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Brian4Liberty
11-13-2018, 12:24 PM
Consider this anomaly. Close elections and recounts often have a lot of controversy surrounding newly found ballots, absentee ballots, provisional ballots, various uncounted ballots and very long timeframes to count and recount. But the vast majority of elections are settled when one candidate concedes, often on the night of the election. Are all of the votes really counted in those cases?

How many times has a candidate conceded, only to be told weeks later, “we finally finished counting, and you really won”? Never? Any examples?

The point is that through selective counting on the night of the election, the results could easily be skewed enough to convince one of the candidates to concede, thus ending the counting. How can it be that most elections are decided in a few hours after the polls close, yet when there is controversy, it takes weeks to count all of the various ballots?



———

[Edit] Another avenue for systemic fraud:


And then there is the potential for fraud that comes from non-voted races or propositions. For example, a voter doesn’t like either candidate, and leaves it blank. That leaves the door wide open for ballot workers to fill it in for the voter.

Even better when the decision is made to eliminate “none of the above” and write-in options from the ballot. It increases the odds that voters will leave items completely blank, and open to fraud.

[Edit 2] Mail-in ballots:


I forgot mail-in ballots. As someone on TV mentioned today, people who open mail-in ballots have plenty of opportunity to either fill-in contests that were left empty, or damage ballots that will then need to be manually “copied”.

nobody's_hero
11-13-2018, 12:38 PM
In Georgia, Dougherty County, liberal stronghold.

In Florida, Broward County, liberal stronghold.

CaptUSA
11-13-2018, 12:42 PM
I gotta say, the more people who "lose faith in the process", the better.

Jamesiv1
11-13-2018, 12:42 PM
Who casts the votes means nothing.
Who counts the votes means everything.

oyarde
11-13-2018, 12:44 PM
If your state touches a major body of water and there is a close election you may assume democrat voter fraud and be correct a minimum of the 90 to 99.9 percentile ea time .

CCTelander
11-13-2018, 01:08 PM
I gotta say, the more people who "lose faith in the process", the better.


^^^^This^^^^

May more and more people recognize what a sham the whole system is and has always been.

As far as vote/election fraud goes, it has a very long and colorful history here in the US. It's highly doubtful that there have ever been many elections of any import that weren't tainted by such fraud to one degree or another. And, contrary to the popular fantasy around here lately, it has never been restricted to one "side" or the other.

CaptUSA
11-13-2018, 01:35 PM
...contrary to the popular fantasy around here lately, it has never been restricted to one "side" or the other.

Men who seek power have no scruples. To expect anything more of them is to misunderstand their nature.

CCTelander
11-13-2018, 01:44 PM
Men who seek power have no scruples. To expect anything more of them is to misunderstand their nature.


More true words were never posted. I'd +rep you again if I could.

Swordsmyth
11-13-2018, 03:29 PM
Consider this anomaly. Close elections and recounts often have a lot of controversy surrounding newly found ballots, absentee ballots, provisional ballots, various uncounted ballots and very long timeframes to count and recount. But the vast majority of elections are settled when one candidate concedes, often on the night of the election. Are all of the votes really counted in those cases?

How many times has a candidate conceded, only to be told weeks later, “we finally finished counting, and you really won”? Never? Any examples?

The point is that through selective counting on the night of the election, the results could easily be skewed enough to convince one of the candidates to concede, thus ending the counting. How can it be that most elections are decided in a few hours after the polls close, yet when there is controversy, it takes weeks to count all of the various ballots?
Concessions shouldn't be legal, voter ID should be required, all counting and processing of ballots should have to take place in front of many witnesses, any ballot irregularities should disqualify the ballot completely and we should consider banning absentee ballots.

Swordsmyth
11-13-2018, 03:30 PM
contrary to the popular fantasy around here lately, it has never been restricted to one "side" or the other.
Undoubtedly, but one side engages in far more of it than the other and is allowed to benefit from it far more, the oligarchs do have a preferred direction for things to go.

