Poll - 70 percent of US supports "Medicare for All" and "Free College"

[Anti Federalist]

Seventy percent of Americans support 'Medicare for all' in new poll

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/403248-poll-seventy-percent-of-americans-support-medicare-for-all

By Megan Keller - 08/23/18 11:16 AM EDT

A vast majority — 70 percent — of Americans in a new poll supports "Medicare for all," also known as a single-payer health-care system.

The Reuters–Ipsos survey found 85 percent of Democrats said they support the policy along with 52 percent of Republicans.

Medicare for all has been in the headlines after a study by the libertarian-leaning Mercatus Center at George Mason University found it would lead to $32.6 trillion increase in federal spending over a 10-year period.

The study’s author, Charles Blahous, wrote in The Wall Street Journal earlier this month that even doubling taxes would not cover the bill for a single-payer health-care system.

The policy’s proponents, however, point to a note in the study showing that health-care costs would also decrease by $2 trillion by 2031 if it became law.

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), who has introduced a Medicare for all bill, has said that the Mercatus study is “grossly misleading and biased.”

The new Reuters poll also showed that a majority of Americans supports free college tuition. Forty-one percent of Republicans said they supported the policy, pollsters found, compared with 79 percent of Democrats.

The move to abolish Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) was also opposed by a majority of respondents. Seventy percent of Republicans said they opposed abolishing the 15-year-old agency, while Democrats said they were evenly split on the issue, with roughly 44 percent in favor of abolishing it and 44 percent saying it should remain.

The Reuters poll consulted American adults throughout June and July this year. Reuters asked 2,989 respondents about Medicare for all, 5,339 about free college tuition, and 7,737 about abolishing ICE. The results have margins of error of 2 percentage points for the Medicare for all and free college tuition questions. The margin of error for the question about abolishing ICE is 1 percentage point.

[Brian4Liberty]

At this point, what are the odds of breaking the medical-insurance-government complex and returning to true free, competitive markets?

If making Medicare for all optional could be combined with opening up and deregulating for competition, would it be worth it? In other words, cash clinics, cash surgery and treatment centers would be not be hindered, but people would also have the option for the free Medicare?

Probably just a pipe dream. Government doesn’t like competition. They wouldn’t want people to have the option of paying for their own healthcare outside of the government system. Social justice and all that. Everyone must be miserable together.

[oyarde]

At this point, what are the odds of breaking the medical-insurance-government complex and returning to true free, competitive markets?

If making Medicare for all optional could be combined with opening up and deregulating for competition, would it be worth it? In other words, cash clinics, cash surgery and treatment centers would be not be hindered, but people would also have the option for the free Medicare?

Probably just a pipe dream. Government doesn’t like competition. They wouldn’t want people to have the option of paying for their own healthcare outside of the government system. Social justice and all that. Everyone must be miserable together.

Yes , equally shitty treatment for all peasants is where it is headed.

[tod evans]

Poll.........80% of Americans don't understand that free shit ain't free.

Fucking idiots.

[Madison320]

Poll.........80% of Americans don't understand that free $#@! ain't free.

$#@!ing idiots.

That's why people receiving stolen goods should not be allowed to vote.

[oyarde]

Poll.........80% of Americans don't understand that free shit ain't free.

Fucking idiots.

That seems to be the case . Not only is it not free , it also may not be something to be desired .

[oyarde]

That's why people receiving stolen goods should not be allowed to vote.

I have always thought that is where the flaw is .

[tod evans]

That's why people receiving stolen goods should not be allowed to vote.

This would of course include government "employees"...

[Madison320]

At this point, what are the odds of breaking the medical-insurance-government complex and returning to true free, competitive markets?

If making Medicare for all optional could be combined with opening up and deregulating for competition, would it be worth it? In other words, cash clinics, cash surgery and treatment centers would be not be hindered, but people would also have the option for the free Medicare?

Probably just a pipe dream. Government doesn’t like competition. They wouldn’t want people to have the option of paying for their own healthcare outside of the government system. Social justice and all that. Everyone must be miserable together.

The problem in your scenario is that the people electing to use free market health care still have to pay for the "free" stuff in the form of high taxes. Just like with govt education. You have to pay twice.

[Madison320]

This would of course include government "employees"...

I'd even include government contractors. And I'm one of those. And it wouldn't bother me a bit if I couldn't vote. I'd rather stay home election day and have Rand Paul get elected then vote and have Bernie Sanders get elected.

[shakey1]

free :bigpoo:

[Anti Federalist]

At this point, what are the odds of breaking the medical-insurance-government complex and returning to true free, competitive markets?


