Trump Endorses Prison Reform, while throwing a wet blanket on Sessions in the process

[AuH20]

https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/10/11/donald-trump-endorses-prison-reform-jeff-sessions-overruled/


President Donald Trump endorsed prison reform on Thursday, warning Attorney General Jeff Sessions to get on board with the idea.
Trump said he is interested in reducing sentences for people like Alice Marie Johnson, a nonviolent drug offender whose life sentence the president commuted in June.

“There has to be a reform because it’s very unfair right now,” Trump said. “It’s very unfair to African Americans. It’s unfair to everybody. And it’s also very costly,” the president commented on Thursday morning in a phone interview with Fox & Friends.

[Anti Federalist]

This has been one of my "pet issues" for years now.

Let's assume something comes out of this, and reforms that include reducing plea bargain that railroad innocent people, and mandatory sentencing and abolition of capital punishment get signed into law by Trump, does that further my "warming up" to Trump?

If I voted for him based on that, would that make me a "Trump Humping" fascist and "enemy of liberty"?
devil21
TheCount
PierzStyx

[dannno]

This is what a lot of people faulted Rand for making a centerpiece of his campaign. Be more like Trump, they said.

[CaptUSA]

I'll put this in the "Trump says all sorts of shit" bucket for now... Let's hope he does something.

[Ender]

I'll put this in the "Trump says all sorts of $#@!" bucket for now... Let's hope he does something.

Amen.

[Anti Federalist]

I'll put this in the "Trump says all sorts of shit" bucket for now... Let's hope he does something.

That's all I have done since day one with this guy, after getting spanked, prediction wise, in the 2016 election.

In trying to be objective, I will give credit when he pulls something tangible out of that bucket that is a good thing.

Somehow, to some people around here, that makes me a spineless sellout or Adolph Eichmann.

If real judicial, sentencing and prison reform comes from this, that will be an unequivocal good thing.

[thoughtomator]

I'll put this in the "Trump says all sorts of $#@!" bucket for now... Let's hope he does something.

At least we've gone from reflexive anti-Trump hysteria to realizing that if he says something he may actually mean it. I'll call that progress.

[RonZeplin]

This is judicial reform, not prison reform.

[TheCount]

Must be election season.

[timosman]

The election season brings the best in people. :cool:

[Chester Copperpot]

This has been one of my "pet issues" for years now.

Let's assume something comes out of this, and reforms that include reducing plea bargain that railroad innocent people, and mandatory sentencing and abolition of capital punishment get signed into law by Trump, does that further my "warming up" to Trump?

If I voted for him based on that, would that make me a "Trump Humping" fascist and "enemy of liberty"?
devil21
TheCount
PierzStyx
Hey Im with you man.. I voted for Trump simply because he was an unknown quantity.. (we know what everybody else is already).. an unknown quantity and supposed fan of Andrew Jackson.. I voted for that.. just in case there was a chance he really wanted to end the fed.

[georgiaboy]

Trump is just another Rand Paul shill. :-)

[PierzStyx]

This has been one of my "pet issues" for years now.

Let's assume something comes out of this, and reforms that include reducing plea bargain that railroad innocent people, and mandatory sentencing and abolition of capital punishment get signed into law by Trump, does that further my "warming up" to Trump?

If I voted for him based on that, would that make me a "Trump Humping" fascist and "enemy of liberty"?
devil21
TheCount
PierzStyx

If you voted for Hitler because he promised ti improve the national roads would that make you a Nazi? No.

Would the difference matter? No. You still put him in power and you own what he does with it.

Same thing with Trump.

You want to vote for him based on the empty promise of prison reform, go right ahead. You'll just be a fool.

Prison "reform" without the legalization of marijuana, for example, is simply an illusion. And it isn't reform if you still are imprisoning people for nonviolent "crimes." All the state is doing is spending less on imprisoning them while extracting more form them in terms of fines and penalties. You'll still end up with tens of thousands of innocent people imprisoned by the State and tens of thousands more having crippling fines and sanctions placed on them for smoking a joint. It isn't reform, it is a shift in how the government extorts the people.

And while this is happening he'll carry out a multitude of evils that you will own for putting him in power to do it.

This dead girl and the tens of thousands like here?

https://media4.s-nbcnews.com/i/newscms/2017_05/1885196/170130-nora-anwar-al-awlaki-rhk-1815p_6f3454b054968b3140a7fbc6bb6bb8c9.jpg

On your head for giving Trump the power to murder her and supporting him after he did so.

The continuation of NSA spying on the American public, violating your privacy and constitutional protections?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOmwbZvVNqneQ3amyZGlKVr_vsuUvNq _WjxP8wP5o3as4prX3G

On your head for supporting him and giving him the power to do so.

The growth of the American police state and the militarization of the police?

https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/styles/blog_main_wide_580x384/public/field_image/web18-icemilitaryvan-1160x768.jpg?itok=KgQEOL9T

On your head. You vote for Trump and gave him power to do so. And you continued to support him as he did so.


The putting of judges like Brett Kavanaugh who supports torturing people, indefinite detention, and the complete destruction of the Fourth and Fifth Amendments, allowing for the power of the national security Deep State to grow even more secure?

https://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/imagecache/mbdxxlarge/mritems/Images/2018/7/10/5d3dbc631a2440b2a0e1d74a5295fc33_18.jpg

On your head for supporting Trump and continuing to support him as he supports the Deep State.

The hunting down of millions of people and their beating, robbery, caging, even killing for engaging in the "crime" of buying and selling goods and services without the licensed permission of the government to do some?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS9et8s8CIAYce9V_LOWmrOHJ03Vta6P Sjb114pB_z2dctY7bBo0g

That is upon your head for supporting Trump and giving him the power to do it.


