PayPal shuts down accounts for Proud Boys and founder McInnes as well as antifa groups

[Swordsmyth]

PayPal (https://crunchbase.com/organization/paypal) has shut down several accounts, including those for far-right group the Proud Boys and their founder, Gavin McInnes, for the promotion of “hate, violence, or other forms of intolerance.” Several anti-fascist groups were also banned as part of the same wave of policy enforcement.
PayPal confirmed the bans to TechCrunch, which were first reported by BuzzFeed News (https://twitter.com/blakersdozen/status/1060967090264334336).

More at: https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/09/paypal-shuts-down-accounts-for-proud-boys-and-founder-mcinnes-as-well-as-antifa-groups/

[TheCount]

Womp womp

[donnay]

Womp womp

You think tyranny is a joke? SMH

[Grandmastersexsay]

I doubt soros uses PayPal. Antifa will be fine.

[Grandmastersexsay]

You think tyranny is a joke? SMH

Since PayPal is a private company and not a government, it is by definition, impossible for them to be tyrannical.

[jkr]

Another brick in the FACE

[donnay]

I doubt soros uses PayPal. Antifa will be fine.

Tyranny always has a back door for control.

https://www.businessinsider.com/george-soros-has-made-a-big-bet-on-paypal-2015-11

http://politicalavengernews.com/index.php/2018/09/24/soros-now-owns-paypal/

[r3volution 3.0]

Since PayPal is a private company and not a government, it is by definition, impossible for them to be tyrannical.

That would be an irrefutable argument on a libertarian forum (but this, I regret to inform you, isn't that [anymore]).

[angelatc]

Paypal has been dickish for a decade. This isn't anything new.

[donnay]

That would be an irrefutable argument on a libertarian forum (but this, I regret to inform you, isn't that [anymore]).

It still is a libertarian stance, of course that is if it were a truly free market. Sadly it isn't and the tech giants do whatever they damn well please. Tech Tyranny is REAL.

[r3volution 3.0]

It still is a libertarian stance, of course that is if it were a truly free market. Sadly it isn't and the tech giants do whatever they damn well please. Tech Tyranny is REAL.

https://i.chzbgr.com/full/3037977344/h829106C7/

[donnay]

https://i.chzbgr.com/full/3037977344/h829106C7/

Quote George W. Bush means?

[Swordsmyth]

https://i.chzbgr.com/full/3037977344/h829106C7/
Please point out where she calls for government intervention.

You and the other trolls always try to silence criticism with this kind of nonsense.

[r3volution 3.0]

Quote George W. Bush means?

...that you're espousing a similar view.

"Well, yea, the free market's great in theory, PayPal should be allowed to deny service to people in theory, but [insert call for state intervention]."

[spudea]

That would be an irrefutable argument on a libertarian forum (but this, I regret to inform you, isn't that [anymore]).

Libertarian forum? How did this come about? Where is that in the mission statement or site info? Ron Paul republican, Rand Paul republican, Mike Lee republican etc.

Regardless, companies silencing opposition to socialism and communism should worry us all.

[Swordsmyth]

...that you're espousing a similar view.

"Well, yea, the free market's great in theory, PayPal should be allowed to deny service to people in theory, but [insert call for state intervention]."

Please cite said call for state intervention.

[CCTelander]

It still is a libertarian stance, of course that is if it were a truly free market. Sadly it isn't and the tech giants do whatever they damn well please. Tech Tyranny is REAL.


And what would you propose as a solution?

[r3volution 3.0]

Please cite said call for state intervention.

Since she calls this tyranny, and rejects the libertarian argument in favor of discrimination, what else could she want?

In previous threads, you people have called for the state to penalize Facebook for deleting "conservative" content.

I see no reason to assume you would draw the line here.

[Swordsmyth]

Since she calls this tyranny, and rejects the libertarian argument in favor of discrimination, what else could she want?

In previous threads, you people have called for the state to penalize Facebook for deleting "conservative" content.

I see no reason to assume you would draw the line here.
So you admit you are just making things up to protect the tyrannical left from criticism?

[r3volution 3.0]

So you admit you are just making things up to protect the tyrannical left from criticism?

LOL, let's see what she says.

