Donald Trump, Dictator

[PAF]

Pot...kettle...black...
Donald Trump, Dictator

It is supremely ironic. To respond to the dictatorial mindset and policies of Venezuelan ruler Nicolas Maduro, President Trump has adopted his own dictatorial mindset and policies. Trump obviously believes that the way to fight foreign dictatorship is by adopting dictatorship here at home.

Consider Trump’s actions with respect to Citgo, the Houston-based refining firm that is owned by the Venezuelan government. It is the eighth-largest US refiner and Venezuela’s top foreign asset.

To help effect a regime-change operation in Venezuela, Trump simply issued an order that prohibits Citgo from sending any money to the Venezuela government. He’s also ordering that Citgo’s revenues be transferred to Juan Guaidó, the head of the Venezuelan congress, who is claiming that he’s the rightful president of Venezuela, notwithstanding the undisputed fact that no one has ever elected him president.

We Americans have become so accustomed to the imposition of sanctions on people in foreign countries by US presidents that it’s easy to be blasé about Trump’s actions. But actually his behavior is astounding, especially in that it reflects perfectly the same dictatorial mindset and policies that characterize Maduro.

First of all, Venezuela and the United States are not at war. Oh, sure, there is there standard Cold War or empire-like verbiage that refers to rivals, adversaries, hegemons, communism, socialism, Russia, China, and Cuba, but indulging in empire-speak or Cold War bugaboos does not rise to the level of war. In an extraordinary action taken during peacetime, Trump has seized and confiscated the assets of a foreign regime and is transferring them to someone else.

Second, Trump didn’t go to Congress to secure permission to seize and transfer Citgo’s revenue. That’s ordinarily what rulers in a representative democracy are expected to do. Recall what they taught us in our high-school civics classes: Congress enacts the laws and the president enforces the laws. Here, there was no law enacted by Congress authorizing Trump to seize and transfer Citgo’s revenue. He just unilaterally issued an order authorizing US officials to take control over Venezuela’s money.

That’s precisely how dictators behave. They don’t need no stinking legislature. They don’t have time to jack with elected representatives. They know what’s best for the country. They have to do what is necessary. Fast.

One of the purest manifestations of this phenomenon took place when military Gen. Augusto Pinochet took the reins of power in Chile after the US-supported regime-change operation in that country. Pinochet’s regime was a classic military dictatorship. He didn’t bother with seeking permission from the Chilean congress to round up some 50,000 people and torture, rape, or kill them. He just issued orders to his national-security state goons to do those dirty deeds. His orders were called “decree laws.” That’s because his decrees had the force of law. That is what dictatorship is all about — the power of the ruler, whether democratically elected or not, to issue decree laws to seize people’s property or to arrest, incarcerate, torture, rape, or kill them.

That is precisely what Trump’s order seizing Citgo’s revenue is — a decree law. Trump issues the decree and it instantly becomes the law. Everyone is expected to comply with it. That is classic dictatorship.

Just think: An American president adopting dictatorial mindsets and policies to oppose the dictatorial mindsets and policies of a foreign dictator. Trump obviously believes that his decree laws are making America great again. Ironically, that’s what Maduro also believes about his decree laws.


http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2019/february/05/donald-trump-dictator/

[spudea]

It's not "unilateral" or "decreed law". Congress passed laws authorizing the executive branch to impose sanctions. The author deliberately misrepresents this info for his intended audience, because he just wants to be an edgy opposition anarchist.

[PAF]

It's not "unilateral" or "decreed law". Congress passed laws authorizing the executive branch to impose sanctions. The author deliberately misrepresents this info for his intended audience, because he just wants to be an edgy opposition anarchist.


At the stage we’re at now perhaps anarchy is the rightful remedy ;-)

[Superfluous Man]

It's not "unilateral" or "decreed law". Congress passed laws authorizing the executive branch to impose sanctions. The author deliberately misrepresents this info for his intended audience, because he just wants to be an edgy opposition anarchist.

