Illegal Immigrant heroes save American lives

[PierzStyx]

Lizzie Borden, who was unsuccessfully prosecuted in 1892 for the axe murders of her father and stepmother, had red hair. So did Lynette Fromme, who spent 34 years in prison for attempting to assassinate President Gerald Ford. Vladimir Lenin, the Bolshevik revolutionary who became one of history’s bloodiest mass murderers, was also a redhead. Ditto the Wild West gangster and bank robber Jesse James.

As those examples demonstrate, people with red hair are prone to violence and should be suppressed. Right?

Of course not.

Only a blockhead would pronounce redheads a singular threat on the strength of a few cherry-picked instances of villains with red hair. Pretty much any population subgroup will contain some number of vicious thugs. You can find “bad hombres” (to coin a phrase) among tall people or French speakers or tea drinkers or Methodists. So what? A handful of offenders within a group doesn’t mean the group as a whole is more likely to offend.

By Jeff Jacoby Globe Columnist March 08, 2017

Lizzie Borden, who was unsuccessfully prosecuted in 1892 for the axe murders of her father and stepmother, had red hair. So did Lynette Fromme, who spent 34 years in prison for attempting to assassinate President Gerald Ford. Vladimir Lenin, the Bolshevik revolutionary who became one of history’s bloodiest mass murderers, was also a redhead. Ditto the Wild West gangster and bank robber Jesse James.

As those examples demonstrate, people with red hair are prone to violence and should be suppressed. Right?

Of course not.

Only a blockhead would pronounce redheads a singular threat on the strength of a few cherry-picked instances of villains with red hair. Pretty much any population subgroup will contain some number of vicious thugs. You can find “bad hombres” (to coin a phrase) among tall people or French speakers or tea drinkers or Methodists. So what? A handful of offenders within a group doesn’t mean the group as a whole is more likely to offend.

The same is true of immigrants who are in the country illegally.

That should be self-evident. Yet among immigration restrictionists and seal-the-border hard-liners, it has become an article of faith that anyone who enters the country without a lawful visa is a “criminal alien” and a danger to public safety.

As a matter of straight fact, that belief is false. Decades of research confirm that immigrants to the United States are significantly less likely than native-born citizens to commit serious crimes or be in prison. It makes no difference whether immigrants enter the country with or without legal documents: Scores of peer-reviewed studies establish a negative correlation between immigration and crime. Just last week, Governing magazine reported that, in the 20 US metro areas with the greatest presence of immigrants here illegally, average rates of violent crime and property crime are 8 percent to 10 percent lower than the national average. During the 1990s and 2000s, as the number of unauthorized immigrants in the United States tripled to nearly 12 million, crime rates nationwide plunged more than 40 percent.

Donald Trump may be sincere when he insists that immigrants, especially those here illegally, are a threat to public safety. But he’s wrong. Immigration doesn’t increase crime, it reduces it.

Obviously there have been some brutal exceptions to the rule, and Trump has repeatedly made a point of highlighting Americans whose loved ones were killed by unauthorized immigrants. Four such Americans were in the visitors gallery during Trump’s Feb. 28 speech to Congress. He used their devastating stories to lend emotional support to his harsh immigration stance, and announced the creation of a new federal program — Victims of Immigration Crime Engagement, or VOICE — specifically to publicize crimes committed by migrants from other countries.

Singling out assaults committed by the foreign-born might be defensible if immigrants were predisposed to crime. But immigrants are unusually law-abiding. Harping on a few atypical examples amounts to raw demagoguery — the scapegoating of a stigmatized group to incite fear and hatred. Instead of beating the bushes for bad immigrants to demonize, federal officials should be drawing attention to immigrants who demonstrate extraordinary heroism.

Immigrants like William Ramirez, for example, a father of two from Colombia, who was on his way to his maintenance job at a boatyard when he witnessed a man trying to gun down a Miami police officer. Ramirez drove his van into the line of fire, shielding the policeman from the shooter and pulling him to safety.

Immigrants like Antonio Diaz Chacon, an unauthorized Mexican immigrant in Albuquerque, who saw a young girl being abducted off the street, and unhesitatingly pursued the kidnapper to rescue the child.

Immigrants like Jesus Manuel Cordova, who saved the life of a 9-year-old boy stranded in the Arizona desert. The boy’s mother had died in a car crash, leaving him helpless — until he was discovered by Cordova, who had just entered the country illegally. Cordova stayed with the boy, keeping watch for hours until someone eventually found them and contacted the authorities.

Far from degrading America through crime and violence, immigrants enhance our nation’s safety and security. There are a few shockingly bad apples, yes. Vastly more common are the heroes and hard workers who love this country and prove it daily. Diligent, peaceable, grateful, they enrich their communities in ways large and small, and, in so doing, continuously make America great again.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2017/03/08/immigrant-heroes-save-american-lives/oWxYpYHl6Z0jeRzpaPTQHM/story.html


Mr. Trump noted after Ms. Tibbetts’ death, “You heard about today, with the illegal alien coming in from, very sadly, from Mexico, and you saw what happened to that incredible, beautiful young woman.” And he added later, “The immigration laws are such a disgrace." Kris Kobach, the Kansas secretary of state running for governor as a Republican said after Tibbetts' death: "Every crime committed by an illegal alien is a crime that should never have occurred and would never have occurred if the illegal alien were not in our country."

