Utah set to drop blood alcohol limit to .05

[Swordsmyth]

Utah is getting ready to implement the strictest blood-alcohol driving limits (https://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95463&page=1) in the country.
The law (https://le.utah.gov/~2017/bills/static/HB0155.html), which was passed in March 2017 by Gov. Gary Herbert, will define driving under the influence as having a “blood or breath alcohol concentration of .05 grams or greater,” making it lower than the nation’s standard of .08.


Under the new law, which will go into effect Dec. 30, a person will also be charged with “automobile homicide” if they kill another person while operating a vehicle with a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) level of .05 or higher -- considered a third-degree felony.
By lowering the BAC limit, Utah becomes the first and only state to take action on the National Transportation Safety Board’s recommendations to lower BAC limits to .05. In the report (https://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/Documents/Abstract_Reaching_Zero.pdf), NTSB stated that “more than 100 countries (https://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90964&page=1) have already established per se BAC limits at or below 0.05.”

More at: https://www.yahoo.com/gma/utah-set-drop-blood-alcohol-limit-05-making-200004987--abc-news-topstories.html

[RonZeplin]

They have to purify the State so that Senator Mittens can move there.

[Stratovarious]

If you went to party sat nite , you're 'legally'
drunk-driving tue , meanwhile the other 24k/yr
fatalaties caused by aggressive and incompetent
drivers get a pass.


*one hand typing 4 few days/weeks , no spell checkers & grammar police pleez .....

[luctor-et-emergo]

It all depends.

I've seen a test on TV where they had a cop with a breathalizer, a prosecutor and an average Joe who likes a beer...
At the end of the segment the average Joe was having fun while the prosecutor was nearly having a mental breakdown...

It turned out that on a nice summer day, with a normal lunch, this average Joe could drink 9 normal pilsners before being over the limit. Every time waiting 10 minutes after finishing the beer and testing again, essentially drinking beer for an entire afternoon. The best part was this guy thought himself he definitely wasn't allowed to drive anymore after 6 beers (even though he felt okay).

We also have the .05 limit here. I don't know where the limit should be. I prefer roadside sobriety tests over breathalizers to weed out people who can't drive, not perfect but at least it shows you're not able to function properly.

[Suzanimal]

It all depends.

I've seen a test on TV where they had a cop with a breathalizer, a prosecutor and an average Joe who likes a beer...
At the end of the segment the average Joe was having fun while the prosecutor was nearly having a mental breakdown...

It turned out that on a nice summer day, with a normal lunch, this average Joe could drink 9 normal pilsners before being over the limit. Every time waiting 10 minutes after finishing the beer and testing again, essentially drinking beer for an entire afternoon. The best part was this guy thought himself he definitely wasn't allowed to drive anymore after 6 beers (even though he felt okay).

We also have the .05 limit here. I don't know where the limit should be. I prefer roadside sobriety tests over breathalizers to weed out people who can't drive, not perfect but at least it shows you're not able to function properly.

I can't pass a roadside sobriety test stone cold sober so I'm calling a big fat no on that one.

[Suzanimal]

I would be considered legally drunk after one glass of wine. Ridiculous.

[luctor-et-emergo]

I can't pass a roadside sobriety test stone cold sober so I'm calling a big fat no on that one.

I get that, I don't think reciting the alphabet backwards is a very good way to judge peoples capability towards driving. I have no need to do that sober nor drunk so no particular skill either...

Would you agree however it's more useful to look at peoples capabilities than some kind of (arbitrary) blood content ?

I mean, the US Air Force used to give pilots amphetamines (not sure if that still is the case, Danke ?) to keep them concentrated/awake on long missions. Normal person uses this while driving, loses their license and goes to jail. Makes no sense to me.

[Stratovarious]

I'm in favor of police watching for weaving drunks
and aggressive and hostile drivers, ditch the breathalyzer
as mentioned.
60% of fatalities are caused by sober drivers and 99% of those
deaths in my view are 'avoidable' .


*one hand typing 4 few days/weeks , no spell checkers & grammar police pleez .....

[Suzanimal]

I get that, I don't think reciting the alphabet backwards is a very good way to judge peoples capability towards driving. I have no need to do that sober nor drunk so no particular skill either...

Would you agree however it's more useful to look at peoples capabilities than some kind of (arbitrary) blood content ?

