US mulls revoking recognition of transgender people

[Swordsmyth]

The administration of US President Donald Trump is considering a proposal to narrowly define gender as a biological, immutable condition determined by birth genitalia, The New York Times reported on Sunday.According to a memo obtained by The Times, the Department of Health and Human Services is leading the effort to establish a legal definition of sex under federal civil rights law that bans gender discrimination in government-funded education programs.
It is the latest effort by President Donald Trump's administration to chip away at protections for the LGBTQ community.
The department's proposed definition of gender would define sex as either male or female, unchangeable, and determined by the genitals that a person is born with, according to a draft reviewed by The Times.
"Sex means a person's status as male or female based on immutable biological traits identifiable by or before birth," the department proposed in the memo, which was drafted and has been circulating since last spring, The Times said.
"The sex listed on a person's birth certificate, as originally issued, shall constitute definitive proof of a person's sex unless rebutted by reliable genetic evidence."
Health and Human Services has called on its own department, as well as Education, Justice and Labor, to adopt its definition in regulations that will establish uniformity in the government and increase the chance that courts will accept it, The Times said.

More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-mulls-revoking-recognition-transgender-people-report-175905194.html

[UWDude]

The administration of US President Donald Trump is considering a proposal to narrowly define gender as a biological, immutable condition determined by birth genitalia, The New York Times reported on Sunday.According to a memo obtained by The Times, the Department of Health and Human Services is leading the effort to establish a legal definition of sex under federal civil rights law that bans gender discrimination in government-funded education programs.
It is the latest effort by President Donald Trump's administration to chip away at protections for the LGBTQ community.
The department's proposed definition of gender would define sex as either male or female, unchangeable, and determined by the genitals that a person is born with, according to a draft reviewed by The Times.
"Sex means a person's status as male or female based on immutable biological traits identifiable by or before birth," the department proposed in the memo, which was drafted and has been circulating since last spring, The Times said.
"The sex listed on a person's birth certificate, as originally issued, shall constitute definitive proof of a person's sex unless rebutted by reliable genetic evidence."
Health and Human Services has called on its own department, as well as Education, Justice and Labor, to adopt its definition in regulations that will establish uniformity in the government and increase the chance that courts will accept it, The Times said.

More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-mulls-revoking-recognition-transgender-people-report-175905194.html


FACTS ARE ACTS OF VIOLENCE!!!
FACTS ARE ACTS OF VIOLENCE!!!
FACTS ARE ACTS OF VIOLENCE!!!
FACTS ARE ACTS OF VIOLENCE!!!
FACTS ARE ACTS OF VIOLENCE!!!

[enhanced_deficit]

This is bit unsettling.

President-Elect Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
abcnews
Nov 13, 2016 - Republican President-elect Donald Trump said he's “fine” with same-sex marriage as the law of the land, calling the issue “settled” by the ...

Why un-settle settled things just 15 days before midterms? Much of GOP Christian base has already made up its mind.



http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/icons/icon14.png US mulls revoking recognition of transgender people



Even if they have been serving in military and are educated?


https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/485/socialembed/https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/908276308265795585~/news/world-us-canada-41267926



If so, does that mean transgender would have even fewer rights than DACA?

[Swordsmyth]

This is bit unsettling.

President-Elect Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is 'Settled' Law
abcnews
Nov 13, 2016 - Republican President-elect Donald Trump said he's “fine” with same-sex marriage as the law of the land, calling the issue “settled” by the ...

Why un-settle settled things just 15 days before midterms? Much of GOP Christian base has already made up its mind.
He says many things and you are deliberately muddling two different issues.





Even if they have been serving in military and are educated?


https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/485/socialembed/https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/908276308265795585~/news/world-us-canada-41267926



If so, does that mean transgender would have even fewer rights than DACA?
Again you deliberately mix two separate issues.

Are you Trans?
If not why do you hate science?

[enhanced_deficit]

Tell that to GOP's Christian base that LGBT issues are different issues.


He says many things and you are deliberately muddling two different issues.


This is a thread about "mudder in chief" who says many things on every topic, so just reproducing his various statements even on a single issue would be an act of mudding. So you got little weight in your argument.

