SPECULATION: Trump becoming less controllable?

[AuH20]

Are the firewalls breaking down? The Japanese delegation thinks so...

1034475654673137669

[TheTexan]

Trump doesn't let anyone control him. He lets the deep state think that they do, but they never did and they never will.

He's draining the swamp and they're not even noticing that he's doing it :cool:

[shakey1]

Definitely has entertainment value.:collision:

[Anti Globalist]

Kind of hard to control somebody whose been an alpha male from the time he was born.

[Aratus]

I think he has been getting angrier & angrier, running around cussing 'em all out.
He feels 100% betrayed by people he thought were 100% loyal, earlier, when he
acted like a blithering jack@ss he did not expect to be jumped ad infinitum for it.

[TheCount]

What will be the new excuse for everything that Trump does?

[AuH20]

Kind of hard to control somebody whose been an alpha male from the time he was born.

The main problem is that he's not a micromanager. They can hold him off and he's only going to be able to get the real outcome through backchannels. Some of them routinely ignore or delay directives from him. Earlier in the year, Kelly was bragging that he had saved the country great problems by sidetracking Trump.

[Cleaner44]

What will be the new excuse for everything that Trump does?

Why does one need an excuse for winning?

[devil21]

He's still doing everything the bankers direct him to do to make massive changes to the system (some good ones, yes, but still) just like FDR did. Why can't people grasp that the President is a PR man and doesn't directly control anything? It's really not a hard concept to grasp.

[TheCount]

Why does one need an excuse for winning?

If he were winning, he would not need any excuses.

[Cleaner44]

If he were winning, he would not need any excuses.

I’m going to move to strike that answer as non-responsive.

[Aratus]

Jeff Sessions is soon to quit, be fired, retire or just walk out the door or something like that.

[Marenco]

He's still doing everything the bankers direct him to do to make massive changes to the system (some good ones, yes, but still) just like FDR did. Why can't people grasp that the President is a PR man and doesn't directly control anything? It's really not a hard concept to grasp.

This time is different!










/sarc

[Jamesiv1]

The MAGA controls all things great and small.

[Aratus]

I think he has been getting angrier & angrier, running around cussing 'em all out.
He feels 100% betrayed by people he thought were 100% loyal, earlier, when he
acted like a blithering jack@ss he did not expect to be jumped ad infinitum for it.

Mark TWAIN is a brilliant writer....

[UWDude]

Definitely has entertainment value.:collision:

We already have food, shelter and safety.

It is an entertainment driven world now.
Internet is almost a right.

Get it?

[r3volution 3.0]

What will be the new excuse for everything that Trump does?

...deep state coup

...holding him hostage.

...arrests imminent


I think he has been getting angrier & angrier, running around cussing 'em all out.
He feels 100% betrayed by people he thought were 100% loyal, earlier, when he
acted like a blithering jack@ss he did not expect to be jumped ad infinitum for it.

What's most interesting is why he thought people who obviously loathed him were 100% loyal.

...it's clear enough why he needs to think that.

[UWDude]

I think he has been getting angrier & angrier, running around cussing 'em all out.
He feels 100% betrayed by people he thought were 100% loyal, earlier, when he
acted like a blithering jack@ss he did not expect to be jumped ad infinitum for it.

Like Warren Harding.
Who the Dems almost slandered as the worst president ever...

According to Howard dean... ..Who, IIRC, I gave $200 to.

Harding is so safe now.
Trump will be worstest Nazi forever.

(P.S. Harding was unaware of most of the scandals happening under his presidency, and was TWICE reported to be caught LITERALLY strangling one of his cabinet members.)

P.P.S
As Liu Bang, peasant and founder of the Han dynasty lamented:
"I execute ten -thousand corrupt men, and the next day, ten thousand corrupt men take their place"

Trump knows he is in a cave with the goblins.

[nikcers]

...deep state coup

...holding him hostage.

...arrests imminent



What's most interesting is why he thought people who obviously loathed him were 100% loyal.

