Melania Trump calls for firing of national security aide

[Swordsmyth]

Melania Trump on Tuesday publicly pushed for the dismissal of deputy national security advisor Mira Ricardel -- a rare criticism of a senior administration official by the president's wife.The rebuke -- via a brief statement from the first lady's spokeswoman -- came amid swirling speculation about a possible shake-up of President Donald Trump's cabinet following last week's midterm elections.
"It is the position of the Office of the First Lady that she no longer deserves the honor of serving in this White House," Melania Trump's spokeswoman Stephanie Grisham said in a statement.
The Wall Street Journal claimed Ricardel had been fired and escorted out of the White House, but an administration official denied that to reporters.
Ricardel reportedly battled with the first lady's staff during her trip to Africa last month, and was believed to be the source of negative stories about Melania Trump, according to the Journal, which cited unnamed sources.

More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/melania-trump-calls-firing-national-security-aide-210818437.html

Do we know anythnig about Ricardel?

[TheTexan]

I'm not sure why she has her panties in a jealousy bunch, she's not even that pretty

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Mira_Ricardel_official_photo.jpg/220px-Mira_Ricardel_official_photo.jpg

[goldenequity]

Do we know anythnig about Ricardel?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-13/trump-renews-attack-on-macron-as-bromance-turns-sours
Bolton likes her.
Bolton hired her in April from the Commerce Department.
She previously worked in the Defense Department under President George W. Bush.

Ricardel is widely disliked among other White House staff.
She’s regarded as inflexible and obsessed with process.

she's toast. buh bye.

[Swordsmyth]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-13/trump-renews-attack-on-macron-as-bromance-turns-sours
Bolton likes her.
Bolton hired her in April from the Commerce Department.
She previously worked in the Defense Department under President George W. Bush.

Ricardel is widely disliked among other White House staff.
She’s regarded as inflexible and obsessed with process.

she's toast. buh bye.
Thanks, I hope her replacement is better.

I owe you rep.

[Anti Globalist]

Hope the door don't hit her on the way out.

[oyarde]

I'm not sure why she has her panties in a jealousy bunch, she's not even that pretty

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Mira_Ricardel_official_photo.jpg/220px-Mira_Ricardel_official_photo.jpg

Danke can make room for her .

[Swordsmyth]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-13/trump-renews-attack-on-macron-as-bromance-turns-sours
Bolton likes her.
Bolton hired her in April from the Commerce Department.
She previously worked in the Defense Department under President George W. Bush.

Ricardel is widely disliked among other White House staff.
She’s regarded as inflexible and obsessed with process.

she's toast. buh bye.

The link you posted is to the wrong article, here is the right one: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-13/melania-trump-says-bolton-deputy-ricardel-should-be-ousted

[specsaregood]

Maybe we should start lobbying Melania to get Trump to do good things.

[Swordsmyth]

Just one day after the office of first lady Melania Trump issued an extraordinary call for her dismissal, deputy national security adviser Mira Ricardel is officially set to exit the White House, the Trump administration has announced.
“Mira Ricardel will continue to support the president as she departs the White House to transition to a new role within the administration," White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders said Wednesday. "The president is grateful for Ms. Ricardel’s continued service to the American people and her steadfast pursuit of his national security priorities.”

More at: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mira-ricardel-to-leave-white-house-after-melania-trumps-office-called-for-her-dismissal

[enhanced_deficit]

Maybe we should start lobbying Melania to get Trump to do good things.

Actually other family members can also be effective in getting things done.



https://s1-ssl.dmcdn.net/idN-W/x720-vY5.jpg



Jared Kushner reportedly pressed for Comey's firing as FBI director



President Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, pressed for the firing of James Comey's as FBI director, The Wall Street Journal reports.
The firing is reportedly being investigated by Special Counsel Robert Mueller as a possible attempt to obstruct justice.

Published Wed, 22 Nov 2017

[RJ Liberty]

Actually other family members can also be effective in getting things done.



https://s1-ssl.dmcdn.net/idN-W/x720-vY5.jpg



Jared Kushner reportedly pressed for Comey's firing as FBI director



President Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, pressed for the firing of James Comey's as FBI director, The Wall Street Journal reports.
The firing is reportedly being investigated by Special Counsel Robert Mueller as a possible attempt to obstruct justice.

Published Wed, 22 Nov 2017

Can you imagine any other First Daughter in history having this much power?

