Why Broken Links On Ronpaulforums.com????

[moglesb1]

ok so i am seeing all these broken links .. and people are getting upset and saying that the sites will know that the votes came from ronpaulforums.com ... i was unaware that a link sent info to the site it is going to ... i thought a link is basically something you click ... and it tells your browser to insert that text in the address bar ... and then you are taken to that site ... can anyone give me proof that a link sends info to another site??? it just seems very stupid ... most people don't want to copy and paste ... its just weird to me

[moglesb1]

anyone got an answer?

[Ncturnal]

It's because they don't want to reveal this forum as the source of the link to the destination website. There is a modification that will do this automatically. I'll contact the admins and see if they will implement it.

[moglesb1]

It's because they don't want to reveal this forum as the source of the link to the destination website. There is a modification that will do this automatically. I'll contact the admins and see if they will implement it.

first i don't think it can reveal it ... (need proof that a link does) and second ... who gives a damn ... this is retarded ... just post the link and leave it at that ... totally absurd

[Wilkero]

Yes. Because a little while back, online polls were being taken down as a result of so many votes coming from these forums. We know this because the people owning the websites hosting the polls posted/reported that they took them down as a result of so many votes coming from these forums. They also use that as a way to undermine the credibility of Ron Paul's support.

So, now we break links as a way to make sure they can't use that against us or Dr. Paul.

[moglesb1]

Yes. Because a little while back, online polls were being taken down as a result of so many votes coming from these forums. We know this because the people owning the websites hosting the polls posted/reported that they took them down as a result of so many votes coming from these forums. They also use that as a way to undermine our the credibility of Ron Paul's support.

So, now we break links as a way to make sure they can't use that against us or Dr. Paul.

if that is true ... why do we care so much ... they say this stuff regardless if we break the links or not ... it is just stupid

[Wilkero]

first i don't think it can reveal it ... (need proof that a link does) and second ... who gives a damn ... this is retarded ... just post the link and leave it at that ... totally absurd

You don't think websites can track where their traffic comes from? They can. Ask any of the webmasters on the forums.

[evadmurd]

first i don't think it can reveal it ... (need proof that a link does) and second ... who gives a damn ... this is retarded ... just post the link and leave it at that ... totally absurd

How many times do you have to say this? You are on at least two threads constantly berating an accepted practice in this forum. You want to put up a link, do it. A few will click it, but don't expect a lot. When in Rome...

Just shut up about it already!

[Ncturnal]

Chill. I have a solution for the problem. I just messaged the admins. Give them a chance to sort it out. :)

[moglesb1]

and if we vote for ron paul in the forum ... thats pretty much evidence that we support ron paul

[Wilkero]

if that is true ... why do we care so much ... they say this stuff regardless if we break the links or not ... it is just stupid

Because they use the fact that the forums directed the traffic to their site as a way to discredit us and Dr. Paul. If they can't tell where the traffic came from, they can't use it against him.

[Wilkero]

How many times do you have to say this? You are on at least two threads constantly berating an accepted practice in this forum. You want to put up a link, do it. A few will click it, but don't expect a lot. When in Rome...

QFT

[ronpaulblogsdotcom]

I have been a webmaster for years and yes it is true. If you have a website you can get a report telling you the "referrers". Often it is search engines and even the keywords people typed to find you.

People can get the reports in realtime. Also they could just search in google for a link with the "link:" tag. For example:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=link%3Awww.ronpaulforums.com&btnG=Google+Search

[Andrew-Austin]

Its not that hard to fix a broken link.. Takes about three seconds.

[moglesb1]

You don't think websites can track where their traffic comes from? They can. Ask any of the webmasters on the forums.

no i don't ... all a link does is insert the text into your browsers address bar and send you there ...

[Bryan]

www.theoregonpoll.com/2007/09/where-are-all-ron-paul-people-coming.html

[Andrew-Austin]

no i don't ... all a link does is insert the text into your browsers address bar and send you there ...

Regardless of whether you understand how this works... Websites can tell where their traffic is linking from. This is not some new concept.

