Why caravan migrants wave Honduran flags and burn tires in front of U.S. embassy

[Anti Federalist]

Why caravan migrants wave Honduran flags and burn tires in front of U.S. embassy

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/10/why_hondurans_burn_tires_in_front_of_us_embassy_an d_wave_honduran_flags_to_protest_us_border.html

By Monica Showalter

Waving the flag of the country they're desperate not to be sent back to, and burning tires in front of the Tegucigalpa-located embassy of the nation they're supposedly desperate to live in, the Honduras caravan migrants, their organizers and their supporters don't exactly come off as big fans of the United States.

Here's how the Daily Mail captioned one of its photos, seen here:

In Tegucigalpa, Honduras protesters burn tires at the US embassy during a march in support of the caravan of migrants on Friday. Hundreds of people marched to express their solidarity with the caravan of migrants trying to reach the United States

And as it happened, it was led by the Guatemala-arrested-and-deported organizer of the caravan, the far-left Honduran politician and supporter of Hugo Chavez and Mel "cowboy hat" Zelaya, Bartolo Fuentes.

Nor does the caravan come across as entirely free of thugs intent on harming others.

According to the Daily Mail:

Late Friday night, Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto said in an address to the nation that a large group of migrants had 'tried to enter Mexican territory irregularly, attacking and even hurting some elements of the Federal Police.'

'Mexico does not permit and will not permit entry into its territory in an irregular fashion, much less in a violent fashion,' he said.

The Mail also has some vivid pictures of Honduran-flag waving would-be migrants burning flags in front of the U.S. embassy in Tegucigalpa.

It makes these caravaners rather different in kind from past immigrants to the U.S., the people who'd kiss the ground upon their arrival and who would write paeans to the golden door and the shining city on the hill.

Not these guys.

The caravan is exposing the ugly underbelly of what it's really about -- an invasion of sorts, a conquest, a bid to lay gringo low - rather than a legitimate interest in legally immigrating and assimilating into the American melting pot. The only thing such anti-American haters could possibly want in demanding to be let in, legally or not, seems to be benefits, courtesy of the U.S. taxpayer, and to stick it into law-abiding America's faces that they're the ones who determine what the law is, not the Americans they hate. For the criminal population among them, there's also the bigger mayhem opportunities.

The Associated Press reports that the group has gotten into Mexico and has since swelled to 5,000. Al Jazeera reports that "All of Honduras wants to come here."

Obviously, the caravan and its organizing leaders are intending to be a test case for President Trump, with a the defiant message that they'll cross the U.S. border any time they like, immigration laws be damned. They're hoping to demonstrate such a reality with huge masses of people, who will ultimately be daring the U.S. military or border guards to fire on them, the better for their leaders to cynically claim a propaganda victory over some migrant's dead body and to ensure that as the U.S. wraps itself in pretzels over its dreaded crimes against unarmed civilians should one of them be fired upon. They know they have allies - we can count on the pope, for one, making a rare condemnation of America in such a scenario, (don't worry, he'll keep ignoring Middle Eastern Christians, shortchanging Ukrainian Uniates, and betraying Chinese Catholics, as well as pretending the pervert priest crisis in the West is a matter of collective guilt, not a particular protection racket), and the congressional Democrats, too. After a brouhaha is established and the media acts as their propaganda handmaid, the border will be free.

Because they know that Trump was stopped dead in his tracks when he tried to separate families at the border to disincentivize illegal border busting, and the crying toddler photos flowed in the press. The cynical organizers of this are doing a repeat of that with the caravan, full as it is with military-aged young men, and a few toddlers strategically placed out front, knowing they can beat Trump with such a propaganda weapon, and the large numbers as well.

So it makes perfect sense to burn tires and wave Honduran flags at the embassy of the nation they claim a "right" to live in, yet certainly do not like or even love. Nope, it's all about power here, and Trump has got his hands full.

[Swordsmyth]

Sooner or later the west will either embrace the savagery that supports civilization or it will lose civilization entirely.

[CCTelander]

Sooner or later the west will either embrace the savagery that supports civilization or it will lose civilization entirely.


You seem confused. Civilization and savagery are diametrically opposed concepts. I suggest a course in remedial logic.

[r3volution 3.0]

Sooner or later the west will either embrace the savagery that supports civilization or it will lose civilization entirely.

It's already done both.

The West is now merely a geographical expression.

[nobody's_hero]

It's already done both.

The West is now merely a geographical expression.

In other words, America was never great.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stR5nWkq3LU

[Swordsmyth]

You seem confused. Civilization and savagery are diametrically opposed concepts. I suggest a course in remedial logic.
You are confused, civilization is built on top of savagery, savagery was required to tame savagery, if we lose contact with our savage side we will lose the foundation we have built civilization on top of.

[Swordsmyth]

It's already done both.

The West is now merely a geographical expression.
Nothing you said is true.

[r3volution 3.0]

In other words, America was never great.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stR5nWkq3LU

European civilization, The West, was doomed a very long time ago.

It died in London 1649, or Paris 1793, or Yekaterinburg 1918.

Everything beautiful was destroyed.

The United States represents an unsuccessful escape from Europe.

...unsuccessful.

[Anti Federalist]

It's already done both.

The West is now merely a geographical expression.

I think there are still a few gems left in the ashes worth defending such as: a government only has one reason to exist and that is to protect individual rights.

Maybe I'm just being naive, but I find myself drawn to trying to defend the west, even as the entire world seeks to destroy it and what it stands for.

[r3volution 3.0]

I think there are still a few gems left in the ashes worth defending such as: a government only has one reason to exist and that is to protect individual rights.

That still exists?

Which party promotes that?

The Libertarians, who get <1% every election, gluttons for punishment that they are.


Maybe I'm just being naive, but I find myself drawn to trying to defend the west, even as the entire world seeks to destroy it and what it stands for.

It doesn't stand for anything.

It once did.

[Swordsmyth]

That still exists?

Which party promotes that?

The Libertarians, who get <1% every election, gluttons for punishment that they are.



It doesn't stand for anything.

It once did.

It still stands for it more than anywhere else, grey isn't white but it isn't black either.

[r3volution 3.0]

It still stands for it more than anywhere else, grey isn't white but it isn't black either.

No, it actually means nothing.

Everywhere in Europe and also on this continent all politics are dominated by socialists of various kinds.

Both parties here, and all parties in Europe with any chance of governing are socialist parties.

[Anti Federalist]

That still exists?

Which party promotes that?

The Libertarians, who get <1% every election, gluttons for punishment that they are.

It doesn't stand for anything.

It once did.

After getting a good look at what the opposition has planned for us, I'm willing to pick up the flag and move in to fill the gap in the lines.

You may do as you wish.

[RJB]

No, it actually means nothing.

Everywhere in Europe and also on this continent all politics are dominated by socialists of various kinds.

Both parties here, and all parties in Europe with any chance of governing are socialist parties.

So what? I don't care for socialism, but people in Europe seem happy with their way of life. Most people work and use the safety net as needed. Why do they need to let in a flood of people who wish to take advantage of their system and turn Europe into a third world hellhole?

[Swordsmyth]

No, it actually means nothing.

Everywhere in Europe and also on this continent all politics are dominated by socialists of various kinds.

Both parties here, and all parties in Europe with any chance of governing are socialist parties.

Again you demonstrate that you either can't distinguish grey from black or that you have ulterior motives.

[Anti Federalist]

So what? I don't care for socialism, but people in Europe seem happy with their way of life. Most people work and use the safety net as needed. Why do they need to let in a flood of people who wish to take advantage of their system and turn Europe into a third world hellhole?

Diversity.

[RJB]

Diversity.

That's not the reason. That's the cover for turning my country into a third world hellhole.

[Pauls' Revere]

So what? I don't care for socialism, but people in Europe seem happy with their way of life. Most people work and use the safety net as needed. Why do they need to let in a flood of people who wish to take advantage of their system and turn Europe into a third world hellhole?

In the case of Germany, perhaps its a guilty hangover from the atrocities of WW2? This way they clear their conscious and affirm their place on the World Stage.

[Danke]

In other words, America was never great.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stR5nWkq3LU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KSJY0c8QWw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnqG9XAoseU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1CLQaX_EUw

[r3volution 3.0]

So what? I don't care for socialism, but people in Europe seem happy with their way of life. Most people work and use the safety net as needed. Why do they need to let in a flood of people who wish to take advantage of their system and turn Europe into a third world hellhole?

Spending more than you produce isn't sustainable.

The non-German peoples of Europe will sooner or later have to pay their own way.

....the whole thing is rather perverse, considering what happened at the end of the last war.

Every city in Germany was firebombed.

And yet, somehow, the Germans have to finance the reconstruction of the idiot communists of Italy.

And now Salvini has to be treated as a person..

[Anti Federalist]

That's not the reason. That's the cover for turning my country into a third world hellhole.

Precisely...but don't you feel more culturally enriched and less guilty?

The only reason you don't drink out of an open sewer is because of your privilege.

[r3volution 3.0]

I might add., if the traitorous Italians had honored their alliance with Germany and Austria in 1914, the world would be quite different.

There would have been no Mussolini and, much more importantly, there would have been no Lenin or Hitler.

Germany would have won the first war world in 1914, and there would have been no second war, or any of the rest of it.

Italians can't be trusted to make anything but pasta.

[nobody's_hero]

No, it actually means nothing.

Everywhere in Europe and also on this continent all politics are dominated by socialists of various kinds.

Both parties here, and all parties in Europe with any chance of governing are socialist parties.

I'm still trying to figure out where "fuck it, throw open the gates" factors into this. If someone comes to your house and robs you while you're away, you just say, "damn it, I'll just leave my door unlocked from now on if that's the way it's gonna be. it's no use!"

[DamianTV]

That's not the reason. That's the cover for turning my country into a third world hellhole.

Agreed. Many come here, not because they seek a better life, but because they (probably rightfully) blame the US for wrecking their lives in their home countries.

Notice the TIMING of this all also. I would NOT be one bit surprised if the shit happening in Honduras right now was purposefully enabled by the Status Quo, with Arms Deals, and enabling the criminals to disrupt their country, drive migrants our way, then theres a major point for Democrats to beat everyone over the head with.

Election Distraction.

[RJB]

I'm still trying to figure out where "fuck it, throw open the gates" factors into this. If someone comes to your house and robs you while you're away, you just say, "damn it, I'll just leave my door unlocked from now on if that's the way it's gonna be. it's no use!"

It's odd when you think of it. People like me who are picky about immigration are mislabeled as haters, but when you get right down to it with some open border types, they really have a pathological hatred towards European people and societies to the point where they want to burn it all down. I am not the biggest fan of modern society, but I would rather my children be raised in a London, Paris, or Vienna vs a Haiti.

[Anti Federalist]

It's odd when you think of it. People like me who are picky about immigration are mislabeled as haters, but when you get right down to it with some open border types, they really have a pathological hatred towards European people and societies to the point where they want to burn it all down. I am not the biggest fan of modern society, but I would rather my children be raised in a London, Paris, or Vienna vs a Haiti.

They have been indoctrinated, since they were old enough to understand, that their person, their culture and what their grandfathers built was evil, and all needs to be wiped out.

[Anti Federalist]

Oh, si si , we luvvv Ameriga...

https://www.infowars.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/flag.jpg

[RJB]

Oh, si si , we luvvv Ameriga...

https://www.infowars.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/flag.jpg

In the past it was a burning cross on a black man's property. Is this what Americans can expect on our front lawns in the future?

[CaptUSA]

Maybe I'm just being naive, but I find myself drawn to trying to defend the west, even as the entire world seeks to destroy it and what it stands for.

I would argue that many in third world countries probably feel the same way about "the West". Could this be yet another sign that our foreign "interventions" are blowing back? It seems a little disingenuous to pick up in the middle of the story. Not saying that you're doing this, but many in the xenophobic right seem to be missing that point. Our drug war and the endless chain of puppet regimes is causing chaos all over. It's natural for people to respond to that. People will always respond to incentives.

Personally, I'd like legal immigration to be much easier, but I also want the welfare state to end and the drug war and foreign interventions to stop. If we did those things, I doubt immigration would even be a problem any more. But that's not where we're at right now. So what do we do? Our government has caused all sorts of problems and now they'll want more government force to "solve" them??

We're not going to solve them with any show of force. Unfortunately, this display needs to be dispersed. So we've got a nice little catch 22 that the government can use as a political wedge issue and we'll NEVER get to the root of the problem. In the past, governments used to put heads on stakes at the borders to warn potential invaders. I wonder if we could use our own politicians' heads or if that would only embolden the invaders??

[Ender]

I would argue that many in third world countries probably feel the same way about "the West". Could this be yet another sign that our foreign "interventions" are blowing back? It seems a little disingenuous to pick up in the middle of the story. Not saying that you're doing this, but many in the xenophobic right seem to be missing that point. Our drug war and the endless chain of puppet regimes is causing chaos all over. It's natural for people to respond to that. People will always respond to incentives.

Personally, I'd like legal immigration to be much easier, but I also want the welfare state to end and the drug war and foreign interventions to stop. If we did those things, I doubt immigration would even be a problem any more. But that's not where we're at right now. So what do we do? Our government has caused all sorts of problems and now they'll want more government force to "solve" them??

We're not going to solve them with any show of force. Unfortunately, this display needs to be dispersed. So we've got a nice little catch 22 that the government can use as a political wedge issue and we'll NEVER get to the root of the problem. In the past, governments used to put heads on stakes at the borders to warn potential invaders. I wonder if we could use our own politicians' heads or if that would only embolden the invaders??

Exactly.

And the whole immigrant "invasion" of Europe is an alphabet operation- all part of the grand scheme.

Here's a very interesting article from 2015 on that very subject.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/09/anne-williamson/mass-migration-madness/

[AuH20]

1054209757773488129

[AuH20]

These pricks want a confrontation at the US border for TV purposes.

[CaptUSA]

These pricks want a confrontation at the US border for TV purposes.

Yes. Yes, they do. Preferable to knocking a couple of buildings down, I guess. Blowback, nonetheless.

The more immediate question is what can we possibly do about it that won't make things worse??

[AuH20]

Yes. Yes, they do. Preferable to knocking a couple of buildings down, I guess. Blowback, nonetheless.

The more immediate question is what can we possibly do about it that won't make things worse??

The Mexican authorities need to prevent this from happening. Trump needs to pull every diplomatic lever over their head. They can't be allowed to stage an incident at the border.

[AuH20]

And with most welfare cases, you hit them in their most vulnerable area....

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/10/national-emergency-president-trump-announces-he-will-cut-off-central-american-aid-as-migrant-caravan-marches-to-u-s/

1054356145798856704

[AuH20]

The democrats are attempting a risky calculation here to mobilize their base, in that this type of maniacal lawlessness majorly turns off independents.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

If Trump blinks, he'll look weak. If he sends the military to the border and violence ensues, he'll look brutal. This is a pretty well-played move from the left, though Trump might be able to spin it to his advantage to finally build the wall. Mass acceptance of flag-burning peasants who don't speak English is something you find on the coasts and few other places.

[homahr]

By definition, the brown folks south of the border are part of western civilization. Spanish is a Western Romance language and they are mostly Roman Catholic, a western religion focused on strong families and pro-life as well.

[CaptUSA]

If Trump blinks, he'll look weak. If he sends the military to the border and violence ensues, he'll look brutal. This is a pretty well-played move from the left, though Trump might be able to spin it to his advantage to finally build the wall. Mass acceptance of flag-burning peasants who don't speak English is something you find on the coasts and few other places.

These things tend to develop a life of their own...

I expect you'll see a Mexican standoff at the US border that may last months. It'll be a "building tragedy" that will play out on our TV screens to increasing ratings, I'm sure. This is Trump's 911. Only that it is a slow-building event.

[AuH20]

These things tend to develop a life of their own...

I expect you'll see a Mexican standoff at the US border that may last months. It'll be a "building tragedy" that will play out on our TV screens to increasing ratings, I'm sure. This is Trump's 911. Only that it is a slow-building event.

The new Civil Rights movement. These manipulating scumbags have been planning this for months.

[homahr]

These things tend to develop a life of their own...

I expect you'll see a Mexican standoff at the US border that may last months. It'll be a "building tragedy" that will play out on our TV screens to increasing ratings, I'm sure. This is Trump's 911. Only that it is a slow-building event.

Maybe we can cordon off the brown folks in a little enclave on the border and bomb them periodically like with Gaza.

[AuH20]

The barbarians are at the gates, just the like the decadent Romans found out. The country dies from the inside years earlier from engineered socialist rot and then the scavengers rush in, to pick the carcass clean.

[CaptUSA]

The new Civil Rights movement. These manipulating scumbags have been planning this for months.

