Murder Rate Drops to 33-Year Low

[Krugminator2]

https://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95379&page=1

Read another article saying that it is possible violent crime is the lowest since pre-prohibition. Also noteworthy, it is much easier to get a gun now than in the past. I don't think one has to do with the other but it would seem in a normal world gun control would be less of an issue given this data.


The U.S. murder rate last year hit the lowest level since 1966 as the number of serious crimes committed nationwide fell for the eighth year in a row, the FBI said today.In its 422-page report detailing final U.S. crime statistics for 1999, the FBI said the murder count stood at 15,533 last year, or one murder every 34 minutes.
The murder rate worked out to six murders for every 100,000 U.S. inhabitants, the lowest level since 1966 when there were 5.7 murders for every 100,000 people.
The overall violent crime rate sank to a 21-year low — 525 murders, rapes, robberies and assaults for every 100,000 residents. The last time the figure was lower — 498 in 1978 — came well before an epidemic of crack cocaine sent violent crime soaring in the mid-1980s.

[Anti Federalist]

In spite of leftist Bolsheviks running amok, an armed society IS a polite society.

[Danke]

Aren't cops' murder rates down too?

[Anti Federalist]

I don't think one has to do with the other but it would seem in a normal world gun control would be less of an issue given this data.

I disagree.

I think the more people armed and carrying those arms has made a clear, demonstrable and rapid impact in violent crime reduction.

http://concealednation.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/ScreenHunter_777-Jul.-18-17.52.jpg

[r3volution 3.0]

But, but, what about the beaner-pocalypse?

Weren't we were all supposed to get murdered and used as taco filling by the invading foreign hordes...?

[dannno]

Well, weed is practically legal in half the country now so..

[Anti Federalist]

Aren't cops' murder rates down too?

Steadily trending down.

https://www.odmp.org/

There is no "War On Cops", outside of the usual havens of diversity in NY and CA and FL and TX.

PS: Interesting to note that cops deaths by auto crashes has decreased significantly as more "no high speed chases allowed" rules were put in place.

[Anti Federalist]

But, but, what about the beaner-pocalypse?

Weren't we were all supposed to get murdered and used as taco filling by the invading foreign hordes...?

Amazing how it went down as we increased throwing them out.

[Swordsmyth]

But, but, what about the beaner-pocalypse?

Weren't we were all supposed to get murdered and used as taco filling by the invading foreign hordes...?
The illegals are still responsible for more than their fair share, they still need to go even if the murder rate drops 90% more.

And politics is still the main reason they need to go.

[r3volution 3.0]

Amazing how it went down as we increased throwing them out.

https://static01.********/images/2018/02/21/us/up-myth-criminal-immigrant-promo/up-myth-criminal-immigrant-promo-facebookJumbo.jpg

:confused:

[Swordsmyth]

https://static01.********/images/2018/02/21/us/up-myth-criminal-immigrant-promo/up-myth-criminal-immigrant-promo-facebookJumbo.jpg

:confused:
Nice try, we all know the difference between legal and illegal immigrants.

[r3volution 3.0]

Nice try, we all know the difference between legal and illegal immigrants.

Yes, the one group puts in their visa applications before the quota is met; the other, afterwards.

[Swordsmyth]

Yes, the one group puts in their visa applications before the quota is met; the other, afterwards.
One group follows the law and the other doesn't give a fig for it.

[r3volution 3.0]

One group follows the law and the other doesn't give a fig for it.

The immigration laws, as distinct from laws prohibiting real crimes, like murder.

[Swordsmyth]

The immigration laws, as distinct from laws prohibiting real crimes, like murder.

Most don't make that distinction.

[r3volution 3.0]

Most don't make that distinction.

Well, I guess you'd better pack up the potheads, jaywalkers, and other lawbreakers and ship them to Tijuana.

They break laws, therefore they will murder us all.

[Swordsmyth]

Well, I guess you'd better pack up the potheads, jaywalkers, and other lawbreakers and ship them to Tijuana.

They break laws, therefore they will murder us all.
We can't do that with citizens even if statistics did show that people like that commit more real crimes like they show about illegals, citizens have a right to be here and are innocent until proven guilty, illegals are also innocent until proven guilty but they are guilty of illegal entry and don't have a right to be here.

[r3volution 3.0]

We can't do that with citizens even if statistics did show that people like that commit more real crimes like they show about illegals, citizens have a right to be here and are innocent until proven guilty, illegals are also innocent until proven guilty but they are guilty of illegal entry and don't have a right to be here.