And if you watch Fox News, I wouldn’t blame you for believing that undocumented immigrants and the immigration statutes that allow them in are an existential threat to the republic and that your children won’t be safe unless all such immigrants are kicked out. It might even make you sympathetic the Trump administration’s policy of separating border parents from their children, a policy which Reason Foundation Senior Analyst Shikha Dalmia rightfully described as neither just or humane.

But would stopping illegal immigration - even if doing so were easy (which it is not) - actually reduce crime rates in America? No.

Cause of Crime

Most credible research shows that immigrants, especially undocumented immigrants, commit fewer crimes, including violent crimes, than do native-born Americans. Cato Institute’s Alex Nowratesh compared crimes rates of immigrants to those of the native born in Texas and found that in 2016, “the homicide conviction rate for native-born Americans in Texas was 3.2 per 100,000 natives while it was 1.8 per 100,000 illegal immigrants and 0.9 per 100,000 legal immigrants.”

That means that for every 746 native-born Americans convicted of homicide in Texas, 32 undocumented immigrants and 28 legal immigrants were found guilty of similar crimes. Let these numbers sink in!

Facts such as these are why policy-making by anecdotes is unwise. But if you insist on anecdotes, I have anecdotes. You won’t hear this on Fox, but for every undocumented immigrant who commits a crime, one or more perform heroic acts.

https://www.aier.org/article/facts-about-immigration-and-crime


Immigrants actually lead to less crime!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_CWPDqotVg&t=31s

Turns out liberty does work and is safer.

[timosman]

Turns out liberty does work and is safer.

The article also makes a point about Communists being worse than Nazis. :cool:

[fedupinmo]

Most credible research shows that immigrants, especially undocumented immigrants, commit fewer crimes, including violent crimes, than do native-born Americans.
Illegal aliens commit crime 100% of the time, since it is a crime for them to be here. Also suspect is the grouping of legal immigrants in with the illegals to generate a statistic. Legal immigrants would be presumed to be a LOT less likely to commit crimes, since they went to a lot of trouble to be here legally.

[H_H]

Illegal Immigrant heroes save American lives Hmm, for Iowa college girls do they?

[Origanalist]

Immigrants like William Ramirez, for example, a father of two from Colombia, who was on his way to his maintenance job at a boatyard when he witnessed a man trying to gun down a Miami police officer. Ramirez drove his van into the line of fire, shielding the policeman from the shooter and pulling him to safety

Wait a minute, this makes him a hero?

[eleganz]

Most credible research shows that immigrants, especially undocumented immigrants, commit fewer crimes, including violent crimes, than do native-born Americans.
Illegal aliens commit crime 100% of the time, since it is a crime for them to be here. Also suspect is the grouping of legal immigrants in with the illegals to generate a statistic. Legal immigrants would be presumed to be a LOT less likely to commit crimes, since they went to a lot of trouble to be here legally.


Silly argument that is spread around like a dirty STD by a TDS liberal.

You can't deport an American but they are arrested for committing crimes and have records and progressive punishments like 3 strikes laws.

Illegals are off the radar, they can commit crimes and have low chances of getting caught and when they are caught, they are deported with no record to worry about since they work under the table anyways. There is no punishment since they're just deported over and over again for all of the crimes they commit.

They're only deporting illegals with a history of violence or being connected to it anyways.

Why RPF so basic these days...

[PierzStyx]

Most credible research shows that immigrants, especially undocumented immigrants, commit fewer crimes, including violent crimes, than do native-born Americans.
Illegal aliens commit crime 100% of the time, since it is a crime for them to be here. Also suspect is the grouping of legal immigrants in with the illegals to generate a statistic. Legal immigrants would be presumed to be a LOT less likely to commit crimes, since they went to a lot of trouble to be here legally.

It is not a crime for them to be here. Living in America, even undocumented, is not a crime.


As a general rule, it is not a crime for a removable alien to remain in the United States.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/567/387/

Which is why they are correctly referred to as undocumented immigrants. Illegal entry is a crime, but it is also a misdemeanor. So if you've ever went 46 in a 46 mph zone, crossed the street anywhere other than a crosswalk, or spat on the sidewalk you are exactly as much a criminal and committing as much crime as any undocumented immigrant.

Not that it really matters. Unjust laws, laws that violate your natural rights such as the right to move unimpeded across land that is not privately owned, are not laws at all. They're illegal edicts by a corrupt government that should be disobeyed.

Further, since the Constitution doesn't authorize the federal government to regulate immigration and then forbids the federal government from doing anything it isn't explicitly authorized to do in the Tenth Amendment, any attempted by the government to authorize itself to regulate immigration is a violation of the Constitution, the supreme law of the land, and is therefore illegal. Undocumented immigrants are not criminals but those trying to beat, cage, kill them, and steal their property -those who want to regulate immigration- are the real criminals.