Are you talking about the CIA??

[CaptUSA]

Maybe we can cordon off the brown folks in a little enclave on the border and bomb them periodically like with Gaza.

Oh, let's hope not. You think the blowback is bad now?!

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

By definition, the brown folks south of the border are part of western civilization. Spanish is a Western Romance language and they are mostly Roman Catholic, a western religion focused on strong families and pro-life as well.
No. Western civilization refers to the remnant of Christendom that has continuity with classical civilization, back to Greece and Rome. The part that had the Reformation and the Enlightenment. It's the difference between Enlightened Absolutism and Czarist Absolutism. Being Catholic doesn't make you Western. Eastern Orthodox Russia is Christian, but they are not Western.

[AuH20]

Are you talking about the CIA??

I wouldn't be surprised by anything, given what we know about this system of oppression.

[UWDude]

Maybe we can cordon off the brown folks in a little enclave on the border and bomb them periodically like with Gaza.

Just like Hitler did when all the Jews were trying to force their way into Germany in 1934.

[Ender]

Are you talking about the CIA??

All this immigration ruse is a setup by the alphabets.

No one likes to mention all the US meddling in Central & South America as well as the ME. Been going on for ages.

[homahr]

Just like Hitler did when all the Jews were trying to force their way into Germany in 1934.

Yep, exactly.

[CaptUSA]

All this immigration ruse is a setup by the alphabets.

No one likes to mention all the US meddling in Central & South America as well as the ME. Been going on for ages.

I'm of the opinion that natural, non-violent immigration is a good thing. It's made up of millions of incomprehensible individual decisions based on natural occurrences like market fluctuations, weather changes, or some other natural input. People responding to those natural incentives is a good thing and governments should not get in the way of that. They do so at their own peril and to the detriment of not only the immigrants, but the indigenous population.

But what we're seeing here is anything but natural. It was caused by governments (mostly ours, in this case). When the artificial stimuli are created and people respond, there is a tendency to request MORE governance of the situation which will (and has already) lead to violence.

I wish I had the answer on how to stop it, but it's like trying to stop a train by tugging on the caboose.

[CCTelander]

I'm of the opinion that natural, non-violent immigration is a good thing. It's made up of millions of incomprehensible individual decisions based on natural occurrences like market fluctuations, weather changes, or some other natural input. People responding to those natural incentives is a good thing and governments should not get in the way of that. They do so at their own peril and to the detriment of not only the immigrants, but the indigenous population.

But what we're seeing here is anything but natural. It was caused by governments (mostly ours, in this case). When the artificial stimuli are created and people respond, there is a tendency to request MORE governance of the situation which will (and has already) lead to violence.

I wish I had the answer on how to stop it, but it's like trying to stop a train by tugging on the caboose.


The only way to stop it is to eliminate the root cause.

[AuH20]

The only way to stop it is to eliminate the root cause.

The USSA (namely the federal government) needs to die. Destroy the village, in order to save it. You'll see how fast the parasites depart, when the scam evaporates.

[Valli6]

Maybe they'll use non-lethal deterrents this time.

LRAD (Long Range Acoustic Device)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK50NRv-4ys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK50NRv-4ys

ADS (Active Denial System)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzG4oEutPbA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzG4oEutPbA

[Ender]

I'm of the opinion that natural, non-violent immigration is a good thing. It's made up of millions of incomprehensible individual decisions based on natural occurrences like market fluctuations, weather changes, or some other natural input. People responding to those natural incentives is a good thing and governments should not get in the way of that. They do so at their own peril and to the detriment of not only the immigrants, but the indigenous population.

But what we're seeing here is anything but natural. It was caused by governments (mostly ours, in this case). When the artificial stimuli are created and people respond, there is a tendency to request MORE governance of the situation which will (and has already) lead to violence.

I wish I had the answer on how to stop it, but it's like trying to stop a train by tugging on the caboose.

The only peaceful answer is to get gov out of everything:

Oil
MIC
Corporate Welfare
War
Education
Medicine
and a 1000 more, at least.

This will take Americans waking up, getting out of the Matrix & working together, instead of continually blaming the phony left/right BS.

[pcosmar]

School of the Americas Blowback.

This is your Tax dollars at work..Uncle Sam's misguided children are returning home.

[CCTelander]

The only peaceful answer is to get gov out of everything:

Oil
MIC
Corporate Welfare
War
Education
Medicine
and a 1000 more, at least.

This will take Americans waking up, getting out of the Matrix & working together, instead of continually blaming the phony left/right BS.


There doesn't seem to be much interest in that within the political wing of the so-called "liberty movement" nowadays. Fortunately, there are other wings moving ahead full speed on it.

[dannno]

The only peaceful answer is to get gov out of everything:

Oil
MIC
Corporate Welfare
War
Education
Medicine
and a 1000 more, at least.

This will take Americans waking up, getting out of the Matrix & working together, instead of continually blaming the phony left/right BS.

You're right, until everybody in American wakes up, there is nothing we can do to make the country better :rolleyes:

Rand Paul may as well pack up and go home..

[Zippyjuan]

1054209757773488129

Twenty miles a day- 2000 miles, and he thinks they will be here next week?


and yet I guarantee they will all miraculously appear at our border right at midterm election week.

[dannno]

Twenty miles a day- 2000 miles, and he thinks they will be here next week?

Ya, they will take George Soros' buses up there and pretend they walked.

Then they can drop them off and use the buses to get illegals to their polling locations on election day.

[dannno]

Some estimates are 10,000 migrants now, and possibly 20,000 by the time they reach the border.

[Zippyjuan]

Ya, they will take George Soros' buses up there and pretend they walked.

Then they can drop them off and use the buses to get illegals to their polling locations on election day.

Last date for citizens to register to vote is passed. They won't walk 2000 miles and get citizenship and be registered in time.

[dannno]

Last date for citizens to register to vote is passed. They won't walk 2000 miles and get citizenship and be registered in time.

Order of operations.. (drop them off near the border - then use the buses to get illegals to their polling locations)

[shakey1]

All this immigration ruse is a setup by the alphabets.

No one likes to mention all the US meddling in Central & South America as well as the ME. Been going on for ages.

Yep... same script, different location... our very own PTB brought this upon us.

[CaptUSA]

The only peaceful answer is to get gov out of everything:

Oil
MIC
Corporate Welfare
War
Education
Medicine
and a 1000 more, at least.

This will take Americans waking up, getting out of the Matrix & working together, instead of continually blaming the phony left/right BS.

So, more bombs, then???

[CaptUSA]

Maybe they'll use non-lethal deterrents this time.

Maybe they can get an emergency playing of the World Cup before the election? That'll stop 'em in their tracks.

[nobody's_hero]

It's odd when you think of it. People like me who are picky about immigration are mislabeled as haters, but when you get right down to it with some open border types, they really have a pathological hatred towards European people and societies to the point where they want to burn it all down. I am not the biggest fan of modern society, but I would rather my children be raised in a London, Paris, or Vienna vs a Haiti.

Nailed it.

[Swordsmyth]

By definition, the brown folks south of the border are part of western civilization. Spanish is a Western Romance language and they are mostly Roman Catholic, a western religion focused on strong families and pro-life as well.
Communism came out of western civilization too and that is what they are bringing here, pardon me if I object.

[Swordsmyth]

Yep, exactly.

And then he bombed Pearl Harbor.

:rolleyes:

[nobody's_hero]

Maybe we can cordon off the brown folks in a little enclave on the border and bomb them periodically like with Gaza.

NPC: Run CryRacism!.exe/

[Swordsmyth]

You're right, until everybody in American wakes up, there is nothing we can do to make the country better :rolleyes:

Rand Paul may as well pack up and go home..
"All or Nothing" is a manipulation designed to get you to accept nothing, those who push it are shills or useful idiots.

[Swordsmyth]

School of the Americas Blowback.

This is your Tax dollars at work..Uncle Sam's misguided children are returning home.

"The empire did bad things to people so you little people should just shut up and take their punishment like good little whipping boys"

[homahr]

And then he bombed Pearl Harbor.

:rolleyes:

He sure did.

[Zippyjuan]

And then he bombed Pearl Harbor.

:rolleyes:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVY7w9DqZ_A

[homahr]

"The empire did bad things to people so you little people should just shut up and take their punishment like good little whipping boys"

So posting on RPF is the punishment?

[Swordsmyth]

So posting on RPF is the punishment?

Letting the invaders in is the punishment that we are being told to accept.

[CaptUSA]

"The empire did bad things to people so you little people should just shut up and take their punishment like good little whipping boys"

Or punish the people who pushed such policies. Somehow, though, those folks always elude the blame. Oh well, let's use your analogy, "The empire used their power to do bad things to people, so we need to give them more power!"

[Swordsmyth]

Or punish the people who pushed such policies. Somehow, though, those folks always elude the blame. Oh well, let's use your analogy, "The empire used their power to do bad things to people, so we need to give them more power!"
We are not giving them more power, they already have the necessary power, we are demanding that they do their legitimate job and we also demand that they stop causing problems.

They want us to let the invaders in because that will give them more power and people like you are helping them.

[CCTelander]

"All or Nothing" is a manipulation designed to get you to accept nothing, those who push it are shills or useful idiots.


And settling for crumbs is a great way to ensure that you only ever get crumbs.

You never get more than you demand in any kind of adversarial negotiation. Most times you get less. Therefore, the only way to ensure that you get as much as you possibly can is to always demand more, offen much more, than you actually want, or think you can achieve at the time. The "right," in spite of seeing this fact played out over and over again by their enemies, has never bothered to learn this lesson. Instead, they repeatedly denegrate as "purists" and "impractical dreamers" those among them actually trying to apply it. That's one of the major reasons why they so consistently lose, and will likely continue to do so.

[Swordsmyth]

And settling for crumbs is a great way to ensure that you only ever get crumbs.

You never get more than you demand in any kind of adversarial negotiation. Most times you get less. Therefore, the only way to ensure that you get as much as you possibly can is to always demand more, offen much more, than you actually want, or think you can achieve at the time. The "right," in spite of seeing this fact played out over and over again by their enemies, has never bothered to learn this lesson. Instead, they repeatedly denegrate as "purists" and "impractical dreamers" those among them actually trying to apply it. That's one of the major reasons why they so consistently lose, and will likely continue to do so.
Nobody said to settle for crumbs, you take the crumbs and then demand more, the "all or nothing" crowd wants us to throw the crumbs back.

[AuH20]

We are not giving them more power, they already have the necessary power, we are demanding that they do their legitimate job and we also demand that they stop causing problems.

They want us to let the invaders in because that will give them more power and people like you are helping them.

Here is the problem. If we don't use the government to keep them out, at some point, in the future, we will be locked in mortal combat with our new guests. That's the way color revolutions work, especially when the numbers accumulate on their side. We will end up like the Boers.

Angry minorities that have been ginned up by the global MSM to hate Whitey and take their stuff. That's where we are.

[Swordsmyth]

Here is the problem. If we don't use the government to keep them out, at some point, in the future, we will be locked in mortal combat with our new guests. That's the way color revolutions work, especially when the numbers accumulate on their side. We will end up like the Boers.
And the open borders crowd will tell us we are racists who deserve it right up until they get killed.

[AuH20]

And the open borders crowd will tell us we are racists who deserve it right up until they get killed.

They'll eventually kill or imprison the ancaps and the 'Big L' libertarians too. No one is safe. This isn't a war of my choosing. But they keep pushing with these useful idiots. Weaponizing minorities is one of the most evil tactics in their playbook, because when we finally defend ourselves, the racism allegations will fly.

[Anti Federalist]

Yes. Yes, they do. Preferable to knocking a couple of buildings down, I guess. Blowback, nonetheless.

The more immediate question is what can we possibly do about it that won't make things worse??

I'm open to suggestions.

I've made it clear what I think should be done.

[Anti Federalist]

Maybe we can cordon off the brown folks in a little enclave on the border and bomb them periodically like with Gaza.

As good a solution as any, Ed, if we're gonna play that game.

[Anti Federalist]

Some estimates are 10,000 migrants now, and possibly 20,000 by the time they reach the border.

Nailed it:


They are doing what an invading army does: carries it's standard before them.

I would not be surprised to see this turn into a mighty host of 50,000 or maybe more by the time they wend their way through Mexico.

All carrying the banners of the invaders.

So, what are you prepared to do about it?

[Anti Federalist]

Here is the problem. If we don't use the government to keep them out, at some point, in the future, we will be locked in mortal combat with our new guests. That's the way color revolutions work, especially when the numbers accumulate on their side. We will end up like the Boers.

Angry minorities that have been ginned up by the global MSM to hate Whitey and take their stuff. That's where we are.

Yup, this.

At this point, arguing about why the engine room is flooding and the ship is sinking is pretty pointless.

It's time to put on life jackets and man the boats.

[phill4paul]

Yup, this.

At this point, arguing about why the engine room is flooding and the ship is sinking is pretty pointless.

It's time to put on life jackets and man the boats.

Less than lethal if possible. Lethal if necessary. If there are no borders there is only a hunk of land up for grabs by those that WILL use force to subjugate sooner than later.

Don't want government to be involved? Fine. Then let citizens do it. No standard military or National guard needed. Plenty of average citizens and militias would take care of the problem if given free leeway up to, and including, lethal force.

[CaptUSA]

This could get interesting. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/hurricane-willa-category-5-mexico-latest-track-path-weather-forecast-today-live-updates-2018-10-22/

[UWDude]

School of the Americas Blowback.

This is your Tax dollars at work..Uncle Sam's misguided children are returning home.

Gotta put the mercenary losers somewhere.

ISIS and AL Queada talked about Americas uncounted "brown" war dead in Iraq. They weren't official Military, but they were mercenary. Bunch of Joses and Marcoses fighting for America, in Iraq, but not as soldiers. As mercenaries. Not even counted as contractors. Black budget "oops where did $3 trillion penatgon dollars go?" mercenaries.

Now America is losing in Syria, so the mercenaries are coming home. That is what Europe is all about. Europe now needs to take in its failed mercenaries, or become the target of ISIS. DO DONT DAMNED.

And MS-13 has tons of mercenaries for sale, from the cartel wars. So does FARC and all the school of the Americas. All of them can be convinced to fight for the US.

Anyways, Trump should give a shoot-to-kill all men order, women and children are allowed to cross. First nuts and sticks to cross the border gets picked.
One sniper rifled dead man, and nobody else dares come across, or they show their true colors, and we get this show started.

[CaptUSA]

Less than lethal if possible. Lethal if necessary. If there are no borders there is only a hunk of land up for grabs by those that WILL use force to subjugate sooner than later.

Don't want government to be involved? Fine. Then let citizens do it. No standard military or National guard needed. Plenty of average citizens and militias would take care of the problem if given free leeway up to, and including, lethal force.

You know... this may be the best idea yet. An organized counter response. Of citizens. That’ll really throw a monkey wrench into the plans.

[UWDude]

You know... this may be the best idea yet. An organized counter response. Of citizens. That’ll really throw a monkey wrench into the plans.

An ambush of the nationalists in the making. The southwest is surely surrounded.

Nationalists all be out in the border region, while the sleepers activate.

It must be a military operation. They can mobilize to other areas in case of sudden outbreak of violence.

A mercenary army is surely marching towards the border. Fast and Furious. Why? Arm them. That's why. Still, Texas? Bad place to try to play, or is it? Powderkeg. That's the whole point.

[phill4paul]

You know... this may be the best idea yet. An organized counter response. Of citizens. That’ll really throw a monkey wrench into the plans.

It's how it should be handled. We had a member here, I think Deborah K, that used to go and patrol personal property as part of a militia. Border sheriff's should deputize volunteers that offer their services. The problem is citizens, including landowners, and militias don't get legal protections. Change that and you change everything.

[Anti Federalist]

You know... this may be the best idea yet. An organized counter response. Of citizens. That’ll really throw a monkey wrench into the plans.

I'm willing to report for duty.

[Anti Federalist]

It's how it should be handled. We had a member here, I think Deborah K, that used to go and patrol personal property as part of a militia. Border sheriff's should deputize volunteers that offer their services. The problem is citizens, including landowners, and militias don't get legal protections. Change that and you change everything.

One EO could change that.

We are the "unorganized militia", which is a duly recognized and legal component of the defense structure of the United States.

POTUS is the CinC of the unorganized militia.

[phill4paul]

Gotta put the mercenary losers somewhere.

ISIS and AL Queada talked about Americas uncounted "brown" war dead in Iraq. They weren't official Military, but they were mercenary. Bunch of Joses and Marcoses fighting for America, in Iraq, but not as soldiers. As mercenaries. Not even counted as contractors. Black budget "oops where did $3 trillion penatgon dollars go?" mercenaries.