So, you are or aren't claiming that non-criminals like pot-smokers, jay-walkers, or border-crossers are more likely to commit violent crimes?

[jmdrake]

Amazing how it went down as we increased throwing them out.


https://static01.********/images/2018/02/21/us/up-myth-criminal-immigrant-promo/up-myth-criminal-immigrant-promo-facebookJumbo.jpg

:confused:


Nice try, we all know the difference between legal and illegal immigrants.

Actually the illegal immigrant rate was also still going up while the murder rate was going down.

https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Pew-Research-Center-graphic.png

[Swordsmyth]

So, you are or aren't claiming that non-criminals like pot-smokers, jay-walkers, or border-crossers are more likely to commit violent crimes?
Border-crossers are, I haven't seen any studies that say that about jay-walkers or pot-smokers.

[r3volution 3.0]

Border-crossers are, I haven't seen any studies that say that about jay-walkers or pot-smokers.

Show me these studies about border-crossers.

*Note that Breitbart articles aren't studies.

[Swordsmyth]

Actually the illegal immigrant rate was also still going up while the murder rate was going down.

https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Pew-Research-Center-graphic.png

Just think how far the murder rate would have dropped without them.

[r3volution 3.0]

While you're looking for those studies, @Swordsmyth (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=65299), here's some other data to ponder:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/United_States_Map_of_Homicide_Deaths_per_100%2C000 _People_by_State_%282015%29.svg/850px-United_States_Map_of_Homicide_Deaths_per_100%2C000 _People_by_State_%282015%29.svg.png

The darker colors represent higher murder rates.

As you can see, Louisiana has the highest murder rate in the country.

If we deported all Louisianans, the US murder rate would drop.

Therefore, we should deport all Louisianans. If you disagree, you want people to die.

...see if you can spot the flaw in this reasoning.

[TheTexan]

Aren't cops' murder rates down too?

Unfortunately, there's still no improvement in the number of cops that die to dog attacks each year.

It's still the same as it ever was.

[Swordsmyth]

Show me these studies about border-crossers.

*Note that Breitbart articles aren't studies.
I and others have posted them before, I get tired of posting the same things over and over again because you open borders cultists pretend not to remember anything you don't like.

[Swordsmyth]

While you're looking for those studies, @Swordsmyth (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=65299), here's some other data to ponder:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/United_States_Map_of_Homicide_Deaths_per_100%2C000 _People_by_State_%282015%29.svg/850px-United_States_Map_of_Homicide_Deaths_per_100%2C000 _People_by_State_%282015%29.svg.png

The darker colors represent higher murder rates.

As you can see, Louisiana has the highest murder rate in the country.

If we deported all Louisianans, the US murder rate would drop.

Therefore, we should deport all Louisianans. If you disagree, you want people to die.

...see if you can spot the flaw in this reasoning.

The citizens of Louisiana have a right to be here.

[jmdrake]

Just think how far the murder rate would have dropped without them.

Well you support murder anyway as long as it's killing "illegals" so why are you bothered by a murder rate whatever it is?

[r3volution 3.0]

I and others have posted them before, I get tired of posting the same things over and over again because you open borders cultists pretend not to remember anything you don't like.

I remember lots of posts about imaginary Somali riots in Minnesota and the like.

Are those the ones you mean?


The citizens of Louisiana have a right to be here.

If we deported them, fewer people in the US would die.

Therefore, by opposing their deportation, you want more people in the US to die.

...however can you sleep at night.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

That's great. Now let's compare it with the 1950s. Or even the late 19th Century:

http://i.imgur.com/Ayj53JB.jpg

[Swordsmyth]

Well you support murder anyway as long as it's killing "illegals" so why are you bothered by a murder rate whatever it is?

Shooting invaders isn't murder no matter how many times you say it.

[jmdrake]

That's great. Now let's compare it with the 1950s. Or even the late 19th Century:

http://i.imgur.com/Ayj53JB.jpg

Cool graphic! I'd like that as a t-shirt.

[jmdrake]

Shooting invaders isn't murder no matter how many times you say it.

The murderers who murdered that 10 year old girl were convicted of murder no matter how many times you try to pretend it's not murder.

[Swordsmyth]

I remember lots of posts about imaginary Somali riots in Minnesota and the like.

Are those the ones you mean?
Some people claimed they didn't happen after others reported them but no that isn't what I am talking about, I'm talking about studies that show illegal immigrants commit violent crimes at a much higher rate than citizens.




