Stop the invasion

[LibertyEagle]

Fake Caravans and Decision Time for America
By Robert Ringer

October 27, 2018



People are often surprised when I tell them I believe in open borders … in theory, that is. That’s right, the libertarian side of me believes that a person has a natural right to live wherever he pleases.

Stop and think about that for a moment. Why should a bunch of corrupt politicians and bureaucrats be able to keep you from living in the country of your choosing? Or make you jump through hoops for the honor of legally settling there?

All good theoretical stuff, but, unfortunately, reality has a way of overwhelming theory, and the dominant reality of our age is that a significant number of the earth’s inhabitants believe they have a right to violate your freedom. I’m not just talking about political thugs and bureaucrats, but their envy-crazed followers as well. Thus, the reality of illegal immigration is that it has the potential to destroy a civilized country.

That said, if the United States were to declare undocumented residents ineligible for any form of government assistance, that would be a reality that would change everything. I’m talking about food stamps, unemployment benefits, and healthcare (yes, including emergency room services) — literally, all forms of public assistance — not to mention free education and myriad other government programs.
Some other actions that would change the reality of the illegal-immigrant landscape include:

-Immediately terminating the United States’ absurd anchor-baby policy and have it adjudicated by the Supreme Court once and for all. Babies of non-citizens born in the United States are in no way, shape, or form covered by the 14th Amendment, which was adopted in 1868 specifically to protect the children of former slaves.
-Passing legislation to end the visa lottery and chain migration.
-Meting out steep financial penalties against employers who hire undocumented workers.

The entire article is well worth reading...

read the rest (https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/10/robert-ringer/fake-caravans-and-decision-time-for-america/?fbclid=IwAR2j1lsccuxzCdm9oxU3HJLkFMOleD36P3Srwnje 3yxHK-PwGnTJIU-BNrM)

[Grandmastersexsay]

Agreed, and put up a wall until such legislation has been passed and court rulings won.

[juleswin]

If you really wanted to stem the flow of immigrants to the US, the one thing you can do is to stop interfering in the internal affairs of other countries, stop destabilizing regions of the world. Right now, we have cities with large groups of Syrian, Laotian, Somalian, Vietnamese, Iraqi etc etc immigrants all from places we have interfered with. Then you have this Honduras migrants after Clinton and her henchmen interfered with their govt.

The way they are pressing on Venezuela will lead to more Venezuelans coming to the US. The pattern is clear for all to see, the question I will like to be answered is this, what are we going to do with pols who keep creating destabilization around the world? my answer is this, deport them all.

[TheTexan]

the libertarian side of me believes that a person has a natural right to live wherever he pleases.


the dominant reality of our age is that a significant number of the earth’s inhabitants believe they have a right to violate your freedom

Indeed

[LibertyEagle]

If you really wanted to stem the flow of immigrants to the US, the one thing you can do is to stop interfering in the internal affairs of other countries, stop destabilizing regions of the world. Right now, we have cities with large groups of Syrian, Laotian, Somalian, Vietnamese, Iraqi etc etc immigrants all from places we have interfered with. Then you have this Honduras migrants after Clinton and her henchmen interfered with their govt.

The way they are pressing on Venezuela will lead to more Venezuelans coming to the US. The pattern is clear for all to see, the question I will like to be answered is this, what are we going to do with pols who keep creating destabilization around the world? my answer is this, deport them all.

I agree with you, Jules. But, I also know that we cannot, must not, keep allowing our country to be overrun.

[Anti Federalist]

If you really wanted to stem the flow of immigrants to the US, the one thing you can do is to stop interfering in the internal affairs of other countries, stop destabilizing regions of the world. Right now, we have cities with large groups of Syrian, Laotian, Somalian, Vietnamese, Iraqi etc etc immigrants all from places we have interfered with. Then you have this Honduras migrants after Clinton and her henchmen interfered with their govt.

The way they are pressing on Venezuela will lead to more Venezuelans coming to the US. The pattern is clear for all to see, the question I will like to be answered is this, what are we going to do with pols who keep creating destabilization around the world? my answer is this, deport them all.

The author in the OP addresses these issues.


Let’s get real here: Most of the money we send to third-world countries ends up benefitting, directly or indirectly, the ruling classes. Do we really want to further enrich corrupt politicians and their allies for oppressing their own people?

It’s not that complicated: Corrupt politicians are the main reason why the people of most Central American countries — and, indeed, most countries throughout the world — have been living in poverty and violence for centuries. Short of invading their countries and forcing our system of government on them — which we already know doesn’t work — the reality is that there is nothing we can do to improve the lives of their citizens.

[CaptUSA]

the libertarian side of me believes that a person has a natural right to live wherever he pleases.


the dominant reality of our age is that a significant number of the earth’s inhabitants believe they have a right to violate your freedom


Indeed

+Rep for highlighting the irony!



ETA: Ooops. Looks like I'll owe ya. Must spread it around first.

[CCTelander]

+Rep for highlighting the irony!



ETA: Ooops. Looks like I'll owe ya. Must spread it around first.


Covered.

[juleswin]

The author in the OP addresses these issues.

Sorta I guess. I am would never suggest invading these countries instead my remedy would involve not actively propping those countries up and not actively trying to destabilize those countries with war and economic sanctions. If they did that, I would bet my last dollar that it would lead to a drastic reduction in refugees coming to the US.

This doesn't mean that nobody would be trying to come to the US from third world countries. Heck, I had a good life in Nigeria i.e. better life than most people and my parents still wanted us kids to come to the US for education. As long as the US still has some of the best higher edu institutions, hospitals and overall economic benefits, it would always attract immigrants to it.