Now America is losing in Syria, so the mercenaries are coming home. That is what Europe is all about. Europe now needs to take in its failed mercenaries, or become the target of ISIS. DO DONT DAMNED.

And MS-13 has tons of mercenaries for sale, from the cartel wars. So does FARC and all the school of the Americas. All of them can be convinced to fight for the US.

Anyways, Trump should give a shoot-to-kill all men order, women and children are allowed to cross. First nuts and sticks to cross the border gets picked.
One sniper rifled dead man, and nobody else dares come across, or they show their true colors, and we get this show started.

Put that way a wall might seem...humane?

[phill4paul]

One EO could change that.

We are the "unorganized militia", which is a duly recognized and legal component of the defense structure of the United States.

POTUS is the CinC of the unorganized militia.

Yup. But, Trump doesn't have the balls for it.


I'm willing to report for duty.

I'd spend a weeks vacation time and pay. Armed, willing and able.

[TheCount]

Are you talking about the CIA??

No. He means da jooooooooooooooooos.

[CaptUSA]

Yup. But, Trump doesn't have the balls for it.



I'd spend a weeks vacation time and pay. Armed, willing and able.

I’m liking where this is heading. There have to be groups with influence. A few mentions in the media, and this kind of effort could explode.


Oath Keepers? Texas Light Foot? 3 Percenters? I don’t know. But I can see a whole lot of us volunteering to repel an invasion. And it might serve to show that we don’t need government to do our work for us.

[r3volution 3.0]

I'm still trying to figure out where "fuck it, throw open the gates" factors into this. If someone comes to your house and robs you while you're away, you just say, "damn it, I'll just leave my door unlocked from now on if that's the way it's gonna be. it's no use!"

To put it simply - with friends like my fellow Europeans, who needs enemies?

Illiterate immigrants aren't stealing a third of my income every year.

They aren't the ones responsible for converting a vibrant civilization to socialism.

The fault, dear Brutus...

[Swordsmyth]

To put it simply - with friends like my fellow Europeans, who needs enemies?

Illiterate immigrants aren't stealing a third of my income every year.

They aren't the ones responsible for converting a vibrant civilization to socialism.
They will steal everything you own and reduce civilization to outright communism and then barbarism.



The fault, dear Brutus...
Perhaps the fault lies with ourselves but your kind will make things even worse.

[Valli6]

Ron Paul discussing this today on Ron Paul Liberty Report - now!
Very interesting...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTbEszeLh88

[jmdrake]

You are confused, civilization is built on top of savagery, savagery was required to tame savagery, if we lose contact with our savage side we will lose the foundation we have built civilization on top of.

The French were able trade with the indigenous Americans without savagery. Same with Roger Williams' purchase of Rhode Island. The savage Roman Empire was conquered through the opposite of savagery, namely Christian idealism. When the barbarian Germanic hordes overran the christianized Roman Empire, they soon became converted to it.

[CaptUSA]

Ron Paul discussing this today on Ron Paul Liberty Report - now!
Very interesting...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTbEszeLh88

Ron Paul nails it again. (despite the glitches)

Lays out what caused this mess, but addresses what to do about the problem that they've left us with.

Opposed to a military response. He likes a civilian border patrol. Similar to what Phill4Paul suggested and what several of us seconded.

It's amazing that those who really understand liberty tend to reach similar conclusions. This should really be a must-watch for everyone. Thanks for sharing.

[RJB]

We seem to be ignoring the original question:
Why caravan migrants wave Honduran flags and burn tires in front of U.S. embassy
Will our nation be better with people who burn tires and our flag while marching under a foreign flag? Is this how you show respect for those who you wish to impose on these days? If so, my parents raised me improperly.

[shakey1]

Ron Paul nails it again. (despite the glitches)

Lays out what caused this mess, but addresses what to do about the problem that they've left us with.

Opposed to a military response. He likes a civilian border patrol. Similar to what Phill4Paul suggested and what several of us seconded.

It's amazing that those who really understand liberty tend to reach similar conclusions. This should really be a must-watch for everyone. Thanks for sharing.

Impressive indeed.

[AuH20]

1052629557826736129

[CCTelander]

The French were able trade with the indigenous Americans without savagery. Same with Roger Williams' purchase of Rhode Island. The savage Roman Empire was conquered through the opposite of savagery, namely Christian idealism. When the barbarian Germanic hordes overran the christianized Roman Empire, they soon became converted to it.


Fear can turn people into savages. There seems to be a lot of that going on around here lately. Sad and disappointing. I thought "liberty advocates" at least aspired to better.

[AuH20]

Fear can turn people into savages. There seems to be a lot of that going on around here lately. Sad and disappointing. I thought "liberty advocates" at least aspired to better.

Liberty advocates are surrounded on all sides and destined for extermination, given the current trends. We're just trying to prevent this from occurring. As long as we can keep the hostile elements from interacting and trampling over us, we should be ok.

Think about all our enemies for a second.

The domestics
The police
The Deep State

And now add these crypto communists emigrating from Latin America to the list.

[Swordsmyth]

The French were able trade with the indigenous Americans without savagery. Same with Roger Williams' purchase of Rhode Island. The savage Roman Empire was conquered through the opposite of savagery, namely Christian idealism. When the barbarian Germanic hordes overran the christianized Roman Empire, they soon became converted to it.
Civilization is built on rules, there always have been and always will be people who won't follow the rules and civilization can only survive if it is willing to use force against those who won't follow the rules, that is the foundation of savagery that civilization rests on.

[angelatc]

It's how it should be handled. We had a member here, I think Deborah K, that used to go and patrol personal property as part of a militia. Border sheriff's should deputize volunteers that offer their services. The problem is citizens, including landowners, and militias don't get legal protections. Change that and you change everything.

Militias are bad though. Don't you watch TV?

[Cleaner44]

REMEMBER THE ALAMO!

[nobody's_hero]

To put it simply - with friends like my fellow Europeans, who needs enemies?

Illiterate immigrants aren't stealing a third of my income every year.

They aren't the ones responsible for converting a vibrant civilization to socialism.

The fault, dear Brutus...

You still haven't convinced me to hate myself or my ancestry because of some socialists getting into power and screwing things up for the rest of us. —If self-loathing is your goal, which it very much seems to be these days, count me out.

[phill4paul]

Militias are bad though. Don't you watch TV?

I think Deborah K was with that redneck, misogynistic, racist, h o m o -phobic, fascist, Nazi, group known as the Minutemen.

[phill4paul]

Fear can turn people into savages. There seems to be a lot of that going on around here lately. Sad and disappointing. I thought "liberty advocates" at least aspired to better.

I hardly equate drawing a border line and saying "Unless by legal methods you WILL NOT cross." to savagery. There is a simple way not to be hosed, CS sprayed, beaten or shot. It's called respecting the others boundaries. This means when you are told not to cross the line you turn away. It really is that simple.

[Ender]

I hardly equate drawing a border line and saying "Unless by legal methods you WILL NOT cross." to savagery. There is a simple way not to be hosed, CS sprayed, beaten or shot. It's called respecting the others boundaries. This means when you are told not to cross the line you turn away. It really is that simple.

Maybe we should start with holding the US gov responsible. They have crossed the line in most of the Central & South American countries w/o asking. Coups, the WoD, & the WoT are pushed by the country we live in to further the Empire- and people here are still hosed, CS sprayed, beaten or shot by TPTB.

Iran has never been forgiven for taking back it's country- and now all the western countries we've been meddling with for a century+ are the bad guys. But instead of holding .gov responsilbe, everyone seems to want MORE .gov to solve the issues .gov is responsible for.

[phill4paul]

Maybe we should start with holding the US gov responsible. They have crossed the line in most of the Central & South American countries w/o asking. Coups, the WoD, & the WoT are pushed by the country we live in to further the Empire- and people here are still hosed, CS sprayed, beaten or shot by TPTB.

Iran has never been forgiven for taking back it's country- and now all the western countries we've been meddling with for a century+ are the bad guys. But instead of holding .gov responsilbe, everyone seems to want MORE .gov to solve the issues .gov is responsible for.

Who doesn't hold the .gov responsible, exactly? Are you saying that I do not? But, the resolve of that particular problem does not mean allowing unfettered access through our borders. It doesn't mean allowing a caravan of 15k South Americans through the border, nor does it mean allowing tankers full of Iraqis to dock and walk.
And I've already made my proposal that doesn't involve .gov. Let armed citizens handle it.

[CaptUSA]

Civilization is built on rules, there always have been and always will be people who won't follow the rules and civilization can only survive if it is willing to use force against those who won't follow the rules, that is the foundation of savagery that civilization rests on.

Do you even read your posts, Eichmann?

Damn.


There are a few rules that protect liberty; and there are lots and lots of "rules" that violate it. The distinction is pretty damned important.

[CaptUSA]

And I've already made my proposal that doesn't involve .gov. Let armed citizens handle it.

This is really the best solution here. I think we all recognize a government-created problem when we see it. Using government to fix it is a bad, bad idea.

So, maybe we can start a split thread in the activism forum?? I have some vacation time saved up - when and where do we meet? What are the CCW laws like in TX for out-of-staters? How can we get this to snowball??

[Swordsmyth]

Do you even read your posts, Eichmann?

Damn.


There are a few rules that protect liberty; and there are lots and lots of "rules" that violate it. The distinction is pretty damned important.
And border controls are rules that protect liberty, Lenin.

[phill4paul]

This is really the best solution here. I think we all recognize a government-created problem when we see it. Using government to fix it is a bad, bad idea.

So, maybe we can start a split thread in the activism forum?? I have some vacation time saved up - when and where do we meet? What are the CCW laws like in TX for out-of-staters? How can we get this to snowball??

Well, the Minuteman project has splintered and, amid a few scandals, crashed and burned I believe. There are probably some splinter groups that you could talk to such as Arizona Border Recon: https://www.arizonaborderrecon.org/ to get some ideas from:



WHO WE ARE NOT

WE ARE NOT MILITIA

Arizona Border Recon is a non-government organization. We are not affiliated with any form of government, nor are we a militia. Our objective is not to overthrow any government, or take the law into our own hands. We are not here to replace the Border Patrol. We operate within the scope of the law as citizens, by observing and reporting what we see.

We take the law very seriously, and to that end we ensure our members are knowledgeable in the applicable areas of law that govern civil rights, use of force, citizens arrest and many more. This ensures our members are acting appropriately, are safe, and provides for the individuals we come into contact with by affording them the same humane and civil treatment.

They have some good info regarding Arizona laws: http://www.arizonaborderrecon.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/AZBR-POLICY-ROE-REV12022015.pdf

I don't know if Texas has anything similar. Truth is I don't exactly know where or in which state the caravan intends to cross. My guess would have been California where they would probably be escorted through with open arms and a key to the nearest sanctuary city.

[Ender]

Who doesn't hold the .gov responsible, exactly? Are you saying that I do not? But, the resolve of that particular problem does not mean allowing unfettered access through our borders. It doesn't mean allowing a caravan of 15k South Americans through the border, nor does it mean allowing tankers full of Iraqis to dock and walk.
And I've already made my proposal that doesn't involve .gov. Let armed citizens handle it.

Sorry- that wasn't a personal remark- I was speaking collectively.

Here's Ron Paul's solution, which I agree with 1000%:


How to tackle the real immigration problem? Eliminate incentives for those who would come here to live off the rest of us, and make it easier and more rational for those who wish to come here legally to contribute to our economy. No walls, no government databases, no biometric national ID cards. But not a penny in welfare for immigrants. It’s really that simple.

Read the whole article here:http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2016/september/05/how-to-solve-the-illegal-immigration-problem/

[dannno]

Here's Ron Paul's solution, which I agree with 1000%:


Everybody here already agrees with that solution...

But since it isn't an option, and the only option seems to be allowing millions of leftist voters to come in and turn us into a completely socialist country, or protect the borders, even Ron Paul chooses protect the borders.

[shakey1]

Brownsville, TX is probably the nearest point of entry.

[phill4paul]

Sorry- that wasn't a personal remark- I was speaking collectively.

Here's Ron Paul's solution, which I agree with 1000%:



Read the whole article here:http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2016/september/05/how-to-solve-the-illegal-immigration-problem/

He voted yes to a border fence and electronic surveillance.


Voted YES on building a fence along the Mexican border.
Within 18 months, achieves operational control over U.S. land and maritime borders, including:
systematic border surveillance through more effective use of personnel and technology; and
physical infrastructure enhancements to prevent unlawful border entry
Defines "operational control" as the prevention of all unlawful U.S. entries, including entries by terrorists, other unlawful aliens, narcotics, and other contraband.
Proponents support voting YES because:

It is obvious there is no more defining issue in our Nation today than stopping illegal immigration. The most basic obligation of any government is to secure the Nation's borders. One issue in which there appears to be a consensus between the Senate and the House is on the issue of building a secure fence. So rather than wait until comprehensive legislation is enacted, we should move forward on targeted legislation which is effective and meaningful. The legislation today provides over 700 miles of two-layered reinforced fencing, and for the rest of the border provides a virtual fence, via integrated surveillance technology.

Opponents support voting NO because:

Just to build the fence is going to cost us at least $7 billion. Where is the money coming from to pay for it? How much is it going to cost to maintain this 700-mile fence? Who is going to do it? This bill contains no funding.

This bill also ignores real enforcement measures, like hiring more Border Patrol personnel, and instead builds a Berlin Wall on our southern border. So long as employers need workers in this country, and while our immigration systems impede rather than facilitate timely access of willing workers to those opportunities, undocumented immigration will never be controlled.

Walls, barriers, and military patrols will only force those immigrants to utilize ever more dangerous routes and increase the number of people who die in search of an opportunity to feed and clothe their families.

Reference: Secure Fence Act; Bill H R 6061 ; vote number 2006-446 on Sep 14, 2006

...also Voted YES on preventing tipping off Mexicans about Minuteman Project.


Voting YES on this amendment supports the Minuteman Project, a group of volunteers who have taken on surveillance of the Mexican border for illegal immigrants. The amendment states that US funds will not be used to tell the Mexican government about the whereabouts of the Minuteman Project volunteers. Proponents of the Minuteman Project say that they are volunteer citizens doing what the federal government SHOULD be doing, but has failed to do. Opponents of the Minuteman Project say that they are vigilantes at best and anti-Mexican racists at worst. The amendment states:
None of the funds made available by this Act may be used to provide a foreign government information relating to the activities of an organized volunteer civilian action group, operating in the State of California, Texas, New Mexico, or Arizona, unless required by international treaty.
The amendment's sponsor said on its behalf:
What this amendment does is it clarifies Congress' position on a Border Patrol practice or a practice of the US Government that tips off illegal immigrants as to where citizen patrols may be located.
As a response to the lawlessness along the Mexican border, a group has sprung up called the Minutemen Project, and the Minutemen Project is definitely not politically correct in Washington DC. However, they filled a void which the government was unable to fill.
There are over 7,000 volunteers in the Minutemen organization, and their help has been productive and good.
What my amendment does is simply says that the U.S. Government cannot tip off the Mexican officials as to where these folks are located. Plain and simple, nothing fancy about it. I am sure the Border Patrol will say, oh, no, we are not doing that, and yet one of the Web pages of the Secretary of Mexico had the information very explicit, and we just do not believe that is a good practice.
Reference: Department of Homeland Security appropriations; Bill HR 5441 Amendment 968 ; vote number 2006-224 on Jun 6, 2006

Voted YES on reporting illegal aliens who receive hospital treatment.
Vote to pass the bill that would require hospitals to gather and report information on possible illegal aliens before hospitals can be reimbursed for treating them. The bill would also make employers liable for the reimbursements if an undocumented employee seeks medical attention, unless the employer meets particular conditions for exemption. The bill would specify that hospitals aren't required to provide care to undocumented aliens if they can be transported to their home country without a significant chance of worsening their condition.
Reference: Undocumented Alien Emergency Medical Assistance Amendments; Bill HR 3722 ; vote number 2004-182 on May 20, 2004

http://www.ontheissues.org/TX/Ron_Paul_Immigration.htm

Some here continue to lie (not directed at you) that Ron Paul is an "open borders" advocate. He's not and he has proved it in a number of ways. He believes in border security. Knows that a nation without borders is no nation at all. His stance is more in line with mine. Allow citizens who wish to assist. Create an electronic border patrol. And IF necessary redirect the military from foreign engagements to our borders.

[RJB]

Caravan migrants carry Honduran flag...

OPEN: npc meme

run.exe: National socialism bad

run.exe: US flag racist

run.exe: Welcome flag waving brown nationalist from socialist nation

[UWDude]

An ambush of the nationalists in the making. The southwest is surely surrounded.

