How to Stop Illegal Immigration Without a Wall

[James_Madison_Lives]

https://hubpages.com/politics/How-to-Stop-Illegal-Immigration-Without-a-Wall

https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/14340045_f520.jpg


How to Stop Illegal Immigration Without a Wall

Trumpers and other Americans are once again getting themselves all bent out of shape over a problem for which there is a simple solution. A wall won't stop illegal immigration, because it hits at a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.


A wall may slow the immigrant flow down, but it won't stop it. The problem won't stop until you jail the employers who hire the illegals and treat them as harshly as the illegals, including jail time.


It's real simple. The illegals aren't stupid. They see the remittances coming back from the US Western Union, for thousands of dollars, so they know the money is up here, more in a month than they can make down there in a year. Wherever down there is, Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras.
It's the remittances, stupid.


If they can stand pulling chicken guts for a few years they'll make up what they paid the coyote and much more. And they are used to pulling chicken guts anyway, being farmers, so who cares?


But every time grandma goes to El Western Union in la ciudad... READ FULL >>> https://hubpages.com/politics/How-to-Stop-Illegal-Immigration-Without-a-Wall

[Swordsmyth]

1 Require proof of citizenship/legal residence to wire money out of the country.

2 Increase the size of the Border Patrol or put the military on the border.

3 Don't stop anyone crossing the border on the way out.

[James_Madison_Lives]

1 Require proof of citizenship/legal residence to wire money out of the country.

2 Increase the size of the Border Patrol or put the military on the border.

3 Don't stop anyone crossing the border on the way out.

And jail the employers.

[Origanalist]

https://hubpages.com/politics/How-to-Stop-Illegal-Immigration-Without-a-Wall

https://usercontent2.hubstatic.com/14340045_f520.jpg


How to Stop Illegal Immigration Without a Wall

Trumpers and other Americans are once again getting themselves all bent out of shape over a problem for which there is a simple solution. A wall won't stop illegal immigration, because it hits at a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

A wall may slow the immigrant flow down, but it won't stop it. The problem won't stop until you jail the employers who hire the illegals and treat them as harshly as the illegals, including jail time.

It's real simple. The illegals aren't stupid. They see the remittances coming back from the US Western Union, for thousands of dollars, so they know the money is up here, more in a month than they can make down there in a year. Wherever down there is, Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras.
It's the remittances, stupid.

If they can stand pulling chicken guts for a few years they'll make up what they paid the coyote and much more. And they are used to pulling chicken guts anyway, being farmers, so who cares?

But every time grandma goes to El Western Union in la ciudad... READ FULL >>> https://hubpages.com/politics/How-to-Stop-Illegal-Immigration-Without-a-Wall

This guy is right, if anyone was serious about it this is what would happen. But it won't because politicians on both sides of the isle love having this issue to generate votes. Including and especially Trump.

[Occam's Banana]

"Would you like jackboots with that?"


And jail the employers.

And shoot their dogs.

[Feeding the Abscess]

If anyone wanted to see social media deplatforming become ubiquitous in all facets of society, granting the power to the State to end remittances and wire transfers to certain classes is a wonderful way to bring that about.

Additionally, one can't logically argue against taxation, especially income taxation, while supporting ending remittances. Implicit in the argument for both is that the State owns you and your wealth.

[Swordsmyth]

If anyone wanted to see social media deplatforming become ubiquitous in all facets of society, granting the power to the State to end remittances and wire transfers to certain classes is a wonderful way to bring that about.

Additionally, one can't logically argue against taxation, especially income taxation, while supporting ending remittances. Implicit in the argument for both is that the State owns you and your wealth.
Illegals don't have a right to be here, they don't have a right to do anything here, that means they don't have a right to send money out of the country either.

What is your suggestion? No borders, no wall, no USA at all?

[Brian4Liberty]

This guy is right, if anyone was serious about it this is what would happen. But it won't because politicians on both sides of the isle love having this issue to generate votes. Including and especially Trump.

Exactly. As I’ve said before, the government doesn’t enforce it, and it’s intentional. Forget “RealID”. Employers are required to have a SSN for every employee. Yet the government doesn’t care if that same SSN is used simultaneously by 100 workers across the nation (and originated with someone in a graveyard). They are happy to collect taxes and ignore the fraud right in front of their face. Wall, Lol.

[TheTexan]

How to Stop Illegal Immigration Without a Wall

I thought this thread was going to be about landmines.

Disappointed.