Swordsmyth
11-13-2018, 03:33 PM
Anarchy doesn't last and aristocracy doesn't respect the rights of the people, voting in a republic is the worst system imaginable......Except for all the others.

timosman
11-13-2018, 03:50 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaRcFRdE0fk

CCTelander
11-13-2018, 05:52 PM
Undoubtedly, but one side engages in far more of it than the other and is allowed to benefit from it far more, the oligarchs do have a preferred direction for thing to go.


I'd agree that the Dems are usually more crude and obvious about it. However, to believe that they engage in such fraud to any significantly greater degree than do Republicans is dangerously naive. You need to be on guard against all of the sociopaths, not just the ones you hate the most.

asurfaholic
11-13-2018, 06:03 PM
I don’t believe in red vs blue like some of y’all.

It’s clearly an in vs out big tent and any fraud is designed to put the “in crowd” in.

Swordsmyth
11-13-2018, 06:34 PM
Big League Politics has obtained a photo showing four ballots with the exact same voter identifier in Alameda County, California.
All four ballots say Count: 421, VBMP (Vote-by-mail-ballot) 164325, Extract 15. They are also labeled as “official ballots” for the general election in Alameda County for election day, Nov. 6 2018.
Vice President and co-founder of Election Integrity Project California (EIPCa) Ruth Weiss examined the photo depicting the mail in ballots.
“It does seem odd to me that the identifier on the left-hand side of the envelope is the same. That would imply not that this voter is registered four different times but that somehow four identical ballots were printed for a single voter. That would suggest a glitch with the vendor,” she told Big League Politics.


James Bradley, a U.S. Senate candidate from California told Big League Politics that the state has passed a law allowing for mail-in and provisional ballots to be machine counted. Previously, the signatures on such ballots had to be individually verified in order for the ballots to be counted. Since the safeguard of signature verification was nullified, Democratic mail-ins and provisionals have vastly increased, according to Bradley.

Thus, it is entirely possible that all four of these ballots were mailed in, run through a machine, and counted.
LOOK:
https://bigleaguepolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/unnamed-1-1.jpg

https://bigleaguepolitics.com/photo-four-identical-mail-in-ballots-pictured-in-california/

Brian4Liberty
11-13-2018, 07:00 PM
Big League Politics has obtained a photo showing four ballots with the exact same voter identifier in Alameda County, California.
All four ballots say Count: 421, VBMP (Vote-by-mail-ballot) 164325, Extract 15. They are also labeled as “official ballots” for the general election in Alameda County for election day, Nov. 6 2018.
Vice President and co-founder of Election Integrity Project California (EIPCa) Ruth Weiss examined the photo depicting the mail in ballots.
“It does seem odd to me that the identifier on the left-hand side of the envelope is the same. That would imply not that this voter is registered four different times but that somehow four identical ballots were printed for a single voter. That would suggest a glitch with the vendor,” she told Big League Politics.


James Bradley, a U.S. Senate candidate from California told Big League Politics that the state has passed a law allowing for mail-in and provisional ballots to be machine counted. Previously, the signatures on such ballots had to be individually verified in order for the ballots to be counted. Since the safeguard of signature verification was nullified, Democratic mail-ins and provisionals have vastly increased, according to Bradley.

Thus, it is entirely possible that all four of these ballots were mailed in, run through a machine, and counted.
LOOK:
https://bigleaguepolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/unnamed-1-1.jpg

https://bigleaguepolitics.com/photo-four-identical-mail-in-ballots-pictured-in-california/

Not to rain on anybody’s parade, but each voter in California will have multiple stubs like that depending upon how many items they have to vote on and how many pages it takes. Each page has it’s own stub on the top. IIRC, the right side of the stub will have something like A, B, C, D, etc. That part of the stub is not visible in the picture.

kpitcher
11-13-2018, 08:00 PM
Concessions shouldn't be legal, voter ID should be required, all counting and processing of ballots should have to take place in front of many witnesses, any ballot irregularities should disqualify the ballot completely and we should consider banning absentee ballots.


Put voting on the blockchain. Every legal registered voter would get a unique private key. This private key could confirm how they voted as it is recorded in the blockchain, time stamped so it can never be changed. Easy to get vote totals also.