Nationalists all be out in the border region, while the sleepers activate.

It must be a military operation. They can mobilize to other areas in case of sudden outbreak of violence.

A mercenary army is surely marching towards the border. Fast and Furious. Why? Arm them. That's why. Still, Texas? Bad place to try to play, or is it? Powderkeg. That's the whole point.

I wrote this, and chose "nationalists" over "patriots". I wanted to say patriots, but the forces under Trump are nationalists. They carry less about the constitution than their tribalist instincts.

Legal immigrants are often staunch nationalists. They paid a lot of money and put a lot of effort into becoming legal, voting American citizens. "Politically persecuted" immigrants often make the best patriots. They fled their nations for a reason. They chose the United States of America for a reason. But some "politically persecuted" immigrants often bring the blackest of tongues with them, speaking the ways of revenge, always plotting to go back. And many are hot war, cold war, black war and dirty war veterans.

Anyways, I wanted to say patriot, but watching this civil war unfold, they aren't the patriots. They are the nationalists.
Neither are the leftists.

I watched Trump's rally in Houston about 20 minutes later, and Trump declared himself a nationalist.

[jmdrake]

Obviously, the caravan and its organizing leaders are intending to be a test case for President Trump, with a the defiant message that they'll cross the U.S. border any time they like, immigration laws be damned. They're hoping to demonstrate such a reality with huge masses of people, who will ultimately be daring the U.S. military or border guards to fire on them, the better for their leaders to cynically claim a propaganda victory over some migrant's dead body and to ensure that as the U.S. wraps itself in pretzels over its dreaded crimes against unarmed civilians should one of them be fired upon. They know they have allies - we can count on the pope, for one, making a rare condemnation of America in such a scenario, (don't worry, he'll keep ignoring Middle Eastern Christians, shortchanging Ukrainian Uniates, and betraying Chinese Catholics, as well as pretending the pervert priest crisis in the West is a matter of collective guilt, not a particular protection racket), and the congressional Democrats, too. After a brouhaha is established and the media acts as their propaganda handmaid, the border will be free.


So if the plan is to score a propaganda victory by the U.S. overreacting, why do what they want? Osama Bin Laden stated his plan was to bankrupt the U.S. by getting us to invade a lot of countries and have a multitude of mini Vietnams. If that was the plan, it seems to be working brilliantly. Trump cutting off aid to Honduras and Guatemala was the right move. Demanding that Mexico do something was the right move. By yesterday's estimate the caravan is still at least 44 days out. It will not get to the border before the midterms. There is plenty of time for sane solutions.

[Ender]

Pretty good analysis by Ron & Daniel:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=321&v=TTbEszeLh88

[jmdrake]

Pretty good analysis by Ron & Daniel:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=321&v=TTbEszeLh88

Ron Paul. The man without fear.

@14:30 Ron Paul addresses the military option. @15:30 "If they were marching up here with rifles and things and they were going to take over that's a different story. This is not a military confrontation. This is social. And I think it should be dealt with border patrol. Civilian types. We've had border patrols before. We don't have the military on our border. We try to prevent that. So I would be opposed to the military. I would put them in a line. We will process you and see what we can do for you. We will check you out.
.....
Some will say Ron you are giving up on the military option to easily. But I just don't like it. Especially when part of the problem was created by our welfarism and foreign policy.


Note, earlier in the video Ron discussed the Hillary Clinton military coup in Honduras and an earlier CIA coup in Guatemala.

I 100% endorse the Ron Paul position.

[AuH20]

1054890141423153152

[homahr]

As good a solution as any, Ed, if we're gonna play that game.

Good opportunity for the military industry.

[AuH20]

Ron Paul. The man without fear.

@14:30 Ron Paul addresses the military option. @15:30 "If they were marching up here with rifles and things and they were going to take over that's a different story. This is not a military confrontation. This is social. And I think it should be dealt with border patrol. Civilian types. We've had border patrols before. We don't have the military on our border. We try to prevent that. So I would be opposed to the military. I would put them in a line. We will process you and see what we can do for you. We will check you out.
.....
Some will say Ron you are giving up on the military option to easily. But I just don't like it. Especially when part of the problem was created by our welfarism and foreign policy.


Note, earlier in the video Ron discussed the Hillary Clinton military coup in Honduras and an earlier CIA coup in Guatemala.

I 100% endorse the Ron Paul position.

Until the civilian border patrol is sued out of existence by democrat connected lawyers.

[jmdrake]

Until the civilian border patrol is sued out of existence by democrat connected lawyers.

I think you don't understand what the word "civilian" means. Civilian just means non military. ICE is civilian. And government courts can't be used to sue the government out of existence. If that was possible, ICE wouldn't exist. Nice attempt at trying to match wits with Ron Paul, but you failed.

[Ender]

Ron Paul. The man without fear.

@14:30 Ron Paul addresses the military option. @15:30 "If they were marching up here with rifles and things and they were going to take over that's a different story. This is not a military confrontation. This is social. And I think it should be dealt with border patrol. Civilian types. We've had border patrols before. We don't have the military on our border. We try to prevent that. So I would be opposed to the military. I would put them in a line. We will process you and see what we can do for you. We will check you out.
.....
Some will say Ron you are giving up on the military option to easily. But I just don't like it. Especially when part of the problem was created by our welfarism and foreign policy.


Note, earlier in the video Ron discussed the Hillary Clinton military coup in Honduras and an earlier CIA coup in Guatemala.

I 100% endorse the Ron Paul position.

SAME!

[shakey1]

RP nails it. :directhit:

... it's too bad that the voice of reason almost never prevails.

[Anti Federalist]

How to tackle the real immigration problem? Eliminate incentives for those who would come here to live off the rest of us, and make it easier and more rational for those who wish to come here legally to contribute to our economy. No walls, no government databases, no biometric national ID cards. But not a penny in welfare for immigrants. It’s really that simple.

I'm all for it.

Please tell me the best way to accomplish that.

I've been in this game now for 35 years and I don't have any good answers anymore, since every choice to accomplish that goal gets shot down.

Keep in mind that we have about two weeks to do all that, that's when the first 50,000 will be at the door.

There is another field army already massing to come right behind this one.

[Anti Federalist]

So if the plan is to score a propaganda victory by the U.S. overreacting, why do what they want? Osama Bin Laden stated his plan was to bankrupt the U.S. by getting us to invade a lot of countries and have a multitude of mini Vietnams. If that was the plan, it seems to be working brilliantly. Trump cutting off aid to Honduras and Guatemala was the right move. Demanding that Mexico do something was the right move. By yesterday's estimate the caravan is still at least 44 days out. It will not get to the border before the midterms. There is plenty of time for sane solutions.

I consider armed citizens on the line telling these people to turn around and go back to wherever it is they came from, to be a sane solution.

[CaptUSA]

I consider armed citizens on the line telling these people to turn around and go back to wherever it is they came from, to be a sane solution.

Agreed wholeheartedly! But outside our little circle I'm not seeing anyone talking about an organized response. There have to be similar efforts out there - I'm certainly game to add to the numbers. I'd really like to know how/where/when to get involved in this. I'm sure there are others. Are you seeing this call anywhere else??



Seriously, folks. Could you imagine this type of response?! Something like what we're proposing could completely neuter the calls for more government. Sure, there will be a few that will try to label the effort, but these civilians will be seen as heroes among the majority of the American population. Once something like this gets rolling, I guarantee the response rate will dwarf the caravan numbers. I get excited just thinking about all the potential good that would come from this type of counter response. But how do we get it going??

[homahr]

I consider armed citizens on the line telling these people to turn around and go back to wherever it is they came from, to be a sane solution.

This may be a good solution, yet I worry about the federal response to such mobilization.

[angelatc]

Civilians are a lot more likely to open fire than the military would be.

Plus we've already seen the disdain the volunteer patrols get from both the government and the left, so i'm not buying into this sudden tolerance for them from the progs in our ranks. The only reason that the same little virus that asserts Bundy is a hick suddenly wants untrained militias on the border is for the chaos.

One of the few legitimate functions of our military is to protect the country. This is literally their job.

[UWDude]

I would put them in a line.

With what? Lectures about the N.A.P? Educate them on the importance of recognizing American laws?

The whole thing falls apart right there. These people aren't interested in getting in line and being processed.

And the most dangerous ones certainly are not.

[Anti Federalist]

Agreed wholeheartedly! But outside our little circle I'm not seeing anyone talking about an organized response. There have to be similar efforts out there - I'm certainly game to add to the numbers. I'd really like to know how/where/when to get involved in this. I'm sure there are others. Are you seeing this call anywhere else??



Seriously, folks. Could you imagine this type of response?! Something like what we're proposing could completely neuter the calls for more government. Sure, there will be a few that will try to label the effort, but these civilians will be seen as heroes among the majority of the American population. Once something like this gets rolling, I guarantee the response rate will dwarf the caravan numbers. I get excited just thinking about all the potential good that would come from this type of counter response. But how do we get it going??

I just checked Oathkeepers, they seem tied up in hurricane response in FL.

[CaptUSA]

One of the few legitimate functions of our military is to protect the country. This is literally their job.


"If they were marching up here with rifles and things and they were going to take over that's a different story. This is not a military confrontation. This is social. And I think it should be dealt with border patrol. Civilian types. We've had border patrols before. We don't have the military on our border. We try to prevent that. So I would be opposed to the military. I would put them in a line. We will process you and see what we can do for you. We will check you out." - Ron Paul

[homahr]

One of the few legitimate functions of our military is to protect the country. This is literally their job.

Military is too busy protecting ISIS from Assad, as authorized by Trump.

[CCTelander]

Ron Paul. The man without fear.

@14:30 Ron Paul addresses the military option. @15:30 "If they were marching up here with rifles and things and they were going to take over that's a different story. This is not a military confrontation. This is social. And I think it should be dealt with border patrol. Civilian types. We've had border patrols before. We don't have the military on our border. We try to prevent that. So I would be opposed to the military. I would put them in a line. We will process you and see what we can do for you. We will check you out.
.....
Some will say Ron you are giving up on the military option to easily. But I just don't like it. Especially when part of the problem was created by our welfarism and foreign policy.


Note, earlier in the video Ron discussed the Hillary Clinton military coup in Honduras and an earlier CIA coup in Guatemala.

I 100% endorse the Ron Paul position.


This characterization of what amounts to a SOCIAL issue in militaristic terms is highly suspect. It literally reeks of the kind of thing the federal government has been doing for decades now, reframing social issues in military terms in order to make militaristic solutions seem more reasonable, and acclimate people to the idea that everything can be solved with force. The War on Poverty and the War on Drugs both leap immediately to mind, and we all know how those have worked out.

I fully expect Trump, at some point, to announce a "War on Illegal Immigration," following the pattern of the WOD, and including all the wonderful expansions in the domestic police state that usually accompany such boondoggles.

[homahr]

I fully expect Trump, at some point, to announce a "War on Illegal Immigration," following the pattern of the WOD, and including all the wonderful expansions in the domestic police state that usually accompany such boondoggles.

This war could potentially create a lot of jobs.

[angelatc]

I would put them in a line. We will process you and see what we can do for you. We will check you out."_ Ron Paul

Mexico literally tried that. Mexico tried to process them, intending to give them work visas so they could legally pass through the country. They tore down and trampled the stations. Their success will only embolden them.

So what do you do when they don't passively sit down and do paperwork. And what do you propose we do when we explain that we do not offer asylum for economic reasons? Do you anticipate they will walk home?

[angelatc]

Military is too busy protecting ISIS from Assad, as authorized by Trump.

We have another division called The National Guard.

[Anti Federalist]

Mexico literally tried that. Mexico tried to process them, intending to give them work visas so they could legally pass through the country. They tore down and trampled the stations. Their success will only embolden them.

So what do you do when they don't passively sit down and do paperwork. And what do you propose we do when we explain that we do not offer asylum for economic reasons? Do you anticipate they will walk home?

This is exactly right.

Therefore: I think they will walk home if a gun is pointed in their face.

If it can be done effectively, the gun of an average citizen, defending his home, will be more effective and less subject to all the downsides that have been, correctly, pointed out by Ron and people in this thread like Ender and CCTelender.

In the end though it is going to take more than "please fill out these forms and stand in line A-9"

[CaptUSA]

Mexico literally tried that. Mexico tried to process them, intending to give them work visas so they could legally pass through the country. They tore down and trampled the stations. Their success will only embolden them.

So what do you do when they don't passively sit down and do paperwork. And what do you propose we do when we explain that we do not offer asylum for economic reasons? Do you anticipate they will walk home?

So, here's the thing... If we use the response that we are talking about, the caravan will be confronted with thousands of armed Americans. If they try to push through that, I say, "warning shots high, then aim for the legs". The mob will turn soon after that. (You see this in Israel, too.) Most of them are looking to make a political point or a better life for their families - they're not looking to be shot.

But I'd much rather see our civilians being tried in court with a stand-your-ground self-defense argument, than a military confrontation on civilians. They really have 3 options. If they don't want to do the paperwork, they'll be faced with 2 remaining options... Drop the idea or risk being killed by American citizens using the 2nd amendment as intended.

[angelatc]

This is exactly right.

Therefore: I think they will walk home if a gun is pointed in their face.

If it can be done effectively, the gun of an average citizen, defending his home, will be more effective and less subject to all the downsides that have been, correctly, pointed out by Ron and people in this thread like Ender and CCTelender.

In the end though it is going to take more than "please fill out these forms and stand in line A-9"

They are quite used to military forces on their streets. This is Honduras we're talking about, after all. I think that civilians protecting their own land is a good idea, but recent history shows that any organized effort will be ridiculed, demonized, and probably even infiltrated by the government.

Sorry, not a fan of this solution long-term.

[homahr]

They are quite used to military forces on their streets. This is Honduras we're talking about, after all. I think that civilians protecting their own land is a good idea, but recent history shows that any organized effort will be ridiculed, demonized, and probably even infiltrated by the government.


There is no probably about it; that's usually how it happens.

[jmdrake]

Civilians are a lot more likely to open fire than the military would be.


You know that ICE are civilians right?

[jmdrake]

This characterization of what amounts to a SOCIAL issue in militaristic terms is highly suspect. It literally reeks of the kind of thing the federal government has been doing for decades now, reframing social issues in military terms in order to make militaristic solutions seem more reasonable, and acclimate people to the idea that everything can be solved with force. The War on Poverty and the War on Drugs both leap immediately to mind, and we all know how those have worked out.

I fully expect Trump, at some point, to announce a "War on Illegal Immigration," following the pattern of the WOD, and including all the wonderful expansions in the domestic police state that usually accompany such boondoggles.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CCTelander again.

[PAF]

There is nothing quicker than turning off a switch.

So the republicans are worried about democrats taking the election. If the republicans (and trump) really wanted to put their money where their mouth(s) are and perhaps build the base again, they would eliminate the handouts BEFORE the election.

If the droves coming in are that critical and threatening to our country, one would think that the republican house, or Pres by EO, would take swift and immediate action to stop the welfare.

But never let a good crisis go to waste, AFTER the election to build that +$25 BILLION Wall, biometric/eVerify, etc. which the neocons are buying into hook line and sinker.

[jmdrake]

This is exactly right.

Therefore: I think they will walk home if a gun is pointed in their face.

If it can be done effectively, the gun of an average citizen, defending his home, will be more effective and less subject to all the downsides that have been, correctly, pointed out by Ron and people in this thread like Ender and CCTelender.

In the end though it is going to take more than "please fill out these forms and stand in line A-9"


They are quite used to military forces on their streets. This is Honduras we're talking about, after all. I think that civilians protecting their own land is a good idea, but recent history shows that any organized effort will be ridiculed, demonized, and probably even infiltrated by the government.

Sorry, not a fan of this solution long-term.

Question. What prevents George Soros from buying up land along the U.S. / Mexico border? If, at that point, he used his property rights to let whoever he wanted to come across and then use the public roads to go where ever they want is that fine cause....property rights?

[jmdrake]

There is nothing quicker than turning off a switch.

So the republicans are worried about democrats taking the election. If the republicans (and trump) really wanted to put their money where their mouth(s) are and perhaps build the base again, they would eliminate the handouts BEFORE the election.

If the droves coming in are that critical and threatening to our country, one would think that the republican house, or Pres by EO, would take swift and immediate action to stop the welfare.

But never let a good crisis go to waste, AFTER the election to build that +$25 BILLION Wall, biometric/eVerify, etc. which the neocons are buying into hook line and sinker.

