Increased Crime By Mentally Ill Homeless Worries San Francisco North Beach Residents

[Swordsmyth]

Residents of San Francisco’s North Beach neighborhood packed a community meeting on Monday night to voice their concerns about the concurrent increases of both homelessness and crime in the area. Over the weekend, San Francisco police said a mentally ill homeless man viciously attacked a man walking in Washington Square Park with his young son.
This attack was just one example in an uptick of violent incidents that have occurred in North Beach over the last six months.
“A huge uptick in crime and quality of life issues that have become frightening for a lot of people,” said Erica Sandberg, a San Francisco resident.
Reports of mentally ill homeless people committing a variety of crimes in San Francisco have increased in recent months. Some of these crimes include the homicide of a store clerk and the random stabbing of two people with scissors just down from the crooked section of Lombard Street.


Because of the increase in crime, a standing-room-only crowd packed a community center in North Beach to voice their concerns and to hear what city leaders are doing to keep neighborhoods safe.
San Francisco Police Chief Bill Scott and City Supervisor Aaron Peskin were at the meeting.
“We’ve got increased homeless problems and people who heretofore haven’t been violent or aggressive, and now are. And everybody is at their wit’s end,” said Peskin.

More at: https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/10/01/increased-crime-caused-by-mentally-ill-homeless-worries-north-beach-residents/

[Zippyjuan]

What should be done with them? Put them in jail at taxpayer expense? Give them mental or substance abuse treatment at taxpayer expense? Let them be? Is there a Libertarian solution to homelessness and mental illness and substance abuse?

[Anti Globalist]

And the grave gets bigger and bigger.

[Pauls' Revere]

What should be done with them? Put them in jail at taxpayer expense? Give them mental or substance abuse treatment at taxpayer expense? Let them be? Is there a Libertarian solution to homelessness and mental illness and substance abuse?

Labor camps on "The Rock" they can make friendship bracelets.

[Brian4Liberty]

What should be done with them? Put them in jail at taxpayer expense? Give them mental or substance abuse treatment at taxpayer expense? Let them be? Is there a Libertarian solution to homelessness and mental illness and substance abuse?

And what’s your solution other than bleeding heart wailing about cruelty?

[timosman]

Bad news for Gavin Newsom. :cool:

[Brian4Liberty]

Residents of San Francisco’s North Beach neighborhood packed a community meeting on Monday night to voice their concerns about the concurrent increases of both homelessness and crime in the area. Over the weekend, San Francisco police said a mentally ill homeless man viciously attacked a man walking in Washington Square Park with his young son.
This attack was just one example in an uptick of violent incidents that have occurred in North Beach over the last six months.
“A huge uptick in crime and quality of life issues that have become frightening for a lot of people,” said Erica Sandberg, a San Francisco resident.
Reports of mentally ill homeless people committing a variety of crimes in San Francisco have increased in recent months. Some of these crimes include the homicide of a store clerk and the random stabbing of two people with scissors just down from the crooked section of Lombard Street.


Because of the increase in crime, a standing-room-only crowd packed a community center in North Beach to voice their concerns and to hear what city leaders are doing to keep neighborhoods safe.
San Francisco Police Chief Bill Scott and City Supervisor Aaron Peskin were at the meeting.
“We’ve got increased homeless problems and people who heretofore haven’t been violent or aggressive, and now are. And everybody is at their wit’s end,” said Peskin.

More at: https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/10/01/increased-crime-caused-by-mentally-ill-homeless-worries-north-beach-residents/

Lies, damn lies and government statistics. They have been intentionally under-reporting for decades. It’s just become so common that it can’t be ignored anymore. Critical mass.

[timosman]

Lies, damn lies and government statistics. They have been intentionally under-reporting for decades. It’s just become so common that it can’t be ignored anymore. Critical mass.

Property buyers rejoice. :D

[Danke]

What should be done with them? Put them in jail at taxpayer expense? Give them mental or substance abuse treatment at taxpayer expense? Let them be? Is there a Libertarian solution to homelessness and mental illness and substance abuse?

I don't know, maybe you should stop posting on a libertarian forum if you are so clueless.

Here you go: https://www.dailykos.com/news/forums

And stay there.

[timosman]

I don't know, maybe you should stop posting on a libertarian forum if you are so clueless.

Zippy signed a contract to destroy this forum with his trolling. He was almost done, but then the unexpected happened - http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?512744-Operation-RepBurn-a-Success!