[RonZeplin]

Melania Trump Kneecaps Top Bolton Aide (http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/neocon-watch/2018/november/13/melania-trump-kneecaps-top-bolton-aide/)

Written by Daniel McAdams (http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/neocon-watch/?author=Daniel+McAdams)
Tuesday November 13, 2018

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/media/122008/melania.jpg?width=369px&height=227px

Hooray for First Lady Melania Trump! In a refreshingly - and shockingly - frank statement, the relatively quiet First Lady has issued a statement through her spokeswoman today making it clear that top National Security Council aide Mira Ricardel needs to hit the bricks.

Ricardel, Deputy National Security Adviser under John Bolton, is said to have (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/first-lady-melania-trumps-office-calls-for-firing-of-white-house-national-security-official/2018/11/13/1b4c3f28-e77d-11e8-bbdb-72fdbf9d4fed_story.html?utm_term=.bb5a8f333ae9) "berated people in meetings, yelled at professional staff, argued with the first lady and spread rumors about [Defense Secretary] Mattis." But denying NSC resources to the First Lady in support of Melania Trump's recent trip to Africa may have been the last straw. That and her tussling with the First Lady's staff over seating assignments on the Africa-bound plane.

According to, Stephanie Grisham, the First Lady's spokeswoman, "It is the position of the Office of the First Lady that she no longer deserves the honor of serving in this White House."

In the Kremlinology of White House power watching, what is most interesting about this dust-up is that Ricardel is firmly in the Bolton wing and has repeatedly clashed with White House Chief of Staff Kelly and Defense Secretary Mattis.

While it is currently unclear (https://twitter.com/EamonJavers/status/1062446225092423680?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcam p%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet) whether Ricardel has actually been fired, the reported move by the First Lady marks her most public foray into personnel issues. Is the First Lady looking out for President Trump's flank as second-tier neocon attack dogs nip at his ankles? We can only hope so!

What does that mean for the NSC's top dog? Might the days of John "Regime Change" Bolton be numbered as President Trump's National Security Advisor? We can only hope!

Last month Bolton's chief of staff, Fred Fleitz, unexpectedly resigned his position after just a couple of months on the job. Bolton has described Fleitz as "a longtime friend and adviser." Adding that, "he's been a valuable member of the National Security Council team."

Fleitz claimed that he decided to ditch his powerful position at the right hand of National Security Advisor Bolton because he was promised the top job at the relatively minor neoconservative think tank, Center for Security Policy. Insiders claim Fleitz's hardline neoconservative views, particularly his previously stated position (https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/07/politics/kfile-bolton-chief-of-staff-online-columns/index.html) that Islamic Sharia was "creeping" worldwide, had been a political liability to the White House.

Why the move on Ricardel by Melania? The First Lady only became a permanent US resident two years after the neocons pushed President Clinton into an unprovoked attack on her native former Yugoslavia. Is it possible the quiet Melania has retained memories of what monsters they are and is now determined to rid the Trump Administration of those scheming murderers? We shouldn't slip too deeply into this fantasy, but if that is your intent, Madame First Lady, please allow us to provide you with our top ten pink slip recommendations...

[Danke]

Danke can make room for her .


She doesn't look like she is younger than 30.

[Valli6]

Horseface.
:smirking:

I'm not sure why she has her panties in a jealousy bunch, she's not even that pretty
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Mira_Ricardel_official_photo.jpg/220px-Mira_Ricardel_official_photo.jpg

[oyarde]

She doesn't look like she is younger than 30.
When I was young I found that if you give them a good spanking it will relieve the pinched look they can acquire from working and make them appear years younger and improve vigor . Or you could purchase some of my elixir.

[enhanced_deficit]

Melania Trump Kneecaps Top Bolton Aide (http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/neocon-watch/2018/november/13/melania-trump-kneecaps-top-bolton-aide/)

Written by Daniel McAdams (http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/neocon-watch/?author=Daniel+McAdams)
Tuesday November 13, 2018

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/media/122008/melania.jpg?width=369px&height=227px

Hooray for First Lady Melania Trump! In a refreshingly - and shockingly - frank statement, the relatively quiet First Lady has issued a statement through her spokeswoman today making it clear that top National Security Council aide Mira Ricardel needs to hit the bricks.