Well said! Through fear over immigration this government will be able to finish what fear over terrorism started but couldn't quite complete. Alex Jones got me hip to face scanning cameras. When Trump implemented face scanning cameras at airports in the name of fighting illegal immigration, as opposed to terrorism......crickets.

[angelatc]

Question. What prevents George Soros from buying up land along the U.S. / Mexico border? If, at that point, he used his property rights to let whoever he wanted to come across and then use the public roads to go where ever they want is that fine cause....property rights?

Another reason I'm not a fan of the proposed solution.

Once they apply for asylum, they immediately qualify for benefits. I do not want people rewarded by the government for coming here with their hands out.

I am quite weary of being run over by the left. That's what makes it dangerous to put civilians like me on the front lines while armed.

[shakey1]

If the republicans (and trump) really wanted to put their money where their mouth(s) are and perhaps build the base again, they would eliminate the handouts BEFORE the election.

The one best solution to this dilemma that will never be considered... it's too easy... makes too much sense... no shots would need to be fired. It's beyond the comprehension of our goobermint.

[angelatc]

The one best solution to this dilemma that will never be considered... it's too easy... makes too much sense... no shots would need to be fired. It's beyond the comprehension of our goobermint.

They get voted into office in exchange for promises of handing out this cash. There is no incentive for them not to offer it.

[spudea]

This characterization of what amounts to a SOCIAL issue in militaristic terms is highly suspect. It literally reeks of the kind of thing the federal government has been doing for decades now, reframing social issues in military terms in order to make militaristic solutions seem more reasonable, and acclimate people to the idea that everything can be solved with force. The War on Poverty and the War on Drugs both leap immediately to mind, and we all know how those have worked out.

I fully expect Trump, at some point, to announce a "War on Illegal Immigration," following the pattern of the WOD, and including all the wonderful expansions in the domestic police state that usually accompany such boondoggles.

Your deliberate conflating of domestic social issues of US citizens with foreign social issues of non US citizens reveals your open borders libertarianism or no borders no nation anarchism.

[jmdrake]

They get voted into office in exchange for promises of handing out this cash. There is no incentive for them not to offer it.

But the people voting for them don't want the handouts to go to illegals. So there should be the same incentive as their is for promising to build the wall. Yes some benefits (like K-12 education) are required by supreme court rulings...which could now be overturned. Others and not required by supreme court rulings but are simply a matter of federal legislation.

See: https://www.nysenate.gov/newsroom/articles/james-l-seward/what-benefits-can-illegal-aliens-receive

Under federal law, any alien who is not a "qualified" alien is ineligible for state and local public benefits. To be qualified one has to be here under asylum, admitted for permanent residence, or fit another limited federal category.

Pass a new law that says asylum seekers do not "qualify" for welfare. Dare the democrats to vote against that.

[jmdrake]

Your deliberate conflating of domestic social issues of US citizens with foreign social issues of non US citizens reveals your open borders libertarianism or no borders no nation anarchism.

Funny. Ron Paul made the exact same statement that this is a social issue, not a military one.

[spudea]

Funny. Ron Paul made the exact same statement that this is a social issue, not a military one.

As long as they follow our law I would agree, however they have already demonstrated breaking Mexico laws and international laws for refugees claims to asylum. They have stated there intent to violate US law as well, this goes ignored by Ron Paul.

[angelatc]

Pass a new law that says asylum seekers do not "qualify" for welfare. Dare the democrats to vote against that.


No new laws are getting passed before these people get here.

[Ender]

As long as they follow our law I would agree, however they have already demonstrated breaking Mexico laws and international laws for refugees claims to asylum. They have stated there intent to violate US law as well, this goes ignored by Ron Paul.

No, what goes ignored is all the international laws that .gov has broken, causing this charade.

[Ender]

There is nothing quicker than turning off a switch.

So the republicans are worried about democrats taking the election. If the republicans (and trump) really wanted to put their money where their mouth(s) are and perhaps build the base again, they would eliminate the handouts BEFORE the election.

If the droves coming in are that critical and threatening to our country, one would think that the republican house, or Pres by EO, would take swift and immediate action to stop the welfare.

But never let a good crisis go to waste, AFTER the election to build that +$25 BILLION Wall, biometric/eVerify, etc. which the neocons are buying into hook line and sinker.
Exactly.

[Zippyjuan]

But the people voting for them don't want the handouts to go to illegals. So there should be the same incentive as their is for promising to build the wall. Yes some benefits (like K-12 education) are required by supreme court rulings...which could now be overturned. Others and not required by supreme court rulings but are simply a matter of federal legislation.

See: https://www.nysenate.gov/newsroom/articles/james-l-seward/what-benefits-can-illegal-aliens-receive

Under federal law, any alien who is not a "qualified" alien is ineligible for state and local public benefits. To be qualified one has to be here under asylum, admitted for permanent residence, or fit another limited federal category.

Pass a new law that says asylum seekers do not "qualify" for welfare. Dare the democrats to vote against that.

Once accepted for asylum, they are eligible for cash benefits. A family of two can get up to $420 a month (try to live on that) for up to eight months. Each dollar they earn reduces that by 50 cents. If they made $840 a month, they get nothing. Non-wage income (grants, gift cards, etc) count one for one against your benefits. If you got a $500 gift card, you would get no money that month.

https://www.dshs.wa.gov/esa/community-services-offices/refugee-cash-assistance


Who is eligible:
Persons who entered the United States with an immigration status that allows them to receive refugee benefits are eligible for RCA and RMA benefits as long as they meet other eligibility requirements.

Eligible immigration statuses are:

Refugee
Conditional Entrant,
Asylee,
Amerasian,
Cuban-Haitian entrant,
Certified as a victim of trafficking and their eligible family members;
Special Immigrant from Iraq or Afghanistan and their eligible family members.
If you have questions about whether or not you meet refugee status requirements, a staff member can help you. Or you can read more at http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=388-466.

To be eligible for RCA you must:
Provide documents issued by the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (CIS) verifying your immigration status and date of arrival into the U.S.
Provide the name of the voluntary agency (VOLAG) which resettled you
Meet immigration status requirements
Meet work and training requirements
Meet income and resource requirements

[CaptUSA]

Once accepted for asylum, they are eligible for cash benefits. A family of two can get up to $420 a month (try to live on that) for up to eight months. Each dollar they earn reduces that by 50 cents. If they made $840 a month, they get nothing. Non-wage income (grants, gift cards, etc) count one for one against your benefits. If you got a $500 gift card, you would get no money that month.

Um, it's not a matter of how much they get. It's a matter of how much they have to take from someone else. Namely, my grandchildren.

[Anti Federalist]

Um, it's not a matter of how much they get. It's a matter of how much they have to take from someone else. Namely, my grandchildren.

Exactly.

The ramifications of this go beyond right here right now and extend many generations into the future.

[timosman]

https://twitter.com/RepAdamSchiff/status/1054930225404903424

1054930225404903424

[AuH20]

https://i.redd.it/hft2zv9kb4u11.jpg

[Swordsmyth]

There is nothing quicker than turning off a switch.

So the republicans are worried about democrats taking the election. If the republicans (and trump) really wanted to put their money where their mouth(s) are and perhaps build the base again, they would eliminate the handouts BEFORE the election.

If the droves coming in are that critical and threatening to our country, one would think that the republican house, or Pres by EO, would take swift and immediate action to stop the welfare.

But never let a good crisis go to waste, AFTER the election to build that +$25 BILLION Wall, biometric/eVerify, etc. which the neocons are buying into hook line and sinker.

There are too many RINOs in the Senate and the stupid filibuster rules are still in place so you would need Demoncrats to vote yes on any entitlement reform bill and that isn't going to happen.

In the meantime we must stop the invasion.

[Swordsmyth]

Question. What prevents George Soros from buying up land along the U.S. / Mexico border? If, at that point, he used his property rights to let whoever he wanted to come across and then use the public roads to go where ever they want is that fine cause....property rights?
That is where national territory comes in, private citizens who happen to own border land don't get to determine immigration rules all by themselves.

[AuH20]

https://i.redd.it/77hdkyhl26u11.jpg

[Swordsmyth]

Funny. Ron Paul made the exact same statement that this is a social issue, not a military one.

And he is wrong.

[Swordsmyth]

No, what goes ignored is all the international laws that .gov has broken, causing this charade.
That doesn't go ignored but it is water under the bridge, we can't undo the past but we the common man don't have to suffer for the sins of the empire.

[CaptUSA]

In the meantime we must stop the invasion.

So, will "we" see you on the border with us repelling this invasion, or do you want the government to do it for you??

[Swordsmyth]

But the people voting for them don't want the handouts to go to illegals. So there should be the same incentive as their is for promising to build the wall. Yes some benefits (like K-12 education) are required by supreme court rulings...which could now be overturned. Others and not required by supreme court rulings but are simply a matter of federal legislation.

See: https://www.nysenate.gov/newsroom/articles/james-l-seward/what-benefits-can-illegal-aliens-receive

Under federal law, any alien who is not a "qualified" alien is ineligible for state and local public benefits. To be qualified one has to be here under asylum, admitted for permanent residence, or fit another limited federal category.

Pass a new law that says asylum seekers do not "qualify" for welfare. Dare the democrats to vote against that.

They will, they have no shame.

[CaptUSA]

And he is wrong.

So let's see... You don't like Ron Paul on economics. You don't like Ron Paul on trade. You don't like Ron Paul on immigration and border security...

Why are you here, again??

[AuH20]

The one question they can't effectively answer ........ or would rather ignore.

https://i.redd.it/3m3bgb45b0u11.jpg

[Swordsmyth]

So, will "we" see you on the border with us repelling this invasion, or do you want the government to do it for you??
I live far from the border and I have other obligations, government exists to protect me from external threats and my taxes pay them to do so, even if I was an anarchist I already am taxed so government can jolly well do the job my taxes are supposed to pay them for.

[Swordsmyth]

So let's see... You don't like Ron Paul on economics. You don't like Ron Paul on trade. You don't like Ron Paul on immigration and border security...

Why are you here, again??
Nice strawman, you don't get to take a few minor disagreements on a few particular issues and claim I "don't like" Ron Paul on whole catagories.
Ron is more right on most issues than most other politicians.

[Swordsmyth]

So if the plan is to score a propaganda victory by the U.S. overreacting, why do what they want? Osama Bin Laden stated his plan was to bankrupt the U.S. by getting us to invade a lot of countries and have a multitude of mini Vietnams. If that was the plan, it seems to be working brilliantly. Trump cutting off aid to Honduras and Guatemala was the right move. Demanding that Mexico do something was the right move. By yesterday's estimate the caravan is still at least 44 days out. It will not get to the border before the midterms. There is plenty of time for sane solutions.
We must stop the invading army or more will come in ever greater numbers until we are completely outnumbered and subjected to communism and genocide.

[Ender]

That doesn't go ignored but it is water under the bridge, we can't undo the past but we the common man don't have to suffer for the sins of the empire.

No.

It is NOT water under the bridge. The water is still strongly flowing as the US continues to meddle in Central & South America governments and taking their assets.

[Swordsmyth]

I think you don't understand what the word "civilian" means. Civilian just means non military. ICE is civilian. And government courts can't be used to sue the government out of existence. If that was possible, ICE wouldn't exist. Nice attempt at trying to match wits with Ron Paul, but you failed.
Liberal judges can put enough stupid restrictions on them that they might as well not exist.

More importantly the BP isn't big enough and even if we could get Congress to fund an expansion it would take a long time, the military must be used to stop this invasion.

[Swordsmyth]

No.

It is NOT water under the bridge. The water is still strongly flowing as the US continues to meddle in Central & South America governments and taking their assets.
It is both, to whatever extent the current invasion is blowback it is blowback from past actions, the current actions haven't produced results yet.

In any case we must protect our borders until we can stop the foreign meddling.

[Swordsmyth]

I consider armed citizens on the line telling these people to turn around and go back to wherever it is they came from, to be a sane solution.
It might work, but currently I can guarantee that the government would arrest and prosecute those armed citizens.

[Swordsmyth]

With what? Lectures about the N.A.P? Educate them on the importance of recognizing American laws?

The whole thing falls apart right there. These people aren't interested in getting in line and being processed.

And the most dangerous ones certainly are not.
And we shouldn't be letting them in at all anyway, is it somehow supposed to be better that we are conquered by foreign invaders who stood in a line than if they just crossed the border without standing in a line?

[jmdrake]

We must stop the invading army or more will come in ever greater numbers until we are completely outnumbered and subjected to communism and genocide.

Your "solutions" will make what you are trying to stop inevitable.

[Swordsmyth]

Your "solutions" will make what you are trying to stop inevitable.
LOL

[jmdrake]

But the people voting for them don't want the handouts to go to illegals. So there should be the same incentive as their is for promising to build the wall. Yes some benefits (like K-12 education) are required by supreme court rulings...which could now be overturned. Others and not required by supreme court rulings but are simply a matter of federal legislation.

See: https://www.nysenate.gov/newsroom/articles/james-l-seward/what-benefits-can-illegal-aliens-receive

Under federal law, any alien who is not a "qualified" alien is ineligible for state and local public benefits. To be qualified one has to be here under asylum, admitted for permanent residence, or fit another limited federal category.

Pass a new law that says asylum seekers do not "qualify" for welfare. Dare the democrats to vote against that.


They will, they have no shame.

Good! Then you have a much better talking point to win over moderate voters than the "They are invader trespassers that we have the right to shoot...even children" talking point.

[jmdrake]

LOL

You should read Sun Tzu the art of war. Your fearmongering actually plays into the hand of the enemy. Your "solutions" will indeed make what you are trying to stop inevitable.

[jmdrake]

Liberal judges can put enough stupid restrictions on them that they might as well not exist.

In case you have been living under a rock, liberals no longer have a majority on the U.S. Supreme Court. And "liberal" judges haven't stopped ICE from creating a constitution free zone in the border region.

[jmdrake]

No.

It is NOT water under the bridge. The water is still strongly flowing as the US continues to meddle in Central & South America governments and taking their assets.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Ender again.

[Swordsmyth]

Good! Then you have a much better talking point to win over moderate voters than the "They are invader trespassers that we have the right to shoot...even children" talking point.
And the invasion will continue until nothing can be done about it, we must secure the border now and end welfare IF we can when we can.


You should read Sun Tzu the art of war. Your fearmongering actually plays into the hand of the enemy. Your "solutions" will indeed make what you are trying to stop inevitable.
Not really.


In case you have been living under a rock, liberals no longer have a majority on the U.S. Supreme Court. And "liberal" judges haven't stopped ICE from creating a constitution free zone in the border region.
Roberts can still sell us out whenever he feels like it and have you been paying attention to the judges keeping Trump from ending DACA?

[jmdrake]

And the invasion will continue until nothing can be done about it, we must secure the border now and end welfare IF we can when we can.

So you are against a vote to cut off welfare benefits to illegal immigrants? :rolleyes: Really at this point you're just being obtuse.



Not really.


Yes really. The OP article that started this thread proves my point. According to the, the organizers are hoping for a blood bath of little kiddies. The blood bath, if it were to happen (it won't thank God), would not deter anyone. It would cause a lot of people on the fence to jump to the democrat side. And you would create the very problem you are trying to avoid.



Roberts can still sell us out whenever he feels like it and have you been paying attention to the judges keeping Trump from ending DACA?

Have you been paying attention to the fact that there is already a constitution free zone around the U.S. in the name of border security? Have you been paying attention to Trump installing face scanning cameras at airports in the name of border security? And DACA hasn't yet been ruled on the the Supreme Court.

[Swordsmyth]

So you are against a vote to cut off welfare benefits to illegal immigrants? :rolleyes: Really at this point you're just being obtuse.
Did I say that? NO
I said we must put the troops on the border and stop the caravan and then see if we can stop welfare for illegal aliens.




Yes really. The OP article that started this thread proves my point. According to the, the organizers are hoping for a blood bath of little kiddies. The blood bath, if it were to happen (it won't thank God), would not deter anyone. It would cause a lot of people on the fence to jump to the democrat side. And you would create the very problem you are trying to avoid.
That is because they are betting that we don't have the stomach to do what must be done and stick with it, if the invasion is allowed to happen they will be twice as happy, they will send ever larger "caravans" more and more often and we will lose our country faster than you could imagine.




Have you been paying attention to the fact that there is already a constitution free zone around the U.S. in the name of border security? Have you been paying attention to Trump installing face scanning cameras at airports in the name of border security? And DACA hasn't yet been ruled on the the Supreme Court.
Have you been paying attention to the fact that none of those has much to do with stopping illegal aliens?
SCOTUS hasn't ruled on DACA yet but plenty of lower courts have and Roberts can't be relied upon.