[timosman]

I don't know, maybe you should stop posting on a libertarian forum if you are so clueless.

Here you go: https://www.dailykos.com/news/forums

And stay there.

The problem is Zippy is not very articulate. :D

[Zippyjuan]

Thanks everybody for their great suggestions on what to do about the problem!

[pcosmar]

Thanks everybody for their great suggestions on what to do about the problem!

The problem?

What is the problem? the mentally ill are seldom violent.. Substance use or abuse is a personal issue.
Crime has always been and will always be,, and the Housing prices in California are criminal.

Where is the law that requires someone to have a home?

[dannno]

Thanks everybody for their great suggestions on what to do about the problem!

How about lower the minimum wage so they become employable?

[Pauls' Revere]

Thanks everybody for their great suggestions on what to do about the problem!

Its not a problem. Its the symptom of a problem. The problem is all the socialist welfare handout liberal BS that makes S.F. what it is. Fix that, and a lot of this goes away.

[TheTexan]

Why are the mentally ill even allowed to walk the streets? They should be in jail.

[dannno]

What should be done with them? Put them in jail at taxpayer expense? Give them mental or substance abuse treatment at taxpayer expense? Let them be? Is there a Libertarian solution to homelessness and mental illness and substance abuse?

How about stop taking half our shit so we can afford to do something more humane voluntarily?

[Pauls' Revere]

How about stop taking half our $#@! so we can afford to do something more humane voluntarily?

Because only government has the answers. <sarc>

[Zippyjuan]

How about stop taking half our $#@! so we can afford to do something more humane voluntarily?

So if you did not have to pay any taxes you would be taking care of the mentally ill homeless? How nice of you! Why don't you do it now? If it is voluntarily, it isn't costing you anything but time. No- if you had no taxes, you still would not do it. If you were so inclined, you would already be doing it.

[Swordsmyth]

So if you did not have to pay any taxes you would be taking care of the mentally ill homeless? How nice of you! Why don't you do it now? If it is voluntarily, it isn't costing you anything but time. No- if you had no taxes, you still would not do it. If you were so inclined, you would already be doing it.

That's right, let your inner commie all the way out for everyone to see.

[Zippyjuan]

That's right, let your inner commie all the way out for everyone to see.

Whatever you say Komrade!

[pcosmar]

So if you did not have to pay any taxes you would be taking care of the mentally ill homeless?

What makes you think I haven't ?

and on top of Tax when so blessed.

and I am homeless currently,, and am living with the mentally ill.

[Zippyjuan]

What makes you think I haven't ?

and on top of Tax when so blessed.

and I am homeless currently,, and am living with the mentally ill.

I am still sorry about your situation. Danno was saying he would help out but only if he wasn't taxed so much.

[pcosmar]

I am still sorry about your situation. Danno was saying he would help out but only if he wasn't taxed so much.

My situation is Fine.
I have owned half-million dollar home in a prime location.
I have owned a 20 acre farm in the rural north.

I am comfortably homeless.

[Danke]

That's right, let your inner commie all the way out for everyone to see.


it has been out for a while already.

[Swordsmyth]

it has been out for a while already.

But not usually this far out, he sounds like RepublicanGuy today.

[Danke]

But not usually this far out, he sounds like RepublicanGuy today.


True

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Is there a Libertarian solution to homelessness and mental illness and substance abuse?


I know the progressive solution to such issues. It's to selfishly demand more money from others through the heavy hand of government.

Maybe you selfish people should stop demanding that others pay, and, instead, reach in your own pockets.

[RJB]

I don't know, maybe you should stop posting on a libertarian forum if you are so clueless.

Here you go: https://www.dailykos.com/news/forums

And stay there.

Great advice. I hope Zip has the wisdom to listen.

[dannno]

So if you did not have to pay any taxes you would be taking care of the mentally ill homeless? How nice of you! Why don't you do it now? If it is voluntarily, it isn't costing you anything but time. No- if you had no taxes, you still would not do it. If you were so inclined, you would already be doing it.

I do it now, I would be able to do a lot more if half my shit wasn't being stolen which ends up making the problem worse.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

https://www.dailykos.com/news/forums



Hmm; another forum. Well, I just made a new account on Democratic Underground, but I don't have much interest anyway.