I mean, the US Air Force used to give pilots amphetamines (not sure if that still is the case, Danke ?) to keep them concentrated/awake on long missions. Normal person uses this while driving, loses their license and goes to jail. Makes no sense to me.

How about going back to the good old days when they pulled you over if you were driving like an idoit and gave you a ride home (I don't recommend getting in the car with a cop for a ride home - I did it once only because it was before cell phones and I would've been left on a country road alone in the middle of the night) or just let you call someone.

[luctor-et-emergo]

I'm in favor of police watching for weaving drunks
and aggressive and hostile drivers, ditch the breathalyzer
as mentioned.
60% of fatalities are caused by sober drivers and 99% of those
deaths in my view are 'avoidable' .


*one hand typing 4 few days/weeks , no spell checkers & grammar police pleez .....

Every morning when I drive to work (about 40mi/40min-1hr) I see (almost)-accidents.

They usually happen in the same places. For instance, we have a highway with two lanes on either side, grass and barrier in the middle. Semi-trucks are driving on the right lane (only allowed to overtake on the left here). Then you get an entrance to the highway... People going to work with no patience at all, simply moving two lanes at low speed not looking at any faster traffic on the left lane. In many cases forcing the car on the left lane to brake very hard. There is one location here where there is a multi-car pile up at least 4-6 times a year due to this exact issue.

Similarly, people do not keep their distance, which I understand because lots of people don't think while driving or don't care. Especially drivers of delivery vans seem to wanna kill themselves. They regularly just throw their vehicle in front of you. I've had them put on their indicators and just push me off the road, which is why I have dual dash cams in my car, front and back. I may even add two more to film 60degrees to the side from the back window, capturing most of what is happening besides me.

I got the dash cams after I hit a barrier... Caused by someone not paying attention, who instead of smashing into the car in front of them, threw their car in front of me. I was doing the speed limit, this car was much slower... I had to slam on the brakes on a wet road to avoid the car but got some serious oversteer as a result and kissed the barrier (A nice scratch but as I can drive a little I avoided totalling my car) after which I resumed full control again. Not my mistake but as I did not hit the other car and they didn't stop afterwards, I can't claim anything at my insurance. Pretty sure I could if I had the video.

[luctor-et-emergo]

How about going back to the good old days when they pulled you over if you were driving like an idoit and gave you a ride home (I don't recommend getting in the car with a cop for a ride home - I did it once only because it was before cell phones and I would've been left on a country road alone in the middle of the night) or just let you call someone.

That sort of thing still happens here in small towns, when people know each other. But it's getting rare. In the end, if you know people, you have a better shot at getting through to them and making them understand they put other peoples lives in danger. As well as the shame factor of letting down people 'close' to you.

I prefer cops who would approach a situation like that. I mean, I don't think putting drunk drivers in jail and ruining any chances of a normal life for them is going to make the world a much better place. There must be better ways to handle safety on the road. Maybe the money used on jailing/etc drunk drivers could be used to pay for Ubers, let cops hand out tickets at clubs for people who came by car... ;)

[phill4paul]

No victim, no crime. As far as death by motor vehicle there is already vehicular homocide or vehicular manslaughter laws. All that is needed is to prove criminal negligence.

But, The NTSB is the government strong arm of M.A.D.D. An organization that has become full on prohibition oriented.

[Stratovarious]

Every morning when I drive to work (about 40mi/40min-1hr) I see (almost)-accidents.

They usually happen in the same places. For instance, we have a highway with two lanes on either side, grass and barrier in the middle. Semi-trucks are driving on the right lane (only allowed to overtake on the left here). Then you get an entrance to the highway... People going to work with no patience at all, simply moving two lanes at low speed not looking at any faster traffic on the left lane. In many cases forcing the car on the left lane to brake very hard. There is one location here where there is a multi-car pile up at least 4-6 times a year due to this exact issue.

Similarly, people do not keep their distance, which I understand because lots of people don't think while driving or don't care. Especially drivers of delivery vans seem to wanna kill themselves. They regularly just throw their vehicle in front of you. I've had them put on their indicators and just push me off the road, which is why I have dual dash cams in my car, front and back. I may even add two more to film 60degrees to the side from the back window, capturing most of what is happening besides me.