[UWDude]

You should read Sun Tzu the art of war. Your fearmongering actually plays into the hand of the enemy. Your "solutions" will indeed make what you are trying to stop inevitable.

What does that have to do with Sun Tzu?
I've read it over 20 times, and own three copies.

Now the posers are out claiming the wisdom of Sun Tzu.

[Dr.3D]

Hey, if, as they say, there is a constitution free zone 50 miles in from the border, shouldn't that mean, those crossing it, would have to get more than 50 miles beyond the border, to claim asylum?

After all, if the constitution can be ignored for U.S. citizens in that 50 mile wide strip, shouldn't the same be true for foreigners, entering the country?

[Swordsmyth]

Hey, if, as they say, there is a constitution free zone 50 miles in from the border, shouldn't that mean, those crossing it, would have to get more than 50 miles beyond the border, to claim asylum?

After all, if the constitution can be ignored for U.S. citizens in that 50 mile wide strip, shouldn't the same be true for foreigners, entering the country?
Liberals think illegal aliens have more rights than Americans.

[Anti Federalist]

The one question they can't effectively answer ........ or would rather ignore.

https://i.redd.it/3m3bgb45b0u11.jpg

I wonder if that's who Mr. Sulu wants to see displaced.

[Anti Federalist]

I live far from the border and I have other obligations, government exists to protect me from external threats and my taxes pay them to do so, even if I was an anarchist I already am taxed so government can jolly well do the job my taxes are supposed to pay them for.

I'm always willing to step up and make government look like a horse's ass when mobilized citizens can do the job better, faster and cheaper than government.

Over the years I've taken part in some of the "Cajun Navy" type water rescues.

The biggest hindrance is usually government and not the disaster.

In this case the executive can give legal cover.

And it would drive the Bolshevik left utterly totally insane if 15,000 armed citizens showed up to cover the border, or parts of it anyway, as the official arm of the unorganized militia of the United States.

If this comes to pass and you can't make it: send money, send supplies, send ammo.

[jmdrake]

Did I say that? NO
I said we must put the troops on the border and stop the caravan and then see if we can stop welfare for illegal aliens.


You responded negatively to a sensible solution.




That is because they are betting that we don't have the stomach to do what must be done and stick with it, if the invasion is allowed to happen they will be twice as happy, they will send ever larger "caravans" more and more often and we will lose our country faster than you could imagine.


Wrong. They are betting that idiots like you will do what you think must be done. Only 1/3 of the country at most would agree with a violent "solution" to this caravan. There is 1/3 that would be violently opposed to your violent solution. There is 1/3 in the middle that would be appalled at your violent solution, and they might not use violence against you, but many would vote against you. This is just stupid.




Have you been paying attention to the fact that none of those has much to do with stopping illegal aliens?
SCOTUS hasn't ruled on DACA yet but plenty of lower courts have and Roberts can't be relied upon.

So let me see if I understand you. You believe that the SCOTUS will hamper ICE, a federal agency that has been given by the courts license to operate outside the constitution in the border region, to the point where ICE can't be effective, but the same SCOTUS will give a green light to the military to kill kids? Are you REALLY that stupid?

[jmdrake]

What does that have to do with Sun Tzu?
I've read it over 20 times, and own three copies.

Now the posers are out claiming the wisdom of Sun Tzu.

"All war is based on deception." Sun Tzu.

"The good fighters of old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an opportunity of defeating the enemy. " Sun Tzu.

If you think that the art of war endorses broadcasting your next move over the internet and doing exactly what your enemy wants in the vain hope that a divided country will rally behind you for doing what most of them would find abhorrent, well you need to re-read it then. This is a propaganda war. Doing what the other side hopes you will do is not putting yourself beyond the possibility of defeat. And really, what exactly do you think, oh wise one (sarcasm) is the tactical benefit of changing rules of engagement from only killing people who pose a imminent violent threat? The "we don't kill unarmed kids" rules of engagement were in place when we pacified freaking Iraq. Yes it's a mess now because you can't indefinitely hold onto territory where the overwhelming majority of people just don't want you there.

But hey, you know everything. Obviously there is no propaganda gain if kids die. That's just my imagination. /sarc

[jmdrake]

In this case the executive can give legal cover.


You will only have legal cover if you employ sane rules of engagement. Otherwise the executive will face impeachment for real and not this fake crap that the left has been pushing.

[UWDude]

"All war is based on deception." Sun Tzu.

"The good fighters of old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an opportunity of defeating the enemy. " Sun Tzu.


is not related to this:


Your fearmongering actually plays into the hand of the enemy. Your "solutions" will indeed make what you are trying to stop inevitable.


If you think


I don't.




you need to re-read it then.

No I don't. You don't know what you are talking about. I've read it plenty of times, and will read it again. I don't need to. I do it because I love the book.




if kids die. That's just my imagination.

No kids are going to die.

It is just your imagination.

[jmdrake]

No kids are going to die.

It is just your imagination.

Okay. I see you really haven't followed the discussion. SwordSmith's position is that killing kids who illegally cross the border is justifiable. I say it's not. So this whole conversation is based on the premise that his solution, kill em all if necessary, is implemented. Understand now? Or are you just being obtuse?

[phill4paul]

Some here seem to believe that the best answer is no answer. Just let them come on in.

You can't physically stop them. Physically stopping them just gives the open borders crowd more ammo. You can't shoot them. You can't use water cannons on them. Can you imagine the horror of a 3 yr. old girl getting blasted by a water cannon? You can't use CS gas? What if an 9 month old baby were to inhale it? Or a 6 yr. old unarmed girl with asthma was to have a reaction?

Nope nothing to be done at all except let them in and in the meantime wait 200 yrs. to vote enough small government politicians in to take away benefits so they'll stop coming.

This answer is unacceptable to me.

[Anti Federalist]

Some here seem to believe that the best answer is no answer. Just let them come on in.

You can't physically stop them. Physically stopping them just gives the open borders crowd more ammo. You can't shoot them. You can't use water cannons on them. Can you imagine the horror of a 3 yr. old girl getting blasted by a water cannon? You can't use CS gas? What if an 9 month old baby were to inhale it? Or a 6 yr. old unarmed girl with asthma was to have a reaction?

Nope nothing to be done at all except let them in and in the meantime wait 200 yrs. to vote enough small government politicians in to take away benefits so they'll stop coming.

This answer is unacceptable to me.

As well it should be, because it is utterly unrealistic.

More people always equals less freedom.

That is compounded ten fold when the people in question have no concept or support of, enlightened western values of individual liberty, limited government and property rights.

[Swordsmyth]

You responded negatively to a sensible solution.
No I didn't, I said it couldn't be done fast enough if at all.





Wrong. They are betting that idiots like you will do what you think must be done. Only 1/3 of the country at most would agree with a violent "solution" to this caravan. There is 1/3 that would be violently opposed to your violent solution. There is 1/3 in the middle that would be appalled at your violent solution, and they might not use violence against you, but many would vote against you. This is just stupid.
I don't agree with your numbers and you are evading the point that if the caravan is allowed to enter there will be more and more caravans that will be ever larger.





So let me see if I understand you. You believe that the SCOTUS will hamper ICE, a federal agency that has been given by the courts license to operate outside the constitution in the border region, to the point where ICE can't be effective, but the same SCOTUS will give a green light to the military to kill kids? Are you REALLY that stupid?
SCOTUS has long refused to meddle with military operations, that is settled precedent.

[Swordsmyth]

Some here seem to believe that the best answer is no answer. Just let them come on in.

You can't physically stop them. Physically stopping them just gives the open borders crowd more ammo. You can't shoot them. You can't use water cannons on them. Can you imagine the horror of a 3 yr. old girl getting blasted by a water cannon? You can't use CS gas? What if an 9 month old baby were to inhale it? Or a 6 yr. old unarmed girl with asthma was to have a reaction?

Nope nothing to be done at all except let them in and in the meantime wait 200 yrs. to vote enough small government politicians in to take away benefits so they'll stop coming.

This answer is unacceptable to me.
Why not just send buses? :sarcasm:

[jmdrake]

I don't agree with your numbers and you are evading the point that if the caravan is allowed to enter there will be more and more caravans that will be ever larger.


There will be more and more caravans as long as our foreign policy keeps destabilizing central America. And you can disagree with my numbers all you want. They are still right. An overreaction will absolutely cause more sympathy, for the migrants from those on the fence (no pun intended) on this issue.


SCOTUS has long refused to meddle with military operations, that is settled precedent.

Not if the operations take place on U.S. soil. Are you proposing an invasion of Mexico?

[Swordsmyth]

There will be more and more caravans as long as our foreign policy keeps destabilizing central America.
There won't be if we make it clear that they will not be allowed entry.


And you can disagree with my numbers all you want. They are still right. An overreaction will absolutely cause more sympathy, for the migrants from those on the fence (no pun intended) on this issue.
People are sick and tired of the unchecked invasion and our government's weak response to it, the majority will support Trump if he finally puts our foot down and says "you shall not pass".




Not if the operations take place on U.S. soil. Are you proposing an invasion of Mexico?
SCOTUS will not interfere if martial law is declared and moving the troops a few feet into Mexico is fully justified since they are facilitating the invasion and it would simplify the legal fight that the libs are sure to start no matter what we do other than send engraved invitations to everyone south of our border.

[Anti Federalist]

There it is: the damnable "Christian" charity and pity.

The "kindness that can kill".

All coated with a patina of Obama-esque "you didn't build that" and SJWarriorisms such as "the only reason you have this is because of your privilege".

No, everything good we have was because of centuries of bloody work, effort and struggle, carried out by men who were ten times the men we are today.

Right now we're just living off the carcass, and self loathing whiners like Kasich want to invite a billion people to the feast because he feels guilty.


Kasich: ‘The Lord Doesn’t Want’ Americans Opposing the Migrant Caravan

https://www.breitbart.com/video/2018/10/25/kasich-the-lord-doesnt-want-americans-opposing-the-migrant-caravan/

25 Oct 2018

Thursday on CNN’s “Newsroom,” Gov. John Kasich (R-OH) said “the Lord” didn’t want Americans to build walls and reject the migrant caravan that is heading to the United States from Central America.

Kasich said, “Here’s what bothers me; we have a caravan coming north. We don’t want all those people coming across our border, and there are ways to deal with it. I believe if we could check those who are legitimately in need of asylum, could be vetted before they even get to the border, but we’re born in America. You know how lucky we are to be born in America and not be born in Guatemala where they would say to your daughter, you know, if you don’t do what we want, we will rape your daughter or kill your son if he’s not a drug mule? Now, they’re marching north, and it could easily have been all of us. That we’re in the caravan, that we’re marching north trying to save our families and save our children.”

He added, “We’ve got to start putting ourselves in the shoes of other people. We’ve got to start thinking about the consequences that others suffer. And if we have been spared those by the grace of God, let us be appreciative, let us count our blessings, and let us reach out to those who have less. Let’s stop putting up walls around ourselves and not understanding the plight, the trouble, and the problems of others. It is not right. And the Lord doesn’t want it, and our people at their hearts want to reach out to others. Look at what they do in these storms they go and they rescue people they don’t know. They put them in their homes. They feed them. That’s America. Not all this garbage and this division and yelling and screaming and hatred on all sides.”

[shakey1]

Kasich: ‘The Lord Doesn’t Want’ Americans Opposing the Migrant Caravan

How's it he knows this?:confused:

[jmdrake]

There won't be if we make it clear that they will not be allowed entry.

Yeah there will.



People are sick and tired of the unchecked invasion and our government's weak response to it, the majority will support Trump if he finally puts our foot down and says "you shall not pass".


Trump said he going to put a great big door in that fake wall he's being promising you. And if you think Trump is going to go for your "gun them all down if need be" approach you are just having a wet dream. This is the man who recently said he would support an assault weapons ban.



SCOTUS will not interfere if martial law is declared and moving the troops a few feet into Mexico is fully justified since they are facilitating the invasion and it would simplify the legal fight that the libs are sure to start no matter what we do other than send engraved invitations to everyone south of our border.

A) Says you

and

B) The SCOTUS has already declared it won't interfere with ICE because there is a "constitution free zone" in the border region. DACA (which has not been ruled on by the SCOTUS) is not ICE.

[AuH20]

There it is: the damnable "Christian" charity and pity.

The "kindness that can kill".

All coated with a patina of Obama-esque "you didn't build that" and SJWarriorisms such as "the only reason you have this is because of your privilege".

No, everything good we have was because of centuries of bloody work, effort and struggle, carried out by men who were ten times the men we are today.

Right now we're just living off the carcass, and self loathing whiners like Kasich want to invite a billion people to the feast because he feels guilty.


Kasich: ‘The Lord Doesn’t Want’ Americans Opposing the Migrant Caravan

https://www.breitbart.com/video/2018/10/25/kasich-the-lord-doesnt-want-americans-opposing-the-migrant-caravan/

25 Oct 2018

Thursday on CNN’s “Newsroom,” Gov. John Kasich (R-OH) said “the Lord” didn’t want Americans to build walls and reject the migrant caravan that is heading to the United States from Central America.

Kasich said, “Here’s what bothers me; we have a caravan coming north. We don’t want all those people coming across our border, and there are ways to deal with it. I believe if we could check those who are legitimately in need of asylum, could be vetted before they even get to the border, but we’re born in America. You know how lucky we are to be born in America and not be born in Guatemala where they would say to your daughter, you know, if you don’t do what we want, we will rape your daughter or kill your son if he’s not a drug mule? Now, they’re marching north, and it could easily have been all of us. That we’re in the caravan, that we’re marching north trying to save our families and save our children.”

He added, “We’ve got to start putting ourselves in the shoes of other people. We’ve got to start thinking about the consequences that others suffer. And if we have been spared those by the grace of God, let us be appreciative, let us count our blessings, and let us reach out to those who have less. Let’s stop putting up walls around ourselves and not understanding the plight, the trouble, and the problems of others. It is not right. And the Lord doesn’t want it, and our people at their hearts want to reach out to others. Look at what they do in these storms they go and they rescue people they don’t know. They put them in their homes. They feed them. That’s America. Not all this garbage and this division and yelling and screaming and hatred on all sides.”

Kasich of all people to speak for God.

[Swordsmyth]

Yeah there will.
No there won't.




Trump said he going to put a great big door in that fake wall he's being promising you. And if you think Trump is going to go for your "gun them all down if need be" approach you are just having a wet dream. This is the man who recently said he would support an assault weapons ban.
The door is for a limited number of legal immigrants and gun control has nothing to do with putting the military on the border.




The SCOTUS has already declared it won't interfere with ICE because there is a "constitution free zone" in the border region. DACA (which has not been ruled on by the SCOTUS) is not ICE.
The exact issues that the left will scream about haven't been ruled on yet and ICE and the BP aren't big enough to secure the border so the military will have to be used.

[AuH20]

Some here seem to believe that the best answer is no answer. Just let them come on in.

You can't physically stop them. Physically stopping them just gives the open borders crowd more ammo. You can't shoot them. You can't use water cannons on them. Can you imagine the horror of a 3 yr. old girl getting blasted by a water cannon? You can't use CS gas? What if an 9 month old baby were to inhale it? Or a 6 yr. old unarmed girl with asthma was to have a reaction?

Nope nothing to be done at all except let them in and in the meantime wait 200 yrs. to vote enough small government politicians in to take away benefits so they'll stop coming.

This answer is unacceptable to me.

We're at the 'break glass' stage. Nearly, everything is on the table. We need a barrier to not only use as a buffer, but as a symbol to communicate that there is 'no vacancy.' These incoming people may not have high IQs, but they will understand the very menacing structure situated in the desert.

[jmdrake]

No there won't.

Yes there will.




The door is for a limited number of legal immigrants and gun control has nothing to do with putting the military on the border.


Well you don't seem to want to let any in. The idea of processing immigrants while they are still in Mexico to see who is and is not a genuine asylum seeker is anathema to you. Make up your mine. And the gun control point is to show that you can't believe anything the man says.



The exact issues that the left will scream about haven't been ruled on yet and ICE and the BP aren't big enough to secure the border so the military will have to be used.

If they haven't been ruled on yet, then how can you be sure how the SCOTUS will rule? Got a crystal ball or something? And I see you have changed your goalpost from ICE will be sued out of existence to "they just aren't big enough." Noted.

[Swordsmyth]

There it is: the damnable "Christian" charity and pity.

The "kindness that can kill".

All coated with a patina of Obama-esque "you didn't build that" and SJWarriorisms such as "the only reason you have this is because of your privilege".

No, everything good we have was because of centuries of bloody work, effort and struggle, carried out by men who were ten times the men we are today.

Right now we're just living off the carcass, and self loathing whiners like Kasich want to invite a billion people to the feast because he feels guilty.