It's sorta funny because your avatar selection must come from the DU choices. They have the 50 state flags, so I picked Mississippi. It has, of course, the confederate flag in it. I'll see if it annoys anyone. :frog:

By the way, I don't have much interest to post on DU anyway. If anyone has been IP banned from there and wants the account, then I'll be glad to give it.

[oyarde]

The Govt has no solution to the homeless problem . It is not the place of govt .They are homeless because they desire that . If people want to donate to local charities to help then great . As far as them becoming violent and attacking people , if that happens they are no different then anyone else and should be dealt with quickly and harshly . San Fran is a shithole for a variety of reasons that pretty much revolve around the failed govt .

[nobody's_hero]

Well, when you subsidize something, you get more of it. No matter how "feel good" your intentions are, this is the consequence.

And with all the government aid programs that California is dumping money into, it's not so surprising that the state has become a "promised land" for homeless people.

[Schifference]

Situation one a person carries all his supplies with him. He lives in the woods off the land. He is a survivor.

Situation two a person carries all his supplies with him. He lives in the city off the government. He is homeless.

[AZJoe]

So if you did not have to pay any taxes you would be taking care of the mentally ill homeless? How nice of you! Why don't you do it now? If it is voluntarily, it isn't costing you anything but time. No- if you had no taxes, you still would not do it. If you were so inclined, you would already be doing it.

Yes Zippy , end the income tax as step one.
Yes with more money danno, you and the millions of people who donate and help private charities can donate more to charities and churches and other organizations.
Not only does ending the theft of peoples earnings and labor increase the wealth of earner, it drives down prices makes the cost of living a fraction of what it is now.
People can afford to survive and afford not be homeless. Those who do work can afford to work less, and still have a higher standard of living and be able to donate more time to their communities.
More jobs, more opportunities.
Step 2 end the minimum wage barriers. Especially in California where the $15/hour is a draconian barrier to the less desirable workers - people lacking a consistent job history, emotional mental challenges, or limited skills.
Government is the cause of much of the homelessness.
This is common sense 101.

[RJB]

Situation one a person carries all his supplies with him. He lives in the woods off the land. He is a survivor.

Situation two a person carries all his supplies with him. He lives in the city off the government. He is homeless.
Let me just add to situation two... He also leaves used condoms, needles, and literal shit around the property where I rent my business. He occasionally harrasses my patients with catcalls or calls them racists when they don't fall for his hustle.

[Brian4Liberty]

Thanks everybody for their great suggestions on what to do about the problem!

What are your solutions?

[Brian4Liberty]

The problem?

What is the problem? the mentally ill are seldom violent.. Substance use or abuse is a personal issue.
Crime has always been and will always be,, and the Housing prices in California are criminal.

Where is the law that requires someone to have a home?

That is the major point that can not be ignored. Being mentally ill, homeless or addicted is not, and should not be a crime. There is no problem to be solved.

Everything is a problem that needs to be fixed by government (to the left). The left also likes to group different types of people together under one label, so they hide the worst, and display the most sympathetic. With the actual homeless or illegal immigrants, they show the children, to hide the criminals.


Its not a problem. Its the symptom of a problem. The problem is all the socialist welfare handout liberal BS that makes S.F. what it is. Fix that, and a lot of this goes away.

Of course.


Why are the mentally ill even allowed to walk the streets? They should be in jail.

The leftist defense. Conflate the mentally ill with the criminally mentally ill.


The Govt has no solution to the homeless problem . It is not the place of govt .They are homeless because they desire that . If people want to donate to local charities to help then great . As far as them becoming violent and attacking people , if that happens they are no different then anyone else and should be dealt with quickly and harshly . San Fran is a shithole for a variety of reasons that pretty much revolve around the failed govt .

Exactly. The tolerance of bad (criminal) behavior is just as much of a magnet as free stuff. The real problem is criminal behavior by people, who may or may not be mentally ill, addicted or homeless. Thus, the solution has to do with having an appropriate and effective criminal justice system.


Well, when you subsidize something, you get more of it. No matter how "feel good" your intentions are, this is the consequence.

And with all the government aid programs that California is dumping money into, it's not so surprising that the state has become a "promised land" for homeless people.

Yep. But it’s all about “feelings” for the bleeding heart left.

[Valli6]

California should encourage all their homeless people to take advantage of the already existing resources currently available to refugees/illegal aliens. This would cover the costs for their housing, clothing, medical & mental health care, resettlement aid and all miscellaneous welfare.

