$215,000 Raised for Border Wall in One Day via GoFundMe [Archive]

Swordsmyth

12-18-2018, 08:11 PM

https://bigleaguepolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Screen-Shot-2018-12-18-at-8.35.52-PM-1200x630.png

man who set up a GoFundMe (https://www.gofundme.com/TheTrumpWall) to build a wall at the Southern United States border has raised more than $215,000 in one day. “My name is Brian Kolfage, (https://www.facebook.com/Brian.Kolfage.jr/) I have a verified blue check facebook page as a public figure and I’m a triple amputee veteran (http://briankolfage.com/),” said the page’s creator.
The page is called “We the People Will Build the Wall.”
Kolfage explained:

Like a majority of Americans we elected President Donald J Trump to Make America Great Again. President Trump’s main campaign promise was to BUILD THE WALL. And as he’s followed through on just about every promise so far, this wall project needs to be completed still.
As a veteran who has given so much, 3 limbs, I feel deeply invested to this nation to ensure future generations have everything we have today. Too many Americans have been murdered by illegal aliens and too many illegals are taking advantage of the United States taxpayers with no means of ever contributing to our society.
I have grandparents who immigrated to America legally, they did it the correct way and it’s time we uphold our laws, and get this wall BUILT! It’s up to Americans to help out and pitch in to get this project rolling.
“If the 63 million people who voted for Trump each pledge $80, we can build the wall.” That equates to roughly 5Billion Dollars, even if we get half, that’s half the wall. We can do this.

The GoFundMe is an exercise in true populism. If the government will not give the American people what they want, then the American people will have to do it themselves. In fact, Kolfage has done more to get the wall built in 24 hours than Congress – and President Trump, for that matter – in two years.
The maximum goal for any GoFundMe is $1 billion. Kolfage said that he is working with the company to get the limit raised so that Americans can hit their target of $5 billion.

Donations are pouring in by the minute as Americans are contributing what they can to ensure the sovereignty of their nation’s future.
Kolfage did not immediately respond to a comment request.

https://bigleaguepolitics.com/215000-raised-for-border-wall-in-one-day-via-gofundme/

r3volution 3.0

12-18-2018, 08:19 PM

I have no problem with suckers donating their own money to stupid causes.

I only object when they start donating other people's money...

So, I wish this sucker-drive well.

enhanced_deficit

12-18-2018, 08:22 PM

This could mean even if Media is not pushing fakenews and MAGA will indeed bend to Dems/Pelosi/Schumer team, he will have a backup plan. 5D chess dealmaking at its finest from art of the dealer.

MAGA bends to Dems on Wall (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?529411-MAGA-bends-to-Dems&)

Coulter: Trump Will Not Finish Current Term, "joke presidency who scammed the American people" (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?529453-Coulter-Trump-Will-Not-Finish-Current-Term-quot-joke-presidency-who-scammed-the-American-people-quot&)

GUTLESS PRESIDENT IN WALL-LESS COUNTRY

December 19, 2018
If you were elected president after decades of politicians doing nothing about the millions of illegals pouring into our country every year, committing crimes, dealing drugs, driving drunk, molesting children and killing Americans like Kate Steinle, and your central campaign promise -- repeated every day -- was to build a wall, wouldn't you have spent the entirety of your transition period working on getting it done?

Wouldn't you have been building prototypes, developing relationships with key congressional allies and talking to military leaders about using the Seabees or the Army Corps of Engineers to build the wall?

Wouldn't you skip the inauguration and take the oath of office in San Diego so you could get started on supervising wall construction immediately after putting your hand on the Bible and being sworn in as the leader of the free world?

You would if you meant it.

Well, Donald Trump didn't do that.

OK, sure he could have taken the oath in D.C., gone to a few balls, then started the wall on day two of his presidency. But he didn't do that either.

Maybe I'm a literalist. A zealot. When people kept telling me to be patient -- the wall is coming! -- I nursed a private hope that I was wrong, and they were right.

It is now crystal clear that one of two things is true: Either Trump never intended to build the wall and was scamming voters all along, or he has no idea how to get it done and zero interest in finding out.

He sacrifices every opportunity to make the wall happen.

For two years, Trump pretended to believe the president of the United States needs express authorization from Congress to defend the nation's borders and blamed the Republican majority for not "funding" the wall.

In a few weeks, he'll start blaming the Democratic House.

Last week -- several whole days ago -- Trump said over and over again that he would shut down the government if he didn't get funding for the wall -- the precise thing he claims he needs. "We need border security. The wall is a part of border security," he said. "If we don't have border security, we'll shut down the government."

Trump wore the shutdown over the wall as a badge of honor: "You want to know something? OK, you want to put that on me. I'll take it. You know what I'll say? Yes, if we don't get what we want ... I will shut down the government. Absolutely."

One week later, The Drudge Report:

WALL FUNDING OFF TABLE

In other words, Trump is doing exactly what I feared he would do in the worst conceivable way. He's not building the wall, while making ridiculous promises right up until the second before he folds.

The Washington Post loves to find the one crazy, trailer park lady who supports Trump because she's had religious ecstasies about him, but most people who voted for him did so with a boatload of qualms.

His business is convincing people with lowbrow taste to give him their money.

Coulter really crossed the line on this.

Edit to add:
MAGA is reportedly reversing his last reported stance stance and is now determined to let gov shut down over Wall funding as of latest reports today.

Related

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/misc/poll_posticon.gif Poll: How much trust do you put in current President's promises and statements? (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?521272-How-much-trust-do-you-put-in-current-President-s-promises-and-statements&p=6722695&viewfull=1#post6722695)

Very high/absolute 8.89%
High 4.44%
Low 8.89%
Very low/none 73.33%
Not sure/other 4.44%

Swordsmyth

12-18-2018, 08:39 PM

I have no problem with suckers donating their own money to stupid causes.

I only object when they start donating other people's money...

So, I wish this sucker-drive well.
Maybe you should apply that logic when you want to use OPM to bomb foreign countries into submission to liberty as you define it.

oyarde

12-18-2018, 09:24 PM

Avg donation 62 FRN's .

devil21

12-18-2018, 10:35 PM

PT Barnum proven right once again.

aGameOfThrones

12-19-2018, 02:40 PM

$850k+

euphemia

12-19-2018, 02:56 PM

I have no problem with suckers donating their own money to stupid causes.

I only object when they start donating other people's money...

We have funded this project since 2006 or before.

euphemia

12-19-2018, 02:57 PM

Just wondering: if this wall is privately funded, will government still try to stick its oar in and try to regulate every aspect? Or does the private funding mean it will be built in a timely way without government interference?

r3volution 3.0

12-19-2018, 09:48 PM

We have funded this project since 2006 or before.

That's not at all surprising.

kpitcher

12-19-2018, 09:57 PM

An odd question, don't think it fits in anywhere so will put it here :

Current segments of the wall, and potential future ones, will not be on the actual border, cutting off American soil from the rest of the country. Ignoring all the eminent domain issues...

What's to stop some non american walking onto US soil, but on the outer side of the wall, and giving birth to a new american citizen? Not sure how it'd be documented.. live video feed perhaps? Question came up in conversation today and I have no idea.

EBounding

12-19-2018, 10:00 PM

What's the guy (with a blue facebook checkmark) going to do if he actually raises the one billion?

Swordsmyth

12-19-2018, 10:05 PM

What's the guy (with a blue facebook checkmark) going to do if he actually raises the one billion?
In the description for his page, Kolfage, who was awarded the purple heart for his sacrifice on the battlefield, said he was inspired to launch the effort after a billionaire private donor donated more than $7 million to restore the Washington monument.
The notion that Trump's supporters could pitch in the pay for a large portion of the wall isn't so far-fetched he explained: If every person who voted for Trump were to pitch in $83, the government could use the money to build the entire wall.
His goal? To build the wall to stop illegal immigrants from siphoning off taxpayer resources and murdering innocent American citizens.
Read his full description below:

The government has accepted large private donations before, most recently a billionaire donated $7.5 Million to fund half of the Washington Monument repairs in 2012; this is no different.

Like a majority of those American citizens who voted to elect President Donald J Trump, we voted for him to Make America Great Again. President Trump’s main campaign promise was to BUILD THE WALL. And as he’s followed through on just about every promise so far, this wall project needs to be completed still.
As a veteran who has given so much, 3 limbs, I feel deeply invested to this nation to ensure future generations have everything we have today. Too many Americans have been murdered by illegal aliens and too many illegals are taking advantage of the United States taxpayers with no means of ever contributing to our society.
I have grandparents who immigrated to America legally, they did it the correct way and it's time we uphold our laws, and get this wall BUILT!It’s up to Americans to help out and pitch in to get this project rolling.
“If the 63 million people who voted for Trump each pledge $80, we can build the wall.” That equates to roughly 5Billion Dollars, even if we get half, that's half the wall. We can do this.
Democrats are going to stall this project by every means possible and play political games to ensure President Trump doesn’t get his victor. They'd rather see President Trump fail, than see America succeed. However, if we can fund a large portion of this wall, it will jumpstart things and will be less money Trump has to secure from our politicians.
This won’t be easy, but it’s our duty as citizens. This needs to be shared every single day by each of you on social media. We can do it, and we can help President Trump make America safe again!
Kolfage's effort will be exposed to a broader audience on Thursday, when he's set to appear on Fox pundit Laura Ingraham's show.

More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-12-19/build-wall-gofundme-page-raises-1-million-two-days

enhanced_deficit

12-19-2018, 10:05 PM

What's the guy (with a blue facebook checkmark) going to do if he actually raises the one billion?

That could make MAGA look bad if a regular Joe with no deal making/negotiation skills can raise this much money in a few days that MAGA as holder of most powerful political office in the world and top notch deal making skills could not in two years?

GOP base activists like Ann Coulter (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?529453-Coulter-Trump-Will-Not-Finish-Current-Term-quot-joke-presidency-who-scammed-the-American-people-quot&) may want him to run for political office if he pulled this off.

r3volution 3.0

12-19-2018, 10:11 PM

What's the guy (with a blue facebook checkmark) going to do if he actually raises the one billion?

Say the problem can't be solved unless he has another?

...because this will never solve the problem, because immigration isn't the problem.

devil21

12-20-2018, 12:09 AM

Hmm....Kolfage is same guy whose FB page was shut down a couple months ago with claimed 3.5million followers (eta: seems it was later unbanned). Judging by random pics on the net of he and his model wife, they've grown quite accustomed to a high standard of living off of his notoriety and probably have some mighty large bills that came along with it. Now I'm not saying this is a scam to bring in money to continue funding that lifestyle but...

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/10/16/facebook-deletes-disabled-veterans-page-without-warning-after-taking-300000-for-ads/

Schifference

12-20-2018, 05:37 AM

All of government should be funded by go fund me contributions.

ZakCarter

12-20-2018, 07:01 AM

ZakCarter

12-20-2018, 07:03 AM

This is The coolest fundraiser since our MoneyBombs in my book! Donating! Thanks for posting!

(it was the border situation that helped bring me to Dr. Paul back in 2007)

Schifference

12-20-2018, 07:31 AM

Will be interesting to see how long it takes to get 1 billion in donations. It appears to be over 2 million this morning. 1 billion is a long way from 2 million.

EBounding

12-20-2018, 08:18 AM

has anyone here actually sent money towards this?

Schifference

12-20-2018, 08:28 AM

This should have been set up as a tax deductible contribution. Maybe even an investment with a return. We have hedge funds why not wall funds?

PAF

12-20-2018, 08:40 AM

has anyone here actually sent money towards this?

Absolutely not. This is RPF, not DTF.

Unless you are asking the neocons on this site, who believe that bigger government leads to smaller government, as they have fallen for for decades.

devil21

12-20-2018, 09:39 AM

Mr. Kolfage owns militarygradecoffee.com - my guess is he's doing just fine paying his own bills!

The sales of which relied heavily on his internet influencer status, which took a major hit from the FB banning. I can't find when his pages were reinstated but in this quickly moving internet fame environment, out-of-sight-out-of-mind for any sustained length of time can be a business death sentence.

At the very least he'll skim some decent interest off the top of the donation fund. I'll hold my breath for this to materialize into a 2000 mile wall lol.

(eta: interest earned at 2% would be a hefty $400k over a year, considering the amount raised as of 12-31-18)

ZakCarter

12-20-2018, 11:48 AM

Absolutely not. This is RPF, not DTF.

Unless you are asking the neocons on this site, who believe that bigger government leads to smaller government, as they have fallen for for decades.

I donated, and I'm definitely not a neocon! ....I'm also not a hippie ;) over 5 million donated so far!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b23MUAGibXM&t=29s

angelatc

12-20-2018, 11:58 AM

That's a nope.

Anti Federalist

12-20-2018, 11:59 AM

This is The coolest fundraiser since our MoneyBombs in my book! Donating! Thanks for posting!

(it was the border situation that helped bring me to Dr. Paul back in 2007)

Amazing, amazing.

To hear some around here tell it, Ron Paul was an open borders kind of guy.

Anti Federalist

12-20-2018, 12:04 PM

This should have been set up as a tax deductible contribution. Maybe even an investment with a return. We have hedge funds why not wall funds?

Bill is in progress to do just that.

Tax free bonds.

Update: Vet Raises over $4 Million for Wall in Three Days; Lawmaker’s Bill to Direct Funds

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/20/update-vet-raises-over-4-million-for-wall-in-three-days-lawmakers-bill-to-direct-funds/

20 Dec 2018

Insiders say that Congress won’t provide the $5 billion to build a wall on the U.S. southern border, but a triple-amputee military veteran and Purple Heart recipient has raised over $4 million in three days on the crowdfunding site Go Fund Me.

Brian Kolfage started the campaign on December 16 out of frustration that the federal government is failing to secure the border.

“As a veteran who has given so much, 3 limbs, I feel deeply invested to this nation to ensure future generations have everything we have today,” Kolfage wrote on his Go Fund Me page. “Too many Americans have been murdered by illegal aliens and too many illegals are taking advantage of the United States taxpayers with no means of ever contributing to our society.”

“If the 63 million people who voted for Trump each pledge $80, we can build the wall,” Kolfage wrote on his Go Fund Me page. “That equates to roughly 5 Billion Dollars, even if we get half, that’s half the wall. We can do this.”

So far, more than 70,000 people have contributed in donations ranging from $5 to $100, with donations pouring in by the minute.

And because it is not easy to give money to the federal government that is dedicated for a specific purpose, Rep. Steven Palazzo (R-MI) introduced legislation that would direct the Treasury Department to issue government savings bonds that could be used to fund the wall.

Palazzo, vice chairman of the House Homeland Security Appropriations Subcommittee, introduced the Border Bonds for America Act of 2018 on Monday.

The bill “allows American citizens the opportunity to purchase revenue bonds to help finance the construction of a southern border wall,” the press release announcing the legislation said.

“This bill is a safe investment into the infrastructure and security of our country,” Palazzo said, adding that there is a precedent for Americans paying to ensure the nation’s security.

“During World War II, 85 million Americans purchased $185 billion in war bonds and financially supported our troops while they were defending our country,” Palazzo said. “This legislation would allow for the patriots of today’s era to help support American security in the same way as previous generations.”

“The American people are fed up with the political games fueled by the Democrats’ inaction to secure our borders and protect our citizens,” Palazzo said. “In November of 2016, Americans voted for better border security and as vice chairman of the Homeland Security Appropriations Subcommittee, I believe this legislation allows new alternatives for our citizens to support their values and defend our homeland.”

The press release announcing the bill “directs the Secretary of the Treasury to issue government savings bonds, known as ‘Border Bonds,’ specifically for the construction of a physical barrier on the United States border with Mexico, as well as related technology, and improved infrastructure.”

This bill, if it becomes law, would also establish the “Border Bonds Trust Fund” in the U.S. Treasury.

Kolfage said he is also looking into other options for making sure the money goes to wall construction.

“We are working with a law firm on a legal document that will bind the government to using the funds for the border wall itself, nothing else,” Kolfage wrote on his Go Fund Me page.

Kolfage also shares his website, brianKolfage.com, which tells the story of what he and his wife and children have been through as a military family.

“I’ve been on Fox News many times, you can see I’m credible and a real person,” Kolfage wrote. “The Gary Sinise Foundation also built me and my family a home.”

“Let’s get this wall built! Kolfage wrote. “And make America Safe Again!”

Anti Federalist

12-20-2018, 12:06 PM

has anyone here actually sent money towards this?

I'm on the fence.

I'm leaning towards sending them a Benjamin.

angelatc

12-20-2018, 12:38 PM

I'm on the fence.

I'm leaning towards sending them a Benjamin.

I might. The libertarian in me hates a fence. The pragmatic me hates the unfettered welfare draw. And the libertarian in me also likes the self-funding.

If we do a wall, we can do roads!

juleswin

12-20-2018, 12:46 PM

Libertarian wall? I like that, but is it going to be built on legitimately acquired land or are they going to use eminent domain t steal it?

This stunt is going to fail, just like the campaign promise.

Anti Federalist

12-20-2018, 01:16 PM

The libertarian in me hates a fence.

Really?

I find nothing is more libertarian than a good wall.

Yours here, mine here.

You mind your business, I'll mind mine.

shakey1

12-20-2018, 01:29 PM

I might. The libertarian in me hates a fence. The pragmatic me hates the unfettered welfare draw. And the libertarian in me also likes the self-funding.

If we do a wall, we can do roads!

Sounds just crazy enough to work.

PAF

12-20-2018, 01:51 PM

“Ron Paul: “I was thinking the other day, how could I ever support any money for the wall, I don’t like the wall.”