Also, you really should actually read the quote you referenced. Here, let me help you:


Most credible research shows that immigrants, especially undocumented immigrants, commit fewer crimes, including violent crimes, than do native-born Americans.

Just because you don't like the fact that undocumented immigrants commit less crimes doesn't make it any less true. In fact it makes a lot of sense that they commit less crimes. If you speed you get a ticket. If they speed they get deported. Therefore they have a far greater reason to not speed than you do.

[PierzStyx]

[QUOTE=fedupinmo;6676672]


Silly argument that is spread around like a dirty STD by a TDS liberal.

You can't deport an American but they are arrested for committing crimes and have records and progressive punishments like 3 strikes laws.

Illegals are off the radar, they can commit crimes and have low chances of getting caught and when they are caught, they are deported with no record to worry about since they work under the table anyways. There is no punishment since they're just deported over and over again for all of the crimes they commit.

They're only deporting illegals with a history of violence or being connected to it anyways.

Why RPF so basic these days...

This is demonstrably false. When people are arrested a file is create don them. Native born, legal immigrant, or undocumented, everyone gets a file. And that file isn't just destroyed when they're deported. That is nonsense. This is one of the ways we actually keep track of people who are deported multiple times, which creates stiffer and stiffer penalties beyond just deportation -not that being beaten, caged, and having all your property stolen by thugs in jackboots is a "light" punishment- including it becoming a federal crime and including imprisonment. So your main claim- that you can't know how many crimes what kinds of people commit, is proven false.

Secondly, your claim that undocumented people somehow commit sneakier secret crimes that no one can ever know about, if you have any evidence that would be intriguing. But since by its very nature such a paranoid conspiracy is unprovable, your fears can also be dismissed by anyone interested in the real world.

The evidence is quite clear. Immigrants commit far less crimes and actually cause less crimes to be committed in areas where they live because they disrupt the networks of the native-born criminal element.

And the fact that many of them are outright heroes is just icing on the cake. But that doesn't fit your Progressive narrative that helps you fulfill your want to control and limit everything. Someone with a gun does something bad? TAKE ALL THE GUNS! Someone from another country does something bad? DEPORT ALL THE PEOPLE! Same bad logic, same tyrannical ends.

[H_H]

I just want to hear about some Iowa college girls whose lives are being saved by these criminal aliens.

[Swordsmyth]

Liberal lies.

And crime is not the primary problem with excessive or illegal immigration, politics is #1 and culture is #2.

[PierzStyx]

Hmm, for Iowa college girls do they?

They do in Florida, New Mexico, and Arizona. Even in France. I have no doubt they do in Iowa too.


Immigrants like William Ramirez, for example, a father of two from Colombia, who was on his way to his maintenance job at a boatyard when he witnessed a man trying to gun down a Miami police officer. Ramirez drove his van into the line of fire, shielding the policeman from the shooter and pulling him to safety.

Immigrants like Antonio Diaz Chacon, an unauthorized Mexican immigrant in Albuquerque, who saw a young girl being abducted off the street, and unhesitatingly pursued the kidnapper to rescue the child.

Immigrants like Jesus Manuel Cordova, who saved the life of a 9-year-old boy stranded in the Arizona desert. The boy’s mother had died in a car crash, leaving him helpless — until he was discovered by Cordova, who had just entered the country illegally. Cordova stayed with the boy, keeping watch for hours until someone eventually found them and contacted the authorities.



A young Malian man was hailed a hero on Sunday after he sprang into action to save a four-year-old child hanging from a fourth-floor balcony by single-handedly scaling the facade of the building and hauling the youngster to safety.

https://www.france24.com/en/20180528-hero-mali-migrant-saves-child-paris-balcony-france

They also become brain surgeons.


Just a few examples. Though really, simply defying the state the way they do is heroic all by itself.
https://www.wbaltv.com/article/boy-has-wish-to-ride-in-ferrari-granted/22996757

[PierzStyx]

Liberal lies.

And crime is not the primary problem with excessive or illegal immigration, politics is #1 and culture is #2.

Except you know, for two of those sources coming from libertarians. See, facts are difficult things. They simply don't buy into your bullshit. But keep on. You're only proving that you have to be intentionally stupid to think the way you do.

You're right about politics and culture being problems though. Your Progressive politics that justifies violating the Constitution and beating, caging, and murdering people in pursuit of your cultural Marxist identity politics (Gotta "protect" those white Christians from the other mostly white Christians!) are definitely the problem in all this. Your love of tyranny is sickening and destructive to America's culture of liberty and history of freedom.

[Swordsmyth]

Except you know, for two of those sources coming from libertarians. See, facts are difficult things. They simply don't buy into your bull$#@!. But keep on. You're only proving that you have to be intentionally stupid to think the way you do.
LIBERALtarians, the open borders crowd assumes many disguises in pursuit of global tyranny. (You for instance)


You're right about politics and culture being problems though. Your Progressive politics that justifies violating the Constitution and beating, caging, and murdering people in pursuit of your cultural Marxist identity politics (Gotta "protect" those white Christians from the other mostly white Christians!) are definitely the problem in all this. Your love of tyranny is sickening and destructive to America's culture of liberty and history of freedom.
LOL

The more you accuse people who want sensible moderate measures of being NAZIs the less people will listen to you.
I wouldn't even care but you also desensitize people to actual NAZIs. (Is that your real intent?)