Ricardel, Deputy National Security Adviser under John Bolton, is said to have (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/first-lady-melania-trumps-office-calls-for-firing-of-white-house-national-security-official/2018/11/13/1b4c3f28-e77d-11e8-bbdb-72fdbf9d4fed_story.html?utm_term=.bb5a8f333ae9) "berated people in meetings, yelled at professional staff, argued with the first lady and spread rumors about [Defense Secretary] Mattis." But denying NSC resources to the First Lady in support of Melania Trump's recent trip to Africa may have been the last straw. That and her tussling with the First Lady's staff over seating assignments on the Africa-bound plane.

According to, Stephanie Grisham, the First Lady's spokeswoman, "It is the position of the Office of the First Lady that she no longer deserves the honor of serving in this White House."
...

If earlier reports about Bolton camp being favorite of Jarvanka neocon wing of MAGA were factual, did FL just attack neocon wing of MAGA and this is a positive development?
Wonder where Steve Bannon stands on this issue.




Can you imagine any other First Daughter in history having this much power?

To be fair, it's not all glory and she also received horrific and politically incorrect attacks from some media outlets using g-word:

https://www.nydailynews.com/resizer/G5Z0ybb34n9C8kxtKaK82V0pHd8=/1400x0/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/7Y3DH4IUH3TXMR2P5OQJKPTFHQ.jpg

[AuH20]

She is more street smart than Trump is.

[RJ Liberty]

She is more street smart than Trump is.

But she wasn't elected or even appointed to make these decisions.

[Swordsmyth]

But she wasn't elected or even appointed to make these decisions.

And she doesn't get to make them, DJTvsg can listen to her opinion and make a decision based on it if he wants.

[RJ Liberty]

And she doesn't get to make them, DJTvsg can listen to her opinion and make a decision based on it if he wants.

Do you feel it's wise for the President of the United States to have a fashionista for a foreign policy advisor? In what capacity should any First Daughter with a background in fashion and real estate be advising the POTUS on foreign policy?


https://i.imgflip.com/2mou5q.jpg

[Swordsmyth]

Do you feel it's wise for the President of the United States to have a fashionista for a foreign policy advisor? In what capacity should any First Daughter with a background in fashion and real estate be advising the POTUS on foreign policy?


https://i.imgflip.com/2mou5q.jpg

If you think presidential family members never had any influence before you are seriously mistaken, furthermore we are talking about FLOTUS not his daughter and getting rid of a Bolton crony is a good thing so it looks like she is giving him pretty good advice.

[RJ Liberty]

If you think presidential family members never had any influence before you are seriously mistaken, furthermore we are talking about FLOTUS not his daughter and getting rid of a Bolton crony is a good thing so it looks like she is giving him pretty good advice.

BZZZT! Wrong answer! The correct answer is: "It is completely inappropriate for fashion experts to make foreign policy decisions, or serve in any role as advisor to the POTUS on matters of foreign policy." You know this, you just can't admit it.

[Swordsmyth]

BZZZT! Wrong answer! The correct answer is: "It is completely inappropriate for fashion experts to make foreign policy decisions, or serve in any role as advisor to the POTUS on matters of foreign policy." You know this, you just can't admit it.
Maybe it isn't just a foreign policy question and maybe she isn't just a fashion expert.

She said Ricardel couldn't be trusted and she just might know what she is talking about.

[RJ Liberty]

Maybe it isn't just a foreign policy question and maybe she isn't just a fashion expert.

No, Melania is just a fashionista; she's never held any other job. And Ivanka's background as a fashionista and real estate entrepreneur doesn't make her qualified to be opening embassies in Tel Aviv (https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/world/2018/05/16/ivanka-trumps-jerusalem-gaza/).



She said Ricardel couldn't be trusted and she just might know what she is talking about.

If we were talking strictly about White House staff, you'd have a point. Melania lives there, and needs to feel safe in her home. But we're talking about the Deputy National Security Advisor.

[Swordsmyth]

No, Melania is just a fashionista; she's never held any other job. And Ivanka's background as a fashionista and real estate entrepreneur doesn't make her qualified to be opening embassies in Tel Aviv (https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/world/2018/05/16/ivanka-trumps-jerusalem-gaza/).



If we were talking strictly about White House staff, you'd have a point. Melania lives there, and needs to feel safe in her home. But we're talking about the Deputy National Security Advisor.
She is a PERSON, opening embassies isn't some holy ordinance, at most it is a diplomatic function and if she has good diplomatic skills there is no reason she can't perform it.

It is even more important to be rid of a Deputy National Security Advisor who can't be trusted than if they were an ordinary WH staff member.

Stop whining, getting rid of a Death Walrus crony is a good thing and you should be thanking FLOTUS for it.