Anybody who has been paying attention, knows that America was not founded on Walls. Walls are the anti-thesis to liberty, freedom and fiscal responsibility.

The real issues, such as welfare, are not being addressed. Interesting that while people tell me that welfare can’t be eliminated, people find it easy to coalesce quickly to build a 2,000 mile wall like there is no tomorrow.

This wall, if built, will underscore US imperialism so that future generations will have long forgotten the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights, which are not just for Americans, but ALL human beings.

There is a clear and distinct difference between protecting our borders, and building and establishing what we have fought; Hitler, Gorbachev, and other empirical states, borders, barriers, both physical and of the mind.

Schifference

12-20-2018, 01:53 PM

Congress should just get together and pass a bill that all property owners on the border must pay for and construct a wall or face penalties, fines, and or imprisonment.

phill4paul

12-20-2018, 02:01 PM

the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights, which are not just for Americans, but ALL human beings.

As long as they practice them within their own borders I'm good with that.

PAF

12-20-2018, 02:02 PM

Congress should just get together and pass a bill that all property owners on the border must pay for and construct a wall or face penalties, fines, and or imprisonment.

Trump the so-called republican should have fire-side chats explaining to the American people how socialism and paying for things we do not need destroys. Otherwise, why vote “republican” in the first place, if he continues to tax and spend.

PAF

12-20-2018, 02:04 PM

As long as they practice them within their own borders I'm good with that.

Build you own wall on your own property on your own dime. Do not tread on me.

AuH20

12-20-2018, 02:05 PM

dannno

12-20-2018, 02:07 PM

Build you own wall on your own property on your own dime. Do not tread on me.

The welfare state is treading on me and you a lot harder than a border wall..

PAF

12-20-2018, 02:10 PM

The welfare state cannot be legally dismantled. The enemy has erected a vicious, interlaced legal barrier around it.

http://citizensjournal.us/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/milton-friedman-open-borders.jpg

Wow. Just wow, that after the ban, omnibus, Medicare for all, stop & frisk, talk of biometrics, etc, you all jump on the trump bandwagon as if he’s doing you a tremendous favor. NY Lib destroying the “liberty” movement from within.

No thanks. I’ll stand by Ron Paul. I will never be trumped.

AuH20

12-20-2018, 02:12 PM

Wow. Just wow, that after the ban, omnibus, Medicare for all, stop & frisk, talk of biometrics, etc, you all jump on the trump bandwagon as if he’s doing you a tremendous favor. NY Lib destroying the “liberty” movement from within.

No thanks. I’ll stand by Ron Paul. I will never be trumped.

This isn't about Trump. This is the LAST RESORT they have left us. Look at the states that have been overruled when they attempt to cut aid and services to illegals. Build the wall in the convenient spots of entry and put a large obstacle in their way. It's simply too easy these days for the foreign dependents. I'd love to cut all the welfare, but we'll never see the day with the loaded justice system. We could have done it the easy way, but now we have to be hard-asses.

PAF

12-20-2018, 02:14 PM

The welfare state is treading on me and you a lot harder than a border wall..

What MSFox do you watch? My taxes have been the same for quite a long time. This manufactured crisis as recent as it is hasn’t done a thing other than coalesce around a NY Lib.

Swordsmyth

12-20-2018, 02:16 PM

The welfare state cannot be legally dismantled. The enemy has erected a vicious, interlaced legal barrier around it.

http://citizensjournal.us/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/milton-friedman-open-borders.jpg

A tourniquet cuts off circulation and is therefore not good for your health but it may be required to save your life until you can be treated for a severed artery.

Border/immigration control is actually necessary without a welfare state but you would think that even the anarchists would understand that we need one until we get rid of the welfare state.

The same thing is true of free trade and a regulatory state as well.

Swordsmyth

12-20-2018, 02:17 PM

What MSFox do you watch? My taxes have been the same for quite a long time. This manufactured crisis as recent as it is hasn’t done a thing other than coalesce around a NY Lib.
What planet do you live on? there are more than 20 MILLION invaders in the country and the crisis has been acute for decades.

PAF

12-20-2018, 02:21 PM

What planet do you live on? there are more than 20 MILLION invaders in the country and the crisis has been acute for decades.

20 Million “invaders”? You counted them all up, or used reliable govt stats? Soon enough I will be putting you on “ignore”, statist.

dannno

12-20-2018, 02:25 PM

What MSFox do you watch? My taxes have been the same for quite a long time. This manufactured crisis as recent as it is hasn’t done a thing other than coalesce around a NY Lib.

I don't have TV.. all I have is raw data

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8GNCDYW4AUf41L.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8GNmFQX0AApXM9.jpg

Then there is the whole voting issue..

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEts4rqXUAAKVBZ.jpg

Swordsmyth

12-20-2018, 02:27 PM

20 Million “invaders”? You counted them all up, or used reliable govt stats? Soon enough I will be putting you on “ignore”, statist.
That number is from a study by a liberal university that has a motivation to underestimate the number.

dean.engelhardt

12-20-2018, 02:59 PM

All of government should be funded by go fund me contributions.

Exactly! They could start the GoFundGov.com. You should be able to direct were you want your money to go, If you want to support a war, you select which war. If you want your money to pay for Medicare, you select that also. You should be able to pay off your favorite congressman's aid for sexual harassment!

Every penny needs to be 100% tax deductible. To keep things even, I suppose every dollar sent n is matched 50% of borrowed money???????

Anti Federalist

12-20-2018, 03:31 PM

PAF

12-20-2018, 03:36 PM

Utterly untrue.

I am, literally, looking out my window into the woods of my property, defined by a typical New England stone wall, as I type this.

That wall has defined the boundaries of my property since 1754.

Walls are essential for defining property and ownership rights, which are the primary cornerstones of all libertarian philosophy.

As I look out my window at my “private property” fence, too. Private property rights are indeed primary cornerstones. As are the private property rights of those who live near/on the border in Texas... you are meddling into the affairs of others, across state lines even, which is NOT a cornerstone of liberty, “Anti Federalist”.

Schifference

12-20-2018, 03:41 PM

As I look out my window at my “private property” fence, too. Private property rights are indeed primary cornerstones. As are the private property rights of those who live near/on the border in Texas... you are meddling into the affairs of others, across state lines even, which is NOT a cornerstone of liberty.

I am not sure how property rights are handled next to the border. In many areas the city owns so many feet from the center line of the street. So even though you have grass that you cut and a sidewalk that you maintain, the city can still make the road bigger or take over some of the property you think you own.

Anti Federalist

12-20-2018, 03:42 PM

As I look out my window at my “private property” fence, too. Private property rights are indeed primary cornerstones. As are the private property rights of those who live near/on the border in Texas... you are meddling into the affairs of others, across state lines even, which is NOT a cornerstone of liberty.

My understanding is that the vast majority of people on the border want a wall erected.

A cornerstone of liberty certainly is protection from invasion.

Would you prefer we line up with guns and shoot them?

Anti Federalist

12-20-2018, 03:45 PM

As I look out my window at my “private property” fence, too. Private property rights are indeed primary cornerstones. As are the private property rights of those who live near/on the border in Texas... you are meddling into the affairs of others, across state lines even, which is NOT a cornerstone of liberty, “Anti Federalist”

And besides, that is not what you said:

Anybody who has been paying attention, knows that America was not founded on Walls. Walls are the anti-thesis to liberty, freedom and fiscal responsibility.
When obviously walls are vital to property rights.

PAF

12-20-2018, 03:50 PM

And besides, that is not what you said:

When obviously walls are vital to property rights.

I have written enough stating E/W Berlin Walls, never about private property walls which are completely different.

PAF

12-20-2018, 03:53 PM

I am not sure how property rights are handled next to the border. In many areas the city owns so many feet from the center line of the street. So even though you have grass that you cut and a sidewalk that you maintain, the city can still make the road bigger or take over some of the property you think you own.

The city? Or the Fed, trump or folks from an entirely different state?

Schifference

12-20-2018, 03:56 PM

The city? Or the Fed, trump or folks from an entirely different state?

I don't know but if the city can claim ownership next to the road, I would think the US could claim ownership next to the border.

PAF

12-20-2018, 03:59 PM

I don't know but if the city can claim ownership next to the road, I would think the US could claim ownership next to the border.

Well, it all starts at Private Property, your home, then city, then state, then Fed. At least I know where everyone’s emphasis is in this liberty movement, turning it upside down. I gues RP didn’t speak enough or loud enough for folks to heed.

Swordsmyth

12-20-2018, 04:01 PM

I don't know but if the city can claim ownership next to the road, I would think the US could claim ownership next to the border.
Borders are different than other places, it is the duty of the federal government to defend the border and they must have a right to do things that are required to perform that duty.

PAF

12-20-2018, 04:10 PM

Borders are different than other places, it is the duty of the federal government to defend the border and they must have a right to do things that are required to perform that duty.

Yes. Listen to Swordy. He is more expert and credible than Ron Paul, or anybody else for that matter.

Do what is necessary. Build Berlin Walls. Keep building higher and better. Higher even. And when that doesn’t work after billions upon billions and Feds swarm like flies on crap, shoot to kill. Murder all of them. Biometrics to distinguish between them and us.

Don’t even go near the welfare honey pot. That is impossible.

Swordy, please have a serious talk with Ron Paul about this. He maintains his consistency, even just hours ago, that the wall will not work. Please pound some sense into that thick skull of his. I’m certain beyond a shadow of a doubt that if he listens to you, you will be on your high for decades to come. Then you can write a book.

Anti Federalist

12-20-2018, 04:12 PM

Well, it all starts at Private Property, your home, then city, then state, then Fed. At least I know where everyone’s emphasis is in this liberty movement, turning it upside down. I gues RP didn’t speak enough or loud enough for folks to heed.

Ron Paul voted for the "Secure Fence Act" in 2006, authorizing 700 miles of Texas border fence. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ron_Paul)

Anti Federalist

12-20-2018, 04:14 PM

Don’t even go near the welfare honey pot. That is impossible.

Yes, it is, in today's current political climate, with tens of millions of foreign invaders voting UniParty Progressives into power.

Convince me otherwise.

Show me your plan to convince the AmeriKunt people to ditch the welfare state in toto.

Swordsmyth

12-20-2018, 04:14 PM

Yes. Listen to Swordy. He is more expert and credible than Ron Paul, or anybody else for that matter.

Do what is necessary. Build Berlin Walls. Keep building higher and better. Higher even. And when that doesn’t work after billions upon billions and Feds swarm like flies on crap, shoot to kill. Murder all of them. Biometrics to distinguish between them and us.

Don’t even go near the welfare honey pot. That is impossible.

Swordy, please have a serious talk with Ron Paul about this. He maintains his consistency, even just hours ago, that the wall will not work. Please pound some sense into that thick skull of his. I’m certain beyond a shadow of a doubt that if he listens to you, you will be on your high for decades to come. Then you can write a book.
:rolleyes:

I don't even support the wall.

I want a massive increase in patrols and a reformation of our immigration laws and an end to welfare for immigrants legal or illegal if we can't end it for everyone but Ron is in favor of securing our border and it isn't anywhere near secure right now.

Swordsmyth

12-20-2018, 04:15 PM

Swordsmyth

12-20-2018, 04:15 PM

Ron Paul voted for the "Secure Fence Act" in 2006, authorizing 700 miles of Texas border fence. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ron_Paul)
You spread some reputation around.........................

PAF

12-20-2018, 04:26 PM

:rolleyes:

I don't even support the wall.

Yes you do. And also your above response.

Border/immigration control is actually necessary without a welfare state but you would think that even the anarchists would understand that we need one until we get rid of the welfare state.

Put that wall up and squeeze very very hard, waiting for welfare to end, after pumping billions upon billions into that wall. We’ll be all militarized by then and then see how far you’ll get with any such liberty efforts.

When you sacrifice... yadda yadda.

Swordsmyth

12-20-2018, 04:31 PM

Yes you do. And also your above response.
I do not and I have always made that clear.

Put that wall up and squeeze very very hard, waiting for welfare to end, after pumping billions upon billions into that wall. We’ll be all militarized by then and then see how far you’ll get with any such liberty efforts.
Do nothing about the border and we will be Venezuela in record time, then we will see how far you will get with such liberty efforts.

When you sacrifice... yadda yadda.
Balance is required in all things, if liberty isn't secured you will lose it and not deserve it.

PAF

12-20-2018, 04:32 PM

Yes, it is, in today's current political climate, with tens of millions of foreign invaders voting UniParty Progressives into power.

Convince me otherwise.

Show me your plan to convince the AmeriKunt people to ditch the welfare state in toto.

Well I’ve never heard of talk of walls to this extreme extent until everybody started coalescing after trumps big speech. If people put this much energy into actual liberty solutions instead of beefing up this militarized state... your screen name does not fit your positions.

Swordsmyth

12-20-2018, 04:40 PM

Well I’ve never heard of talk of walls to this extreme extent until everybody started coalescing after trumps big speech. If people put this much energy into actual liberty solutions instead of beefing up this militarized state... your screen name does not fit your positions.
People won't and we must secure our border until we can convince them to.

Anti Federalist

12-20-2018, 05:03 PM

Well I’ve never heard of talk of walls to this extreme extent until everybody started coalescing after trumps big speech. If people put this much energy into actual liberty solutions instead of beefing up this militarized state... your screen name does not fit your positions.

Yeah not the first time I heard that.

Now, show me your plan.

What have you got, that in thirty plus years of doing this, I have not tried already?

Take all the time you need...

Ender

12-20-2018, 05:09 PM

Yeah not the first time I heard that.

Now, show me your plan.

What have you got, that in thirty plus years of doing this, I have not tried already?

Take all the time you need...

Time to get your kilt on Wallace. ;)

As for me, I don't want a freakin' wall. RP was very explicit on what a wall would actually be used for- and it ain't more freedom.

Anti Federalist

12-20-2018, 05:17 PM

Time to get your kilt on Wallace. ;)

As for me, I don't want a freakin' wall. RP was very explicit on what a wall would actually be used for- and it ain't more freedom.

LOL - no kidding.

But seriously, there was a only a little snark intended...I'd really like somebody to present to me a way in which the welfare state, which we all agree is one of the primary motivators of the migrant hordes, can be abolished, completely, in this current political environment, outside of revolution or secession or financial collapse.

I am all ears...

phill4paul

12-20-2018, 05:28 PM

LOL - no kidding.

But seriously, there was a only a little snark intended...I'd really like somebody to present to me a way in which the welfare state, which we all agree is one of the primary motivators of the migrant hordes, can be abolished, completely, in this current political environment, outside of revolution or secession or financial collapse.

I am all ears...

There is no way. That is why whenever you ask of a certain someone what their plan is they do not answer.

Swordsmyth

12-20-2018, 05:30 PM

PAF

12-20-2018, 06:10 PM

Well folks, if you don’t know the answer by now, you never will. I’ve stated how several times on this forum, RP has said it too.

This anarchist fairy is in progress, making my voice heard. I got one letter back today via email that is great news to us who have ground-swelled our area. Whether you do the same is up to you.

Of course, we are now fighting not just the left and the neocons, but now some of you too.

Though Pat Toomey has been on my crap list for some time, I believe he now understands our very polite request.

Anti Federalist

12-20-2018, 06:18 PM

AuH20

12-20-2018, 10:06 PM

They are petrified.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/12/washington-post-reporter-tries-to-get-gofundme-border-wall-fundraiser-taken-down/

Champ

12-20-2018, 10:50 PM

I love this thread. Really is testing the will of what we are willing to do to ensure we have liberty.

If this idea sucks, then we need to hear better, we need to hear smarter, we need something that will work in the name of fighting for and protecting liberty. Complaining as it turns out, will result in nothing being accomplished.

specsaregood

12-20-2018, 10:58 PM

So go ahead and repeat it again, maybe we missed it the first time around.

Lay out your plan to convince AmeriKunts to abolish the entire welfare state at the voting booth.

You can't argue ways to better a country with an anarchist as their only goal is to collapse the country. It is pointless. They WANT the country to get worse.

Swordsmyth

12-20-2018, 11:03 PM

You can't argue ways to better a country with an anarchist as their only goal is to collapse the country. It is pointless. They WANT the country to get worse.
:directhit::100::trophy:

dannno

12-20-2018, 11:04 PM

$10,539,920 of $1.0B goal

https://www.gofundme.com/TheTrumpWall

Ender

12-21-2018, 12:27 AM

LOL - no kidding.

But seriously, there was a only a little snark intended...I'd really like somebody to present to me a way in which the welfare state, which we all agree is one of the primary motivators of the migrant hordes, can be abolished, completely, in this current political environment, outside of revolution or secession or financial collapse.

I am all ears...

You just answered it.

More government is not going to make more freedom- we all know this.

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 12:36 AM

You just answered it.

More government is not going to make more freedom- we all know this.
Let me know when you have a plan for causing revolution or secession or financial collapse and how being flooded with foreign communists will make liberty more likely in the aftermath.

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 12:38 AM

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Anti Federalist http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=6723026#post6723026)

LOL - no kidding.

But seriously, there was a only a little snark intended...I'd really like somebody to present to me a way in which the welfare state, which we all agree is one of the primary motivators of the migrant hordes, can be abolished, completely, in this current political environment, outside of revolution or secession or financial collapse.

I am all ears...

You just answered it.

More government is not going to make more freedom- we all know this.

You can't argue ways to better a country with an anarchist as their only goal is to collapse the country. It is pointless. They WANT the country to get worse.

...

Ender

12-21-2018, 01:28 AM

...

I'M NOT an anarchist- I'm a libertarian, Mr. Neocon.