None.

The Rubicon has been crossed, more are on the government dole than being productive.

There are only three options going forward:

1 - Secession.

2 - Global War.

3 - Utter collapse, akin to the USSR or current day Venezuela.

The Bolsheviks were able to kick the collectivism can down the road in places like Scandinavia because of what was homogeneous and small population that was smart enough to realize when it stopped working. We do not have that, because diversity.

They were able to kick the can down the road in places like the USSR and North Korea and Cuba by brutal police state repression and subsidies. Our police state, while bad, is not nearly robust or homogeneous enough to do that.

They continue to kick the can down the road in China, due to a combination of a robust police state, a homogeneous population and being smart enough to "allow" the people to have bright shiny things.

[jllundqu]

None.

The Rubicon has been crossed, more are on the government dole than being productive.

There are only three options going forward:

1 - Secession.

2 - Global War.

3 - Utter collapse, akin to the USSR or current day Venezuela.

The Bolsheviks were able to kick the collectivism can down the road in places like Scandinavia because of what was homogeneous and small population that was smart enough to realize when it stopped working. We do not have that, because diversity.

They were able to kick the can down the road in places like the USSR and North Korea and Cuba by brutal police state repression and subsidies. Our police state, while bad, is not nearly robust or homogeneous enough to do that.

They continue to kick the can down the road in China, due to a combination of a robust police state, a homogeneous population and being smart enough to "allow" the people to have bright shiny things.

Something is going to give in one or more of those options you list... We've been on thin ice for a long time. Economy is a house of cards, we couldn't be more bifurcated as a country, debt is insane on all levels, state and local pension crises, unfunded liabilities... at some point... something will give and when it does, I hope your pantry is stocked and you have some good friends around.

[Anti Federalist]

Something is going to give in one or more of those options you list... We've been on thin ice for a long time. Economy is a house of cards, we couldn't be more bifurcated as a country, debt is insane on all levels, state and local pension crises, unfunded liabilities... at some point... something will give and when it does, I hope your pantry is stocked and you have some good friends around.

Yup...there is no telling how long this particular can can get kicked down the road, but at some point it's going to get kicked onto a land mine.

[Madison320]

None.

The Rubicon has been crossed, more are on the government dole than being productive.

There are only three options going forward:

1 - Secession.

2 - Global War.

3 - Utter collapse, akin to the USSR or current day Venezuela.

The Bolsheviks were able to kick the collectivism can down the road in places like Scandinavia because of what was homogeneous and small population that was smart enough to realize when it stopped working. We do not have that, because diversity.

They were able to kick the can down the road in places like the USSR and North Korea and Cuba by brutal police state repression and subsidies. Our police state, while bad, is not nearly robust or homogeneous enough to do that.

They continue to kick the can down the road in China, due to a combination of a robust police state, a homogeneous population and being smart enough to "allow" the people to have bright shiny things.

I totally agree that nothing is going to happen until there's a crisis. My hope is that we do the right thing when it does happen. And for the record I think the "crisis" is going to be a collapse of the dollar.


I think this expression nails it: "Change happens when the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of change.”

[Brian4Liberty]

The problem in your scenario is that the people electing to use free market health care still have to pay for the "free" stuff in the form of high taxes. Just like with govt education. You have to pay twice.

Yep. Thought of that. Terribly unfortunate. Education is probably the model, as bad as that is. Want to escape the government plantation? Pay for private school, or home school, but the communists will still take their share.

But that is the case with the majority of taxation. Many will not directly benefit personally, even though they pay. More will benefit to a certain extent indirectly (roads), but no where near making up for the taxation. The crony establishment complex gains the most, and the slaves at the botttom will get more than they put in. Perhaps that will be the undoing of the entire scam. They want everyone to think they benefit, and if enough do benefit, it collapses. Tax and debt will not keep up when everyone is on the dole one way or another.

[Brian4Liberty]

None.

The Rubicon has been crossed, more are on the government dole than being productive.

There are only three options going forward:

1 - Secession.

2 - Global War.

3 - Utter collapse, akin to the USSR or current day Venezuela.

The Bolsheviks were able to kick the collectivism can down the road in places like Scandinavia because of what was homogeneous and small population that was smart enough to realize when it stopped working. We do not have that, because diversity.

They were able to kick the can down the road in places like the USSR and North Korea and Cuba by brutal police state repression and subsidies. Our police state, while bad, is not nearly robust or homogeneous enough to do that.

They continue to kick the can down the road in China, due to a combination of a robust police state, a homogeneous population and being smart enough to "allow" the people to have bright shiny things.