If she says that she supports PayPal's right to discriminate, then I'll admit I jumped the gun (not at all unreasonably).

If she wants the government to "do something" to prevent this "tyranny," then I'll have been correct.

In the meantime, tell me, do you support PayPal's right to discriminate?

[donnay]

...that you're espousing a similar view.

"Well, yea, the free market's great in theory, PayPal should be allowed to deny service to people in theory, but [insert call for state intervention]."

LOL! That is your interpretation of what I said--We do not have a free market. Paypal is run by shareholders that control--as per the article above with regards to Soros intentions. You sign a contract with them, if you did not break the TOS then they cannot arbitrarily cancel your account just because they feel like it. They have done this to many people already. In essence, they are trying to cut off the way anyone can do commerce.

[Swordsmyth]

LOL, let's see what she says.

If she says that she supports PayPal's right to discriminate, then I'll admit I jumped the gun (not at all unreasonably).

If she wants the government to "do something" to prevent this "tyranny," then I'll have been correct.

In the meantime, tell me, do you support PayPal's right to discriminate?
It depends on their contract and whether or not they are a government sock-puppet, I don't know enough about Paypal to say for sure.

[donnay]

And what would you propose as a solution?

A truly free market with no government controls, with exception of Judicial branch.

[r3volution 3.0]

LOL! That is your interpretation of what I said--We do not have a free market. Paypal is run by shareholders that control--as per the article above with regards to Soros intentions. You sign a contract with them, if you did not break the TOS then they cannot arbitrarily cancel your account just because they feel like it. They have done this to many people already. In essence, they are trying to cut off the way anyone can do commerce.

So you're claiming that PayPal violated its contract with "Proud Boys"?

If so, show me the provision of the PayPal TOS which you think they violated.

[donnay]

So you're claiming that PayPal violated its contract with "Proud Boys"?

If so, show me the provision of the PayPal TOS which you think they violated.

Let's just say there is big doings going to happen soon with lawsuits for breach of contracts.

[r3volution 3.0]

Let's just say there is big doings going to happen soon with lawsuits for breach of contracts.

Or we could say that you're hoping they violated their TOS but you have no evidence at all that they did.

You might consider this language from the contract, under Actions We Make Take:


If we believe that you’ve engaged in any of these activities, we may take a number of actions to protect PayPal, its customers and others at any time in our sole discretion. The actions we make take include, but are not limited to, the following:


Terminate this user agreement and/or close or suspend your PayPal account, and we may refuse to provide the PayPal services to you in the future.



Within "these activities" referenced is any breach of the Acceptable Use Policy, which prohibits, among other things:


transactions involving...(f) the promotion of hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory

But but but, in your opinion, Proud Boys didn't promote intolerance, etc.

But your opinion doesn't matter:


If we believe that you’ve engaged in any of these activities, we may take a number of actions to protect PayPal, its customers and others at any time in our sole discretion.

PayPal, like Facebook and pretty much every other online enterprise, reserves the right to stop doing business with whomever they please.


...


All that aside, suppose that PayPal isn't in breach of their TOS; what then do you want to happen?

Should the government do something to prevent this "tyranny"?

[donnay]

Or we could say that you're hoping they violated their TOS but you have no evidence at all that they did.

You might consider this language from the contract, under Actions We Make Take:



Within "these activities" referenced is any breach of the Acceptable Use Policy, which prohibits, among other things:



But but but, in your opinion, Proud Boys didn't promote intolerance, etc.

But your opinion doesn't matter:



PayPal, like Facebook and pretty much every other online enterprise, reserves the right to stop doing business with whomever they please.


...


All that aside, suppose that PayPal isn't in breach of their TOS; what then do you want to happen?

Should the government do something to prevent this "tyranny"?

What intolerance did Proud Boy's and McInnis do?

When people are trying to make a living and there is very limited ways to get paid for services, they have more people by the balls with this tyranny. Of course that is the agenda.

These are just a few who have been hit with this tyranny but they will not stop unless we stop them. Wait until the Banks catch on...

[r3volution 3.0]

What intolerance did Proud Boy's and McInnis do?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proud_Boys

But PayPal's TOS give them sole discretion to determine whether a violation occurred, as I explained, so it really doesn't matter.


