Trump promotes stop-and-frisk

[Matt Collins]

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/08/trump-praises-stop-and-frisk-calls-for-tougher-policing-tactics.html

[timosman]

Only in Chicago. :cool:

[Aratus]

Aratus... looks... Up...

[r3volution 3.0]

Stop-and-frisk,

And also, offend-and be-imprisoned-forever-without-trial-or-any-other-semblance-of-due-process.

Good thing the SCOTUS was just supplemented by a PATRIOT Act enthusiast.

[spudea]

he said the same thing in 2016 and nothing happened.

[enhanced_deficit]

He's a right wing democrat, so this would be consistent with his stances on gay weddings, bathrooms, inter-racial romances, gun control, foreign sanctions/interventions, domestic tariffs, abortion/contraception, aid to Israel etc. Joe Lieberman, Lindsey Graham and various other bluedog neocons are not supporting him for nothing.



he said the same thing in 2016 and nothing happened.

He says lot of things but only does what is approved by his largest donors. Other than that, he's pretty fearless.


Related

Trump about to ban bump stocks (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?527202-Trump-about-to-ban-bump-stocks&)



But to be fair, such stances like his gun control push are not entirely new development, GOP-Jarvanka wing's current leader has a long track record of supporting democratic causes and politicians.


http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/BN-HA817_Rahm_G_20150219182119.jpg

Trump donated $50,000 to Rahm Emanuel’s 2010 Chicago mayoral campaign.
https://variety.com/2017/biz/news/ari-emanuel-wme-trump-political-action-committee-1201981545/

That was soon after Rahm served as Obama White House Chief of Staff.

[francisco]

so much Liberty, I can't take it anymore /sarc
This a-hole absolutely enrages me

[idiom]

This is not a grab-em-by-the-pussy reference?

[shakey1]

Make
America
Groan
Again

[devil21]

so much Liberty, I can't take it anymore /sarc
This a-hole absolutely enrages me

It seems implementing a deeper police state was the one campaign promise he fully intends to keep.

[CCTelander]

It seems implementing a deeper police state was the one campaign promise he fully intends to keep.


He's been doing this right along. Copsucking on a truly epic scale, more military weapons to and militarizatiom of the police, encouraging cops to be tougher and rougher with suspects. Cheerleading universal surveillance. A true "law and order" authoritarian.

Trump is an authoritarian "strong man" in the same vein as those the people in banana republics south of the border are stereotypically accused of favoring. And, judging by their reactions to his actions, that's exactly what most Trump supporters want.

[devil21]

He's been doing this right along. Copsucking on a truly epic scale, more military weapons to and militarizatiom of the police, encouraging cops to be tougher and rougher with suspects. Cheerleading universal surveillance. A true "law and order" authoritarian.

Trump is an authoritarian "strong man" in the same vein as those the people in banana republics south of the border are stereotypically accused of favoring. And, judging by their reactions to his actions, that's exactly what most Trump supporters want.

This is why I'm surprised by the warming up to Trump by some of who were previously the most vocal against the rising police state, such as AF. Now it seems no one cares about the further militarization of police, further ignoring of rights, further surveillance state and control grid, etc. I can't imagine what could possibly make someone throw out their entire "pet issue" of many years in favor of what appears to be mostly rhetoric without much substance. Not a peep on these sorts of threads by the resident Trumpers. I assume because they can't be spun with a "nuh uh, that's fake news, here's what's really happening" type response.

[CaptUSA]

This is why I'm surprised by the warming up to Trump by some of who were previously the most vocal against the rising police state, such as AF. Now it seems no one cares about the further militarization of police, further ignoring of rights, further surveillance state and control grid, etc. I can't imagine what could possibly make someone throw out their entire "pet issue" of many years in favor of what appears to be mostly rhetoric without much substance. Not a peep on these sorts of threads by the resident Trumpers. I assume because they can't be spun with a "nuh uh, that's fake news, here's what's really happening" type response.

Hope. Hope is a powerful motivator. By properly leveraging your hopes and fears, a politician can get you to support almost anything.

[devil21]

Hope. Hope is a powerful motivator. By properly leveraging your hopes and fears, a politician can get you to support almost anything.

Very true. Those are indeed the two predominant emotions manipulated like clockwork, aren't they?

The controllers present the scenario, with strong knowledge of the predictable reaction, and are rarely disappointed by the result.

[enhanced_deficit]

Let's wait till all the facts come out.

[Cap]

Let's give this a Trump-Humpers-Bump.

[Anti Federalist]

This is why I'm surprised by the warming up to Trump by some of who were previously the most vocal against the rising police state, such as AF. Now it seems no one cares about the further militarization of police, further ignoring of rights, further surveillance state and control grid, etc. I can't imagine what could possibly make someone throw out their entire "pet issue" of many years in favor of what appears to be mostly rhetoric without much substance. Not a peep on these sorts of threads by the resident Trumpers. I assume because they can't be spun with a "nuh uh, that's fake news, here's what's really happening" type response.

I swear to Christ, I can't win for fucking losing around this joint.

I have been banging the "Down with the police state" drum for decades now. I banged it so hard around here, everything I posted got relegated to an unviewed dungeon, "one starred" threads by hecklers in the peanut gallery and generally given grief over my "Dead Dog Daily" stories, to the point where I gave up, tired of the ulcers and the sick rage I get every time I see one of these stories.

Now that's a sign that i have somehow "warmed up" to the idea that asshole cops should be allowed to just randomly stop people and frisk them whenever they fucking feel like it? :mad:

Kiss my ass, what the fuck do you want from me???

This is bullshit policy and we all know it, what more do you want me to say?

I'm not "warming up" to the idea of a police state. I'm not "warming up" to Trump, other than to point out where he has done a demonstrably good thing, and there have been some good things that have come out this administration. Unlike the unhinged Jacobin and Bolshevik left currently running amok, I can see that, objectively. But if you think I'm going to throw in with those assholes, just because of my opposition to a police state, you've got another thing coming.

Tell you what: convince me that more than 1 percent of AmeriKunts give a flying fuck at a rolling donut about their freedom, show me one single cocksucker, besides myself, for example, that gives the slightest bit of grief and pushback at the TSA gate rape stations rather than doing the Compliance Shuffle, and maybe I'll get inspired to start hollering again.

Otherwise, I'm fucking done.

AmeriKunts get the country, the people and the surroundings they deserve.

I'm hunkering down and trying to protect me and mine as best I can from the dimwitted onslaught, and if Trump makes some moves that assist instead of hinder that effort, well, hoo-fucking-rah.

Better than being fought at every single turn.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[RonZeplin]

Stop & Frisk, Take the Gun Away. They won't have anything to shoot with. MAGA? :confused:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNBj_bYAtA0

[devil21]

I swear to Christ, I can't win for fucking losing around this joint.

I have been banging the "Down with the police state" drum for decades now. I banged it so hard around here, everything I posted got relegated to an unviewed dungeon, "one starred" threads by hecklers in the peanut gallery and generally given grief over my "Dead Dog Daily" stories, to the point where I gave up, tired of the ulcers and the sick rage I get every time I see one of these stories.

Now that's a sign that i have somehow "warmed up" to the idea that asshole cops should be allowed to just randomly stop people and frisk them whenever they fucking feel like it? :mad:

Kiss my ass, what the fuck do you want from me???

This is bullshit policy and we all know it, what more do you want me to say?

I'm not "warming up" to the idea of a police state. I'm not "warming up" to Trump, other than to point out where he has done a demonstrably good thing, and there have been some good things that have come out this administration. Unlike the unhinged Jacobin and Bolshevik left currently running amok, I can see that, objectively. But if you think I'm going to throw in with those assholes, just because of my opposition to a police state, you've got another thing coming.

Tell you what: convince me that more than 1 percent of AmeriKunts give a flying fuck at a rolling donut about their freedom, show me one single cocksucker, besides myself, for example, that gives the slightest bit of grief and pushback at the TSA gate rape stations rather than doing the Compliance Shuffle, and maybe I'll get inspired to start hollering again.