There have been many papers written on this. It's very doable.

Zippyjuan
11-13-2018, 08:01 PM
Not to rain on anybody’s parade, but each voter in California will have multiple stubs like that depending upon how many items they have to vote on and how many pages it takes. Each page has it’s own stub on the top. IIRC, the right side of the stub will have something like A, B, C, D, etc. That part of the stub is not visible in the picture.

With all the proposed ballot amendments and people to vote on, our ballot did run four sheets this time.

Swordsmyth
11-13-2018, 08:03 PM
Put voting on the blockchain. Every legal registered voter would get a unique private key. This private key could confirm how they voted as it is recorded in the blockchain, time stamped so it can never be changed. Easy to get vote totals also.

There have been many papers written on this. It's very doable.

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/voting_software.png

kpitcher
11-14-2018, 10:37 AM
https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/voting_software.png

Sure, I'll admit that's amusing, who doesn't like XKCD. However we have had public/private key systems (Which is basically what blockchain is, along with an open time stamped database) protecting web services for a few decades, global banking relies on it, forex relies on it with their trillions a day in transactions. If we can secure the financial markets we can secure some votes.

dannno
11-14-2018, 11:21 AM
https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/voting_software.png

There would be a vast improvement in electronic voting reliability if it was all open source, and it has a few benefits over paper ballots if done right. Paper ballots do have the benefit that you can plainly see it, but they also have a few disadvantages.

With open source anybody with the ability, which is a lot of people on both sides, would be able to verify how it all works and that there is no vote flipping or anything like that happening. The vote would be tied to a verifiable identity, and that identity could go back and review their votes to ensure they were counted properly.

Brian4Liberty
11-14-2018, 11:39 AM
And then there is the potential for fraud that comes from non-voted races or propositions. For example, a voter doesn’t like either candidate, and leaves it blank. That leaves the door wide open for ballot workers to fill it in for the voter.

Even better when the decision is made to eliminate “none of the above” and write-in options from the ballot. It increases the odds that voters will leave items completely blank, and open to fraud.

AuH20
11-14-2018, 11:55 AM
Why do all the urban centers wait until the very end to submit their count? Maybe because they are tabulating how many they need to win?

timosman
11-14-2018, 11:55 AM
And then there is the potential for fraud that comes from non-voted races or propositions. For example, a voter doesn’t like either candidate, and leaves it blank. That leaves the door wide open for ballot workers to fill it in for the voter.

Even better when the decision is made to eliminate “none of the above” and write-in options from the ballot. It increases the odds that voters will leave items completely blank, and open to fraud.

gives a new meaning to 'use it or lose it' :D

AuH20
11-14-2018, 11:56 AM
I don’t believe in red vs blue like some of y’all.

It’s clearly an in vs out big tent and any fraud is designed to put the “in crowd” in.


'Red vs blue' is about placing red between blue as a buffer, but often that doesn't even work out.

Brian4Liberty
11-14-2018, 12:01 PM
Why do all the urban centers wait until the very end to submit their count? Maybe because they are tabulating how many they need to win?

Just like they do in Congress on critical votes.

nobody's_hero
11-14-2018, 01:30 PM
And then there is the potential for fraud that comes from non-voted races or propositions. For example, a voter doesn’t like either candidate, and leaves it blank. That leaves the door wide open for ballot workers to fill it in for the voter.

Even better when the decision is made to eliminate “none of the above” and write-in options from the ballot. It increases the odds that voters will leave items completely blank, and open to fraud.

I hadn't considered that opening.

Brian4Liberty
11-14-2018, 08:14 PM
Consider this anomaly. Close elections and recounts often have a lot of controversy surrounding newly found ballots, absentee ballots, provisional ballots, various uncounted ballots...

I forgot mail-in ballots. As someone on TV mentioned today, people who open mail-in ballots have plenty of opportunity to either fill-in contests that were left empty, or damage ballots that will then need to be manually “copied”.