When people are trying to make a living and there is very limited ways to get paid for services, they have more people by the balls with this tyranny. Of course that is the agenda.

These are just a few who have been hit with this tyranny but they will not stop unless we stop them. Wait until the Banks catch on...

Like how?

[donnay]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proud_Boys

But PayPal's TOS give them sole discretion to determine whether a violation occurred, as I explained, so it really doesn't matter.



Like how?

The Wikipedia page about the Proud Boys is all SPLC demonization and a pack of lies. Gavin McInnis did not start it.

For now, as it stands, there are Anti-trust laws in place and they need to be used.

[r3volution 3.0]

The Wikipedia page about the Proud Boys is all SPLC demonization and a pack of lies. Gavin McInnis did not start it.

I don't care to debate the obvious (i.e. that the Proud Boys are a white nationalist outfit), nor, once again, does it matter vis a vis PayPal.


For now, as it stands, there are Anti-trust laws in place and they need to be used.

Ding ding ding


Please cite said call for state intervention.

[donnay]

I don't care to debate the obvious (i.e. that the Proud Boys are a white nationalist outfit), nor, once again, does it matter vis a vis PayPal.



Ding ding ding


LOL!!! You're incredibly sottish.

I am off to watch a good old movie --goodnight.

[RJ Liberty]

I don't care to debate the obvious (i.e. that the Proud Boys are a white nationalist outfit), nor, once again, does it matter vis a vis PayPal.



Ding ding ding

Yep. It's clear, now, that donnay has called for government intervention to stop PayPal from doing business with whomever they want ("For now, as it stands, there are Anti-trust laws in place and they need to be used.") This is not a libertarian POV.

[enhanced_deficit]

PayPal (https://crunchbase.com/organization/paypal) has shut down several accounts, including those for far-right group the Proud Boys and their founder, Gavin McInnes, for the promotion of “hate, violence, or other forms of intolerance.” Several anti-fascist groups were also banned as part of the same wave of policy enforcement.
PayPal confirmed the bans to TechCrunch, which were first reported by BuzzFeed News (https://twitter.com/blakersdozen/status/1060967090264334336).

More at: https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/09/paypal-shuts-down-accounts-for-proud-boys-and-founder-mcinnes-as-well-as-antifa-groups/


There were widely circulated reports that suspected terrorist who carried out PA Synagogue shooting was linked to this group online/via GAB. Paypal had banned GAB for allowing such antisemitic content, is it surprising that they are sanctioning other groups with such views?
Trump himself had called for death penalty for PA shooter and had expressed openness to cooperations with Dems to regulate free speech on internet. Do you disagree with stances of Trump and his paypal founder donor on these issues?


PayPal billionaire Peter Thiel 'becoming key Donald Trump adviser'
PayPal founder's employees reportedly refer to him as 'the shadow president'
Sunday 26 February 2017


https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/5989f2441400002000ecfc18.jpeg?ops=scalefit_720_nou pscale


Trump called Peduto, wanted to talk death penalty after synagogue shooting, Peduto says
Nov 5, 2018
http://www.post-gazette.com/local/ci...s/201811050141 (http://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2018/11/05/Donald-Trump-Bill-Peduto-phone-call-synagogue-shooting-death-penalty/stories/201811050141)





Paypal bans Gab following Pittsburgh shooting - The Verge
Oct 27, 2018 - Earlier today, a gunman walked into the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and killed eleven people before being apprehended by police. The suspect has since been identified as 46-year-old Robert Bowers, who appears to have had a history of anti-Semitic speech on ...

Robert Bowers considered Gavin McInnes 'Proud Boys' fellow ...
Oct 28, 2018 -



Some of the anti-semitic tweets that led to paypal bans:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?527815-Pittsburgh-synagogue-shooting-thread&p=6699252&viewfull=1#post6699252







You think tyranny is a joke? SMH

If this premise is valid, MAGA is being funded by tyrants?

[donnay]

There were widely circulated reports that suspected terrorist who carried out PA Synagogue shooting was linked to this group online/via GAB. Paypal had banned GAB for allowing such antisemitic content, is it surprising that they are sanctioning other groups with such views?
Trump himself had called for death penalty for PA shooter and had expressed openness to cooperations with Dems to regulate free speech on internet. Do you disagree with stances of Trump and his paypal founder donor on these issues?