Otherwise, I'm fucking done.

AmeriKunts get the country, the people and the surroundings they deserve.

I'm hunkering down and trying to protect me and mine as best I can from the dimwitted onslaught, and if Trump makes some moves that assist instead of hinder that effort, well, hoo-fucking-rah.

Better than being fought at every single turn.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

So, not supporting Trump, or more accurately, ceasing to try to hold his feet to the fire on what seemed to be your top issue, automatically means "throwing in with the Bolsheviks"?

Same ol' duality games always effective for fear of being labeled by others as this or that. Gotta wonder why people are so terrified of what someone else calls you?

I hate to tell you this but y'alls reactions to the shill's constant labels ("you ain't a libtard, are ya?) and the controlled opposition "enemy of my enemy is my friend" just guarantees that you'll get much more of it, until you completely cease to say anything. The shills are labeling truth tellers as "libtards" from the false right and the shills are labeling truth tellers "bigots" from the false left. The desired end result is self-censorship for fear of being labeled something bad. And yes, someone will always find something to label you with as long as it is effective.

[Danke]

So, not supporting Trump, or more accurately, ceasing to try to hold his feet to the fire on what seemed to be your top issue, automatically means "throwing in with the Bolsheviks"?

Same ol' duality games always effective for fear of being labeled by others as this or that. Gotta wonder why people are so terrified of what someone else calls you?

I hate to tell you this but y'alls reactions to the shill's constant labels ("you ain't a libtard, are ya?) and the controlled opposition "enemy of my enemy is my friend" just guarantees that you'll get much more of it, until you completely cease to say anything. The shills are labeling truth tellers as "libtards" from the false right and the shills are labeling truth tellers "bigots" from the false left. The desired end result is self-censorship for fear of being labeled something bad. And yes, someone will always find something to label you with as long as it is effective.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDwGptqacyI

[Ender]

So, not supporting Trump, or more accurately, ceasing to try to hold his feet to the fire on what seemed to be your top issue, automatically means "throwing in with the Bolsheviks"?

Same ol' duality games always effective for fear of being labeled by others as this or that. Gotta wonder why people are so terrified of what someone else calls you?

I hate to tell you this but y'alls reactions to the shill's constant labels ("you ain't a libtard, are ya?) and the controlled opposition "enemy of my enemy is my friend" just guarantees that you'll get much more of it, until you completely cease to say anything. The shills are labeling truth tellers as "libtards" from the false right and the shills are labeling truth tellers "bigots" from the false left. The desired end result is self-censorship for fear of being labeled something bad. And yes, someone will always find something to label you with as long as it is effective.

LOL- I've been called a troll, by some who promote nothing but fear and hate, for objecting to this & pointing out that that is exactly the division that TPTB want.

Just pointing out the the whole Kavanaugh BS was a ruse, & that the REAL reasons to question his seat in the SCOTUS was his part in the Patriot Act & his neocon POV on many issues, sent some Trump-lovers into fits of rage.

That said, Anti Federalist is one of my favorites on the forum & time will shortly tell where this crazy road is leading us.

[dannno]

Just pointing out the the whole Kavanaugh BS was a ruse, & that the REAL reasons to question his seat in the SCOTUS was his part in the Patriot Act & his neocon POV on many issues, sent some Trump-lovers into fits of rage.

What a pile of horse shit, everybody on this forum agrees that the real reasons to question his seat in the SCOTUS was his part in the Patriot Act and such. The very people you are talking about said exactly the same thing.

Nobody liked him that much.. But he is a lot better on a lot of issues than leftist judges who may have taken his seat had the left been successful with their BS smear campaign that was filled with horrifying leftist talking points, i.e. "believe all women".

[Anti Federalist]

So, not supporting Trump, or more accurately, ceasing to try to hold his feet to the fire on what seemed to be your top issue, automatically means "throwing in with the Bolsheviks"?

Same ol' duality games always effective for fear of being labeled by others as this or that. Gotta wonder why people are so terrified of what someone else calls you?

I hate to tell you this but y'alls reactions to the shill's constant labels ("you ain't a libtard, are ya?) and the controlled opposition "enemy of my enemy is my friend" just guarantees that you'll get much more of it, until you completely cease to say anything. The shills are labeling truth tellers as "libtards" from the false right and the shills are labeling truth tellers "bigots" from the false left. The desired end result is self-censorship for fear of being labeled something bad. And yes, someone will always find something to label you with as long as it is effective.

You didn't listen to a word I said...

[Anti Federalist]

time will shortly tell where this crazy road is leading us.

That much is very true...we'll see how this all unfolds...

[devil21]

You didn't listen to a word I said...

I did and I contemplated them. If you're being quiet about things that you historically were VERY vocal about then there's a reason. You essentially stated that no one else cares about police state anymore so why should you and essentially the fear of being labeled as being with the Bolsheviks. Both of those perceptions will eventually lead to being self-censored.

This is exactly the time when people MUST be vocal, lest differing opinions cease to exist in the marketplace of ideas and in your case, the actual Bolsheviks end up being the only voice in the room.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDwGptqacyI

Great clip and I take it as a compliment.

[Ender]

What a pile of horse $#@!, everybody on this forum agrees that the real reasons to question his seat in the SCOTUS was his part in the Patriot Act and such. The very people you are talking about said exactly the same thing.

Nobody liked him that much.. But he is a lot better on a lot of issues than leftist judges who may have taken his seat had the left been successful with their BS smear campaign that was filled with horrifying leftist talking points, i.e. "believe all women".

Pile of horse shit? LOL- that would be your post.

I repeatedly said I did NOT believe the sexual accusations against Kavanaugh. The fact that he helped usher in the Patriot Act, which is why we are all now living in a pile of horse shit, should be a detriment in the eyes of all freedom-lovers.

THIS was the reason for the Kavanaugh Reality Show.

The right/left paradigm is to get everyone's eye off the mark & spew hate at each other while TPTB march on.

[RJB]

I did and I contemplated them. If you're being quiet about things that you historically were VERY vocal about then there's a reason. You essentially stated that no one else cares about police state anymore so why should you and essentially the fear of being labeled as being with the Bolsheviks. Both of those perceptions will eventually lead to being self-censored.

This is exactly the time when people MUST be vocal, lest differing opinions cease to exist in the marketplace of ideas and in your case, the actual Bolsheviks end up being the only voice in the room.




Great clip and I take it as a compliment.
AF stated he was getting ulcers from posting so many police brutality articles. While he's taking a break, you are more than welcome to pick up where he left off.

[TheCount]

Now it seems no one cares about the further militarization of police, further ignoring of rights, further surveillance state and control grid, etc. I can't imagine what could possibly make someone throw out their entire "pet issue" of many years in favor of what appears to be mostly rhetoric without much substance. Not a peep on these sorts of threads by the resident Trumpers. I assume because they can't be spun with a "nuh uh, that's fake news, here's what's really happening" type response.
It turns out that some people only disagreed with the police state when they felt like they might be the target. When they are given a suitably acceptable enemy, they feel that militarization of the police is appropriate. (See also: the 4th amendment and Kavanaugh)

[devil21]

AF stated he was getting ulcers from posting so many police brutality articles. While he's taking a break, you are more than welcome to pick up where he left off.

I can't carry this whole thing myself. I'm not Atlas. People need to be on the ball about what matters to them. Talking about it when the Dem was Pres was easy. Stopping when the Republican Pres is meeting with sheriffs and police chiefs and pushing for increased unreasonable search and seizure with the express intent of disarming people (it's not only for Chicago even though the media is framing it that way) is exactly the time when conservatives and libertarians need to be most vocal. It's easy to join the chorus when the Dem is pushing gun control. Who has the stones to denounce it when it's the Republican? Even when the shills will threaten you with some label meant to shut you up?

eta: The other option is to opt out of it all and stop giving consent via emotional investment en masse. Unlikely to happen though since the methods to secure investment have been honed over thousands of years.