[Brian4Liberty]

Only a blockhead would pronounce redheads a singular threat on the strength of a few cherry-picked instances of villains with red hair. Pretty much any population subgroup will contain some number of vicious thugs. You can find “bad hombres” (to coin a phrase) among tall people or French speakers or tea drinkers or Methodists. So what? A handful of offenders within a group doesn’t mean the group as a whole is more likely to offend.

Agree. It would be collectivist to make such an assumption.


Immigration doesn’t increase crime, it reduces it.

LOL. But the author has no problem in turning right around and making the opposite generalization. It seems this would prove the author to be a “blockhead”.

[eleganz]

[QUOTE=eleganz;6676719]

This is demonstrably false. When people are arrested a file is create don them. Native born, legal immigrant, or undocumented, everyone gets a file. And that file isn't just destroyed when they're deported. That is nonsense. This is one of the ways we actually keep track of people who are deported multiple times, which creates stiffer and stiffer penalties beyond just deportation -not that being beaten, caged, and having all your property stolen by thugs in jackboots is a "light" punishment- including it becoming a federal crime and including imprisonment. So your main claim- that you can't know how many crimes what kinds of people commit, is proven false.

Secondly, your claim that undocumented people somehow commit sneakier secret crimes that no one can ever know about, if you have any evidence that would be intriguing. But since by its very nature such a paranoid conspiracy is unprovable, your fears can also be dismissed by anyone interested in the real world.



Lol, this goes back to my question of why RPF is so basic these days.

Yes we all know there are files, it would be stupid for someone in 2018 to think that there isn't a database for illegal aliens, especially those that commit crimes. When they get deported and come back, there is no concern for whatever is on the record since they work under the table anyways. No background checks, no references, nothing.

[Origanalist]

Liberal lies.

And crime is not the primary problem with excessive or illegal immigration, politics is #1 and culture is #2.

1. https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQTeloo4sWu9T06ndetbtmhKVYUgBipM CG4Da3elbFgKsk6YThSSA

2. Lol

[Swordsmyth]

1. https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQTeloo4sWu9T06ndetbtmhKVYUgBipM CG4Da3elbFgKsk6YThSSA
Just who in that picture isn't a liberal?



2. Lol
LOL

[Origanalist]

Just who in that picture isn't a liberal?



LOL

Who in this picture isn't a liberal?

https://pmcdeadline2.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/donald-trump-e1535388221350.jpg?w=446&h=299&crop=1

Just because other liberals despise him doesn't make him any less liberal. He's just a ribbon cutter full of hot air.

[Swordsmyth]

Who in this picture isn't a liberal?

https://pmcdeadline2.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/donald-trump-e1535388221350.jpg?w=446&h=299&crop=1

Just because other liberals despise him doesn't make him any less liberal. He's just a ribbon cutter full of hot air.
:rolleyes:

[H_H]

They do in Florida, New Mexico, and Arizona. Even in France. I have no
They also become brain surgeons. Ahh yes. These guys are going to fill all the tech jobs and pay our pensions. Good to see one man at least is keeping up that line. Everyone else just dropped it. Traitors. You, though, are a True Believer.

But I am asking only about Iowa College Girls. Not ugly Florida whatevers. Don’t care about them. Iowa. College. Girls. Tell me about what the Brain Surgeon Saviors have done for Iowa College Girls lately. Do you happen to know of anything?

Any recent incidents?

Thanks, Pierz. I owe you one.


Just a few examples. Though really, simply defying the state the way they do is heroic all by itself.
Bro, dealing heroin and getting kids hooked on speed is defying the state. How hosed has your compass become that you would call that “heroic”?

Defy your mind bug. Come back to reality.

[CaptUSA]

Just who in that picture isn't a liberal?



LOL

Pretty sure that the suggestion was that politics and culture are ALREADY screwed up. Didn't need immigrants - we did that job ourselves. "D" authoritarians and "R" authoritarians both like to grow government. And you're certainly no exception. I suppose it feels comfy to have a scapegoat for your own chickens coming home to roost.

[Philhelm]

Liberty be damned, there is no reason to willingly open the gates to a huge, wooden horse with furtive snickering echoing within.

[Swordsmyth]

Pretty sure that the suggestion was that politics and culture are ALREADY screwed up. Didn't need immigrants - we did that job ourselves. "D" authoritarians and "R" authoritarians both like to grow government. And you're certainly no exception. I suppose it feels comfy to have a scapegoat for your own chickens coming home to roost.
:rolleyes:
If you think America is as bad as things can get you are incredibly naive, the barbarians flooding our borders will make things much worse if we let them.
Your assertions about me are ridiculous, I want to take a chainsaw to government but in order to do that we must stop the Demoncrats from burying us in hordes of communists.

