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Swordsmyth
01-17-2019, 05:22 PM
The State Department announced Wednesday it has begun the process of considering allowing U.S. citizens to sue the government of Cuba for property stolen in the mass “nationalization” theft shortly following the Cuban Revolution. U.S. citizens possess this right under the Cuban Liberty and Democratic Solidarity (LIBERTAD) Act of 1996, commonly referred to as the Helms-Burton Act (https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/documents/libertad.pdf). The law also allows American citizens to sue any foreign corporation that conducts business in the United States for profits they have made in using stolen property, threatening corporations like Carnival Cruises (https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2018/06/09/everything-in-cuba-is-stolen-port-owners-warn-tourism/), which inked a deal during the Obama era to use stolen ports in Havana and Santiago de Cuba. Individuals who were not American citizens at the time of the Revolution may also use the law to bring cases to U.S. courts.
No Americans have been allowed to exercise the rights provided by this law because the State Department has suspended it every six months for the past 23 years. In a press release Wednesday, Pompeo suggests the Trump administration may end this limitation.


Pompeo suspended (https://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2019/01/288482.htm) the law for 41 days beginning on February 1, an unprecedented move.
“This extension will permit us to conduct a careful review of the right to bring action under Title III in light of the national interests of the United States and efforts to expedite a transition to democracy in Cuba,” the State Department notes in its release.

More at: https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2019/01/17/pompeo-u-s-allow-americans-sue-cuba-property-stolen-revolution/

oyarde
01-17-2019, 05:39 PM
I will be surprised if any suits are going forward .

Pauls' Revere
01-17-2019, 08:29 PM
Will Native Americans be able to sue the U.S.?

AZJoe
04-18-2019, 08:50 PM
So the way to bring capitalism and free markets to cuba is to ban (via lawsuits) capitalism and free market enterprises from coming to Cuba.
Government - once again brilliant in it idiocy.

AZJoe
04-18-2019, 08:56 PM
Spain wants EU to challenge US policy in Cuba (https://www.apnews.com/9c85f78c0a6045bca4b3dbfcc5484a47)

t the Spanish government is asking the European Union to challenge a U.S. move to allow lawsuits against foreign companies operating in properties seized from Americans in post-revolution Cuba.

The move, announced Tuesday, breaks with two decades of U.S. policy on the island.
Spain, which has large investments in hotels and other tourism-related industries in Cuba, will ask the EU to challenge the decision in the World Trade Organization … Spain was committed to defending its interests on the island.

Businesses from Canada, France and Great Britain among other countries also conduct business in properties nationalized after Fidel Castro took power in 1959

AZJoe
04-18-2019, 09:09 PM
Canada says considering options after U.S. decision on Cuba
(https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-usa-cuba-canada/canada-says-considering-options-after-u-s-decision-on-cuba-idUKKCN1RT1ZC)
Canada is considering its options after a U.S. decision to lift a long-standing ban against ban against U.S. citizens filing lawsuits against foreign companies that use properties nationalized by Cuba ’s government since the 1959 revolution …

“Canada is deeply disappointed with today’s (U.S.) announcement. We will be reviewing all options in response to this U.S. decision,” Chrystia Freeland, minister of foreign affairs, said in a statement.

Freeland said Canada would fully defend the interests of Canadians conducting legitimate trade and investment with Cuba ….

UWDude
04-18-2019, 09:29 PM
Give Israel back to the Arabs.

Zippyjuan
04-19-2019, 11:21 AM
Actually one would not sue Cuba but a company currently using that property. Does this mean that we can sue companies using land seized from Native Americans?

brushfire
04-19-2019, 12:44 PM
Will Native Americans be able to sue the U.S.?

Its my understanding that Native Americans had a much different take on "Property Rights" than we do today.