[Swordsmyth]

It turns out that some people only disagreed with the police state when they felt like they might be the target. When they are given a suitably acceptable enemy, they feel that militarization of the police is appropriate. (See also: the 4th amendment and Kavanaugh)

Please point out one such person and provide quotes to back up your charge.

[TheCount]

Please point out one such person and provide quotes to back up your charge.

K.


The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

But if it came to that, I would very quietly remove as many troops from foreign soil as possible without arousing too much notice and set them to work, Tet-style, from sea to shining sea. I would shut NSA down and put the engineers to work on every building with all assets in place. I would do the same with CIA. You literally would have to kill all the higher ranking employees and destroy all the infrastructure with explosives and fire in one fell swoop in order to be effective.

After that, all troops come home. All foreign bases closed and demolished prior to abandoning the sites - burned to the ground and into fly-ash. New policy: we mind our own business henceforth, but be ye sorely aware that any move by any foreign power will be met with strict non-equivocation. That would be aimed mainly at China and Russia. We can trade if it please you, but we will destroy you in toto if you make the least gesture to mess with us.

After the 12 month adjustment period in the wake of the elimination of all social progreams, during which I am sure thousands of Americans would have to be killed due to rioting, martial law is lifted and we go on as a freer land... or so the theory goes.

Sadly, this is not likely to happen, and if it did, would likely not go as planned. Power such as that seems to have too strong an effect on any latent corruption, bringing it to incipiency and, thereafter, rapid full-bloom. The minds of all but a small handful of men are so screwed up now that it is virtually impossible to bring substantive positive change to the world. The critical mass simply does not exist. This is why I believe the world as we know it must be take from our hands and destroyed in order for anything REAL to change.

The reason I see martial law as the least unlikely path to the goal is that the people of America are far too ignorant, corrupt, and divided to come to a more conventionally implemented accord.

[Swordsmyth]

K.

That isn't an example of what you said.
osan doesn't believe in a police state, he was discussing how it could be ended.

[TheCount]

That isn't an example of what you said.
@osan (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=25257) doesn't believe in a police state, he was discussing how it could be ended.

Read it again.

[Swordsmyth]

Read it again.
You read it again, guns can be used to end fights as well as start them.

[RJB]

I can't carry this whole thing myself. I'm not Atlas.

The weight that you carry on your shoulders, posting on this forum, will surely be rewarded. I am certain they will erect a statue of you some day.

[jmdrake]

This is why I'm surprised by the warming up to Trump by some of who were previously the most vocal against the rising police state, such as AF. Now it seems no one cares about the further militarization of police, further ignoring of rights, further surveillance state and control grid, etc. I can't imagine what could possibly make someone throw out their entire "pet issue" of many years in favor of what appears to be mostly rhetoric without much substance. Not a peep on these sorts of threads by the resident Trumpers. I assume because they can't be spun with a "nuh uh, that's fake news, here's what's really happening" type response.

Cause supposedly the imgrants gonna take our freedumb so let's give up our freedumb to protect us from the immgrants. Seriously the immigration debate causes people to lose liberty IQ points.

[Anti Federalist]

I did and I contemplated them. If you're being quiet about things that you historically were VERY vocal about then there's a reason. You essentially stated that no one else cares about police state anymore so why should you and essentially the fear of being labeled as being with the Bolsheviks. Both of those perceptions will eventually lead to being self-censored.

No.

I'm quiet because nobody gives a fuck on either side, and I don't really feel like making myself sick over it anymore.

I quit.

I'm going to ground, I'm hunkering down, I'm choosing a side based not on how much good they will do, but how much they will hurt me.

Trump and everything he is doing will hurt me marginally less than what the Jacobin left would, who I am now convinced, would be quite happy, had they the power to do so, of appointing a modern day Robespierre and hut hutting about the countryside chopping people's (like me) heads off.

AmeriKunts had two decades to support and elect as president a gentle, thoughtful, upstanding man of principles, dedicated to liberty....and they rejected him.

[Pauls' Revere]

and Kavanaugh will find a way to make sure this is somehow constitutional.

[devil21]

I quit.


Self censoring even sooner than I anticipated. All because of some very well crafted videos, presented to you by the crafters themselves, of some useful idiots that can barely tie their own shoes, much less really go around the countryside chopping people's heads off. You're seriously scared of the tight jeans soyboys that cry in the presence of a gun? I expected more from William Wallace when the chips were down...

[Anti Federalist]

Self censoring even sooner than I anticipated. All because of some very well crafted videos, presented to you by the crafters themselves, of some useful idiots that can barely tie their own shoes, much less really go around the countryside chopping people's heads off. You're seriously scared of the tight jeans soyboys that cry in the presence of a gun? I expected more from William Wallace when the chips were down...

I'm sorry I disappointed you...my sword and standard are right over yonder...go pick them up yourself.

That avatar is technicolor fantasy, a celluloid hallucination...as real as the notion that good and righteous people would rise up and throw off the chains of their oppressors in the name of liberty.

[TheCount]

You read it again, guns can be used to end fights as well as start them.

End the police state with a police state?

[Swordsmyth]

End the police state with a police state?
Your reading comprehension is improving but it is still weak, a police state is an ongoing thing, Osan is proposing a purge.

[thoughtomator]

Love how these high-minded paternalists are trying to hoax us into believing this policy is disrupting some state of ideal liberty, rather than disrupting a war zone as dangerous as Afghanistan.

[devil21]

The irony of thoughtomator's sig is just too much. Toooooo much.

[thoughtomator]

The irony of thoughtomator's sig is just too much. Toooooo much.

It's not ironic in the slightest. It's your profound ignorance of liberty which is ironic.

Go make some unfalsifiable predictions and pat yourself on the back or something, like you usually do.

[devil21]

Stop and frisk for gun owners is such a win for liberty! Cuz' blacks in Chicago, right?

Man it's gettin' shilly up in this place.

[thoughtomator]

Stop and frisk for gun owners is such a win for liberty! Cuz' blacks in Chicago, right?

As I keep telling you, and you are too dumb to learn, liberty is not the savage state of man, but a concept that rests on the rule of law, which itself rests on sovereignty.

These inner cities are lawless war zones and even the existence of sovereignty over these areas is questionable.

If you really wanted liberty for blacks in Chicago - and I don't believe for a second that you care in the slightest about those people or their liberty - then you should support the imposition of a state of peaceful law and order as the basis for liberty.

But let's be real, shall we? You've never done a thing for those people and are being an ersatz SJW advocating for people you don't care about and policies that won't affect you. AKA a total loser and self-righteous hypocrite.

[devil21]

As I keep telling you, and you are too dumb to learn, liberty is not the savage state of man, but a concept that rests on the rule of law, which itself rests on sovereignty.

Pretty sure the 2nd says quite plainly "shall not be infringed." Are you saying it's ok to infringe if men decide it should be?



These inner cities are lawless war zones and even the existence of sovereignty over these areas is questionable.

Looks like you are saying that.



If you really wanted liberty for blacks in Chicago - and I don't believe for a second that you care in the slightest about those people or their liberty - then you should support the imposition of a state of peaceful law and order as the basis for liberty.

This isn't for blacks in Chicago. It's for everyone. I suppose you think it's coincidence that Trump and his handlers meet with a bunch of sheriffs and police chiefs over the course of a couple weeks, then comes out in favor of stop-and-frisk to disarm people. I don't resort to personal insults, instead of logic, so I won't attack your intellectual capabilities but I'm surprised you haven't yet learned that when they say something is for this reason then it really means it's for everyone. Or will be eventually.



But let's be real, shall we? You've never done a thing for those people and are being an ersatz SJW advocating for people you don't care about and policies that won't affect you. AKA a total loser and self-righteous hypocrite.

As opposed to your high conquests advocating for their freedom to bear arms as a natural right, as clearly evidenced in this thread?

[thoughtomator]

Pretty sure the 2nd says quite plainly "shall not be infringed." Are you saying it's ok to infringe if men decide it should be?



Looks like you do think that.