PayPal billionaire Peter Thiel 'becoming key Donald Trump adviser'
PayPal founder's employees reportedly refer to him as 'the shadow president'
Sunday 26 February 2017


https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/5989f2441400002000ecfc18.jpeg?ops=scalefit_720_nou pscale


Trump called Peduto, wanted to talk death penalty after synagogue shooting, Peduto says
Nov 5, 2018
http://www.post-gazette.com/local/ci...s/201811050141 (http://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2018/11/05/Donald-Trump-Bill-Peduto-phone-call-synagogue-shooting-death-penalty/stories/201811050141)





Paypal bans Gab following Pittsburgh shooting - The Verge
Oct 27, 2018 - Earlier today, a gunman walked into the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and killed eleven people before being apprehended by police. The suspect has since been identified as 46-year-old Robert Bowers, who appears to have had a history of anti-Semitic speech on ...

Robert Bowers considered Gavin McInnes 'Proud Boys' fellow ...
Oct 28, 2018 -



Some of the anti-semitic tweets that led to paypal bans:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?527815-Pittsburgh-synagogue-shooting-thread&p=6699252&viewfull=1#post6699252








If this premise is valid, MAGA is being funded by tyrants?



WORLD EXCLUSIVE: GAB FOUNDER RESPONDS TO SYNAGOGUE MASSACRE & LASHES OUT AT THE LYING MSM
“Gab did not kill anybody, no social media post ever killed anybody”

Paul Joseph Watson | Infowars.com - OCTOBER 28, 2018

https://www.infowars.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/torba.jpg

In an exclusive interview with Infowars, Gab founder Andrew Torba lashed out at the media’s attempt to blame him and the free speech platform he created for yesterday’s horrific Synagogue shooting.

Prior to the the deadly attack, gunman Robert Bowers posted on Gab, “I can’t sit by and watch my people get slaughtered. Screw your optics. I’m going in.”

The killer also had made a number of anti-Semitic posts on Gab in which he made clear his hatred for Jewish people and his opposition to Donald Trump.

Within hours of the shooting, the media rushed to blame Gab, leading to the site being banned by Paypal and Torba being roundly demonized as an enabler of terrorism.

[ Video (https://www.infowars.com/world-exclusive-gab-founder-responds-to-synagogue-massacre-lashes-out-at-the-lying-msm/) ]

Torba made it clear that he had been helping the Department of Justice and the FBI by archiving Bowers’ posts, providing them with “concrete evidence for a motive that they can use in a case to seek justice against this awful monster.”

“Gab did not kill anybody, no social media post ever killed anybody, the only person responsible here is the individual and I think it’s disgusting that I’m being attacked, my face is being put up next to this guy as if I’m the terrorist, we’re receiving death threats,” said Torba.

“Every single day we see thousands of tweets calling for people to kill the president of the United States and this is allowed, we see live streamed murders on Facebook, we see criminal activity in very high volumes across all of the mainstream social media platforms, including ISIS terror cells and pedophiles preying on children and nobody is calling for Facebook to be shut down, nobody is calling for Twitter to be shut down,” said Torba, adding, “So to take the disgusting actions of one man and shut down an entire platform….demonize me and make me out to be some form of terrorist for allowing free expression and individual liberty online for all people is absurd.”

The Twitter competitor Gab.com targeted by payment processors
https://newsvoice.se/2018/10/the-twitter-competitor-gab-com-targeted-by-payment-processors/

[Danke]

I don't care to debate the obvious (i.e. that the Proud Boys are a white nationalist outfit), nor, once again, does it matter vis a vis PayPal.


Let me guess, the minorities that belong are all "uncle Toms" in your world?

Well that's a great talking point right out from Southern Poverty Law Center play book.

[Anti Federalist]

Moot point.

If your business provides a public platform, you cannot violate the free speech provisions of the 1st Amendment.

This has already been adjuticated by the SCOTUS.

Marsh v. Alabama (https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/326/501/)

[Danke]

Moot point.