I got the dash cams after I hit a barrier... Caused by someone not paying attention, who instead of smashing into the car in front of them, threw their car in front of me. I was doing the speed limit, this car was much slower... I had to slam on the brakes on a wet road to avoid the car but got some serious oversteer as a result and kissed the barrier (A nice scratch but as I can drive a little I avoided totalling my car) after which I resumed full control again. Not my mistake but as I did not hit the other car and they didn't stop afterwards, I can't claim anything at my insurance. Pretty sure I could if I had the video.
I hear you, and i forgot to include the term 'impatient'
drivers, also those that choose to try to teach
a lesson for anyone that doesn't drive the way they
want them to.
Hitting that pylon in your situation is what i would
call a true accident, not anything you could avoid,
that falls into my 1% category.
I give a couple flashes before committing to a turn
when i can see it will benefit a driver behind me,
especially coming off the hwy where there
are no turn outs,
most are smart enough to get it and either take
advantage of the heads up and change lanes
as is my intention, or if they're not in a hurry they just
slow down noticeably to keep that safe distance
and i get off the road quick as i can.


*one hand typing 4 few days/weeks , no spell checkers & grammar police pleez .....



.

[RJB]

I get that, I don't think reciting the alphabet backwards is a very good way to judge peoples capability towards driving.
Cops aren't looking to see if you can recite the alphabet perfectly. They are seeing how much you slur and act drunk as you think about the next letter. People forget to act sober when they are concentrating on something else.

[RJB]

When dealing with cops, don't get caught up in the games they play. That's a distraction from your goal. Your goal is to get out of that situation and say as little as possible.

[Stratovarious]

One thing that could cut down on accidents is intelligent
fwy signage , for instance going into Vegas from
the southeast is a terrible bumbling nightmare to
anyone that hasn't gone through there b4
they give no clue as to what lanes you need to be in
to wind up on one of the 5 or 6 exchanges that you need
to take ,all within 2 or 3 miles of each other at
75 mph - - some courteous drivers and some that
won't let you chnge lanes on a bet.
All they need to do to correct the 'nightmare'
is list the lane numbers adjacent to the exchanges;
Lane 1,2 Utah 95
lane 3 ,4 Sacramento 5
lane 5, 6 San bernadino 15
lane 7 downtown Vegas
I remember back in parts of OC and LA, they had
it all laid out perfectly so you didn't have to guess.

*one hand typing 4 few days/weeks , no spell checkers & grammar police pleez .....
.

[RJB]

, for instance going into Vegas from
the southeast is a terrible bumbling nightmare to
anyone that hasn't gone through there b4.
This is off topic but I almost killed myself driving into Vegas after midnight. I drove all day and was hypnotized by the dark road, then all of the sudden there are frickin lights everywhere. I stopped at a green light, almost blew through a red. Pissed off a cab driver... and I was sober. Vegas is crazy when coming out of the quiet of the desert

[Suzanimal]

One thing that could cut down on accidents is intelligent
fwy signage , for instance going into Vegas from
the southeast is a terrible bumbling nightmare to
anyone that hasn't gone through there b4
they give no clue as to what lanes you need to be in
to wind up on one of the 5 or 6 exchanges that you need
to take ,all within 2 or 3 miles of each other at
75 mph - - some courteous drivers and some that
won't let you chnge lanes on a bet.
All they need to do to correct the 'nightmare'
is list the lane numbers adjacent to the exchanges;
Lane 1,2 Utah 95
lane 3 ,4 Sacramento 5
lane 5, 6 San bernadino 15
lane 7 downtown Vegas
I remember back in parts of OC and LA, they had
it all laid out perfectly so you didn't have to guess.

*one hand typing 4 few days/weeks , no spell checkers & grammar police pleez .....
.

Atlanta is a CF, too.

[Slave Mentality]

No victim, no crime. As far as death by motor vehicle there is already vehicular homocide or vehicular manslaughter laws. All that is needed is to prove criminal negligence.

But, The NTSB is the government strong arm of M.A.D.D. An organization that has become full on prohibition oriented.

Indeed. The state creating laws that make themselves the victim is fucked on so many levels. The more troubling realization is that 95% of the country is all “duhhhhhhh, if it can just save ONE life, then it’s all worth it”. A special place in hell.