This isn't for blacks in Chicago. It's for everyone. I suppose you think it's coincidence that Trump and his handlers meet with a bunch of sheriffs and police chiefs over the course of a couple weeks, then comes out in favor of stop-and-frisk to disarm people. I don't resort to personal insults, instead of logic, so I won't attack your intellectual capabilities but I'm surprised you haven't yet learned that when they say something is for this then it really means it's for everyone. Or will be eventually.



As opposed to your high conquests advocating for their freedom to bear arms as a natural right, as clearly evidenced in this thread?

I'm sorry but your IQ is way too low to amuse me sufficiently to deal with your nonsense. Goodbye!

[devil21]

I'm sorry but your IQ is way too low to amuse me sufficiently to deal with your nonsense. Goodbye!

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/370/928/a3d.gif

[nikcers]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/370/928/a3d.gif



I think he probably wised up, he just defended the government stealing private property on a libertarian forum by claiming intellectual superiority. It's like walking in to a steakhouse and saying steak sucks.

[Working Poor]

I am certainly opposed to stop and frisk. Can I stop it? I wish I could. What can I do about it? I can keep myself in check and stay under the radar as much as possible. I am sure that keeping a low profile and minding my own business has saved me tonnes of misery. I have known a few nosy people in my life they always trying to create some kind of stir. "Neighborhood watch" is a nosy neighbors dream come true but, I guess they keep neighborhoods safer. Maybe a sign put up in neighborhoods saying "never mind the dog beware of owner (https://goo.gl/images/urA67y)" would be almost as effective.

I wish we did not have paid thugs set out to subdue our youth. I can teach my children and grandchildren right from wrong. My dad used to say if you are going to do something against government set laws don't get caught and if you do get caught don't show your ass he also said, be respectful of other people and their property.

[RicoCabeza]

Donald Trump has also publicly declared that he intends to RFID track people in land, air, and sea! So Patriots -- Please help me spread a VERY IMPORTANT MESSAGE which begins immediately below (optimized for Youtube):

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Please HELP Make This Go VIRAL by sharing an EXACT copy of this message in Youtube comments and elsewhere, but NO MORE THAN ONCE PER DAY IN YOUTUBE to avoid getting your Youtube account suspended for Spamming.

[Origanalist]

I'm sorry but your IQ is way too low to amuse me sufficiently to deal with your nonsense. Goodbye!

Lol

[PAF]

Well at least it's working.

On a gun forum that I participate on, the "repubs" believe that trump is right and it's a great idea to reduce crime. So now they support "stop and frisk" in Chicago. I tried to point out that this was a tolerance gauge for more to come but I just got my ass handed to me on a plate for being anti-trump.

So everything is working quite efficiently. Especially with kavanaugh (who they love) getting that seat.

[CaptUSA]

Well at least it's working.

On a gun forum that I participate on, the "repubs" believe that trump is right and it's a great idea to reduce crime. So now they support "stop and frisk" in Chicago. I tried to point out that this was a tolerance gauge for more to come but I just got my ass handed to me on plate for being anti-trump.

So everything is working quite efficiently. Especially with kavanaugh (who they love) getting that seat.

#Making Republicans Democrats Again!

[PAF]

#Making Republicans Democrats Again!

Evidently according to trump hitlery was all talk and no action:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loCX3hfoHQ0&feature=youtu.be

https://youtu.be/loCX3hfoHQ0

[thoughtomator]

Cap in re:your drive by comment

I really don't care to debate with people who demonstrate a clear intent not to debate honestly. The common technique here is the relentless use of strawmen, and it gets real tiring real quickly when people do so.

The reality is that it is despicable to be virtue signaling at the cost of others' lives, people who one doesn't know and doesn't care about their well-being. This is SJWism and it deserves straight-up contempt and nothing more.

They claim to care about rights, but the basic right to life, on which all other liberties rest, isn't even on their radar.

The kind of problem faced by residents of these areas, rampant lawless violence where the government has de facto lifted its protection from the people, is one of the specific grievances listed in the seminal work of human liberty - the Declaration of Independence.

If I have to argue for the principles in the DoI, then I am dealing with imbeciles, or Communists, and I really have no response other than telling them to get in the fucking helicopter.

[Ender]

Cap in re:your drive by comment

I really don't care to debate with people who demonstrate a clear intent not to debate honestly. The common technique here is the relentless use of strawmen, and it gets real tiring real quickly when people do so.

The reality is that it is despicable to be virtue signaling at the cost of others' lives, people who one doesn't know and doesn't care about their well-being. This is SJWism and it deserves straight-up contempt and nothing more.

They claim to care about rights, but the basic right to life, on which all other liberties rest, isn't even on their radar.

The kind of problem faced by residents of these areas, rampant lawless violence where the government has de facto lifted its protection from the people, is one of the specific grievances listed in the seminal work of human liberty - the Declaration of Independence.

If I have to argue for the principles in the DoI, then I am dealing with imbeciles, or Communists, and I really have no response other than telling them to get in the $#@!ing helicopter.

OK- then I challenge you to a week of no name-calling & personal insults.

ONE WEEK of true debate, giving your honest POV, & responding in kindness.

Ready?

GO.

[thoughtomator]

OK- then I challenge you to a week of no name-calling & personal insults.

ONE WEEK of true debate, giving your honest POV, & responding in kindness.

Ready?

GO.

No. You're another anarchist subversive that deserves no quarter as an enemy of the people. You have long since burned any claim to courtesy from me.

Thanks for the reminder to put you back on ignore. Goodbye.

[CCTelander]

No. You're another anarchist subversive that deserves no quarter as an enemy of the people. You have long since burned any claim to courtesy from me.

Thanks for the reminder to put you back on ignore. Goodbye.


Ignore him till the time comes to throw him out of a helicopter, right?

[devil21]

Well at least it's working.

On a gun forum that I participate on, the "repubs" believe that trump is right and it's a great idea to reduce crime. So now they support "stop and frisk" in Chicago. I tried to point out that this was a tolerance gauge for more to come but I just got my ass handed to me on a plate for being anti-trump.

So everything is working quite efficiently. Especially with kavanaugh (who they love) getting that seat.

Which forum is that? I used to participate on a couple of gun forums years ago but stopped (banned, actually, for contrary opinions to the official GOP mantras) when it became clear that it was dominated by a handful of consensus-builder shill accounts.

[PAF]

Which forum is that? I used to participate on a couple of gun forums years ago but stopped (banned, actually, for contrary opinions to the official GOP mantras) when it became clear that it was dominated by a handful of consensus-builder shill accounts.

usacarry. it's a hodgepodge of left-wing and neocons - to me they are all the same. It's really just a bicker forum to prove who is bigger/badder with their "registered" guns.

[euphemia]

Kanye West is sitting in the Oval Office right now talking to the President about stop and frisk.

[homahr]

https://i.imgur.com/5u6219A.jpg

[Ender]

No. You're another anarchist subversive that deserves no quarter as an enemy of the people. You have long since burned any claim to courtesy from me.

Thanks for the reminder to put you back on ignore. Goodbye.

Please do- and thank you for proving my point.

[timosman]

Kanye West is sitting in the Oval Office right now talking to the President about stop and frisk.

https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/1050433402015506432

1050433402015506432

[homahr]

https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/1050433402015506432

1050433402015506432

I would be saddened if he didn't say MF in the OO.

[CCTelander]

Please do- and thank you for proving my point.


Better to be ignored by bloodthirsty individuals so filled with hate and rage they've lost all sense of reason or prportion, methinks.

[Origanalist]

No. You're another anarchist subversive that deserves no quarter as an enemy of the people. You have long since burned any claim to courtesy from me.

Thanks for the reminder to put you back on ignore. Goodbye.

More lol. "enemy of the people", sounds just like one of those left wing nuts.

[dannno]

https://i.imgur.com/5u6219A.jpg

Since you don't even have a clue as to the context of this discussion..

Kanye was saying how we had slavery, and how black people are still in the slave/victim mindset and if they want to be free they need to break out of that mindset.