Are you part of Jarvankaites?

[Swordsmyth]

Tell that to GOP's Christian base that LGBT issues are different issues.
Neither you nor I are as simplistic as that and since when is DACA LGBTQWXYZ?





This is a thread about "mudder in chief" who says many things on every topic, so just reproducing his various statements even on a single issue would be an act of mudding. So you got little weight in your argument.
He isn't muddling these issues, you are.



Are you part of Jarvankaites?
Absolutely not.

Why are you shilling for transanity?

[enhanced_deficit]

I'm just shedding light on conflicting, opportunistic stances by mudder-in-chief two weeks before election that in the end could be completely meaningless and just pre-election redmeat tasters for GOP Christian base (if any of them still find him honest and trustworthy).

[Swordsmyth]

I'm just shedding light on conflicting, opportunistic stances by mudder-in-chief two weeks before election that in the end could be completely meaningless and just pre-election redmeat tasters for GOP Christian base (if any of them still find him honest and trustworthy).
They aren't conflicting and if you think they aren't sincere then say so without muddling.

And this isn't just talk, this is an actual change of policy back towards sanity so it makes much less difference whether it is election season red meat or not.

[LibertyEagle]

The administration of US President Donald Trump is considering a proposal to narrowly define gender as a biological, immutable condition determined by birth genitalia,
More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-mulls-revoking-recognition-transgender-people-report-175905194.html

Sounds like a sane position to me.

[Jamesiv1]

This could be YUGE.

[Schifference]

Same sex marriage is not the same as identifying as a different gender.

Good call on Trump. Hope he follows thru. Too many complications with current direction.

The state might back a person that wants to identify as a different gender but what happens when that person is convicted of a crime? They let males compete against females because they identify as a female. Would a judge sentence a convicted felon male that identifies as a female to years in the female penitentiary? This could redefine the definition of hard labor. Maybe we will see serial killers appearing in court and demanding that he be referred to as she in all proceedings.

[fedupinmo]

If so, does that mean transgender would have even fewer rights than DACA?
Transgenders will have the same rights as everybody else which is what equal protection under the law really means. That includes the right to be delusional if you so desire, but it certainly doesn't include the right to force everyone else to live according to your delusion.

[Ender]

Neither you nor I are as simplistic as that and since when is DACA LGBTQWXYZ?





He isn't muddling these issues, you are.



Absolutely not.

Why are you shilling for transanity?

Look you don't have to agree enhanced_deficit but calling him a shill is going waaaay overboard.

Having some decent dialog with people that are expressing different POV's goes a lot farther than insults & name-calling.

[jmdrake]

Meh. Gender identity disorder is just that, a disorder. We treat bipolar disorder by treating the brain. Same with obsessive compulsive disorder or any other disorder except GID. That said....if a man has not only through the hormone treatment and had "gender reassignment surgery" and got busted, would he really belong in a men's prison? (I guess Chelsae Manning is still in a male prison....which makes no sense to me.) On the flipside, the Charlotte NC/Obama position that "People should be able to be whatever gender it is they think they are at the moment" makes no sense to me either. So....a man is going to prison for rape....can he say "I feel like a woman now so send to a woman's prison! It's my right!" Of course not! The so called "metoo" movement would have a cow if Bill Cosby got sent to a women's prison, penis intact. (Though I guess he can't see now so it doesn't matter.) And the NC bill that the left freaked out on, which said people had to use the bathroom based on their birth certificate, really didn't affect transgenders, because most states, including North Carolina, allow transgenders to change their birth certificates! (That's probably why Trump used the specific language of "genitalia at birth" rather than "birth certificate"). And, of course, there are people who are actually born with both sets of genitalia. Rare....but it happens.

As far as Trump being all over the map....this belongs here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWh4a98Fwlc

Oh, and at 3:45 in this video, Paul Joseph Watson lies worse than Rachel Madcow ever did. The preacher that was on the stage with Ted Cruz made it clear in that video that he was not calling for the execution of gays, but that the Old Testament did, along with adulterers and other people who had committed certain sins. He went on to say that he was calling for repentance, not execution. But that's a side note.