[phill4paul]

One thing that could cut down on accidents is intelligent
fwy signage , for instance going into Vegas from
the southeast is a terrible bumbling nightmare to
anyone that hasn't gone through there b4
they give no clue as to what lanes you need to be in
to wind up on one of the 5 or 6 exchanges that you need
to take ,all within 2 or 3 miles of each other at
75 mph - - some courteous drivers and some that
won't let you chnge lanes on a bet.
All they need to do to correct the 'nightmare'
is list the lane numbers adjacent to the exchanges;
Lane 1,2 Utah 95
lane 3 ,4 Sacramento 5
lane 5, 6 San bernadino 15
lane 7 downtown Vegas
I remember back in parts of OC and LA, they had
it all laid out perfectly so you didn't have to guess.

*one hand typing 4 few days/weeks , no spell checkers & grammar police pleez .....
.

Amen.


Atlanta is a CF, too.

Been there, done it. CF for sure.

[phill4paul]

Cops aren't looking to see if you can recite the alphabet perfectly. They are seeing how much you slur and act drunk as you think about the next letter. People forget to act sober when they are concentrating on something else.

Don't even give a road side breathalyzer. Those things are notorious for false reads.

My standard reply, and I did it about three weeks ago....

"I'm sorry, I'm too old to dance like your monkey. If you want a breathalyzer you will have to take me to the station."

I apparently wasn't worth much more of her time as she cautioned me about driving drunk or stoned and sent me on my way.

Edit: I also presented my "lawyer on retainer card" along with my license.

[oyarde]

.015 seems a little more reasonable but it is already against the law to kill someone so ........

[oyarde]

.05 is basically just a backdoor ban and witch hunt for revenue from violations , it has nothing to do with safety and is only about statism . It is more or less about the same as retard east coast and kalifornia UnConstitutional weapons laws . There will be no improvement of safety just less freedom and in this case more dollars for them.

[oyarde]

Everything about these laws is retarded . Personally why I feel no moral obligation to observe any of them . Third degree felony for killing someone at .05 BAC ? That about the same charge as a quarter pound of weed there ?

[luctor-et-emergo]

I hear you, and i forgot to include the term 'impatient'
drivers, also those that choose to try to teach
a lesson for anyone that doesn't drive the way they
want them to.
Hitting that pylon in your situation is what i would
call a true accident, not anything you could avoid,
that falls into my 1% category.
I give a couple flashes before committing to a turn
when i can see it will benefit a driver behind me,
especially coming off the hwy where there
are no turn outs,
most are smart enough to get it and either take
advantage of the heads up and change lanes
as is my intention, or if they're not in a hurry they just
slow down noticeably to keep that safe distance
and i get off the road quick as i can.


*one hand typing 4 few days/weeks , no spell checkers & grammar police pleez .....



.

Don't worry about your spelling, you're perfectly readable.

I don't know what to call it, I prevented a potential whiplash and much worse accident on the person causing it as I avoided their car. I like to drive, I like to drive in a little bit of a sporty way.. I use my indicators religiously, even if nobody is around, just a habit. I always try to be a social driver and I anticipate traffic like a motorcyclist, I don't assume people have seen me. I drive about 30.000miles a year through serious traffic for the past couple of years. Before that I drove a little less but I've never had any other accident beyond this experience. I never even made a scratch on my own or someone else car. I pay almost nothing for insurance as a result.

P.S. I could post some dashcam footage of stuff I see. I don't ever save any of it and my dashcam only holds 1 day worth of driving (2hrs or so). Last week I almost downloaded some footage as someone passed me on a 40mph road at 80mph within a couple of inches of slamming head on into an oncoming semi. Which got me angry, I don't care about people killing themselves, but I do mind if they intend to take me with them or create a longer commute. You may notice I don't have too much empathy for people who want to risk everything for a few seconds of difference to their commute. I don't. I like driving but first and foremost is safety. First thing you learn on the German Autobahn, driving 150mph is to realise that people do stupid stuff and you have to minimise your exposure to that. In some cases, that means slowing down because you see a car behind a semi and they might pull in front of you... It's your own safety.

[Stratovarious]

Don't even give a road side breathalyzer. Those things are notorious for false reads.

My standard reply, and I did it about three weeks ago....

"I'm sorry, I'm too old to dance like your monkey. If you want a breathalyzer you will have to take me to the station."