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 01:29 AM

I'M NOT an anarchist- I'm a libertarian, Mr. Neocon.
LOL

Anti Federalist

12-21-2018, 01:46 AM

You just answered it.

More government is not going to make more freedom- we all know this.

I'm just wondering if there is anything else on the table.

I'd rather not live through the first or last.

I'll take secession please.

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 01:50 AM

I'm just wondering if there is anything else on the table.

I'd rather not live through the first or last.

I'll take secession please.
I'm still waiting for an explanation of how we are supposed to get secession or how millions of foreign communists will help.

Last time the Union army was full of immigrants.

Schifference

12-21-2018, 06:11 AM

Over 11 million. As much as I admire funding by donation I see a huge problem. This is like church. People pay tithe and then in addition to tithe there are always special offerings to paint the church, new organ, or this or that.

Raising money from Go Fund Me will not decrease spending.

Maybe there will be legislation one day restraining what qualifies for a Go Fund Me event. Kind of how there is free speech so long as you stand in this spot or how you can be on the sidewalk but cannot stand still.

Power of the purse. Hmm. I think congress should decide what they think would be good and let people or entities fund those 100% with contributions. Eliminate all taxes. Every person whether left, right, or middle can put their money where their mouth is. Make it like a poker game where the players are only able to use the money in front of them and play the cards in their hands. Out of money? Out of the game.

They could make it a game. Have a lottery game specific to a cause. Go in and purchase a Build the Wall Powerball or a planned parenthood scratch and sniff.

EBounding

12-21-2018, 07:53 AM

11 million, wow. That’s almost enough to pay for the community center my town wanted to build!

Superfluous Man

12-21-2018, 08:59 AM

This is a good point to raise in arguing against including any funding for the wall in any federal budgets and answering socialists who think that things like this are the proper role of government, rather than the private sector. I'd love to see Rand, Massie, or Amash bring this up in a floor speech.

Superfluous Man

12-21-2018, 09:02 AM

The other thing this shows is that the American people don't really consider this wall worth the cost. They would never willingly fork out anywhere close to the amount of money it would cost if given the choice between doing that or spending that same money some other way of their choice.

A Son of Liberty

12-21-2018, 10:30 AM

I'm still waiting for an explanation of how we are supposed to get secession or how millions of foreign communists will help.

Last time the Union army was full of immigrants.

So what's the solution when the men standing guard at your wall turn around and point their rifles into the country?

devil21

12-21-2018, 10:35 AM

So what's the solution when the men standing guard at your wall turn around and point their rifles into the country?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esp-ruhkZqQ

Superfluous Man

12-21-2018, 10:48 AM

I'm still waiting for an explanation of how we are supposed to get secession or how millions of foreign communists will help.

Last time the Union army was full of immigrants.

The only serious prospect of secession in the US right now is coming from Communists in California.

Origanalist

12-21-2018, 10:53 AM

These lovely folks are doxxing people who donate;

1075977734004895745

Anti Federalist

12-21-2018, 12:00 PM

The only serious prospect of secession in the US right now is coming from Communists in California.

And we should be doing everything in our power to get them to do so.

AmeriKunts will never revolt or secede in favor of liberty.

devil21

12-21-2018, 01:49 PM

$10,539,920 of $1.0B goal

https://www.gofundme.com/TheTrumpWall

Quick math says current donation rate will meet the $1B goal in 314 days. $5B gov't cost figure will be met in 4 years 4 months.

Superfluous Man

12-21-2018, 01:52 PM

Quick math says current donation rate will meet the $1B goal in 314 days. $5B gov't cost figure will be met in 4 years 4 months.

Riiiiiight.

Schifference

12-21-2018, 01:56 PM

Quick math says current donation rate will meet the $1B goal in 314 days. $5B gov't cost figure will be met in 4 years 4 months.

Would you predict donation rate stays the same, diminishes over time, or increases over time?

devil21

12-21-2018, 01:57 PM

Riiiiiight.

Why do you hate math?

Would you predict donation rate stays the same, diminishes over time, or increases over time?

Probably increase in the very short term then falling off quite drastically in the longer term, with the average current rate of $3m per day dropping to a trickle once the short-term virtue signaling buzz effect has worn off and still no wall appearing.

Superfluous Man

12-21-2018, 02:03 PM

Why do you hate math?

Not the math, but the assumptions.

PAF

12-21-2018, 02:13 PM

devil21

12-21-2018, 02:18 PM

$12,752,379

That much money, that many people, proud and excited that they utilize shackles and growth of government. I am wondering how many of them voted the likes of romney, cristy, kasich, et al, and rejected the principled philosophy of Ron Paul, even Rand.

Some people's BPDS (Brown People Derangement Syndrome) is stronger than any other DS. Deyturkerjerbs and all.

dannno

12-21-2018, 02:29 PM

$12,752,379

That much money, that many people, proud and excited that they utilize shackles and growth of government. I am wondering how many of them voted the likes of romney, cristy, kasich, et al, and rejected the principled philosophy of Ron Paul, even Rand.

It's self defense against bigger government.

If we had a free society, it wouldn't be necessary.. but the govt is fast tracking migrants here, paying them like prostitutes, so they come in an vote Democrat, more government, more socialism.

dannno

12-21-2018, 02:30 PM

Some people's BPDS (Brown People Derangement Syndrome) is stronger than any other DS. Deyturkerjerbs and all.

Wrong..

I used to think that, I used to give LibertyEagle a lot of shit saying the same thing, we would go on for pages and pages of threads...

I admit I was wrong.

dannno

12-21-2018, 02:34 PM

Picture it's winter, and you need to keep the fire going. The fire represents freedom. State power represents pouring water on the fire and smothering it.

Our country had a pretty good fire going, but they have been trying to smother it for a long time. But it was a big hot fire, and hard to smother completely.

The wall allows us to rekindle the fire, get it burning hot again.. then we can think about helping other countries and other people rekindle their fires of freedom.

A Son of Liberty

12-21-2018, 02:41 PM

It's self defense against bigger government.

Yeah, building a cage is "self-defense against bigger government".

The best you could get away with is, "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

dannno

12-21-2018, 02:48 PM

Yeah, building a cage is "self-defense against bigger government".

The best you could get away with is, "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

No, not really. A border wall is not optimal, but it is a lot less restrictive than more big govt. socialism.

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 03:01 PM

So what's the solution when the men standing guard at your wall turn around and point their rifles into the country?
I don't support the wall but I do support increased patrols.

The answer is the same as it ever was: Fight back, only we won't have to fight them and an army of communist immigrants reinforcing them.

phill4paul

12-21-2018, 03:02 PM

So what's the solution when the men standing guard at your wall turn around and point their rifles into the country?

Answer in kind. Next question?

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 03:03 PM

Some people's BPDS (Brown People Derangement Syndrome) is stronger than any other DS. Deyturkerjerbs and all.
It has nothing to do with race, I don't want millions of Swedes coming her and voting Demoncrat either.

devil21

12-21-2018, 03:04 PM

No, not really. A border wall is not optimal, but it is a lot less restrictive than more big govt. socialism.

Except the Cloward-Piven strategy, which has been used to get us to this point, identifies the desired end result as a collapsed society ripe for implementing outright authoritarian socialism (or fascism, two sides of same authoritarian coin) instead of the soft socialism that facilitated the collapse.

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 03:10 PM

The only serious prospect of secession in the US right now is coming from Communists in California.
So secession isn't an option for restoring liberty unless we can make liberals mad enough to secede, first in California and then in other states when the loss of California makes them angry because they can't control the federal government without California.

How are we supposed to achieve that if we allow millions of invaders to come and vote Demoncrat?

The other options are revolution or collapse, not only is either one a bad idea if we can make progress towards liberty without them but having millions of communist invaders in the country will make the likely outcome of either one a communist dictatorship NOT a libertarian anarchy.

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 03:11 PM

Except the Cloward-Piven strategy, which has been used to get us to this point, identifies the desired end result as a collapsed society ripe for implementing outright authoritarian socialism (or fascism, two sides of same authoritarian coin) instead of the soft socialism that facilitated the collapse.
Which is why we should try to reverse things without a collapse and that requires that we stop the invasion.

Anti Federalist

12-21-2018, 03:15 PM

Some people's BPDS (Brown People Derangement Syndrome) is stronger than any other DS. Deyturkerjerbs and all.

Why do you assume ethnicity is primary motivating factor here?

You do realize I would be equally opposed to lily white European big government addicts?

Anti Federalist

12-21-2018, 03:17 PM

Yeah, building a cage is "self-defense against bigger government".

The best you could get away with is, "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

If you effectively closed the border, then the 100 mile "Constitution Free Zones" could be done away with.

devil21

12-21-2018, 03:34 PM

Why do you assume ethnicity is primary motivating factor here?

You do realize I would be equally opposed to lily white European big government addicts?

If it were 20 million blond well-built swedish women, to use SS's example, I doubt there would be any such uproar. Perhaps maybe not from you, per se, but in general, yes I do believe that the response would be much, much different. Genetic tribalism is a thing.

Anti Federalist

12-21-2018, 03:41 PM

If it were 20 million blond well-built swedish women, to use SS's example, I doubt there would be any such uproar. Perhaps maybe not from you, per se, but in general, yes I do believe that the response would be much, much different. Genetic tribalism is a thing.

It certainly is, and I've come to realize that, and also to realize that white folks better start learning to play that game pretty fucking quick as well, or end up likes whites in South Africa.

But that doesn't change my outlook on whether I'd be opposed to millions of invading European whites promoting big government or millions of invading South Americans promoting big government.

You make a fair point that maybe most people would view it differently, but that would be short sighted and stupid, AFAIC.

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 04:13 PM

Why do you assume ethnicity is primary motivating factor here?

You do realize I would be equally opposed to lily white European big government addicts?
Because they can't win the argument they are forced to resort to calling us racists.

devil21

12-21-2018, 04:15 PM

It certainly is, and I've come to realize that, and also to realize that white folks better start learning to play that game pretty fucking quick as well, or end up likes whites in South Africa.

A failure of white people to breed, to continue consuming massive amounts of soy products that discourage breeding through emasculation of younger men, continue the gender bending and racial identity confusion, etc is where that demographic problem lies. Understand that none of those are accidents. Very intentional. So once this is accepted as fact, I find the outward anger toward the immigrants themselves and presented solutions to fix the created problem (walls, eg) to be foolish. Those sorts of reactions are exactly what the engineers want and allow for the presentation of such "solutions". Solutions that were the desired result of created problem.

But that doesn't change my outlook on whether I'd be opposed to millions of invading European whites promoting big government or millions of invading South Americans promoting big government.

I think you've fallen a bit too hard for propaganda by shills like SS, who post documented lies like how "Mexico has been socialist since the 1800's". Shoveling a bunch of bullshit at a massive pace. Immigrants don't come here for welfare or to spread communism or big government. They come here for the American Dream (tm) of economic opportunity and the Freedom (tm) that America became known for. Once they arrive, they realize that the roads aren't paved with gold after all, everything here is expensive as hell and then take advantage of the social programs to survive. They also realize that there's not much more Freedom than where they came from. Freedom to choose paper or plastic, maybe.

You make a fair point that maybe most people would view it differently, but that would be short sighted and stupid, AFAIC.

It's human nature and some people in positions of power don't mind taking advantage of it. I live in a big city and there's large immigrant areas nearby. I've never thought they were trying to subvert my life. They look to me like they're just trying to survive like everyone else is. Like I said, if it becomes an issue of demographics then it's up to the people feeling threatened to make the changes necessary, not look toward the same politicians that caused the situation to fix it. IOW, start fuckin' or else...

eta: The mass immigration of the last 20 years has a major economic component that has been missed by most. Every anchor baby is a new debt slave for the bankers to issue new debt money against. They facilitated the migration to keep the debt issuance game going, as other established demographics (white people) were encouraged to breed less and less.

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 04:16 PM

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 04:25 PM

A failure of white people to breed, to continue consuming massive amounts of soy products that discourage breeding through emasculation of younger men, continue the gender bending and racial identity confusion, etc is where that demographic problem lies. Understand that none of those are accidents. Very intentional. So once this is accepted as fact, I find the outward anger toward the immigrants themselves and presented solutions to fix the created problem (walls, eg) to be foolish. Those sorts of reactions are exactly what the engineers want and allow for the presentation of such "solutions". Solutions that were the desired result of created problem.
If a ship has a hole on the port side that doesn't mean that staying the course into the path of a torpedo headed for the starboard side won't make things worse, we might be able to repair the damage of the first hole if we don't let a second hole sink us.

I think you've fallen a bit too hard for propaganda by shills like SS, who post documented lies like how "Mexico has been socialist since the 1800's". Shoveling a bunch of bull$#@! at a massive pace. Immigrants don't come here for welfare. They come here for the American Dream (tm) of economic opportunity and the Freedom (tm) that America became known for. Once they arrive, they realize that the roads aren't paved with gold after all, everything here is expensive as hell and then take advantage of the social programs to survive. They also realize that there's not much more Freedom than where they came from. Freedom to choose paper or plastic, maybe.
Mexico and the rest of S. America has been culturally socialist since the 1800's and they have had more socialism in their governments than we have since then even when they didn't have an outright socialist government.

An example:

First of all, it is merely an impression that Venezuela was indeed prosperous in a healthy way at some point in the past. The large-scale exploitation of its rich oil reserves, first discovered before the Spanish conquest, began only in 1910. Before, Simon Bolivar’s 1811 decree stated national ownership of all domestic mines and production was minimal at first.
More at: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?529363-Venezuela-s-Crisis-What-s-Oil-Got-To-Do-With-It

Also I will ask again and expect the same lack of answer I always get: WHY DO THE SAME PEOPLE WHO TELL ME ENDING WELFARE WILL SOLVE THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION PROBLEM TURN AROUND AND TELL ME THEY DON"T COME HERE FOR THE WELFARE?

It's human nature and some people in positions of power don't mind taking advantage of it. I live in a big city and there's large immigrant areas nearby. I've never thought they were trying to subvert my life. They look to me like they're just trying to survive like everyone else is. Like I said, if it becomes an issue of demographics then it's up to the people feeling threatened to make the changes necessary, not look toward the same politicians that caused the situation to fix it. IOW, start $#@!in' or else...
In our republic the ultimate responsibility lies with the voters who elect the politicians and those immigrants vote for Demoncrat communists by an overwhelming margin, they ARE trying to survive but they are trying to survive by subverting you and I.

devil21

12-21-2018, 04:41 PM

If a ship has a hole on the port side that doesn't mean that staying the course into the path of a torpedo headed for the starboard side won't make things worse, we might be able to repair the damage of the first hole if we don't let a second hole sink us.

Like I said, start fuckin' or else. They're already here and already dropping 2,3,4 and more babies. Having said that, the economic picture in this country is deteriorating as global dollar standard dies so it's kinda dumb to advocate for penning yourself in right when things start going downhill. (eta: keep arguing about walls and immigrants while your 401k is being drained)

Mexico and the rest of S. America has been culturally socialist since the 1800's and they have had more socialism in their governments than we have since then even when they didn't have an outright socialist government.

An example:

More at: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?529363-Venezuela-s-Crisis-What-s-Oil-Got-To-Do-With-It

You always equate government actions with the will of the people, for some reason. Do you seriously think Venezuelans are fans of socialism right now and want to spread it??? They're struggling to even eat reliably! V's oil is entirely state and Big Oil controlled. Stop equating government actions with what the people want. It's sort of ironic that you do that since we can't even get our own government to do 1/4 of the shit we want them to do.

Also I will ask again and expect the same lack of answer I always get: WHY DO THE SAME PEOPLE WHO TELL ME ENDING WELFARE WILL SOLVE THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION PROBLEM TURN AROUND AND TELL ME THEY DON"T COME HERE FOR THE WELFARE?

Welfare isn't why they come but it is how they are able to stay. Big difference. The safety net that has been created by BOTH parties allows immigrants who would show up and quickly realize that the roads aren't paved with gold, to stay, when without the welfare state, they would return home and tell everyone else that the "American Dream and Freedom" is a big lie and they'd stay where they are. Or economically succeed and only those that can hang would come. Instead, they get here and realize it's not what they were told but can sorta hang if they get on welfare and that becomes the message they pass to others back home. If you can't hang you can get on welfare.

In our republic the ultimate responsibility lies with the voters who elect the politicians and those immigrants vote for Demoncrat communists by an overwhelming margin, they ARE trying to survive but they are trying to survive by subverting you and I.

No, looking towards politicians is always a recipe for failure (see my sig). It's up to the populations themselves to save themselves. Start fuckin' or else...

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 04:55 PM

Like I said, start $#@!in' or else. They're already here and already dropping 2,3,4 and more babies. Having said that, the economic picture in this country is deteriorating as global dollar standard dies so it's kinda dumb to advocate for penning yourself in right when things start going downhill.
I don't know of any place to go that will be any better and fi we are to have any hope of saving the US or parts thereof we must stop the invasion before their numbers are overwhelming.

You always equate government actions with the will of the people, for some reason. Do you seriously think Venezuelans are fans of socialism right now and want to spread it??? They're struggling to even eat reliably! V's oil is entirely state and Big Oil controlled. Stop equating government actions with what the people want. It's sort of ironic that you do that since we can't even get our own government to do 1/4 of the $#@! we want them to do.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQVGoFzkmtxnrw6yGqvMGU9AX2OV94ti 2VfSabdf4smieyruYr4NQ

I'm sorry but we can't read the minds of the people who voted for Chavez and then voted for Maduro to tell which ones broke the cycle.
Mexico just voted for AMLO and the other countries all are more socialist than the US (bad as we are), the voting patterns of the immigrants who come here are clear and letting them continue to flood in will result in a victory for communism even if we start a revolution.

