survivors of a wildfire that obliterated an entire California town have been told they cannot continue to camp on their burnt-out lots and must leave.

Officials in Paradise, which was swept by a blaze that killed at least 86 in November, passed an ordinance on Monday that will make it illegal for residents to live on property that hasn’t been cleared of burned debris. Crews began cleaning up the remnants of more than 14,000 destroyed homes last week, and the process could take at least a year.

More than 100 residents who returned to the town in December and January will have to relocate.

“If there was any other place to go, we would be there,” said Anastasia Skinner, a mother of four. After their home burnt down, she bought an RV with her husband on the understanding that they would be able to continue to live in Paradise.

“They said we could come back – that’s why we bought the RV. Now we have to spend more money we don’t have,” Skinner said. “I didn’t think it was possible for them to kick us off our own land.” (It can't happen here)

The Federal Emergency Management Agency (Fema) recently warned the town that if it allowed people to live on properties that had not been cleared of debris and hazardous material it could lose the $1.7bn allocated toward cleanup costs. Fema said its decision to fund the cleanup was based on a warning from the Butte county health department over the potential for widespread toxic exposures and threats to public health.

“It was a terrible position to be put in,” said Jody Jones, the town’s mayor. “We can’t give up billions of dollars in cleanup money or our town will look like a war zone for 20 years.”

At a public meeting on Monday, frustrated and sometimes teary-eyed residents questioned and criticized town leadership about the plan. Some said they would refuse to leave, and would face fines.

The mayor said the town was not trying to criminalize people for living on their own properties, and is working to find a place for residents to take their RVs and trailers. It hopes to prioritize cleaning their lots first so they can return as quickly as possible. The town’s police chief, Eric Reinbold, said his department has no plans to participate in enforcement related to the new ordinance. (Yeah, that's totally believable)

Paradise had no choice, said councilman Michael Zuccolillo. “I felt like we had a financial gun to our heads.”

About 90% of Paradise homes were lost, and many residents have struggled to find affordable options in a county that had an extremely limited housing supply even before the fire. Chico, the closest city to Paradise, had the top real estate market in the country in December in terms of interested buyers, according to Realtor.com.

Late last month, the Red Cross announced it would close its last remaining emergency shelter at the Chico fairgrounds, which had been open since the blaze began.

Cassandra Walling, a lifelong Paradise resident who lost her home and business in the fire, said she was staying in a trailer on her property while she waits for her new home, provided by Fema, to be completed.

“I’m staying because it’s all I’ve known my entire life,” she said.

[Stratovarious]

Right, and then I've read that 'clearing' debris can mean Jail ?
Bundys' or someone like that , I'd have to look it up, cause I think someone
was prosecuted or at least indicted for creating a firebreak.......
Any excuse for 'show of force' by our govt.

Edit;

The Hammond Story: Oregon;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammond_arson_case
If everything in this story, just as disturbing as the govt is the Hammonds
themselves, I have no idea who to believe, but I sure don't trust our
government .

[sparebulb]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/06/paradise-wildfire-california-fema

Local officials, at risk of losing Fema funding, decreed that residents may not live on property that hasn’t been cleared of debris

So, the authorities are mandating what people can do with their persons and property in the name of public health.

Ordinarily, I would assume that you would agree with this.

For the health and safety of the "heard".

Not at all different from your beloved "vaccines".

[PAF]

Private Property is so over-rated, it’s the new en Vogue. Just ask todays “liberty” folks.

[angelatc]

So, the authorities are mandating what people can do with their persons and property in the name of public health.

Ordinarily, I would assume that you would agree with this.

For the health and safety of the "heard".

Not at all different from your beloved "vaccines".

It's "herd," Einstein.

'Nuff said.

[Brian4Liberty]

Take money from the Feds, and you agree to put on the shackles. That’s how socialism works.

[donnay]

2030 Agenda. It was set up originally as Agenda 21. We need to get out of the UN. I hope Trump will do it soon.

[angelatc]

Take money from the Feds, and you agree to put on the shackles. That’s how socialism works.

Take your own money back from the Feds, and you agree ......

[nobody's_hero]

Well this is California, they're probably happy the government is pushing them around.


Where's that graph of the proposed high speed rail? I don't want to be a conspiracy nut but that s*#$ lined up perfectly with the fires. I don't think this is about federal funding.

[sparebulb]

It's "herd," Einstein.

'Nuff said.