...it's clear enough why he needs to think that.

If the democrats win back the house they will install Mike Pence as president, you don't want that do you??

[timosman]

I think he has been getting angrier & angrier, running around cussing 'em all out.
He feels 100% betrayed by people he thought were 100% loyal, earlier, when he
acted like a blithering jack@ss he did not expect to be jumped ad infinitum for it.

Is this an impeachable offense? :confused:

[Swordsmyth]

If the democrats win back the house they will install Mike Pence as president, you don't want that do you??

They will do their best to install Pelosi as president and I suspect R3v might want that.

[r3volution 3.0]

If the democrats win back the house they will install Mike Pence as president, you don't want that do you??

In all seriousness, they probably won't impeach him if they win the House (if they do, they're idiots - ask the 90s GOP).

It's more about the psychological effect of not winning on Donald "you're gonna get tired of winning" Trump for 2020.


They will do their best to install Pelosi as president and I suspect R3v might want that.

The parties are both, as presently constituted, useless.

The Dems are likely to remain useless for the foreseeable future.

For the GOP, there is the slightest glimmer of hope that if Trump's big government nationalism implodes, there might be an opening for libertarians.

Hence, any rational libertarian should be rooting for Trump's ouster, which means electoral losses which discredit him and his partisans.

It would be best if the GOP lost big this November in Congress, and then Trump lost in 2020, but the GOP hung on to at least one house.

Then, the GOP, in opposition, might once again pretend to favor small government.

Otherwise, if there's no potential for a change within the GOP, it makes no difference at all who wins what.

[timosman]

Hence, any rational libertarian should be rooting for Trump's ouster, which means electoral losses which discredit him and his partisans.

:rolleyes:

[r3volution 3.0]

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[timosman]

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

What's the upside for libertarians? :confused:

[r3volution 3.0]

What's the upside for libertarians? :confused:

...


if Trump's big government nationalism implodes, there might be an opening for libertarians.

...the GOP, in opposition, might once again pretend to favor small government.

You may have noticed the sudden death of the libertarian movement around the time the TV character became popular.

[UWDude]

...



You may have noticed the sudden death of the libertarian movement around the time the TV character became popular.

Libertarian movement died Sep 11, 2001.
Part of me thinks that was the whole reason it happened.
I was balls deep in Libertarian movement that day.
We were gaining popularity greatly. We were winning 5% for states.
I was front lines, real lines, not internet lines. Face to face.
Then Overton window shifted. Drug war? Who cares!? Mooslims! 9/11.
Yay, now instead of drug war, America gets real war!

[Swordsmyth]

...



You may have noticed the sudden death of the libertarian movement around the time the TV character became popular.

No such event happened, Trump is our best current chance for moving the conversation our direction.

[r3volution 3.0]

Libertarian movement died Sep 11, 2001.
Part of me thinks that was the whole reason it happened.
I was balls deep in Libertarian movement that day.
We were gaining popularity greatly. We were winning 5% for states.
I was front lines, real lines, not internet lines. Face to face.
Then Overton window shifted. Drug war? Who cares!? Mooslims! 9/11.
Yay, now instead of drug war, America gets real war!

I don't remember it that way, myself, but an interesting perspective.

As I see it, the libertarian movement was more or less wandering in the wilderness from Rothbard till 2008.

2008-2012 was the golden age.

By 2014, a combination of inane in-fighting and effective neocon propaganda re the reasons for the rise of ISIS had popped the bubble.

Then, summer 2015, FOX and other GOP regime media pushed the 'Mexicans r scary" narrative, got Trump elected, and the rest is history.

[timosman]

...



You may have noticed the sudden death of the libertarian movement around the time the TV character became popular.

Went back to minding their own business? :D

[r3volution 3.0]

No such event happened, Trump is our best current chance for moving the conversation our direction.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/VcWnY3R6YWVtC/giphy-downsized-medium.gif

[r3volution 3.0]

Went back to minding their own business? :D

The lesson from 2008-2012+ was that most of Ron's adherents weren't really libertarians, just contrarians.