[moglesb1]

I have been a webmaster for years and yes it is true. If you have a website you can get a report telling you the "referrers". Often it is search engines and even the keywords people typed to find you.

People can get the reports in realtime. Also they could just search in google for a link with the "link:" tag. For example:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=link%3Awww.ronpaulforums.com&btnG=Google+Search

thats a search engine ... what about a simple hyperlink on a forum site ... just doesn't seem that complex

[Wilkero]

I have been a webmaster for years and yes it is true. If you have a website you can get a report telling you the "referrers". Often it is search engines and even the keywords people typed to find you.

People can get the reports in realtime. Also they could just search in google for a link with the "link:" tag. For example:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=link%3Awww.ronpaulforums.com&btnG=Google+Search

Just in case anyone missed it.

[moglesb1]

www.theoregonpoll.com/2007/09/where-are-all-ron-paul-people-coming.html

fine ... i give up ... just seems like we shouldn't worry about where we come from ... IM PROUD TO COME FROM RON PAUL FORUMS ... AND IF WE VOTE FOR RON PAUL IN THE POLLS ..... DUH ... THAT IS SURE FIRE EVIDENCE THAT WE ARE SUPPORTERS ANYWAY ... SO WHO CARES??????????????????

[Wilkero]

I'm done with this thread. It's impossible to convince someone who's decided that they don't want to be convinced.

[ronpaulblogsdotcom]

I really dont know why you cant jsut take peoples word for it. The referrer code in a website is so strong that it is difficult not to give that information to another site. Have you ever seen a 2 second delay and then a redirect? That is mostly to break the refferer link and it takes at least two seconds and a redirect.

Maybe you can trust Google:

http://www.google.com/analytics/

Here is the first paragraph:

Google Analytics has been re-designed to help you learn even more about where your visitors come from and how they interact with your site.

[moglesb1]

I'm done with this thread. It's impossible to convince someone who's decided that they don't want to be convinced.

ok you make sense about the linking to other sites ... and them being able to track it ... fine ... but why should we care????

[moglesb1]

I really dont know why you cant jsut take peoples word for it. The referrer code in a website is so strong that it is difficult not to give that information to another site. Have you ever seen a 2 second delay and then a redirect? That is mostly to break the refferer link and it takes at least two seconds and a redirect.

Maybe you can trust Google:

http://www.google.com/analytics/

Here is the first paragraph:

Google Analytics has been re-designed to help you learn even more about where your visitors come from and how they interact with your site.

ok sorry i got upset .. just needed to see the info for myself ... i still think its useless to not let a site see where we are linking from ... when we are voting for the candidate who's site we are trying to hide

[nbhadja]

no i don't ... all a link does is insert the text into your browsers address bar and send you there ...

Do you still think the earth is flat??

[Andrew-Austin]

ok you make sense about the linking to other sites ... and them being able to track it ... fine ... but why should we care????

I dunno. Who is John Galt? Why is the sky blue?

[moglesb1]

Read Two Posts Above ... Why Are You All Being So Rude To Me

[Stealth]

you know how youtube tells you what sites the videos were checked out from, it's the same thing. these things called cookies are also generated to keep track of data about your site visits. it's not new. keep your links broken dude.

[austin356]

I Will make this simple and show you links do show in a non technical way.

Step 1) Go to this youtube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkPUeFtLrPM&feature=user

Step 2) Click on "links" under the youtube video.

Step 3) See what sites are linking to that video and what in what numbers.


The above linked to video has these been linked to:


802 clicks from http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/01761...
493 clicks from http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/
88 clicks from http://www.ronpaulforpresident2008.com/news/
23 clicks from http://lewrockwell.com/blog/
19 clicks from http://blog.washingtonpost.com/channel-08/2007/12/th...

[Harald]

ok so i am seeing all these broken links .. and people are getting upset and saying that the sites will know that the votes came from ronpaulforums.com ... i was unaware that a link sent info to the site it is going to ... i thought a link is basically something you click ... and it tells your browser to insert that text in the address bar ... and then you are taken to that site ... can anyone give me proof that a link sends info to another site??? it just seems very stupid ... most people don't want to copy and paste ... its just weird to me

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referer

When visiting a webpage, the referer or referring page is the URL of the previous webpage from which a link was followed.