Yes, sorry about the misspelling.

But you figured it out using your phonics, so we are all up to speed now.

Your ""Nuff said" seems to indicate that you won't discuss "common sense" public health policy.

That's the problem when you have a blind-spot with regard to personal freedoms. You don't get to pick and choose which aspect of tyranny that you receive. You get the full spectrum of tyranny.

If you are ok with that mandatory needle in your arm today, don't be surprised with getting kicked off your property tomorrow.

In for a penny, in for a pound.

[spudea]

So they are relying on the government to clear the debree then? If they clear it themselves or hire workers to help clear it they could have it done within days, and then they do not have to worry about this city ordinance.

Also it's not entirely private property if they pay property taxes, effectively they are leasing the land from the local incorporated municipality. Delusional people still think it's the 18th century. There's very little actual private land ownership these days and it's all in the hands of the wealthy that acquired it long time ago.

[specsaregood]

If you are ok with that mandatory needle in your arm today, don't be surprised with getting kicked off your property tomorrow.

In for a penny, in for a pound.

AngelaTC has never supported or called for mandatory shots/vaccines. In fact, she has often predicted that the anti-vaccine people would cause mandatory shots to be enforced by govt -- once again, something she is against. But this has been pointed out a great many times on this forum; so I don't know why I am bothering...

[Stratovarious]

...has often predicted that the anti-vaccine people would cause mandatory shots to be enforced by govt -- once again, something she is against. But this has been pointed out a great many times on this forum; so I don't know why I am bothering...

The issue is constantly re directed and characterized as anti vaxxers, the
common issue with vaccines though, is Mandates, no one I know will accept
mandates, but everyone I know is favorable to some vaccines.
Are those that are against mandates going to be the cause of mandates?

[sparebulb]

AngelaTC has never supported or called for mandatory shots/vaccines. In fact, she has often predicted that the anti-vaccine people would cause mandatory shots to be enforced by govt -- once again, something she is against. But this has been pointed out a great many times on this forum; so I don't know why I am bothering...

We know damn well what she wants regarding vaccines.

[specsaregood]

We know damn well what she wants regarding vaccines.

When you misstate her actual position, you decrease your legitimacy. Its funny how some of you can't bend your mind around somebody thinking that vaccines are good for people and the community overall, yet doesn't want to force them on others for their own good.

[Swordsmyth]

When you misstate her actual position, you decrease your legitimacy. Its funny how some of you can't bend your mind around somebody thinking that vaccines are good for people and the community overall, yet doesn't want to force them on others for their own good.
No, she wants to force them on us for the good of "the herd".

[specsaregood]

No, she wants to force them on us for the good of "the herd".

I thought better of you. Find one place where AngelaTC has ever advocated forcing vaccines on anybody. Unless her position has recently changed, I don't think you will find it. If not, you should retract your statement.

[Swordsmyth]

I thought better of you. Find one place where AngelaTC has ever advocated forcing vaccines on anybody. Unless her position has recently changed, I don't think you will find it. If not, you should retract your statement.
Read her new signature:


Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.


refusal to vaccinate violates the nonaggression principle




I know math is super hard, so again, for the 1000th time - it matters because:

1. No vaccine is 100% effective.
2. A certain Subset of the population can't be vaccinated and therefore depends on the community around it to be not carrying disease.
3. Therefore, Community immunity has to reach a certain level to stop the spread disease.

[specsaregood]

Read her new signature:

Nothing there states anything about mandating vaccines, in fact it is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE, she advocates for the completely libertarian position. Hell, even anarchists could endorse her approach.

[Stratovarious]

Nothing there states anything about mandating vaccines, in fact it is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE, she advocates for the completely libertarian position. Hell, even anarchists could endorse her approach.
As I already mentioned and you ignored; The issue is not vaccines, it is MANDATES, it keeps getting re
directed and the rhetoric re branded as you just did , see what you did there.......
:frog:

[Swordsmyth]

Nothing there states anything about mandating vaccines, in fact it is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE, she advocates for the completely libertarian position. Hell, even anarchists could endorse her approach.
How does saying that a refusal to vaccinate is a NAP violation not call for forced vaccination?
How does endorsing demonization and shutting down debate not lay the basis for forced vaccination?
How does stating that a certain (high) percentage of people need to be vaccinated in order to protect those who can't be vaccinated not lay the basis for forced vaccination?