[PierzStyx]

LIBERALtarians, the open borders crowd assumes many disguises in pursuit of global tyranny. (You for instance)


LOL

The more you accuse people who want sensible moderate measures of being NAZIs the less people will listen to you.
I wouldn't even care but you also desensitize people to actual NAZIs. (Is that your real intent?)

First of all, don't think I didn't notice you have no actual response for eh argument other than ad hominem attacks. When your reasoning skills are so limited that is the ebst you've got, you might as well surrender.

Second, I'm a liberal? Ha. We can settle this simply. Let us ask a bonafide Lefty Liberal, Democratic Socialist Bernie Sanders what liberals think about immigration.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf-k6qOfXz0&t=48s

Well look at that. The actual Socialist position is OPPOSITION to open borders. The Socialist position is FOR regulated borders to "protect American jobs," to "protect American wages," and has a duty to worry about "America first."

Now, who does this remind us of? Oh yeah, you.

So it isn't hard to figure out who the Progressives are. They are the people, like yourself, who spout Progressive and anti-free market ideas about immigration. When it walks like a Progressive, looks like a Progressive, and talks like a Progressive, its a Progressive.

And, to help you past your reading fail, I didn't call you a Nazi. I called you a Progressive cultural Marxist. Which you are. As I demonstrated above.

[PierzStyx]

]Liberty be damned[/U], there is no reason to willingly open the gates to a huge, wooden horse with furtive snickering echoing within.

See folks. Exactly what I mean. The Progressive cultural Marxists who want to regulate the borders hate you and they hate liberty and they are happy to beat, cage, steal from, and murder anyone who dares oppose them.

[PierzStyx]

:rolleyes:
If you think America is as bad as things can get you are incredibly naive, the barbarians flooding our borders will make things much worse if we let them.
Your assertions about me are ridiculous, I want to take a chainsaw to government but in order to do that we must stop the Demoncrats from burying us in hordes of communists.

When you're idea of a chainsaw to government is a large police state with the power to steal the lives, liberty, and property of millions of people, track the labor of everyone, and violate the basic human rights of millions of people in order to ensure your version of Cultural Marxism is triumphant as you wish to do, it just demonstrates you're either a liar lying about their motives, a moron too stupid to realize what they're calling for will entail, or completely deluded and think a growing police state makes you free.

You Progressives are really a sickening, cowardly bunch.

[Swordsmyth]

First of all, don't think I didn't notice you have no actual response for eh argument other than ad hominem attacks. When your reasoning skills are so limited that is the ebst you've got, you might as well surrender.

Second, I'm a liberal? Ha. We can settle this simply. Let us ask a bonafide Lefty Liberal, Democratic Socialist Bernie Sanders what liberals think about immigration.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf-k6qOfXz0&t=48s

Well look at that. The actual Socialist position is OPPOSITION to open borders. The Socialist position is FOR regulated borders to "protect American jobs," to "protect American wages," and has a duty to worry about "America first."

Now, who does this remind us of? Oh yeah, you.

So it isn't hard to figure out who the Progressives are. They are the people, like yourself, who spout Progressive and anti-free market ideas about immigration. When it walks like a Progressive, looks like a Progressive, and talks like a Progressive, its a Progressive.

And, to help you past your reading fail, I didn't call you a Nazi. I called you a Progressive cultural Marxist. Which you are. As I demonstrated above.

Liberals like you want whatever is expedient, if it takes open borders to turn the US into a communist country then they favor that, if it takes closed borders to gain the support of the union members they favor that.

You call me a NAZI when it suits you and you now call me a marxist when it suits you.

It is the cultural marxists that want to destroy our culture and contaminate it with the floods of communists you want to bring in.

[PierzStyx]

[QUOTE=PierzStyx;6676747]

Lol, this goes back to my question of why RPF is so basic these days.

Yes we all know there are files, it would be stupid for someone in 2018 to think that there isn't a database for illegal aliens, especially those that commit crimes. When they get deported and come back, there is no concern for whatever is on the record since they work under the table anyways. No background checks, no references, nothing.

Exactly as it should be for everyone. So now I'm supposed to hate undocumented people for actually having more freedom and having what we should all have? How silly.

Though the only reason they don't is because you Cultural Marxists have made their labor illegal. Let them work legally and you can expand your precious police state to tax and regulate their labor as well.

[Swordsmyth]

See folks. Exactly what I mean. The Progressive cultural Marxists who want to regulate the borders hate you and they hate liberty and they are happy to beat, cage, steal from, and murder anyone who dares oppose them.
Survival is slightly more important than liberty is the point Philhelm is making, it is doubly true when the invaders want to destroy liberty.

[Swordsmyth]

When you're idea of a chainsaw to government is a large police state with the power to steal the lives, liberty, and property of millions of people, track the labor of everyone, and violate the basic human rights of millions of people in order to ensure your version of Cultural Marxism is triumphant as you wish to do, it just demonstrates you're either a liar lying about their motives, a moron too stupid to realize what they're calling for will entail, or completely deluded and think a growing police state makes you free.

You Progressives are really a sickening, cowardly bunch.
Please explain how you will achieve liberty by flooding the country with people who want to destroy it.

[PierzStyx]

Agree. It would be collectivist to make such an assumption.