What is your answer to my question? what do we do to these politicians causing destability outside(and inside too) our borders?

[juleswin]

I agree with you, Jules. But, I also know that we cannot, must not, keep allowing our country to be overrun.

You know, I also think the best thing we can do for these people is to help foster stability in their country so they do not have to move. This would be good for them and better for our welfare system. Win, win, win all around.

[LibertyEagle]

You know, I also think the best thing we can do for these people is to help foster stability in their country so they do not have to move. This would be good for them and better for our welfare system. Win, win, win all around.

Don't you think that would be minding their business? I mean, what would that fostering stability look like? Overthrowing their leaders? Dictating their form of government? Isn't this how we always get ourselves in trouble?

[Danke]

6168

6169

[CaptUSA]

You know, I also think the best thing we can do for these people is to help foster stability in their country so they do not have to move. This would be good for them and better for our welfare system. Win, win, win all around.

Pretty sure we've done enough "helping to foster stability" in their countries. How about we just butt out, altogether?

[juleswin]

Don't you think that would be minding their business? I mean, what would that fostering stability look like? Overthrowing their leaders? Dictating their form of government? Isn't this how we always get ourselves in trouble?

Yea, that came out all wrong I should rephrase that cos I am with you on the whole non interference policy. What I meant to say is no more getting involved in their civil wars, no more trying to change their economic system or trying to improve their humanitarian standards. Just stop with the destabilization and economic sanctions.

Saudi Arabia is a demonic country who kills their people and their neighbours, they have a wealth redistribution system that would make socialist (read mixed economy) Venezuela blush. I want the US to treat everyone including Iran, Russia, South Korea, Sudan, Syria etc like it treats Saudi Arabia minus the propping of their govt.

[juleswin]

Pretty sure we've done enough "helping to foster stability" in their countries. How about we just butt out, altogether?

This is what I meant but got a little carried away with my post :)

[Ender]

Pretty sure we've done enough "helping to foster stability" in their countries. How about we just butt out, altogether?

Exactly.

The US staged coup in Honduras plus the US military bases etc, has done nothing to "stabilize"- not to mention the meddling in almost every other Central & South American country.

[angelatc]

If you really wanted to stem the flow of immigrants to the US, the one thing you can do is to stop interfering in the internal affairs of other countries


You know, I also think the best thing we can do for these people is to help foster stability in their country

:rolleyes:

[juleswin]

:rolleyes:

I actually explained what I meant in the next few posts. Keep reading :)

[VIDEODROME]

You know, I also think the best thing we can do for these people is to help foster stability in their country so they do not have to move. This would be good for them and better for our welfare system. Win, win, win all around.

Repeal NAFTA?

People complain about it's effects on American jobs, but I think it's also been damaging to Mexico.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

Illegal immigration is bad for Mexico too, which never gets discussed by any side of the debate.

[TheTexan]

Illegal immigration is bad for Mexico too, which never gets discussed by any side of the debate.

It's Mexico though, doesn't matter

[dannno]

6168

6169

Somebody needs to turn this into a music video by The Proclaimers.

[Swordsmyth]

+Rep for highlighting the irony!



ETA: Ooops. Looks like I'll owe ya. Must spread it around first.

I believe that killing people is wrong but I believe I have a right to do so in self defense.

Please explain the irony.

[DamianTV]

You can have EITHER Open Borders OR Welfare. You CANNOT have BOTH.

[Anti Globalist]

End the welfare state and the war on drugs. Those two things pretty much give people a reason to come here.

[dannno]

You can have EITHER Open Borders OR Welfare. You CANNOT have BOTH.


https://vdare.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/milton-friedman-open-borders.jpg

(Jewish, btw)

[oyarde]

Here it is , everyone knows you cannot have open borders in an american welfare state . Everyone knows it is an american welfare state . So what other agenda do the deniers have ? Whatever it is , will it benefit you ? If the answer is no you are not obligated to pretend to be moderate to appease people who plot against your best interest .

[fisharmor]

"All good theoretical stuff, but, unfortunately, reality has a way of overwhelming theory"
That's a fancy way of saying "I don't believe any of it".
This is classic politics, really. Say you believe in a school of thought but practice the exact opposite.
I have this crazy idea that people shouldn't be dirty fucking liars. If you believe in a theory that you don't recognize as born out in reality, then you are either insane or a dirty fucking liar. In both cases I am not reading the rest of your article.

[spudea]

Video of caravan peacefully waiting in line to be processed into Mexico just like what Ron Paul wants to happen at our border. Ender

https://www.facebook.com/AztecaNoticias/videos/937687216424242/

https://www.facebook.com/AztecaNoticias/videos/2159806551013060/

[Swordsmyth]

"All good theoretical stuff, but, unfortunately, reality has a way of overwhelming theory"
That's a fancy way of saying "I don't believe any of it".
This is classic politics, really. Say you believe in a school of thought but practice the exact opposite.
I have this crazy idea that people shouldn't be dirty $#@!ing liars. If you believe in a theory that you don't recognize as born out in reality, then you are either insane or a dirty $#@!ing liar. In both cases I am not reading the rest of your article.
Or reality and a theoretically ideal world are two different sets of conditions and a theory that works in one doesn't in the other.

You can try to come as close to conforming to the theoretical ideal as reality is to the ideal world but you can't go any farther or it won't work at all.

[enhanced_deficit]

Pentagon: 5,000 Troops Will Be Deployed To U.S.-Mexico Border (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?527879-Pentagon-5-000-Troops-Will-Be-Deployed-To-U-S-Mexico-Border&)

[tod evans]

Pretty sure we've done enough "helping to foster stability" in their countries. How about we just butt out, altogether?