If your business provides a public platform, you cannot violate the free speech provisions of the 1st Amendment.

This has already been adjuticated by the SCOTUS.

Marsh v. Alabama (https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/326/501/)

the Federal Reserve is private too. Imagine when they start shutting people/groups down. Oh wait, banks are already doing that WRT marijuana businesses...

[jmdrake]

PayPal (https://crunchbase.com/organization/paypal) has shut down several accounts, including those for far-right group the Proud Boys and their founder, Gavin McInnes, for the promotion of “hate, violence, or other forms of intolerance.” Several anti-fascist groups were also banned as part of the same wave of policy enforcement.
PayPal confirmed the bans to TechCrunch, which were first reported by BuzzFeed News (https://twitter.com/blakersdozen/status/1060967090264334336).

More at: https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/09/paypal-shuts-down-accounts-for-proud-boys-and-founder-mcinnes-as-well-as-antifa-groups/

When PayPal shut down Julian Assange, Julian Assange went Bitcoin. Now there is Bitcoin, Ehtereum, Litecoin, Bitcoin Cash, Dogecoin, Steemit,......

Once upon a time I was freaked out over Microsoft's monopoly of web browsers. Then something magical happened. The free market took care of it. Just saying.

[jmdrake]

Moot point.

If your business provides a public platform, you cannot violate the free speech provisions of the 1st Amendment.

This has already been adjuticated by the SCOTUS.

Marsh v. Alabama (https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/326/501/)

Ummmm...that's not what that case actually says. From your link.

State action can be imputed to private entities that have taken over traditional state functions, as is the case with a company town. It also can be found when a state has facilitated or validated the conduct, or become so intertwined with the private entity that there is no longer any perceptible separation.

For this to be a "state action" it has to be a private entity taking over a "traditional state function" or the state has been "so intertwined with the private entity that there is no longer any perceptible separation." Think "Corrections Corporations Of America" (the state usually runs prisons) or Blackwater/XSE (the state usually is in control of any U.S. armed forces).

There is no language in the case you are linking to at all about "platforms". RonPaulForums is technically a "platform." Yet people get banned from here all the time. Maybe that shouldn't happen....but it does and it is totally legal under the U.S. constitution.

As for the state and these private entities being "intertwined", there is a case to be made their. The feds put pressure on PayPal to shut down Julian Assange as well as to cut off BackPage.com prior to changing the law so the state could arrest the owners of BackPage.com. That's an argument, but a dubious one. If PayPal cooperating with the feds on Assange meant they gave up any rights to being a private business, then that would mean every time any business cooperated with government at any level then they would have no rights as a private business. Again, let's take RonPaulForums.com. It's not unthinkable that they could get hit one day with a national security letter because some jackass signed up for an account and then did something actually insane and criminal. There is literally no way to prevent that from happening. Does that mean after that anyone who got banned can could claim 1st amendment privilege? If so...bring back Eduardo!

[Valli6]

Andrew Kovalic fired because a petition created by Media Mobilizing Project - on The Action Network - went "viral", receiving 425 signatures.

Also, there is a We the People rally this Saturday, November 17, 2018 at 11:00 AM – 3:00 PM EST on Market St in Philadelphia. "for all Patriots, Militia, 3%, constitution loving Americans, pro good cop, pro ICE, pro law and order, pro life, pro American value, pro gun and anti illegal immigration..." https://www.facebook.com/events/419562875241231


Comcast Fires Employee Targeted Over Reported Ties to Hate Group

Andrew Kovalic, an alleged member of the Proud Boys, was the subject of a petition by the Philadelphia-based Media Mobilizing Project.
by FABIOLA CINEAS· 11/14/2018, 5:47 p.m.

Comcast on Wednesday fired Andrew Kovalic, a 10-year employee who earlier this week became the target of a viral petition alleging that he is a member of a hate group.

The petition that called for Kovalic’s termination, which had garnered 373 signatures by Wednesday morning, was created and sponsored by the Philadelphia-based nonprofit Media Mobilizing Project, which often scrutinizes media and telecommunications companies like Comcast.