Old guy, principled, opposing the established order of things in some way (don't understand how exactly), great!

--> Orange guy, loud, opposing the established order of things in some way (don't understand how exactly), great!

...they never really understood what it was about: or what some of us (incl. Ron) thought it was about...

They could just as easily vote Democrat next time, if they nominate a sufficiently "anti-establishment" character.

And they probably will.

[Swordsmyth]

The lesson from 2008-2012+ was that most of Ron's adherents weren't really libertarians, just contrarians.

Old guy, principled, opposing the established order of things in some way (don't understand how exactly), great!

--> Orange guy, loud, opposing the established order of things in some way (don't understand how exactly), great!

...they never really understood what it was about: or what some of us (incl. Ron) thought it was about...

They could just as easily vote Democrat next time, if they nominate a sufficiently "anti-establishment" character.

And they probably will.

So our candidates need to be distinctly anti-establishment, right now that means supporting Trump against the deepstate.

[nikcers]

So our candidates need to be distinctly anti-establishment, right now that means supporting Trump against the deepstate.

We have to ignore free market principles in order to save the free market system.

[timosman]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/VcWnY3R6YWVtC/giphy-downsized-medium.gif

What is preventing you from being happy this time?:cool:

[r3volution 3.0]

So our candidates need to be distinctly anti-establishment, right now that means supporting Trump against the deepstate.

https://peopledotcom.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/gene-wilder-435.jpg?w=435

The lesson is that appearing "anti-establishment" is a winning strategy; not that people who appear "anti-establishment" should be supported...

[Swordsmyth]

We have to ignore free market principles in order to save the free market system.
We have to take what we can get, I didn't say to vote for all the spending etc.

[r3volution 3.0]

What is preventing you from being happy this time?:cool:

The replacement of the old emojis.

:cool::cool:

[Swordsmyth]

https://peopledotcom.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/gene-wilder-435.jpg?w=435

The lesson is that appearing "anti-establishment" is a winning strategy; not that people who appear "anti-establishment" should be supported...
If you want to appear anti-establishment right now you need to support Trump against the deepstate, that also happens to be the right thing to do and the thing that will let us move things our direction as much as possible.

[r3volution 3.0]

If you want to appear anti-establishment right now you need to support Trump against the deepstate, that also happens to be the right thing to do and the thing that will let us move things our direction as much as possible.

Somehow you're still not quite appreciating my point...

[Swordsmyth]

Somehow you're still not quite appreciating my point...
Do you want our candidates to win?




The lesson is that appearing "anti-establishment" is a winning strategy
I agree with ^^^THIS^^^ and I want our candidates to win.

[r3volution 3.0]

Do you want our candidates to win?

I agree with ^^^THIS^^^ and I want our candidates to win.

What candidates are those?

[Swordsmyth]

What candidates are those?
Rand, Massie etc. + any new ones we can find, there are threads dedicated to a few on this site.

[r3volution 3.0]

Rand, Massie etc. + any new ones we can find, there are threads dedicated to a few on this site.

Rand isn't up, and Massie and Amash will both easily win their elections.

...without invoking the deepstate™ talisman (let alone blowing Trump).

Trump is the enemy, more than Pelosi, for the reason that Trump poaches would-be libertarian voters in a way Pelosi never could.

Pelosi is only Pontius Pilate; Trump is Judas.

[nikcers]

We have to take what we can get, I didn't say to vote for all the spending etc.

Right- its easier to sell libertarian political philosophy to people who don't have any political philosophy. You gotta build houses where people have money and want to buy them.

[Swordsmyth]

Rand isn't up,
But Trump will still be in office next time Rand is up, if there is any chance at all of Rand running against Trump in 2020 he will need to have supported him against the deepstate.



and Massie and Amash will both easily win their elections.

