Voter Fear/Apathy

[Rabbit]

I noobishly :o brought these ideas up in another thread earlier this morning, but would much rather talk about them in this one, if that's ok..

When trying to speak with someone about why you support RP, you will inevitably be confronted with the "wasted vote" excuse and the "voter virgin" phenomenon.. I will paste some of what I wrote in the other thread to help explain these concepts..

When discussing RP with a "skeptic," it seems no matter how many walls you break down, no matter how many convincing points you make, the FEAR of "wasting a vote" or "evil will take over and engulf Earth" will inevitably be your final obstacle(s)..

Then you have those types like my BF who are proud of their "voter virginity," who claim any vote, even for someone as together as RP, is a vote in favor of an illegitimate system.. He (and his friends) are very stubborn on this point and I have not been able to budge them at all..


I think this is a serious issue, it needs to be addressed if we are to have a genuine chance at affecting a major change on gov't.. I'm guessing, but I would say that half the voter-age people out there are "voter virgins" or some type thereof (apathetic, etc.).. And of the people who vote, I bet half or more of them are emotional voters who are easily swayed by the Rhetoric of Fear.. Again, this is all pure conjecture, the conclusion of which is that RP (and Liberty in general) is facing an uphill battle against 75% of the voting population..

Anyone got ideas how we should confront this culture of fear and apathy?

[beermotor]

I am like your boyfriend. I have never voted. I'm 30. This will be my first time. I have never had a dog in the race, as it were. I don't feel bad "throwing my vote away" or taking part in an illegitimate system, because of the MESSAGE that it supports. Ron Paul is not the typical choice between a douche and a turd sandwich. Tell them that ignoring this problem will not make it go away, I know, I've tried. But right now, at this moment, we have the opportunity to make the right choice and generate positive effects (meaning more liberty, less oppression). It is madness to ignore it.

[cujothekitten]

When someone says my vote for Paul is a "wasted" vote I remind them that the congressmen that voted against the war wasted their vote but they were right and stuck to their principals and I'm doing the same thing.

As for apathy; if you know someone that is apathetic bring them to a meetup with you one night... Explain why they need to vote, inform them of what our current government has done.

[Oddball]

When discussing RP with a "skeptic," it seems no matter how many walls you break down, no matter how many convincing points you make, the FEAR of "wasting a vote" or "evil will take over and engulf Earth" will inevitably be your final obstacle(s)..Does one still not get evil when voting for the "evil of two lessers"?? The only way one's vote could possibly be "wasted" is to choose one form of evil over another.


Then you have those types like my BF who are proud of their "voter virginity," who claim any vote, even for someone as together as RP, is a vote in favor of an illegitimate system.. He (and his friends) are very stubborn on this point and I have not been able to budge them at all..
[/I]What's legit about the proactive use of force to get your way (which is the means to all the demopublicraticans' ends)??

If you had a weapon (your vote) and someone shot at you, would you not have the right to shoot back??

[PatriotOne]

I would tell them that "by not voting their conscious is a vote wasted".

[Roxi]

Ron Paul is not the typical choice between a douche and a turd sandwich.


Ron paul is the pudding snack in my lunchbox ;)

[Rabbit]

It's a learning experience trying to deal with all the different worldviews out there.. My job allows me to talk on a personal level with a large variety and number of people, every day.. When it gets down to the nitty-gritty, it seems most people out there dislike our current system and agree with the principles of Libertarianism.. Most everyone "sees a problem" that needs fixing.. While I get a little frustrated with people's stubborn ways, I try to comfort myself in the knowledge that I planted some seeds in their mind.. Maybe one day, eh? It's worth a shot..

Well, I'm out of here for awhile.. Thanks for your input and let's try to figure ways to reach these people.. There are more of them than any other type of voter..

[Tsoman]

The lesser evil is still evil!

[Exponent]

Someone on this forum suggested a counter statement that went something like, "Well how many times have you wasted a vote on someone that won?" A massive number of people have voted for "the lesser of two evils", and sure, they may have been on the winning side, but they still voted for a sucky candidate, and in that sense, their vote was wasted.

For some reason, people get this idea in their head that it's a game, and the idea is to try to determine and pick the side that will win. It's sort of a group support thing; we all like to think that the majority agrees with us. I'm reminded of the CNN poll after the third debate that gave you a check mark if you voted with the majority. The real point is to vote for who you like, not to guess who the majority will vote for.

We need a voting system (perhaps instant runoff voting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting) or approval voting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approval_voting)?) that, while it may have its own problems, does better at avoiding those silly psychological effects of group think and such. Sometimes I think I'd consider voting for candidates if making such a switch were one of their major platforms, even if they sucked on about everything else. Once they changed the system, then we could more easily vote better people in.

[njandrewg]

I like using numbers to fight that question:

i.e.
-NY in 2000 only 600K people voted in GOP primaries.
-Winner was bush with 350K people.
-Since then republican party has become much smaller, which brings the numbers down to 400K
-this election there are 5 front runners, this means the winner will be decided with a measly 100K votes
-Paul is the only candidate who is bringing support from 20% of the country that is Democrat, 10% of the country thats independent, and 50% of the country which hasn't voted in a while due to a lack of a good candidate

[MsDoodahs]

Then you have those types like my BF who are proud of their "voter virginity," who claim any vote, even for someone as together as RP, is a vote in favor of an illegitimate system.. He (and his friends) are very stubborn on this point and I have not been able to budge them at all..


I think this is a serious issue, it needs to be addressed if we are to have a genuine chance at affecting a major change on gov't.. I'm guessing, but I would say that half the voter-age people out there are "voter virgins" or some type thereof (apathetic, etc.).. And of the people who vote, I bet half or more of them are emotional voters who are easily swayed by the Rhetoric of Fear.. Again, this is all pure conjecture, the conclusion of which is that RP (and Liberty in general) is facing an uphill battle against 75% of the voting population..

Anyone got ideas how we should confront this culture of fear and apathy?

I understand completely the claim that ANY vote - even one for RP - represents acceptance/validation of a failed system as somehow workable. I believe they are right. That said, I'm willing to vote this time to try and get Dr. Paul elected because I see him as the last chance for a reduction in the size of gov't that doesn't get really ugly.

My husband is like your BF - he will not vote under any circumstances.

[foofighter20x]

Ask them if they think Sunni Iraqis were stupid for boycotting their national elections.

If they say yes, then point out that they are acting just the same.

[Oddball]

Something else to think about...

Jesse Ventura won in Minnesnowta, getting most of the votes from the roughly 15% over and above the normal turnout of the voters who normally wouldn't have voted at all.

A relatively small increase in the turnout produced a big, big change in the result.

[Mesogen]

Yes, I too am in that demographic.

I will be one of those that will increase the turnout over previous election years.

This is the first time I've ever had anyone worth voting for in the Presidential elections.

[Mesogen]

Oh, I just thought of another "concern troll" type voter, the "strategic voter" who says "Candidate A is most electable, so I'd better vote for him/her, so that Candidate B doesn't win, because that B sure is terrible."

I think that may be how John Kerry got the 2004 nomination. Either that or election fruad. :)