If Angela states that she doesn't want forced vaccination again after she has taken those positions I will accept it but it will mean that she wants things that are in opposition to eachother.

[specsaregood]

As I already mentioned and you ignored; The issue is not vaccines, it is MANDATES, it keeps getting re
directed and the rhetoric re branded as you just did , see what you did there.......
:frog:

I seriously have no clue what were trying to say; so I chose to ignore it.

[specsaregood]

How does saying that a refusal to vaccinate is a NAP violation not call for forced vaccination?
How does endorsing demonization and shutting down debate not lay the basis for forced vaccination?
How does stating that a certain (high) percentage of people need to be vaccinated in order to protect those who can't be vaccinated not lay the basis for forced vaccination?

If Angela states that she doesn't want forced vaccination again after she has taken those positions I will accept it but it will mean that she wants things that are in opposition to eachother.

She has had those positions for years; they are not in opposition to each other. If anything they are the natural internal conflict of actually holding libertarian beliefs.

[Swordsmyth]

She has had those positions for years; they are not in opposition to each other. If anything they are the natural internal conflict of actually holding libertarian beliefs.
She has said that refusing to vaccinate is a NAP violation for years?

That is the natural internal conflict of actually holding libertarian beliefs?

[Stratovarious]

I seriously have no clue what were trying to say; so I chose to ignore it.



''The issue is constantly re directed and characterized as anti vaxxers, the
common issue with vaccines though, is Mandates, no one I know will accept
mandates, but everyone I know is favorable to some vaccines.
Are those that are against mandates going to be the cause of mandates? '' stratovarious

Seriously. lmao...........what on earth do you typically read, bubble gum wrappers?
:frog:

[specsaregood]

''The issue is constantly re directed and characterized as anti vaxxers, the
common issue with vaccines though, is Mandates, no one I know will accept
mandates, but everyone I know is favorable to some vaccines.
Are those that are against mandates going to be the cause of mandates? '' stratovarious

Seriously. lmao...........what on earth do you typically read, bubble gum wrappers?
:frog:

I read code, data, documentation, and blather on rpfs 18 hours a day. As to your "question", No is my answer.

[Stratovarious]

I read code, data, documentation, and blather on rpfs 18 hours a day. As to your "question", No is my answer.

Thank you for that , Bless your heart, pure gold...........:frog:

[Swordsmyth]

Let's stop derailing this thread now.

[specsaregood]

Thank you for that , Bless your heart, pure gold...........:frog:

Well in my old age, I tend to concentrate more on the signal and ignore the noise. So if I don't respond to one of your posts in the future, don't feel too bad.

[devil21]

2030 Agenda. It was set up originally as Agenda 21. We need to get out of the UN. I hope Trump will do it soon.

:snort: Come on, stop with Hope and Change v.2016 stuff. What do you think all of the sideshows are for? Keep you wrapped up in soap opera drama while A21/2030 rolls right along.

[Origanalist]

Let's stop derailing this thread now.

Too late.

[Anti Federalist]

“They said we could come back – that’s why we bought the RV. Now we have to spend more money we don’t have,” Skinner said. “I didn’t think it was possible for them to kick us off our own land.” (It can't happen here)

Not your land, Skinner.

Never was.

You just rent it from government.

That said, it's damn shame we can't muster any troops anymore.

I'd love to see 1000 liberty folks show up with guns and defy local and state cops to arrest people for living in campers on their own property while they try to rebuild from a disaster.

[Brian4Liberty]

“It was a terrible position to be put in,” said Jody Jones, the town’s mayor. “We can’t give up billions of dollars in cleanup money or our town will look like a war zone for 20 years.”

Unfortunately, in many communities, mine included, the first response by local government officials is to say that they will try to get Federal dollars to fix the problem, if not, there’s nothing they can do.

[angelatc]

Unfortunately, in many communities, mine included, the first response by local government officials is to say that they will try to get Federal dollars to fix the problem, if not, there’s nothing they can do.

Ok, lets assume these are half-acre lots. Going to assume there's not a lot of deep rooted brush that needs cleared, because there was a fire, and the land was already cleared and occupied when the fire came through.

So pretend this is your lot. You have a chainsaw, and can rent a pickup truck for $50 a day. How long would it take you to clear the lot of debris?

What am I missing here - why is this going to take billions of dollars in clean-up money?

[angelatc]

Not your land, Skinner.

Never was.

You just rent it from government.