LOL. But the author has no problem in turning right around and making the opposite generalization. It seems this would prove the author to be a “blockhead”.

You really should increase your reading comprehension Bryan4Serfdom.

See the article isn't about whether some immigrants do bad things. This is a given. Humans do bad things no matter where they're from. The question is what impact do immigrants have on crime?

And the evidence proves just the opposite of the claim that immigrants are dangerous. The areas with the highest immigrant populations have LESS crime. And tehr eis no correlation between immigration and crime.



As a matter of straight fact, that belief is false. Decades of research confirm that immigrants to the United States are significantly less likely than native-born citizens to commit serious crimes or be in prison. It makes no difference whether immigrants enter the country with or without legal documents: Scores of peer-reviewed studies establish a negative correlation between immigration and crime. Just last week, Governing magazine reported that, in the 20 US metro areas with the greatest presence of immigrants here illegally, average rates of violent crime and property crime are 8 percent to 10 percent lower than the national average. During the 1990s and 2000s, as the number of unauthorized immigrants in the United States tripled to nearly 12 million, crime rates nationwide plunged more than 40 percent.

Indeed, as the video demonstrates, undocumented immigrants actually lead to less crime because they break up the networks of native-born criminals. So not only do they not cause crime they lead to fewer crimes happening.

What does this all mean? Well, if someone does something that actively harms another person, hold them accountable. But punishing a whole group of people who actually benefit the nation by their presence and industry, or punishing the nation by trying to limit or eliminate these people? That is foolish. It makes everyone worse off, not better. You're actively hurting America by doing so.

[PierzStyx]

Please explain how you will achieve liberty by flooding the country with people who want to destroy it.

Allowing people to live their natural human rights, including freedom of movement and willing exchange of goods and services is liberty.


Now, explain to me how creating a large police state with the power to steal the lives, liberty, and property of millions of people, track the labor of everyone, and violate the basic human rights of millions of people in order to ensure your version of Cultural Marxism is triumphant is supposed to make anyone free?

Wait. You can't. Because it can't.

You want to enslave everyone and call it freedom. Typical Marxist. Might as well add "FREEDOM IS SLAVERY" to your tag and be done.

[phill4paul]

Allowing people to live their natural human rights, including freedom of movement and willing exchange of goods and services is liberty.


Now, explain to me how creating a large police state with the power to steal the lives, liberty, and property of millions of people, track the labor of everyone, and violate the basic human rights of millions of people in order to ensure your version of Cultural Marxism is triumphant is supposed to make anyone free?

Wait. You can't. Because it can't.

You want to enslave everyone and call it freedom. Typical Marxist. Might as well add "FREEDOM IS SLAVERY" to your tag and be done.

If an illegal ALIEN rapes my ole lady can I shoot him in the head?

[PierzStyx]

Survival is slightly more important than liberty is the point Philhelm is making, it is doubly true when the invaders want to destroy liberty.

Anyone whose understanding of English is so bad they can't understand the difference between invasion and immigration should go back to first grade. They certainly aren't educated enough to talk about either of those things.

But again, thank you for your honesty. You want to beat, cage, and murder anyone who you don't like and you're willing to beat, cage, and murder those who oppose your tyranny.

Typical Marxist. Gotta PURGE all those who don't fit the Marxist Idoelogy, isn't that right Comrade?

[Swordsmyth]

Allowing people to live their natural human rights, including freedom of movement and willing exchange of goods and services is liberty.
The people you want to bring here won't do that, the best we can do is to allow our people to do that in our territory.
Again, please explain how allowing hordes people who don't believe in liberty to come here will help us to achieve liberty.


Now, explain to me how creating a large police state with the power to steal the lives, liberty, and property of millions of people, track the labor of everyone, and violate the basic human rights of millions of people in order to ensure your version of Cultural Marxism is triumphant is supposed to make anyone free?

Wait. You can't. Because it can't.

You want to enslave everyone and call it freedom. Typical Marxist. Might as well add "FREEDOM IS SLAVERY" to your tag and be done.

That isn't what I want, you have to lie about what I want in order to pretend I am wrong.

[Swordsmyth]

Anyone whose understanding of English is so bad they can't understand the difference between invasion and immigration should go back to first grade. They certainly aren't educated enough to talk about either of those things.
When will you be reporting to first grade?
Overwhelming numbers of people entering out territory without permission is an invasion, many of them even publicly admit their goal is to seize our territory.


But again, thank you for your honesty. You want to beat, cage, and murder anyone who you don't like and you're willing to beat, cage, and murder those who oppose your tyranny.

Typical Marxist. Gotta PURGE all those who don't fit the Marxist Idoelogy, isn't that right Comrade?
More lies and projection from the crypto-communist.

[PierzStyx]

If an illegal ALIEN rapes my ole lady can I shoot him in the head?

Can you defend yourself from an attack by anyone? Certainly. That is your natural right.

It is not your natural right to beat, cage, or kill others for the mere fact that they come from somewhere else.