Kasich: ‘The Lord Doesn’t Want’ Americans Opposing the Migrant Caravan

https://www.breitbart.com/video/2018/10/25/kasich-the-lord-doesnt-want-americans-opposing-the-migrant-caravan/

25 Oct 2018

Thursday on CNN’s “Newsroom,” Gov. John Kasich (R-OH) said “the Lord” didn’t want Americans to build walls and reject the migrant caravan that is heading to the United States from Central America.

Kasich said, “Here’s what bothers me; we have a caravan coming north. We don’t want all those people coming across our border, and there are ways to deal with it. I believe if we could check those who are legitimately in need of asylum, could be vetted before they even get to the border, but we’re born in America. You know how lucky we are to be born in America and not be born in Guatemala where they would say to your daughter, you know, if you don’t do what we want, we will rape your daughter or kill your son if he’s not a drug mule? Now, they’re marching north, and it could easily have been all of us. That we’re in the caravan, that we’re marching north trying to save our families and save our children.”

He added, “We’ve got to start putting ourselves in the shoes of other people. We’ve got to start thinking about the consequences that others suffer. And if we have been spared those by the grace of God, let us be appreciative, let us count our blessings, and let us reach out to those who have less. Let’s stop putting up walls around ourselves and not understanding the plight, the trouble, and the problems of others. It is not right. And the Lord doesn’t want it, and our people at their hearts want to reach out to others. Look at what they do in these storms they go and they rescue people they don’t know. They put them in their homes. They feed them. That’s America. Not all this garbage and this division and yelling and screaming and hatred on all sides.”
Kasich is a fool and a traitor.

John 10:1 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.”

King James Version (KJV)

[jmdrake]

There it is: the damnable "Christian" charity and pity.

The "kindness that can kill".

All coated with a patina of Obama-esque "you didn't build that" and SJWarriorisms such as "the only reason you have this is because of your privilege".

No, everything good we have was because of centuries of bloody work, effort and struggle, carried out by men who were ten times the men we are today.

Right now we're just living off the carcass, and self loathing whiners like Kasich want to invite a billion people to the feast because he feels guilty.


Kasich: ‘The Lord Doesn’t Want’ Americans Opposing the Migrant Caravan

https://www.breitbart.com/video/2018/10/25/kasich-the-lord-doesnt-want-americans-opposing-the-migrant-caravan/

25 Oct 2018

Thursday on CNN’s “Newsroom,” Gov. John Kasich (R-OH) said “the Lord” didn’t want Americans to build walls and reject the migrant caravan that is heading to the United States from Central America.

Kasich said, “Here’s what bothers me; we have a caravan coming north. We don’t want all those people coming across our border, and there are ways to deal with it. I believe if we could check those who are legitimately in need of asylum, could be vetted before they even get to the border, but we’re born in America. You know how lucky we are to be born in America and not be born in Guatemala where they would say to your daughter, you know, if you don’t do what we want, we will rape your daughter or kill your son if he’s not a drug mule? Now, they’re marching north, and it could easily have been all of us. That we’re in the caravan, that we’re marching north trying to save our families and save our children.”

He added, “We’ve got to start putting ourselves in the shoes of other people. We’ve got to start thinking about the consequences that others suffer. And if we have been spared those by the grace of God, let us be appreciative, let us count our blessings, and let us reach out to those who have less. Let’s stop putting up walls around ourselves and not understanding the plight, the trouble, and the problems of others. It is not right. And the Lord doesn’t want it, and our people at their hearts want to reach out to others. Look at what they do in these storms they go and they rescue people they don’t know. They put them in their homes. They feed them. That’s America. Not all this garbage and this division and yelling and screaming and hatred on all sides.”

AF, yes Kasich is a pompous ass. But please address this one sentence of his.

I believe if we could check those who are legitimately in need of asylum, could be vetted before they even get to the border, but we’re born in America.

That's basically what Ron Paul said. And it addresses the issue before anyone gets to the border. Donald Trump has always said there will be a "big beautiful door" in the wall he wants to build, so he's still talking about vetting people and letting some in. So...you are against this particular position because....? And this position is different from the "door" Donald Trump has always said he will build into the wall because....?

[Swordsmyth]

Yes there will.
No there won't.





Well you don't seem to want to let any in. The idea of processing immigrants while they are still in Mexico to see who is and is not a genuine asylum seeker is anathema to you. Make up your mine.
None of them are legitimate or they wouldn't be joining the invasion force.


And the gun control point is to show that you can't believe anything the man says.
Which has nothing to do with the subject.




If they haven't been ruled on yet, then how can you be sure how the SCOTUS will rule? Got a crystal ball or something?
I never said whivh way SCOTUS would rule for sure, I said liberal courts would rule against them and SCOTUS couldn't be trusted to overrule them.



And I see you have changed your goalpost from ICE will be sued out of existence to "they just aren't big enough." Noted.
I changed nothing, both are true and I have said both before.

[jmdrake]

No there won't.

We shall see.



None of them are legitimate or they wouldn't be joining the invasion force.

If you were literally running for your life you'd catch a ride on whatever bus was going out of town.




Which has nothing to do with the subject.


Integrity has everything to do with whether or not Trump will actually do what he says.

[Swordsmyth]

If you were literally running for your life you'd catch a ride on whatever bus was going out of town.
You would also stop in the first safe country and apply for asylum there, none of them are legitimate.





Integrity has everything to do with whether or not Trump will actually do what he says.
But that isn't the subject.

[jmdrake]

You would also stop in the first safe country and apply for asylum there, none of them are legitimate.

Wrong.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/un-1-500-migrants-leave-honduran-caravan-seek-asylum
About 1,500 Central American migrants traveling in the caravan to the southern U.S. border have abandoned their trek north and applied for asylum through the Mexican government, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees confirmed to the Washington Examiner.

"As of yesterday, roughly 1,500 people have applied for asylum in Mexico," UNHCR spokesman Chris McGrath wrote in an email. Those asylum seekers will remain in the country for up to three months as their requests are processed.


But that isn't the subject.

You said that Trump would put his foot down. His integrity is quite relevant to your point.

[Swordsmyth]

Wrong.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/un-1-500-migrants-leave-honduran-caravan-seek-asylum
About 1,500 Central American migrants traveling in the caravan to the southern U.S. border have abandoned their trek north and applied for asylum through the Mexican government, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees confirmed to the Washington Examiner.

"As of yesterday, roughly 1,500 people have applied for asylum in Mexico," UNHCR spokesman Chris McGrath wrote in an email. Those asylum seekers will remain in the country for up to three months as their requests are processed.

So what does that have to do with those that are still in the "caravan"?

None of them are legitimate.




You said that Trump would put his foot down. His integrity is quite relevant to your point.





People are sick and tired of the unchecked invasion and our government's weak response to it, the majority will support Trump if he finally puts our foot down and says "you shall not pass".

[jmdrake]

So what does that have to do with those that are still in the "caravan"?

None of them are legitimate.

The resources to process people are limited. We are talking about the UN here. Not the world's most efficient organization. There are likely more still in the caravan that would like to apply. Expect that 1,500 number to grow.

[Swordsmyth]

The resources to process people are limited. We are talking about the UN here. Not the world's most efficient organization. There are likely more still in the caravan that would like to apply. Expect that 1,500 number to grow.
Any that try to come to the US arn't legitimate and many of them openly state they only want to come to the US.

[jmdrake]

Any that try to come to the US arn't legitimate and many of them openly state they only want to come to the US.

I'm not saying that 100% of them are legitimate. That's why I have all along supported the vetting process that both Ron Paul and Donald Trump support and that you, for some strange reason, mischaracterize as "open borders." That said I would hardly call Mexico with it's narco gangs "safe." If I was fleeing narco gangs in Honduras I would prefer someplace that I didn't believe was overrun by them. So no. Simply trying to get to the U.S. does not make someone an illegitimate asylum seeker. All of them initially were headed to the U.S. Some have now sought asylum in Mexico. More will do the same. Then there are the criminal elements. They need to be dealt with. I have not seen anyone here suggest otherwise.

[Anti Federalist]

AF, yes Kasich is a pompous ass. But please address this one sentence of his.

I believe if we could check those who are legitimately in need of asylum, could be vetted before they even get to the border, but we’re born in America.

That's basically what Ron Paul said. And it addresses the issue before anyone gets to the border. Donald Trump has always said there will be a "big beautiful door" in the wall he wants to build, so he's still talking about vetting people and letting some in. So...you are against this particular position because....? And this position is different from the "door" Donald Trump has always said he will build into the wall because....?

There is no difference, it is essentially the same position.

I am opposed to it because:

A - It is very easy to "rig" the asylum game, to fill out paperwork and disappear.

B - I am in favor of shutting down all immigration, asylum and refugee influx, from all sources. We are broke, 20 trillion in debt, suffering a political and societal schism large enough to possibly start a war, millions of our own citizens are in poverty, we have a military empire that must be dismantled and a police state domestically that must be dealt with. These issues all need sorting out before one more single person from anywhere, for any reason, is allowed to legally move here.

[jmdrake]

There is no difference, it is essentially the same position.

I am opposed to it because:

A - It is very easy to "rig" the asylum game, to fill out paperwork and disappear.

B - I am in favor of shutting down all immigration, asylum and refugee influx, from all sources. We are broke, 20 trillion in debt, suffering a political and societal schism large enough to possibly start a war, millions of our own citizens are in poverty, we have a military empire that must be dismantled and a police state domestically that must be dealt with. These issues all need sorting out before one more single person from anywhere, for any reason, is allowed to legally move here.

We are "broke" and yet our great POTUS is trying to pull us out of a nuke treaty from before some people on this forum our born so that we can build more nukes we cannot afford. I know you don't agree with Trump on that. I'm just pointing out the reality. There are so many places to draw a line in the sand on fiscal responsibility that pretty much everyone here agrees with, and that have a decent shot of actually passing that the energy spent hand wringing over something that even Trump has made it clear he is not willing to do seems misplaced. Take marijuana decriminalization for example. Despite Swordsmyth and I throwing barbs at each other lately, I do appreciate him posting the link to Trump asking for public comments on that issue. And I publicly commented. Has anybody else? That's a huge issue. Even rolling back the drug war a little bit would be a great start for getting our fiscal house in order. Or the criminal justice reform that Trump has endorsed over the head of that fink slime Jeff Sessions. Democrats say that want that too, though they don't want Trump to get credit for obvious reasons. That should IMO be getting greater push. Seriously, at the end of the day there is less chance of Trump giving what you are asking for than there is Trump actually rolling back the surveillance state. In fact, he recently upped the ante in the name of fighting illegal immigration. (Face scanning cameras at airports).

Anyway, I'm done arguing about this. For those I have called names, Phil4paul, angelatc, Swordsmyth, my apologies. Regardless of what was said by any, the negative energy isn't worth it. I believe this caravan issue will end in a whimper. Some of them will be granted asylum in Mexico. (1,500 have already done that.) Some will be found to be criminals and sent back to Honduras. (That's what happened the last time). And some, most likely, will find their way to the U.S. And...the world won't end. The U.S. won't end. We won't be cooked and eaten like in the book you read. Things are getting incrementally worse in the country and that will continue to happen regardless. But eventually things will normalize and we will be back to puppycide threads.

[Danke]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1OS-epbAmc

[euphemia]

If you were literally running for your life you'd catch a ride on whatever bus was going out of town.

We have lived in our tiny home for 31 years. In an international neighborhood.

First we got the Kurds. Then the Sudanese, including the Lost Boys. Then the Somalis. And now we have the Coptics. I think we have a very good idea what people look like when they have escaped war and malnutrition. We welcomed them and went into their homes and showed them how to use a refrigerator, stove, and washing machine. We taught them how to understand traffic signals and helped them get shoes for their children to wear to school.

This bunch barreling toward the border is wearing new clothes with modern haircuts. They have modern cell phones and expensive backpacks. These are not refugees even a little bit.

The next person who tries to libsplain it to me darn sure better be prepared to come live in my neighborhood for the next six months to get a very good look at what happens when unauthorized people come take over a city.

[jmdrake]

We have lived in our tiny home for 31 years. In an international neighborhood.

First we got the Kurds. Then the Sudanese, including the Lost Boys. Then the Somalis. And now we have the Coptics. I think we have a very good idea what people look like when they have escaped war and malnutrition. We welcomed them and went into their homes and showed them how to use a refrigerator, stove, and washing machine. We taught them how to understand traffic signals and helped them get shoes for their children to wear to school.

This bunch barreling toward the border is wearing new clothes with modern haircuts. They have modern cell phones and expensive backpacks. These are not refugees even a little bit.

The next person who tries to libsplain it to me darn sure better be prepared to come live in my neighborhood for the next six months to get a very good look at what happens when unauthorized people come take over a city.

There are more Kurds in the Nashville area than anywhere else in the U.S. One is a friend of mine, a lawyer and a Ron Paul supporter. (I met him in 2008 at the Ron Paul meetups). A few years ago some kids from a school for Coptic refugees played my son's school in basketball. (Easy win for us. They'd have probably destroyed us in soccer.) I don't know how long those kids had been in the U.S. but they didn't look malnourished. The Lost Boys had a very long trek through the desert before they even started their way to the U.S. I don't believe that fleeing for your life = no backpacks. (And the backpacks I've seen don't look the least bit expensive and I'm Mr. Cheap.)

But again, there is a reason for having a refugee vetting process. At least 1,500 of this latest caravan have already applied for asylum in Mexico. More will most likely do so in the weeks to come, long before they ever get to the U.S. border.

[r3volution 3.0]

You still haven't convinced me to hate myself or my ancestry because of some socialists getting into power and screwing things up for the rest of us. —If self-loathing is your goal, which it very much seems to be these days, count me out.

I wasn't trying to convince you or your ethnic compadres (some kind of negros?) to do or think anything.

I don't care even a little.

Though it would be better if you didn't vote..

[phill4paul]

Anyway, I'm done arguing about this. For those I have called names, Phil....., my apologies.

Please, accept my apologies in reciprosity. Reading back on that other thread I saw that we both were talking past each other and getting heated with each other. I also understand how my posts could be easily misunderstood in that environment. We've also managed to go 10 yrs. without being acrimonious with each other. And that means a great deal to me. Things like mutual respect and common core values.
So, to wrap it up. Please accept my apology and I promise to try to not to let emotions, in dealings with each other, get the better of me in the future.

[UWDude]

Okay. I see you really haven't followed the discussion. SwordSmith's position is that killing kids who illegally cross the border is justifiable. I say it's not. So this whole conversation is based on the premise that his solution, kill em all if necessary, is implemented. Understand now? Or are you just being obtuse?

I don't care what you say he said. Everything you say sounds like bubkis, all the time, to me. It's all hyperbole, rhetoric, and strawmen.... followed by cliche gotcha questions at the end.

You have done it 40,787 times and counting. Big winner every time in your head, I'm sure.

[Ender]

Great POV from prepper Daisy Luther- here's the end of her article:



And it isn’t actually the members of the migrant caravan whom I’m concerned about with turning the US into a war zone. It’s Americans who can no longer find a way to get along. It’s the people who think that anyone who wants strong borders is actually Hitler in disguise. It’s the people who think that immigrants are something less than human beings. It’s the people who can’t have a peaceful conversation about how to prepare for this situation without devolving into the virtual version of a hair-pulling fight.

The real problem is our inability to get along anymore in this country. The real problem is the propaganda that is just widening that rift further and further apart. The real problem is our inability to have a freaking conversation and actually listen to the other person’s potentially valid points.

The real threat isn’t a few thousand people at the border, but the tens of thousands of Americans who will react in outrage no matter what happens at the border with regard to this migrant caravan.

And I’m talking to YOU. The conservatives. The liberals. All of you who just can’t seem to find any kind of common ground anymore.

This issue is not black and white. There are many shades of gray. I fear that no matter what happens at the border upon the arrival of those seeking asylum, that all hell will still break loose in America in response to that. So even those of us nowhere near the border need to consider preparing for widespread civil unrest. It’s probably going to happen and it’ll probably be a much greater threat than the migrants themselves.

My advice is this:

Be a decent human being
Treat others as human beings
Don’t get sucked into the manufactured hysteria
And be prepared for anything.

Reprinted with permission from The Organic Prepper.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/10/daisy-luther/some-unpopular-opinions-about-the-migrant-caravan-and-how-to-prepare-for-its-arrival/

[Swordsmyth]

Great POV from prepper Daisy Luther- here's the end of her article:
Bunk, people are reacting extremely because the situation is extreme, and the left are the ones who have made it extreme and keep pushing things more and more extreme, they have kept things extreme for so long that some people (particularly on the left) think that things are normal or close to it but it isn't true.