Welfare isn't why they come but it is how they are able to stay. Big difference. The safety net that has been created by BOTH parties allows immigrants who would show up and quickly realize that the roads aren't paved with gold, to stay, when without the welfare state, they would return home and tell everyone else that the "American Dream and Freedom" is a big lie and they'd stay where they are. Or economically succeed and only those that can hang would come. Instead, they get here and realize it's not what they were told but can sorta hang if they get on welfare and that becomes the message they pass to others back home.

That's nonsense, the liberal NGOs and our own state department have advertised that they can get welfare if they come here and that is why many of them come, it also doesn't matter why they come because they vote to turn us into a socialist country like the one they came from after they get here, think of Californians on steroids.

No, looking towards politicians is always a recipe for failure (see my sig). It's up to the populations themselves to save themselves. Start $#@!in' or else...
When you are ready to start a shooting revolution let me know, until then I will do what I can to keep the enemy from flooding us with so many invaders that you can't possibly win.

PAF

12-21-2018, 05:33 PM

devil21

12-21-2018, 05:35 PM

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQVGoFzkmtxnrw6yGqvMGU9AX2OV94ti 2VfSabdf4smieyruYr4NQ

I'm sorry but we can't read the minds of the people who voted for Chavez and then voted for Maduro to tell which ones broke the cycle.
Mexico just voted for AMLO and the other countries all are more socialist than the US (bad as we are), the voting patterns of the immigrants who come here are clear and letting them continue to flood in will result in a victory for communism even if we start a revolution.

Voting in 3rd world countries. LOL! smh
Our own elections are rigged but a Venezuelan election represents the will of the people? K. Ironic since it was Stalin with the famous quote about who counts the votes.

That's nonsense, the liberal NGOs and our own state department have advertised that they can get welfare if they come here and that is why many of them come, it also doesn't matter why they come because they vote to turn us into a socialist country like the one they came from after they get here, think of Californians on steroids.

They're not "liberal" NGOs and StateDept. It's deep state NGOs and StateDept....CIA....NSA.....doing the bidding of foreign powers. They're not political party oriented.
Did it occur to you that immigrants vote for Democrats because it is Democrats that court their votes? Why would a voting immigrant vote for the party that, by all outward appearances, hates them and wants them gone? It is another "human nature" perspective to consider. I wouldn't vote for a party that doesn't want my vote, refers to me as an "invader", "rapist", "bad hombre", etc. It's not rocket science to put yourself into someone else's shoes. No doubt they are courted with some promises of welfare, however having personally interacted with hispanic voters I can tell you that it is not their driving force at the polls. They are courted by one party and vote for that party. Again, it's not rocket science.

When you are ready to start a shooting revolution let me know, until then I will do what I can to keep the enemy from flooding us with so many invaders that you can't possibly win.

Keep calling them invaders then wonder why they don't vote for GOP candidates. Sounds like a good strategy to me.

PAF

12-21-2018, 05:42 PM

“You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to devil21 again.“

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 05:48 PM

Voting in 3rd world countries. LOL! smh
Our own elections are rigged but a Venezuelan election represents the will of the people? K. Ironic since it was Stalin with the famous quote about who counts the votes.
That must explain the votes against Maduro's party that he didn't like and responded to by overthrowing their less socialist parliament with new rigged votes.:rolleyes:
THEY DO support more socialism than we have here.

They're not "liberal" NGOs and StateDept. It's deep state NGOs and StateDept....CIA....NSA.....doing the bidding of foreign powers. They're not political party oriented.
Yes they are, the globalists lean left because they want powerful governments to control people with.

Did it occur to you that immigrants vote for Democrats because it is Democrats that court their votes?
ALL votes are counted by Demoncrats in EVERY precinct in EVERY state?
They also happen to campaign for and contribute to the Demoncrats by larger margins than regular Americans.

Why would a voting immigrant vote for the party that, by all outward appearances, hates them and wants them gone? It is another "human nature" perspective to consider. I wouldn't vote for a party that doesn't want my vote, refers to me as an "invader", "rapist", "bad hombre", etc. It's not rocket science to put yourself into someone else's shoes. No doubt they are courted with some promises of welfare, however having personally interacted with hispanic voters I can tell you that it is not their driving force at the polls. They are courted by one party and vote for that party. Again, it's not rocket science.

Keep calling them invaders then wonder why they don't vote for GOP candidates. Sounds like a good strategy to me.
You are putting the cart before the horse and denying reality, we call them socialists because they came from socialist countries and then voted socialist when they got here, we call some of them invaders and criminals because they invaded and commit crimes.

"If only the Chinese hadn't called the Mongols invaders and barbarians they would have not acted that way":rolleyes:

Immigrants from socialist countries are a risk to our liberty that we have a right to limit and if they don't want to let us limit that risk then they are an even greater risk.

dannno

12-21-2018, 05:48 PM

Trying to convince neocons that the wall will in fact reduce liberty, cost more money and increase the size and scope of government is identical to what I experienced down at Tampa.

Wow, again, you are a bit confused.

Neocons want open borders everywhere except Israel.. but they don't want a free society.

I want a free society with open borders.

What I don't want is a country that was formerly relatively free and very prosperous paying immigrants like prostitutes to come and vote for socialism and bankrupt the country.

Since we have such big government already, the wall will increase liberty and cost us less money in the long run. If we had a free society (and so did Mexico), the wall would lead to less freedom.

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 05:55 PM

I remember down at Tampa convention all of the romney folks were chanting USA USA. I tried to tell them that mitt voted for gun bans, raised taxes 7 times and supported women’s right to choose, and that he supported obama’s version of ndaa. They literally wanted to clobber my ass and told me to shut my pie hole and get the f&ck out. I’m not easily threatened so I continued doing what I was there to do - RP2012.

It’s good to reflect on past experiences and share true accounts of history since common core and msm fail to do so.

None of who were down there were illegal immigrants. They were red-blooded Americans directly involved in the process that even most “voters” at the poll locations don’t understand.

Trying to convince neocons that the wall will in fact reduce liberty, cost more money and increase the size and scope of government is identical to what I experienced down at Tampa.

The problem, to me anyway, is not immigrants, but rather my fellow “Americans” who fight to the end for their anti-freedom shills in office who have no regard for people no matter where they are from.

Case in point - look at America, look at Iraq.
The Neocons DON'T want a wall or any kind of decent border enforcement and if you are troubled by your fellow Americans then why do you want to let in people who are worse?

Also this post doesn't answer AF's question as you claimed to him that it does in the other thread:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Anti Federalist http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=6723672#post6723672)

That's a got damned good question.

One I've been asking myself damn near every day for over 40 years.

Riddle me this: how is this situation improved by importing millions of people who are in favor of emulating Nazi Germany?

Or to be totally fair, in favor of the unlimited state that gave rise to Nazi Germany.

HOW DOES LETTING IN PEOPLE WHO ARE WORSE THAN THE PEOPLE WE ALREADY HAVE IMPROVE OUR SITUATION OR HELP US REVERSE IT?

PAF

12-21-2018, 05:56 PM

Wow, again, you are a bit confused.

Neocons want open borders everywhere except Israel.. but they don't want a free society.

I want a free society with open borders.

What I don't want is a country that was formerly relatively free and very prosperous paying immigrants like prostitutes to come and vote for socialism and bankrupt the country.

Since we have such big government already, the wall will increase liberty and cost us less money in the long run. If we had a free society (and so did Mexico), the wall would lead to less freedom.

And you say that I am confused? lol

Try harder next time, dannno.

The thing about principles, is that they are not principles, if you do not stand by them. That’s when all havoc breaks loose.

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 06:06 PM

And you say that I am confused? lol

Try harder next time, dannno.

The thing about principles, is that they are not principles, if you do not stand by them. That’s when all havoc breaks loose.
What measures to secure the border and stop the invasion would you support?

devil21

12-21-2018, 06:12 PM

That must explain the votes against Maduro's party that he didn't like and responded to by overthrowing their less socialist parliament with new rigged votes.:rolleyes:
THEY DO support more socialism than we have here.

The point was that drawing any conclusions from "votes", especially in 3rd world countries, shows a lack of geopolitical awareness.

Yes they are, the globalists lean left because they want powerful governments to control people with.

Seems to me that it's corporations controlling the people with governments merely being hired whores that legislate and enforce regulations that enable the corporate control.

ALL votes are counted by Demoncrats in EVERY precinct in EVERY state?
They also happen to campaign for and contribute to the Demoncrats by larger margins than regular Americans.

Read what I wrote and try again. I rarely, if ever, commit typos.

You are putting the cart before the horse and denying reality, we call them socialists because they came from socialist countries and then voted socialist when they got here, we call some of them invaders and criminals because they invaded and commit crimes.

You really are a collectivist. An exact copy of what you claim to oppose.

"If only the Chinese hadn't called the Mongols invaders and barbarians they would have not acted that way":rolleyes:

The irony of using the CHINESE as an example. Any way, I doubt the Chinese emperors acted any differently than our "emperor" does. Place blame for failed policies then demand labor/energy/money from the people to fix the problem.

Immigrants from socialist countries are a risk to our liberty that we have a right to limit and if they don't want to let us limit that risk then they are an even greater risk.

Our only practical liberty is paper or plastic in the overpriced grocery store check-out line. Wake up. It's all well coordinated manipulation.

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 06:15 PM

The point was that drawing any conclusions from "votes", especially in 3rd world countries, shows a lack of geopolitical awareness.

Seems to me that it's corporations controlling the people with governments merely being hired whores that legislate and enforce regulations that enable the corporate control.

Read what I wrote and try again. I rarely, if ever, commit typos.

You really are a collectivist. An exact copy of what you claim to oppose.

The irony of using the CHINESE as an example. Any way, I doubt the Chinese emperors acted any differently than our "emperor" does. Place blame for failed policies then demand labor/energy/money from the people to fix the problem.

Our only practical liberty is paper or plastic in the overpriced grocery store check-out line. Wake up. It's all well coordinated manipulation.
You live in a state of complete dissociation from reality, when presented with facts you simply deny them.
This conversation is now pointless.

PAF

12-21-2018, 06:17 PM

The Neocons DON'T want a wall or any kind of decent border enforcement and if you are troubled by your fellow Americans then why do you want to let in people who are worse?

Also this post doesn't answer AF's question as you claimed to him that it does in the other thread:

HOW DOES LETTING IN PEOPLE WHO ARE WORSE THAN THE PEOPLE WE ALREADY HAVE IMPROVE OUR SITUATION OR HELP US REVERSE IT?

I have made the same statement time and again. But just for you, here goes:

We have what is called “due process”. You are making an assumption that all immigrants are evil socialists. Granted, there are some, but I do get out in the world.

I can tell you this:

The ones who vote democrat, are do-gooder Americans who don’t understand history and have a guilt complex.

The ones who vote democrat are Section 8 folks who don’t give a crap about my rights as long as they don’t fuck with their welfare.

The ones who vote democrat are also Section 8 folks who have not 1 baby, but multiples of them by different fathers. This increases their free check each and every month, and by having more babies it is a great excuse to not get a job.

The ones who vote democrat are democrats in office.

The ones who vote democrat are republicans (for the most part) in office.

Socialism has been repeated for thousands of years, failing each and every time only to be started again, because it’s easy for people to live like slaves, while also giving the most power to government rulers.

I can also tell you this, I hope it won’t burst your bubble:

Immigrants work the border jobs that Americans do not want.

Immigrants start up dry cleaner companies, restaurants, landscaping and other businesses, as Americans complain about them.

Immigrants who have moved here and established legal status helped and supported RP during his run.

Immigrants are part of my liberty meeting groups, hoping to reduce tax rates and try to find ways to expand their businesses with less overbearing government.

Yes, some immigrants are evil, just like Americans. But to group them into one single heap and blame our country’s problems on them is irresponsible and a cop out.

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 06:26 PM

I have made the same statement time and again. But just for you, here goes:

We have what is called “due process”. You are making an assumption that all immigrants are evil socialists. Granted, there are some, but I do get out in the world.

I can tell you this:

The ones who vote democrat, are do-gooder Americans who don’t understand history and have a guilt complex.

The ones who vote democrat are Section 8 folks who don’t give a crap about my rights as long as they don’t $#@! with their welfare.

The ones who vote democrat are also Section 8 folks who have not 1 baby, but multiples of them by different fathers. This increases their free check each and every month, and by having more babies it is a great excuse to not get a job.

The ones who vote democrat are democrats in office.

The ones who vote democrat are republicans (for the most part) in office.

Socialism has been repeated for thousands of years, failing each and every time only to be started again, because it’s easy for people to live like slaves, while also giving the most power to government rulers.

I can also tell you this, I hope it won’t burst your bubble:

Immigrants work the border jobs that Americans do not want.

Immigrants start up dry cleaner companies, restaurants, landscaping and other businesses, as Americans complain about them.

Immigrants who have moved here and established legal status helped and supported RP during his run.

Immigrants are part of my liberty meeting groups, hoping to reduce tax rates and try to find ways to expand their businesses with less overbearing government.

Yes, some immigrants are evil, just like Americans. But to group them into one single heap and blame our country’s problems on them is irresponsible and a cop out.
Liberal propaganda.

Nobody ever said ALL immigrants are socialists but we can't discern which are and which aren't when they apply for permission to enter or sneak across the border.

They DO vote Demoncrat at higher rates than ordinary Americans and they DO use welfare at higher rates than ordinary Americans.

Due process has nothing to do with foreigners applying for PERMISSION to come here, they DON'T have a RIGHT to come here and we DO have a RIGHT to limit how many come here to limit the risk to our liberty that they DO pose.

Let me know when you develop a mind reading machine that we can put all prospective immigrants in to sort out the socialists and then I will agree to let an unlimited number of non-socialists into the US.

Letting in unlimited numbers of people who are more likely to be socialists than the people we already have here is a recipe for making things worse and for dooming any chance we would have of restoring liberty by any method, even by revolution or rebuilding after a collapse.

devil21

12-21-2018, 06:27 PM

PAF

12-21-2018, 06:30 PM

What measures to secure the border and stop the invasion would you support?

I’m a free market guy. The first thing I’d do is leave people alone. Then I’d create more friendly business zones. This would hopefully create/expand businesses, which would then require more workers.

Sometimes people have to be proactive in life. There are also other times that backing off is a better approach. Governments are expert at “we have to do something”, which more than always gets us in deeper trouble.

I am not worried about immigrants and walls. What I am worried about is my next outreach after the holidays, to continue preaching freedom and liberty. It is the next gen, Americans AND immigrants who are coming up in the world. Rather than alienate them, I’d rather see them better off than me, in regard to freedom, liberty and economic prosperity.

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 06:37 PM

I’m a free market guy. The first thing I’d do is leave people alone. Then I’d create more friendly business zones. This would hopefully create/expand businesses, which would then require more workers.

Sometimes people have to be proactive in life. There are also other times that backing off is a better approach. Governments are expert at “we have to do something”, which more than always gets us in deeper trouble.

I am not worried about immigrants and walls. What I am worried about is my next outreach after the holidays, to continue preaching freedom and liberty. It is the next gen, Americans AND immigrants who are coming up in the world. Rather than alienate them, I’d rather see them better off than me, in regard to freedom, liberty and economic prosperity.
So you are a "No Borders, No Wall, No USA at all" type.

Thanks for clearing that up.

I suggest that you move to California and agitate for CALExit.

PAF

12-21-2018, 06:39 PM

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 06:45 PM

I can spot a neocon miles away, I’ve been at this for a +couple of decades.

The only reason I keep responding is so that if others happen to visit here, they won’t fall prey to false ideas on RPF. Keeping the balance, so to speak. Though I must admit, you and a couple of others are among the strongest and principled posters, much better than I at getting points across.

I can’t rep you anymore, perhaps someone can help out?
Another leftarian that thinks anyone who isn't an anarchist or a Demoncrat must be a NAZI.

dannno

12-21-2018, 06:48 PM

^^^^^^^
Shillsmyth has lots of opinions about people that he's never interacted with in any meaningful way. It's a trend with his posts here. Hispanics, Chinese, Europeans. He's got a lot of opinions about them but being a Mormon, never ventures outside of Salt Lake City lol.

Media approved talking points create his perception of other people and nothing else.

No, swordsmyth is right and he is the furthest thing from a neocon.. PAF has more in common with neocons due to his open borders stance. Neocons love open borders (except Israel).

When we had a free society, migrants came here who liked freedom. If they didn't like freedom or they weren't cut out for making it on their own, then they moved back to their country of origin. In fact, about 1/3 immigrants to the US in the 1800s moved back to where they were from.

However what we have now, with all the social safety nets, we have people moving here who like social safety nets... from cultures who tend to like social safety nets more than ours as a whole. and there are a lot of them. We pay them like prostitutes to come here and vote Democrat. We are not attracting the right people. And when they can't make it, they just end up on welfare. They don't move back.

PAF is completely clueless about what a neocon is. He should watch Ron Paul's Neoconned speech. They pretend to be America First and pro-military to get elected, but then they are actually globalist first/military industrial complex first/Israel first. They don't want border walls because they want a globalist society, outside of Israel. They want to take down America.

PAF doesn't realize he is helping the neocons with their goal of taking down America.

Ron Paul knows that border security is important, he campaigned on it.. even though Ron Paul would like to see the dissolution of borders if we had a free society just like I would. But right now, that is the worst thing you can do. To say it is against principle, well, you can say that, but you're wrong. Because the amount of freedom we lose by opening up the borders and paying foreigners who don't like freedom to come here and vote here is much greater than the amount of freedom we lose by protecting the border.