...without invoking the deepstate™
Maybe, maybe not.
In any case there are others like Sanborn who would do well to support Trump against the deepstate and there may be others yet in future years while Trump is still in office.


Trump is the enemy, more than Pelosi, for the reason that Trump poaches would-be libertarian voters in a way Pelosi never could.
Except Pelosi would destroy liberty in ways Trump never could, also Trump may be an obstacle to a 2020 POTUS run but he is a rocket our candidates can hitch their wagons to in every other race across the country, we can always go for POTUS in 2024.

[r3volution 3.0]

But Trump will still be in office next time Rand is up, if there is any chance at all of Rand running against Trump in 2020 he will need to have supported him against the deepstate.

I crossed out the "against the deepstate" part.

As you may or may not have noticed, I'm not an illiterate hobo, and so using this propaganda in speaking with me is pretty futile.

Now, that aside, the idea that Rand needs to suck at Trump's tit in order to primary him is bizarre: quite the opposite.

If Rand continues to pander to Trumpkins, he will be in an impossible position in any future challenge.

...."Well, Rand, ...you're terrific by the way, great, ...isn't he a great Senator folks? .... he said he loved my policy on...."

Right? ...right


In any case there are others like Sanborn who would do well to support Trump against the deepstate and there may be others yet in future years while Trump is still in office.

Not familiar with that person...

Is he one of the libertarian politicians that Trump threatened to oust during his 2016 campaign because they didn't support him?


Except Pelosi would destroy liberty in ways Trump never could

Take off both their wigs, they're the same person.


also Trump may be an obstacle to a 2020 POTUS run but he is a rocket our candidates can hitch their wagons to in every other race across the country, we can always go for POTUS in 2024.

https://i.imgflip.com/2h1yhb.jpg

[Aratus]

No such event happened, Trump is our best current chance for moving the conversation our direction.

Trump is authoritarian at his core, not libertarian.
He actually is not a good spokesman at all. Unlike
Ron Paul, who can be very tolerant and patient.

[Aratus]

But Trump will still be in office next time Rand is up, if there is any chance at all of Rand running against Trump in 2020 he will need to have supported him against the deepstate.



Maybe, maybe not.

.

2016 + 6 = 2022

If Trump is not re-elected,
He won't be POTUS as Rand
runs, it's Mitch who runs in
2020 for the KY Senate seat.

[Aratus]

Pence or Rubio or Cruz or Ryan may run in 2020 for POTUS. Too.
If Trump retires from politics or is impeached and convicted, (without
a POTUS pardon) he simply will not be the guy taking Rand on in any of
the debates. Rand backed Mitt in the fall of 2016 & he has been DJT's
hod carrier, only Pence has been more loyal to the sitting POTUS.

[Aratus]

Rand has been paying his dues in terms of GOP loyalty and backing a sitting president up.

[Aratus]

Swordsmyth, there is the way things look to each faction inside the GOP
and there is how this all looks to Trump himself. He may think someone
is being very disloyal, they may be struggling with things for good or ill.
Jeff Sessions has not undercut his boss. His problem is the opposite, he's
looking like a Dixiecrat doormat and not a civil libertarian. He is like the
Attorney General Woodrow Wilson had, who made free speech difficult. You
know I can make unflattering remarks about Jeff Sessions, but I must point
out that GOP candidates first need to sway Republicans before they meet
up with the public at large and explain themselves in a fall campaign. Until
the voters vote, you cannot have the Democrats loosing or winning an election.
It's Mitch McConnell who practically invented the Kentucky GOP out of thin air
in the 1970s who gets hit with a Jovian thunderbolt because he's too close to
DJT or not close enough. Folks did see Rand debate the Donald, they know that
Rand is a man with his own ideas. We all have accepted the idea he is like his dad.

[AuH20]

The proof is in the pudding. A 22 pct drop in 8 years. Radicalization is occurring as Trump exposes the true nature of the federal government, during these hilarious escapades. The filthy sausage making operation in the swamp has become front page news.