Can't rep ya....:(

[juleswin]

Pretty sure we've done enough "helping to foster stability" in their countries. How about we just butt out, altogether?

I am going to add this because I can see some posters putting in their 2 cents like the a govt cannot foster stability without interfering. This is not true and I will give an example. The Nigerian govt have a scholastic exchange program with Russia where academically gifted students are given the opportunity to come to Russia to study mostly STEM majors with nothing asked for in return. These students after studying come home and apply the knowledge they learnt from Russia. Its a small program but it does help the situation back home.

I know the US govt's attempts to help has been very destructive but that is only because they never planned on helping even when they say they were trying to help. You look at Iraq and Libya for example, bombing public infrastructure water plants, electric plants, bridges is no way to help a nation and everybody knows that. So in conclusion, they can help if they actually wanted to help (look at the Marshall plan) but I would take not helping if it is going to look anything similar to their so called helping the last 5 decades.

[VIDEODROME]

It's a weird mess for small farmers facing Big Agra competition, but this situation looks to be hitting Mexican Farmers very hard. Maybe they come over to seeking employment in farming or landscaping in many cases because some of them come from small farms that couldn't function anymore under NAFTA.

I also wonder if some Mexican farmers have been in the crossfire of the Drug War or if their crops destroyed? Maybe this even creates this shift in using the land to produce drugs instead if food crops are less viable. It seems a typical consequence of American involvement in the world to be fighting wars against things we directly or indirectly created in the first place.

I think juleswin has a point that we could approach this with beneficial policy changes instead of more direct heavy handed interventions.


https://youtu.be/CxM6-lsuG-g

[unknown]

Fake Caravans and Decision Time for America
By Robert Ringer

October 27, 2018

The entire article is well worth reading...

read the rest (https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/10/robert-ringer/fake-caravans-and-decision-time-for-america/?fbclid=IwAR2j1lsccuxzCdm9oxU3HJLkFMOleD36P3Srwnje 3yxHK-PwGnTJIU-BNrM)


Doesnt this troop use violate posse comitatus.

[Swordsmyth]

Doesnt this troop use violate posse comitatus.

Protecting the border isn't domestic law enforcement, the border isn't "domestic" it is the threshold where "foreign" begins.

Then there is this:


Posse Comitatus Act Repealed.

On December 31, 2011, President Obama signed the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), codifying indefinite military detention without charge or trial into law for the first time in American history. (To learn more about the NDAA, visit www.aclu.org/NDAA (https://www.aclu.org/ndaa)).

[Dr.3D]

Doesnt this troop use violate posse comitatus.

I'm pretty sure, repelling invaders isn't considered domestic law enforcement.

[enhanced_deficit]

Do not worries liberals, 'invaders' will get nice facilities and handling, Sean penn and MAGA'a largest donor will make sure of that. Especially if they can help with freedom operations in other countries.

Sheldon Adelson: I'm basically a Social Liberal (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?397779-Sheldon-Adelson-I-m-basically-a-Social-Liberal&)

Sheldon Adelson to honor Sean Penn at neocon ball
Philip Weiss on February 26, 2014
Sean Penn’s wikipedia entry begins with his activism. “He is known for his left-wing political and social activism, including humanitarian work.” For instance, he has worked for the Haitian people (http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Shannon+Costello/Artists+Haiti+Dinner+Benefit+Stiller+Foundation/Y-6KqXfzuT4).

[Ender]

End the welfare state and the war on drugs. Those two things pretty much give people a reason to come here.

Absolutely- plus the WoT also creates more immigrants and hatred for the US.

[Brian4Liberty]

6169

While it’s probably safe to assume that some Soros money has found it’s way into this current caravan crisis, has anyone actually followed the money?

[Brian4Liberty]

While it’s probably safe to assume that some Soros money has found it’s way into this current caravan crisis, has anyone actually followed the money?

A quick Google search brings up media reports that the caravan is being coordinated by Pueblo Sin Fronteras. It’s pretty easy to find this information. And despite many Democrat protests that this has nothing to do with any US organizations, a Spanish name for the group does not hide the fact that it is a US organization.

According to their own website, their committee locations are San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego and Tijuana. If you go to their donation page, it takes you to a Paypal page that says that Oakland, Ca is where the donations go.

http://www.pueblosinfronteras.org/commitees.html

[Brian4Liberty]

And more following the money...


Confirmed: Open Borders Group Behind Illegal Alien Caravan Is Linked to Soros’s Open Society

The open borders group behind the illegal alien caravan marching to the US border is funded by several liberal organizations including Soros’s Open Society.

The Pueblo Sin Fronteras (“People Without Borders”) is a project of La Familia Latina Unida, a Chicago, Illinois-based 501(c)(4) illegal immigration advocacy organization formed in 2001 by Elvira Arellano, an activist for immigrants living illegally in the United States.

The group is part of the CARA Coalition and is funded by a number of major left-of-center grantmaking foundations, including the Open Society Foundations, MacArthur Foundation, Ford Foundation, and Carnegie Corporation of New York.
...
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/10/confirmed-open-borders-group-behind-illegal-alien-caravan-is-linked-to-soross-open-society/

[Brian4Liberty]

In Spring 2018, hundreds of migrants from Central America approached the U.S.-Mexico border seeking asylum in the United States and threatening to enter illegally if their request was denied. Pueblo Sin Fronteras, a project of La Familia Latina Unida, organized the caravan in conjunction with the CARA Family Detention Pro Bono Project.[13] [14] The CARA coalition consists of the Catholic Legal Immigration Network, the American Immigration Council, the Refugee and Immigrant Center for Education and Legal Services, and the American Immigration Lawyers Association, all groups advocating for legal status for illegal immigrants and expanded immigration overall.[15] These organizations have been funded by a number of major left-of-center grantmaking foundations, including the Open Society Foundations, MacArthur Foundation, Ford Foundation, and Carnegie Corporation of New York. [16] The caravan eventually halted in Mexico City on April 4 instead of reaching the United States border.

https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/la-familia-latina-unida/

[nobody's_hero]

Anyone here ever tried to fix a broken pipe without cutting off the water?