That being said, I think the USSA had a pretty big role in the slaughter of many Native Americans. The trail of tears comes to mind. Does the welfare they receive now count as reparation?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ4lnDy2xnQ

Danke
04-19-2019, 12:51 PM
...

acptulsa
04-19-2019, 12:59 PM
Actually one would not sue Cuba but a company currently using that property. Does this mean that we can sue companies using land seized from Native Americans?

Got a link? Because I find the notion that this is about suing companies in a full-blown communist country a mite hard to swallow.

Zippyjuan
04-19-2019, 01:19 PM
Got a link? Because I find the notion that this is about suing companies in a full-blown communist country a mite hard to swallow.

As I understand it, you have to be able to prove that you were the owner of the property (residential property is not eligible) and I guess they could try to sue Cuban entities but would have a hard time winning anything. There is also the question as to whether the US would have any jurisdiction over anything which happens in another country- allowing people to file suits in the US.

https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-cuba-lawsuits/explainer-trump-allows-lawsuits-over-cuba-confiscated-property-what-you-need-to-know-idUSL5N21Z6FB


Here’s what the implementation of this legislation means, according to lawyers and experts familiar with the issue:

HOW MANY LAWSUITS COULD ARISE FROM THIS MOVE?
The U.S. State Department has said Title III could produce up to 200,000 claims reaching a value in the tens of billions of dollars given the scale of expropriation after the Cuban revolution and of exile to the United States.

“The people who left in the ‘60s virtually owned the island,” said Washington-based attorney Robert Muse, who specializes in Cuba issues. “There was some U.S. investment but it was principally Cubans that owned most of the factories, retail premises and farmland.”

Still, some experts say the U.S. government figures could be inflated given the cost of and obstacles to filing suits, as well as doubts over whether claimants could ever get their hands on reparations if they won a judgment.

The legislation does not allow claims for residential property still used for residential purposes, for example. Claimants must be able to prove their ownership of a property six decades ago in another country as well as its confiscation.

“The real impact of this is going to be more limited than what is being bandied about publicly,” said Pedro Freyre, a Cuban-born attorney who heads the international practice at law firm Akerman. “It is a very technical law and other countries have already enacted legislation to protect themselves.”

WHO ARE THE BIG INVESTORS IN CUBA THIS COULD AFFECT?
Any plaintiffs are more likely to sue foreign companies than Cuban entities given a greater likelihood of getting any money back, experts say.

Yet, given that Cuba’s economy remains heavily dominated by the state, there is only limited foreign investment, restricting the number of companies that could be affected.

European and Canadian companies are the top foreign investors in Cuba, with investments focused on tourism, mining, real estate, rum and cigars. Chinese firms have also made some investments.

U.S. companies have increased business on the island since former President Barack Obama eased slightly the decades-old travel embargo on Cuba, although they do not have any major investments there.

HOW LIKELY IS IT CLAIMANTS WILL GET ANY MONEY BACK?
U.S. citizens suing Cuban state entities are unlikely to get any money back in the near-to-medium term even if they win their case as Cuba’s current government does not recognize U.S. courts. Moreover, Cuba no longer has any assets in the United States that could be seized for compensation, experts say.

People suing foreign companies for using confiscated property could force them to pay by threatening to attach any assets they may have in the United States. It would be harder for them to convince a foreign court to allow them to attach an asset abroad.

Meanwhile, several countries including Canada and the members of the European Union passed so-called blocking legislation in the 1990s requiring their companies not to comply with Title III claims and allowing them to make counterclaims if they are affected.

Whether or not this will prove an effective deterrent to claims remains to be seen.

WILL TITLE III IMPACT U.S. COMPANIES DOING BUSINESS IN CUBA?

The U.S. companies doing business with Cuba could emerge unscathed as most are in the travel or telecommunications industries and Title III includes exemptions for both sectors, lawyers say.

The extent of those exemptions - and whether they also apply to foreign companies - will likely be determined in U.S. courts, experts say.