There will never be a political revolution from the far right because politics are far too rigged and controlled by media sources. But an army is slowly being built. The more radicalized people, the better. The overton window is being dragged in our direction. The FBI no longer holds an legal authority since it it is hopelessly corrupt.

You will need a strong, radicalized faction to stand against what's coming.

http://www.latimes.com/resizer/_tpEAPrIVh-f65qJL2I9HL46qx0=/1400x0/www.trbimg.com/img-5b576b9b/turbine/la-1532455831-hbznby27yp-snap-image

[AuH20]

If you want to appear anti-establishment right now you need to support Trump against the deepstate, that also happens to be the right thing to do and the thing that will let us move things our direction as much as possible.

Don't interrupt the guy grappling with the man with his boot on our neck. Trump isn't a freedom fighter, but he's in their way by mere chance. And we should help prolong this confrontation as long as possible. The entire league of shadow killers and crony capitalists want Trump gone for merely altering the course of the ship. That's apparently his great sin.

[TheCount]

The proof is in the pudding. A 22 pct drop in 8 years. Radicalization is occurring as Trump exposes the true nature of the federal government, during these hilarious escapades.

If you asked the same people about their opinion on DHS (or, God help you, DOD) you'd find that their numbers are higher than ever. Remember when the post-9/11 DHS was considered by conservatives to be a bad rather than good thing? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

It isn't about the "true nature of the federal government" or government at all if the message being pushed is that "we" need one part of government to save us from the other part of government. It's still government. Nothing has changed.

[TheCount]

Don't interrupt the guy grappling with the man with his boot on our neck.

There are two boots on our neck, and they're arguing about who gets to step down. Neither are your friend.

[timosman]

There are two boots on our neck, and they're arguing about who gets to step down. Neither are your friend.

You sound depressed. :D

[nikcers]

You sound depressed. :D

Ya cheer up little guy, no use worrying about causes you have no affect on. You guys thought we were going to lock up the corrupt politicians? LOL

https://thefederalistpapers.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/imageedit_4850_9701377216.jpg

[Ender]

If you asked the same people about their opinion on DHS (or, God help you, DOD) you'd find that their numbers are higher than ever. Remember when the post-9/11 DHS was considered by conservatives to be a bad rather than good thing? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

It isn't about the "true nature of the federal government" or government at all if the message being pushed is that "we" need one part of government to save us from the other part of government. It's still government. Nothing has changed.

Pretty much my POV.

I think all the screaming about "sides" is just to keep everyone in their "reality fear" show so they completely miss what the "reality" really is.

[Swordsmyth]

I crossed out the "against the deepstate" part.

As you may or may not have noticed, I'm not an illiterate hobo, and so using this propaganda in speaking with me is pretty futile.

If you choose to deny part of reality then it is pointless to continue to attempt to discuss it with you, therefore I will just say our candidates need to support him where he is right.



Now, that aside, the idea that Rand needs to suck at Trump's tit in order to primary him is bizarre: quite the opposite.

If Rand continues to pander to Trumpkins, he will be in an impossible position in any future challenge.

...."Well, Rand, ...you're terrific by the way, great, ...isn't he a great Senator folks? .... he said he loved my policy on...."

Right? ...right
Trump would face an equal problem in the other direction, meanwhile Rand could point out all the things Trump is wrong about without the MAGA crowd refusing to even listen because he isn't labeled a "deepstate stooge".




Not familiar with that person...

Is he one of the libertarian politicians that Trump threatened to oust during his 2016 campaign because they didn't support him?
No he is a state legislator running for a US House seat, wouldn't it be better if our candidates didn't get run out of office by Trump's supporters by making sure to support him when he is right in addition to opposing him when he is wrong?




Take off both their wigs, they're the same person.
:rolleyes:

[Swordsmyth]

Trump is authoritarian at his core, not libertarian.
He actually is not a good spokesman at all. Unlike
Ron Paul, who can be very tolerant and patient.

