Pope Francis Declares Death Penalty Unacceptable in All Cases

[Anti Federalist]

He's right, for the wrong reasons.



Pope Francis Declares Death Penalty Unacceptable in All Cases

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/02/world/europe/pope-death-penalty.html

Pope Francis said that the Roman Catholic Church would work “with determination” for the abolition of capital punishment worldwide.CreditAlessandra Tarantino/Associated Press

By Elisabetta Povoledo and Laurie Goodstein
Aug. 2, 2018

ROME — Pope Francis has declared the death penalty wrong in all cases, a definitive change in church teaching that is likely to challenge Catholic politicians, judges and officials who have argued that their church was not entirely opposed to capital punishment.

Before, church doctrine accepted the death penalty if it was “the only practicable way” to defend lives, an opening that some Catholics took as license to support capital punishment in many cases.

But Francis said executions were unacceptable in all cases because they are “an attack” on human dignity, the Vatican announced on Thursday, adding that the church would work “with determination” to abolish capital punishment worldwide.

Francis made the change to the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church, the book of doctrine that is taught to Catholic children worldwide and studied by adults in a church with 1.2 billion members. Abolishing the death penalty has long been one of his top priorities, along with saving the environment and caring for immigrants and refugees.

A majority of the world’s countries — including nearly every nation in Europe and Latin America, regions that are home to large Catholic populations — have already banned the death penalty, according to Amnesty International.

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[Zippyjuan]

The Bible offers mixed messages on this.

"Thou shalt not kill". But on the other hand, disobedient kids should be stoned to death.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+21%3A18-21&version=ESV


Deuteronomy 21:18-21 English Standard Version (ESV)

A Rebellious Son

18 “If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, 19 then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, 20 and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ 21 Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+20%3A9&version=ESV


Leviticus 20:9 English Standard Version (ESV)

9 For anyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood is upon him.

The old testament was big on corporal punishment. The New Testament was more forgiving.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Jesus himself was a victim of the death penalty. But if he was not executed, he could not rise from the dead.

[Swordsmyth]

He is wrong, murder and a few other heinous crimes like rape need to be punished with death, if there is a problem with the system handing out the punishment with insufficient proof then that is what needs to change not the penalty.

[Anti Federalist]

He is wrong, murder and a few other heinous crimes like rape need to be punished with death, if there is a problem with the system handing out the punishment with insufficient proof then that is what needs to change not the penalty.

And that is the problem.

I don't trust the state to fix a pothole, let alone have the power of life and death over an individual in the "system".

And that is never going to change.

[Swordsmyth]

And that is the problem.

I don't trust the state to fix a pothole, let alone have the power of life and death over an individual in the "system".

And that is never going to change.

I don't trust mob violence and vigilante justice to do a better job and murder etc. demand the death penalty.

[Anti Federalist]

I don't trust mob violence and vigilante justice to do a better job and murder etc. demand the death penalty.

Nor do I.

There is no good answer when confronted with a murderous sociopath, other than an individual defending himself and killing the aggressor.

When it is likely the state will show up after the fact, and arrest or kill the poor schmuck who just neutralized a deadly threat.

I have seen so many innocent people wrongly convicted and sentenced to death, that there is no reform imaginable, that would convince me to support state sponsored executions.

Want to further reduce deadly crime?

Then here's a reform:

1 - Reign in the trigger happy cops.

2 - Arm more citizens.

[Swordsmyth]

Nor do I.

There is no good answer when confronted with a murderous sociopath, other than an individual defending himself and killing the aggressor.

When it is likely the state will show up after the fact, and arrest or kill the poor schmuck who just neutralized a deadly threat.

I have seen so many innocent people wrongly convicted and sentenced to death, that there is no reform imaginable, that would convince me to support state sponsored executions.

Want to further reduce deadly crime?

Then here's a reform:

1 - Reign in the trigger happy cops.

2 - Arm more citizens.

I understand and generally agree but I think that the standard of proof could be set high enough to execute those who are "caught red handed" while sparing anyone who has the slightest benefit of doubt.

I also think that the crimes punishable by the death penalty need to be expanded to things like violating a citizen's Constitutional Rights and Voter Fraud.

[Ender]

Nor do I.

There is no good answer when confronted with a murderous sociopath, other than an individual defending himself and killing the aggressor.

When it is likely the state will show up after the fact, and arrest or kill the poor schmuck who just neutralized a deadly threat.

I have seen so many innocent people wrongly convicted and sentenced to death, that there is no reform imaginable, that would convince me to support state sponsored executions.

Want to further reduce deadly crime?

Then here's a reform:

1 - Reign in the trigger happy cops.

2 - Arm more citizens.

Exactly- except I'd say:

1 - No more state cops.

2 - Arm all citizens.

[oyarde]

I really do not care what the king of catholics has to say about anything .

[Grandmastersexsay]

I understand and generally agree but I think that the standard of proof could be set high enough to execute those who are "caught red handed" while sparing anyone who has the slightest benefit of doubt.

I also think that the crimes punishable by the death penalty need to be expanded to things like violating a citizen's Constitutional Rights and Voter Fraud.

DAs are notorious for caring more about winning cases than the truth. Some people deserve death, but the state is too incompetent, powerful, and corrupt to be trusted with such power.

[Swordsmyth]

I really do not care what the king of catholics has to say about anything .

I only care about how all the catholics will react and affect the rest of us.

[oyarde]

I only care about how all the catholics will react and affect the rest of us.

We do not really have any problem with the socialist catholics around here , not that many of them.