I've had two instances where I have walked into my house and the well pump has had a fitting burst, and the first thing I had to do was go to the circuit breaker to kill the well pump's power to keep the basement from flooding. I don't know the first damn thing about plumbing, but I know how to cut off the water, and I've seen what happens if you don't.

[Swordsmyth]

The Oath Keepers are calling for President Donald Trump to send enough combat troops to secure the entire U.S.-Mexico border, which would be an acceleration of the military presence that Trump is sending to peacefully block the illegal immigrant Caravan.

“We the military and law enforcement of Oath Keepers call on President Trump to deploy infantry and other combat arms troops to the border with Mexico in large enough numbers to secure the full length of the border against all illegal foreign invaders.

The just-announced joint CBP/DOD operation (https://dod.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1675810/), which will supply military mobility, engineering, medical, and planning support for the Customs and Border Protection (CBP), is a step in the right direction, and may be sufficient to handle the specific mass caravans (https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/weekly-updates/exclusive-reports-caravan-crisis/)of illegals, including MS-13 gang members and criminals from the Middle East, (https://www.foxnews.com/us/some-in-caravan-have-significant-criminal-histories-from-regions-including-mideast-dhs-says) that are currently in the news, but it falls far short of what is actually needed to secure the border against the ongoing daily invasion by illegal aliens.”

More at: https://bigleaguepolitics.com/oath-keepers-to-president-trump-send-combat-troops-to-the-border/

[tfurrh]

I guess I just don't see much wrong with crossing a border. 1) I think a dewd should be able to travel, and 2) most economists agree its good.

And I guess I just don't see much right with preemptive measures to police pre-crime.

If it really is an "invasion" I'm sure we can handle it. If there's crime, we've got plenty of police here that know how to kill folks. If it ain't, it'll most likely be a benefit - and yes that's even accounting for a welfare drain.

Ha
What?
You look like libertarian
Is he cool?
Hell yeah he's cool
I'm libertarian y'all!

[Swordsmyth]

I guess I just don't see much wrong with crossing a border. 1) I think a dewd should be able to travel, and 2) most economists agree its good.

And I guess I just don't see much right with preemptive measures to police pre-crime.

If it really is an "invasion" I'm sure we can handle it. If there's crime, we've got plenty of police here that know how to kill folks. If it ain't, it'll most likely be a benefit - and yes that's even accounting for a welfare drain.

Ha
What?
You look like libertarian
Is he cool?
Hell yeah he's cool
I'm libertarian y'all!
The issue is about political control, the people coming here must be limited so that they don't come in sufficient numbers to take control of our country and overturn the laws and constitution that protect our liberty.

[Dr.3D]

And more following the money...

So isn't Soros breaking the law by funding illegal activities?

Why isn't he being held responsible?

[tfurrh]

The issue is about political control, the people coming here must be limited so that they don't come in sufficient numbers to take control of our country and overturn the laws and constitution that protect our liberty.

About a decade ago a "sufficient number" of folks tried to "take control ... and overturn" a certain political party. It's kinda been a flop.

So a few thousand stringy Hondurans sure ain't gonna take over this country

And the issue is only one issue for every issue. And it isn't "political control" - it's: does X cause harm to my life, liberty, or property?

So some here are opposed to open borders or immigration or whatever, and will make their case from that viewpoint - that's kewl I guess. But not political control lol

[Swordsmyth]

About a decade ago a "sufficient number" of folks tried to "take control ... and overturn" a certain political party. It's kinda been a flop.

So a few thousand stringy Hondurans sure ain't gonna take over this country

And the issue is only one issue for every issue. And it isn't "political control" - it's: does X cause harm to my life, liberty, or property?

So some here are opposed to open borders or immigration or whatever, and will make their case from that viewpoint - that's kewl I guess. But not political control lol
Thousands turn into millions, there are already 20+ million illegals here not counting those that were given amnesty or the descendants of illegals who got anchor baby status and political control = harm to your life, liberty or property because the foreigners invading will use it to take harm them.

[Swordsmyth]

Texas landowners along the US-Mexico border have reportedly been told this week by the US Border Patrol to expect a possible influx of "armed civilians" on their property as a Central American migrant caravan makes its way towards the United States, reports AP (https://www.apnews.com/6cb0dae384cd45ddb9efe49a6aab1789).
https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/tx%20mili2.jpg

The Associated Press reported that these civilians say they intend to support the National Guard and Border Patrol to prevent the illegal migrants from crossing into the U.S.
But some see the move as a negative, arguing that the armed civilians' presence would add even more tension should there be a confrontation.
Three activists told the AP they were going to the border or organizing others, and groups on Facebook have posted warnings about the caravan. One said it was “imperative that we have boots on the ground.” Another wrote: “WAR! SECURE THE BORDER NOW!” -Associated Press (https://www.apnews.com/6cb0dae384cd45ddb9efe49a6aab1789)
Texas Minuteman militia president Shannon McGauley told AP that the group has members stationed at three points throughout the state's border, and expects 25-100 more arriving in coming days.
https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/tx%20mil3.jpg
Militia border patrols are nothing new, as civilians will typically alert border patrol to apprehend trespassers.
On Wednesday, President Trump issued a new warning about the caravan and its "very tough fighters and people," tweeting: "The Caravans are made up of some very tough fighters and people. Fought back hard and viciously against Mexico at Northern Border before breaking through. Mexican soldiers hurt, were unable, or unwilling to stop Caravan. Should stop them before they reach our Border, but won’t!"