[dannno]

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/president-trump-praises-kanye-wests-words-at-white-house-that-was-quite-something


Kanye West did lunch with President Trump Thursday, but pre-empted the meal with a wildly entertaining and decidedly bizarre press conference in which he covered Superman, the 13th and Second amendments, North Korea and his budding MAGA bromance with the commander in chief.

West began the much-anticipated sit-down by praising Trump's efforts in North Korea saying, "On day one you solved one of [Obama's] biggest troubles. We solved one of the biggest problems."

The conversation turned to West discussing the lack of support he received from his Hollywood cohorts with regards to his support of the president.
"They tried to scare me to not wear this hat," West said, referring to his "Make America Great Again" hat he wore to the meeting and on a recent appearance on "Saturday Night Live."

"When I put this hat on, it made me feel like Superman - my favorite superhero. You made a Superman cape for me."

The rapper went on to chastise the NBC sketch show and other liberal-leaning media members for their portrayal of the American president.

"What I need 'SNL' and liberals to improve on is, if he don't look good, we don't look good. He has to be the freshest, the flyest, have the flyest planes. He has to look good!" West said. "When we make everything in China and not America, we’re cheating on our country."

West discussed many topics in a rambling dialogue that included everything from bringing manufacturing to the country, his personal business deals, ending stop-and-frisk in Chicago and the 13th Amendment.

"There's a lot of things that affect our mental health that put us into this trap door that is the 13th Amendment," West said.


West went on to reference his recent bipolar disorder diagnosis saying that he was misdiagnosed by a doctor and said he was merely sleep-deprived.

The chat was then turned over to reporters who asked West about his feelings on gun control.

"Illegal guns is the problem, not legal guns, we have the right to bear arms," he said bluntly.

Overall, West was complimentary to the president, even at one point saying he loved him and running around the Resolute desk to hug him.

The rapper's statement lasted nearly 10 minutes before the president chimed in to compliment West on his honesty.

"I tell you what, that was pretty impressive," Trump said after West seemed to run out of steam. "That was quite something."

"It was from the soul. I just channeled it," West replied.

Trump continued to compliment the rapper, who talked about spreading love through the country.

“He can speak for me any time he wants, he’s a smart cookie,” Trump said. “He gets it.”

When asked if West’s previous declarations that he’ll run for president seem reasonable to Trump, he noted that he thinks Kanye “could very well be” candidate material.

“Only after 2024,” West said.

Former NFL legend and actor Jim Brown was in the meeting along with senior advisor and Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner. Trump asked Brown what he thought of the scene, to which he replied, “I’m here to serve.”

The Chicago-raised rapper and the New York real estate mogul-turned president have a long friendship that goes back before the 2016 election.

When West declared in 2015 he would run for president in 2020 during a 2015 VMAs acceptance speech, Trump, then just a presidential candidate, was not fazed, and welcomed the competition.

“I hope to run against him someday,” Trump told Rolling Stone (https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/videos/donald-trump-on-why-he-hopes-kanye-runs-for-president-20150902) magazine.

Trump also defended West as a “nice guy” and “actually a different kind of person than people think.”

“He’s said very nice things about me in the past … extremely positive things,” Trump said.

A year later, West visited the then president-elect at Trump Tower in New York in December 2016.

“We’ve been friends for a long time,” Trump said at the time. (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/us/politics/kanye-trump-tower-visit.html) He said the bombastic pair discussed “life.”

West later said online (http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2016/12/14/kanye-west-tweets-details-his-meeting-with-donald-trump.html) that he met with Trump in 2016 “to discuss multiracial issues” such as “bullying, supporting teachers, modernizing curriculum and violence in Chicago.”

“I feel it is important to have a direct line of communication with our future President if we truly want change,” he said in the since-deleted tweets.

West has received a lot of backlash from fans and his fellow celebrities for his support of the president including a recent slew of criticism from several members of “Saturday Night Live” who bashed West after going on a pro-Trump rant at the end of the show earlier this month.

“What Kanye said after we went off the air last week was one of the worst, most awkward things I’ve seen here, and I’ve seen Chevy Chase speak to an intern,” "SNL" star Pete Davidson joked in a skit the following week.

West explained to the New York Times in June why he supports Trump, saying there are many more Trump supporters in Hollywood who are just afraid to come forward.

“There were people who said Trump would never win,” West said in the interview. “I’m talking about the it-will-never-happens of the world, people in high school told you things would never happen.”

West said he had been an underdog his entire career, and that drew him to Trump, a man who many felt could never win the presidency. He claimed the two shared “dragon energy."

“I felt that I knew people who voted for Trump that were celebrities that were scared to say that they liked him,” he said. "But they told me, and I liked him, and I’m not scared to say what I like. Let me come over here and get in this fight with you.”

The star went on to describe breaking free of the "mob-thought" that made him feel obligated to support Hillary Clinton in the 2016 election because of his celebrity and status.
Trump returned the love at a campaign-style rally in Michigan in April.

“Kanye West gets it,” Trump said (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-praises-kanye-west-at-michigan-rally). “When he sees that African-American unemployment is the lowest in history, you know people are watching. That’s a very important thing he’s done for his legacy.”

Trump also returned the accolades tweeting in April, “Kanye West has performed a great service to the Black Community – Big things are happening and eyes are being opened for the first time in Decades – Legacy stuff.”

[dannno]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh_Rh36GGBA

[homahr]

Since you don't even have a clue as to the context of this discussion..


Just posting for the Lolz. Stop being a little bitch, bitch.

[CCTelander]

More lol. "enemy of the people", sounds just like one of those left wing nuts.


One authoritarian sounds very much like another. At least we're not getting stabbed in the back by the "left wing nuts."

[dannno]

Just posting for the Lolz. Stop being a little bitch, bitch.

It's only funny for people who are bitches to the mainstream media.

Why don't you go write an article for WaPo about it.

[homahr]

It's only funny for people who are bitches to the mainstream media.

Okay pedo-rapist-Saudi supporting bitch.

[homahr]

Why don't you go write an article for WaPo about it.

It's more fun to post here with you, little bitch.

[dannno]

Okay pedo-rapist-Saudi supporting bitch.

I hope you can get over your mental disorder, whatever it is.

[homahr]

I can't get over your mental disorder, whatever it is.


Aww, little bitch can't get over me.

[Anti Federalist]

This is why only a decent, sane, god fearing people can have liberty.

If you create or import a criminal class, after a while the people get tired of being robbed, raped, killed and terrorized and are willing to grasp at any straws, including authoritarian strongman tactics, anything, to stem the wave of crime that makes daily life a living hell for them.

[Swordsmyth]

This is why only a decent, sane, god fearing people can have liberty.

If you create or import a criminal class, after a while the people get tired of being robbed, raped, killed and terrorized and are willing to grasp at any straws, including authoritarian strongman tactics, anything, to stem the wave of crime that makes daily life a living hell for them.
Survival trumps liberty every time, you can say that is wrong but you can't change it, the human mind is built that way and very few have the mental fortitude to overcome it.

[RJB]

Just posting for the Lolz. Stop being a little bitch, bitch.


Okay pedo-rapist-Saudi supporting bitch.


It's more fun to post here with you, little bitch.


Aww, little bitch can't get over me.

What's the matter with you? Can't you at least pretend to have a shred of class?

[TheCount]

Survival trumps liberty every time, you can say that is wrong but you can't change it, the human mind is built that way and very few have the mental fortitude to overcome it.

Statists gonna state.

[homahr]

Can't you at least pretend to have a shred of class?

I thought I was doing a great job of pretending. I'll try harder.

[Swordsmyth]

Statists gonna state.

Yup, that is why your buddies take advantage of human nature by importing and creating criminal ghetto trash.

[nikcers]

I hope you can get over your mental disorder, whatever it is.

If not wanting to have the government violate the fourth amendment because muh security theater is mentally ill than only the mad are sane.

[Swordsmyth]

If not wanting to have the government violate the fourth amendment because muh security theater is mentally ill than only the mad are sane.
If you think that is what Dannno is talking about then you have a mental disorder.