If we deported them, fewer people in the US would die.

Therefore, by opposing their deportation, you want more people in the US to die.

...however can you sleep at night.
I respect the rights of citizens and I support the expulsion of invaders, I sleep just fine.

[TheTexan]

Therefore, we should deport all Louisianans.

I wouldn't be opposed to it.

[Swordsmyth]

The murderers who murdered that 10 year old girl were convicted of murder no matter how many times you try to pretend it's not murder.
Convicted by the same government that has convicted so many other patriots of false crimes and has deliberately facilitated the invasion to destroy our freedom.

Since when did you learn to love Big Brother?

[r3volution 3.0]

Some people claimed they didn't happen after others reported them

Some people made up stories with no sources and other people pointed out that there were no sources.


but no that isn't what I am talking about, I'm talking about studies that show illegal immigrants commit violent crimes at a much higher rate than citizens

I saw a study once that said 87.35% of nationalists are cross-eyed transvestites.

I don't feel like posting it now, you'll have to take my word for it.


I respect the rights of citizens and I support the expulsion of invaders, I sleep just fine.

In other words, it has nothing at all to do with crime, and that's merely a rationalization.

Yes, I know.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

Cool graphic! I'd like that as a t-shirt.
Here's a more robust analysis of the same data:
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2012/12/listening_to_the_latest_media.html
There's more at work than just gun control, such as the cultural shifts that started in the mid-late 1960s and the psychological effects of returning World War I vets..

The lower homicide rate in the 1950s is significant because:

1. We have better medical technology today, thereby turning incidents that would have been homicides in the past into assaults today.
2. We have far more people in prison now than in the 1950s as a percentage of the population.
3: We have a far bigger federal police force than in the 1950s as well as many, many more laws.
4. Urbanization has increased since the 50s, which is a good predictor of crime.

Assuming ceteris paribus conditions between the time periods, the 50s look like the safer time period. Neither of them were as safe as the late 1800s.

[r3volution 3.0]

For the very long term:

http://3ijp5i2qkzo4hq4yrxfteqh-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/crime.jpg

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/h/humfig/images/11217607.0002.206-00000001.jpg

*note the scale on the second chart

[Danke]

For the very long term:

http://3ijp5i2qkzo4hq4yrxfteqh-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/crime.jpg

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/h/humfig/images/11217607.0002.206-00000001.jpg

*note the scale on the second chart


seriously, how have they been keeping statistics that long ago?


I'd imagine even the legal terms have changed in that time span.

[Anti Federalist]

While you're looking for those studies, @Swordsmyth (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=65299), here's some other data to ponder:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/United_States_Map_of_Homicide_Deaths_per_100%2C000 _People_by_State_%282015%29.svg/850px-United_States_Map_of_Homicide_Deaths_per_100%2C000 _People_by_State_%282015%29.svg.png

The darker colors represent higher murder rates.

As you can see, Louisiana has the highest murder rate in the country.

If we deported all Louisianans, the US murder rate would drop.

Therefore, we should deport all Louisianans. If you disagree, you want people to die.

...see if you can spot the flaw in this reasoning.

No, that graphic illustrates a different 900 lb. gorilla in the room that nobody even dares talk about.

[Krugminator2]

I disagree.

I think the more people armed and carrying those arms has made a clear, demonstrable and rapid impact in violent crime reduction.

http://concealednation.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/ScreenHunter_777-Jul.-18-17.52.jpg

I'm all for concealed carry and letting just about anyone get a gun. It might be a big reason. I just don't think it is the main reason. I think abortion is the biggest cause.. Crime dropped nationwide starting in the early 90s when Roe V Wade turned 18. And it started dropping earlier for states that had approved abortion sooner. That isn't a reason to be pro-choice but the data fits pretty perfectly to explain it. Also I think the mass incarceration made law probably works. I am not saying it is moral. (It isn't.) I just think it works. Singapore doesn't have a drug problem because they just execute you if you are in the drug trades. Not moral but works.

[otherone]

The citizens of Louisiana have a right to be here.

The citizens of Louisiana have a right to be there.

[oyarde]

I wouldn't be opposed to it.

We could open it up to homesteaders then and call it Indian Territory .

[homahr]

Here's a more robust analysis of the same data:
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2012/12/listening_to_the_latest_media.html
There's more at work than just gun control, such as the cultural shifts that started in the mid-late 1960s and the psychological effects of returning World War I vets..