[kpitcher]

The ID for transferring money just makes it a simple problem to overcome. There are so many ways to transfer wealth that do not include western union style places that it would be impossible to stop.

Crypto currency and Hawala are just two of many examples. If it was stopping billions in cash flow the number of solutions would grow exponentially.

[Swordsmyth]

The ID for transferring money just makes it a simple problem to overcome. There are so many ways to transfer wealth that do not include western union style places that it would be impossible to stop.

Crypto currency and Hawala are just two of many examples. If it was stopping billions in cash flow the number of solutions would grow exponentially.
Everything that makes it harder or riskier reduces the incentive.

[UWDude]

I thought this thread was going to be about landmines.

Disappointed.

This guy.

[TheCount]

Sure, give all of Western Union's business to the cartels. That will definitely make things better.

[spudea]

This guy is right, if anyone was serious about it this is what would happen. But it won't because politicians on both sides of the isle love having this issue to generate votes. Including and especially Trump.

It's been proposed in many immigration bills and supported by Trump, but then gets taken out because it won't pass. So there are a handful of people serious about it but not enough.

[CCTelander]

"Would you like jackboots with that?"



And shoot their dogs.


The more jackboots the better, apparently.

And a few jailed entrepreneurs and dead dogs are a small price to pay for the warm fuzzy illusion of safety and security.

[asurfaholic]

I’m not that worried about illegal immigrants. It’s always been my position that the problem is the welfare state- giving free medical and schooling, and all the other benefits that our liberal state gives out drives up the incentive to come here and do nothing.

But I can’t hate on someone willing to leave their homes to come here and perform hard work to better support their families. I have much bigger problems with the enormous tax burden created by the welfare state as a whole.

Most Mexicans I’ve met and worked with are top notch humans.

I’m not talking about hoards of people in caravans in highly politicized mass immigration events.

[Stratovarious]

I thought this thread was going to be about landmines.

Disappointed.
Ha ha
...and I thought this was a vendor introducing the 4140 volt MKIII TASER.

[Stratovarious]

Jail offending employers (been yelling this for 12 years)
Cut ALL welfare, licenses, Free Healthcare, education, sanctuary cities along
with some kind of variation of what the OP suggests.
I'm a bit on the fence (ha haa) about the wall, not a bad idea, but not by any means
the cure.

[Schifference]

Sending a person to jail is an overall expense on society. Fining a person $$ adds money to the coffer.
Wouldn't the infamous Bictcoin circumvent the wiring of money across the border?
Microchip every person in the USA. Eliminate all cash transactions. No more credit cards. People are paid directly into their micro chip. Credit companies can work directly to micro-chip. Scanners all over the country detect person without microchip and track every persons activies that has microchip. Full on Police State. Each adult with microchip regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation, gender, whatever has to pay Ocasio tax to live in good ole US of A. No more banks. Direct deposit into your microchip. Direct withdraw out of microchip.

[Schifference]

Not just your ordinary microchip but a smart microchip. The smart microchip can monitor your health, your caloric intake, your calories burned, your drug intake. This microchip will be so advanced it will know what is good for you. If you are overweight and try to purchase candy the purchase will be rejected and your microchip will have an automatic deduction/fine for trying to purchase. If you are speeding or running a stop sign this chip will know and automatically fine you.
Lets face it boys, girls, and all others, it is time to set our goals and achieve them.

[timosman]

And jail the employers.

Let's not go too far. :D

[DamianTV]

Stop giving them fucking WELFARE.

Remove the incentives for the Illegal Immigrants, such as Free Education and Healthcare, and printing everything in spanish because its a reward for breaking our laws. We speak ENGLISH in this country.

Remove the incentives for Employers to hire Illegals over Sovereign Citizens, and apply negative reinforcement.

Provide a reasonable legal path towards citizenship, such as speaking english, number of applicants, limits, etc.

Turn the Legal Citizens against Illegal Immigration. We have shown TOO MUCH tolerance for breaking our existing laws.

Throw the ones that do not comply with the Standards and Laws of our society in jail, including employers.

APPLY THE FUCKING LAW.

[Superfluous Man]

If immigration weren't illegal there would be no illegal immigration.

The way people like the author of the OP use the word "illegal" is sophistry. They're against immigration, period, not just illegal immigration.

[Superfluous Man]

Stop giving them $#@!ing WELFARE.

Remove the incentives for the Illegal Immigrants, such as Free Education and Healthcare, and printing everything in spanish because its a reward for breaking our laws. We speak ENGLISH in this country.