I apparently wasn't worth much more of her time as she cautioned me about driving drunk or stoned and sent me on my way.

Edit: I also presented my "lawyer on retainer card" along with my license.

I've heard reports of drivers forced to keep blowin on that breathalyzer till they show
over limit, like al gore , he wants a recount till he wins......

-
*one hand typing 4 few days/weeks , no spell checkers & grammar police pleez .....

[Stratovarious]

This is off topic but I almost killed myself driving into Vegas after midnight. I drove all day and was hypnotized by the dark road, then all of the sudden there are frickin lights everywhere. I stopped at a green light, almost blew through a red. Pissed off a cab driver... and I was sober. Vegas is crazy when coming out of the quiet of the desert

ha ha, they should give us an air raid siren 3mi before town, probably would do me no good now though
I used to drive 4hrs into town , now 2hrs feels too much:frog:

[Stratovarious]

Atlanta is a CF, too.
I believe it, probably lots of older infra structure, I don't think Vegas
hasn't any kind of legit excuse.

[Suzanimal]

I believe it, probably lots of older infra structure, I don't think Vegas
hasn't any kind of legit excuse.

It's hilly so none of the roads are straight. It also doesn't help that most of them are called Peachtree.


In fact, it is often joked by natives that half of the streets in Atlanta are named Peachtree, and the other half have five names to make up for it. While “Peachtree” alone almost always refers to this street or its continuations, there are 71 streets in Atlanta with a variant of “Peachtree” in their name.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peachtree_Street

[Pauls' Revere]

Can Ocasio-Cortez give us all driverless cars for free?

[jkr]

I've heard reports of drivers forced to keep blowin on that breathalyzer till they show
over limit, like al gore , he wants a recount till he wins......

-
*one hand typing 4 few days/weeks , no spell checkers & grammar police pleez .....

Happened 2 me... I blew .26!

yes

.26


its bullshit

[Stratovarious]

Don't worry about your spelling, you're perfectly readable.

I don't know what to call it, I prevented a potential whiplash and much worse accident on the person causing it as I avoided their car. I like to drive, I like to drive in a little bit of a sporty way.. I use my indicators religiously, even if nobody is around, just a habit. I always try to be a social driver and I anticipate traffic like a motorcyclist, I don't assume people have seen me. I drive about 30.000miles a year through serious traffic for the past couple of years. Before that I drove a little less but I've never had any other accident beyond this experience. I never even made a scratch on my own or someone else car. I pay almost nothing for insurance as a result.

P.S. I could post some dashcam footage of stuff I see. I don't ever save any of it and my dashcam only holds 1 day worth of driving (2hrs or so). Last week I almost downloaded some footage as someone passed me on a 40mph road at 80mph within a couple of inches of slamming head on into an oncoming semi. Which got me angry, I don't care about people killing themselves, but I do mind if they intend to take me with them or create a longer commute. You may notice I don't have too much empathy for people who want to risk everything for a few seconds of difference to their commute. I don't. I like driving but first and foremost is safety. First thing you learn on the German Autobahn, driving 150mph is to realise that people do stupid stuff and you have to minimise your exposure to that. In some cases, that means slowing down because you see a car behind a semi and they might pull in front of you... It's your own safety.


yea, I totally get that, I drive in anticipation of what Is going on 4 or 5
vehicles ahead , if everyone looks like they know what they're doing
I'm right there, if I see a conflict or aggressive jerk ,I tend to back off
let them duel it out.
I don't mind 'speeders' and racers so long as they know when to back off
and what the traffic will bear, I used to do a bit of that myself
but would always ease up on approach , get passed then dime it.
One thing about the racers in my small town is that they usually don't
tailgate, I give them room to get around me, no point in starting a
war over it, plus they're down the road and not hanging around in my blind spot.
.
I've got 2 finners out for a while, and not bothering to edit and fix errors for now.
I FIGURE as long as I rember to hit left 'alin, I should be half ok.:frog:

[Stratovarious]

Happened 2 me... I blew .26!

yes

.26


its bull$#@!
.
That's wut ? FIVE 18 paks?

:toady: I'm having to type in my own smilies....what is a goin on this am.....

[Stratovarious]

It's hilly so none of the roads are straight. It also doesn't help that most of them are called Peachtree.