The lower homicide rate in the 1950s is significant because:

1. We have better medical technology today, thereby turning incidents that would have been homicides in the past into assaults today.
2. We have far more people in prison now than in the 1950s as a percentage of the population.
3: We have a far bigger federal police force than in the 1950s as well as many, many more laws.
4. Urbanization has increased since the 50s, which is a good predictor of crime.

Assuming ceteris paribus conditions between the time periods, the 50s look like the safer time period. Neither of them were as safe as the late 1800s.

Good stuff, thank you for sharing this.

[Zippyjuan]

Must be all those immigrants we have been importing. Everybody says they have been impacting our crime rates.

[Swordsmyth]

The citizens of Louisiana have a right to be there.

So long as Louisiana is part of the union the correct word is "here".

[r3volution 3.0]

No, that graphic illustrates a different 900 lb. gorilla in the room that nobody even dares talk about.

Some deport-the-criminals types might be disinclined to mention it because they don't want to be called racists.

The more clever deport-the-criminals types realize that their logic, taken to its conclusion, leads to absurdity.

E.G. If one were serious about lowering the crime rate by deporting demographic groups, one would deport everyone except Asian women.


seriously, how have they been keeping statistics that long ago?

I'd imagine even the legal terms have changed in that time span.

Not sure if joking...

Of course they weren't keeping statistics 800 years ago.

The older data are based on historical evidence: e.g. what % of bodies buried in 12th century cemeteries evidence a violent death.

[Danke]

Some deport-the-criminals types might be disinclined to mention it because they don't want to be called racists.

The more clever deport-the-criminals types realize that their logic, taken to its conclusion, leads to absurdity.

E.G. If one were serious about lowering the crime rate by deporting demographic groups, one would deport everyone except Asian women.



Not sure if joking...

Of course they weren't keeping statistics 800 years ago.

The older data are based on historical evidence: e.g. what % of bodies buried in 12th century cemeteries evidence a violent death.


sounds pretty accurate...

[TheCount]

The darker colors represent higher murder rates.

As you can see, Louisiana has the highest murder rate in the country.

If we deported all Louisianans, the US murder rate would drop.

Therefore, we should deport all Louisianans. If you disagree, you want people to die.

...see if you can spot the flaw in this reasoning.

If we replaced the entire population of Louisiana with immigrants, the murder rate there would decline dramatically.

[Swordsmyth]

If we replaced the entire population of Louisiana with immigrants, the murder rate there would decline dramatically.
What are you planning on doing with the people of Louisiana?


And the communism rate would spike so you can forget that idea no matter how you answer the question above.

[Zippyjuan]

If we replaced the entire population of Louisiana with immigrants, the murder rate there would decline dramatically.

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1742299/original.jpg

[Swordsmyth]

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1742299/original.jpg

What are you planning on doing with the people of Louisiana?


And the communism rate would spike so you can forget that idea no matter how you answer the question above.

[Swordsmyth]

If we replaced the entire population of Louisiana with immigrants, the murder rate there would decline dramatically.


http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1742299/original.jpg

The Vampire and Zippy have officially endorsed population replacement. (OTHERWISE KNOWN AS ETHNIC CLEANSING)

[Kilrain]

Homicide stats are a bit iffy, since the number of homicides is supposed to fall simply because of advances in medicine. These days the general rule is that if you make it to the hospital alive, you'll survive, to a higher degree than before. You can have an increase in the overall level of violence and a decrease in homicides at the same time.

[Krugminator2]

Homicide stats are a bit iffy, since the number of homicides is supposed to fall simply because of advances in medicine. These days the general rule is that if you make it to the hospital alive, you'll survive, to a higher degree than before. You can have an increase in the overall level of violence and a decrease in homicides at the same time.

All true and that article was an old article even though it said it was from the 15th. But violent crime stats have fallen dramatically as well. https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-02-12/pssst-crime-may-be-near-an-all-time-low

[TheCount]

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1742299/original.jpg

https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/_svUsmt9spM6PbAL8CiFEt2eUfs=/1250x0/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/XATRA3VTXI7VZL2PBK7ZCDLNEA.png

[Danke]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/_svUsmt9spM6PbAL8CiFEt2eUfs=/1250x0/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/XATRA3VTXI7VZL2PBK7ZCDLNEA.png

sounds legit.

[Swordsmyth]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/_svUsmt9spM6PbAL8CiFEt2eUfs=/1250x0/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/XATRA3VTXI7VZL2PBK7ZCDLNEA.png

Washington Compost/Corporatist American Traitors Organization propaganda.