Hornberger says the exact opposite of what you're claiming. Do you have a source.

[dannno]

At the stage we’re at now perhaps anarchy is the rightful remedy ;-)

Putting commie leftists in charge /= anarchy...

[spudea]

Hornberger says the exact opposite of what you're claiming. Do you have a source.

Passed by congress: Venezuela Defense of Human Rights and Civil Society Act of 2014.

The act specifically authorized the president to impose sanctions.

I'm at work, please obtain any further knowledge for yourself on this topic to your own satisfaction.

And I got a neg rep from a different forum member for countering disinfo and stating a fact. wow

[Ender]

Passed by congress: Venezuela Defense of Human Rights and Civil Society Act of 2014.

The act specifically authorized the president to impose sanctions.

I'm at work, please obtain any further knowledge for yourself on this topic to your own satisfaction.

And I got a neg rep from a different forum member for countering disinfo and stating a fact. wow

Seizing Citgo's revenue & deferring them elsewhere is NOT sanctions- it is theft.

And +rep- we don't need to agree on this for me to support you.

[Superfluous Man]

Passed by congress: Venezuela Defense of Human Rights and Civil Society Act of 2014.

The act specifically authorized the president to impose sanctions.

I'm at work, please obtain any further knowledge for yourself on this topic to your own satisfaction.

And I got a neg rep from a different forum member for countering disinfo and stating a fact. wow

I just read that bill. I can see how Trump could interpret it to authorize him to block the transfer of money from Citgo to the Maduro regime. But I can't see how it authorizes him to order them what they positively must do with that money, including the order for them to transfer it to Guaidó.

[Stratovarious]

I just read that bill. I can see how Trump could interpret it to authorize him to block the transfer of money from Citgo to the Maduro regime. But I can't see how it authorizes him to order them what they positively must do with that money, including the order for them to transfer it to Guaidó.
Agreed , and this; ''The act specifically authorized the president to impose sanctions.''
Doesn't sound like powers' to make them (Citgo) send money to 'someone else' .

[dannno]

Seizing Citgo's revenue & deferring them elsewhere is NOT sanctions- it is theft.

And +rep- we don't need to agree on this for me to support you.

Wow, way to argue a point that isn't even being debated..

[angelatc]

Agreed , and this; ''The act specifically authorized the president to impose sanctions.''
Doesn't sound like powers' to make them (Citgo) send money to 'someone else' .

If we recognize a new president, we didn't send it to 'someone else.' We gave the new president his country's checkbook.

[Ender]

If we recognize a new president, we didn't send it to 'someone else.' We gave the new president his country's checkbook.

Which is totally unconstitutional.

[Ender]

Wow, way to argue a point that isn't even being debated..

Reading is your friend. :seenoevil:

[AngryCanadian]

It seems Trump is backtracking majority of all the Mega Promises even the wall. Seems Ann Coulter is right.

[dannno]

Reading is your friend. :seenoevil:

Ya, it's my friend, but clearly not yours.

They are arguing whether congress allowed the President to pass the sanctions or whether he did it without their approval... not whether sanctions are a correct action or not.

[Superfluous Man]

Ya, it's my friend, but clearly not yours.

They are arguing whether congress allowed the President to pass the sanctions or whether he did it without their approval... not whether sanctions are a correct action or not.

Also, whether or not the sanctions Congress authorized include forcing Citgo to give money to Maduro.

I think Hornberger is correct when he says Congress did not authorize that.

[Krugminator2]

This is the kind of whataboutism that makes me post in these Venezuela threads. Donald Trump is nothing like Maduro. Neither was Obama. Neither was any other US president. Jacob Hornberger is a buffoon and a continual to embarrassment to actual libertarians. He is the worst. And of course he is a Salvador Allende apologist and had to get his usual anti-Pinochet rant in.

As far as Trump's actions, all he is doing is making sure Maduro doesn't steal the rightful president's assets. This isn't some crazy foreign intervention. This is what Trump should be doing. This is what a libertarian should support.