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 06:52 PM

No, swordsmyth is right and he is the furthest thing from a neocon.. PAF has more in common with neocons due to his open borders stance. Neocons love open borders (except Israel).

When we had a free society, migrants came here who liked freedom. If they didn't like freedom or they weren't cut out for making it on their own, then they moved back to their country of origin. In fact, about 1/3 immigrants to the US in the 1800s moved back to where they were from.

However what we have now, with all the social safety nets, we have people moving here who like social safety nets... from cultures who tend to like social safety nets more than ours as a whole. and there are a lot of them. We pay them like prostitutes to come here and vote Democrat. We are not attracting the right people. And when they can't make it, they just end up on welfare. They don't move back.

PAF is completely clueless about what a neocon is. He should watch Ron Paul's Neoconned speech. They pretend to be America First and pro-military to get elected, but then they are actually globalist first/military industrial complex first/Israel first. They don't want border walls because they want a globalist society, outside of Israel. They want to take down America.

PAF doesn't realize he is helping the neocons with their goal of taking down America.

Ron Paul knows that border security is important, he campaigned on it.. even though Ron Paul would like to see the dissolution of borders if we had a free society just like I would. But right now, that is the worst thing you can do. To say it is against principle, well, you can say that, but you're wrong. Because the amount of freedom we lose by opening up the borders and paying foreigners who don't like freedom to come here and vote here is much greater than the amount of freedom we lose by putting up on a wall on the border.
Out of Rep.

PAF

12-21-2018, 06:56 PM

PAF is completely clueless about what a neocon is. He should watch Ron Paul's Neoconned speech. They pretend to be America First and pro-military to get elected, but then they are actually globalist first/military industrial complex first/Israel first. They don't want border walls because they want a globalist society, outside of Israel. They want to take down America.

PAF doesn't realize he is helping the neocons with their goal of taking down America.

I’m on the Record.

https://app.box.com/s/ncgabkwbrd8wbl5ph1ai

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?436594-2016-Potential-Presidential-Candidates-List-And-Information

What have YOU done?

dannno

12-21-2018, 07:23 PM

I’m on the Record.

https://app.box.com/s/ncgabkwbrd8wbl5ph1ai

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?436594-2016-Potential-Presidential-Candidates-List-And-Information

What have YOU done?

What does that have to do with your understanding of neocon??

I'm glad you called out those RINOs in Tampa, but you don't seem to understand the whole neocon/globalist agenda. That doesn't make you a bad person, but you are somewhat uninformed in that area.

EBounding

12-21-2018, 09:08 PM

:heart:1076239448461987841

Anti Federalist

12-21-2018, 09:32 PM

A failure of white people to breed, to continue consuming massive amounts of soy products that discourage breeding through emasculation of younger men, continue the gender bending and racial identity confusion, etc is where that demographic problem lies. Understand that none of those are accidents. Very intentional. So once this is accepted as fact, I find the outward anger toward the immigrants themselves and presented solutions to fix the created problem (walls, eg) to be foolish. Those sorts of reactions are exactly what the engineers want and allow for the presentation of such "solutions". Solutions that were the desired result of created problem.

I'm not following you here...everything you mentioned in the first part of your reply is very much engineered, no doubt.

But unfettered immigration is just as much a part of that as well.

The engineers are not in favor of stopping that...the entire ruling class (which includes the puppet masters and engineers and controllers and plotters) is in agreement: unlimited immigration from everywhere, forever.

I think you've fallen a bit too hard for propaganda by shills like SS, who post documented lies like how "Mexico has been socialist since the 1800's". Shoveling a bunch of bullshit at a massive pace. Immigrants don't come here for welfare or to spread communism or big government. They come here for the American Dream (tm) of economic opportunity and the Freedom (tm) that America became known for. Once they arrive, they realize that the roads aren't paved with gold after all, everything here is expensive as hell and then take advantage of the social programs to survive. They also realize that there's not much more Freedom than where they came from. Freedom to choose paper or plastic, maybe.

This is not backed up by credible polling data at all. That data shows over and over, by very large majorities, migrant populations vote for and support larger and more intrusive government.

Nor is it backed up in real world experience in California, where the native population has been displaced and now, in large part due to migrant voting patterns, has elected a super-duper progressive socialist mega majority to every branch of state electoral government.

I live in a big city and there's large immigrant areas nearby. I've never thought they were trying to subvert my life. They look to me like they're just trying to survive like everyone else is.

I do not, and for many reasons, I have no desire to live like that.

I have an absolute right to say that and do what I can to preserve my way of life.

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 09:37 PM

Anti Federalist

12-21-2018, 09:39 PM

The total, just FYI, at 2230 EST 21 Dec, is at $13.8 million.

devil21

12-21-2018, 09:45 PM

No, swordsmyth is right and he is the furthest thing from a neocon.. PAF has more in common with neocons due to his open borders stance. Neocons love open borders (except Israel).

Open borders defines neocons? Gee I thought it was military adventurism, bankers, Israel and things like restricted movement and removing freedoms that defined them. I can't see any rational liberterian minded individual thinking PAF is more a neocon than SS because he doesn't support walls. You and SS are the head Trump cheerleaders here and that guy is swimming in neocons.

When we had a free society, migrants came here who liked freedom. If they didn't like freedom or they weren't cut out for making it on their own, then they moved back to their country of origin. In fact, about 1/3 immigrants to the US in the 1800s moved back to where they were from.

Mostly agree. This is only factual part of your entire post.

However what we have now, with all the social safety nets, we have people moving here who like social safety nets... from cultures who tend to like social safety nets more than ours as a whole. and there are a lot of them.

We pay them like prostitutes to come here and vote Democrat. We are not attracting the right people. And when they can't make it, they just end up on welfare. They don't move back.

Poor countries have safety nets? Come on. Seems you don't take even a moment to verify something before you type it. For example, Guatemala hasn't met a single Agenda 21/2030 (socialism) goal. Not one. Why? Because it's an extremely poor country with no financial ability to provide any safety nets. This applies to most Central American countries also. There are no safety nets in dirt poor third world countries...

PAF is completely clueless about what a neocon is. He should watch Ron Paul's Neoconned speech. They pretend to be America First and pro-military to get elected, but then they are actually globalist first/military industrial complex first/Israel first.

They don't want border walls because they want a globalist society, outside of Israel. They want to take down America.

PAF doesn't realize he is helping the neocons with their goal of taking down America.

I'm pretty sure you just described Trump to a tee. It's utterly shocking, shocking I tell you, that Netanyahu's errand boy likes walls and fences...

Ron Paul knows that border security is important, he campaigned on it.. even though Ron Paul would like to see the dissolution of borders if we had a free society just like I would. But right now, that is the worst thing you can do. To say it is against principle, well, you can say that, but you're wrong. Because the amount of freedom we lose by opening up the borders and paying foreigners who don't like freedom to come here and vote here is much greater than the amount of freedom we lose by protecting the border.

I'm gonna need a source for that bolded claim since clearly you're ignoring Ron's debate answer enthusiastically opposing border walls. "That's just not what America is about!" So much talk about freedom yet seeking to emulate the actions of some of the most anti-freedom regimes and anti-freedom periods in history? Building walls have never, ever led to more freedom in the whole of history. Anywhere. Ever. Name one.

I also find it ironic that the freest people on this landmass are the immigrants we're talking about. They already have much, much more freedom (whether they, or you, know it or not is a different story) than any "US Citizen" does. "US Citizens" are legal slaves. Immigrants have no such slave status. Watching you and others spout about freedom in one sentence while denouncing those that actually do have freedom, at least until they voluntarily give it up for state benefits, is rich.

specsaregood

12-21-2018, 09:53 PM

Ron Paul knows that border security is important, he campaigned on it..
I'm gonna need a source for that bolded claim

official campaign ad, seems pretty clear he campaigned on border security.
"The Paul plan for security? Start protecting America's borders..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN4XOJcrhT4

devil21

12-21-2018, 09:58 PM

I'm not following you here...everything you mentioned in the first part of your reply is very much engineered, no doubt.

But unfettered immigration is just as much a part of that as well.

The engineers are not in favor of stopping that...the entire ruling class (which includes the puppet masters and engineers and controllers and plotters) is in agreement: unlimited immigration from everywhere, forever.

That is probably correct and I stated already that I don't expect to see any walls built. However, the fact that you're so quick to wall us all in over your own fears scares the crap out of me.

This is not backed up by credible polling data at all. That data shows over and over, by very large majorities, migrant populations vote for and support larger and more intrusive government.

Nor is it backed up in real world experience in California, where the native population has been displaced and now, in large part due to migrant voting patterns, has elected a super-duper progressive socialist mega majority to every branch of state electoral government.

Polling? My assertion was that Democrats court immigrant voters. Republicans do not and actually do the exact opposite. The Republicans complain that immigrants don't vote for Republicans and instead vote for bigger government. A chicken or egg question perhaps but you can't reasonably expect anyone to vote for a party that clearly doesn't want them and doesn't spend any time trying to win them over. Are they voting for bigger government or are they voting for whoever acts like they actually want their votes??

In many ways we RP supporters should be to relate to that. Remember when the GOP kicked us out of conventions? Broke limbs of delegates? Silenced our RNC delegates? Blacked out coverage on Fox News? It's a minor miracle (or really bad battered wife syndrome) that any RP folks still insist on sticking with the GOP.

I do not, and for many reasons, I have no desire to live like that.

I have an absolute right to say that and do what I can to preserve my way of life.

That would imply that you are also forming opinions based solely on what you see in the media and out of the mouths of politicians and internet mouthpieces. Sure, that's your right I guess.

official campaign ad, seems pretty clear he campaigned on border security.
"The Paul plan for security? Start protecting America's borders..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN4XOJcrhT4

One ad? That's it? I meant Ron himself saying that, especially since he personally stated he opposed border walls.

euphemia

12-21-2018, 10:05 PM

In many ways we RP supporters should be to relate to that. Remember when the GOP kicked us out of conventions? Broke limbs of delegates? Silenced our RNC delegates? Blacked out coverage on Fox News? It's a minor miracle (or really bad battered wife syndrome) that any RP folks still insist on sticking with the GOP.

I saw this on the local level. We still have the video.

specsaregood

12-21-2018, 10:07 PM

One ad? That's it? I meant Ron himself saying that, especially since he personally stated he opposed border walls.

You asked for a source, I provided it. It isn't like his campaign had LOTS of ads. 1 ad is actually pretty darn significant evidence. But you can choose to be delusional, I won't mind.

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 10:10 PM

That is probably correct and I stated already that I don't expect to see any walls built. However, the fact that you're so quick to wall us all in over your own fears scares the crap out of me.
You know what is worse than acting out of fear? Not being afraid of something that should scare you.
https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Flh6.googleusercontent.com%2F-AeLLip-wOec%2FTXtKMgvA0LI%2FAAAAAAAAAD0%2F_DQsIj-cpY8%2Fs1600%2Fmotivational-wile-e-coyote-some-people-just-won-t-learn-from-his-mistakes.jpg&f=1

Polling? My assertion was that Democrats court immigrant voters.
With the free stuff that the immigrants demand.

Republicans do not and actually do the exact opposite. The Republicans complain that immigrants don't vote for Republicans and instead vote for bigger government. A chicken or egg question perhaps but you can't reasonably expect anyone to vote for a party that clearly doesn't want them and doesn't spend any time trying to win them over.
That is Demoncrat propaganda, Republicans have bent over backwards copying the Demoncrats to try and buy immigrant votes but the immigrants still tend to vote for the most socialist party available, notice that they don't vote for open borders libertarians.

In many ways we RP supporters should be to relate to that. Remember when the GOP kicked us out of conventions? Broke limbs of delegates? Silenced our RNC delegates? It's a minor miracle (or really bad battered wife syndrome) that any RP folks still insist on sticking with the GOP.
That is because we actually believe in freedom and will vote for the best available option even if they hurt our feelings, who wants voters that care more about their feelings than liberty?
Immigrants vote Demoncrat because they want free stuff.

That would imply that you are also forming opinions based solely on what you see in the media and out of the mouths of politicians and internet mouthpieces. Sure, that's your right I guess.
Facts are on our side, it isn't just rhetoric, rhetoric is all you have.

enhanced_deficit

12-21-2018, 10:11 PM

That didn't take long, media attacks on the organizer behind this campiagn have begun:

https://www.businessinsider.com/brian-kolfage-behind-trump-wall-gofundme-ran-facebook-conspiracy-page-2018-12

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 10:16 PM

That didn't take long, media attacks on the organizer behind this campiagn have begun:

https://www.businessinsider.com/brian-kolfage-behind-trump-wall-gofundme-ran-facebook-conspiracy-page-2018-12
That liberal MSM talking point seems familiar.

Oh, Yes, here it is:

Hmm....Kolfage is same guy whose FB page was shut down a couple months ago with claimed 3.5million followers (eta: seems it was later unbanned). Judging by random pics on the net of he and his model wife, they've grown quite accustomed to a high standard of living off of his notoriety and probably have some mighty large bills that came along with it. Now I'm not saying this is a scam to bring in money to continue funding that lifestyle but...

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/10/16/facebook-deletes-disabled-veterans-page-without-warning-after-taking-300000-for-ads/

devil21

12-21-2018, 10:24 PM

You know what is worse than acting out of fear? Not being afraid of something that should scare you.
https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Flh6.googleusercontent.com%2F-AeLLip-wOec%2FTXtKMgvA0LI%2FAAAAAAAAAD0%2F_DQsIj-cpY8%2Fs1600%2Fmotivational-wile-e-coyote-some-people-just-won-t-learn-from-his-mistakes.jpg&f=1

Be scared!!!! If da turrists don't get ya, it'll be rapey immigrants. Same style of propaganda that got hemp and mj banned for the last 90 years or whatever. Fear to enforce agendas...used from the days of Babylon and Ancient Egypt and still in use today. Same as it ever was.

With the free stuff that the immigrants demand.

Pop quiz. Who makes up the largest segment of the "Free stuff army"? Who collects the most welfare benefits in the country?

That is Demoncrat propaganda, Republicans have bent over backwards copying the Demoncrats to try and buy immigrant votes but the immigrants still tend to vote for the most socialist party available, notice that they don't vote for open borders libertarians.

It's ok just make up whatever you want. Republicans courting immigrant voters? Every time I think you can't make any more ridiculous claims you find a way to outdo yourself. No one believes that.

That is because we actually believe in freedom and will vote for the best available option even if they hurt our feelings, who wants voters that care more about their feelings than liberty?

So battered wife syndrome it is then.

Facts are on our side, it isn't just rhetoric, rhetoric is all you have.

I have history. You have Yahoo articles.

dannno

12-21-2018, 10:30 PM

Open borders defines neocons? Gee I thought it was military adventurism, bankers, Israel and things like restricted movement and removing freedoms that defined them. I can't see any rational liberterian minded individual thinking/uo PAF is more a neocon than SS because he doesn't support walls. You and SS are the head Trump cheerleaders here and that guy is swimming in neocons.

The goals you want to accomplish and the goals Trump wants to accomplish, you will find, are eerily similar.. not identical, but similar.. However what you underestimate is the difficulty of achieving them. Neocons are smart, they have been trained well and employ extremely devious tactics.. one of which is our welfare state and open border policy for our country.

The neocons were able to make Republicans think that the comic villain Osama Bin Laden was hiding under their beds.

The neocons were able to make Democrats think that the comic book character Charlie Chaplin (Hitler) and Putin are hiding under their beds. Nazis domestic, Russia foreign.. oh my.

Poor countries have safety nets? Come on.

They want them, but can't afford them. Living near the equator is relatively abundant year around, so cultures don't tend to value saving for the winter, or a rainy day, so to speak, as highly. This leads to a tendency for greater instant gratification.

Cultures that thrive in the harsher northern climates have to learn how to save and build infrastructure that can sustain them through very difficult times. They have to learn how to delay gratification and prepare for a bad crop season or a rainy day.

One isn't necessarily better than the other, they are just different. But one thing that has lead to is an abundance of capital and wealth in societies that developed from harsher climates. That has lead to the ability to create these safety nets.

I think people should be able to move north or south, but they need to be responsible. I don't blame them for what is going on either. But I do blame the neocons and the deep state. And Trump is their enemy.

I'm pretty sure you just described Trump to a tee. It's utterly shocking, shocking I tell you, that Netanyahu's errand boy likes walls and fences...

Not to a 't', there are some huge differences.. One is that Trump is legitimately an America First candidate. But it was a smart move for him to chameleon the neocon playbook. Like I said, the neocons have a good game going. Trump just hitched a ride.

I'm gonna need a source for that bolded claim since clearly you're ignoring Ron's debate answer enthusiastically opposing border walls.

Ron Paul has always been pro-border security. We all know he opposes the wall. I'm not big fan, but the globalists have us in a position where I think even Ron Paul has to give it a thought once in a while.

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 10:33 PM

Be scared!!!! If da turrists don't get ya, it'll be rapey immigrants. Same style of propaganda that got hemp and mj banned for the last 90 years or whatever. Fear to enforce agendas...used from the days of Babylon and Ancient Egypt and still in use today. Same as it ever was.
You would have said that when Paul Revere rode by shouting "The British are coming!"

Pop quiz. Who makes up the largest segment of the "Free stuff army"? Who collects the most welfare benefits in the country?