[TheCount]

The Vampire and Zippy have officially endorsed population replacement. (OTHERWISE KNOWN AS ETHNIC CLEANSING)
Louisiana is not a race

[Ender]

Homicide stats are a bit iffy, since the number of homicides is supposed to fall simply because of advances in medicine. These days the general rule is that if you make it to the hospital alive, you'll survive, to a higher degree than before. You can have an increase in the overall level of violence and a decrease in homicides at the same time.

A few years ago LA doctors went on strike and the death rate went.....DOWN. :hearnoevil:

[r3volution 3.0]

Homicide stats are a bit iffy, since the number of homicides is supposed to fall simply because of advances in medicine. These days the general rule is that if you make it to the hospital alive, you'll survive, to a higher degree than before. You can have an increase in the overall level of violence and a decrease in homicides at the same time.

That's true, but that's not what's happened in this case.

https://www.statista.com/graphic/1/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990.jpg

And then there's property crime, which should be correlated with violent crime:

https://www.statista.com/graphic/1/191237/reported-property-crime-rate-in-the-us-since-1990.jpg

[Zippyjuan]

That's true, but that's not what's happened in this case.

https://www.statista.com/graphic/1/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990.jpg

And then there's property crime, which should be correlated with violent crime:

https://www.statista.com/graphic/1/191237/reported-property-crime-rate-in-the-us-since-1990.jpg

Must be due to all those rapists/ criminals/ murderers we have been importing.

http://cis.org/sites/cis.org/files/immigration-population-highest.png

[Krugminator2]

That's true, but that's not what's happened in this case.

https://www.statista.com/graphic/1/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990.jpg

And then there's property crime, which should be correlated with violent crime:

https://www.statista.com/graphic/1/191237/reported-property-crime-rate-in-the-us-since-1990.jpg


Notice how crime peaks in 1991. Roe v Wade was passed in 1973. Unpopular answer, but a lot of those kids who who would have entered their prime crime committing years were aborted.

[Zippyjuan]

Notice how crime peaks in 1991. Roe v Wade was passed in 1973. Unpopular answer, but a lot of those kids who who would have entered their prime crime committing years were aborted.

1991 was also the peak of the crack cocaine epidemic.

[Swordsmyth]

Louisiana is not a race
:rolleyes:

[Swordsmyth]

A few years ago LA doctors went on strike and the death rate went.....DOWN. :hearnoevil:
Did the trauma deaths go down?
Or was it just the iatrogenic deaths?

[Swordsmyth]

Must be due to all those rapists/ criminals/ murderers we have been importing.

http://cis.org/sites/cis.org/files/immigration-population-highest.png
Legal immigrants in general commit less crime, nobody is disputing that, they pull down the crime rate and combined with a drop in native crime that reduced the crime rate more than the illegals increased it.

[Krugminator2]

1991 was also the peak of the crack cocaine epidemic.

http://freakonomics.com/2005/05/15/abortion-and-crime-who-should-you-believe/

He addresses crack pretty thoroughly in the middle of this post.

[phill4paul]

Must be due to all those rapists/ criminals/ murderers we have been importing.

http://cis.org/sites/cis.org/files/immigration-population-highest.png

Motte and Bailey.

[Kilrain]

That's true, but that's not what's happened in this case.

https://www.statista.com/graphic/1/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990.jpg

And then there's property crime, which should be correlated with violent crime:

https://www.statista.com/graphic/1/191237/reported-property-crime-rate-in-the-us-since-1990.jpg

I've learned to be wary about those kinds of stats as well. We've seen a pretty huge spike in reported violent crime for decades now, only to be told that violent crime is going down and that it's just people reporting more crimes. People seem to have a tendency to "massage" data to suit their agenda.

https://affes.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/misshandel_1950_2009.png

The line is number of reported "assaults", the bars show population level.

[r3volution 3.0]

I've learned to be wary about those kinds of stats as well. We've seen a pretty huge spike in reported violent crime for decades now, only to be told that violent crime is going down and that it's just people reporting more crimes. People seem to have a tendency to "massage" data to suit their agenda.

https://affes.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/misshandel_1950_2009.png

The line is number of reported "assaults", the bars show population level.

What's the source of that data?

[Kilrain]

What's the source of that data?

It's listed in the picture.

SCB: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics_Sweden

BRÅ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_National_Council_for_Crime_Prevention

RSÅ: Not sure what that is.

[r3volution 3.0]

It's listed in the picture.

SCB: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics_Sweden

BRÅ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_National_Council_for_Crime_Prevention

RSÅ: Not sure what that is.