The continuing massacre of Syrian peoples?

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/sites/sbs.com.au.news/files/styles/panoramic/public/20160821001280850608-original.jpg?itok=CHcvZSzt


It is on your head for putting Trump in power to continue the war and bloodshed.

The literal Holocaust that America is perpetuating in Yemen today?

https://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/imagecache/mbdxxlarge/mritems/Images/2017/10/2/cbd4db9636984089b9eeb9ecc09ca9be_18.jpg


On your head for putting Trump in power and continuing to support him while he does it.

I could keep going on. But if Trump's support for the growth of the American police state, the militarization of the police, the securing of the power of the Deep State, the utter contempt with which he treats the US Constitution, the promotion of terrorism, the destruction of nations, the Holocaust of Yemen, to say nothing of teh fact that his economic policies are straight out of FDR's Progressive Economics Playbook, all for "prison reform"? If your soul can be sold for so little?

Then yeah, fuck you. You're not just an enemy of liberty, you're an enemy of humanity itself. With your willingness to support warlords who use violence to murder and maintain power, to rule with blood and horror upon the Earth, you couldn't be anything else. And since you claim to be awoken to the truth and a "friend of liberty" you don't even have a cloak of ignorance to hide your sins behind as the rest of the sheeple do.

[jkr]

WINNING!


if we get everything we want, does it matter if Ron was never "president"?

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

In a sane society, there would be very few people in prisons. People on drugs or addicted to prostitutes or gambling would be helped by churches and other institutions. Murderers, rapists and pedophiles would be executed in a timely fashion instead of twenty years after being convicted.

[Jamesiv1]

If you voted for Hitler because he promised ti improve the national roads would that make you a Nazi? No.

Would the difference matter? No. You still put him in power and you own what he does with it.

Same thing with Trump.

You want to vote for him based on the empty promise of prison reform, go right ahead. You'll just be a fool.

Prison "reform" without the legalization of marijuana, for example, is simply an illusion. And it isn't reform if you still are imprisoning people for nonviolent "crimes." All the state is doing is spending less on imprisoning them while extracting more form them in terms of fines and penalties. You'll still end up with tens of thousands of innocent people imprisoned by the State and tens of thousands more having crippling fines and sanctions placed on them for smoking a joint. It isn't reform, it is a shift in how the government extorts the people.

And while this is happening he'll carry out a multitude of evils that you will own for putting him in power to do it.

This dead girl and the tens of thousands like here?

https://media4.s-nbcnews.com/i/newscms/2017_05/1885196/170130-nora-anwar-al-awlaki-rhk-1815p_6f3454b054968b3140a7fbc6bb6bb8c9.jpg

On your head for giving Trump the power to murder her and supporting him after he did so.

The continuation of NSA spying on the American public, violating your privacy and constitutional protections?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOmwbZvVNqneQ3amyZGlKVr_vsuUvNq _WjxP8wP5o3as4prX3G

On your head for supporting him and giving him the power to do so.

The growth of the American police state and the militarization of the police?

https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/styles/blog_main_wide_580x384/public/field_image/web18-icemilitaryvan-1160x768.jpg?itok=KgQEOL9T

On your head. You vote for Trump and gave him power to do so. And you continued to support him as he did so.


The putting of judges like Brett Kavanaugh who supports torturing people, indefinite detention, and the complete destruction of the Fourth and Fifth Amendments, allowing for the power of the national security Deep State to grow even more secure?

https://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/imagecache/mbdxxlarge/mritems/Images/2018/7/10/5d3dbc631a2440b2a0e1d74a5295fc33_18.jpg

On your head for supporting Trump and continuing to support him as he supports the Deep State.

The hunting down of millions of people and their beating, robbery, caging, even killing for engaging in the "crime" of buying and selling goods and services without the licensed permission of the government to do some?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS9et8s8CIAYce9V_LOWmrOHJ03Vta6P Sjb114pB_z2dctY7bBo0g

That is upon your head for supporting Trump and giving him the power to do it.


The continuing massacre of Syrian peoples?

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/sites/sbs.com.au.news/files/styles/panoramic/public/20160821001280850608-original.jpg?itok=CHcvZSzt


It is on your head for putting Trump in power to continue the war and bloodshed.

The literal Holocaust that America is perpetuating in Yemen today?

https://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/imagecache/mbdxxlarge/mritems/Images/2017/10/2/cbd4db9636984089b9eeb9ecc09ca9be_18.jpg


On your head for putting Trump in power and continuing to support him while he does it.

I could keep going on. But if Trump's support for the growth of the American police state, the militarization of the police, the securing of the power of the Deep State, the utter contempt with which he treats the US Constitution, the promotion of terrorism, the destruction of nations, the Holocaust of Yemen, to say nothing of teh fact that his economic policies are straight out of FDR's Progressive Economics Playbook, all for "prison reform"? If your soul can be sold for so little?

Then yeah, fuck you. You're not just an enemy of liberty, you're an enemy of humanity itself. With your willingness to support warlords who use violence to murder and maintain power, to rule with blood and horror upon the Earth, you couldn't be anything else. And since you claim to be awoken to the truth and a "friend of liberty" you don't even have a cloak of ignorance to hide your sins behind as the rest of the sheeple do.
You sir, are no lover of liberty.

You might want to do some research before you embarrass yourself again.

[homahr]

Why would any one on this forum care if foreign Muslim children die? This is of no concern to the majority here.

[specsaregood]

Why would any one on this forum care if foreign Muslim children die? This is of no concern to the majority here.

It costs us money though, that is a concern.

[homahr]

It costs us money though, that is a concern.

So if it didn't cost "us" money, it would be ok?

[AuH20]

Why would any one on this forum care if foreign Muslim children die? This is of no concern to the majority here.