[Anti Federalist]

The administration of US President Donald Trump is considering a proposal to narrowly define gender as a biological, immutable condition determined by birth genitalia, The New York Times reported on Sunday.According to a memo obtained by The Times, the Department of Health and Human Services is leading the effort to establish a legal definition of sex under federal civil rights law that bans gender discrimination in government-funded education programs.

Sane, rational and logical.

[Danke]

Meh. Gender identity disorder is just that, a disorder. We treat bipolar disorder by treating the brain. Same with obsessive compulsive disorder or any other disorder except GID. That said....if a man has not only through the hormone treatment and had "gender reassignment surgery" and got busted, would he really belong in a men's prison? (I guess Chelsae Manning is still in a male prison....which makes no sense to me.) On the flipside, the Charlotte NC/Obama position that "People should be able to be whatever gender it is they think they are at the moment" makes no sense to me either. So....a man is going to prison for rape....can he say "I feel like a woman now so send to a woman's prison! It's my right!" Of course not! The so called "metoo" movement would have a cow if Bill Cosby got sent to a women's prison, penis intact. (Though I guess he can't see now so it doesn't matter.) And the NC bill that the left freaked out on, which said people had to use the bathroom based on their birth certificate, really didn't affect transgenders, because most states, including North Carolina, allow transgenders to change their birth certificates! (That's probably why Trump used the specific language of "genitalia at birth" rather than "birth certificate"). And, of course, there are people who are actually born with both sets of genitalia. Rare....but it happens.

As far as Trump being all over the map....this belongs here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWh4a98Fwlc

Oh, and at 3:45 in this video, Paul Joseph Watson lies worse than Rachel Madcow ever did. The preacher that was on the stage with Ted Cruz made it clear in that video that he was not calling for the execution of gays, but that the Old Testament did, along with adulterers and other people who had committed certain sins. He went on to say that he was calling for repentance, not execution. But that's a side note.

She was sentenced to serve a 35-year sentence at the maximum-security U.S. Disciplinary Barracks (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Disciplinary_Barracks) at Fort Leavenworth.[20] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Manning#cite_note-20)[21] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Manning#cite_note-Hanna21Aug2013-21) On January 17, 2017, President Barack Obama commuted (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_granted_executive_clemency_by_Barac k_Obama) Manning's sentence to nearly seven years of confinement dating from her arrest on May 27, 2010.[22] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Manning#cite_note-nyt-17jan2017-22)[23] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Manning#cite_note-23) Manning now earns a living through speaking engagements.[24] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Manning#cite_note-Sun16Feb2018-24)

[jmdrake]

She was sentenced to serve a 35-year sentence at the maximum-security U.S. Disciplinary Barracks (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Disciplinary_Barracks) at Fort Leavenworth.[20] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Manning#cite_note-20)[21] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Manning#cite_note-Hanna21Aug2013-21) On January 17, 2017, President Barack Obama commuted (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_granted_executive_clemency_by_Barac k_Obama) Manning's sentence to nearly seven years of confinement dating from her arrest on May 27, 2010.[22] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Manning#cite_note-nyt-17jan2017-22)[23] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Manning#cite_note-23) Manning now earns a living through speaking engagements.[24] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Manning#cite_note-Sun16Feb2018-24)

Thank you for the update. I will chalk that up to one of the things Obama did that I actually agreed with. I am still curious as to if she was ever put in a female prison but I guess if she was in solitary confinement that doesn't matter anyway.

[kpitcher]

why should the government be involved in gender identification?

[Swordsmyth]

Look you don't have to agree @enhanced_deficit (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=47542) but calling him a shill is going waaaay overboard.

Having some decent dialog with people that are expressing different POV's goes a lot farther than insults & name-calling.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck I am going to call it a duck.

[Swordsmyth]

why should the government be involved in gender identification?
Because it has to do things like decide which prison to send a convict to.

[TheCount]

Which gender will be assigned to those with abnormal genetics?

[Swordsmyth]

Which gender will be assigned to those with abnormal genetics?

Do they have a Y chromosome?

Whatever you think about those with abnormal genetics they can be an exception maybe, this is the main rule.

[TheCount]

Do they have a Y chromosome?

Yes, in half of the cells of their body. In the other half, no.