Remove the incentives for Employers to hire Illegals over Sovereign Citizens, and apply negative reinforcement.

Provide a reasonable legal path towards citizenship, such as speaking english, number of applicants, limits, etc.

Turn the Legal Citizens against Illegal Immigration. We have shown TOO MUCH tolerance for breaking our existing laws.

Throw the ones that do not comply with the Standards and Laws of our society in jail, including employers.

APPLY THE $#@!ING LAW.

What in the world does speaking English have to do with anything?

You speak English. Fine. Whatever language two other people speak with one another is none of your concern.

Once you give the government power to regulate our language to make sure we're all speaking what it considers English, how do you propose the law define what constitutes "English"? And how would it enforce that law? Have you given any thought to what an incredible expansion of tyranny that would be?

And this sentence is really something else: "We have shown TOO MUCH tolerance for breaking our existing laws." Are you sure you're in the right place?

[timosman]

What in the world does speaking English have to do with anything?

You speak English. Fine. Whatever language two other people speak with one another is none of your concern.

Once you give the government power to regulate our language to make sure we're all speaking what it considers English, how do you propose the law define what constitutes "English"? And how would it enforce that law? Have you given any thought to what an incredible expansion of tyranny that would be?

And this sentence is really something else: "We have shown TOO MUCH tolerance for breaking our existing laws." Are you sure you're in the right place?

:rolleyes:

[brushfire]

Easy answer - take away the incentive. No school, no health care. Financially punish those who employ illegals (including rich people).

[georgiaboy]

Still chasing symptoms.

Regardless of topic, any solutions presented should begin with shrinking fedgov. Immigration, healthcare, taxes, foreign policy, economy, environment, education, housing, and on and on it goes.

Instead of adding additional gov intrusion into the problem, ask what the gov has done to incentivize the problem. In the case of the OP, employers are in a no-win situation with minimum wage laws and high taxes, regulations, influencing their hiring practices, as well as a decreased unskilled labor pool due to the welfare state. IMO, the immigration issue as related to hiring low wage workers is a symptom of an already overly intrusive federal gov't. If the employers are skirting the immigration laws due to other burdens, get rid of the burdens to allow them to hire without resorting to the gray market.

[Origanalist]

Still chasing symptoms.

Regardless of topic, any solutions presented should begin with shrinking fedgov. Immigration, healthcare, taxes, foreign policy, economy, environment, education, housing, and on and on it goes.

Instead of adding additional gov intrusion into the problem, ask what the gov has done to incentivize the problem. In the case of the OP, employers are in a no-win situation with minimum wage laws and high taxes, regulations, influencing their hiring practices, as well as a decreased unskilled labor pool due to the welfare state. IMO, the immigration issue as related to hiring low wage workers is a symptom of an already overly intrusive federal gov't. If the employers are skirting the immigration laws due to other burdens, get rid of the burdens to allow them to hire without resorting to the gray market.

As has already been stated, the politicians don't want the issue to go away. It's a very valuable tool for them, just like racial relations to the race pimps.

[James_Madison_Lives]

As has already been stated, the politicians don't want the issue to go away. It's a very valuable tool for them, just like racial relations to the race pimps.

This. If you put an end to the jobs they would stop coming. Unfortunately it looks like many here suffer cognitive dissonance, either that or have a house cleaner they like and trust and while they enjoy bashing the poorest of the poor, they don't want to look too deeply into her background. Stupid, vicious people these Americans.

[CaptUSA]

Because liberty is just too hard!

Seriously. Liberty solves these problems, but no... we want more and more restrictions.

[Ender]

Because liberty is just too hard!

Seriously. Liberty solves these problems, but no... we want more and more restrictions.

Exactly.

No entitlements, let the free market alone & let owners hire whom they dang well want.

Saves money & lets Freedom reign, but we can't have that now can we? Gotta have all the hate BS going on so politicians can control everyone's Blue Pill mind.

[Stratovarious]

As has already been stated, the politicians don't want the issue to go away. It's a very valuable tool for them, just like racial relations to the race pimps.

Here here......
From women's rights, lbgt , race, income tiers, regional ticks', without these , the people would
be bored enough to start looking at the core issues; Government tyranny, corruption , collusion ,
theft, and all the little Oathbreakers from law enforcement up through scotus right to the Oval Office*.
*not so much this term but the previous 5 or 6 for sure.