We were talking about the US, not Sweden.

[Swordsmyth]

We were talking about the US, not Sweden.

And he was talking about lies, D@&^ LIES and statistics.

[Kilrain]

We were talking about the US, not Sweden.

Like Swordsmyth said, my point was more about relying on statistics in general. Geographical location is not all that relevant to that.

[r3volution 3.0]

Like Swordsmyth said, my point was more about relying on statistics in general. Geographical location is not all that relevant to that.

Well, my point was about the dramatically declining murder/violent-crime/property-crime rate in the US.

...to which crime data from another country is entirely irrelevant.

[Krugminator2]

Like Swordsmyth said, my point was more about relying on statistics in general. Geographical location is not all that relevant to that.

Except violent crime has gone up in Sweden and everyone acknowledges it. Who is telling you otherwise? Sweden has more rapes [er capita than any Western country by far. Also noteworthy is that even left leaning outlets attribute the rise in violent crime in Sweden to Muslim refugees.

https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-bombings-grenade-attacks-violent-reality-undoing-peaceful-self-image-law-and-order/
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/03/world/europe/sweden-crime-immigration-hand-grenades.html?mtrref=www.google.com&gwh=9C20BD39717CB98F026F2B6CF18C4E4C&gwt=pay
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/sweden-crime-rates-immigration-policies/

Whereas crime is falling in the US.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

Notice how crime peaks in 1991. Roe v Wade was passed in 1973. Unpopular answer, but a lot of those kids who who would have entered their prime crime committing years were aborted.
Steven Pinker debunked the Freakonomics theory some years ago.

[Kilrain]

Except violent crime has gone up in Sweden and everyone acknowledges it. Who is telling you otherwise? Sweden has more rapes [er capita than any Western country by far. Also noteworthy is that even left leaning outlets attribute the rise in violent crime in Sweden to Muslim refugees.

https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-bombings-grenade-attacks-violent-reality-undoing-peaceful-self-image-law-and-order/
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/03/world/europe/sweden-crime-immigration-hand-grenades.html?mtrref=www.google.com&gwh=9C20BD39717CB98F026F2B6CF18C4E4C&gwt=pay
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/sweden-crime-rates-immigration-policies/

Whereas crime is falling in the US.


I'm sorry, I really wasn't trying to make this about Sweden - again. Again, my point was about statistics and their use/misuse.

And you'll hear "Violence is dropping", "Sweden has never been safer", etc., from all the usual suspects - governmental and non-governmental - in Sweden. Foreigners, even left-leaning foreigners, are better able to point out the obvious.

Please forgive my derail of the thread, it was unintended and I don't want to seem like a broken record.

[Danke]

I'm sorry, I really wasn't trying to make this about Sweden - again. Again, my point was about statistics and their use/misuse.

And you'll hear "Violence is dropping", "Sweden has never been safer", etc., from all the usual suspects - governmental and non-governmental - in Sweden. Foreigners, even left-leaning foreigners, are better able to point out the obvious.

Please forgive my derail of the thread, it was unintended and I don't want to seem like a broken record.

do you know “ the angey foreigner?”

[Kilrain]

do you know “ the angey foreigner?”

I've heard of him, watched a video or two of his a long time ago, but that's it.

[eleganz]

Hmmm...

A bunch of "libertarians" telling me that we need to let the illegals in. On the other hand, I'm getting emails from Ron Paul to support Chris McDaniels to outlaw Sanctuary cities. You don't need to outlaw sanctuary cities without illegal immigration.

Choose one already guys, jesus..

[Danke]

I've heard of him, watched a video or two of his a long time ago, but that's it.



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3KSJY0c8QWw

He has a lot of good videos on his channel, surprise he has not been banned yet.

[Zippyjuan]

Hmmm...

A bunch of "libertarians" telling me that we need to let the illegals in. On the other hand, I'm getting emails from Ron Paul to support Chris McDaniels to outlaw Sanctuary cities. You don't need to outlaw sanctuary cities without illegal immigration.

Choose one already guys, jesus..

What does Ron say?

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/01/news/la-pn-ron-paul-nevada-latino-forum-20120201


"I believe Hispanics have been used as scapegoats, to say, they're the problem instead of being a symptom maybe of a problem with the welfare state," Paul told the group. "In Nazi Germany they had to have scapegoats to blame and they turned on the Jews.