[Swordsmyth]

Yes, in half of the cells of their body. In the other half, no.

Link?

Whatever you think about those with abnormal genetics they can be an exception maybe, this is the main rule.

[TheCount]

Link?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?527658-US-mulls-revoking-recognition-of-transgender-people&p=6697003&viewfull=1#post6697003



Whatever you think about those with abnormal genetics they can be an exception maybe, this is the main rule.

Genetic testing on such a person would yield only the results found in that part of the body. If they had all of one kind of cell in their mouth, but another in their genitals, they could, for example, genetically test as female but have a fully functioning penis and testes. Or give birth to or father a child which a paternity or maternity test would say is not their child.

Such a rule would say, based on mouth swab, that the person is female despite having a penis. Or male. Or whatever.


And then the state cuts off the one-year-old boy's dick and removes his testicles because the doctor guessed wrong. (https://www.splcenter.org/seeking-justice/case-docket/mc-v-aaronson)

[Swordsmyth]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?527658-US-mulls-revoking-recognition-of-transgender-people&p=6697003&viewfull=1#post6697003

That isn't a link to documentation of the condition you describe.




Genetic testing on such a person would yield only the results found in that part of the body. If they had all of one kind of cell in their mouth, but another in their genitals, they could, for example, genetically test as female but have a fully functioning penis and testes. Or give birth to or father a child which a paternity or maternity test would say is not their child.

Such a rule would say, based on mouth swab, that the person is female despite having a penis. Or male. Or whatever.


And then the state cuts off the one-year-old boy's dick and removes his testicles because the doctor guessed wrong. (https://www.splcenter.org/seeking-justice/case-docket/mc-v-aaronson)

Such exceptions don't change the main rule, they can be dealt with as exceptions.

[TheCount]

That isn't a link to documentation of the condition you describe.

Correct.



Such exceptions don't change the main rule, they can be dealt with as exceptions.
Most of those exceptions will never be dealt with as exceptions because no one would think to test their DNA from multiple parts of their body.

And because, if this becomes federal law, transgendered people will just continue to be transgendered without involving the federal government.

[Swordsmyth]

Correct.
So you can't document the existence of the condition you claim exists?




Most of those exceptions will never be dealt with as exceptions because no one would think to test their DNA from multiple parts of their body.
If they only have one set of genitalia then what will be the problem?


And because, if this becomes federal law, transgendered people will just continue to be transgendered without involving the federal government.
So?
The government has to treat them as what they really are when it interacts with them in ways that gender makes a difference, Trump isn't trying to outlaw their insanity.

[TheCount]

So you can't document the existence of the condition you claim exists?

I can, but I wanted to see if you'd address the underlying issue rather than diving down a rabbit hole of detail to avoid discussion.



If they only have one set of genitalia then what will be the problem?

For extremely obvious reasons, whoever is reporting the birth is just working off of the outward appearance of the baby's genitals. This definition presumes that it is impossible for the reporter to be wrong.


So?
The government has to treat them as what they really are when it interacts with them in ways that gender makes a difference, Trump isn't trying to outlaw their insanity.

The reason that people get all wrapped around the axle with the transgender topic has nothing to do with government.

[Swordsmyth]

I can, but I wanted to see if you'd address the underlying issue rather than diving down a rabbit hole of detail to avoid discussion.
Link?
You are the one diving down a rabbit hole of detail to avoid discussion.





For extremely obvious reasons, whoever is reporting the birth is just working off of the outward appearance of the baby's genitals. This definition presumes that it is impossible for the reporter to be wrong.
No it doesn't.




The reason that people get all wrapped around the axle with the transgender topic has nothing to do with government.
Yes it does, nobody cared much compared to many other more important issues until government got involved pushing insanity as reality, Trump is just setting things back where they belong and always used to be.

[spudea]

the article can't even keep its terms right. The law says sex discrimination, not gender discrimination. And its the loony left that will be the first to tell you that sex and gender are different concepts, so if you want the law to say something else you have to win elections and change the law!

[KEEF]

Do they have a Y chromosome?

Whatever you think about those with abnormal genetics they can be an exception maybe, this is the main rule.
Y chromosome or SRY gene? You’d be surprised what those two major flushes of testosterone can do during embryogenesis.