[RJ Liberty]

She is a PERSON, opening embassies isn't some holy ordinance, at most it is a diplomatic function

Which is why we have diplomats.


and if she has good diplomatic skills there is no reason she can't perform it.

You have confused "anyone can have a voice on the Internet" with "anyone with a former real estate license can open a diplomatic office in Tel Aviv".



It is even more important to be rid of a Deputy National Security Advisor who can't be trusted than if they were an ordinary WH staff member.


FLOTUS shouldn't be making that decision. First Daughters shouldn't be making foreign policy decisions. These people have no training for what they are doing. If these were Democrats, you'd completely understand why it's inappropriate to have the leader of the Free World's family making national and foreign policy decisions.

[Swordsmyth]

Which is why we have diplomats.



You have confused "anyone can have a voice on the Internet" with "anyone with a former real estate license can open a diplomatic office in Tel Aviv".
I'm sure Trump had experts to handle the details, she was just there as a pretty face.




FLOTUS shouldn't be making that decision. First Daughters shouldn't be making foreign policy decisions. These people have no training for what they are doing. If these were Democrats, you'd completely understand why it's inappropriate to have the leader of the Free World's family making national and foreign policy decisions.
She DIDN'T make the decision and if it was a Demoncrat in the WH I would have much bigger things to worry about than if he was taking advice on who he could trust from his wife, if a Demoncrat got rid of a bad staffer and replaced her with a better one because his wife advised it I would be glad for a small improvement.

[RJ Liberty]

I'm sure Trump had experts to handle the details, she was just there as a pretty face.

She was there in an official capacity; she is an official advisor to POTUS, as you must know by now.

This "any person can open an embassy" nonsense must stop. Ivanka smiling for photo ops in Jerusalem as 50 Palestinians were killed nearby endangers American lives. These bad policy decisions, made by untrained people completely unqualified to make them, cause blowback.

Last week, I was at the grocery store. The kid cutting the meat was on his first week on the job. He nearly cut his thumb off on the thin meat slicer. He hadn't been trained on the safety procedures, or on the equipment's safety features. Once he's had some training, he'll be great at his job, but he needs training.

In the same way that this kid needs training, national and foreign policy advisors need training and education. Ivanka's credentials as a former real estate agent make her a great resource on NYC-area real estate, and maybe even DC real estate. Melania's and Ivanka's fashion backgrounds make them perfect for deciding what the White House staff should wear. Their roles as advisors should not extend to national security or foreign policy, because they lack the background for such tasks. They have no national security or foreign policy credentials. "Any person" can't just be a national security advisor, because that leads to disaster.

I firmly believe that the POTUS can be any successful businessperson, with the right team of advisors to assist. When that team of advisors consists of fashion people asked to make decisions of international significance, there is a massive potential to make American people less safe.



She DIDN'T make the decision

YES SHE DID: Mira Ricardel to leave White House, after Melania Trump's office called for her dismissal (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mira-ricardel-to-leave-white-house-after-melania-trumps-office-called-for-her-dismissal). (Link to Fox News)


if it was a Demoncrat in the WH I would have much bigger things to worry about than if he was taking advice on who he could trust from his wife, if a Demoncrat got rid of a bad staffer and replaced her with a better one because his wife advised it I would be glad for a small improvement.

:tears:

No one here believes that you wouldn't criticize a Democratic president's decision to remove an official because s/he didn't get along with the President's wife. You spend all day, every day, demonizing the Democrats to the point where you call them the Demoncrats (no skin off my back, as I'm an Independent, but it's been observed frequently). You hate the Dems enough that you'd even accuse long-standing members of this forum, ones in good standing, with good reputations, even ones registered here for over a decade, of being super-seekrit Democrat-lovers, like you're Joseph McCarthy. You haven't been here long enough to get away with that shit.

[Swordsmyth]

She was there in an official capacity; she is an official advisor to POTUS, as you must know by now.

This "any person can open an embassy" nonsense must stop. Ivanka smiling for photo ops in Jerusalem as 50 Palestinians were killed nearby endangers American lives. These bad policy decisions, made by untrained people completely unqualified to make them, cause blowback.

Last week, I was at the grocery store. The kid cutting the meat was on his first week on the job. He nearly cut his thumb off on the thin meat slicer. He hadn't been trained on the safety procedures, or on the equipment's safety features. Once he's had some training, he'll be great at his job, but he needs training.