More generally, a referer is the URL of a previous item which led to this request. The referer for an image, for example, is generally the HTML page on which it is to be displayed. The referer is part of the HTTP request sent by the browser program to the web server.

Many web sites log referers as part of their attempt to track their users. Most web log analysis software can process this information. As referer information can violate privacy, some browsers allow the user to disable the sending of referer information. Some proxy and firewall software will also filter out referer information, to avoid leaking the location of non-public websites. This can in turn cause problems: some servers block parts of their site to browsers that don't send the right referer information, in an attempt to prevent deep linking or unauthorised use of images (bandwidth theft). Some proxy software has the ability to give the top-level address of the target site as the referer, which usually prevents these problems while still not divulging the user's last visited site.

http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2616#section-14.36

14.36 Referer


The Referer[sic] request-header field allows the client to specify,
for the server's benefit, the address (URI) of the resource from
which the Request-URI was obtained (the "referrer", although the
header field is misspelled.) The Referer request-header allows a
server to generate lists of back-links to resources for interest,
logging, optimized caching, etc. It also allows obsolete or mistyped
links to be traced for maintenance. The Referer field MUST NOT be
sent if the Request-URI was obtained from a source that does not have
its own URI, such as input from the user keyboard.

Referer = "Referer" ":" ( absoluteURI | relativeURI )

Example:

Referer: http://www.w3.org/hypertext/DataSources/Overview.html

[moglesb1]

ok since everyone doesn't read all of the posts ... i agree now that people can track the linking source ... thanks to the guy who posted facts ... thats what i asked for ... i wasn't attacking anyone ... i just wanted proof ... i like proof .. i don't believe everything i hear .... thats what got us in this damn war in the first place ...


now that we agree on the fact that they can track the links ... why should we care ... they have hammered this campaign from the beginning ... and if we are voting for ron paul on the site ... wouldn't they get a hunch that we are ron paul supporters .. most likely who visits some of these sites??? i don't know ... just seems like we are hiding .. and i don't like it ... but who am i right? you apparently don't care who i am ... you all are being very rude

[GeorgiaRPFan]

ok so i am seeing all these broken links .. and people are getting upset and saying that the sites will know that the votes came from ronpaulforums.com ... i was unaware that a link sent info to the site it is going to ... i thought a link is basically something you click ... and it tells your browser to insert that text in the address bar ... and then you are taken to that site ... can anyone give me proof that a link sends info to another site??? it just seems very stupid ... most people don't want to copy and paste ... its just weird to me

I own a college textbook exchange site, and on my statistics in the back end, I get a report of links that are followed. So yes, most websites do track what links are being followed.

[frasu]

well it was a matter of sometimes being banned or bashed if you were coming from this forum... so please, calm down, nobody insulting nobody, but trust people here, there were, or are times where this measures came about to adapt... it is not that hard to copy and paste... it is NOT an inconvenience, we will have to go to vote for god sakes, nobody will do that for us.

[moglesb1]

I own a college textbook exchange site, and on my statistics in the back end, I get a report of links that are followed. So yes, most websites do track what links are being followed.

see above ...

[moglesb1]

well it was a matter of sometimes being banned or bashed if you were coming from this forum... so please, calm down, nobody insulting nobody, but trust people here, there were, or are times where this measures came about to adapt... it is not that hard to copy and paste... it is NOT an inconvenience, we will have to go to vote for god sakes, nobody will do that for us.

but i won't wear something to cover my face at the poll ....

[GeorgiaRPFan]

To the thread starter: this is why we break the links.


The next day, our email basket was flooded with Ron Paul support messages. And the computer logs showed the poll had been hit with traffic from Ron Paul chat sites. I learned other Internet polls that night had been hit in similar fashion. Congratulations. You folks are obviously well-organized and feel strongly about your candidate and I can't help but admire that.