63% of Non-Citizen Households Access Welfare Programs Compared to 35% of native households (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?528923-63-of-Non-Citizen-Households-Access-Welfare-Programs-Compared-to-35-of-native-households)

It's ok just make up whatever you want. Republicans courting immigrant voters? Every time I think you can't make any more ridiculous claims you find a way to outdo yourself. No one believes that.
Reagan was a Demoncrat when he gave them amnesty?
W. was a Demoncrat when he tried to give them amnesty?
There are many "pro-immigration" RINOs that bend over backwards offering them free stuff.

So battered wife syndrome it is then.
Just practicality, you seem to suffer from the delusion that the enemy of the lesser of two evils is your friend.

I have history. You have Yahoo articles.
History is on my side, it says that a hated former majority overwhelmed by a hostile foreign invasion doesn't fare well.
History says that the countries that most immigrants are coming from have no history of believing in liberty but rather tend to swing from leftist totalitarianism to "right wing" totalitarianism.
History says that the states that have been most "enriched" by "diversity" have turned into deep blue hell holes.

Anti Federalist

12-21-2018, 10:48 PM

That is probably correct and I stated already that I don't expect to see any walls built. However, the fact that you're so quick to wall us all in over your own fears scares the crap out of me.

Well founded fear and a rational response to it is logical.

I have large amounts of fuel oil in my basement. Fear of them catching fire is a well founded fear. Automatic fixed fire fighting devices are a rational response.

Polling? My assertion was that Democrats court immigrant voters. Republicans do not and actually do the exact opposite. The Republicans complain that immigrants don't vote for Republicans and instead vote for bigger government. A chicken or egg question perhaps but you can't reasonably expect anyone to vote for a party that clearly doesn't want them and doesn't spend any time trying to win them over. Are they voting for bigger government or are they voting for whoever acts like they actually want their votes??

In the polling data I have seen, most of them asked generic, non partisan questions.

In many ways we RP supporters should be to relate to that. Remember when the GOP kicked us out of conventions? Broke limbs of delegates? Silenced our RNC delegates? Blacked out coverage on Fox News? It's a minor miracle (or really bad battered wife syndrome) that any RP folks still insist on sticking with the GOP.

I don't stick with GOP. I am no longer a "registered Republican, and have not been since 2012, the last time I could vote for Ron in a primary.

That would imply that you are also forming opinions based solely on what you see in the media and out of the mouths of politicians and internet mouthpieces. Sure, that's your right I guess.

I form my opinions on what I see in life.

I travel extensively and interact with people all over.

Anti Federalist

12-21-2018, 10:55 PM

Pop quiz. Who makes up the largest segment of the "Free stuff army"? Who collects the most welfare benefits in the country?

Native AmeriKunts.

So?

They are the majority population.

As a percentage, migrants consume vastly larger proportions of the welfare state grab bag of goodies.

So, I'll ask the question I've asked a million times already and never have gotten a satisfactory answer to:

Please explain to me, convince me, how, if the goal is to reduce dependency on government, importing millions of migrants who, as a proportion favor and use greater amounts of government, will help accomplish that goal?

devil21

12-21-2018, 10:59 PM

You would have said that when Paul Revere rode by shouting "The British are coming!"

Haha, speaking of history. Did you know the story of Paul Revere is almost entirely made up? He was drunk as a skunk and fell off his horse after the first town. Someone else actually completed the famed "ride of Paul Revere".

63% of Non-Citizen Households Access Welfare Programs Compared to 35% of native households (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?528923-63-of-Non-Citizen-Households-Access-Welfare-Programs-Compared-to-35-of-native-households)

Not what I asked. I'll ask again. Who takes the largest, by far, segment of social benefits? I'm sure it's easy to find the stats.

Reagan was a Demoncrat when he gave them amnesty?
W. was a Demoncrat when he tried to give them amnesty?
There are many "pro-immigration" RINOs that bend over backwards offering them free stuff.

Giving amnesty is definitely not a partisan issue. You are 100% correct about that. It does not, however, equate to campaigning for their votes and definitely not in the present.

Just practicality, you seem to suffer from the delusion that the enemy of the lesser of two evils is your friend.

I know he can change! He promised me next time would be different! I can't leave him because he tells no one else wants me and anyone that would will never be as good to me as he is :cry:

History is on my side, it says that a hated former majority overwhelmed by a hostile foreign invasion doesn't fare well.
History says that the countries that most immigrants are coming from have no history of believing in liberty but rather tend to swing from leftist totalitarianism to "right wing" totalitarianism.

Back again to equating government actions with desires of the people that live under those governments. No one is born knowing freedom. People only know what they are exposed to. It can be changed but you're sure not helping.
Regardless, my message and advice remains "Start Fuckin'" because no walls are going to fix the issue now.

History says that the states that have been most "enriched" by "diversity" have turned into deep blue hell holes.

So why are you angry at the guy next door (figuratively, since I know you don't live anywhere near immigrants) instead of the people that are forcing the diversity upon you? We've had this debate before yet you're determined to continue blaming the other guy that's just trying to survive. Hateful little world to live in, that is. Constantly misdirecting your anger while the controllers laugh at the flailing.

Anti Federalist

12-21-2018, 11:06 PM

Be scared!!!! If da turrists don't get ya, it'll be rapey immigrants.

Fucking right I'm scared.

I'm scared for my kids and their kids, and what kind of nation they will be left with.

Scared that they will become hated strangers in the land their family built, that they will be shot in their beds while they sleep, or be deposed of their property by government force without compensation, like what is happening in South Africa right now, or that they will be reduced to a second class citizenship status, dis-possessed in the land they once called their own, like American Indians.

Scared now that I've realized that the Bolshevik Marxists no longer view class struggle as the premier banner under which to fly their ideology. Race and identity is new Marxist rallying cry, and that they fully intend to apply that in the 21st century and repeat the 100 million plus deaths of 20th century, with me and my family as primary target Number One.

I wanted to leave a nation of maximum freedom and liberty to them.

Now I'll be happy to leave them a nation that they can survive in.

Anti Globalist

12-21-2018, 11:07 PM

Thats a pretty impressive feat.

devil21

12-21-2018, 11:10 PM

That liberal MSM talking point seems familiar.

Oh, Yes, here it is:

That article has very little in common with my post. However, if he really did post things like "Kaepernick Just Released His Own 'Bill of Rights' And Is Forcing Everyone In America To Follow It" then he runs a fake news website that takes advantage of gullible people for click revenue and that only confirms further to me that he's not trustworthy.

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 11:19 PM

Haha, speaking of history. Did you know the story of Paul Revere is almost entirely made up? He was drunk as a skunk and fell off his horse after the first town. Someone else actually completed the famed "ride of Paul Revere".
There were multiple riders who went in multiple directions but even if your revisionist attack on poor PR is true it is a distraction.
You try to claim that any fear of any threat no matter how real is "paranoia", that is a very old and not very good propaganda tachnique favored by the government when it wants to do things like take away guns or spy on everyone.

Not what I asked. I'll ask again. Who takes the largest, by far, segment of social benefits? I'm sure it's easy to find the stats.
I know, you tried to ask an irrelevant question and I answered with a relevant fact.
If we allow an unlimited number of immigrants in we will have twice the problem that we have now.

Giving amnesty is definitely not a partisan issue. You are 100% correct about that. It does not, however, equate to campaigning for their votes and definitely not in the present.
There is no shortage of Swampublicans that have tried to buy the immigrants, it doesn't work because the Demoncrats always offer them more.

I know he can change! He promised me next time would be different! I can't leave him because he tells no one else wants me and anyone that would will never be as good to me as he is :cry:

There are millions of better political parties that actually get candidates elected out there?
We are making progress reforming the Republican party and we won't last long enough to even launch a revolution let alone reform the country politically if we let the Demoncrats take over and increase the flood of invaders.

Back again to equating government actions with desires of the people that live under those governments.
They prove that their desires align with their governments when they come here and vote for the same policies or worse.

No one is born knowing freedom. People only know what they are exposed to.
That's the point, they have even less exposure to it than Americans do.

It can be changed but you're sure not helping.
We can't afford to let them all in in a vain attept to expose them to freedom before they turn us into a communist hell hole, a small handful at a time is the best we can do, if you want to expose more of them then go to their country and preach the word.

Regardless, my message and advice remains "Start $#@!in'" because no walls are going to fix the issue now.
We must stop the invasion as well and deport as many as possible to even have a chance, we also can't turn around our birth rates while the big government that the invaders will vote to make bigger impoverishes our people.

So why are you angry at the guy next door (figuratively, since I know you don't live anywhere near immigrants) instead of the people that are forcing the diversity upon you?
You have no idea where I live or have lived and I blame the people who are tipping the scales in favor of communism because they are to blame for making things worse.

We've had this debate before yet you're determined to continue blaming the other guy that's just trying to survive. Hateful little world to live in, that is. Constantly misdirecting your anger while the controllers laugh at the flailing.
The other guy isn't just trying to survive, he votes to send armed government workers to take what I have so he can "survive" at my expense.

You are the one assisting the controllers who are trying to use the immigrants to enslave Americans beyond what they would have voted for themselves.

If you aren't a lying scoundrel you are a fool.

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 11:25 PM

$#@!ing right I'm scared.

I'm scared for my kids and their kids, and what kind of nation they will be left with.

Scared that they will become hated strangers in the land their family built, that they will be shot in their beds while they sleep, or be deposed of their property by government force without compensation, like what is happening in South Africa right now, or that they will be reduced to a second class citizenship status, dis-possessed in the land they once called their own, like American Indians.

Scared now that I've realized that the Bolshevik Marxists no longer view class struggle as the premier banner under which to fly their ideology. Race and identity is new Marxist rallying cry, and that they fully intend to apply that in the 21st century and repeat the 100 million plus deaths of 20th century, with me and my family as primary target Number One.

I wanted to leave a nation of maximum freedom and liberty to them.

Now I'll be happy to leave them a nation that they can survive in.
Don't you know that all those foreigners from socialist countries who vote socialist when they get here are just misunderstood libertarians?
How dare you take facts into consideration?
If we just sent planes and buses and ships to bring them all here to double our population we would have an anarchist's paradise overnight.

:rolleyes:

devil21

12-21-2018, 11:38 PM

There were multiple riders who went in multiple directions but even if your revisionist attack on poor PR is true it is a distraction.
You try to claim that any fear of any threat no matter how real is "paranoia", that is a very old and not very good propaganda tachnique favored by the government when it wants to do things like take away guns or spy on everyone.

What I'm saying is that no one is responsible for you and your kid's future except you. Forcing your will upon me over your fears is most definitely not libertarian and Ron was right that walls is not what this country is about. Want to not be a minority group in the future? I have offered the solution multiple times in these walls threads. It is the only solution and is based purely on natural law. Don't make me type it again please.

I'm not bothering with the rest since we've been over all that multiple times already. You just continue to post falsehoods no matter what so why bother.

TheCount

12-21-2018, 11:41 PM

The total, just FYI, at 2230 EST 21 Dec, is at $13.8 million.

At this rate, the gofundme will have enough money to build the wall after 10 more years of donations.

TheCount

12-21-2018, 11:47 PM

This is not backed up by credible polling data at all. That data shows over and over, by very large majorities, migrant populations vote for and support larger and more intrusive government.

As opposed to the native population, who voted for... Larger and more intrusive government.

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 11:48 PM

What I'm saying is that no one is responsible for you and your kid's future except you. Forcing your will upon me over your fears is most definitely not libertarian and Ron was right that walls is not what this country is about. Want to not be a minority group in the future? I have offered the solution multiple times in these walls threads. It is the only solution and is based purely on natural law. Don't make me type it again please.
I'm sorry but we (and I no longer believe you to be one of us in any sense, you write with a hint of gloating that indicates you are an enemy that believes he is sure to succeed at destroying America) have a right to our own territory where we have as much freedom as possible and that we decide who to let in in order to keep it that way, because your invader buddies WILL impose ever bigger government and probably genocide on me I have a natural law right to keep them away from me, animals all over the world form packs, claim territory and defend it against outsiders and men have just as much right to do so.

I'm not bothering with the rest since we've been over all that multiple times already. You just continue to post falsehoods no matter what so why bother.
That describe you better than me, I'm done with you too.

Swordsmyth

12-21-2018, 11:50 PM

As opposed to the native population, who voted for... Larger and more intrusive government.
Not nearly as much as the invaders, we know you would love to make our uphill struggle twice as hard.

CCTelander

12-22-2018, 12:17 AM

Posted without comment for the benefit and edification of all.

What Fear Does to Your Brain - And How to Stop It

From our televisions to our political conversations, we are inundated with messages of fear. We feel more afraid of the world and our own neighbors now than we have in decades. But all that fear isn’t good for us. In fact, according to neuroscience, fear is killing us.

First of all, fear is “a chain reaction in the brain,” according to How Stuff Works. Fear begins with a frightening stimulus and ends with your body preparing to protect itself from danger. It works like this: something frightens you, like seeing a cockroach, hearing a door slam in an empty apartment, or feeling a knife pressed into your throat. You feel dread, anxiety, and panic. Your heart races, your breathing quickens, and your muscles tense up. Your body goes into fight-or-flight mode, ready to do everything it needs to make you safe.

That entire reaction involves five different parts of your brain:

It begins in the thalamus, which receives signals from your body’s senses. From there, there are two different paths the fear reaction can take: the low road or the high road. The low road is the quickest, basest, least-rational response to life-threatening situations. If one of those signals is life-threatening, like feeling a knife at your throat, the thalamus alerts your amygdala. Your amygdala triggers emotional responses and prompts your hypothalamus to turn up your adrenal glands and rush blood to your muscles to get you away from the danger.

If the signal isn’t life-threatening, the brain takes the more rational high road response. If you see something that’s not life-threatening but still frightening, like a cockroach skittering across the floor, the amygdala alerts the pre-frontal or sensory cortex. The cortex alerts the hippocampus and spurs it to compare the current threat to past ones. The hippocampus is the brain’s memory center. If it determines that the current fear stimulus is a threat but not life-threatening, the hippocampus heightens your senses to an almost superhuman degree and triggers your fight-or-flight response. Both processes are automatic and happen within “fractions of a second” according to Edutopia.

As helpful as that response is, the speed and thoroughness of it can be detrimental. According to research out of the University of Minnesota, “once the fear pathways are ramped up, the brain short-circuits more rational processing paths and reacts immediately to signals from the amygdala. When in this overactive state, the brain perceives events as negative and remembers them that way.”

That’s unfortunate, because the brain stores all the details from that particular stimulus -- time of day, images, sounds, smells, weather, etc -- in your long-term memory. While that makes the memory “very durable, [it] may also be fragmented,” triggering the full gamut of physical and emotional responses every single time a similar fear stimulus shows up. That’s what’s known as fear conditioning, as the researchers explain:

Later, the sights, sounds, and other contextual details of the event can become stimuli themselves and trigger fear. They may bring back the memory of the fearful event, or they may cause us to feel afraid without consciously knowing why. Because these cues were associated with previous danger, the brain may see them as a predictor of threat.

That situation is particularly detrimental to people suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). Dr. Bessel van der Kolk explains how here:

While fear can play tricks with your memory and your perception of reality, it also affects your body. Fear can weaken the creation of long-term memories and damage the hippocampus, short-circuiting the response paths and causing constant feelings of anxiety. Fear can also have long-term consequences on our health, including “fatigue, chronic depression, accelerated ageing and even premature death,” again according to the University of Minnesota. And that’s only the start of their bad news:

To someone in chronic fear, the world looks scary and their memories confirm that. Moreover, fear can interrupt processes in our brains that allow us to regulate emotions, read non-verbal cues and other information presented to us, reflect before acting, and act ethically. This impacts our thinking and decision-making in negative ways, leaving us susceptible to intense emotions and impulsive reactions.

So being inundated with messages of fear and constantly processing them prompts tons of negative consequences for your body and psyche. But you don’t have to accept them. You can beat fear; you just need to train yourself.

The process of overcoming a fear memory is known as fear extinction. Fear extinction involves creating a new response to the fear-causing stimulus, meaning making positive associations with the thing that freaked you out. For example, if your fear response was triggered by seeing a cockroach skittering across the floor that response might trigger every time you see that chunk of the floor. That’s not terribly helpful, but if you looked at that same chunk of floor every single day without seeing cockroaches on it, the fear response would be rewritten. This works because “the amygdala wants to associate the memory with the freezing response, but it can be trained to associate it with something less debilitating,” explains Discover Magazine. Once the amygdala does that, the fear memory is rewritten.

Once that happens, you’re free of fear. Moral of the story: control your response to fear, don’t let fear control you.

https://bigthink.com/laurie-vazquez/what-fear-does-to-your-brain-and-how-to-stop-it

Swordsmyth

12-22-2018, 12:28 AM

Posted without comment for the benefit and edification of all.

https://bigthink.com/laurie-vazquez/what-fear-does-to-your-brain-and-how-to-stop-it
Posted without comment for the benefit and edification of all.

Like many animals that evolved in isolation from significant predators, the dodo was entirely fearless (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_tameness) of humans. This fearlessness and its inability to fly made the dodo easy prey for sailors.[91] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodo#cite_note-FOOTNOTEBBC2002-11-20-91)

More at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodo

CCTelander

12-22-2018, 12:47 AM

Posted without comment for the benefit and edification of all.

More at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodo

Interesting. Irrelevent however since it is not apropos of the actual point.

Swordsmyth

12-22-2018, 12:48 AM

Interesting. Irrelevent however since it is not apropos of the actual point.
It was just as relevant as your post.

Anti Federalist

12-22-2018, 01:02 AM

As opposed to the native population, who voted for... Larger and more intrusive government.

For Fuck's Sake...I don't mind honest discussion but this constant rebuttal of misleading narratives is getting tiresome.