"Now there's a lot of antagonism and resentment turned just automatically on immigrants," he continued. "You say, no not immigrants, it's just illegal immigrants. I do believe in legal immigration. I want to have a provision to obey those laws. You have to understand this in the context of the economy."

Paul said he's not one of those politicians who believes that "barbed-wire fences and guns on our border will solve any of our problems." That's not, he said, the American way. And he doesn't think that a national identification card is the way to go.

[Anti Federalist]

Must be due to all those rapists/ criminals/ murderers we have been importing.

http://cis.org/sites/cis.org/files/immigration-population-highest.png

And all we had to do is enact a massive police/prison state to keep a lid on everything.

[pcosmar]

And all we had to do is enact a massive police/prison state to keep a lid on everything.

And then Down Town will be just like the Upper Yard.

[Zippyjuan]

And all we had to do is enact a massive police/prison state to keep a lid on everything.

People here argue for an even bigger police state to deal with immigrants. Small government libertarians? Only on certain issues.

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/19/657897279/after-ice-raid-a-shortage-of-welders-in-tigertown-texas


After ICE Raid, A Shortage Of Welders In Tigertown, Texas

With new enforcement priorities under the Trump administration, Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents are taking aim at employers that knowingly hire unauthorized immigrants. The most recent — and largest — bust happened at a trailer manufacturing plant in northeast Texas.

Business had been booming at Load Trail LLC, about two hours northeast of Dallas, as customers bought the black trailers to haul hay bales, topsoil, construction refuse and oilfield equipment. Then came the ICE raid in late August.

Inside Load Trail's huge production building, welders turn raw steel into trailers, amid cacophonous clanging and showers of sparks. It's brutish labor — cut the heavy black metal, lug it into place, arc-weld it, repeat — but the production floor is nearly half-empty because of an acute shortage of welders.

Load Trail CEO Kevin Hiebert remembers the morning of Aug. 28, when a helicopter thumped overhead and 300 ICE agents swarmed into his yard. "It looked like something you would typically see in the movies," he said, "not something you ever planned on living out in real life."

ICE rounded up more than 150 employees — nearly a quarter of Hiebert's workforce — loaded them into buses and booked them for working in the country unlawfully. A criminal investigation of the company continues.

So far this year, ICE agents have stormed 7-Eleven stores, a meatpacking plant, dairy and vegetable farms and a feedlot.

The company may have to move to Mexico so they can get enough workers.


And back at Tigertown, some trailer manufacturers say that if they can't find enough welders, they would consider moving their entire operations to Mexico.


Perhaps the government should raid every business in the country and check the papers of all of their workers. We can't let anybody escape!

[Swordsmyth]

What does Ron say?

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/01/news/la-pn-ron-paul-nevada-latino-forum-20120201

Totally free immigration! I`ve never taken that position...Well, you work on both. The most important is the welfare state, but you can still beef up your borders (http://www.vdare.com/articles/the-future-that-works-despite-dubya-illegal-immigration-can-be-controlled)and get rid of some incentives for illegals. (http://www.vdare.com/articles/national-data-by-edwin-s-rubenstein-307)...Ron Paul


More at: http://www.vdare.com/articles/ron-pa...al-sovereignty (http://www.vdare.com/articles/ron-paul-i-believe-in-national-sovereignty)

Well, I start off with saying that it`s a big problem. I don`t like to get involved with the Federal Government very much, (http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=deskbar&q=site%3Alewrockwell.com+ron+paul+federal) but I do think it is a federal responsibility (http://www.vdare.com/archives/2007/09/06/republican-debate-giuliani-claims-his-sanctuary-policies-were-in-response-to-federal-failure/)to protect our borders....And that`s why I don`t think our border guards should be sent to Iraq, like we`ve done. I think we need more border guards. But to have the money and the personnel, we have to bring our troops home from Iraq. Ron Paul


More at: http://www.vdare.com/articles/ron-pa...al-sovereignty (http://www.vdare.com/articles/ron-paul-i-believe-in-national-sovereignty)

[Swordsmyth]

People here argue for an even bigger police state to deal with immigrants. Small government libertarians? Only on certain issues.

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/19/657897279/after-ice-raid-a-shortage-of-welders-in-tigertown-texas



The company may have to move to Mexico so they can get enough workers.




Perhaps the government should raid every business in the country and check the papers of all of their workers. We can't let anybody escape!
:rolleyes:

[Anti Globalist]

More guns equals less crime and murders? Who would have thought?