The Caravans are made up of some very tough fighters and people. Fought back hard and viciously against Mexico at Northern Border before breaking through. Mexican soldiers hurt, were unable, or unwilling to stop Caravan. Should stop them before they reach our Border, but won’t!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 31, 2018 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1057612657665171457?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) Trump then reiterated that the US military "is being mobilized at the Southern Border" with "Many more troops coming."

President Trump told Fox News on Monday that the migrants are "wasting their time" and said "they are not coming in," adding that the US would build giant tent cities (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-30/trumps-plan-caravan-were-going-put-tents-all-over-place)to house migrants who made it over the border, as opposed to the longstanding policy of "catch and release" by which migrants were assigned court dates and allowed to leave - typically never to be seen again.
https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/migrant%20tents_0.JPG
"If they applied for asylum, we’re going to hold them until such time as their trial takes place," Trump told the Fox News host.
"Where? We have the facilities?" she asked.
"We’re going to put up - we’re going to build tent cities," Trump responded. "We’re going to put tents up all over the place. We’re not going to build structures and spend all of this, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars -- we’re going to have tents."
"They're going to be very nice," he added.

.@POTUS (https://twitter.com/POTUS?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) on facilities for asylum seekers: "We’re going to build tent cities. We’re going to put tents up all over the place." @IngrahamAngle (https://twitter.com/IngrahamAngle?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) pic.twitter.com/fL3ALkNbz4 (https://t.co/fL3ALkNbz4)
— Fox News (@FoxNews) October 30, 2018 (https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/1057099951396786176?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) At this rate the migrants are scheduled for a showdown right around midterms.

More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-31/texas-border-residents-warned-armed-civilians-confronting-caravan-trump-says

[Swordsmyth]

President Trump on Wednesday said that the number of military troops deployed to the southern US border could be as high as 15,000 - more than the 14,000 deployed in Afghanistan - as he vowed not to allow people from the "very dangerous" caravan to enter the country.
"Nobody is coming in. We're not allowing people to come in," said Trump.
Speaking with reporters at the White House, Trump said "we’ll go up to anywhere between 10 and 15,000 military personnel on top of Border Patrol, ICE and everybody else at the border," adding that the Untied States is "going to be prepared" and that migrants are "not coming into our country."

More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-31/trump-bumps-border-troop-estimate-15000-migrant-caravan-approaches


Bring them home and put them on the border!

[Swordsmyth]

A group of Central American migrants facing deportation set fire to a Mexican immigration facility in an apparent attempt to escape. The alleged arson comes at a time when Mexican authorities reported the use of firearms and Molotov cocktails within the migrant caravans as they make their way through Mexico to the United States. The fire was reportedly started at a facility dual-purposed as a checkpoint and makeshift detention center for Mexico’s National Migration Institute (INM) in Pijijiapan, Chiapas, when a group of migrants housed there set fire to their mattresses, Televisa Noticias (https://noticieros.televisa.com/ultimas-noticias/migrantes-en-mexico-incendian-garita-pijijiapan/) reported. According to local public safety director Jaime Marroquin, authorities were housing 21 men, five women, and three children which were in the process of being deported. The migrants reportedly set fires to give cover to their escape.
Firefighters responded to the scene while Mexican Federal Police officers detained the alleged runaways and moved them to a large immigration facility in Tapachula, Chiapas.
The fire comes only hours after Mexican Federal Police arrested two Honduran men who allegedly shot at cops guarding the migrant caravan (https://www.breitbart.com/border/2018/10/30/armed-migrants-in-caravan-opened-fire-on-mexican-cops-say-authorities/) currently in Chiapas, Breitbart News reported.

More at: https://www.breitbart.com/border/2018/10/30/report-central-american-migrants-set-fire-to-mexican-immigration-facility/

[Danke]

Those violent Canadians!

Men burnt alive by mob after false WhatsApp messages accuse them of child kidnap
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/whatsapp-rumours-incite-angry-mob-13576897

[enhanced_deficit]

https://cached-assets.patriotpost.us/images/2017-06-16-39b3115f_large.jpg

[Swordsmyth]

https://cached-assets.patriotpost.us/images/2017-06-16-39b3115f_large.jpg
And?

I don't know of anyone calling for a permanent end to ALL immigration.

The beautiful thing about a door is that it allows you to decide who to let in.

[Swordsmyth]

President Trump (https://thehill.com/people/donald-trump) on Saturday insisted that troops will be stationed at the southern border for “as long as necessary,” despite calls to send the service members home for Thanksgiving.Trump spoke with reporters at the White House before leaving for a trip to California, saying troops have built a “very beautiful fence.”
“The fence is fully manned, nobody gets through,” Trump said. “When they’re caught, they’re not released.”

More at: https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/417253-trump-troops-to-stay-on-border-as-long-as-necessary

[enhanced_deficit]

And?
..

The word "Big" can be easily misconstrued/misread by GOP base/Right and cost base enthuisiasm at polling stations.