U.S. companies that have entered the Cuban market in recent years are airlines like Jetblue and American as well as cruise companies like Carnival and Norwegian .

Alphabet Inc’s Google signed a deal with Cuba’s telecoms monopoly last month to work toward improving connectivity on the island.

WILL THIS HELP U.S. COMPANIES WITH CERTIFIED CLAIMS TO CONFISCATED PROPERTY?

The 1959 revolution resulted in the largest expropriation of U.S. assets ever, according to Muse.

However, this legislation is unlikely to help reach a settlement for the 5,913 claims held by U.S. companies and individuals that have been certified by the U.S. Justice Department and are estimated to be worth roughly $8 billion, according to experts familiar with the matter.

On the contrary, it could make the path toward a resolution more arduous by putting off any normalization of relations that could lead to a settlement, they say.

It will also muddy the focus by potentially throwing up thousands more claims by Cuban Americans, which the Cuban government deems violate international law.

SO WHAT’S CERTAIN?
The only certainties appear to be that the measure will create more tension with the United States’ top allies, further hurt the Cuban economy and play well with the anti-Castro Cuban American electorate in the swing state of Florida ahead of the 2020 presidential elections.

Cuba has been banking on foreign investment - alongside an update of its state-run companies and an expansion of the private sector - to boost its stagnant economy.

More at link.

US sanctions have had zero impact on the government of Cuba and only hurt their citizens. Trump feels Cuba is helping Maduro in Venezuela and wants to talk tough.

acptulsa
04-19-2019, 01:36 PM
Actually one would not sue Cuba but a company currently using that property. Does this mean that we can sue companies using land seized from Native Americans?


As I understand it, you have to be able to prove that you were the owner of the property (residential property is not eligible) and I guess they could try to sue Cuban entities but would have a hard time winning anything. There is also the question as to whether the US would have any jurisdiction over anything which happens in another country- allowing people to file suits in the US.


Any plaintiffs are more likely to sue foreign companies than Cuban entities given a greater likelihood of getting any money back, experts say.

Yet, given that Cuba’s economy remains heavily dominated by the state, there is only limited foreign investment, restricting the number of companies that could be affected.

You did read what you quoted, right? Because it does not say, "Actually one would not sue Cuba but a company currently using that property." What it says is, more plaintiffs sue companies than governments, but that probably won't work in Cuba.

Zippyjuan
04-19-2019, 01:38 PM
You did read what you quoted, right? Because it does not say, "Actually one would not sue Cuba but a company currently using that property." What it says is, more plaintiffs sue companies than governments, but that probably won't work in Cuba.

And reading what I wrote to go with that:


and I guess they could try to sue Cuban entities but would have a hard time winning anything.

acptulsa
04-19-2019, 01:45 PM
And reading what I wrote to go with that:

You said, "Actually one would not sue Cuba but a company currently using that property," and I called you on it. Now you're trying to spin your mistake by talking about "Cuban entities".

How's that working for you?

Zippyjuan
04-19-2019, 01:48 PM
You said, "Actually one would not sue Cuba but a company currently using that property," and I called you on it. Now you're trying to spin your mistake by talking about "Cuban entities".

How's that working for you?

I am not allowed to correct myself?

acptulsa
04-19-2019, 02:00 PM
I am not allowed to correct myself?

Sure. And I'm allowed to de-spin you when you try to obscure your correction in the guise of a mere clarification.

enhanced_deficit
04-19-2019, 04:17 PM
Slippery slope, could open doors to lawsuits and reparations over massive property, lives/limbs damages in Iraq (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiriyah_shelter_bombing).

Pauls' Revere
04-19-2019, 10:12 PM
Its my understanding that Native Americans had a much different take on "Property Rights" than we do today.

That being said, I think the USSA had a pretty big role in the slaughter of many Native Americans. The trail of tears comes to mind. Does the welfare they receive now count as reparation?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ4lnDy2xnQ

You'd have to go over each treaty agreement with each tribe/nation plus any additions that may have been added to any, if any additions were made? I'll leave that for the lawyers.