In the same way that this kid needs training, national and foreign policy advisors need training and education. Ivanka's credentials as a former real estate agent make her a great resource on NYC-area real estate, and maybe even DC real estate. Melania's and Ivanka's fashion backgrounds make them perfect for deciding what the White House staff should wear. Their roles as advisors should not extend to national security or foreign policy, because they lack the background for such tasks. They have no national security or foreign policy credentials. "Any person" can't just be a national security advisor, because that leads to disaster.

I firmly believe that the POTUS can be any successful businessperson, with the right team of advisors to assist. When that team of advisors consists of fashion people asked to make decisions of international significance, there is a massive potential to make American people less safe.
The embassy opening wouldn't have gone any different if she wasn't there.




YES SHE DID: Mira Ricardel to leave White House, after Melania Trump's office called for her dismissal (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mira-ricardel-to-leave-white-house-after-melania-trumps-office-called-for-her-dismissal). (Link to Fox News)
You don't understand the difference between calling for something and making the decision? Let me explain it:
I and others have called for zippy to be banned, the site staff and/or Bryan made the decision not to ban him so far.

Trump made the decision.




:tears:

No one here believes that you wouldn't criticize a Democratic president's decision to remove an official because s/he didn't get along with the President's wife. You spend all day, every day, demonizing the Democrats to the point where you call them the Demoncrats (no skin off my back, as I'm an Independent, but it's been observed frequently). You hate the Dems enough that you'd even accuse long-standing members of this forum, ones in good standing, with good reputations, even ones registered here for over a decade, of being super-seekrit Democrat-lovers, like you're Joseph McCarthy. You haven't been here long enough to get away with that $#@!.
Name on time I have attacked the Demoncrats for something so trivial.

[RJ Liberty]

The embassy opening wouldn't have gone any different if she wasn't there.

Yes it would have: there would be no photo ops showing the First Daughter smiling in a glittering gown as Israel bombed the fuck out of Palestine.



You don't understand the difference between calling for something and making the decision? Let me explain it:
I and others have called for zippy to be banned, the site staff and/or Bryan made the decision not to ban him so far.

Trump made the decision.

Yeah, based on a fashionista's advice. That's the problem. National security policy shouldn't be advised by a model.



Name on time I have attacked the Demoncrats for something so trivial.

As "trivial" as totally unqualified First Family members serving as advisors on events of national security and international diplomacy?

[Swordsmyth]

Yes it would have: there would be no photo ops showing the First Daughter smiling in a glittering gown as Israel bombed the $#@! out of Palestine.
No, there would have been no difference, there would have been plenty of pictures of other well dressed people smiling and laughing.




Yeah, based on a fashionista's advice. That's the problem. National security policy shouldn't be advised by a model.
It wasn't national security policy, it was a case of a staffer who couldn't be trusted.





As "trivial" as totally unqualified First Family members serving as advisors on events of national security and international diplomacy?
As trivial has a man listening to his wife about who around the two of them can't be trusted.

[RJ Liberty]

No, there would have been no difference, there would have been plenty of pictures of other well dressed people smiling and laughing.

Not the President's daughter. No million-dollar gowns, as Palestine is bombed.



It wasn't national security policy

...to remove the Deputy National Security Advisor? Please.

[Swordsmyth]

Not the President's daughter. No million-dollar gowns, as Palestine is bombed.
No difference of any significance.




...to remove the Deputy National Security Advisor? Please.
It wasn't national security policy, it was a staffing decision that MAY affect national security policy. (If it affects it at all it is likely to be a good thing considering the fact that she was a Bolton crony)

[RJ Liberty]

No difference of any significance.

The images of Ivanka, in a designer dress, smiling and posing for selfies, as Palestine, one of the poorest places on earth, is blown up were broadcast and printed around the world. You either refuse to understand, or you're incapable of understanding the hatred those images caused, exposing the United States to further blowback.

You claimed, earlier, that Ivanka was qualified to open the embassy because she is "A PERSON", as if any person has the background and emotional intelligence to successfully navigate the waters of the Middle East Israel/Palestine dispute; you don't understand basic diplomacy. You're the exact type of person who believed that someone who didn't know that Africa was a continent, and didn't know what the Fed was (according to Republicans who tried to work with her), was somehow qualified to serve as VP of the United States. Unqualified people can't and shouldn't just get any job because of who they know or who their relatives are, or what political party they're members of.

https://imgs.aftonbladet-cdn.se/v2/images/14491653-5001-4c14-bf78-7b710b8a2a1d?fit=crop&h=375&w=718&ddf8dad4




It wasn't national security policy, it was a staffing decision that MAY affect national security policy.