They are literally in the same boat and both simply looking for a better way of life! There is no logical reason for them to be segregated.

These programs are already funded and waiting to help! Few, if any, conflicts would arise, since we know that the majority of people - of every race and nationality - are honest and nice! It would be racist to judge either of these groups by that small percentage who might be violent, insane, sexual predators, drug addicts, thieves, or who are proud to shit on your streets.

This could never get out of hand since, in California - and indeed most of America - there is no such thing as too-many-to-help! The money supply will remain endless because ALL decent, non-racist, non-nazi Americans want to pay for things that unknown people want.

:rolleyes:

[AZJoe]

Disturbing video - San Francisco man stomps on head of homeless man -

1075229462554263553

1075540346929479680

SFPD seeking assailant -
https://media.ktvu.com/media.ktvu.com/photo/2018/12/21/T%20SF%20BEATING%20FOLO_00.00.12.08_1545404175499. png_6550490_ver1.0_640_360.jpg

[AZJoe]

San Francisco

1055883790147510272

[AZJoe]

Wonderful San Francisco - Dec 28, 2018. jump to 1:30


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=169&amp;v=PD_SqVBUcbk

[AZJoe]

Last month Spotify abandoned its headquarters in the San Francisco Mid-Market (https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Spotify-gives-up-SF-Mid-Market-office-and-tax-13450875.php) location due to violence and safety concerns.


"Earlier this year a major medical convention (https://hotair.com/archives/2018/07/03/major-medical-convention-abandons-san-francisco-citing-street-safety/) announced it would not be returning to San Francisco because of concerns about street people and safety. That one decision cost the city approximately $40 million in tourism dollars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&amp;v=dLcoOIDJBsc

[euphemia]

I may well not be remembering this correctly. I think the rise in mentally ill homeless was a product of either the Reagan or Clinton administration when suddenly institutionalization was discouraged and they were all released to live on the streets.

[euphemia]

If I am anywhere close to he truth, it would be the reason why I believe one swipe of the pen will not resolve big government. Dropping all social programs without warning would flood the streets with more homeless. The rise in crime would be more than any city could bear. It might work just fine for the antisocial who live 50 miles from civilization, but it would not work for the majority of us who live and trade in cities.

[Schifference]

I may well not be remembering this correctly. I think the rise in mentally ill homeless was a product of either the Reagan or Clinton administration when suddenly institutionalization was discouraged and they were all released to live on the streets.

I think mental illness is off the charts and way different than any definition of the term from Reagan or Clinton years. Look at the melt downs of liberal's gays and all the other alphabets. When you hear that a huge percentage of college students have mental illness. Cmon this is a society problem. A liberal problem. A problem that has arisen from a lack of responsibility. An entitlement problem. Nothing Reagan or Clinton about this.

[Pauls' Revere]

I think mental illness is off the charts and way different than any definition of the term from Reagan or Clinton years. Look at the melt downs of liberal's gays and all the other alphabets. When you hear that a huge percentage of college students have mental illness. Cmon this is a society problem. A liberal problem. A problem that has arisen from a lack of responsibility. An entitlement problem. Nothing Reagan or Clinton about this.

^yup

[RJB]

I am so grateful that we moved past the oppressive era of Leave It To Beaver.

[euphemia]

No, but prior to Reagan, people were warehoused in institutions. Not a fan, for sure, but with no short-term prognosis for healing, I don’t know which is worse—being drugged forever, or freezing to death without any way to inform family.

I think there are some people who struggle with bipolar disorder or some serious mental illnesses. But I thin what we are seeing on college campuses stems from the dramatic rise in ADHD diagnoses in schools. Instead of modifying teaching and classroom management techniques, the system demands that kids be medicated. It’s considered a form of disability, which of course, has a stream of money attached to it. Systems profit from high numbers of learning-disabled kids. And the kids grow up thinking they are sick, that college is a right, and necessary for prosperity. So it doesn’t surprise me that all these “sick” kids are storming colleges and universities and demanding treatment for conditions caused by the system in the first place. They think they can’t cope because they are sick. They can’t cope because the system failed them.

[dannno]

If I am anywhere close to he truth, it would be the reason why I believe one swipe of the pen will not resolve big government. Dropping all social programs without warning would flood the streets with more homeless. The rise in crime would be more than any city could bear. It might work just fine for the antisocial who live 50 miles from civilization, but it would not work for the majority of us who live and trade in cities.