[Cleaner44]

I thought this thread was going to be about landmines.

Disappointed.

I support sharks with laser beams in the Rio Grande river. Of course we will need to add a bunch of salt to the river. Maybe Piranhas or Alligators with laser beams.

[Swordsmyth]

If immigration weren't illegal there would be no illegal immigration.

The way people like the author of the OP use the word "illegal" is sophistry. They're against immigration, period, not just illegal immigration.
It's about limited immigration, we have a right and a need to limit it.

[Swordsmyth]

I’m not that worried about illegal immigrants. It’s always been my position that the problem is the welfare state- giving free medical and schooling, and all the other benefits that our liberal state gives out drives up the incentive to come here and do nothing.

But I can’t hate on someone willing to leave their homes to come here and perform hard work to better support their families. I have much bigger problems with the enormous tax burden created by the welfare state as a whole.

Most Mexicans I’ve met and worked with are top notch humans.

I’m not talking about hoards of people in caravans in highly politicized mass immigration events.
The problem is that they vote to steal my rights and money, I'm all for ending the incentives but our economy itself is the biggest incentive and it will continue to be until they vote in enough communists to destroy it, if we ended the incentives that would temporarily improve our economy and increase that incentive.

[Superfluous Man]

Still chasing symptoms.

Regardless of topic, any solutions presented should begin with shrinking fedgov. Immigration, healthcare, taxes, foreign policy, economy, environment, education, housing, and on and on it goes.

Instead of adding additional gov intrusion into the problem, ask what the gov has done to incentivize the problem. In the case of the OP, employers are in a no-win situation with minimum wage laws and high taxes, regulations, influencing their hiring practices, as well as a decreased unskilled labor pool due to the welfare state. IMO, the immigration issue as related to hiring low wage workers is a symptom of an already overly intrusive federal gov't. If the employers are skirting the immigration laws due to other burdens, get rid of the burdens to allow them to hire without resorting to the gray market.

+rep

[DamianTV]

Exactly.

No entitlements, let the free market alone & let owners hire whom they dang well want.

Saves money & lets Freedom reign, but we can't have that now can we? Gotta have all the hate BS going on so politicians can control everyone's Blue Pill mind.

Agree, and question...

So, the desire to build a wall only treats the Symptom. Cause of that is so many people from very poor countries want to come here. Is that desire to come here another Symptom, or is that the real cause? They arent coming here for Freedom, they seem to be coming because they want to escape Poverty. But, what caused that Poverty there? If the US had remained on a Gold Standard, not just with Nixon, but all the way back to 1913 when the Federal Reserve Bank (and IRS) were formed, it basically enabled transfer of wealth with inflation, interest, fractional reserve lending, war, installing Dictators, etc, which caused the value of our money to go down, but quantity to go up, however, in the now poor countries, they just could not keep up with our money printing.

Perhaps the deeper solution is Honest Money, which would have prevented the Poverty that caused the desire for Immigration to begin with?

We know we do NOT have a Free Market. Companies like Facebook and Google and even Walmart survive because of Govt Subsidies and Payouts, which incentivizes and rewards despicable and unlivable pay. Govt subsidizes Walmart with Food Stamps and Welfare. So the poor both here and in poorer countries are getting ruined by Dishonest Govt intervention? Im not saying your wrong, just trying to figure out why we dont have a Free Market and all these demands for Entitlements...

[Swordsmyth]

Agree, and question...

So, the desire to build a wall only treats the Symptom. Cause of that is so many people from very poor countries want to come here. Is that desire to come here another Symptom, or is that the real cause? They arent coming here for Freedom, they seem to be coming because they want to escape Poverty. But, what caused that Poverty there? If the US had remained on a Gold Standard, not just with Nixon, but all the way back to 1913 when the Federal Reserve Bank (and IRS) were formed, it basically enabled transfer of wealth with inflation, interest, fractional reserve lending, war, installing Dictators, etc, which caused the value of our money to go down, but quantity to go up, however, in the now poor countries, they just could not keep up with our money printing.

Perhaps the deeper solution is Honest Money, which would have prevented the Poverty that caused the desire for Immigration to begin with?

We know we do NOT have a Free Market. Companies like Facebook and Google and even Walmart survive because of Govt Subsidies and Payouts, which incentivizes and rewards despicable and unlivable pay. Govt subsidizes Walmart with Food Stamps and Welfare. So the poor both here and in poorer countries are getting ruined by Dishonest Govt intervention? Im not saying your wrong, just trying to figure out why we dont have a Free Market and all these demands for Entitlements...
And we must treat the symptoms until we can deal with the cause or we will die before we can deal with the cause.