:rolleyes:

Fashion models, no matter their relation to the president, should not be advising the POTUS on matters of national security, national security staffing, national security policy, national security spending, national security meetings, national security organization, national security funding, or even national security dinner reservations. But you know this.

[Swordsmyth]

The images of Ivanka, in a designer dress, smiling and posing for selfies, as Palestine, one of the poorest places on earth, is blown up were broadcast and printed around the world. You either refuse to understand, or you're incapable of understanding the hatred those images caused, exposing the United States to further blowback.
You refuse to understand or are incapable of understanding that those pictures were not significantly different than pictures of other well dressed people smiling and laughing that would have had the same effects.


You claimed, earlier, that Ivanka was qualified to open the embassy because she is "A PERSON", as if any person has the background and emotional intelligence to successfully navigate the waters of the Middle East Israel/Palestine dispute; you don't understand basic diplomacy.
No, I said Melania was qualified to give advice on who was trustworthy because she is a person and not just a fashion expert.
You keep confusing Ivanka and Melania throughout this conversation.
I said Ivanka was just a pretty face and had no impact on diplomacy other than being diplomatic at a diplomatic party to open an embassy, it's not like she made the decision to move the embassy.



You're the exact type of person who believed that someone who didn't know that Africa was a continent, and didn't know what the Fed was (according to Republicans who tried to work with her), was somehow qualified to serve as VP of the United States. Unqualified people can't and shouldn't just get any job because of who they know or who their relatives are, or what political party they're members of.
Now you are just making things up.







:rolleyes:

Fashion models, no matter their relation to the president, should not be advising the POTUS on matters of national security, national security staffing, national security policy, national security spending, national security meetings, national security organization, national security funding, or even national security dinner reservations. But you know this.
You keep reducing her to nothing but a fashion model in spite of my reminder to you that she is a person, she has every right to advise her husband about people she finds to be untrustworthy.

[RJ Liberty]

You refuse to understand or are incapable of understanding that those pictures were not significantly different than pictures of other well dressed people smiling and laughing that would have had the same effects.

You're right that I don't understand that, because it's not true.




No, I said Melania was qualified to give advice on who was trustworthy because she is a person and not just a fashion expert.

Melania didn't just "give advice" on who is trustworthy. She called for the firing of the Deputy National Security Adviser, and used her power as FLOTUS to make it happen. This is not someone who understands or who should be involved in national security decisions, even though, as you say, she is "A PERSON".



You keep confusing Ivanka and Melania throughout this conversation.

No, I know who each one of them is. I'm not even the first person who brought up Ivanka in this thread.



I said Ivanka was just a pretty face and had no impact on diplomacy other than being diplomatic at a diplomatic party to open an embassy, it's not like she made the decision to move the embassy.

She's not just a "pretty face" (though I think she's got a beautiful face), she is an official advisor to the POTUS, but without the background or training needed to do so, on matters outside of fashion and possibly real estate.



Now you are just making things up.

Really? Who did you vote for in 2008?

(Just as an aside, I said you were the type of person who'd vote for Palin for VP, who didn't even know what The Fed was, not that you actually did, although I certainly wouldn't be surprised.)







You keep reducing her to nothing but a fashion model

It's the only job she ever had.

[Swordsmyth]

Melania didn't just "give advice" on who is trustworthy. She called for the firing of the Deputy National Security Adviser, and used her power as FLOTUS to make it happen. This is not someone who understands or who should be involved in national security decisions, even though, as you say, she is "A PERSON".
She doesn't have any power as FLOTUS and she probably does understand things like who is a treacherous backstabber.




Really? Who did you vote for in 2008?

(Just as an aside, I said you were the type of person who'd vote for Palin for VP, who didn't even know what The Fed was, not that you actually did, although I certainly wouldn't be surprised.)
I voted for Ron Paul, I'd kill myself before I'd ever vote for McCain.








It's the only job she ever had.
But it's not all she is.

[RJ Liberty]

She doesn't have any power as FLOTUS

She has a chief of staff, a social secretary, a press secretary, a special assistant, etc. No one who has a press secretary at the White House is without power.



I voted for Ron Paul, I'd kill myself before I'd ever vote for McCain.

And yet, here you are, defending Orange Cheetoh and his inappropriately elevated family; the same guy who disrespected Ron Paul, calling him a "clown-like' candidate, and lying about his poll numbers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz-zZdiWqr0). We alllll remember this.