In fact, it is often joked by natives that half of the streets in Atlanta are named Peachtree, and the other half have five names to make up for it. While “Peachtree” alone almost always refers to this street or its continuations, there are 71 streets in Atlanta with a variant of “Peachtree” in their name.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peachtree_Street

HA ha ,too funny , we have housing tracts like that , every street is like view lane or view cir, park blvd ave etc...
...edit; worse yet is a town40mi fromhere; kingman az
most streets circle, meander and intersect if you can imagine trying to find
anything or place, I had to laugh when a local genius tried to convince me of how simple it was :frog:

[Stratovarious]

Can Ocasio-Cortez give us all driverless cars for free?
I'm not a driverless fan by any stretch but joked a few months ago on youtube about allowing a dv
to take us to and from the' Bar....they're not likely to do that.

[Brian4Liberty]

It all depends.

I've seen a test on TV where they had a cop with a breathalizer, a prosecutor and an average Joe who likes a beer...
At the end of the segment the average Joe was having fun while the prosecutor was nearly having a mental breakdown...

It turned out that on a nice summer day, with a normal lunch, this average Joe could drink 9 normal pilsners before being over the limit. Every time waiting 10 minutes after finishing the beer and testing again, essentially drinking beer for an entire afternoon. The best part was this guy thought himself he definitely wasn't allowed to drive anymore after 6 beers (even though he felt okay).

We also have the .05 limit here. I don't know where the limit should be. I prefer roadside sobriety tests over breathalizers to weed out people who can't drive, not perfect but at least it shows you're not able to function properly.

Checkpoints? Sure, those are great. You can do so much at those. Check for illegal immigrants, check for any outstanding warrants, check for drugs, weapons and excess cash. Roadside checkoints are a dream (to the authoritarian police state).


.05 is basically just a backdoor ban and witch hunt for revenue from violations , it has nothing to do with safety and is only about statism . It is more or less about the same as retard east coast and kalifornia UnConstitutional weapons laws . There will be no improvement of safety just less freedom and in this case more dollars for them.

They are neo-prohibitionists. Which is worse, living under Sharia law, or living under LDS law? There are similarities.

[CCTelander]

Do-gooders and safety nazis eat this kind of shit up. "It's for the children."

[Dr.3D]

How about folks who never had a drink, blowing 0.12 g/dL?
Gut Fermentation Syndrome (https://www.medicalbag.com/profile-in-rare-diseases/gut-fermentation-syndrome/article/472431/)

[Anti Federalist]

Presumptive vs. Actual Impairment

https://www.ericpetersautos.com/2018/12/14/presumptive-vs-actual-impairment/

By eric - December 14, 2018

Yesterday, my buddy got into an accident. An actual accident – because it was one he could not have avoided. A minivan pulled out in front of him, struck his Jeep – which spun several times before ending up in a ditch. My buddy is largely unhurt – except for his heart. Because his Jeep, which he loves and also put a lot of work into – is probably totaled.

The interesting thing about this accident is that it is the result of impairment – but one treated with relative kid gloves by the cops and courts and insurance mafia.

My buddy’s Jeep sits in a wrecking yard because a senile, confused old man pulled out in front of him. A nice enough old man, according to my buddy. He admitted fault, was apologetic.

Certainly he didn’t mean to pull out in front of my buddy.

But impaired, nonetheless. And his impairment resulted in actual damage to property and could have resulted in actual damage to my buddy, himself.

Yet this form of clearcut impairment – driving while senile/glaucomic – is handled very differently – far more leniently – than other forms of arbitrary, presumptive impairment.

And not even that.

If, for example, you have the bad luck to drive by a cop while traveling slightly faster than the speed limit and he turns around and pulls you over to issue you a ticket for speeding – and in the course of interviewing you, sees the empty beer bottle you decided not to throw out the window – you can be arrested for “drunk” driving.

Even though you drank the beer three hours before – and even though one beer cannot get anyone over the age of eight “drunk.”

Even if your BAC is well within the margin of legality. You have an “open container” – and that is enough. (Best to litter, in this case.)

If you are not 21 and drank a beer – or even had a sip of one and Officer Unfriendly catches a whiff on your breath – you also face arrest/conviction and severe consequences for “dunk” driving – even though you obviously weren’t.



You can also be arrested for “drunk” driving even when you haven’t been driving.