[nikcers]

If you think that is what Dannno is talking about then you have a mental disorder.

The government doesn't just use a power you give them for the thing you give it to them for. If you look at what we did with government surveillance in order to listen to foreigners and apply it here you would understand.

[Swordsmyth]

The government doesn't just use a power you give them for the thing you give it to them for. If you look at what we did with government surveillance in order to listen to foreigners and apply it here you would understand.
Dannno wasn't talking about anything like that, he was commenting on homahr's ad hominem attacks on him.

[nikcers]

Dannno wasn't talking about anything like that, he was commenting on homahr's ad hominem attacks on him.

Yeah and I am talking about crazy people who are for stop and frisk because government is not comprised of angels and will abuse this power for other things and get away with it like they always do. Those topics are normally mutually exclusive but for some reason crazy people and ad hominem attacks were posted in a stop and frisk post, so when life gives lemons...

[eleganz]

Okay pedo-rapist-Saudi supporting bitch.

How childish. I hope mods take notice of this new member who cannot play nice to save his own life.

And on the topic of Stop and Frisk.

Kanye's statements today show pretty clearly that Trump is fluid in his decision making. Trump is not a libertarian nor should any of us here pretend that he sold himself as being one. He goes with whatever the best idea can be presented to him. The entire premise of his thread that Trump = evil because he brought up stop and frisk, instantly had his mind changed by a rapper, saying he had an open mind about it. Isn't that quite the opposite of what the purists were blabbing about in this thread?

This is the best chance for libertarianism to be influenced onto a president. There are ways to lobby for a view to present him but the purist libertarians are too lazy to do anything about it. Rand is doing it and doing a great job, but the liberty grassroots or whatever is left of it, is so sour and disheartened, we can't get anything done except moan and complain.

Theres your tireless minority folks. The Remnant, as we once called it.

[nikcers]

How childish. I hope mods take notice of this new member who cannot play nice to save his own life.

And on the topic of Stop and Frisk.

Kanye's statements today show pretty clearly that Trump is fluid in his decision making. Trump is not a libertarian nor should any of us here pretend that he sold himself as being one. He goes with whatever the best idea can be presented to him. The entire premise of his thread that Trump = evil because he praised stop and frisk was debunked by a rapper.

This is the best chance for libertarianism to be influenced onto a president. There are ways to lobby for a view to present him but the purist libertarians are too lazy to do anything about it. Rand is doing it and doing a great job, but the liberty grassroots or whatever is left of it, is so sour and disheartened, we can't get anything done except moan and complain.

Theres your tireless minority folks. The Remnant, as we once called it.

I assumed they paid Kanye to give a speech to the white house to help with the mid term elections. Either that or he was already part of the deep state. I didn't watch much of it just the 5 seconds where he said black people can vote red too.

[eleganz]

I assumed they paid Kanye to give a speech to the white house to help with the mid term elections. Either that or he was already part of the deep state. I didn't watch much of it just the 5 seconds where he said black people can vote red too.

The guy is just being passionate. He's obviously not deep state?? And paid? Come on, his Yeezy brand is already worth north of a billion dollars.

The only ulterior motive here is that he has presidential ambitions and is doing a good job at gaining favorability with conservatives by doing this.

[nikcers]

The guy is just being passionate. He's obviously not deep state?? And paid? Come on, his Yeezy brand is already worth north of a billion dollars.

The only ulterior motive here is that he has presidential ambitions and is doing a good job at gaining favorability with conservatives by doing this.
yeah because the deep state would not have any motivation to be involved with music or popular culture, they stick with politics and influencing people with political ideas.

[eleganz]

yeah because the deep state would not have any motivation to be involved with music or popular culture, they stick with politics and influencing people with political ideas.

True story, I saw plans of this in a Fusion GPS dossier.

lol

[Anti Federalist]

Statists gonna state.

That dismisses the very real fear people in crime filled ghettos feel every day to a bland cliche'.

They don't give a fuck about "Common Sense", Adam Smith or Von Mises.

They want to go to work and not come home to find their place robbed by crack heads, again.

They want to walk out the front door and not get shot.

They don't want to get car jacked or stabbed or burned out in a arson hit.

Yeah, sure, we can look in from the outside and see how much of this is caused by the state, but on the front line, living day to day in Baltimore or Camden or Chicago or Detroit...not so much.

[thoughtomator]

Wouldn't be surprised if the IRS went after KW the day he first put on a MAGA cap.

[Ender]

That dismisses the very real fear people in crime filled ghettos feel every day to a bland cliche'.

They don't give a $#@! about "Common Sense", Adam Smith or Von Mises.

They want to go to work and not come home to find their place robbed by crack heads, again.

They want to walk out the front door and not get shot.

They don't want to get car jacked or stabbed or burned out in a arson hit.

Yeah, sure, we can look in from the outside and see how much of this is caused by the state, but on the front line, living day to day in Baltimore or Camden or Chicago or Detroit...not so much.

"An armed society is a polite society."

-Robert A. Heinlein-

[Swordsmyth]

"An armed society is a polite society."

-Robert A. Heinlein-
That would be my preferred solution, do you see it happening any time soon in Chicago or Detroit?

[Ender]

That would be my preferred solution, do you see it happening any time soon in Chicago or Detroit?

Let's go back to the 2nd Amendment. Time to educate people on it's true meaning.

[PursuePeace]

And on the topic of Stop and Frisk.

Kanye's statements today show pretty clearly that Trump is fluid in his decision making. Trump is not a libertarian nor should any of us here pretend that he sold himself as being one. He goes with whatever the best idea can be presented to him. The entire premise of his thread that Trump = evil because he brought up stop and frisk, instantly had his mind changed by a rapper, saying he had an open mind about it. Isn't that quite the opposite of what the purists were blabbing about in this thread?

This is the best chance for libertarianism to be influenced onto a president. There are ways to lobby for a view to present him but the purist libertarians are too lazy to do anything about it. Rand is doing it and doing a great job, but the liberty grassroots or whatever is left of it, is so sour and disheartened, we can't get anything done except moan and complain.

Theres your tireless minority folks. The Remnant, as we once called it.

+rep
You stole my mind thoughts.

[Danke]

Let's go back to the 2nd Amendment. Time to educate people on it's true meaning.


6145

[thoughtomator]

This is the best chance for libertarianism to be influenced onto a president. There are ways to lobby for a view to present him but the purist libertarians are too lazy to do anything about it. Rand is doing it and doing a great job, but the liberty grassroots or whatever is left of it, is so sour and disheartened, we can't get anything done except moan and complain.

Theres your tireless minority folks. The Remnant, as we once called it.

All serious liberty people are already on the Trump Train for this very reason. It is our first chance to influence policy AT ALL that we've had in a generation. We have more influence now than we've had since Reagan's first term.

[Ender]

All serious liberty people are already on the Trump Train for this very reason. It is our first chance to influence policy AT ALL that we've had in a generation. We have more influence now than we've had since Reagan's first term.

Actually Trump & Reagan are very much alike.

From Murray Rothbard:




Ronald Reagan, Warmonger

https://www.lewrockwell.com/1970/01/murray-n-rothbard/ronald-reagan-warmonger/

Ronald Reagan was swept into office by the conservative movement, whose leader and spokesman he had become. He made a raft of campaign promises to that movement, each and every one of which he has broken egregiously. He raised income taxes rather than lowered them, he brought us $200 billion deficits rather than balancing the budget, he entrenched fiat money rather than bringing back the gold standard, his budget is the highest absolutely and as percentage of GNP in American history, he has deregulated nothing, he has not abolished the Departments of Education and Energy, etc. The conservative movement has long been animated by three broad concerns: (a) Freeing the economy and Getting Big Government Off Our Back; (b) using government to enforce Judaeo-Christian morality (so-called "social" issues), and (c) engaging in nuclear war with the Soviet Union. Simply listing these concerns reveals that (b) and (c), the theocratic and the war-mongering, contradict the libertarian (a), to put it very mildly. The conservative movement is so constituted that in a tussle between these three, (b) and (c) always win out in their hearts and minds over the free market.

