Trump officials met with Venezuelan officers to discuss Maduro coup – report

[Zippyjuan]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/08/trump-nicolas-maduro-overthrow-venezuelan-meetings


The Trump administration held meetings with dissident Venezuelan military officers to discuss the overthrow of Venezuelan president Nicolás Maduro, the New York Times reported on Saturday. One officer was on the US sanctions list, the paper said.

US officials eventually declined to aid the coup plot, the Times said. But news of the administration’s openness to meeting with rebellious military officials conspiring to overthrow the Maduro government could hasten the South American country’s descent into political chaos.

The White House “declined to answer detailed questions about the talks”, the Times said, adding that the administration said in a statement it supported “dialogue with all Venezuelans who demonstrate a desire for democracy” in order to “bring positive change to a country that has suffered so much under Maduro”.

The report, for which the Times cited interviews with 11 current and former US officials and a former Venezuelan military commander who participated in the meetings, will likely encourage Maduro’s claims of US involvement in conspiracies against him.

Recently, two plots have reportedly been foiled. In May, a conspiracy involving top military officials codenamed Operation Constitution was thwarted. In early August, two explosive-laden drones failed to reach their target during a rally in Caracas.

Mari Carmen Aponte, a diplomat who oversaw Latin American affairs for the Obama administration, told the Times: “This is going to land like a bomb.”

Donald Trump has publicly threatened military intervention. In August 2017, he said: “We have many options for Venezuela, including a possible military option, if necessary.” In July this year, it was reported that at the time the president repeatedly pressed advisers about the feasibility of an invasion and brought it up in discussions with South American leaders, alarming many.

Trump’s public comments were condemned by the Venezuelan government as an “act of craziness” and criticized by allies in the region. According to the Times, the plotters saw the threat as an opportunity to establish communication with the US government, having been rebuffed by Obama.

“It was the commander in chief saying this now,” the former Venezuelan commander told the Times. “I’m not going to doubt it when this was the messenger.”

The commander spoke on the condition of anonymity, the report said, out of fear of reprisal by the Venezuelan government.

He is named on a list of Venezuelan military and security officials accused by the US, the Times wrote, of “serious crimes, including torturing critics, jailing hundreds of political prisoners, wounding thousands of civilians, trafficking drugs and collaborating with the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or Farc, which is considered a terrorist organization by the United States”.


More at link.

[Zippyjuan]

Related: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/04/trump-suggested-invading-venezuela-report


Trump repeatedly suggested Venezuela invasion, stunning top aides – report


Donald Trump repeatedly raised the possibility of invading Venezuela in talks with his top aides at the White House, according to a new report.

Trump brought up the subject of an invasion in public in August last year, saying: “We have many options for Venezuela, including a possible military option, if necessary.” But the president’s musings about the possibility of a US invasion were more extensive and persistent than that public declaration, according to the Associated Press.

The previous day Trump reportedly took his top officials by surprise in an Oval Office meeting, asking why the US could not intervene to remove the government of Nicolás Maduro on the grounds that Venezuela’s political and economic unraveling represented a threat to the region.

Quoting an unnamed senior administration official, the AP report said the suggestion stunned those present at the meeting, which included the then national security adviser, HR McMaster, and secretary of state, Rex Tillerson. Both have since left the administration.

The administration officials are said to have taken turns in trying to talk him out of the idea, pointing out that any such military action would alienate Latin American allies who had supported the US policy of punitive sanctions on the Maduro regime.

Their arguments do not seem to have dissuaded the president.

A grim-faced Tillerson stood alongside Trump the next day at his New Jersey golf course at Bedminster as the president warmed to his theme.

“We have many options for Venezuela, this is our neighbour,” Trump said.

“We’re all over the world and we have troops all over the world in places that are very, very far away, Venezuela is not very far away and the people are suffering and dying. We have many options for Venezuela including a possible military option if necessary.”

The White House announced later it had refused to take a call from Maduro. The Venezuelan defence minister, Vladimir Padrino, described Trump’s threat as an “act of craziness” and “supreme extremism”.

In the weeks that followed, Trump remained preoccupied with the idea of an invasion, according to AP. Shortly after the Bedminister remarks, he raised the issue with the Colombian president, Juan Manuel Santos, and then brought it up again at that year’s UN general assembly in September, at a private dinner with allied Latin American states.

At that dinner, Trump made clear he was ignoring the advice of his aides.

“My staff told me not to say this,” Trump said and then asked the other leaders at the table in turn, if they were sure they didn’t want a military solution.

McMaster finally succeeding in persuading Trump of the dangers of an invasion, the report said, and the president’s interest in the notion subsided.

Trump’s approach to military intervention has been erratic. He has been insistent on bringing troops back from Syria, and his administration is pushing to draw down troops in Europe. But Venezuela is not the only country he has threatened directly. Last year, he warned North Korea of impending “fire and fury” and total destruction if the country threatened the US with its nuclear weapons and missiles. After his summit with Kim Jong-un last month in Singapore, however, Trump presented military conflict as unthinkable, pointing out it would cost millions of lives.

[Swordsmyth]

I doubt it is true, if Trump wanted to intervene in Venezuela the Neocons would take him up on it.

[timosman]

I doubt it is true, if Trump wanted to intervene in Venezuela the Neocons would take him up on it.

He's probably planted this to track leaks.

[Zippyjuan]

August of last year: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/venezuela/article166825497.html


Trump says “military option” is possible in Venezuela

August 11, 2017 06:53 PM


The U.S. will not rule out a “military option” as it continues to ratchet up sanctions on Venezuela, President Donald Trump said Friday.