Also, I notice you quote the Declaration of Independence. I assume the parts you feel are being violated by the government. Curiously, you didn't mention this one:


He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither

George III was a tyrant for preventing the migration of foreigners to the states. It is no different with King Trump or any other person who seeks to do the same. The national government -whether in London or DC- seeking to obstruct the migration of foreigners or outright refusing to allow foreigners to migrate is a violation of not just the rights of the states but of the people generally and those doing so are tyrants.

That is if you really believe the message of the Declaration anyway.

[phill4paul]

Can you defend yourself from an attack by anyone? Certainly. That is your natural right.

It is not your natural right to beat, cage, or kill others for the mere fact that they come from somewhere else.


Also, I notice you quote the Declaration of Independence. I assume the parts you feel are being violated by the government. Curiously, you didn't mention this one:



George III was a tyrant for preventing the migration of foreigners to the states. It is no different with King Trump or any other person who seeks to do the same. The national government -whether in London or DC- seeking to obstruct the migration of foreigners or outright refusing to allow foreigners to migrate is a violation of not just the rights of the states but of the people generally and those doing so are tyrants.

That is if you really believe the message of the Declaration anyway.

You didn't answer my question. If an illegal ALIEN rapes my ole lady, and she points him out and says "that's the one," can I walk up to him and shoot him in the brain pan?

[PierzStyx]

The people you want to bring here won't do that, the best we can do is to allow our people to do that in our territory.
Again, please explain how allowing hordes people who don't believe in liberty to come here will help us to achieve liberty.

Well, I mean if you're so stupid you can't comprehend it, I'll quote myself:


Allowing people to live their natural human rights, including freedom of movement and willing exchange of goods and services is liberty.

That isn't what I want, you have to lie about what I want in order to pretend I am wrong.

That isn't what you want? Then explain how you intend to imprison 11 million people and punish 300 million more for willingly employing them and interacting with them? How do you plan to know when someone is hiring an undocumented person? How do you plan to determine who is and isn't undocumented? How do you plan to enforce your will on the people? And how do you plan to PAY for all of this? How do you plan to get the BILLIONS of dollars required to fund your goals?

Do you think you'll just hand out sugar cookies and everyone will just follow you?

As I said, you're either a liar, a moron, or delusional.

[Swordsmyth]

Can you defend yourself from an attack by anyone? Certainly. That is your natural right.

It is not your natural right to beat, cage, or kill others for the mere fact that they come from somewhere else.
It isn't about the mere fact that they come from somewhere else, they are invaders who violate our rules about who can enter our territory and many of them seek to do us harm.



Also, I notice you quote the Declaration of Independence. I assume the parts you feel are being violated by the government. Curiously, you didn't mention this one:



George III was a tyrant for preventing the migration of foreigners to the states. It is no different with King Trump or any other person who seeks to do the same. The national government -whether in London or DC- seeking to obstruct the migration of foreigners or outright refusing to allow foreigners to migrate is a violation of not just the rights of the states but of the people generally and those doing so are tyrants.

That is if you really believe the message of the Declaration anyway.
They didn't want an unelected someone far across the ocean telling them who they could allow to immigrate just as they didn't want that same someone deciding how much to tax them, their solution was to secede and decide those things for themselves, if you don't like the rules our elected representatives have set then you can try to join with others in your area and secede.

[PierzStyx]

When will you be reporting to first grade?
Overwhelming numbers of people entering out territory without permission is an invasion, many of them even publicly admit their goal is to seize our territory.


More lies and projection from the crypto-communist.

You don't own the land so they don't need your permission. Nor are they overwhelming. Nor is it an invasion. Invasions take place when foreign nations declare war on each other and send armed troops into another country.

As I said. That you don't know this suggests your grasp of English is as bad as any foreigner's.


And how is it a lie when the guy you're defending literally said "LIBERTY BE DAMNED" and then asserted his right to kill people and then you justified doing the same?

How is it a lie when your stated reasons are purely ideological- you claim immigrants think and live differently than you politically and culturally so that justifies you beating, caging, and killing them and anyone who would support them?

You are literally proclaiming your right to PURGE 11,000,000+ people from the country because they don't think or live like you.

Your accusation of communism is another giveaway. It is a typical Fascist accusation to level at any classical liberal, libertarian, or voluntaryist. Where you're so far gone anyone that isn't also a white nationalist Cultural Marxism -i.e. Fascist - is automatically a Communist then that just demonstrates how degraded and incapable of reason you've become. You're so absorbed into your Marxist thought that you want to purge everyone who isn't like you. So either they're the enemy immigrant or they're Communists, all of whom you feel justified in killing.

Stalin would be so proud of you Comrade Swordsmyth.

[Swordsmyth]

Well, I mean if you're so stupid you can't comprehend it, I'll quote myself:

Allowing people to live their natural human rights, including freedom of movement and willing exchange of goods and services is liberty.




Since you are so stupid I will repeat myself:
THE PEOPLE YOU WANT TO BRING HERE WILL NOT ALLOW PEOPLE TO LIVE THEIR NATURAL HUMAN RIGHTS, INCLUDING FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT AND THE WILLING EXCHANGE OF GOODS AND SERVICES.
HOW WILLING BRINGING THEM HERE HELP US ACHIEVE LIBERTY?