By the time Reagan was Governor of California in 1967, nearly half of the mentally ill patients in California had already been discharged.

Another law was passed that made it illegal to keep mental patients institutionalized indefinitely against their will.

Here is a pretty comprehensive history:

https://www.kqed.org/news/11209729/did-the-emptying-of-mental-hospitals-contribute-to-homelessness-here


What you have to consider, though, is that the government is freaking huge.. If you made government very small, and mental health was an issue that was really important to a lot of people, then mental health care could easily be funded privately or otherwise.

[Schifference]

There was a day back then when a person struggled with mental illness. Then it became a day when every child had ADHD or this or that. Now every adult has this or that.
Back then there was hope because an honest days work still provided an honest days wage. Now skilled labor is all but gone. Work hard and prosper these days is only for those that have the right network capabilities and the best connections.

[euphemia]

I agree. I also think if government was much smaller we would not be creating a society with so many pitfalls to mental health. Drugs in the water, GMO food, a system that profits from sick kids. It all needs to go away, and a little accountability for the patient might be conducive to family care.

[Schifference]

I agree. I also think if government was much smaller we would not be creating a society with so many pitfalls to mental health. Drugs in the water, GMO food, a system that profits from sick kids. It all needs to go away, and a little accountability for the patient might be conducive to family care.

I don't think people are on the streets because of drugs in the water or GMO foods. These days we have mentally ill delusional people walking around thinking others are ill.

[euphemia]

I don't think people are on the streets because of drugs in the water or GMO foods. These days we have mentally ill delusional people walking around thinking others are ill.

Why do you say that?

[RJB]

These days we have mentally ill delusional people walking around thinking others are ill. The craziest people I meet tend to think they are the only ones who are sane.

[euphemia]

I was asking Schifference why he does not think environmental factors play a role in mental health.

Unfounded reasoning does not mean someone is mentally ill. There are many behavior patterns that are damaging to self and others, but do not constitute mental illness.

[Schifference]

I was asking Schifference why he does not think environmental factors play a role in mental health.

Unfounded reasoning does not mean someone is mentally ill. There are many behavior patterns that are damaging to self and others, but do not constitute mental illness.

I did not say that environmental factors did not or could not play a role in mental health. I will say that the issues these people suffer from are much more complicated than water or GMO food. This is years of liberal society failures. This is failed government. Failed health care. Failed family support systems. Failure to accept responsibility for ones actions.

A person that weighs 1200 pounds and cannot get out of bed is not suffering from a food addiction. They are suffering from an enabled food addiction.

A change of environment is the cure for many mental issues.

[RJB]

I was asking Schifference why he does not think environmental factors play a role in mental health.

Unfounded reasoning does not mean someone is mentally ill. There are many behavior patterns that are damaging to self and others, but do not constitute mental illness.

I see. One of his statements reminded me of an incident.

I had an odd conversation lately with a 20 something year old. He was telling me how he was mistreated by his father and the Catholic Church. I joked about how the nuns beat me up. His eyes went crazy and then went on to tell me how he was on LSD and his father thought he was insane so he took the kid to a Catholic hospital. The guy then told me how the psyche doctor kept asking him questions as the kid (tripping on LSD) tried to explain how each letter is a vibration and each word and sentence is a string of vibrations. For some reason the shrink didn't stop to consider his words. Instead for some odd reason the shrink was more interested in diagnosising the erratic behavior. Then suddenly the shrink ordered two big orderlies to carry him off to a padded cell and for some reason the orderlies were not interested in the fact that each letter of the alphabet is a unique vibration. At this point in the story, the man could tell that I wasn't particularly interested in the fact that each letter is a vibration and he started to suspect that I was crazy too. That's when I made an excuse to go elsewhere.

ETA for some reason my notification says you responded to me, but you don't have anything I said in quotation.

[AZJoe]

John Stossel;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9pgh5EO6lw

[pcosmar]

I may well not be remembering this correctly. I think the rise in mentally ill homeless was a product of either the Reagan or Clinton administration when suddenly institutionalization was discouraged and they were all released to live on the streets.

Actually,, they were sent to prisons..

But then released at the end of sentence.

"Mental Health" diagnosis and care is handled by the same people that ran Mkultra.. and sell the drugs developed through those Government Funded Programs.

What do you expect?