As long as my government isn't aiding in the killing, I don't care. We have far larger problems, since we are next on the extermination list.

We are all Kulaks, but some are blind to this fact.

https://media.reason.com/mc/_external/2015_02/-frontpage.jpg?h=350&w=266

[devil21]

I'll put this in the "Trump says all sorts of shit" bucket for now... Let's hope he does something.

There's always that consideration, however, I look at this in the perspective that if there will be more police state intrusion and ramping up of things like stop-and-frisk then you better reform the judicial system to handle the huge new load of cases that such intrusive policing will bring. Cops being much more aggressive will naturally mean more citations and arrests. Changing bail structures and incarceration/sentencing guidelines becomes a requirement so that the justice system doesn't collapse upon itself from the sheer weight of increased volume.

It essentially turns the justice system into a pure revenue generating machine, which is important for state and local jurisdictions that will need more locally sourced money to replace Uncle Sugar's drying up money printer as dollar reserve status dies, and away from the incarceration model. Less people being locked up is a good thing generally. Sucking more of their meager earnings away via petty "quality of life" policing isn't.

[specsaregood]

So if it didn't cost "us" money, it would be ok?

That seems to be your POV; I said nothing of the sort.

[Cleaner44]

This has been one of my "pet issues" for years now.

Let's assume something comes out of this, and reforms that include reducing plea bargain that railroad innocent people, and mandatory sentencing and abolition of capital punishment get signed into law by Trump, does that further my "warming up" to Trump?

If I voted for him based on that, would that make me a "Trump Humping" fascist and "enemy of liberty"?
devil21
TheCount
PierzStyx

If Trump does improve this situation, that would be a good thing and he would deserve credit for that. I love my libertarian family here but I really don't care if a fellow member wants to bust my balls for appreciating Trump for doing a good thing. I would love to have a libertarian president making gains with libertarian philosophy, but meanwhile I value a capitalist kicking the ass of Marxists.



That's all I have done since day one with this guy, after getting spanked, prediction wise, in the 2016 election.

In trying to be objective, I will give credit when he pulls something tangible out of that bucket that is a good thing.

Somehow, to some people around here, that makes me a spineless sellout or Adolph Eichmann.

If real judicial, sentencing and prison reform comes from this, that will be an unequivocal good thing.

Trump already pulled something tangible out of that bucket when he lowered our taxes and eliminated the Obamacare mandate.

The thing I notice about Trump is that he actually works. He isn't a life long government employee that just gives lip service. You don't get real estate developed in Manhattan just running your mouth. As much as I love Ron Paul, I don't know that he could execute as much work as Trump does in the White House. I think the deep state might overcome Ron Paul, but with Trump they have their hands full. I can only speculate, but our enemies are formidable and Trump has a strength to match their fight that most don't have.

I certainly am no fan of Trump nonsense like supporting "Stop and Frisk" and I don't think he values the Constitution like any of us here do. I do think he makes a point to listen to input from many others and their different points of view. Maybe just maybe that will lead to him change his mind after listening to people like Kanye West.

At this point I think his positives are out weighing his negatives.

The Marxists left is getting their ass whooped and that is good for America no matter what. This is changing the course of the U.S. for the better for many decades to come. Too bad for the globalists like Hillary and Jeb!

[phill4paul]

This has been one of my "pet issues" for years now.

Let's assume something comes out of this, and reforms that include reducing plea bargain that railroad innocent people, and mandatory sentencing and abolition of capital punishment get signed into law by Trump, does that further my "warming up" to Trump?

If I voted for him based on that, would that make me a "Trump Humping" fascist and "enemy of liberty"?
devil21
TheCount
PierzStyx

Sure ya would, bud. It's libertarian min-archy or nothing! Let's do a sign wave!

[dannno]

Prison "reform" without the legalization of marijuana, for example, is simply an illusion.

Trump Administration Seeks Public Comments On Marijuana Reclassificationhttp://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?527317-Trump-Administration-Seeks-Public-Comments-On-Marijuana-Reclassification



Oh, and thanks for all the George Soros propaganda.... promoting George Soros propaganda will definitely lead to more liberty :rolleyes:

[devil21]

Trump Administration Seeks Public Comments On Marijuana Reclassificationhttp://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?527317-Trump-Administration-Seeks-Public-Comments-On-Marijuana-Reclassification



Oh, and thanks for all the George Soros propaganda.... promoting George Soros propaganda will definitely lead to more liberty :rolleyes:

Federal guidelines on cannabis are definitely going to change, but for the same reasons I detailed in my above post. More revenue for state and local governments that choose to legalize. It will be an interesting collision between changing police tactics ("I smell weed so now I search your car" no longer flies) and overall more intrusive policing for everything else.

[TheCount]

Let's assume something comes out of this, and reforms that include reducing plea bargain that railroad innocent people, and mandatory sentencing and abolition of capital punishment get signed into law by Trump, does that further my "warming up" to Trump?

If I voted for him based on that, would that make me a "Trump Humping" fascist and "enemy of liberty"?
If you support someone based on a genuine expectation that they will act in direct opposition to all of their previous (historical and recent) behavior on the same topic, you're not a Trump humper or an enemy of liberty, you're just gullible.

[Anti Federalist]

Then yeah, fuck you. You're not just an enemy of liberty, you're an enemy of humanity itself. With your willingness to support warlords who use violence to murder and maintain power, to rule with blood and horror upon the Earth, you couldn't be anything else. And since you claim to be awoken to the truth and a "friend of liberty" you don't even have a cloak of ignorance to hide your sins behind as the rest of the sheeple do.

OK, got it, I'm a murderous Nazi as well as a racist, bigoted, homophobe, Islamaphobe and whatever else you can pin on me.