Yes, natives voted for larger and more and intrusive government.

Yes, natives use a great deal of government handouts.

Migrants do these things at levels roughly twice that of natives.

So, maybe you can tell me how importing millions more of people that use more government and want more government at levels roughly twice that of natives is going to help us shrink government and reduce its influence and control over all our lives?

Anti Federalist

12-22-2018, 01:09 AM

The process of overcoming a fear memory is known as fear extinction. Fear extinction involves creating a new response to the fear-causing stimulus, meaning making positive associations with the thing that freaked you out. For example, if your fear response was triggered by seeing a cockroach skittering across the floor that response might trigger every time you see that chunk of the floor. That’s not terribly helpful, but if you looked at that same chunk of floor every single day without seeing cockroaches on it, the fear response would be rewritten. This works because “the amygdala wants to associate the memory with the freezing response, but it can be trained to associate it with something less debilitating,” explains Discover Magazine. Once the amygdala does that, the fear memory is rewritten.

OK, fair enough.

But what do I do about the cockroach?

Ignore it until I'm covered in them?

Can not anybody see there is a middle ground between Upson Pratt in the movie Creepshow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creepshow) and ignoring every threat until it overwhelms you?

Is it "cowering in fear" to put aside supplies, water, fuel, batteries and plywood window covers in an area prone to hurricanes, or is that "paranoid"...the better option to be run around like a lunatic two days before a storm hits trying to round this shit up?

CCTelander

12-22-2018, 01:12 AM

It was just as relevant as your post.

Not at all. My post warned of the fact that fear literally shuts down critical areas of the human brain which are absolutely necessary for making rational, well-reasoned decisions. This being the case, making any serious policy decision from a state of fear is extremely ill advised.

The information you posted, while interesting, had to do with ignoring or suppressing the fight or flight instinct in response to immediate, life-threatening physical dangers. The two aren't even remotely analogous and nobody has even hinted that such a course of action should be undertaken.

If you are about to be attacked by a man-eating tiger, someone points a gun at you or you see a carr barrelling down on you, by all means react immediately and without significant reflection to your fear response and save your life if you can. If, on the other hand, you have important policy decisions to make, and you aren't threatened with death within the next few seconds if you don't make them immediately, you absolutely owe it to your fellows ton refrain from reacting out of a state of fear, and its accompanying mental impairment.

A reasonable person would concede the point without question.

Swordsmyth

12-22-2018, 01:13 AM

OK, fair enough.

But what do I do about the cockroach?

Ignore it until I'm covered in them?

Can not anybody see there is a middle ground between Upson Pratt in the movie Creepshow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creepshow) and ignoring every threat until it overwhelms you?

Is it "cowering in fear" to put aside supplies, water, fuel, batteries and plywood window covers in an area prone to hurricanes, or is that "paranoid"...the better option to be run around like a lunatic two days before a storm hits trying to round this $#@! up?
Just be a good little dodo bird and smile as your throat is slit.

Swordsmyth

12-22-2018, 01:16 AM

Not at all. My post warned of the fact that fear literally shuts down critical areas of the human brain which are absolutely necessary for making rational, well-reasoned decisions. This being the case, making any serious policy decision from a state of fear is extremely ill advised.

The information you posted, while interesting, had to do with ignoring or suppressing the fight or flight instinct in response to immediate, life-threatening physical dangers. The two aren't even remotely analogous and nobody has even hinted that such a course of action should be undertaken.

If you are about to be attacked by a man-eating tiger, someone points a gun at you or you see a carr barrelling down on you, by all means react immediately and without significant reflection to your fear response and save your life if you can. If, on the other hand, you have important policy decisions to make, and you aren't threatened with death within the next few seconds if you don't make them immediately, you absolutely owe it to your fellows ton refrain from reacting out of a state of fear, and its accompanying mental impairment.

A reasonable person would concede the point without question.
Your post assumed that anyone with any foresight suffers from "chronic fear", that isn't true.
This new post of yours again denies the value of any foresight beyond the next 2 minutes.

By your logic we should all turn in our guns, tear down our fences and remove the locks from our homes and cars unless we live next to violent criminals.

Please don't continue to insult my intelligence.

Swordsmyth

12-22-2018, 01:21 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j5Be5a86uA

I'd rather be Monk than a dodo bird but there are possibilities inbetween.

Ender

12-22-2018, 03:02 AM

ThePaleoLibertarian

12-22-2018, 04:40 AM

Schifference

12-22-2018, 05:40 AM

I don't know what the answer to this issue is. However, when all or most people in power are for or against something that something is usually not good for the people.

It appears Rand Paul and Thomas Massie support border security. Are not those 2 people the most liberty friendly elected people?
Wall, fence, barbed wire with armed guards. What difference does it make? Ron Paul said many times bring our troops home and secure our borders! What did Ron mean by secure our borders? Rand Paul was specific and even introduced legislation.
"SECURE THE BORDERS. NO MORE GAMES.

I’ve also introduced legislation that would make immigration reform conditional on Congress voting on whether the border is secure, requiring completion of a border fence in five years and stopping the federal government from establishing a national identification card system for citizens."

Schifference

12-22-2018, 06:04 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwZsBiZYocg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK8UOs8mXs8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eduzet9GypQ
What was Ron's solution? Let people come here and then starve or not be able to go to school or get medical care? Does that sound logical?

Congressman Massie chastised House Republicans for easily securing $100 billion in disaster assistance for the various hurricanes during the last two years but remain unable to find any way to find President Donald Trump’s $5 billion in border wall funding.

Massie contended that Republicans from California, Texas, and Florida, which comprise the largest Republican delegations to the House of Representatives, share the most substantial blame for the House GOP’s inability to pass a bill that includes border wall funding.

Schifference

12-22-2018, 06:08 AM

In the first 38 seconds Rand Paul states he is for the wall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YN5-SSTE9nM

Schifference

12-22-2018, 10:22 AM

Accepting an immigrant is accepting the responsibility for adopting and then supporting them and all their offspring for eternity.

Anti Federalist

12-22-2018, 11:03 AM

AuH20

12-22-2018, 11:06 AM

Accepting an immigrant is accepting the responsibility for adopting and then supporting them and all their offspring for eternity.

Correct. Politics has foisted this mess onto our lap and we best take care of it. Be proactive and keep them all out. That includes the socialist whites as well. We should honestly have a 10 year moratorium on all immigration, until the system is refined and fixed.

AuH20

12-22-2018, 11:08 AM

Without significant immigration enforcement and deportations, there is never going to be another conservative president, let alone a libertarian one. Forget having a president like Ron Paul, we'll never have another Ronald Reagan, or anyone remotely close to him. California used to not be an electoral lock for the Democrats, but now it is. Immigration and low white birthrates are the culprits.

Our only hope is ruin after Trump. Ruin will send these cockroaches back to whence they came. So in the upcoming presidential elections, vote for the candidate that's going to bring the Ruin at a faster pace. The USSA needs to die, so we can live.

TheCount

12-22-2018, 11:09 AM

Correct. Politics has foisted this mess onto our lap and we best take care of it. Be proactive and keep them all out. That includes the socialist whites as well. We should honestly have a 10 year moratorium on all immigration, until the system is refined and fixed.

Halting immigration for 100 years still wouldn't put an end to demographic change or create the glorious white nation of your dreams.

PAF

12-22-2018, 11:10 AM

I posted this in another thread but it belongs here as well:

“Private Property” is different than public land. I advocate fences around private property, but not public land.

Growing government, and assisting to grow government, to build East/West Berlin Walls, promoting Eminent Domain which affects Private Property rights, restricting contract rights between employer/employee, are all anti freedom/liberty solutions. Which is what this manufactured crisis is attempting to do.

The better course of action would be to save your money, promote economic freedom zones to create/expand businesses to employ more people, and allow the Free Market to work things out.

Americans in Section 8 will not take those border jobs. This combined with “forced unionization” that is the USMCA (NAFTA 2.0) will ultimately drive costs up, affecting and further whittling the middle-class, as well as drive lower income people further into the ground.

I am still amazed that people/government always feel that “we must do something”, when every time it only makes thing worse.

Looking for government to solve government induced problems ALWAYS reduces freedom, liberty and fiscal responsibility.

Haste makes waste, I am saddened that things are not thought through.

Anti Federalist

12-22-2018, 11:11 AM

AuH20

12-22-2018, 11:12 AM

Halting immigration for 100 years still wouldn't put an end to demographic change or create the glorious white nation of your dreams.

There can be no 'glorious white nation.' Humans are the constant problem in the equation. But there are cultures which lend themselves to more beneficial living agreements than others.

Anti Federalist

12-22-2018, 11:16 AM

I posted this in another thread but it belongs here as well:

“Private Property” is different than public land. I advocate fences around private property, but not public land.

I'm all for it.

Use the GoFundMe money to pay rent to private landowners to erect the border wall on their property.

At the same time, have the CinC call up the "Unorganized Militia" to man it, under Article 10 Sec 246 of the United States Code (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/246).

PAF

12-22-2018, 11:18 AM

Honestly...I miss the days when this "movement" was in favor of securing the border and securing liberty.

Removing troops from foreign lands, ending foreign wars and bringing them home to, you know, actually defend the nation, was one the primary reasons Ron Paul made sense to me.

I miss the days when it was fully understood that liberty comes from within, not government “securing” it “for us”.

Walls will not change the hearts and minds of people. It will create barriers in ones mind.

Read my above post to understand Free Market principles.

Anti Federalist

12-22-2018, 11:18 AM

Halting immigration for 100 years still wouldn't put an end to demographic change or create the glorious white nation of your dreams.

Why not?

It took only 50 years to turn the country upside down from what it was when the Immigration Reform Act was passed.

AuH20

12-22-2018, 11:21 AM

Anti Federalist

12-22-2018, 11:25 AM

I miss the days when it was fully understood that liberty comes from within, not government “securing” it “for us”.

Walls will not change the hearts and minds of people. It will create barriers in ones mind.

Read my above post to understand Free Market principles.

That's in our founding documents.

It's the only prime directive legitimate government has.

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it.

You mocked my screen name a few posts back, along with some other folks who seem to think I am not being "Anti Federalist" enough.

Ya'll need to read up on who and what the AntiFeds believed.

They were the ones standing up against a counterrevolutionary coup of Federalists who found that language too radical.

I find nothing at all wrong with it.

This government is illegitimate, it does NOT secure the rights of free citizens, it does just the opposite.

And one of the ways it does that is by allowing millions and millions of invading migrants to walk right in who have no concept of that ideal, who look to government as mother, father, provider and Savior.

Anti Federalist

12-22-2018, 11:28 AM

You're too romantic for this world. No one cares about liberty and if they did, we wouldn't have as many problems as we're saddled with.

They want your stuff. Boobus wants your stuff and so does the desperate, illiterate hordes.

And there you have it...really not any more difficult than that.

Anti Federalist

12-22-2018, 11:32 AM

Without significant immigration enforcement and deportations, there is never going to be another conservative president, let alone a libertarian one. Forget having a president like Ron Paul, we'll never have another Ronald Reagan, or anyone remotely close to him. California used to not be an electoral lock for the Democrats, but now it is. Immigration and low white birthrates are the culprits.

And that's the future for Texas, Arizona, Nevada, Colorado and New Mexico.

Progressive socialist super majority One Party Rule states.

I have no idea why this is so hard for some folks to see, unless they are so wedded to their ideology they cannot take a critical look and re-assess.

I know I did.

Anti Federalist

12-22-2018, 11:51 AM

I don't know what the answer to this issue is. However, when all or most people in power are for or against something that something is usually not good for the people.

That's crucial to understanding this as well.

Always keep in mind that the entire ruling class, left, right, center is in favor of unlimited and unstoppable migrant invasion.

The leftist ruling class likes it because it is a voting base that will promote their interests, policies and candidates for the next 100 years or more.

The rightist ruling class likes it because their corporate masters (honestly this applies to the left as well, as most major transnationals are leftist) get cheap labor.

The centrist ruling class likes it because it assuages their guilt, like a shot of morphine given to a terminal cancer patient. Oh and they get cheap lawncare and nannies and housekeeping as well.

Brian4Liberty

12-22-2018, 11:59 AM

Posted without comment for the benefit and edification of all.

https://bigthink.com/laurie-vazquez/what-fear-does-to-your-brain-and-how-to-stop-it

That would explain Trump Derangement Syndrome.

It is true that fear is used by both the left and the right. But the frequency and type of fear is substantially different.

The left media (MSNBC, CNN, etc.) wallow in a kind of hysterical fear almost constantly. They are always “shaking” and “shook”. For example with Mattis leaving, whole panels of people were talking about how scared they are. The “wheels are off”, the end is near, it’s unprecedented chaos! They were one step away from curling up in balls and sucking on their thumbs. They needed safe spaces, coloring books, blankies and pinkies. The left is all about sowing fear and division, it is constant. It went into overdrive about 2 years before Obama was elected, and it has been full steam ever since.

On the other hand, the fear on shows like Lou Dobbs and from Trump is of the “murderers and rapists” variety. That is certainly overblown, and does not apply to every individual. But there is a seed of truth with the increase in violent gangs from south of the border. But what are the numbers? If there are 40 million illegal immigrants, how many are gang bangers? How many are mentally ill street dwellers that pick up pistols and shoot people? It has to be a small percentage.

TheCount

12-22-2018, 12:01 PM

There can be no 'glorious white nation.' Humans are the constant problem in the equation. But there are cultures which lend themselves to more beneficial living agreements than others.
Okay, it still won't create your non-glorious white supremacist nation.

Brian4Liberty

12-22-2018, 12:02 PM

Okay, it still won't create your non-glorious white supremacist nation.

Right on cue, left wing fear mongering meant to sow division.

TheCount

12-22-2018, 12:04 PM

Why not?

White nationalists' definitions of whiteness exclude the majority of Americans being born today.

TheCount

12-22-2018, 12:06 PM

Right on cue, left wing fear mongering meant to sow division.
What fear mongering? He's a white supremacist whose political goal is white rule of a white nation. These are all facts.

Which part is the fear mongering? Not the "the browns are going to get us," obviously, but my pointing out that demographic trends indicate an end to white majority is fear mongering?

Aren't I saying the same thing as the terrified anti-immigrant crowd? Is there anyone in this thread who disagrees that this trend exists?

Anti Federalist

12-22-2018, 12:09 PM

White nationalists' definitions of whiteness exclude the majority of Americans being born today.

Right, because of the changes made by the Immigration Reform Act.

As a leftarian, maybe you can answer this question for me, and I'm being quite serious:

Why are only white communities, states or nations ever in need of "diversity".

When whites move into what was a predominately colored people's community it's called "gentrification" and you get feces flung at you.

Brian4Liberty

12-22-2018, 12:17 PM

The border wall and real ID are futile. They are “solutions” that don’t address the underlying issue or cause.

Government does not enforce existing laws, regulations, restrictions, etc. For example, welfare, food stamps and other free stuff. On paper, illegal immigrants aren’t supposed to receive most of that. But in reality, it’s a wink and a nod, and requirements are ignored. “Work arounds” are freely given away by government employees who are supposed to be checking and enforcing. Fake social security numbers are never questioned by anyone.

What good is a wall when catch and release is the practice? When there is no enforcement of people who overstay or do not have visas, a wall won’t do any good. This is why there is supposedly a need for a wall. If the border patrol could turn around illegal immigrants, the wall wouldn’t be necessary (outside of busy urban areas).

TheCount

12-22-2018, 12:18 PM

As a leftarian

If you want a leftist answer, you will have to ask a leftist.

Brian4Liberty

12-22-2018, 12:21 PM

What fear mongering? He's a white supremacist whose political goal is white rule of a white nation. These are all facts.

Which part is the fear mongering? Not the "the browns are going to get us," obviously, but my pointing out that demographic trends indicate an end to white majority is fear mongering?

Aren't I saying the same thing as the terrified anti-immigrant crowd? Is there anyone in this thread who disagrees that this trend exists?

There’s a “white supremist” under every bed, just waiting to get you! Yeah, we hear that from the left every day. And there’s a Mexican immigrant just waiting to rape you too. Once a person accepts the fear from both sides, they can just curl up in a ball instead of screeching hysterically all the time.

Brian4Liberty

12-22-2018, 12:37 PM

Turned on MSNBC. In no time, you better fear these things:

- Govt shutdown, it’s a disaster! The TSA isn’t getting paid!!!
- Putin/Russia have taken over the US!
- If we leave Syria, ISIS will get us all!

TheCount

12-22-2018, 12:49 PM

There’s a “white supremist” under every bed, just waiting to get you! Yeah, we hear that from the left every day. And there’s a Mexican immigrant just waiting to rape you too. Once a person accepts the fear from both sides, they can just curl up in a ball instead of screeching hysterically all the time.

I don't see how you can feign disbelief, given that you are the one who moved his white nationalist thread to Hot Topics and then posted in it.

Did you somehow do all of that without reading any of it?

Brian4Liberty

12-22-2018, 12:57 PM

I don't see how you can feign disbelief, given that you are the one who moved his white nationalist thread to Hot Topics and then posted in it.

Did you somehow do all of that without reading any of it?

Read an entire thread? Do people do that on these long threads?

And I honestly don’t know what thread you are talking about. Must not have been very memorable.

TheCount

12-22-2018, 01:29 PM

Read an entire thread? Do people do that on these long threads?

And I honestly don’t know what thread you are talking about. Must not have been very memorable.
Of course. Just like his endless string of temp bans, they're not memorable either.

A white nationalist nation works best, and that doesn't necessarily mean that we somehow punish or exclude minorities.
But we are the rightful heirs of the constitutional legacy (albeit poor to be completely honest).