Recall when GOP Right misread this stance:

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/AJwG8tF1A2tVJ4fJb4rhTbNbVuI=/0x0:633x331/fit-in/1200x630/cdn1.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9245523/Screen_Shot_2017_09_14_at_10.41.46_AM.png
https://media.gq.com/photos/59b1789279b4243953134483/master/pass/trump-daca-twitter.jpg




as this:


https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/294/982/125.jpg






Can MAGA survive if it lost Brietbart/Coulter/Bannon of GOP Right even if GOP-Jarvanka Dems bring in some left wing-dems under a new bi-partisan MAGA-Pelosi tent?

[Swordsmyth]

Update: President Trump would like everybody to know that razor wire is now installed where the border fence meets the Pacific Ocean:

The Fake News is showing old footage of people climbing over our Ocean Area Fence. This is what it really looks like - no climbers anymore under our Administration! pic.twitter.com/CD4ltRePML (https://t.co/CD4ltRePML)
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 19, 2018 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1064596708875747328?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) ***
Northbound commuters from Mexico trying to pass through the busiest land border crossing in the United States found themselves stuck in line for hours after US Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officials halted traffic in order to reinforce the border amid an arriving Central American migrant caravan, reports Fox5 San Diego (https://fox5sandiego.com/2018/11/19/report-all-northbound-lanes-of-san-ysidro-port-of-entry-closed/?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5bf2bc0e04d301786a17d388&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter). The San Ysidro Port of Entry could be seen blocked off at approximately 3:30 a.m.
https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/border-closed.png
"[We] have temporarily suspended vehicle processing for northbound travelers at the San Ysidro port of entry Monday morning to position additional port hardening materials," said border officials. "After the materials are in position, CBP will resume processing northbound vehicle traffic in select lanes at the border crossing."
https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/DsX3uR1VAAAaB_n.jpg

Armados hasta los dientes... Militares y policías estadounidenses, con equipo antimotines, colocan más barreras y alambradas en las garitas de de San Ysidro y Mesa de Otay en #Tijuana (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Tijuana?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw). El cierre de los cruces fronterizos es indefinido. pic.twitter.com/zv7XrbRzMd (https://t.co/zv7XrbRzMd)
— Asimismo (@_Asimismo) November 19, 2018 (https://twitter.com/_Asimismo/status/1064531704147251201?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/port-of-entry.jpg
By 6:30, around 10 lanes were reopened while the rest remain closed. Northbound pedestrian traffic is still suspended, according to NBC San Diego (https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/CBP-Halts-Traffic-in-US-at-San-Ysidro-Port-of-Entry-500818431.html).

Soldados estadounidenses armados resguardan la garita San Ysidro, en la frontera con Tijuana. #AlAireConPaola (https://twitter.com/hashtag/AlAireConPaola?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) pic.twitter.com/2U8vHrqPyg (https://t.co/2U8vHrqPyg)
— Noticieros Televisa (@NTelevisa_com) November 19, 2018 (https://twitter.com/NTelevisa_com/status/1064534193198133249?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
#INTERNACIONAL (https://twitter.com/hashtag/INTERNACIONAL?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) | Al menos dos horas se mantuvo cerrado el cruce fronterizo entre México y EU, en la garita de San Ysidro #Tijuana (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Tijuana?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw), por colocación de materiales de "endurecimiento de puertos adicionales".
Ya hay circulación para migrantes legales ⚠️ https://t.co/T1CvJIFEGs pic.twitter.com/tUqMqf6ceU (https://t.co/tUqMqf6ceU)
— NOTIRIVAS (@NOTIRIVAS) November 19, 2018 (https://twitter.com/NOTIRIVAS/status/1064531320414642176?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)
Cierran garita en San Ysidro, Tijuana pic.twitter.com/xZYa90ywPr (https://t.co/xZYa90ywPr)
— ����#NICARAGUA���� (@SOSnicaragua11) November 19, 2018 (https://twitter.com/SOSnicaragua11/status/1064529113778716673?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) Over 1,100 US Marines have been deployed to help CBP officials with Operation Secure Line - a "border hardening" mission aimed at preparing the southern US infrastructure for the arrival of thousands of asylum-seekers who began making their way north from Central America in early October.
Razor wire, concrete roadblocks and rebar are being used to construct reinforced barriers that can be used to block lanes at the San Ysidro and Otay Mesa ports of entry around five miles East. The barriers can be seen in this Nov. 13 footage:

Military crews continue to put up razor wire at the border in San Ysidro as a migrant caravan is expected to reach Tijuana. https://t.co/mQH6eqrBNy pic.twitter.com/4IXGNAfSem (https://t.co/4IXGNAfSem)
— Danielle Radin (@danielleradin) November 13, 2018 (https://twitter.com/danielleradin/status/1062426070308114433?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)



https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-11-19/feds-suddenly-halt-traffic-san-diego-port-entry-ahead-migrant-caravan-drivers-stuck

[enhanced_deficit]

Despite conspiracy theories, there is no proof that folks like MAGA's top donor arranged fake wrestling match between MAGA and courts with outcomes pre-determined:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hlyaiSgMXE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hlyaiSgMXE


Related

Trump & Democrats Near Agreement on DACA (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?514924-Trump-amp-Democrats-Near-Agreement-on-DACA&)
McConnell reaches out to Pelosi to find common ground 11/07/18

[presence]

https://vdare.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/milton-friedman-open-borders.jpg



given the mutual exclusivity... maybe

if we have open borders it will precipitate collapse of the welfare state and fiat currency

sounds like win win win to me

[Swordsmyth]

given the mutual exclusivity... maybe

if we have open borders it will precipitate collapse of the welfare state and fiat currency

sounds like win win win to me
If a communist state arises from the ashes is that a "win win win"?

[presence]

If a communist state arises from the ashes is that a "win win win"?

would be about par

[Swordsmyth]

would be about par

So you don't know of any advantages that come from living in America as opposed to the USSR?