Enjoy your purity and ivory tower, while I, and groups I support like the Innocence Project, get real people out of real trouble.

[Anti Federalist]

If you support someone based on a genuine expectation that they will act in direct opposition to all of their previous (historical and recent) behavior on the same topic, you're not a Trump humper or an enemy of liberty, you're just gullible.

I'm giving him credit precisely because he is acting in an opposite fashion to what he has advocated in the past.

[Anti Federalist]

At this point I think his positives are out weighing his negatives.

The Marxists left is getting their ass whooped and that is good for America no matter what. This is changing the course of the U.S. for the better for many decades to come. Too bad for the globalists like Hillary and Jeb!

That's all I'm saying as well.

Somehow that makes us worse than Hitler.

Get back to me when he annexes Quebec or Tijuana with tanks.

[Anti Federalist]

Trump Administration Seeks Public Comments On Marijuana Reclassificationhttp://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?527317-Trump-Administration-Seeks-Public-Comments-On-Marijuana-Reclassification

Oh, and thanks for all the George Soros propaganda.... promoting George Soros propaganda will definitely lead to more liberty :rolleyes:

So federal decriminalization of weed is Nazism too, huh?

[TheCount]

I'm giving him credit precisely because he is acting in an opposite fashion to what he has advocated in the past.

Acting? Or talking?

[Ender]

Trump Administration Seeks Public Comments On Marijuana Reclassificationhttp://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?527317-Trump-Administration-Seeks-Public-Comments-On-Marijuana-Reclassification



Oh, and thanks for all the George Soros propaganda.... promoting George Soros propaganda will definitely lead to more liberty :rolleyes:

George Soros.....you mean the guy that funded Trump Tower?

[Ender]

That's all I'm saying as well.

Somehow that makes us worse than Hitler.

Get back to me when he annexes Quebec or Tijuana with tanks.

I'll take Trump more seriously when he stops the BS with Iran. Until then, he's just Mr Mass Manipulative NeoCon to me.

[PierzStyx]

If Trump does improve this situation, that would be a good thing and he would deserve credit for that. I love my libertarian family here but I really don't care if a fellow member wants to bust my balls for appreciating Trump for doing a good thing. I would love to have a libertarian president making gains with libertarian philosophy, but meanwhile I value a capitalist kicking the ass of Marxists.


If you value capitalism then in no way can you value Trump. His $12 billion dollar bailouts of people being destroyed by his economic protectionism stinks far more of FDR than it does Adam Smith. The man isn't a Marxist, just a National Socialist.

[PierzStyx]

Trump Administration Seeks Public Comments On Marijuana Reclassificationhttp://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?527317-Trump-Administration-Seeks-Public-Comments-On-Marijuana-Reclassification



Oh, and thanks for all the George Soros propaganda.... promoting George Soros propaganda will definitely lead to more liberty :rolleyes:

Oooooooooo, the government wants your opinion. That must mean SOMETHING IMPORTANT. After all, the government neeeeever does something the "people" don't want. Right? Riiiiight?

Get outta here with that garbage.

You're a great example of exactly what I'm talking about. You don't give a single bit about liberty. You're just a mark, thinking and doing what you're told to think and do by your Republican Overlords. You're a perfect example of an Outer Party Member. What you're told to think is "fact" and anything else is "propaganda" and never will you confuse the two. The destruction of life and liberty continues apace and instead of having your face crushed beneath the boot you've opted for licking it.

[dannno]

Oooooooooo, the government wants your opinion. That must mean SOMETHING IMPORTANT. After all, the government neeeeever does something the "people" don't want. Right? Riiiiight?

Get outta here with that garbage.

You're a great example of exactly what I'm talking about. You don't give a single bit about liberty. You're just a mark, thinking and doing what you're told to think and do by your Republican Overlords. You're a perfect example of an Outer Party Member. What you're told to think is "fact" and anything else is "propaganda" and never will you confuse the two. The destruction of life and liberty continues apace and instead of having your face crushed beneath the boot you've opted for licking it.

Will you apologize for this if Trump legalizes cannabis federally?

Or will you continue to act like an insane person?

[PierzStyx]

OK, got it, I'm a murderous Nazi as well as a racist, bigoted, homophobe, Islamaphobe and whatever else you can pin on me.

Enjoy your purity and ivory tower, while I, and groups I support like the Innocence Project, get real people out of real trouble.

Ah, that old attack by the baseless hypocrite. Treating people actually standing for human liberty as if they're fools while pretending supporting the powers that rape, pillage, murder and enslave at will as a virtue is one of the most foolish and stupid arguments you can muster. That it is the best you can develop simply demonstrates my argument was correct and you're incapable of saying otherwise. You know these are the things Trump is doing and you know you helped place him in power to do them and you know that you've continued to support him despite the fact that he has continued the destruction of life and liberty apace.

You cannot deny the reality of your role in his actions. And so you don't even try. Instead you try and make others appear weak for opposing them. Well, let me speak plain. If standing for human dignity and liberty is too "purist" to you then you're so full of crap you're eyes must be brown. That basic human liberty is too much for you to support just demonstrates how much of an enemy to liberty you are, despite your virtue signalling otherwise.

And in case you somehow missed it in my original post. I didn't say you were "a murderous Nazi as well as a racist, bigoted, homophobe, Islamaphobe" or anything else. You don't have to be. All you have to do is support and empower those who actively are. Whether you are or are not is irrelevant compared to the outcome of your actions. Most Germans weren't Nazis either. They merely allowed the Nazis to exist and rule. The difference was meaningless for those in the gas chambers.

[PierzStyx]

Will you apologize for this if Trump legalizes cannabis federally?

Or will you continue to act like an insane person?


Questioning the government and its motives is "insane"?