We are dangerously close to losing our country and becoming just another banana republic/tribal anarchy where the former majority is a hated and even hunted minority.

[Ender]

Bunk, people are reacting extremely because the situation is extreme, and the left are the ones who have made it extreme and keep pushing things more and more extreme, they have kept things extreme for so long that some people (particularly on the left) think that things are normal or close to it but it isn't true.

We are dangerously close to losing our country and becoming just another banana republic/tribal anarchy where the former majority is a hated and even hunted minority.

Daisy is saying that the biggest danger, to America in this, is the HATE being spread on both sides- right/left- by not being able to have decent dialog about this or work together-

YOU just proved her right.

[Swordsmyth]

Daisy is saying that the biggest danger, to America in this, is the HATE being spread on both sides by not being able to have decent dialog about this or work together-

YOU just proved her right.

One of us is right and it isn't her, people like you would be telling the occupied countries that the NAZIs weren't so bad and that they should just try to get along with them and collaborate like you.

[Ender]

One of us is right and it isn't her, people like you would be telling the occupied countries that the NAZIs weren't so bad and that they should just try to get along with them and collaborate like you.

Why don't you read the article before making such ridiculous statements.

[Swordsmyth]

Why don't you read the article before making such ridiculous statements.
We can't get along with the left because they won't get along with us and they have pushed themselves so far left that our differences are fundamentally irreconcilable.

The left are the NAZIs before they took power and they will be the NAZIs if they ever get power and the wide open border is their plan to import enough ignorant leftists to gain power.

[Swordsmyth]

Why don't you read the article before making such ridiculous statements.


I saw an informal poll on social media in which 51% of the people agreed all immigrants should be shot at the border. SHOT.
That's good news, it means we might just save this country.


I have been an immigrant when I married a Canadian. My daughter has immigrated to the United States after her dad died. I’m certainly thankful no one decided to shoot us on sight.
Because she thinks we are too stupid to understand the difference between legal and illegal immigrants? Or because she is?

[Ender]

That's good news, it means we might just save this country.


Because she thinks we are too stupid to understand the difference between legal and illegal immigrants? Or because she is?

Good grief.

Try READING.



Some Unpopular Opinions About the Migrant Caravan (and How to Prepare for Its Arrival)
By Daisy Luther

The Organic Prepper

October 27, 2018

I have some unpopular opinions about the migrant caravan.

I’m probably going to offend both “sides” of this discussion simultaneously. Anyone who has followed my website for a while knows that I question everything and I recommend that others do the same. But questioning everything also means questioning the things that support your opinions on a topic, and I’m not seeing much of that with regard to this whole migrant caravan circus.

The group I have on Facebook is usually really peaceful and pleasant. We manage to stay away from politics and focus on preparedness. But with the migrant caravan, all bets are off. Tensions are incredibly high.

And this doesn’t serve anyone – at least not anyone whose goal is to be prepared.

Should you be aware this is happening and get prepared if you live near the border? Absolutely. That is common sense. It’s what preppers do.

Should you work yourself into a frenzy reading meme after meme? Um, NO. That doesn’t serve you or anybody else. It just scares you and half that stuff probably isn’t even true.

I know that telling people who are worked up to calm down is generally counterproductive. But for the love of Pete. We need to think this through rationally and not just react with evergrowing panic.

Here are some of the things I’ve been thinking.

Are we making a mountain out of a molehill regarding the migrant caravan?

I love a good conspiracy theory and I’m always ready to question the timing and presentation of events that get folks worked up. Often, it seems like the things people are focusing all their energy and outrage on are a distraction from what we should really be watching.

I’m not saying that this is the case with regard to the migrant caravan. Thousands of people pushing their way through a border despite attempts to stop them is something that should be watched carefully. (Assuming you believe in sovereign borders – which I do, despite my lack of worked-uppedness about this topic. But this article isn’t about border policies – not really.)

While this seems to be the biggest caravan from Central America to the United States, mass migrations are actually not unusual. Literally, hundreds of thousands of people have entered the US as refugees from Central America since the 80s, during the Reagan administration.

Because it’s happened before, of course, doesn’t mean that this time will happen in exactly the same way – that people will peaceful seek to enter the country and claim asylum. This is yet to be seen. But the important thing to note is that this is not a one-off situation. It HAS happened before and we didn’t even know about it.

Could this be another case of a bunch of people walking together for safety and support? Sure. But I don’t know for sure and neither do all the people condemning those who want strong borders, going for the sympathy support for the poor beleaguered “women and children.”

Could this be an invasion of people who aren’t actually Central Americans? Sure. But I don’t know for sure and neither do all the bloggers and news outlets who are breathlessly scaring the crap out of people.

That’s the point. WE JUST DON’T KNOW.

And most of the people saying otherwise are lying to you. Maybe not deliberately. Maybe they think that they are telling the truth because they saw an unsubstantiated report that sounded accurate to them.

Nobody knows and nobody is going to know until they get to the border.

Here are the things that don’t matter when you’re talking about survival.

And another thing.

Let me give you a little comparison here.

Every time there is a mass shooting or some horrific terror event and I write an article about what you can do if you find yourself in the situation, there’s a chorus of smug comments about how it’s a false flag so we don’t need to know what to do.

Ummm. YES. Yes, we freaking do. If someone is shooting at you, whether they’re a government flunkie wearing plain clothes and pretending to be a Russian or whether they’re legitimately batcrap crazy and just opening fire on a church, you need to know what to do to protect yourself and the ones you love. Bullets don’t care who’s firing the gun. They will pierce your body regardless of the trigger puller. And all you will care about at that moment in time, should you find yourself in the midst of a mass shooting event, is staying alive. In the moment, you won’t give two hoots and a tinker’s damn about whether it’s a false flag event.

The same thing is true about this migrant caravan.

Everyone is talking about how “George Soros” is behind the whole shindig. Is he? I have no idea. It kinda sounds like something he’d do. But will that matter if a horde of hungry people is beating down your door? You could say, “I denounce you in the name of George Soros! There, you’re busted. I know your game and you can go now!” But I doubt that this will give them any pause.

People are also talking about how “there are cars driving people.” Are there? This is evidence of nothing except that some folks got a ride. Why does this matter? How does this change your preparedness plan?

Do they all have horrible diseases? I’ve read quite a few articles about the diseases that the migrants might be carrying. I mean, it’s possible, but I can’t imagine someone with active cases of most of those illnesses could walk 1600 miles. Practice good hand hygiene and take all the other steps you’d normally take to prevent illness until we have more details.
Are the people walking to the US gang members or ISIS soldiers? I don’t know that either. Maybe they are. But again, right now, these are just assertions. Does the picture of this guy holding his fingers strangely provide “definitive proof” that he is a member of the MS13 gang? About as much as that Coast Guard guy who got busted on TV and then fired for holding his fingers strangely is definitively a white supremacist. COME ON, PEOPLE.

There are criminals and radicals everywhere, including in the United States. Statistically speaking, it would be more unusual if there were no criminals or radicals in a group of 4000-14000 people walking through Mexico. Do we want more criminals and radicals in the country? Of course not. But they’re allowed to walk through Mexico. Our ability to put a stop to their entry begins at the border. Getting hysterical about it now serves no purpose whatsoever.

Will the members of the migrant caravan be angry and just burst through the border and overrun the place? I cannot speak to their states of mind. I can tell you that when I forget to eat lunch, then it’s time to go pick up my daughter and then I get stuck in traffic and dinner is delayed even longer, I get pretty riled up. I would be highly tempted to take that Reese’s peanut butter cup that’s just sitting there on the top of her bag because she HAD lunch and she’s just taunting me with it. I, for one, get hangry (hungry and angry).

Now, think about walking 1600 miles – walking – and then you’ll probably have a general idea of how they’re feeling and how much they just want to rest and get something to eat. That might affect their temperament somewhat. Perfectly nice people, like me, get cranky when they skip lunch and they’re tired. Think about walking 1600 miles and perhaps not having much to eat and it is reasonable to assume they’ll be a bit tense.

Will the members of the caravan try and sneak through? I can tell you that a crowd of however many thousand people there are will not just “sneak” through. They’re going to be met, most likely, by our military. At that point, I hope that all involved will dip into their pools of common sense and that a peaceful interaction will occur, with people legally seeking asylum and being given the opportunity or not at the discretion of the Border Patrol.

How will it happen? Again, we don’t know. There are no crystal balls. But I haven’t been able to find any accounts of those involved in mass migrations breaching our border by the thousands.

If you’re concerned these are the productive things you can do.

If you live near the border, you might be feeling very concerned about all of this. I don’t blame you. I would probably feel concerned too. But now is your chance to be productive and practical, instead of hitting refresh on all of the websites that are feeding your panic.

This should be treated like any other Rawlsian Golden Horde. If you’re not familiar, James Wesley Rawles of SurvivalBlog fame has a very reasonable theory that in the aftermath of an event that leaves systemic failure in its wake, there will be an exodus from the cities of frantic, desperate people who will do frantic desperate things in their search for food and shelter. Mr. Rawles writes:

As the comfort level in the cities rapidly drops to nil, there will be a massive involuntary outpouring from the big cities and suburbs into the hinterboonies. This is the phenomenon that my late father, Donald Robert Rawles–a career particle physics research administrator at Lawrence Livermore Laboratories–half-jokingly called “The Golden Horde.” He was of course referring to the Mongol Horde of the 13th Century, but in a modern context. (The Mongol rulers were chosen from the ‘Golden Family’ of Temujin. Hence the term “The Golden Horde.”) I can remember as a child, my father pointing to the hills at the west end of the Livermore Valley, where we then lived. He opined: “If The Bomb ever drops, we’ll see a Golden Horde come swarming over those hills [from Oakland and beyond] of the like that the world has never seen. And they’ll be very unpleasant, believe you me!”

…Here is a mental exercise: Put yourself in the mind set of Mr. Joe Sixpack, Suburbanite. (Visualize him in or near a big city near where you live.) He is unprepared. He has less than one week’s food on hand, he has a 12 gauge pump action shotgun that he hasn’t fired in years, and just half a tank of gas in his minivan and maybe a gallon or two in a can that he keeps on hand for his lawn mower. Then TEOTWAWKI hits. The power grid is down, his job is history, the toilet doesn’t flush, and water no longer magically comes cascading from the tap. There are riots beginning in his city. The local service stations have run out of gas. The banks have closed. Now he is suddenly desperate. Where will he go? What will he do?

Odds are, Joe will think: “I’ve gotta go find a vacation cabin somewhere, up in the mountains, where some rich dude only goes a few weeks out of each year.” So vacation destinations like Lake Tahoe, Lake Arrowhead, and Squaw Valley, California; Prescott and Sedona, Arizona; Hot Springs, Arkansas; Vail and Steamboat Springs, Colorado; and the other various rural ski, spa, Great Lakes, and coastal resort areas will get swarmed. Or, he will think: “I’ve got to go to where they grow food.” So places like the Imperial Valley, the Willamette Valley, and the Red River Valley will similarly get overrun. There will be so many desperate Joe Sixpacks arriving all at once that these areas will degenerate into free-fire zones. It will be an intensely ugly situation and will not be safe for anyone. (source)

In my opinion, should somehow our border be breached and thousands of hungry, angry migrants come pouring in, a worst-case scenario could be something like what Mr. Rawles describes above. How do you prepare for something like that?
A few things to consider for those near the border are:

Talk to your neighbors and join forces with like-minded people. You can’t go it alone against thousands of hungry people. Or even dozens. There’s strength in numbers. I’d suggest avoiding the militant type who have lost their grasp on reality and are calling it “war.” Those guys will just make things worse.
Increase your home security. It’s very likely that if a bunch of people broke through the border, they’d scatter to be more difficult to find. Harden your home so that it’s more difficult to get into. Make it look uninviting. Check your fences. Maybe even add barbed wire if you’re really worried.
Be armed. I’ve written before about the importance of being armed and this, to me, seems like the best time ever to have a firearm that you know how to use. Be cautious, though. If you are greatly outnumbered and you run through your ammo shooting at people, you are just going to tick off the ones you didn’t hit. And you’re going to have a really bad time because perhaps you just killed that guy’s brother or best friend. Not good.
Lay low. If things get crazy, it isn’t a great time to walk the dog or go for a scenic drive. Stay home and away from the chaos. Make sure you have the supplies to hunker down for a while if you need to do so.
Bug out. Alternatively, if you’re really scared, it’s okay to leave and go stay with friends or family for a while when the caravan gets closer. Bugging out is an option. This is not the Alamo and you are under no obligation to stay and defend your home. It’s a personal decision that everyone must make for themselves.
Don’t panic though. Panic causes us to do stupid things and make terrible mistakes that we can’t undo.

This drama is just feeding the division in our country.

The thing about this that burns me up the most is the way it is feeding the division that is already horrible in our country. Nobody – NOBODY – seems to be able to scroll on past when someone else mentions the caravan. I know that my group is just a teeny microcosm of it all, but what I saw in there concerns me greatly.

Folks have gotten so wound up over this thing about which we do not know all the facts that they have pretty much lost their dang minds. There’s no reason. There’s no humanity.

I saw an informal poll on social media in which 51% of the people agreed all immigrants should be shot at the border. SHOT. What a bunch of bullsh*t that is. And it isn’t original either. Last summer some people in Oregon had a conversation on social media about what a “great idea” it would be to save us some money.

Are we really so terrified of people who speak Spanish that we’d shoot mothers, fathers, sisters, and brothers without knowing anything else about them? Without being threatened? If people were to enact such a hateful policy, how long would it be before innocent people with brown skin who are here in the country legally became victims?

I have been an immigrant when I married a Canadian. My daughter has immigrated to the United States after her dad died. I’m certainly thankful no one decided to shoot us on sight.

We have a process for dealing with this, and hopefully, it will work. I don’t want to see the military open fire on a bunch of people who just walked 1600 miles.

And it isn’t actually the members of the migrant caravan whom I’m concerned about with turning the US into a war zone. It’s Americans who can no longer find a way to get along. It’s the people who think that anyone who wants strong borders is actually Hitler in disguise. It’s the people who think that immigrants are something less than human beings. It’s the people who can’t have a peaceful conversation about how to prepare for this situation without devolving into the virtual version of a hair-pulling fight.

The real problem is our inability to get along anymore in this country. The real problem is the propaganda that is just widening that rift further and further apart. The real problem is our inability to have a freaking conversation and actually listen to the other person’s potentially valid points.

The real threat isn’t a few thousand people at the border, but the tens of thousands of Americans who will react in outrage no matter what happens at the border with regard to this migrant caravan.

And I’m talking to YOU. The conservatives. The liberals. All of you who just can’t seem to find any kind of common ground anymore.

This issue is not black and white. There are many shades of gray. I fear that no matter what happens at the border upon the arrival of those seeking asylum, that all hell will still break loose in America in response to that. So even those of us nowhere near the border need to consider preparing for widespread civil unrest. It’s probably going to happen and it’ll probably be a much greater threat than the migrants themselves.

My advice is this:

Be a decent human being
Treat others as human beings
Don’t get sucked into the manufactured hysteria
And be prepared for anything.

Reprinted with permission from The Organic Prepper.

The Best of Daisy Luther

Daisy Luther [send her mail] is a freelance writer and editor. Her website, The Organic Prepper, offers information on healthy prepping, including premium nutritional choices, general wellness and non-tech solutions. You can follow Daisy on Facebook and Twitter.
Copyright © 2018 The Organic Prepper

[CaptainAmerica]

they have no right to come here in our current economic circumstances. there needs to be a hold on immigration because of how much welfare these idiots are on. Indians have become a big problem in Arizona, so have middle easterners. Its a shock to our culture, and shock to our economy that we have to be buckled with this bullshit as if we are the clean up crew for the world.

[jmdrake]

I don't care what you say he said. Everything you say sounds like bubkis, all the time, to me. It's all hyperbole, rhetoric, and strawmen.... followed by cliche gotcha questions at the end.

You have done it 40,787 times and counting. Big winner every time in your head, I'm sure.

Okay. So you are just being an obtuse jerk looking to get your jollies trolling. Fine by me. You don't like me and I don't like you and we can leave it at that.

[Anti Federalist]

Good grief.

Try READING.

I read the whole thing, and she makes some valid points.

She also goes into detail about how to prepare for an incident like this, which is logical, it is a prepper site.

My question would be: why should a US citizen, who has been dutifully paying his government rents on "his" property, even begin to have to think about "bugging out" or prepping due to a migrant horde from outside the US?

Isn't that supposed to be the reason why the citizen has been dutifully paying his rents to the local liege-lords, to protect him and his property from invasions?