But it's not all she is.

It's all she ever did, and it's why she's not qualified to alter the dynamics of our national security team.

I'm sure she did great in Runway Walking 101.

[Swordsmyth]

She has a chief of staff, a social secretary, a press secretary, a special assistant, etc. No one who has a press secretary at the White House is without power.
You are confusing power with influence, she had no power to fire Ricardel.




And yet, here you are, defending Orange Cheetoh and his inappropriately elevated family; the same guy who disrespected Ron Paul, calling him a "clown-like' candidate, and lying about his poll numbers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz-zZdiWqr0). We alllll remember this.
I defend him when he does good things, firing Ricardel is a good thing.




It's all she ever did, and it's why she's not qualified to alter the dynamics of our national security team.
She is qualified to express an opinion about a backstabbing snake.

[Origanalist]

She has a chief of staff, a social secretary, a press secretary, a special assistant, etc. No one who has a press secretary at the White House is without power.



And yet, here you are, defending Orange Cheetoh and his inappropriately elevated family; the same guy who disrespected Ron Paul, calling him a "clown-like' candidate, and lying about his poll numbers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz-zZdiWqr0). We alllll remember this.



It's all she ever did, and it's why she's not qualified to alter the dynamics of our national security team.

I'm sure she did great in Runway Walking 101.

Dude, you're arguing with a true believer. You might as as well be trying to convince a devout Catholic the Pope is fallible.

[Swordsmyth]

Dude, you're arguing with a true believer. You might as as well be trying to convince a devout Catholic the Pope is fallible.
I believe Trump does many wrong things, I have even been the first to post many of them, this isn't one of them.

[RJ Liberty]

You are confusing power with influence, she had no power to fire Ricardel.

Influence comes from power. Without her power to call for the firing of Ricardel, amplified by her own office and media people, no one would know she had called for Ricardel's firing. But they did.



I defend him when he does good things, firing Ricardel is a good thing.

How is Melania Trump using the power of her office to get people fired good for the country? Does it make anyone more safe? Does it help the regular folks in Utah or California?



She is qualified to express an opinion about a backstabbing snake.

And not qualified to be using her office to advise the POTUS on matters of national security.

[Origanalist]

I believe Trump does many wrong things, I have even been the first to post many of them, this isn't one of them.

I believe you have (slowly) learned to modify your activity to reduce criticism.

[Swordsmyth]

Influence comes from power. Without her power to call for the firing of Ricardel, amplified by her own office and media people, no one would know she had called for Ricardel's firing. But they did.
You are stretching a point.




How is Melania Trump using the power of her office to get people fired good for the country? Does it make anyone more safe? Does it help the regular folks in Utah or California?
Yes, one less Bolton crony is advising Trump and undermining Bolton's enemies, that could very well save lives foreign and domestic.




And not qualified to be using her office to advise the POTUS on matters of national security.
Which isn't what she did.

That would require her to do something like call for a missile strike on Iran.

[Swordsmyth]

I believe you have (slowly) learned to modify your activity to reduce criticism.
I used to be more critical of Trump before he exceeded my expectations.

[RJ Liberty]

Dude, you're arguing with a true believer. You might as as well be trying to convince a devout Catholic the Pope is fallible.

Nah, I know. SS says he voted for Ron Paul in '08, but it's just so hard to believe. He's defending Trump actions no Constitutionalist would be defending: Trump's family getting involved officially in matters of foreign policy and national defense? It's totally outside what the Constitution calls for, in terms of appointing officials.

[Swordsmyth]

Nah, I know. SS says he voted for Ron Paul in '08, but it's just so hard to believe. He's defending Trump actions no Constitutionalist would be defending: Trump's family getting involved officially in matters of foreign policy and national defense? It's totally outside what the Constitution calls for, in terms of appointing officials.
What Constitution are you reading?
My copy doesn't say anything about appointing family members one way or the other.

[RJ Liberty]

What Constitution are you reading?
My copy doesn't say anything about appointing family members one way or the other.

The 14th Amendment guarantees equality; you don't believe, do you, that Ivanka Trump gain her position as official advisor to the President of the United States through her strong resume of previously working for a little while in real estate, and opening her line of perfumes at select Macy's? Why would she be chosen to open an embassy over someone actually trained in diplomacy? It's because of who her father is, not because of her mad embassy-opening skillz.