And it is worth noting, the Venezuelan government stole billions from US companies. Chavez literally stole US businesses. A US judge already has awarded that the US government seize billions in Citgo's assets and confiscating all the CITGO refineries in the US is apparently on the table to satisfy their debt.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/20/business/energy-environment/conocophillips-venezuela-oil.html

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/08/30/why-venezuelas-citgo-is-in-danger-of-being-seized.html
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/08/30/venezuelas-citgo-refineries-in-the-us-are-at-risk-of-being-seized-and-sold.html

[Stratovarious]

If we recognize a new president, we didn't send it to 'someone else.' We gave the new president his country's checkbook.
He's clearly the irrefutable choice of the people , is he?

[Superfluous Man]

As far as Trump's actions, all he is doing is making sure Maduro doesn't steal the rightful president's assets. This isn't some crazy foreign intervention. This is what Trump should be doing. This is what a libertarian should support.


No, that is definitely not what the US president should be doing. Yes, it is a crazy foreign intervention. Deciding who the "rightful president" of some foreign country is (as if there any earthly regime's reign could ever be "rightful") and making sure that somebody gives them "their" assets (when, of course, these would not be their assets even if they were whatever it is you mean when you say "the rightful president"), is the very essence of foreign interventionism. No, it is not something a libertarian should support.

At any rate, whether you support interventionist foreign policy or not, that doesn't mean that Trump can do this without Congress authorizing it.

[Aratus]

Pot...kettle...black...
Donald Trump, Dictator

It is supremely ironic. To respond to the dictatorial mindset and policies of Venezuelan ruler Nicolas Maduro, President Trump has adopted his own dictatorial mindset and policies. Trump obviously believes that the way to fight foreign dictatorship is by adopting dictatorship here at home.

Consider Trump’s actions with respect to Citgo, the Houston-based refining firm that is owned by the Venezuelan government. It is the eighth-largest US refiner and Venezuela’s top foreign asset.

To help effect a regime-change operation in Venezuela, Trump simply issued an order that prohibits Citgo from sending any money to the Venezuela government. He’s also ordering that Citgo’s revenues be transferred to Juan Guaidó, the head of the Venezuelan congress, who is claiming that he’s the rightful president of Venezuela, notwithstanding the undisputed fact that no one has ever elected him president.

We Americans have become so accustomed to the imposition of sanctions on people in foreign countries by US presidents that it’s easy to be blasé about Trump’s actions. But actually his behavior is astounding, especially in that it reflects perfectly the same dictatorial mindset and policies that characterize Maduro.

First of all, Venezuela and the United States are not at war. Oh, sure, there is there standard Cold War or empire-like verbiage that refers to rivals, adversaries, hegemons, communism, socialism, Russia, China, and Cuba, but indulging in empire-speak or Cold War bugaboos does not rise to the level of war. In an extraordinary action taken during peacetime, Trump has seized and confiscated the assets of a foreign regime and is transferring them to someone else.

Second, Trump didn’t go to Congress to secure permission to seize and transfer Citgo’s revenue. That’s ordinarily what rulers in a representative democracy are expected to do. Recall what they taught us in our high-school civics classes: Congress enacts the laws and the president enforces the laws. Here, there was no law enacted by Congress authorizing Trump to seize and transfer Citgo’s revenue. He just unilaterally issued an order authorizing US officials to take control over Venezuela’s money.

That’s precisely how dictators behave. They don’t need no stinking legislature. They don’t have time to jack with elected representatives. They know what’s best for the country. They have to do what is necessary. Fast.

One of the purest manifestations of this phenomenon took place when military Gen. Augusto Pinochet took the reins of power in Chile after the US-supported regime-change operation in that country. Pinochet’s regime was a classic military dictatorship. He didn’t bother with seeking permission from the Chilean congress to round up some 50,000 people and torture, rape, or kill them. He just issued orders to his national-security state goons to do those dirty deeds. His orders were called “decree laws.” That’s because his decrees had the force of law. That is what dictatorship is all about — the power of the ruler, whether democratically elected or not, to issue decree laws to seize people’s property or to arrest, incarcerate, torture, rape, or kill them.