[thoughtomator]

Any transgender who is actually serious about it and not play-acting for fun ought to be thrown out of a helicopter. These people are dangerously insane.

[Swordsmyth]

Y chromosome or SRY gene? You’d be surprised what those two major flushes of testosterone can do during embryogenesis.

The SRY gene is found on the Y chromosome.

https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/gene/SRY

[UWDude]

.....goes a lot farther than insults & name-calling.

Goes a lot further towards what goal? Changing people's minds? If so, you are hardly the one to be dishing out advice on the subject. Being honest about your beliefs goes a lot further than trying to use persuasive rhetoric.

[Brian4Liberty]

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[jmdrake]

Any transgender who is actually serious about it and not play-acting for fun ought to be thrown out of a helicopter. These people are dangerously insane.

GID is indeed a mental disorder, but we don't kill people with mental disorders just because "they might be dangerous." There is no indication that GID is dangerous. There is treatment. The real problem is that the doctors are not allowed to actually treat GID because of political correctness.

This belongs here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_-EVp3fLpg&t=13s

[jmdrake]

Yes, in half of the cells of their body. In the other half, no.


Link?

Whatever you think about those with abnormal genetics they can be an exception maybe, this is the main rule.

Here is a "main rule" that covers everything. It's the North Carolina rule that the left freaked out about. You are identified by whatever is on your birth certificate. Say if you are truly intergender and your birth certificate got it "wrong" by saying you're a woman when you really identify as a man. Okay. Pick one, change your birth certificate (that is allowed) and stick with it. Same if you were born fully as a man but you have GID. The medical community should be brought to heel for their unethical practice of not allowing GID to be treated as a mental disorder. That said, based on our current environment, transgenders are allowed to change their birth certificate. So...if that's really what you want to do, then change your B.C. None of this "use the bathroom of whatever gender you feel like at the moment" crap.

[Zippyjuan]

Should we care what sex somebody wants to call themselves? Or should the government say what they can and can't do?

[dannno]

Should we care what sex somebody wants to call themselves? Or should the government say what they can and can't do?

Zippy, you are completely ass backwards wrong as usual.

Nobody here cares what sex somebody wants to call themselves. If somebody wants to say they are an ostrich, nobody here gives a flying fuck. It is when this "ostrich" tries to use the force of law to tell me that I must consider them an ostrich that is the problem.. or specifically, when some weirdosexual comes into your store or restaurant and sues you because you won't let them use the little girl's room, because they identify as a little girl..

Everybody sees through your bullshit shtick..

Also for athletic competitions held by schools, which are public institutions, boys should not be able to identify as females in order to dominate the field.

[Zippyjuan]

Zippy, you are completely ass backwards wrong as usual.

Nobody here cares what sex somebody wants to call themselves. If somebody wants to say they are an ostrich, nobody here gives a flying $#@!. It is when this "ostrich" tries to use the force of law to tell me that I must consider them an ostrich that is the problem.. or specifically, when some weirdosexual comes into your store or restaurant and sues you because you won't let them use the little girl's room, because they identify as a little girl..

Everybody sees through your bull$#@! shtick..

Also for athletic competitions held by schools, which are public institutions, boys should not be able to identify as females in order to dominate the field.

It should be up to the organization putting on the athletic competition to decide who they allow to compete.

Should we have "bathroom police" to make certain people use the proper facilities?

[timosman]

Should we care what sex somebody wants to call themselves? Or should the government say what they can and can't do?

I have no problem with Zippy calling himself a libertarian. Everybody knows it's BS but that's OK. :D

[dannno]

It should be up to the organization putting on the athletic competition to decide who they allow to compete.

In the case of schools, the organization is the government...



Should we have "bathroom police" to make certain people use the proper facilities?

Is that even remotely close to what I said?

I'll give you a hint.. no

Your antics suck.

[Dr.3D]

I have no problem with Zippy calling himself a libertarian. Everybody knows it's BS but that's OK. :D

Maybe he's a trans libertarian.

[Zippyjuan]

In the case of schools, the organization is the government...



Is that even remotely close to what I said?