Typical Progressive boot licking confirmed. I bet you also believe questioning authority is a "mental disorder."

[jmdrake]

This has been one of my "pet issues" for years now.

Let's assume something comes out of this, and reforms that include reducing plea bargain that railroad innocent people, and mandatory sentencing and abolition of capital punishment get signed into law by Trump, does that further my "warming up" to Trump?

If I voted for him based on that, would that make me a "Trump Humping" fascist and "enemy of liberty"?
devil21
TheCount
PierzStyx

Well I'm not on your list of "mentions." And I don't personally recall calling you any of that. (Which I guess is why you didn't call me out). And I am 100% fine with supporting Trump when he does something that's actually pro liberty or non interventionist like reaching out to North Korea or attempting to roll back the so called affordable care act. And you have not been one of those making excuses for Trump on the 2nd amendment. That said, I don't personally believe that expanding police powers in the so constitution free zone that is our border or building a wall is good for liberty. I understand your reasoning on that, I just disagree with it.

[jmdrake]

If you voted for Hitler because he promised ti improve the national roads would that make you a Nazi? No.

Would the difference matter? No. You still put him in power and you own what he does with it.

Same thing with Trump.

You want to vote for him based on the empty promise of prison reform, go right ahead. You'll just be a fool.

Prison "reform" without the legalization of marijuana, for example, is simply an illusion. And it isn't reform if you still are imprisoning people for nonviolent "crimes." All the state is doing is spending less on imprisoning them while extracting more form them in terms of fines and penalties. You'll still end up with tens of thousands of innocent people imprisoned by the State and tens of thousands more having crippling fines and sanctions placed on them for smoking a joint. It isn't reform, it is a shift in how the government extorts the people.

And while this is happening he'll carry out a multitude of evils that you will own for putting him in power to do it.

This dead girl and the tens of thousands like here?

https://media4.s-nbcnews.com/i/newscms/2017_05/1885196/170130-nora-anwar-al-awlaki-rhk-1815p_6f3454b054968b3140a7fbc6bb6bb8c9.jpg

On your head for giving Trump the power to murder her and supporting him after he did so.

The continuation of NSA spying on the American public, violating your privacy and constitutional protections?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOmwbZvVNqneQ3amyZGlKVr_vsuUvNq _WjxP8wP5o3as4prX3G

On your head for supporting him and giving him the power to do so.

The growth of the American police state and the militarization of the police?

https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/styles/blog_main_wide_580x384/public/field_image/web18-icemilitaryvan-1160x768.jpg?itok=KgQEOL9T

On your head. You vote for Trump and gave him power to do so. And you continued to support him as he did so.


The putting of judges like Brett Kavanaugh who supports torturing people, indefinite detention, and the complete destruction of the Fourth and Fifth Amendments, allowing for the power of the national security Deep State to grow even more secure?

https://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/imagecache/mbdxxlarge/mritems/Images/2018/7/10/5d3dbc631a2440b2a0e1d74a5295fc33_18.jpg

On your head for supporting Trump and continuing to support him as he supports the Deep State.

The hunting down of millions of people and their beating, robbery, caging, even killing for engaging in the "crime" of buying and selling goods and services without the licensed permission of the government to do some?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS9et8s8CIAYce9V_LOWmrOHJ03Vta6P Sjb114pB_z2dctY7bBo0g

That is upon your head for supporting Trump and giving him the power to do it.


The continuing massacre of Syrian peoples?

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/sites/sbs.com.au.news/files/styles/panoramic/public/20160821001280850608-original.jpg?itok=CHcvZSzt


It is on your head for putting Trump in power to continue the war and bloodshed.

The literal Holocaust that America is perpetuating in Yemen today?

https://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/imagecache/mbdxxlarge/mritems/Images/2017/10/2/cbd4db9636984089b9eeb9ecc09ca9be_18.jpg


On your head for putting Trump in power and continuing to support him while he does it.

I could keep going on. But if Trump's support for the growth of the American police state, the militarization of the police, the securing of the power of the Deep State, the utter contempt with which he treats the US Constitution, the promotion of terrorism, the destruction of nations, the Holocaust of Yemen, to say nothing of teh fact that his economic policies are straight out of FDR's Progressive Economics Playbook, all for "prison reform"? If your soul can be sold for so little?

Then yeah, $#@! you. You're not just an enemy of liberty, you're an enemy of humanity itself. With your willingness to support warlords who use violence to murder and maintain power, to rule with blood and horror upon the Earth, you couldn't be anything else. And since you claim to be awoken to the truth and a "friend of liberty" you don't even have a cloak of ignorance to hide your sins behind as the rest of the sheeple do.

*Sigh* Take a deep breath. This shows why partisan politics, and even personality politics is toxic. Criminal justice reform is an unqualified good thing. We're not talking about "muh roads" or "muh healthcare" or even "muh border wall." We're talking about reducing the harm that government has already caused. That should be encouraged by people of good will, democrats and republicans. That was making its way through congress. I doubt that will happen this year, in large part because the democrats and the media have made the political environment so toxic. Now you might say "Well what about Trump's toxicity?" Well...what about it? I'm expecting that. The man is an ass. But democrats and republicans could have just ignored the man on this one issue, got it done and let him sign it. As for the drug war? I haven't seen Trump attempt to rollback any of the gains recently made in undoing it. Yes Jeff Sessions is a hard core drug warrior. I wish Jeff Sessions wasn't attorney general. Trump seems to feel the same, but can't fire him because it would look like he was doing it out of spite for Jeff recusing himself on the Russia probe. I saw the picture of the Al Awlawki girl. Yes that was tragic. Obama killed her dad and brother with drone strikes. Obama also bombed the "Doctors Without Borders" in Afghanistan. I'm against Trump when he is wrong (which is often) and was against Obama when he was wrong (which is often). When Obama rarely did something right I actually gave him due credit for doing that.