That is precisely what Trump’s order seizing Citgo’s revenue is — a decree law. Trump issues the decree and it instantly becomes the law. Everyone is expected to comply with it. That is classic dictatorship.

Just think: An American president adopting dictatorial mindsets and policies to oppose the dictatorial mindsets and policies of a foreign dictator. Trump obviously believes that his decree laws are making America great again. Ironically, that’s what Maduro also believes about his decree laws.


http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2019/february/05/donald-trump-dictator/

^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Aratus]

Trump, as in Monsieur DJT.... each time he dreams at night he goes to a place a fascist with a small "f" likes because it is a playpen.

[Ender]

Ya, it's my friend, but clearly not yours.

They are arguing whether congress allowed the President to pass the sanctions or whether he did it without their approval... not whether sanctions are a correct action or not.

And I said what the REAL issue is:
Seizing Citgo's revenue & deferring them elsewhere is NOT sanctions- it is theft.

[Krugminator2]

And I said what the REAL issue is:
Seizing Citgo's revenue & deferring them elsewhere is NOT sanctions- it is theft.

Is it theft? They probably shouldn't be getting any revenue from Citgo. Venezuela just nationalized numerous American and Canadian corporations and they never compensated those companies. Here is what a judge ruled.

U.S. Judge Authorizes Seizure of Venezuela’s Citgo

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-judge-authorizes-seizure-of-venezuelas-citgo-1533853734


“There is a huge amount of judgment coming down the line, and they don’t have the resources to pay.”
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/energy/article/CITGO-13261273.php

[CCTelander]

Is it theft? They probably shouldn't be getting any revenue from Citgo. Venezuela just nationalized numerous American and Canadian corporations and they never compensated those companies. Here is what a judge ruled.

U.S. Judge Authorizes Seizure of Venezuela’s Citgo

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-judge-authorizes-seizure-of-venezuelas-citgo-1533853734


“There is a huge amount of judgment coming down the line, and they don’t have the resources to pay.”
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/energy/article/CITGO-13261273.php


IF assets were being seized in order to satisfy legitimate judgements, all this information would actually be relevant. However, since we all know good and goddamn well that that is not what's going on here, it amounts to nothing more than a red herring.

[Ender]

Is it theft? They probably shouldn't be getting any revenue from Citgo. Venezuela just nationalized numerous American and Canadian corporations and they never compensated those companies. Here is what a judge ruled.

U.S. Judge Authorizes Seizure of Venezuela’s Citgo

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-judge-authorizes-seizure-of-venezuelas-citgo-1533853734


“There is a huge amount of judgment coming down the line, and they don’t have the resources to pay.”
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/energy/article/CITGO-13261273.php

Sounds like the same background for the 1953 Iranian coup. Countries should never be allowed to manage their own resources.

[TheTexan]

He's a great dictator though, the best even.

[heavenlyboy34]

IF assets were being seized in order to satisfy legitimate judgements, all this information would actually be relevant. However, since we all know good and goddamn well that that is not what's going on here, it amounts to nothing more than a red herring.

iknorite? If a guy in a judge costume says something is cool it must be so, ya know? :rolleyes:

[Krugminator2]

iknorite? If a guy in a judge costume says something is cool it must be so, ya know? :rolleyes:

Kind of. Yeah. Hugo Chavez just took dozens of American businesses. You can't just take businesses. What other process should they go through? The World Trade Organization ruled against Venezuela. Then they didn't pay.

At some point you just have to just start taking stuff to make things whole.

[Superfluous Man]

You can't just take businesses.

True.