Trump is more liberty oriented than most politicians and he has a large and loyal fanbase that will listen to our ideas if we avoid looking like his enemies.

[Aratus]

Rand, Massie etc. + any new ones we can find, there are threads dedicated to a few on this site.

Thomas Massie is one of us. He got motivated to seek office because he is posting here.
When Mitch McConnell retires or has poll numbers like the ones he quoted to Jim Bunning
in 2010, Thomas Massie could end up with his Senate seat. The Internet Gods liked him!

[Aratus]

Trump is more liberty oriented than most politicians and he has a large and loyal fanbase that will listen to our ideas if we avoid looking like his enemies.

I do admit that Rand Paul had a short and effective conversation on that golf course
and that DJT's brighter supporters know that. Our problem is that his stupider fans
can get VERY violent, and lack any degree of patience. I hate it when someone is like
an old time Stalinist or Nazi when they demand a loyalty oath vote on Party lines. I did
not join here to be a doormat, a coward or a fool. I know DJT is his own personality cult.

[enhanced_deficit]

Kind of hard to control somebody whose been an alpha male from the time he was born.


On a related note, left wing lib dem Billy was also used to be called 'alpha' and he was controlled/handled via blue dress scandal among other things when he got dangerously close to creating a state for Palestinian race people.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Clinton_Trump_2000_03.jpg



And to be fair, even MAGA used to be left wing lib back then.

[timosman]

On a related note, left wing lib dem Billy was also used to be called 'alpha' and he was controlled/handled via blue dress scandal among other ther things when he got too close to creating a state for Palestinian race people. And to be fair, even MAGA used to be left wing lib back then.

Clinton's seemed unable to do wrong. :cool:

[timosman]

I do admit that Rand Paul had a short and effective conversation on that golf course
and that DJT's brighter supporters know that. Our problem is that his stupider fans
can get VERY violent, and lack any degree of patience. I hate it when someone is like
an old time Stalinist or Nazi when they demand a loyalty oath vote on Party lines. I did
not join here to be a doormat, a coward or a fool. I know DJT is his own personality cult.

Don't be jealous. :cool:

[r3volution 3.0]

If you choose to deny part of reality then it is pointless to continue to attempt to discuss it with you, therefore I will just say our candidates need to support him where he is right.



Trump would face an equal problem in the other direction, meanwhile Rand could point out all the things Trump is wrong about without the MAGA crowd refusing to even listen because he isn't labeled a "deepstate stooge".




No he is a state legislator running for a US House seat, wouldn't it be better if our candidates didn't get run out of office by Trump's supporters by making sure to support him when he is right in addition to opposing him when he is wrong?




:rolleyes:

Hilarious

[r3volution 3.0]

If you choose to deny part of reality then it is pointless to continue to attempt to discuss it with you, therefore I will just say our candidates need to support him where he is right.

....I'm pleased.

[timosman]

....I'm pleased.

Do you think anybody cares?:D

[r3volution 3.0]

Do you think anybody cares?:D

:D:D

Do I care?

[timosman]

:D:D

Do I care?

Have you tried seeking professional help? :cool:

[r3volution 3.0]

Have you tried seeking professional help? :cool:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51t1OsPSdBc

[Aratus]

Do you think anybody cares?:D


:D:D

Do I care?


CENSORED CENSORED :cool:

I care...

[Aratus]

Thomas Massie is one of us. He got motivated to seek office because he is posting here.
When Mitch McConnell retires or has poll numbers like the ones he quoted to Jim Bunning
in 2010, Thomas Massie could end up with his Senate seat. The Internet Gods liked him!

RAND PAUL for PRESIDENT in 2020!!!

[r3volution 3.0]

I care...

It's best that you don't.

[Aratus]

It's best that you don't.

true...dat

sadly enuff

[r3volution 3.0]

true...dat

sadly enuff

I'm afraid that my interlocutors will fall over.

...this could be pretty tight, but then again we require people.