[dannno]

Questioning the government and its motives is "insane"?

Typical Progressive boot licking confirmed. I bet you also believe questioning authority is a "mental disorder."

I asked you a god damn crystal clear fucking question and you won't answer it.

WILL YOU APOLOGIZE TO ME FOR THAT COMMENT IF TRUMP LEGALIZES CANNABIS?

Or will you continue to act like an insane person?

I've had "QUESTION AUTHORITY" bumper stickers on my binders since you were in fucking diapers.

[Swordsmyth]

If you value capitalism then in no way can you value Trump. His $12 billion dollar bailouts of people being destroyed by his economic protectionism stinks far more of FDR than it does Adam Smith. The man isn't a Marxist, just a National Socialist.
He is far from perfect but he is moving us in the right direction.

[PierzStyx]

I asked you a god damn crystal clear $#@!ing question and you won't answer it.

WILL YOU APOLOGIZE TO ME FOR THAT COMMENT IF TRUMP LEGALIZES CANNABIS?

Or will you continue to act like an insane person?

I've had "QUESTION AUTHORITY" bumper stickers on my binders since you were in $#@!ing diapers.


Sure you "question authority." If you didn't ask it what it wants you to do, how would you know what the think or how to act?

Donald Trump can murder thousands of innocent people but as long as he lets you smoke weed you're happy.

And you call me the insane one.

Of course actually questioning authority is something you would label as crazy.

[dannno]

Donald Trump can murder thousands of innocent people but as long as he lets you smoke weed you're happy.


Murdering thousands of people and not throwing innocent people in jail for weed > Murdering thousands of people and also throwing innocent people in jail for weed

You don't understand the concept of a spectrum.

5% income tax > 95% income tax

However, you will find that you are wrong about Trump when he starts bringing troops home.

[PierzStyx]

He is far from perfect but he is moving us in the right direction.

Swordsmyth's "right direction"

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/ARgX9sccl4NBUM9m-wg0SmdZW-s=/0x0:3000x2000/1200x800/filters:focal(1496x336:1976x816)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/60785515/GettyImages_1013854916.0.jpg

Another example:

https://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/imagecache/mbdxxlarge/mritems/Images/2017/1/2/b04d181fb3e2430fac80a228be84696f_18.jpg

Yet another example:

https://www.iraqinews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/00ass_388836696.jpg

And a final one: The growth of the power of the Deep State is "the right direction."


http://thewashingtonstandard.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/kavanaugh-4th-amendment.jpg


Yeah, that is some "progress" you've delivered, Progressive.

[Jamesiv1]

The mess the country is in has been 100 years in the making, and people think a president can get in there and just undo all the bad stuff lickity-split.

Cut him a little slack, I say. He's doing his best to do what he feels is right for USAmericans. Can't say that about probably any president in the past 100 years.

I'm satisfied so far. The ball is definitely moving in the right direction, in my opinion.

[PierzStyx]

Murdering thousands of people and not throwing innocent people in jail for weed > Murdering thousands of people and also throwing innocent people in jail for weed

You don't understand the concept of a spectrum.

5% income tax > 95% income tax

However, you will find that you are wrong about Trump when he starts bringing troops home.

Like I said, jails are expensive. Instead they'll just destroy your life through fines and extortion. That is oh so more civilized.

Not that you're thinking is in any case logical to start with. I mean the retort is stupidly obvious to anyone who isn't a government shill.

Not supporting the murder of thousands or imprisoning people for smoking weed> Supporting the murder of thousands but making weed legal.

My stance is better than yours no matter how you cut it. And no matter how you cut it you willing chose to support mass murder.

There is no spectrum. That isn't how democracy works. You don't get to claim that you support one thing but not the other. When you vote for someone you empower them to do whatever they can do, no matter what it is. You own their choices. And you chose to support a mass murderer. Who wasn't even promising to let you smoke weed at the time! And now you own his choices to kill.

You can't even claim there weren't other choices. There were plenty who weren't warmongers. But you willingly chose to one vowing to murder thousands of innocent people. And yet you, who openly embrace mass murder as justifiable in any manner, call me crazy for opposing both.

All you are is a government shill. Keep licking those boots. The state thugs need to get the blood of the innocent off them somehow.

[PierzStyx]

*Sigh* Take a deep breath. This shows why partisan politics, and even personality politics is toxic.

I respectfully disagree. The fact that so many "good people" will openly embrace a mass murderer because he promises to maybe throw them a bone? That is evil. And that shows why partisan politics is toxic. It doesn't matter how good you are if, in the end, you authorize overwhelming evil.

Criminal justice reform is an unqualified good thing.

If you free 1,000 people from prison but murder 8,000 innocent people in the process, is that an "unqualified good" to you? I don't think so. An unqualified good would be opposing mass slaughter and enacting prison reform. The ends do not justify the means and there is nothing good about murder.

We're not talking about "muh roads" or "muh healthcare" or even "muh border wall." We're talking about reducing the harm that government has already caused. That should be encouraged by people of good will, democrats and republicans. That was making its way through congress. I doubt that will happen this year, in large part because the democrats and the media have made the political environment so toxic.

I doubt it will ever happen. Trump is just trying to get some goodwill going into an election cycle that looks extremely hard for Republicans.