Pauls' Revere
04-19-2019, 10:13 PM
Slippery slope, could open doors to lawsuits and reparations over massive property, lives/limbs damages in Iraq (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiriyah_shelter_bombing).

How could I be sued for actions committed by others in the past?

brushfire
04-19-2019, 10:18 PM
I hear that there's some extra space in gitmo... With all those empty cells after obummer shut down the detention facility, i hear its paradise.

AZJoe
05-05-2019, 12:11 PM
Carnival Corp. is the first U.S. company sued for using ‘stolen’ property in Cuba (https://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl-bz-carnival-cuba-lawsuit-20190502-story.html)

Carnival Cruise Lines was hit Thursday with unprecedented lawsuits filed by businessmen whose … properties were seized by Fidel Castro nearly 60 years ago. The Miami-based cruising conglomerate was sued in federal court by Mickael Behn and Javier Garcia-Bengochea, both of whom hold claims certified by the federal government for assets confiscated shortly after the Cuban Revolution. The lawsuits — made possible by a historic change in policy (https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/fl-ne-cuba-travel-restrictions-20190417-story.html) under the Trump (https://www.sun-sentinel.com/topic/politics-government/donald-trump-PEBSL000163-topic.html) administration …

Behn, whose grandfather owned buildings and three piers at the entrance to the Port of Havana before they were nationalized in late 1960 … Behn and Garcia-Bengochea filed their claims on the first day possible after Donald Trump became the first U.S. president to fully enact a provision under the 1996 Helms-Burton Act — or LIBERTAD Act …

-------

Well there you have it. Carnival merely uses dock and buildings when it docks at a port that the Cuban government nationalized 60 years ago, and Carnival gets sued by descendants/grandchildren whose Cuban ancestors once had business there 60 years ago. So Carnival Cruise is liable to descendants of victims of what the Cuban government did 60 years ago because it docks at the nationalized ports.

AZJoe
05-05-2019, 12:37 PM
Under Trump change, Businesses that do Business in Cuba Liable for Reparations for Acts of Cuban Government (https://www.yahoo.com/news/under-trump-change-cuba-business-040238333.html)

on Thursday, Behn and Garcia Bengochea filed what were believed to be the first lawsuits against European and American companies doing business on confiscated properties in Cuba — thanks to the Trump administration's decision … Behn and Garcia Bengochea, who filed cases in federal court in Miami, are the heirs of families that owned ports which are now being used to dock cruise ships that began traveling to Cuba in 2016 … he is suing Carnival Cruise Corporation for up to three times the current value of the docks, as permitted under the law.

Bengochea, a neurosurgeon who lives in northeast Florida, owns 80 percent of the shares of the confiscated Cuban company La Marítima, which operated the port of Santiago de Cuba. He is suing for up to $20 million. …

During the Obama administration, the cruise companies were issued licenses by the Treasury Department to carry American passengers to Cuba.

Other potential major targets include Spanish hotel chains Meliá and Iberostar, Pernod Ricard of France, and other U.S. cruise lines that dock at ports confiscated from U.S. residents." …

The law "was an effort to tie the hands of any president to improve relations with Cuba," …

"No doubt that there will be a threatening effect that will inhibit some investors of going to Cuba.” …

On Thursday, the European Union also said it could file a World Trade Organization lawsuit or levy its own sanctions against U.S. entities that sue under Title III. "The EU sees the extraterritorial application of unilateral restrictive measures as violating international law, and will take all appropriate measures," …

Others, however, celebrated the first lawsuits. Orlando Gutiérrez Boronat, … "Everyone who wants to invest in Cuba will have to go to federal court," he said …

The Justice Department has certified some 6,000 claims worth approximately $8 billion at current values. There are an additional 200,000 uncertified claims …