“We have many options for Venezuela, including a possible military option if necessary,” Trump told reporters at his New Jersey golf club.

“We are all over the world and we have troops all over the world in places that are very, very far away,” Trump said. “Venezuela is not very far away and people are suffering and dying.”

The comments come as Washington has stepped up sanctions against Venezuelan officials in recent weeks and just a day after President Nicolás Maduro said he wanted to talk to Trump to overcome both nation’s differences.

Maduro often accuses the United States of plotting invasions and coup attempts. Until now, Washington has always denied it had any military intentions against Venezuela.

When Trump was asked if the military options might include U.S. troops on the ground, he demurred.

“We don’t talk about it,” he said. “But a military operation...is certainly something we could pursue.”

[Swordsmyth]

August of last year: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/venezuela/article166825497.html

Many things are possible.

[phill4paul]

The report, for which the Times cited interviews with 11 current and former US officials

Names please? Or are these just "sources" that the NYT brings out weekly as a boogieman?

[juleswin]

And yet Zippy asks on a different thread "why would anyone wanna take over the basket case that is Venezuela?". Evidently Trump the thief wants to steal Venezuela's natural resources.

[Zippyjuan]

And yet Zippy asks on a different thread "why would anyone wanna take over the basket case that is Venezuela?". Evidently Trump the thief wants to steal Venezuela's natural resources.

I don't think Trump should attack Venezuela. And in that thread I said it was unlikely Brazil would go to war over Venezuela as the OP in it suggested would happen. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?525598-Brazil-Deploys-Troops-To-Venezuela-Border-After-Migrant-Chaos-This-Is-Going-To-Turn-Into-War

[Swordsmyth]

And yet Zippy asks on a different thread "why would anyone wanna take over the basket case that is Venezuela?".
That is a stupid question.


Evidently Trump the thief wants to steal Venezuela's natural resources.
Not likely, he is probably all that is preventing it.

[UWDude]

LOLNYT.

[Ender]

Attack Venezuela? Trump Can't be Serious!
By Ron Paul


Ron Paul Institute

August 15, 2017

There is something unsettling about how President Trump has surrounded himself with generals. From his defense secretary to his national security advisor to his White House chief of staff, Trump looks to senior military officers to fill key positions that have been customarily filled by civilians. He’s surrounded by generals and threatens war at the drop of a hat.

President Trump began last week by threatening “fire and fury” on North Korea. He continued through the week claiming, falsely, that Iran is violating the terms of the nuclear deal. He finally ended the week by threatening a US military attack on Venezuela.

He told reporters on Friday that, “We have many options for Venezuela including a possible military option if necessary. …We have troops all over the world in places that are very, very far away. Venezuela is not very far away and the people are suffering, and they are dying.”

Venezuela’s defense minister called Trump’s threat “an act of craziness.”

Time to buy old US gold coins

Even more worrisome, when Venezuelan president Nicolas Maduro tried to call President Trump for clarification he was refused. The White House stated that discussions with the Venezuelan president could only take place once democracy was restored in the country. Does that mean President Trump is moving toward declaring Maduro no longer the legitimate president of Venezuela? Is Trump taking a page from Obama’s failed regime change policy for Syria and declaring that “Maduro must go”?

The current unrest in Venezuela is related to the economic shortcomings of that country’s centrally-planned economy. The 20th century has shown us very clearly that state control over an economy leads to mismanagement, mal-investment, massive shortages, and finally economic collapse. That is why those of us who advocate free market economics constantly warn that US government intervention in our own economy is leading us toward a similar financial crisis.

But there is another factor in the unrest in Venezuela. For many years the United States government, through the CIA, the National Endowment for Democracy, and US government funded NGOs, have been trying to overthrow the Venezuelan government. They almost succeeded in 2002, when then-president Hugo Chavez was briefly driven from office. Washington has spent millions trying to manipulate Venezuela’s elections and overturn the results. US policy is to create unrest and then use that unrest as a pretext for US intervention.

Military officers play an important role in defending the United States. Their job is to fight and win wars. But the White House is becoming the war house and the president seems to see war as a first solution rather than a last resort. His threats of military action against a Venezuela that neither threatens nor could threaten the United States suggests a shocking lack of judgment.

Congress should take President Trump’s threats seriously. In the 1980s, when President Reagan was determined to overthrow the Nicaraguan government using a proxy army, Congress passed a series of amendments, named after their author, Rep. Edward Boland (D-MA), to prohibit the president from using funds it appropriated to do so. Congress should make it clear in a similar manner that absent a Venezuelan attack on the United States, President Trump would be committing a serious crime in ignoring the Constitution were he to follow through with his threats. Maybe they should call it the “We’re Not The World’s Policeman” act.

[UWDude]

There is another factor in the unrest in Venezuela. For many years the United States government, through the CIA, the National Endowment for Democracy, and US government funded NGOs, have been trying to overthrow the Venezuelan government. They almost succeeded in 2002, when then-president Hugo Chavez was briefly driven from office. Washington has spent millions trying to manipulate Venezuela’s elections and overturn the results. US policy is to create unrest and then use that unrest as a pretext for US intervention.

This is very true.
In fact, the biggest reason socialism fails is because of the pressure of US agencies. It is clearly an American foreign policy goal to topple any and all socialist and communist governments, so no successful examples can exist. Iraq and Libya under their leaders were doing quite well... ...so Was Assad's Syria.

The system doesn't matter. It is the leader's love for his people that matters.

[Swordsmyth]

Attack Venezuela? Trump Can't be Serious!
By Ron Paul
No. he can't be.