[Origanalist]

The 14th Amendment guarantees equality; you don't believe, do you, that Ivanka Trump gain her position as official advisor to the President of the United States through her strong resume of previously working for a little while in real estate, and opening her line of perfumes at select Macy's? Why would she be chosen to open an embassy over someone actually trained in diplomacy? It's because of who her father is, not because of her mad embassy-opening skillz.

Well, her daddy is quite the ribbon cutter, it runs in the family.

[Swordsmyth]

The 14th Amendment guarantees equality; you don't believe, do you, that Ivanka Trump gain her position as official advisor to the President of the United States through her strong resume of previously working for a little while in real estate, and opening her line of perfumes at select Macy's? Why would she be chosen to open an embassy over someone actually trained in diplomacy? It's because of who her father is, not because of her mad embassy-opening skillz.
I see you believe in a "living" constitution.

The 14thA says nothing about appointing family members:

Article XIV (Amendment 14 - Rights Guaranteed: Privileges and Immunities of Citizenship, Due Process, and Equal Protection)1: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
2: Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age,15 (http://constitutionus.com/#n15) and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State. affects 2 (http://constitutionus.com/#n2)
3: No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
4: The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
5: The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article. ratified #14 (http://constitutionus.com/#r14)




WHERE DOES IT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT APPOINTING FAMILY MEMBERS OR EVEN ABOUT APPOINTMENTS AT ALL?

[RJ Liberty]

5: The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article. ratified #14 (http://constitutionus.com/#r14)


WHERE DOES IT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT APPOINTING FAMILY MEMBERS OR EVEN ABOUT APPOINTMENTS AT ALL?

I didn't think you'd actually defend government nepotism, but you actually are. Wow.

Your answer is in #5. "The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article."

Federal law, 5 U.S.C. § 3110, prohibits a federal official from appointing, promoting, or recommending for appointment or promotion any relative of the official to any agency or department over which the official exercises authority or control.

[Swordsmyth]

I didn't think you'd actually defend government nepotism, but you actually are. Wow.
I'm not necessarily defending it, I don't like Ivanka at all but FLOTUS isn't an appointed position and appointing family member ISN'T "unconstitutional" as you claimed.



Your answer is in #5. "The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article."
What provision of the 14thA ("THIS ARTICLE") prohibits appointing family members? NONE




Federal law, 5 U.S.C. § 3110, prohibits a federal official from appointing, promoting, or recommending for appointment or promotion any relative of the official to any agency or department over which the official exercises authority or control.
That isn't the Constitution, if that law applies to the President and not just lower officials then you can claim it is illegal and you should write to the Demoncrats in Congress about it so that we can force Ivanka and her hubby out of the WH.

[RJ Liberty]

I'm not necessarily defending it,

You've just spent hours defending nepotism.



What provision of the 14thA ("THIS ARTICLE") prohibits appointing family members?

The part that says we will be treated equally ("equal protection"). Ivanka Trump's resume doesn't qualify her for the job she has, as you well know. She wouldn't have the position she has without being treated more equally.

[Swordsmyth]

You've just spent hours defending nepotism.
:rolleyes:
I've just spent hours explaining that it isn't unconstitutional and debating specific issues not defending nepotism in general.




The part that says we will be treated equally ("equal protection"). Ivanka Trump's resume doesn't qualify her for the job she has, as you well know. She wouldn't have the position she has without being treated more equally.
That is utter nonsense, that isn't what equal protection of the law means.
You don't get to make armchair subjective judgements and claim that because you disagree with Trump about an appointee it means the appointment is unconstitutional.

ETA: THIS is the only part that even mentions "equal treatment":


nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
She isn't being allowed to commit crimes without punishment (or if she is it isn't what we are talking about).

[RJ Liberty]

That is utter nonsense, that isn't what equal protection of the law means.
You don't get to make armchair subjective judgements

I didn't. The Supreme Court did.

[Swordsmyth]

I didn't. The Supreme Court did.
Oh?

Where?

Where did they claim that "equal protection of the law" meant what you claim it does?

[RJ Liberty]

Well, her daddy is quite the ribbon cutter, it runs in the family.
If we were just talking ribbon-cutting, Ivanka just serving as a pretty model with scissors, that would be one thing. We all know that's not the case, as the Trumps freely admit.

[Swordsmyth]

I didn't. The Supreme Court did.

I don't believe you, even SCOTUS isn't that out of touch with reality.
Yours is the most bizarre open ended interpretation of "equal treatment under the law" I have ever heard, you could just as easily say that it required socialism to make my life equal to a rich man's.