Most likely it will be some variation of 3. Inflation is their answer. They will accelerate inflation, make past commitments worth less, and get rid of future commitments.

The new, global, supposedly “block chain” currency will revalue everything.

[oyarde]

If I have to bet a silver dollar I will go with #3 that Brian and AF have selected .

[eleganz]

Socialism is going to keep getting bigger and bigger because of all of the darling news coverage they get for trying to 'save humanity'.

Unfortunately people don't have the opportunity to see the deadly side.

[Anti Federalist]

Unfortunately people don't have the opportunity to see the deadly side.

Even if they did, they wouldn't care.

Most people walk around in a self loathing, semi-suicidal fog as it is.

If a billion people got wiped out in a genocide, they'd shrug...say it was "good for the planet" or something.

Assuming it wasn't a billion people of a protected class...unless they got aborted that is.

[Danke]

I support this as long as undocumented immigrants are included.

[Anti Globalist]

Will the American people ever learn that free stuff isn't actually free?

[angelatc]

At this point, what are the odds of breaking the medical-insurance-government complex and returning to true free, competitive markets?

If making Medicare for all optional could be combined with opening up and deregulating for competition, would it be worth it? In other words, cash clinics, cash surgery and treatment centers would be not be hindered, but people would also have the option for the free Medicare?

Probably just a pipe dream. Government doesn’t like competition. They wouldn’t want people to have the option of paying for their own healthcare outside of the government system. Social justice and all that. Everyone must be miserable together.


It's not just that. IF the government is willing to pay $100 for an office visit, there's no incentive for non-networked doctors to lower the price.

We're just screwed.

[DamianTV]

Belief, Money, Violence

You have no control over another unless you give them something.

Belief - Take shit from other people and give it to those that demand it is "Free"
Money - This costs THAT much? I want someone ELSE to pay for it!
Violence - You took away my "free" shit? Doom On You! Revolution!

[Swordsmyth]

I do not believe this poll is accurate, but I do believe that there are far too many who support it and that AF is right (as usual), that is why we need to expel deep blue states before one of the other possibilities happens.

We need to start a movement to Expel certain states from the union by Constitutional Amendment (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?523522-We-need-to-start-a-movement-to-Expel-certain-states-from-the-union-by-Constitutional-Amendment)

[Madison320]

I do not believe this poll is accurate, but I do believe that there are far too many who support it and that AF is right (as usual), that is why we need to expel deep blue states before one of the other possibilities happens.

We need to start a movement to Expel certain states from the union by Constitutional Amendment (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?523522-We-need-to-start-a-movement-to-Expel-certain-states-from-the-union-by-Constitutional-Amendment)

But then you're still stuck with all the federal stuff and trillions in obligations. I think it makes more sense for a state or maybe a group of states to secede.

[Madison320]

If I have to bet a silver dollar I will go with #3 that Brian and AF have selected .

I'm hoping for a mild version of #3 (crisis) followed by #1 (secession).

[Madison320]

I have always thought that is where the flaw is .

Same here. I seem to be getting more positive responses to the idea of restricted voting than I used to.

[timosman]

They continue to kick the can down the road in China, due to a combination of a robust police state, a homogeneous population and being smart enough to "allow" the people to have bright shiny things.

Let's not forget about US companies fighting really hard for and making big investments in their market that is about to open up ... :tears:

[Swordsmyth]

But then you're still stuck with all the federal stuff and trillions in obligations. I think it makes more sense for a state or maybe a group of states to secede.
But if we throw out the deep blue states we will be able to get rid of the federal stuff and we will control the military so they can't play Lincoln and try to force us to stay.
The obligations we can either pay off or default on.

If you can get all of the other states to secede and leave the deep blue states holding the bag while also taking most or all of the military with us I would support that but I think expelling them would be easier to accomplish.

[Madison320]

But if we throw out the deep blue states we will be able to get rid of the federal stuff and we will control the military so they can't play Lincoln and try to force us to stay.
The obligations we can either pay off or default on.

If you can get all of the other states to secede and leave the deep blue states holding the bag while also taking most or all of the military with us I would support that but I think expelling them would be easier to accomplish.

It's an interesting idea. I've never heard that suggested before. I have a theory that there's a certain optimal geographical size for a country. Too big and the government can't be stopped from growing. Too small and it can't defend itself. If you look at certain countries like New Zealand for example, they've managed to reverse socialism and move back towards capitalism without a complete collapse. Same with the Scandinavian countries, although they have a ways to go.

It would require a default on the debt.