That said, it's damn shame we can't muster any troops anymore.

I'd love to see 1000 liberty folks show up with guns and defy local and state cops to arrest people for living in campers on their own property while they try to rebuild from a disaster.

You'd have to find a batch of CA residents who didn't want to behave like model citizens though.

[Brian4Liberty]

Ok, lets assume these are half-acre lots. Going to assume there's not a lot of deep rooted brush that needs cleared, because there was a fire, and the land was already cleared and occupied when the fire came through.

So pretend this is your lot. You have a chainsaw, and can rent a pickup truck for $50 a day. How long would it take you to clear the lot of debris?

What am I missing here - why is this going to take billions of dollars in clean-up money?

Because government is doing it for free?


On a more serious note, they want to clear the ash from the homes, which may contain some chemicals and/or asbestos, so they have to wear special hazmat protective gear, and specially bag it up and dispose of it. All very expensive. And then everyone exposed to said ash will be able to file claims that it effected their health in the future.

[Kilrain]

Ok, lets assume these are half-acre lots. Going to assume there's not a lot of deep rooted brush that needs cleared, because there was a fire, and the land was already cleared and occupied when the fire came through.

So pretend this is your lot. You have a chainsaw, and can rent a pickup truck for $50 a day. How long would it take you to clear the lot of debris?


Clearing our half-acre lot of hundreds of tons of burned and twisted debris by hand, having to cut it into manageable pieces with a chainsaw, would take longer than I care to imagine. Six months? A year? And that would mean going that long without an income. If I had to do it, it would be faster and make more financial sense to earn an income and pay for a crew to do it with heavy equipment.

But regardless, you shouldn't have to worry about it. House burns down, homeowners insurance kicks in, meaning the insurance company pays for a place to stay while also footing the bill for replacing the house. And if you don't have insurance, you should be SOL. I'm not all that sorry for people who complain about government regs while also expecting the government to give them a new house because they didn't have insurance, which is what I assume the person in the OP is doing.


Cassandra Walling, a lifelong Paradise resident who lost her home and business in the fire, said she was staying in a trailer on her property while she waits for her new home, provided by Fema, to be completed.

[Occam's Banana]

WARNING: Private property contains materials known to the state of California to cause cancer or birth defects.

[Origanalist]

Because government is doing it for free?


On a more serious note, they want to clear the ash from the homes, which may contain some chemicals and/or asbestos, so they have to wear special hazmat protective gear, and specially bag it up and dispose of it. All very expensive. And then everyone exposed to said ash will be able to file claims that it effected their health in the future.

Yep, this same plague infests the remodel industry. If you're smart and you can you avoid the parasites, although it's not always possible.

[Stratovarious]

WARNING: Private property contains materials known to the state of California to cause cancer or birth defects.

Ca classifies saw dust as a carcinogen , the warning is modeling planes. Ca is as lost as France and the UK, Total losses.

[devil21]

Clearing our half-acre lot of hundreds of tons of burned and twisted debris by hand, having to cut it into manageable pieces with a chainsaw, would take longer than I care to imagine. Six months? A year? And that would mean going that long without an income. If I had to do it, it would be faster and make more financial sense to earn an income and pay for a crew to do it with heavy equipment.

But regardless, you shouldn't have to worry about it. House burns down, homeowners insurance kicks in, meaning the insurance company pays for a place to stay while also footing the bill for replacing the house. And if you don't have insurance, you should be SOL. I'm not all that sorry for people who complain about government regs while also expecting the government to give them a new house because they didn't have insurance, which is what I assume the person in the OP is doing.

IDK, most of the pics I've seen had literally houses burned to complete ash down to the foundations. Only things standing were chimneys and foundations. Rent some Bobcats and some dumpsters and have it cleared in weeks, not months or years.

[Suzanimal]

WARNING: Private property contains materials known to the state of California to cause cancer or birth defects.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Occam's Banana again.


Ca classifies saw dust as a carcinogen , the warning is modeling planes. Ca is as lost as France and the UK, Total losses.

It cracks me up to see reviews on Amazon and people in a panic because it allegedly causes cancer:eek: according to California, lol.

[angelatc]

IDK, most of the pics I've seen had literally houses burned to complete ash down to the foundations. Only things standing were chimneys and foundations. Rent some Bobcats and some dumpsters and have it cleared in weeks, not months or years.
That's what I was thinking. I clear my own lot, and I'm done on a month.