The quintessence of Ronald Reagan is that he is a master in supplying the conservative movement with the rhetoric they want to hear. In all politicians there is a gulf between rhetoric and reality, but in Ronald Reagan that gulf has become a veritable and mighty ocean. There seems to be no contact whatever between Ronnie the rhetorician and Ronnie the maker of policy. In that situation it is hard to know which one is "the real" Reagan. The conservatives, feeling betrayed but lacking any guts for a break with the Administration, persist in asserting (publicly, at any rate) that the rhetorical Reagan is the real one, and that if only his evil pragmatist advisers would "let him," this real Reagan would finally emerge. Hence, the famous right-wing slogan, "Let Reagan Be Reagan." But the problem with that slogan is the "let." What do you mean, "let"? Who picked these evil advisers, and who persists in maintaining them in power? None other than Reagan himself. So in what sense is this visible person not the "real" Reagan?

[devil21]

Just posting for the Lolz. Stop being a little bitch, bitch.

Hey hey, cut that stuff out. Take it over to Breitbart if you're going to start that kind of posting. This isn't the forum for that.


I assumed they paid Kanye to give a speech to the white house to help with the mid term elections. Either that or he was already part of the deep state. I didn't watch much of it just the 5 seconds where he said black people can vote red too.

Anyone married to a Kardashian and selling records is already much very part of the establishment and is just following orders.



That would be my preferred solution, do you see it happening any time soon in Chicago or Detroit?

Perhaps if you spent your time pressuring Donald to urge the CIA to stop importing heroin and cocaine into the inner cities instead of blaming the end users, we might make some real progress.


All serious liberty people are already on the Trump Train for this very reason. It is our first chance to influence policy AT ALL that we've had in a generation. We have more influence now than we've had since Reagan's first term.

Yeah yeah we gotta ignore free market principles (the Constitution) in order to protect free market principles (the Constitution). Heard it.

[Swordsmyth]

Perhaps if you spent your time pressuring Donald to urge the CIA to stop importing heroin and cocaine into the inner cities instead of blaming the end users, we might make some real progress.

I'll call him on my personal hotline right away and issue him his new orders.:sarcasm:

[TheCount]

Kanye's statements today show pretty clearly that Trump is fluid in his decision making. Trump is not a libertarian nor should any of us here pretend that he sold himself as being one. He goes with whatever the best idea can be presented to him.

A more accurate way of saying this is to say that he is entirely unprincipled.


If he listens to whoever gives him the best deal, how do you suppose that will trend in a liberty direction? It's objectively the choice which provides him with the least personal benefit.

[Krugminator2]

.

From Murray Rothbard:


Worth noting that Murray Rothbard was an absolute imbecile on anything related to politics and was a mediocre to bad economist. Rothbard had no interest acting life a scientist in search of truth. Instead, he wanted to be a cult builder.


Actually Trump & Reagan are very much alike

And the economist Rothbard is most similar to (at least in style) is Paul Krugman. They are both fundamentally dishonest and will say anything to be provocative.

[devil21]

I'll call him on my personal hotline right away and issue him his new orders.:sarcasm:

I'll settle for commenting on it here instead then. Recognize and address the illness instead of spending all your time on the symptoms.

Btw, they DO pay attention to what's posted on the net. What do you think all of the data collection/surveillance is for?? Ask Cambridge Analytica.

[Ender]

Worth noting that Murray Rothbard was an absolute imbecile on anything related to politics and was a mediocre to bad economist. Rothbard had no interest acting life a scientist in search of truth. Instead, he wanted to be a cult builder.



And the economist Rothbard is most similar to (at least in style) is Paul Krugman. They are both fundamentally dishonest and will say anything to be provocative.

Ron Paul would disagree:

Ron Paul:

It would be difficult to exaggerate Professor Murray N. Rothbard’s influence on the movement for freedom and free markets. He is the living giant of Austrian economics, and he has led the now-formidable movement ever since the death of his great teacher, Ludwig von Mises, in 1971. We are all indebted to him for the living link he has provided to Mises, upon whose work he has built and expanded. But many are less aware of Rothbard’s political influence. Some would say that while he is undoubtedly an excellent economist, his political efforts have been less than successful. I would deny this.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/03/ron-paul/political-importance-murray-rothbard/

[Swordsmyth]

I'll settle for commenting on it here instead then. Recognize and address the illness instead of spending all your time on the symptoms.

I have commented on it before and I will in the future.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

The main culprit is modern American urbanization. Urban areas digest most communities, set people against each other and create all sorts of pathologies. Then, increasing police presence is demanded by the law-abiding members of the public to fight the horrible behavior engineered by the cities. We need to rethink just what it is a modern city can look like in the West. Singapore would be a good place to look to for inspiration.

[eleganz]

A more accurate way of saying this is to say that he is entirely unprincipled.


If he listens to whoever gives him the best deal, how do you suppose that will trend in a liberty direction? It's objectively the choice which provides him with the least personal benefit.


Thats exactly the point. Why does anybody here even pretend that this guy is trying to be a libertarian? He couldn't give a rats ass about the label. However he has an ego and wants to succeed and leave a legacy. He is motivated to do well and fortunately as a businessman, he knows libertarian policies work and has brought on people with those ideas. Sure the Trump administration is not a Ron Paul convention but anybody who expects that much is obviously delusional and does not know how to set expectations for themselves.

If you want the right policy, influence it, there are a ton of ways, you're a capitalist, get innovative. How much influence do you think is wielded complaining on RPF that is literally read by the few of us left that still like RP? Trump gives no shts about the purist libertarian complaints, no shts at all. But he does care what Rand has to say every once in a while and looks at Rand's ideas with serious consideration. All the while the purists give him sht day and night for not Libertarianism'ing hard enough. God its pathetic.

[TheCount]

He is motivated to do well and fortunately as a businessman, he knows libertarian policies work and has brought on people with those ideas.
Except for the fact that his business practices were (and still are) based upon lobbying and use of government to further himself and his brand.

If, as a businessman, he knows that libertarian policies work, why do his decades of political donations tell exactly the opposite story? Why do decades of his political speech tell the opposite story?


If you want the right policy, influence it, there are a ton of ways, you're a capitalist, get innovative. How much influence do you think is wielded complaining on RPF that is literally read by the few of us left that still like RP? Trump gives no shts about the purist libertarian complaints, no shts at all. But he does care what Rand has to say every once in a while and looks at Rand's ideas with serious consideration. All the while the purists give him sht day and night for not Libertarianism'ing hard enough. God its pathetic.

This may shock and amaze you, but posting on RPF does not prevent one from performing any other kind of political activism.

[devil21]

The main culprit is modern American urbanization. Urban areas digest most communities, set people against each other and create all sorts of pathologies. Then, increasing police presence is demanded by the law-abiding members of the public to fight the horrible behavior engineered by the cities. We need to rethink just what it is a modern city can look like in the West. Singapore would be a good place to look to for inspiration.

Is that a joke? Singapore puts people to DEATH over drug offenses and firearms law violations. Surely you're kidding. Singapore? I can't imagine living in a country where laws written by the ivory tower for drug offenses and gun offenses leads to DEATH sentences. Holy crap.

Then again, Trump said he wanted to execute drug dealers also.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

Is that a joke? Singapore puts people to DEATH over drug offenses and firearms law violations. Surely you're kidding. Singapore? I can't imagine living in a country where laws written by the ivory tower for drug offenses and gun offenses leads to DEATH sentences. Holy crap.

Then again, Trump said he wanted to execute drug dealers also.
Singapore does a great many things I, personally, would disagree with. But they also went from 3rd to 1st world within two generations and have the second freest market on Earth. Lee Kuan Yew was the greatest statesman of the latter 20th Century, and it isn't close. Also despite being pretty much entirely urbanized, it almost totally lacks the kind of problems that are endemic in big cities in the US. I'm not saying we should adopt Singaporean drug policies, I'm saying that cities can be built better.