[presence]

So you don't know of any advantages that come from living in America as opposed to the USSR?


I'd suspect an industrious agorist working against the regimes wishes would find many profitable niche advantages in both circumstance.

[Swordsmyth]

I'd suspect an industrious agorist working against the regimes wishes would find many profitable niche advantages in both circumstance.
I'd suspect that he would be far more likely to be killed in the USSR or Mao's China.

[presence]

I'd suspect that he would be far more likely to be killed in the USSR or Mao's China.

all the killing in the mao regime happened during the leap forward; 2 or 3 years; 95% was starvation from failed economic policy... a much smaller segment was enforcement violence

a brief blip for a regime that already regulated everything


I don't know about you.. but I shit in a regulated toilet this morning here in the good ole land of the free.



US is already out pacing most other industrialized countries 1000:1 in killed by cop incidents

"likely to be killed" is easy to see in hindsight; but in foresight it could just as easily happen here

all it takes is a charismatic politician with a "great idea"

could be ocasio-cortez's green new deal; could be trumps trade war... depends on how far out of balance the foolish hand of the statist regulator pushes really

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/jZCRJGBtSGKVioT9XftMCIR4_sA=/0x0:580x308/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:580x308):format(webp):no_upscale ()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3733828/The_Economist_police_shootings.0.png

[Swordsmyth]

all the killing in the mao regime happened during the leap forward; 2 or 3 years; 95% was starvation from failed economic policy... a much smaller segment was enforcement violence

a brief blip for a regime that already regulated everything


I don't know about you.. but I $#@! in a regulated toilet this morning here in the good ole land of the free.



US is already out pacing most other industrialized countries 1000:1 in killed by cop incidents

"likely to be killed" is easy to see in hindsight; but in foresight it could just as easily happen here

all it takes is a charismatic politician with a "great idea"

could be ocasio-cortez's green new deal; could be trumps trade war... depends on how far out of balance the foolish hand of the statist regulator pushes really

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/jZCRJGBtSGKVioT9XftMCIR4_sA=/0x0:580x308/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:580x308):format(webp):no_upscale ()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3733828/The_Economist_police_shootings.0.png
With each year's worth of communist invaders the great leap forward gets ever closer, at least in China and Russia it was natives vs. natives, if/when America fall the natives will be hunted by the barbarians.

If you think Zimbabwe was no worse than America then cheer it on.

[presence]

With each year's worth of communist invaders the great leap forward gets ever closer, at least in China and Russia it was natives vs. natives, if/when America fall the natives will be hunted by the barbarians.

If you think Zimbabwe was no worse than America then cheer it on.


interesting tidbit...

if you had to label one the free marketers and one the communists:

barbarians vs romans...

the romans were the commies.

[Zippyjuan]

all the killing in the mao regime happened during the leap forward; 2 or 3 years; 95% was starvation from failed economic policy... a much smaller segment was enforcement violence

a brief blip for a regime that already regulated everything


I don't know about you.. but I $#@! in a regulated toilet this morning here in the good ole land of the free.



US is already out pacing most other industrialized countries 1000:1 in killed by cop incidents

"likely to be killed" is easy to see in hindsight; but in foresight it could just as easily happen here

all it takes is a charismatic politician with a "great idea"

could be ocasio-cortez's green new deal; could be trumps trade war... depends on how far out of balance the foolish hand of the statist regulator pushes really

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/jZCRJGBtSGKVioT9XftMCIR4_sA=/0x0:580x308/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:580x308):format(webp):no_upscale ()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3733828/The_Economist_police_shootings.0.png

Most police in the UK don't even carry guns. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/why-london-won-t-arm-all-police-despite-severe-terror-n737551


The Vast Majority of U.K. Police Don't Carry Guns. Here's Why.

LONDON — The terrorism-linked fire aboard a Tube train, the London Bridge attack and a similar one in March near the heart of Britain's democracy may have been shocking, but authorities have known for years that such incidents were coming.

Last year — when Brits watched terrorists strike France, Germany, and Belgium — London's police chief warned it was a case of "when, not if" the U.K. joined that list.

And yet more than 90 percent of the capital's police officers carry out their daily duties without a gun. Most rely on other tools to keep their city safe: canisters of mace, handcuffs, batons and occasionally stun-guns.

This is no accident.

The Metropolitan Police, which covers most of London, was founded in 1829 on the principle of "policing by consent" rather than by force.

Giving everyday police officers guns sends the wrong message to communities, so this thinking goes, and can actually cause more problems than it solves.

Although there are higher numbers of armed police guarding Parliament, the attacker who rushed its gates in March was shot dead by a relatively rare member of the country's security forces — one who had been trained to use a firearm.

Some of these gun-wielding officers patrol the city in pairs, others are members of crack response teams — units dressed in body-armor, helmets and carrying long rifles — who are called to the scene of violent incidents like these.

In most instances, they don't use their weapons.

In the year up to March 2016, police in England and Wales only fired seven bullets. (Although these government figures do not include accidental shots, shooting out tires, or killing dangerous or injured animals.)

Japan? https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38365729


How Japan has almost eradicated gun crime


Japan has one of the lowest rates of gun crime in the world. In 2014 there were just six gun deaths, compared to 33,599 in the US. What is the secret?

If you want to buy a gun in Japan you need patience and determination. You have to attend an all-day class, take a written exam and pass a shooting-range test with a mark of at least 95%.

There are also mental health and drugs tests. Your criminal record is checked and police look for links to extremist groups. Then they check your relatives too - and even your work colleagues. And as well as having the power to deny gun licences, police also have sweeping powers to search and seize weapons.