The enemy wishes to destroy this constitutional legacy, so they must attack the dominant carriers of this spark. Ever notice that 95% of all libertarians are Caucasian?

We have a choice. We either grab the wheel or they do. It's an arms race. We need to sell and rapidly build consensus, before they do and wipe us out. It's a zero sum game.

Search his post history for "white"

AuH20

12-22-2018, 01:33 PM

Of course. Just like his endless string of temp bans, they're not memorable either.

Search his post history for "white"

You post that like it's somehow embarrassing. There is nothing embarrassing about that logical conclusion. I don't want Venezuela here and I'm inclined to stay with the devil I know. We're moving towards a future with no middle class and it's predicated on a non-white future. The darker 3rd world will overwhelm the native middle class and permanently cement the oligarchy in place. If the third world wasn't so culturally backward, I'd welcome them, but we know that's not the case.

Anti Federalist

12-22-2018, 01:36 PM

If you want a leftist answer, you will have to ask a leftist.

OK, well, drop that moniker then and just address the question if you feel like it.

TheCount

12-22-2018, 01:40 PM

You post that like it's somehow embarrassing. There is nothing embarrassing about that logical conclusion. I don't want Venezuela here and I'm inclined to stay with the devil I know. We're moving towards a future with no middle class and it's predicated on a non-white future. The darker 3rd world will overwhelm the native middle class and really cement the oligarchy in place.
I didn't post it to embarrass you. I stated your political affiliation and goal as a matter of fact. Brian obviously didn't believe me, which is the only reason that I posted that.

AuH20

12-22-2018, 01:41 PM

I didn't post it to embarrass you. I stated your political affiliation and goal as a matter of fact. Brian obviously didn't believe me, which is the only reason that I posted that.

I am not a white supremacist. I'm choosing a side in the face of total oblivion. If it's a choice between white and the Central American hordes, I'm picking white every time since it aligns with my interests, whether that concerns private property, 2nd amendment, etc.

TheCount

12-22-2018, 01:42 PM

OK, well, drop that moniker then and just address the question if you feel like it.

Edit: misread post.

The "only white" thing is a meme, so far as I can tell.

The complaint against gentrification is that rising costs drive current residents out. You'd have to ask a leftist, because I don't particularly have any problem with gentrification. I don't support that sort of government control over the lives and movements of it's people; I think that it's both ineffectual and counter-productuve.

TheCount

12-22-2018, 01:45 PM

I am not a white supremacist. I'm choosing a side in the face of total oblivion. If it's a choice between white and the Central American hordes, I'm picking white every time since it aligns with my interests, whether that concerns private property, 2nd amendment, etc.
Your stated reason for desiring a nation of and for whites is that whites have characteristics which are superior to those of non-whites.

You also stated that minorities would not necessarily be excluded from your white nation, but implied that they would have no political power.

What is this if not white supremacy?

AuH20

12-22-2018, 01:50 PM

Your stated reason for desiring a nation of and for whites is that whites have characteristics which are superior to those of non-whites.

You also stated that minorities would not necessarily be excluded from your white nation, but implied that they would have no political power.

What is this if not white supremacy?

White culture is typically superior to that of non-whites, if you're looking at the benefits to the individual. Look around.

Yes, I don't want them making decisions because they are easy marks, but I wouldn't prohibit them from doing so.

Have you seen this map?

https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/skelley-HOUSE-MAPS-1-2.png

Imagine this horror story coming to life? And we aren't far off.

TheCount

12-22-2018, 03:38 PM

White culture is typically superior to that of non-whites, if you're looking at the benefits to the individual. Look around.

Yes, I don't want them making decisions because they are easy marks, but I wouldn't prohibit them from doing so.

Have you seen this map?
What does any of that have to do with you being a white supremacist?

AuH20

12-22-2018, 04:11 PM

What does any of that have to do with you being a white supremacist?

It's a binary choice with the data provided. Secondly, I choose white culture supremacist just like the founders. But whatever. You'll see soon enough, when the children of the Equator fully transform this country into a Chinese style prison state.

Anti Globalist

12-22-2018, 09:39 PM

If this somehow works, I want all taxes abolished.

UWDude

12-22-2018, 10:24 PM

If this somehow works, I want all taxes abolished.

Death and taxes.

But what about a mandatory, straight 10% income tax... ...and the payer chooses what to support?

It would be like the free market of taxes.

Don't like your commute? Stipulate it all to the State Transportation Department.

Superfluous Man

12-23-2018, 12:58 PM

If this somehow works, I want all taxes abolished.

And all the more reason to abolish them if this doesn't work. In that case, it would only show that any money the government spends on this wall beyond what people voluntarily contribute would be buying something the people the government ostensibly represents don't really want badly enough to be willing to pay what it costs.

Ender

12-23-2018, 02:53 PM

White culture is typically superior to that of non-whites, if you're looking at the benefits to the individual. Look around.

Yes, I don't want them making decisions because they are easy marks, but I wouldn't prohibit them from doing so.

Actually The Ottoman Empire is considered probably the longest & best empire in history.

The Ottoman Empire was an Islamic empire that lasted from 1299 to November 1, July 24, 1923.
At the height of its power (16th–17th centuries), the empire spanned three continents, controlling much of Western Asia, Eastern and Southeastern Europe, the Caucasus, and North Africa. The Ottoman Empire contained 29 provinces and numerous vassal states, some of which were later absorbed into the empire, while others gained various types of autonomy during the course of centuries.

It existed at the globe for the longest period of time for 7 centuries.

The Ottoman legal system accepted the religious law over its subjects.
The Ottoman Empire was always organized around a system of local jurisprudence.
The Ottoman Empire was, in principle, tolerant towards Christians and Jews.

Numerous traditions and cultural traits of this previous empire (in fields such as architecture, cuisine, music, leisure and government) were adopted by the Ottomans, who elaborated them into new forms and blended them with the characteristics of the ethnic and religious groups living within the Ottoman territories, which resulted in a new and distinctively Ottoman cultural identity.

By developing commercial centres and routes, encouraging people to extend the area of cultivated land in the country and international trade through its dominions, the state performed basic economic functions in the Empire.

The empire was at the centre of interactions between the Eastern and Western worlds for seven centuries.

idiom

12-23-2018, 03:55 PM

The soviet Union was populated and run by white people.

British colonies had very different long run results from French, Spanish, and Belgian colonies.

DNA isn't fucking magic. Culture isn't in your blood.

Capitalism and liberalism can be adopted by anybody. Britain has always been multi-ethnic, but everybody adopted the millennia old civic virtues eventually.

The border wall might as well be about protestants vs catholics. Its the same ancient fight.

Zippyjuan

12-23-2018, 05:59 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gofundme-account-looks-to-buy-ladders-to-scale-trumps-border-wall

GoFundMe account looks to buy 'ladders' to scale Trump's border wall

The battle over border wall funding just went viral as one GoFundMe account is trying to raise money for President Trump’s controversial barrier, while another is looking for funds for ladders to scale the wall.

Last week, conservative activist Brian Kolfage set up a GoFundMe campaign to raise private funds to pay for Trump’s border wall. To date the campaign has raised a little over $16 million toward its goal of $1 billion – a far cry from the $21.7 billion that the Department of Homeland Security says is needed to build a wall along the entire southern border.

Still, that $16 million was enough to spur liberal activist Charlotte Clymer to start a GoFundMe campaign to buy ladders to climb the wall. The newly created campaign is a bit tongue-in-cheek and even the fund’s founders admit they probably won't reach their $100 million goal (the fund currently has only raised around $135,000), but whatever amount is eventually raised will be donated to the Texas-based Refugee and Immigrant Center for Education and Legal Services.

“We wanna make sure ladders are ready to send over to our undocumented friends and help them,” the GoFundMe page stated. “You see, they’ll never reach their goal, but no matter how much we raise, we’re going to reach ours.”

Speaking to Business Insider, Clymer said the campaign is meant to draw attention to the benefits of immigration to the U.S.

"I've really been happy with how this has generated conversation on just the absurdity of the wall in general," she told Business Insider. "Undocumented folks are not bringing crime or drug smuggling or any of this job-stealing nonsense to our country."

The fight over the border wall has led to the current government shutdown as lawmakers bicker over funding for Trump's signature campaign promise.

Swordsmyth

12-23-2018, 06:06 PM

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gofundme-account-looks-to-buy-ladders-to-scale-trumps-border-wall
:sleeping:

Ladders won't help much and the coyotes can already buy their own.

It is also illegal to aid and abet a criminal act so all of the contributors should be aware of that risk.

Zippyjuan

12-23-2018, 06:13 PM

http://www.borderwallasarchitecture.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/YumaSunLoanedPhoto.jpg

https://media2.fdncms.com/sacurrent/imager/u/original/2517966/maxresdefault.jpg

Swordsmyth

12-23-2018, 06:15 PM

http://www.borderwallasarchitecture.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/YumaSunLoanedPhoto.jpg

https://media2.fdncms.com/sacurrent/imager/u/original/2517966/maxresdefault.jpg
And it is still harder and slower than a wide open border.

oyarde

12-23-2018, 09:44 PM

Brian4Liberty

12-23-2018, 09:54 PM

And it is still harder and slower than a wide open border.

One reason the leftists fear a border wall is that it’s a physical barrier, not a law that they can ignore with a wink and a nod.

They do not oppose it for any noble or philosophical reasons.

Swordsmyth

12-23-2018, 10:11 PM

One reason the leftists fear a border wall is that it’s a physical barrier, not a law that they can ignore with a wink and a nod.

They do not oppose it for any noble or philosophical reasons.
The fact that it would be much harder for them to tear it down is almost enough to get me to change my mind and support it.

I will absolutely consider it a silver lining when Trump gets it built.

Brian4Liberty

12-23-2018, 10:14 PM

One reason the leftists fear a border wall is that it’s a physical barrier, not a law that they can ignore with a wink and a nod.

They do not oppose it for any noble or philosophical reasons.

Riddle me this. If the vast majority of illegal immigrants were straight WASPs, would there be support for a border wall from the left and the establishment?

<Hyperbole> Yes, there would be a wall from San Diego to the gulf in Texas. It would be 100 feet high, and manned by the US military with orders to shoot on sight any attempted crossing. Pelosi and Schumer would routinely tour the wall, and order their private security to shoot any attempts at crossing the border. </Hyperbole>

Swordsmyth

12-23-2018, 10:18 PM

Riddle me this. If the vast majority of illegal immigrants were straight WASPs, would there be support for a border wall from the left and the establishment?

<Hyperbole> Yes, there would be a wall from San Diego to the gulf in Texas. It would be 100 feet high, and manned by the US military with orders to shoot on sight any attempted crossing. Pelosi and Schumer would routinely tour the wall, and order their private security to shoot any attempts at crossing the border. </Hyperbole>
Fixed it.

devil21

12-23-2018, 10:29 PM

Quick math says now up to 427 days until $1B target. Almost 6 years to $5B gov't cost figure.

Donation pace is slowing down.

PAF

12-23-2018, 10:40 PM

The fact that it would be much harder for them to tear it down is almost enough to get me to change my mind and support it.

I will absolutely consider it a silver lining when Trump gets it built.

You change with the wind, you have no core principles. You stated that you do not support it, and now you do. Walter Block, RP, a few of us on this board, have not wavered, and shown that this wall is not a libertarian principle and that it in fact rejects the NAP.

Instead of promoting freedom, liberty, the NAP, hoping that the next gen will take notice and hopefully flourish, you and the statists do everything in opposition to destroy it.

You clearly have no idea whatsoever what the NAP is. It is because of you that this corrupt system will continue, now and in the future. Immigrants or not, Americans or not, people learn by example and what they are exposed to. Common Core is one such method, you are no different in what it teaches.

Swordsmyth

12-23-2018, 10:52 PM

You change with the wind, you have no core principles. You stated that you do not support it, and now you do.
I didn't say I supported it, I said it was ALMOST enough to get me to support it and that it was a silver lining (on a dark cloud).

Learn to read.

Walter Block, RP, a few of us on this board, have not wavered, and shown that this wall is not a libertarian principle and that it in fact rejects the NAP.

Instead of promoting freedom, liberty, the NAP, hoping that the next gen will take notice and hopefully flourish, you and the statists do everything in opposition to destroy it.

You clearly have no idea whatsoever what the NAP is. It is because of you that this corrupt system will continue, now and in the future. Immigrants or not, Americans or not, people learn by example and what they are exposed to. Common Core is one such method, you are no different in what it teaches.
Utter nonsense.

Champ

12-23-2018, 11:12 PM

Why are only white communities, states or nations ever in need of "diversity".

Still need an answer for this. I haven't seen or heard a major push in any of the major asian countries for diversity even though they are far more homogeneous than US/Canada/Europe and they make up a much larger portion of the total world population than all other racial groups.

Why is there little to no push to have these countries accept refugees, the same push we are seeing with US/Canada/Europe? Why is there nearly no public pressure for any of these major asian countries to accept refugees and instead all of the pressure falls on a select few. If diversity, and thereby the purported goal of spreading liberty and productivity for humanity in general, then starting with these enormous asian populations and diversifying them would seem to be the best place to lobby for and put pressure, however, this does not appear to be happening, neither on these forums, nor in the msm.

So again, why is the focus on Eurocentric countries and not others?

Swordsmyth

12-23-2018, 11:14 PM

Still need an answer for this. I haven't seen or heard a major push in any of the major asian countries for diversity even though they are far more homogeneous than US/Canada/Europe and they make up a much larger portion of the total world population than all other racial groups.

Why is there little to no push to have these countries accept refugees, the same push we are seeing with US/Canada/Europe? Why is there nearly no public pressure for any of these major asian countries to accept refugees and instead all of the pressure falls on a select few. If diversity, and thereby the purported goal of spreading liberty and productivity for humanity in general, then starting with these enormous asian populations and diversifying them would seem to be the best place to lobby for and put pressure, however, this does not appear to be happening, neither on these forums, nor in the msm.

So again, why is the focus on Eurocentric countries and not others?
Because European cultures are the primary obstacle to the globalists plans to enslave everyone, you can call it historical accident or explain it in any other manner that suits you but it is true.

Ender

12-24-2018, 12:00 AM

The soviet Union was populated and run by white people.

British colonies had very different long run results from French, Spanish, and Belgian colonies.

DNA isn't $#@!ing magic. Culture isn't in your blood.

Capitalism and liberalism can be adopted by anybody. Britain has always been multi-ethnic, but everybody adopted the millennia old civic virtues eventually.

The border wall might as well be about protestants vs catholics. Its the same ancient fight.

Exactly.

And the same hatred dribble was said about the dirty Irish, Germans, & Italians- not to mention the Chinese.

seapilot

12-24-2018, 12:14 AM

Still need an answer for this. I haven't seen or heard a major push in any of the major asian countries for diversity even though they are far more homogeneous than US/Canada/Europe and they make up a much larger portion of the total world population than all other racial groups.

Why is there little to no push to have these countries accept refugees, the same push we are seeing with US/Canada/Europe? Why is there nearly no public pressure for any of these major asian countries to accept refugees and instead all of the pressure falls on a select few. If diversity, and thereby the purported goal of spreading liberty and productivity for humanity in general, then starting with these enormous asian populations and diversifying them would seem to be the best place to lobby for and put pressure, however, this does not appear to be happening, neither on these forums, nor in the msm.

So again, why is the focus on Eurocentric countries and not others?

European Dominated Countries are more gullible?

The asylum seekers sparked an uproar in South Korea, mirroring immigration debates in the U.S. and Europe. One group opposed to letting them stay waved posters describing the Yemenis as “fake refugees” and urging them to “get out.” An online petition calling for their dismissal was signed by more than half a million people in the first 15 days of its posting.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-17/south-korea-rejects-refugee-status-for-yemenis-seeking-asylum

Swordsmyth

12-24-2018, 12:20 AM

European Dominated Countries are more gullible?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-17/south-korea-rejects-refugee-status-for-yemenis-seeking-asylum
You may be right but the Koreans haven't been subjected to the kind of long term propaganda that the European cultures have.
There is a reason for that.

Anti Federalist

12-24-2018, 01:28 AM

Because European cultures are the primary obstacle to the globalists plans to enslave everyone, you can call it historical accident or explain it in any other manner that suits you but it is true.

No more difficult than that.

While western ideas of capital, markets, banking, and property rights are what is driving the global economy, it is obvious that western ideas of individual liberty are not required for them to work.

And for the world of the future to come into being, those are what have got to go.

The Marxists/Communists/Maosists or whatever label you want to apply to them never went away when the USSR fell.

They re-grouped, learned their lessons and licked their wounds and are now roaring back with a vengeance.

The primary lessons learned:

1 - Do not appeal to the masses sense of making glorious history and marching forward into a New Age of Soviet Man when they cannot buy shoes or razor blades. Allow as much "free market capitalism" as is needed to build and sustain a vigorous consumer economy, with plenty of bright shiny things to be bought on credit. Pay no mind to the idea of "counterrevolutionary" capital owners waylaying your plans for global hegemony. They can be convinced to adopt any leftist cause or position you want, when properly pressured and framed. They don't care, as long as money is being made.

2 - Class struggle is a losing issue. Deep down inside, every poor person wants to be the rich man in the limo with three beautiful women on his arm. Substitute class struggle for race and identity struggle. Convince as many people as possible that their tribe and their identity is under constant attack and threat from the oppressive ruling class.

3 - Dominate every form of institution that shapes public opinion.

4 - Always remember that people do not want freedom. They want to be fed, entertained and to exercise petty power over their fellow man.