Swordsmyth
11-15-2018, 09:23 PM
“The Department of Justice must move under the Voting Rights Act to do a full investigation of what happened, not only in Florida … but [on] what happened in Arizona,” said host Laura Ingraham on “The Laura Ingraham Show” on Wednesday morning.
She summarized the “bizarre scenario” that unfolded in Arizona, in which the governor was elected handily by double digits, yet at the 11th hour the Republican senatorial candidate, Martha McSally, lost by a razor-thin margin to one of the most left-wing senatorial candidates in the state’s history, Kyrsten Sinema.

As a case in point, Ingraham revealed that Martha McSally’s team told her over the weekend that “ballot collection” had taken place during Arizona’s election.


The practice, which is now outlawed in the state, involves traveling to places such as retirement homes to gather up unmailed ballots to have them counted.
Despite that, McSally conceded to Sinema on Twitter on Monday evening (https://www.lifezette.com/2018/11/mcsally-concedes-to-sinema-following-recount/?utm_source=right-rail-latest).


More at: https://www.lifezette.com/2018/11/gingrich-slams-democrats-for-their-long-tradition-of-stealing-elections/

fcreature
11-16-2018, 12:33 PM
I have no doubt voter fraud is rampant, particularly with Democrats. This midterm has made it more clear than ever. The antics in Florida are especially disgusting.

This isn't hard folks... voters should receive a receipt for their ballots with an anonymized token ID from which they can instantly verify on a public website that their ballots were correctly recorded. From there we would have indepent third party watch groups form that could statistically verify the results of every election simply by having people check their own results.

If we stick to paper ballots, any ballot that is not properly filled out should not be eligible to be counted in any scenario what-so-ever. If you are too stupid to fill out your ballot, your vote shouldn't count. While we're on the subject, each section should have to be filled out or be considered invalid. A "none of the above" option would work too fine. It's too easy for poll workers to fill in empty sections with the candidates of their own choice.

You should absolutely have to verify your citizenship status to vote. This should be the case everywhere.

Voting rolls should automatically be scrubbed over time. Upon issuance of a death certificate, that person should be removed from all voting rolls automatically.

Absentee / mail-in ballots should not be legal. They are too easy to manipulate. Hell, voting should take place on a single day. If you can't figure out how to make it to your voting place on time and wait a little while if need be, then don't vote.

Vote counts / tallys should have to be reported on election night by a specific time. If not, your county doesn't get to contribute in the election. With consequences like that mistakes will not happen often. It's too easy right now for counties to lag their results so they know how many votes they need to steal a race. If vote totals are submitted prior to the official counts then at least you can't make up ballots out of thin air to meet the difference you might need to win a race.

We've gone wrong by thinking that voting should be easy. Voting shouldn't be easy. That's not to say it should be made to be so difficult that people can't do it. But the easier it is to vote, the more likely there is fraud happening. I don't see anything wrong with people having to put a little bit of effort in to cast a vote.

Swordsmyth
11-17-2018, 01:20 AM
The Democrat Stacey Abrams campaign is legally agitating for a whole new vote in Georgia, as Republican winner Brian Kemp performs the daily duties of the governor-elect in transition.
Gwinnett County — a focus of the Abrams legal team’s efforts — finally certified its vote Thursday night during a divisive session at the election board, which prompted the police to be called.
Abrams trails far behind Kemp in the vote count, but the Hillary Clinton prototype (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hillary-clinton-abrams-would-have-already-won-georgia-race-if-she-had-a-fair-election) is hiring lawyers to stretch out their increasingly inane lawsuit strategy to get more rejected ballots onto the record. (READ: Fulton County Numbers Show Non-Citizens and Non-Registered Persons Voting). (https://bigleaguepolitics.com/bombshell-fulton-county-numbers-show-massive-duplicate-ballots-rejected-ballots-non-citizens-trying-to-vote/)
The Associated Press reports on the last-ditch Abrams effort with their headline: “Stacey Abrams’ team prepares push for new vote.” (https://www.dailyindependent.com/cnhi_network/only-on-ap-stacey-abrams-team-prepares-push-for-new/article_9e4c3d8f-7639-5602-b5fe-5be4c2e36f99.html)


More at: https://bigleaguepolitics.com/sad-stacey-abrams-actually-wants-georgia-to-vote-again/