The petition directly addressed Comcast CEO Brian Roberts:


“Employing Andrew Kovalic, a member of the hate group the Proud Boys, is an embarrassment and an insult to the communities of Philadelphia and the country. […] Comcast should terminate his employment immediately, and state clearly and publicly that it will not tolerate racist and fascist speech, organizing and actions from its employees.”

In a statement to Philadelphia magazine, Comcast said, “There’s no place for disrespectful, offensive behavior in our culture. The individual is no longer employed by Comcast.”

When asked how Comcast made its determination to fire Kovalic and what specific behavior led to the company’s decision, a spokesperson said they could not comment on the situation beyond the statement.

Calls made to a cell phone number associated with Kovalic, whose since-deleted LinkedIn profile said he had been working for Comcast as a communications technician since 2008, were not immediately returned.

The petition was created after a Twitter thread by user @AntiFashGordon went viral on Monday, November 12th. The thread called attention to a “We the People” rally scheduled to take place in Philadelphia on Saturday.

On Facebook, the rally’s organizers state that the purpose of the event is to “Show Philly what patriotism really is.” Those encouraged to attend are “patriots, militia, constitution loving Americans” and those who are “pro good cop, pro ICE, pro law and order, pro life, pro American value, pro gun and anti illegal immigration.”

Organizers also wrote, “Any violence, racism, or display of hate by any group or individual is extremely prohibited.”

Despite the rally’s stated purpose, the event is being linked to groups like the Proud Boys, which the Southern Poverty Law Center has deemed a hate group. This is where Kovalic comes in.

The now-former Comcast employee, the petition alleges, is a member of the Harrisburg Proud Boys chapter. The petition also alleges that Kovalic will work as a member of security at Saturday’s rally — which, the petition argues, is sufficient grounds for firing him.

The Media Mobilizing Project petition also calls attention to a photo of Kovalic in his Comcast uniform, holding up the “OK” hand gesture that’s simultaneously a trolling tactic of the alt-right and considered a symbol of white power. More on that here.

The Proud Boys Harrisburg chapter responded to Philadelphia magazine’s request for comment with the following emailed statement:


“We like beer. We still like beer. Have a Dick pic. Sincerely, The Greatest Fucking Fraternity in the History of Mankind.”

A Media Mobilizing Project representative told Philadelphia magazine that “Comcast has done the right thing by not continuing to employ a person planning a rally focused on hate for Black, Brown, immigrant, Jewish and many other communities.”

They added, “But if Comcast truly wants to erase the hate, it has to make a stronger statement in support of communities under threat in these precarious times, and note that it will never tolerate racist, fascist, anti-Semitic and white supremacist words, actions, and organizing by its employees.”

https://www.phillymag.com/news/2018/11/14/comcast-fires-proud-boys-employee

[Swordsmyth]

Andrew Kovalic fired because a petition created by Media Mobilizing Project - on The Action Network - went "viral", receiving 425 signatures.

Also, there is a We the People rally this Saturday, November 17, 2018 at 11:00 AM – 3:00 PM EST on Market St in Philadelphia. "for all Patriots, Militia, 3%, constitution loving Americans, pro good cop, pro ICE, pro law and order, pro life, pro American value, pro gun and anti illegal immigration..." https://www.facebook.com/events/419562875241231
Neo-feudalism is almost upon us, the oligarchs believe that they have stolen enough wealth that they can weaponize private ownership as the new form of government in order to short-circuit the few remaining checks on tyranny.

Competition is the correct answer but through the impoverishment of the public and government regulation they have nearly eliminated that "threat".

We are not there yet but at some point if we don't turn things around they will have stolen enough that any revolution will have to include wealth redistribution, that will be exceedingly dangerous because it is an open door to communism, having crossed the Rubicon and set the precedent how are we to prevent the continuous redistribution of wealth?

[TheCount]

Neo-feudalism is almost upon us, the oligarchs believe that they have stolen enough wealth that they can weaponize private ownership as the new form of government in order to short-circuit the few remaining checks on tyranny.

Competition is the correct answer but through the impoverishment of the public and government regulation they have nearly eliminated that "threat".

Sounds like we need more regulations until we can have fewer regulations.

[Swordsmyth]

Sounds like we need more regulations until we can have fewer regulations.

Get your hearing checked.