Just being in the car is enough – even if it’s in the back seat and you’re fast asleep. The actual driving part of “drunk driving” is no longer necessary, legally speaking – even though it is hard to imagine what possible harm a parked car might cause. You are still subject to arrest for “driving” drunk – and will be roasted over the coals by the system and the insurance mafia, just the same as an 18-year-old who has a 17-year-old girlfriend is labeled a “sex offender” for life by the same system.

It is also presumed that a certain arbitrary percentage of alcohol in your blood means you are impaired – ipso facto – and you are treated as if you did actually cause harm to persons or property – even though the former has not been established and the latter is manifestly not the case.

Your actual driving is irrelevant. All that matters – to the cop, the courts and the insurance mafia – is the arbitrary BAC level.

To get back to my buddy’s accident – or rather, the accident which befell him – in order to make the point:

The old man who veered into his path, struck his Jeep and (probably) totaled it received a minor traffic citation – Failure to Yield Right of Way – and was allowed to go home once all the paperwork was handled.

Another man – who didn’t veer into anyone’s path, or cause damage to anyone’s property or person – but who is found to have a .06 BAC at a “roadside sobriety” checkpoint – will find himself in manacles first, the backseat of a police car second and a jail cell third. He will be charged with a serious misdemeanor, one slim notch below a felony.

He will pay exorbitant lawyer bills even if he isn’t convicted.

And if he is convicted, he will also pay exorbitant fines as well as exorbitant insurance premiums for years to come. Probably, he will have his license to drive rescinded or restricted. He may be ordered to attend – and pay for – weeks of “alcohol awareness” sessions (i.e., ASAP).

This will happen in the absence of any harm caused – on the basis of presumed impairment.

It is not necessary for the court to establish that the offender’s actual driving was dangerous, as by testimony about weaving or some other objective evidence of poor driving.

it is only necessary to establish that the “drunk” driver had “x” BAC at the time of his arrest.

Try to imagine what the results would have been if my buddy had been run off the road by a young – and actually drunk – driver. It would have been more than a ticket. And yet, the end result – my buddy’s wrecked Jeep – would have been precisely the same.

But the treatment meted out to the cause would have been very different.

It is certainly not equal justice – even though it is entirely “under the law.” Neither the young drunk nor the glaucomic/senile oldster meant to do any harm. Does this affect the state of my buddy’s Jeep?

But alleged impairment by alcohol is somehow regarded as a far more egregious offense than other forms of objectively demonstrable impairment – i.e., a totaled Jeep.

Even when the alleged impairment doesn’t actually result in any harm at all.

[specsaregood]

I don't care for most of the stupid standup comedy specials on Netflix. But this one by Ron White is pretty good.
https://www.netflix.com/watch/80244900
He has a great bit on DUIs. Jump to 5minutes into it.

"That not a sobriety test, that's an agility test and im not very goddamn agile..."

"You know what a fair drunk driving test is? Drunk driving! Get in the car, let's do a couple of blocks, let me show you some skills!"

[devil21]

Just don't agree to the driver's license contract and don't consent to jurisdiction. Or alternatively, if you agreed to the contract, set your terms for your end of administering the contract dispute up front when approached by the cop. Who works for free? Think about it.

It's all business and all voluntary.



It is also presumed that a certain arbitrary percentage of alcohol in your blood means you are impaired – ipso facto – and you are treated as if you did actually cause harm to persons or property – even though the former has not been established and the latter is manifestly not the case.

Your actual driving is irrelevant. All that matters – to the cop, the courts and the insurance mafia – is the arbitrary BAC level.


"Implied consent" and "arbitrary presumptions" are based upon agreeing to the terms of a contract, hence why there's no proof of actual impairment needed. A "driver" agreed to the letter of the contract (the statutory BAC limit) and is violating the terms of the contract. That's all that matters in business law. Did you violate the contract you agreed to? Yes? Liability established. All victimless "crimes" are actually nothing more than contract terms violations being enforced under color of law.

It's all business!

[shakey1]

3rd verse:
You know, just the other night, these cops pulled me over outside a bar.
They turned on their lights, and ordered me outta my car.
And I was only kidding when I called 'em a coupla dicks,
But still they made me do the Stupid Human Tricks,
And now I'm stuck in this jail with a bunch of dumb hicks
And I still don't know why.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGL-2Zg2bqw