[Zippyjuan]

https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/shooting1_post2.png?w=940&strip=all&quality=75


The country with the second highest number per capita is Serbia, at 75.6 guns per 100 people.

https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/shooting2_post1.png?w=940&strip=all&quality=75

https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/shooting3_post2.png?w=940&strip=all&quality=75

https://qz.com/1095899/gun-ownership-in-america-in-three-charts/

We also have the most people in prisons.

[Swordsmyth]

https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/shooting1_post2.png?w=940&strip=all&quality=75

https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/shooting2_post1.png?w=940&strip=all&quality=75

https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/shooting3_post2.png?w=940&strip=all&quality=75

https://qz.com/1095899/gun-ownership-in-america-in-three-charts/

We need more guns.

[eleganz]

I guess Im very behind but has it already been confirmed that Zip is a leftist troll or something?

[Zippyjuan]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/gun-ownership-country-us-legal-firearm-citizens-statistics-a8406941.html


US citizens own 40% of all guns in world - more than next 25 top-ranked countries combined, study suggests

American citizens now own 40 per cent of all guns in the world - more than the next 25 top-ranked gun ownership countries combined - with the number only set to grow, according to new research.

According to a decade-long survey released by the Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies in Geneva, not only do Americans own the highest number of guns per capita, but also between 2006 and 2017, US gun owners acquired some 122 million new guns. That represented more than half of the 207 million new civilian-owned firearms around the world during that time.

“The biggest force pushing up gun ownership around the world is civilian ownership in the United States,” said Aaron Karp, one of the authors of the report.

Of the more than one billion firearms in the world, American citizens hold 393 million, for a population of roughly 326 million. According to the report, that is a gun ownership of 121 firearms per 100 civilians. The next highest rates are 53 in Yemen, 39 in Montenegro and Serbia, and 35 in Canada.

Japan and Indonesia on the other hand have reported rates of less than one firearm per 100 civilians.

“Ordinary American people buy approximately 14 million new and imported guns every year,” Mr Karp told a news conference at UN headquarters in New York.


With so many guns why are we so afraid? Or do we have so many guns because we are so afraid?

[eleganz]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/gun-ownership-country-us-legal-firearm-citizens-statistics-a8406941.html



With so many guns why are we so afraid? Or do we have so many guns because we are so afraid?
Zippyjuan you do realize your efforts here only push people more to the right? You are literally convincing nobody here, highly ineffective.

[Danke]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/gun-ownership-country-us-legal-firearm-citizens-statistics-a8406941.html



With so many guns why are we so afraid? Or do we have so many guns because we are so afraid?

Are you afraid of guns?

[Zippyjuan]

Are you afraid of guns?

Nope. Nor do I fear people who are not exactly like me.

[Swordsmyth]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/gun-ownership-country-us-legal-firearm-citizens-statistics-a8406941.html



With so many guns why are we so afraid? Or do we have so many guns because we are so afraid?
We are not afraid and we are even less afraid because we have guns.

Why are you afraid of us having guns?

[Zippyjuan]

We are not afraid and we are even less afraid because we have guns.

Why are you afraid of us having guns?

Then why all the excitement over some unarmed people walking across Mexico? You seem very afraid based on all the postings about them and how they may threaten the US.

[Swordsmyth]

Then why all the excitement over some unarmed people walking across Mexico? You seem very afraid based on all the postings about them and how they may threaten the US.
Being aware of threats and being afraid are two different things, we must not allow them to violate our border and contribute to your friends attempt to turn us into a communist country.

[Zippyjuan]

Being aware of threats and being afraid are two different things, we must not allow them to violate our border and contribute to your friends attempt to turn us into a communist country.

So they are a threat you are afraid of. (Fear of commies is SO 1950's). Promoting fears to divide and conquer.

[Swordsmyth]

So they are a threat you are afraid of. (Fear of commies is SO 1950's).
Being aware of a threat and being afraid are two different things and you and your commie friends are behind the times.

[enhanced_deficit]

For any pro-life experts, any corelation between OP report and this report?


Suicide rates rise sharply across the United States, new report shows
June 7
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2018/06/07/u-s-suicide-rates-rise-sharply-across-the-country-new-report-shows/

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/shooting1_post2.png?w=940&strip=all&quality=75



https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/shooting2_post1.png?w=940&strip=all&quality=75

https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/shooting3_post2.png?w=940&strip=all&quality=75

https://qz.com/1095899/gun-ownership-in-america-in-three-charts/

We also have the most people in prisons.
Gun ownership in the US runs at a Pareto distribution, and that's not surprising. It would be surprising if it didn't.