[Aratus]

Trump often physically and mentally flipflops. Perhaps not as often as Mitt Romney....but his ability to straddle
both sides of a question whilst not being the "bridge of true compromise" that Henry Clay often was... this has
his presidency being schizoid, or having more and more critics over time. He is about to get himself impeached,
again. As in twice. New charge. New trial. In our Senate. Just tossing my opines in, my two cents. The OP can
be correct as to a hypothetical motivation for Trump's actions. An ultimate, long term goal. DJT is no freethinker.

[DamianTV]

At the stage we’re at now perhaps anarchy is the rightful remedy ;-)

A lot of people opt for Anarchy because they feel it is better than what they currently have. Sometimes they are right. Anarchy itself is not a solid permanent solution because it operates like a VACUUM. As soon as the current powers are removed, some other power rushes in, and often, its worse than what existed before. Anarchy is always temporary.

For the record, I think that is the difference between CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE and ANARCHY. Civil Disobedience would be a cop refusing to follow orders to arrest and or kill people that wear MAGA hats, or even asking what just happened. Civil Disobedience is when the US Military is deployed AGAINST the People of the United States, they refuse and instead turn against those issuing the orders and arrest them for WAR CRIMES.

So the word "Republic" comes from two Latin words "Res" and "Publica". Literal translation is "Thing Public", kind of like in spanish they say "Cat Fat" instead of "Fat Cat'. So, the "Thing Public" is really the Greek term for LAW.

The LAW today has been applied unevenly. BLM and ANTIFA have been encouraged for the last year since George Floyd. They have been permitted to BURN BUILDINGS, RIOT, LOOT, and even MURDER. Something like 27 people were KILLED by BLM / ANTIFA. Humans. Humans that committed no crime that would warrant an execution. The few that were arrested were NEVER CHARGED. Probably because they were Agent Provocateurs.

Where the fuck did the BRICKS come from? George Soros?

So if those groups that were not only ALLOWED but ENCOURAGED to RIOT were not held accountable for their destructive behavior, I think we can agree that what allowed them to do so was LAWLESSNESS. IE, ANARCHY. Anarchy was allowed for them.

I do not feel the solution to our current crisis is TOTAL ANARCHY, but fair application of the laws we have on the books, which would be to identify the RIOTERS and prosecute them as prescribed by the Law, with Constitutional Rights recognized.

I do believe the LACK OF LAW is what has caused our RIOTS all summer, and probably much much worse events in the coming months and years.

We DONT NEED NEW LAWS.

The new laws they will propose will only serve to benefit those in power by criminalizing any opposition to the Status Quo. They will be increasingly disparaging with every iteration. If we had a Lawful Republic, then those with power and influence would be held accountable for inciting the RIOTS. Its DOUBLE STANDARDS. Trump calls for a peaceful march on Washington DC, they get infiltrated by ANTIFA and reported as a False Flag, and he is LABELED as an INSURRECTIONIST. Yet Pelosi can get up there and "ask" "WHY ARENT THESE PEOPLE TAKING TO THE STREETS"? Madonna can flat out say (look for a video of it) "I have been thinking an awful lot about BLOWING UP THE WHITE HOUSE", and NOTHING HAPPENS to them. And Trump incites violence?

No, the LAW needs to be applied to Pelosi, Madonna, every traitor in the GOP. Our problem is that we have UNEQUAL DISTRIBUTION OF THE LAW, which truly is ANARCHY. The courts REFUSED to examine evidence of Voter Fraud. The Media announces itself Arbiters of Truth, IE, Ministry of Truth. Congress certifies a Fraudulent Election.

This is a COUP. And ANARCHY is already here and what has enabled the weaponization of the LAW against the people that recognize that what is coming is going to make what is going on today look like a walk in the park. These are already LAWLESS TIMES.

They WANT violence. Dont fall for it.

For the record, I have a sneaking expectation that many State Capitols may be under attack this weekend, and suspect it will be a False Flag. It wont be Trump supporters, but more people that are ALLOWED AND ENCOURAGED then used as an excuse to punish pretty much EVERYONE.