I believe that we would still have a problem because we would be so much better off if we had sound money and free markets while other countries would still be poor because of socialism but we can figure that out after we stop the bleeding and then cure the cause.

[Stratovarious]

I’m not that worried about illegal immigrants. It’s always been my position that the problem is the welfare state- giving free medical and schooling, and all the other benefits that our liberal state gives out drives up the incentive to come here and do nothing.

But I can’t hate on someone willing to leave their homes to come here and perform hard work to better support their families. I have much bigger problems with the enormous tax burden created by the welfare state as a whole.

Most Mexicans I’ve met and worked with are top notch humans.

I’m not talking about hoards of people in caravans in highly politicized mass immigration events.


- You should be my frien' , ms 13 , rapists, drunks, diseased, felons, murders, terrorists.
It's not just Mexicans for breakfast anymore, we have god knows what coming across that
border.
You love Mexicans, well so do I , probably had more friends and co workers than you over
the years, that isn't the issue.
Streamline immigration on a merit basis, sounds fair to me, but in today's climate, we need
ZERO illegals , zero illegals of any origin, especially the unveted' that have no respect for
our culture nor our laws. If an immigrant can't pledge allegiance to our country, love us,
obey our laws , speak our language , we don't need him.
This is not France, we owe the world nothing, we don't have to be the next Britain, Sweden , Germany.

[Superfluous Man]

Exactly.

No entitlements, let the free market alone & let owners hire whom they dang well want.

Saves money & lets Freedom reign, but we can't have that now can we? Gotta have all the hate BS going on so politicians can control everyone's Blue Pill mind.

The problem the immigration restrictionists have with this solution is that it would result in more immigrants coming here, rather than fewer. The explanation that eliminating benefits would eliminate a major incentive to come here just isn't true.

And at the end of the day, more immigrants coming here is what the immigration restrictionists really oppose.

[Swordsmyth]

The problem the immigration restrictionists have with this solution is that it would result in more immigrants coming here, rather than fewer. The explanation that eliminating benefits would eliminate a major incentive to come here just isn't true.

And at the end of the day, more immigrants coming here is what the immigration restrictionists really oppose.
Imagine that.

We don't want to be turned into a communist country by allowing millions of communists to come her and vote for communism.

You seem to not mind becoming a communist country, maybe that is even your goal...................

[James_Madison_Lives]

The problem the immigration restrictionists have with this solution is that it would result in more immigrants coming here, rather than fewer. The explanation that eliminating benefits would eliminate a major incentive to come here just isn't true.

And at the end of the day, more immigrants coming here is what the immigration restrictionists really oppose.

If you put employers of illegals in jail and stopped government benefits for illegals with young anchor babies they would head back over the border in droves. Trump should be talking about reversing the problem, not just slowing it down which is all theater.

[Superfluous Man]

If you put employers of illegals in jail

And this is the key.

If people are really serious about immigration restriction, and they actually know anything about the issue, they are bound to end up supporting morally indefensible laws that violate all of our rights like this.

[Stratovarious]

If you put employers of illegals in jail and stopped government benefits for illegals with young anchor babies they would head back over the border in droves. Trump should be talking about reversing the problem, not just slowing it down which is all theater.
Unfortunately James , while I agree and have written this a million times: cut all incentives etc etc etc, this is
not the full package, ms13 , felons, diseased, terrorists, murderers, drug dealers, will come in, they don't need the kinds of incentives
that we can 'cut' , they have other incentives.

[Stratovarious]

Imagine that.

We don't want to be turned into a communist country by allowing millions of communists to come her and vote for communism.

You seem to not mind becoming a communist country, maybe that is even your goal...................
If any immigrant is not bowled over in love with out culture and laws, this is the last place they need to be.

[Superfluous Man]

Unfortunately James , while I agree and have written this a million times: cut all incentives etc etc etc, this is
not the full package, ms13 , felons, diseased, terrorists, murderers, drug dealers, will come in, they don't need the kinds of incentives
that we can 'cut' , they have other incentives.

That's why he had to include the jailing of employers who hire them. That's actually the most powerful tool of those he listed.

[Stratovarious]

That's why he had to include the jailing of employers who hire them. That's actually the most powerful tool of those he listed.
I've said that at least a million times, its a good tool, its not enough.