[nobody's_hero]

A more accurate way of saying this is to say that he is entirely unprincipled.


If he listens to whoever gives him the best deal . . .

Technically, He's an egotistically-motivated populist president. He's gonna listen to whoever helps him win.

If Kanye gets him to change his stance on stop-and-frisk, he'll win hands-down. Frankly, he's an idiot if he doesn't. And, you're right, it wouldn't be a principled and heart-felt change of stance for the sake of liberty. Rand Paul would have to play a hell of a lot more golf with Trump if you're looking for that sort of break-through.

EDIT: I actually posted that before I read down to eleganz's reply and I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one who made the analysis. (Damn you eleganz, you beat me to it :p)

[devil21]

Singapore does a great many things I, personally, would disagree with. But they also went from 3rd to 1st world within two generations and have the second freest market on Earth. Lee Kuan Yew was the greatest statesman of the latter 20th Century, and it isn't close. Also despite being pretty much entirely urbanized, it almost totally lacks the kind of problems that are endemic in big cities in the US. I'm not saying we should adopt Singaporean drug policies, I'm saying that cities can be built better.

I'm not sure what exactly a PaleoLibertarian is but I can't imagine it including supporting extreme police state measures like Singapore does, like executing drug offenders and firearms violations. Libertarians are usually in support of a lessened War on Drugs and respecting the 2nd amendment, not CAPITAL PUNISHMENT for drugs and gun offenses. Maybe you should look a little deeper into the state of things in Singapore and recognize that the reason it appears so "smooth" is because it's a complete police state and everyone is terrified of the authorities. I honestly can't imagine what is even remotely Libertarian about Singapore when it comes to freedom. Jeez, they even already have a "social credit system" implemented, based on demerit points. You're really just advocating for the Agenda 21/2030 police state model.

https://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2018/04/10/public-voice-concerns-over-singapore-becoming-a-police-state-with-implementation-of-smart-lamp-posts/

[eleganz]

Except for the fact that his business practices were (and still are) based upon lobbying and use of government to further himself and his brand.

If, as a businessman, he knows that libertarian policies work, why do his decades of political donations tell exactly the opposite story? Why do decades of his political speech tell the opposite story?



This may shock and amaze you, but posting on RPF does not prevent one from performing any other kind of political activism.


Yea Trump makes donations far and wide, to anybody in power. Its no surprise if you want to play with the big boys in hot real estate markets. As if donating to politicians to get favorability makes you not a good business person.

At this point, do you even know what you're arguing for anymore?

To recap, you said Trump was unprincipled, to which I agreed with you and added that is driven by self-interest and legacy and is a good businessman in the general sense. (I don't think anybody here will question the idea that Trump is successful at branding and starting and finishing large projects, even considering his inheritance).

Then you brought up how he donates and that makes him not a good business person, which is not really even a relevant point, and feels more like changing the topic than anything else.

Also feel like so you don't want to admit that your view is about being lazy and wanting to complain over doing something realistic and with trackable progress. Don't forget there are libertarians working in this administration and they get to influence policy of a sitting POTUS.

And you, just want to complain that a business person donates to politicians?

Sorry man, I really don't get get your perspective. Thats why people like Trump end up in the oval office and political purists who only wish to have everything their way, end up with absolutely nothing.

[nobody's_hero]

Yea Trump makes donations far and wide, to anybody in power. Its no surprise if you want to play with the big boys in hot real estate markets. As if donating to politicians to get favorability makes you not a good business person.

At this point, do you even know what you're arguing for anymore?

To recap, you said Trump was unprincipled, to which I agreed with you and added that is driven by self-interest and legacy and is a good businessman in the general sense. (I don't think anybody here will question the idea that Trump is successful at branding and starting and finishing large projects, even considering his inheritance).

Then you brought up how he donates and that makes him not a good business person, which is not really even a relevant point, and feels more like changing the topic than anything else.

Also feel like so you don't want to admit that your view is about being lazy and wanting to complain over doing something realistic and with trackable progress. Don't forget there are libertarians working in this administration and they get to influence policy of a sitting POTUS.

And you, just want to complain that a business person donates to politicians?

Sorry man, I really don't get get your perspective. Thats why people like Trump end up in the oval office and political purists who only wish to have everything their way, end up with absolutely nothing.

There are those of us who vaguely see a bigger picture. Those of us who are reading into Trump too much (taking him too seriously). Those of us who don't agree with him but respect and, well, sort of envy his political savvy. And there are those who get on here and rage because we are not moving towards liberty quite in the same way they had perhaps envisioned in their minds. —Not moving fast enough. —Stumbling along the way. Perhaps we thought 300,000,000+ Americans were gonna all collectively get up to make coffee one morning, slip on a kitchen floor, bump their heads and wake up moments later with a case of amnesia and a profound understanding of liberty. Rather than taking advantage of (real) opportunities where we can get them (meaning, sorry, Rand wasn't gonna be president, at least not this time around), we're just supposed to sit on the living room floor and pout like a kid at Christmas whose parents bought the wrong toy. And if you don't agree with doing that, well, F. U.

I personally, am having fun. This is the craziest god-damn presidency we've had in ages. There's nothing this president is doing wrong that we wouldn't have had to fix later if anyone else had won in 2016, given the options. And he is, accidentally, getting some stuff right.

[Cap]

There are those of us who vaguely see a bigger picture. Those of us who are reading into Trump too much (taking him too seriously). Those of us who don't agree with him but respect and, well, sort of envy his political savvy. And there are those who get on here and rage because we are not moving towards liberty quite in the same way they had perhaps envisioned in their minds. —Not moving fast enough. —Stumbling along the way. Perhaps we thought 300,000,000+ Americans were gonna all collectively get up to make coffee one morning, slip on a kitchen floor, bump their heads and wake up moments later with a case of amnesia and a profound understanding of liberty. Rather than taking advantage of (real) opportunities where we can get them (meaning, sorry, Rand wasn't gonna be president, at least not this time around), we're just supposed to sit on the living room floor and pout like a kid at Christmas whose parents bought the wrong toy. And if you don't agree with doing that, well, F. U.

I personally, am having fun. This is the craziest god-damn presidency we've had in ages. There's nothing this president is doing wrong that we wouldn't have had to fix later if anyone else had won in 2016, given the options. And he is, accidentally, getting some stuff right.
And then there are those of us waiving a red flag signalling that we are indeed moving away from liberty.

[eleganz]

And then there are those of us waiving a red flag signalling that we are indeed moving away from liberty.


Lol, "moving away from liberty". Don't forget, the liberty movement (and I'm only really calling it a movement for old times sake) has virtue signaling too, except nobody really hears it since barely anybody cares about what we have to say now.

Have you joined the TDS resistance in their rage-a-thon protests? They have the red flag raised all day.

[TheCount]

Yea Trump makes donations far and wide, to anybody in power. Its no surprise if you want to play with the big boys in hot real estate markets. As if donating to politicians to get favorability makes you not a good business person.

It's not about being a good business person or a bad business person; this is a strawman which is entirely unrelated to the topic. You claimed that being a business person somehow gave him some sort of appreciation or affinity for libertarianism. Now you're admitting that is not the case.

This is how he thinks that the world works: The rich pay bribes to politicians in order to gain favors from government, favors which they then use as weapons against their competition or against those who cannot afford government favor. This is a system which is fundamentally incompatible with libertarian government.

When a person like that becomes a politician, what, then, is their expectation? That now it is their turn to receive bribes and dispense the favor of government. Why else would a person who is, according to you, working exclusively in his own self-interest take what is, on the surface, a dramatic loss of income in order to work in government?

Libertarian policies are objectively the least profitable policies for government, for government employees, and for politicians, because it makes them less able to sell/lease their government powers. Therefore, it's contradictory to claim that he is a person who is out to maximize their personal gain, self-interest, and legacy would simultaneously work to eliminate their own power.

[homahr]

https://www.facebook.com/chevez.green/videos/2145793782121673/