Now you might say "Well what about Trump's toxicity?" Well...what about it? I'm expecting that. The man is an ass. But democrats and republicans could have just ignored the man on this one issue, got it done and let him sign it. As for the drug war? I haven't seen Trump attempt to rollback any of the gains recently made in undoing it. Yes Jeff Sessions is a hard core drug warrior. I wish Jeff Sessions wasn't attorney general. Trump seems to feel the same, but can't fire him because it would look like he was doing it out of spite for Jeff recusing himself on the Russia probe. I saw the picture of the Al Awlawki girl. Yes that was tragic. Obama killed her dad and brother with drone strikes. Obama also bombed the "Doctors Without Borders" in Afghanistan. I'm against Trump when he is wrong (which is often) and was against Obama when he was wrong (which is often). When Obama rarely did something right I actually gave him due credit for doing that.

I don't care if Trump is an asshole or not. The problem is the results of his actions. The fact that he knows how to throw the exact bone you need to win your support when he is carrying out a Holocaust in Yemen, murdering people in Afghanistan, placing Supreme Court justices on the stand who vow to shred the Constitution, and every other evil, just means he knows how to play you like a fiddle.

[jmdrake]

I don't care if Trump is an $#@! or not. The problem is the results of his actions. The fact that he knows how to throw the exact bone you need to win your support when he is carrying out a Holocaust in Yemen, murdering people in Afghanistan, placing Supreme Court justices on the stand who vow to shred the Constitution, and every other evil, just means he knows how to play you like a fiddle.

He hasn't won my support. I didn't vote for him the first time. I won't vote for him the next time. I support policies, not politicians. Prison reform is a good policy. And it is a good policy that, when enacted, will shrink the size of the federal government. I oppose Trumps border wall because that expands the size of the federal government. Your Hitler analogy was illogical because in your example Hitler was winning support by growing the government, not shrinking it. A more apt analogy would be would I support Hitler's successor, had Hitler won the war, closing down at least some of the concentration camps and freeing the prisoners. Trump didn't start the wars in Afghanistan or Yemen nor did he pass and/or defend the Patriot Act, which is what gutted the 4th amendment, nor did he pass the Clinton crime bill which is the driving force behind mass incarceration. My main criticisms of Obama is the new evils he did, like the wars in Libya and Syria, as opposed to the evil he inherited from a previous president. And exception to that is the Obama administration bombing the Doctors Without Borders hospital because that is especially heinous. Thank you for pointing out the little girl that died in Yemen. Sorry to hear about that. But that doesn't come close to the level of bombing a freaking hospital! It's unlikely that the little girl was the primary target. The pilots who bombed the hospital were recorded saying "This is probably a war crime." And before you say "I don't support Obama either" I'm not saying that you do. I'm talking about how I judge presidents which is on individual actions. And this individual action by Trump will be an unqualified good thing if he happens to pull it off. Emphasis on the word if. Trump is already getting opposition from Republicans like Jeff Sessions who want to "lock em up and throw away the key." And democrats are sabotaging and effort that would be good for their own constituents because they are afraid of losing them. Libertarians are supposed to put principle over everything. Ron Paul, no friend of Trump, supports Trump when he actually does something right. I am doing the same thing.

[Anti Federalist]

Well I'm not on your list of "mentions." And I don't personally recall calling you any of that. (Which I guess is why you didn't call me out). And I am 100% fine with supporting Trump when he does something that's actually pro liberty or non interventionist like reaching out to North Korea or attempting to roll back the so called affordable care act. And you have not been one of those making excuses for Trump on the 2nd amendment. That said, I don't personally believe that expanding police powers in the so constitution free zone that is our border or building a wall is good for liberty. I understand your reasoning on that, I just disagree with it.

You guessed right.

That's all I'm doing, is pointing out where he is doing right and should be encouraged or supported.


That said, I don't personally believe that expanding police powers in the so constitution free zone that is our border or building a wall is good for liberty. I understand your reasoning on that, I just disagree with it.

And I can dig that, reasonable people can reasonably disagree.

For the record, I think police power could be reduced, significantly, while still addressing the issue of who is allowed into the country, for what reasons, and what to do with people who ignore those reasons.

[Anti Federalist]

Libertarians are supposed to put principle over everything. Ron Paul, no friend of Trump, supports Trump when he actually does something right. I am doing the same thing.

It's really no more difficult than that.

[Swordsmyth]

Swordsmyth's "right direction"

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/ARgX9sccl4NBUM9m-wg0SmdZW-s=/0x0:3000x2000/1200x800/filters:focal(1496x336:1976x816)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/60785515/GettyImages_1013854916.0.jpg

Another example:

https://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/imagecache/mbdxxlarge/mritems/Images/2017/1/2/b04d181fb3e2430fac80a228be84696f_18.jpg

Yet another example:

https://www.iraqinews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/00ass_388836696.jpg

And a final one: The growth of the power of the Deep State is "the right direction."


http://thewashingtonstandard.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/kavanaugh-4th-amendment.jpg


Yeah, that is some "progress" you've delivered, Progressive.
No, that is part of the "far from perfect".

Idiot.

[dannno]

Sure you "question authority." If you didn't ask it what it wants you to do, how would you know what the think or how to act?

Donald Trump can murder thousands of innocent people but as long as he lets you smoke weed you're happy.

And you call me the insane one.

Of course actually questioning authority is something you would label as crazy.

Upon further reflection, the reason legalizing cannabis is important is because there is a central debate taking place on these forums that are all in the same vein.

The idea is that Trump is extremely vulnerable because he has the media and the deep state all fighting him at every step.

He cannot legally do all of the things he wants all at once.

People on my side claim that Trump wants to end the wars, as he has stated many times, and that he wants to allow states to legalize cannabis, he wants to get out of entangling alliances militarily and environmentally, get out of the unfair trade deals, drastically reduce regulations and government bureaucracy, audit the Fed, get rid of Obamacare and obtain many other goals that we all share.

People on your side claim that, for example, Trump said he wanted to allow states to legalize cannabis however he chose Jeff Sessions so he does not want to, or will not, legalize cannabis at the federal level.