I'll give you a hint.. no

Your antics suck.

So you don't care which bathroom they use. Good.

[dannno]

So you don't care which bathroom they use. Good.

Property owners should not be FORCED by the government to allow perverts to use whatever bathroom they want..

Trump is on the libertarian side of this issue here. People can CALL themselves whatever they want, but they can't force their personal decision on other people.

Trump's new mandate helps protect property owners. It also helps schools and their athletic programs ban trans girls from dominating girls sports.

[Swordsmyth]

It should be up to the organization putting on the athletic competition to decide who they allow to compete.
And the government was trying to do it by forcing people to recognize the trannies assertions.


Should we have "bathroom police" to make certain people use the proper facilities?
We should have police that respond if a store owner calls because a weirdo refuses to follow his rules and is scaring his customers.

[Zippyjuan]

Property owners should not be FORCED by the government to allow perverts to use whatever bathroom they want..

Trump is on the libertarian side of this issue here. People can CALL themselves whatever they want, but they can't force their personal decision on other people.

Trump's new mandate helps protect property owners. It also helps schools and their athletic programs ban trans girls from dominating girls sports.

Both Trump and Obama offered "guidance" on the issue- not any laws mandating anything.

Libertarians should let them do whatever they want a long as they are not hurting somebody else.

Bathrooms do not require government regulation. How often is it a problem that somebody uses the "wrong one"? Are trannies taking over America's bathrooms? Corrupting our morals and destroying America? Should we send in the military to protect them? Why are people getting so excited over a pointless issue?

[Swordsmyth]

Both Trump and Obama offered "guidance" on the issue- not any laws mandating anything.

Libertarians should let them do whatever they want a long as they are not hurting somebody else.

Bathrooms do not require government regulation. How often is it a problem that somebody uses the "wrong one"? Are trannies taking over America's bathrooms? Corrupting our morals and destroying America? Should we send in the military to protect them? Why are people getting so excited over a pointless issue?

:rolleyes:

[dannno]

Both Trump and Obama offered "guidance" on the issue- not any laws mandating anything.

Libertarians should let them do whatever they want a long as they are not hurting somebody else.

Bathrooms do not require government regulation. How often is it a problem that somebody uses the "wrong one"? Are trannies taking over America's bathrooms? Corrupting our morals and destroying America? Should we send in the military to protect them? Why are people getting so excited over a pointless issue?

Why don't you make posts that are relevant to what people are discussing? Do you just copy and paste pre-scripted comments?

I keep saying property owners should get to decide, and government shouldn't force them to let people use whatever bathroom they want. You keep twisting that into bathrooms and government regulation.. you're the one on the side of regulation, you want trannies to be able to sue property owners if they don't let them use whatever restroom they want..

[KEEF]

https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/gene/SRY
Not always, see how Klinefelter’s Syndrome occurs during cross-over

[thoughtomator]

A reminder of Site Guidelines:

These guys have been bending your site guidelines over for years now... and you have happily let them do so.

Shall we revisit the anti-Trump jihad conducted by members who are still present and posting? Where they target-harassed everyone who wasn't on board with the hate-Trump madness?

Sorry man, but your rules are a joke and it's because you let the rulebreakers run rampant to the point where they own your forum now.

If you want to clean up the act here, go through my ignore list and ban every single one of those accounts, and you'll finally have a reasonably clean forum where adult topics can be debated by adults again.

[TheCount]

Link?
You are the one diving down a rabbit hole of detail to avoid discussion.

"It is possible for birth certificates to be wrong" and "it is possible for genetic testing to be wrong" is not much detail at all. If that's overwhelming then I'm not sure you can handle more.


No it doesn't.Yuh huh.


Yes it does, nobody cared much compared to many other more important issues until government got involved pushing insanity as reality, Trump is just setting things back where they belong and always used to be.

Birth certificates could never be corrected?

[TheCount]

Sorry man, but your rules are a joke and it's because you let the rulebreakers run rampant to the point where they own your forum now.

Says the guy whose post advocating the murder of an entire group of people is on the same page as this complaint.


Any transgender who is actually serious about it and not play-acting for fun ought to be thrown out of a helicopter. These people are dangerously insane.



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