That isn't what you want? Then explain how you intend to imprison 11 million people and punish 300 million more for willingly employing them and interacting with them? How do you plan to know when someone is hiring an undocumented person? How do you plan to determine who is and isn't undocumented? How do you plan to enforce your will on the people? And how do you plan to PAY for all of this? How do you plan to get the BILLIONS of dollars required to fund your goals?

Do you think you'll just hand out sugar cookies and everyone will just follow you?

As I said, you're either a liar, a moron, or delusional.
Invasions require unusual measures but if we enforce our current immigration laws to deport as many as we can catch and stop giving welfare to the invaders most of them will self deport, after the crisis has been dealt with and we have properly secured our borders we can even reduce some of the laws and domestic enforcement.

[Swordsmyth]

You don't own the land so they don't need your permission.
False.


Nor are they overwhelming.
False.


Nor is it an invasion.
False.


Invasions take place when foreign nations declare war on each other and send armed troops into another country.
False by omission, that is only one type of invasion.


As I said. That you don't know this suggests your grasp of English is as bad as any foreigner's.
LOL



And how is it a lie when the guy you're defending literally said "LIBERTY BE DAMNED"
I already explained what he meant by his hyperbola.


and then asserted his right to kill people
False.


and then you justified doing the same?
The right to kill invaders is indisputable but you misrepresent the situation.


How is it a lie when your stated reasons are purely ideological-
They are purely practical, your position is purely ideological


you claim immigrants think and live differently than you politically and culturally so that justifies you beating, caging, and killing them and anyone who would support them?
I claim (correctly) that they want to come here and destroy what liberty we have, that justifies repulsing their invasion.


You are literally proclaiming your right to PURGE 11,000,000+ people from the country because they don't think or live like you.
Because they are invaders who have contributed and will contribute to stealing my liberty.


Your accusation of communism is another giveaway. It is a typical Fascist accusation to level at any classical liberal, libertarian, or voluntaryist. Where you're so far gone anyone that isn't also a white nationalist Cultural Marxism -i.e. Fascist - is automatically a Communist then that just demonstrates how degraded and incapable of reason you've become. You're so absorbed into your Marxist thought that you want to purge everyone who isn't like you. So either they're the enemy immigrant or they're Communists, all of whom you feel justified in killing.
Your track record exposes your hidden communist motives, you constantly defend the most extreme leftists while attacking anyone who is pro-liberty for the slightest excuse real or imagined while screaming "NAZI" at the drop of a hat, if you aren't a crypto-communist you are stark raving mad.


Stalin would be so proud of you Comrade Swordsmyth.
LOL

[Zippyjuan]

Commie is SOOO 1950's.

[Swordsmyth]

Commie is SOOO 1950's.

You guys are behind the times.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Commie is SOOO 1950's.


It looks to me like it's making a comeback.

[Zippyjuan]

It looks to me like it's making a comeback.

Swordsmyth is doing his best.

[Swordsmyth]

Swordsmyth is doing his best.
I'm only one man, stopping the rise of communism single handed is beyond me but I am proud to have helped expose it.

[phill4paul]

You didn't answer my question. If an illegal ALIEN rapes my ole lady, and she points him out and says "that's the one," can I walk up to him and shoot him in the brain pan?

PierzStyx.

Still waiting.

[Brian4Liberty]

You really should increase your reading comprehension Bryan4Serfdom.

See the article isn't about whether some immigrants do bad things. This is a given. Humans do bad things no matter where they're from. The question is what impact do immigrants have on crime?

And the evidence proves just the opposite of the claim that immigrants are dangerous. The areas with the highest immigrant populations have LESS crime. And tehr eis no correlation between immigration and crime.




Indeed, as the video demonstrates, undocumented immigrants actually lead to less crime because they break up the networks of native-born criminals. So not only do they not cause crime they lead to fewer crimes happening.

What does this all mean? Well, if someone does something that actively harms another person, hold them accountable. But punishing a whole group of people who actually benefit the nation by their presence and industry, or punishing the nation by trying to limit or eliminate these people? That is foolish. It makes everyone worse off, not better. You're actively hurting America by doing so.

There you go again, making collectivist statements about immigrants. Lies, damn lies and selective statistics.

[Zippyjuan]

There you go again, making collectivist statements about immigrants. Lies, damn lies and selective statistics.

Good thing the anti- immigrant crowd would NEVER do anything like that! :aok:

[Brian4Liberty]

Good thing the anti- immigrant crowd would NEVER do anything like that! :aok:

There you go again, making another collectivist statement about a group of people... :shrugging:

[Origanalist]

You didn't answer my question. If an illegal ALIEN rapes my ole lady, and she points him out and says "that's the one," can I walk up to him and shoot him in the brain pan?

What difference would it make if he was legal or illegal?

[H_H]

What difference would it make if he was legal or illegal?
One is part of a more privileged class. Higher on the victim totem pole. More untouchable. You can’t even say mean things at them without being doxxed and liferuined. (a situation and practice I guarantee Brother Styx supports. Punish dem Nazis!). So *Obviously* you can’t physically injure them. To answer Phil’s question.