Our side claims that Trump had other goals with hiring Sessions, 37D chess or whatever you want to call it, and that cannabis will be safe and in due time will likely be legitimized by his administration.

Your side said we were crazy for thinking that.

So if cannabis is legalized, then that sort of puts a dent in your argument.

It doesn't mean Trump is going to bring all the troops home from around the world the next day, but it shows that Trump is working toward some of the goals that we share and that some of the actions he has taken in hiring early term cabinet members can easily be mischaracterized and used to try and prove that Trump doesn't want to eventually tackle those goals at some point during his administration.

[UWDude]

Oooooooooo, the government wants your opinion. That must mean SOMETHING IMPORTANT. After all, the government neeeeever does something the "people" don't want. Right? Riiiiight?

Get outta here with that garbage.

You're a great example of exactly what I'm talking about. You don't give a single bit about liberty. You're just a mark, thinking and doing what you're told to think and do by your Republican Overlords. You're a perfect example of an Outer Party Member. What you're told to think is "fact" and anything else is "propaganda" and never will you confuse the two. The destruction of life and liberty continues apace and instead of having your face crushed beneath the boot you've opted for licking it.

You sure like to define people a lot, and tell them how they actually think.
It's kind of like your shtick.

[UWDude]

I don't care if Trump is an $#@! or not. The problem is the results of his actions. The fact that he knows how to throw the exact bone you need to win your support when he is carrying out a Holocaust in Yemen, murdering people in Afghanistan, placing Supreme Court justices on the stand who vow to shred the Constitution, and every other evil, just means he knows how to play you like a fiddle.

World's going to hell.
I say more anger and hate is the answer.

[Anti Federalist]

Well, it's a good thing I didn't vote for him then, isn't it?

Because, if you were paying attention, you'd have seen I wrote in Ron Paul, and posted pics of my ballot, in 2016.

So, whydontcha go play in traffic and take you leftist virtue signaling with you.

As your argument is the exact same argument the Bolshevik left is using against the 2nd Amendment and people that support it.

I would happily man the border myself and defend the Republic and shoot to kill if the invaders crossed the line and I would sleep well at night.





If you voted for Hitler because he promised ti improve the national roads would that make you a Nazi? No.

Would the difference matter? No. You still put him in power and you own what he does with it.

Same thing with Trump.

You want to vote for him based on the empty promise of prison reform, go right ahead. You'll just be a fool.

Prison "reform" without the legalization of marijuana, for example, is simply an illusion. And it isn't reform if you still are imprisoning people for nonviolent "crimes." All the state is doing is spending less on imprisoning them while extracting more form them in terms of fines and penalties. You'll still end up with tens of thousands of innocent people imprisoned by the State and tens of thousands more having crippling fines and sanctions placed on them for smoking a joint. It isn't reform, it is a shift in how the government extorts the people.

And while this is happening he'll carry out a multitude of evils that you will own for putting him in power to do it.

This dead girl and the tens of thousands like here?

https://media4.s-nbcnews.com/i/newscms/2017_05/1885196/170130-nora-anwar-al-awlaki-rhk-1815p_6f3454b054968b3140a7fbc6bb6bb8c9.jpg

On your head for giving Trump the power to murder her and supporting him after he did so.

The continuation of NSA spying on the American public, violating your privacy and constitutional protections?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOmwbZvVNqneQ3amyZGlKVr_vsuUvNq _WjxP8wP5o3as4prX3G

On your head for supporting him and giving him the power to do so.

The growth of the American police state and the militarization of the police?

https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/styles/blog_main_wide_580x384/public/field_image/web18-icemilitaryvan-1160x768.jpg?itok=KgQEOL9T

On your head. You vote for Trump and gave him power to do so. And you continued to support him as he did so.


The putting of judges like Brett Kavanaugh who supports torturing people, indefinite detention, and the complete destruction of the Fourth and Fifth Amendments, allowing for the power of the national security Deep State to grow even more secure?

https://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/imagecache/mbdxxlarge/mritems/Images/2018/7/10/5d3dbc631a2440b2a0e1d74a5295fc33_18.jpg

On your head for supporting Trump and continuing to support him as he supports the Deep State.

The hunting down of millions of people and their beating, robbery, caging, even killing for engaging in the "crime" of buying and selling goods and services without the licensed permission of the government to do some?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS9et8s8CIAYce9V_LOWmrOHJ03Vta6P Sjb114pB_z2dctY7bBo0g

That is upon your head for supporting Trump and giving him the power to do it.


The continuing massacre of Syrian peoples?

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/sites/sbs.com.au.news/files/styles/panoramic/public/20160821001280850608-original.jpg?itok=CHcvZSzt


It is on your head for putting Trump in power to continue the war and bloodshed.

The literal Holocaust that America is perpetuating in Yemen today?

https://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/imagecache/mbdxxlarge/mritems/Images/2017/10/2/cbd4db9636984089b9eeb9ecc09ca9be_18.jpg


On your head for putting Trump in power and continuing to support him while he does it.

I could keep going on. But if Trump's support for the growth of the American police state, the militarization of the police, the securing of the power of the Deep State, the utter contempt with which he treats the US Constitution, the promotion of terrorism, the destruction of nations, the Holocaust of Yemen, to say nothing of teh fact that his economic policies are straight out of FDR's Progressive Economics Playbook, all for "prison reform"? If your soul can be sold for so little?

Then yeah, fuck you. You're not just an enemy of liberty, you're an enemy of humanity itself. With your willingness to support warlords who use violence to murder and maintain power, to rule with blood and horror upon the Earth, you couldn't be anything else. And since you claim to be awoken to the truth and a "friend of liberty" you don't even have a cloak of ignorance to hide your sins behind as the rest of the sheeple do.