That's not all. Handguns are banned outright. Only shotguns and air rifles are allowed.

The law restricts the number of gun shops. In most of Japan's 40 or so prefectures there can be no more than three, and you can only buy fresh cartridges by returning the spent cartridges you bought on your last visit.

Police must be notified where the gun and the ammunition are stored - and they must be stored separately under lock and key. Police will also inspect guns once a year. And after three years your licence runs out, at which point you have to attend the course and pass the tests again.

This helps explain why mass shootings in Japan are extremely rare. When mass killings occur, the killer most often wields a knife.



"The moment you have guns in society, you will have gun violence but I think it's about the quantity," says Overton. "If you have very few guns in society, you will almost inevitably have low levels of violence."

Japanese police officers rarely use guns and put much greater emphasis on martial arts - all are expected to become a black belt in judo. They spend more time practising kendo (fighting with bamboo swords) than learning how to use firearms.

"The response to violence is never violence, it's always to de-escalate it. Only six shots were fired by Japanese police nationwide [in 2015]," says journalist Anthony Berteaux. "What most Japanese police will do is get huge futons and essentially roll up a person who is being violent or drunk into a little burrito and carry them back to the station to calm them down."

More at link.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/gun-deaths-eliminated-america-learn-japan-australia-uk-norway-florida-shooting-latest-news-a8216301.html


Japan, which has strict laws for obtaining firearms, seldom has more than 10 shooting deaths a year in a population of 127 million people.


GunPolicy.org estimates that in 2010 there were 3.78 guns per 100 people in the UK, while the US, meanwhile, is estimated to have 101 guns per 100 people.

The result has been roughly 50 to 60 gun deaths a year in England and Wales, which have a population of 56 million. Compare that to the US, a country about six times as large that has more than 160 times as many gun-related homicides.

[Swordsmyth]

interesting tidbit...

if you had to label one the free marketers and one the communists:

barbarians vs romans...

the romans were the commies.

That was then, this is now, have you heard of AMLO? Or Maduro?

[Swordsmyth]

Most police in the UK don't even carry guns. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/why-london-won-t-arm-all-police-despite-severe-terror-n737551



Japan? https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38365729





More at link.
The UK simply avoids arresting criminals and Japan has a conformist culture.

[Zippyjuan]

The UK simply avoids arresting criminals and Japan has a conformist culture.

We arrest too many people and lock them up at taxpayer expense. Then when they get out they have to say they are criminals which makes getting a job and becoming a productive member of society again much more difficult so they continue to be criminals since it is the only way they can survive. Our jails don't deter crime, they encourage criminals to get better at it. They become schools for crime.

https://shnny.org/research/the-price-of-prisons-what-incarceration-costs-taxpayers/


The Price of Prisons: What Incarceration Costs Taxpayers

Vera Institute of Justice, 2012

This report calculates the total taxpayer cost of prisons during the 2010 fiscal year in 40 states. It finds that the prison system cost taxpayers $38.8 billion nationally. At the state level, Vera ranks New York a distant fourth in daily inmate population, well behind Texas, Calilfornia and Florida. Despite that ranking, the report concludes that New York has the highest per-inmate annual cost in the country, with each inmate costing roughly $60,000 a year. That dollar amount is nearly twice the national average.

The national average was $31,000 per inmate.

[Swordsmyth]

We arrest too many people and lock them up at taxpayer expense. Then when they get out they have to say they are criminals which makes getting a job and becoming a productive member of society again much more difficult so they continue to be criminals since it is the only way they can survive. Our jails don't deter crime, they encourage criminals to get better at it. They become schools for crime.

https://shnny.org/research/the-price-of-prisons-what-incarceration-costs-taxpayers/

Moving the goalposts yet again.

[Danke]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgwXyyVsoMM

[Zippyjuan]

That is a very funny video! "Even deadly Flesh Eating Bacteria!" Everything is so over the top it has to be a satire.

[timosman]

That is a very funny video! "Even deadly Flesh Eating Bacteria!" Everything is so over the top it has to be a satire.

You are so right. How did you become so good at connecting the dots? What should I study to become as good as you are? :confused:

[Anti Federalist]

I miss the days when this forum supported Ron Paul and his unequivocal defense of gun rights and the 2nd Amendment.

[timosman]

I miss the days when this forum supported Ron Paul and his unequivocal defense of gun rights and the 2nd Amendment.

And what good came out of it?

[Anti Federalist]

And what good came out of it?

Nothing...I still miss it though.

[TheTexan]

I miss the days when this forum supported Ron Paul and his unequivocal defense of gun rights and the 2nd Amendment.

I miss the days when this forum was excited about voting.

The people here still vote, just with a lot less energy.

[Swordsmyth]

Beto was caught running political ads targeted at Mexicans in Mexico reading news from Mexican Newsfeeds (https://www.westernjournal.com/ct/report-beto-caught-running-political-ads-mexico)

[Schifference]

I have not voted at the ballot in years. I just use my positive mental energy to change things.

[Anti Federalist]

Bump

[Anti Federalist]

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/jZCRJGBtSGKVioT9XftMCIR4_sA=/0x0:580x308/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:580x308):format(webp):no_upscale ()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3733828/The_Economist_police_shootings.0.png


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cc2sOKc5L4

I'm the last one to defend cops, but for fuck's sake, you can't really call that an honest comparison, when UK cops are so weak and infected by the mind virus that they will not so much as lift a finger as a random colored simulates raping a white female cop.

Bet your ass if that was a native British "bloke" they would have been shot, tased or beaten to a bloody pulp.