But you also ruined the purpose of the poll. It was no longer an honest "show of hands" -- it suddenly was a platform for beating the Ron Paul drum. That certainly wasn't our intention and certainly doesn't serve our readers ... at least those who aren't already in the Ron Paul camp.

Some of you Ron Paul fans take issue with my decision to take the poll down. Fine. When a well-organized and committed "few" can throw the results of a system meant to reflect the sentiments of "the many," I get a little worried. I'd take it down again.



From h ttp://www.cnbc.com/id/21257762/

[austin356]

now that we agree on the fact that they can track the links ... why should we care ... they have hammered this campaign from the beginning ... and if we are voting for ron paul on the site ... wouldn't they get a hunch that we are ron paul supporters .. most likely who visits some of these sites??? i don't know ... just seems like we are hiding .. and i don't like it ... but who am i right? you apparently don't care who i am ... you all are being very rude


I would agree. That is in every instance except online polls.

There are really two types of online pollsters:

Those who want a certain outcome and will not be happy if someone changes it.
and
Those who really want a fair and honest assessment of their readers' choice and beliefs.


If we show them we are flooding the poll (yes we are doing that when we link to the poll from our page) then we upset both groups. They either get upset at us for manipulating the data to go against the result they wanted, or they get upset with us for flooding their fair assessment and thus not accurately portraying their readers' opinions.

The excuse will always be the same in both cases though if they know we are linking to their page. "A very small but dedicated group of Ron Paul supporters is able to flood every online poll and thus the poll is not accurate" And to be honest that is a true statement.

[moglesb1]

To the thread starter: this is why we break the links.



From h ttp://www.cnbc.com/id/21257762/

it doesn't seem like a bad thing though

[Andrew-Austin]

ok since everyone doesn't read all of the posts ... i agree now that people can track the linking source ... thanks to the guy who posted facts ... thats what i asked for ... i wasn't attacking anyone ... i just wanted proof ... i like proof .. i don't believe everything i hear .... thats what got us in this damn war in the first place ...


now that we agree on the fact that they can track the links ... why should we care ... they have hammered this campaign from the beginning ... and if we are voting for ron paul on the site ... wouldn't they get a hunch that we are ron paul supporters .. most likely who visits some of these sites??? i don't know ... just seems like we are hiding .. and i don't like it ... but who am i right? you apparently don't care who i am ... you all are being very rude

People were snapping at you beccause...
a- you were making a big deal out of nothing
b- you were being skeptical about a non-issue. Why would someone lie to you about this?
c- threads are usually supposed to be about something important.


If a website sees the majority of the people who voted in a poll came from a Ron Paul forum, then they know that the poll is not a good representitive of the people who normally traffic their site. For example, that would give CNN an excuse not to announce the results of the poll on television.

[moglesb1]

I would agree. That is in every instance except online polls.

There are really two types of online pollsters:

Those who want a certain outcome and will not be happy if someone changes it.
and
Those who really want a fair and honest assessment of their readers' choice and beliefs.


If we show them we are flooding the poll (yes we are doing that when we link to the poll from our page) then we upset both groups. They either get upset at us for manipulating the data to go against the result they wanted, or they get upset with us for flooding their fair assessment and thus not accurately portraying their readers' opinions.

The excuse will always be the same in both cases though if they know we are linking to their page. "A very small but dedicated group of Ron Paul supporters is able to flood every online poll and thus the poll is not accurate" And to be honest that is a true statement.

but we are showing them that they are incorrect about the small group ... so what does it matter ... i mean ill break the damn links if it will make everyone happy ... seems coward to me though

[moglesb1]

People were snapping at you beccause...
a- you were making a big deal out of nothing
b- you were being skeptical about a non-issue. Why would someone lie to you about this?
c- threads are usually supposed to be about something important.


If a website sees the majority of the people who voted in a poll came from a Ron Paul forum, then they know that the poll is not a good representitive of the people who normally traffic their site. For example, that would give CNN a reason not to announce the results of the poll on television.

do you really ever see a non scientific poll about the candidates on cnn anyway? ...

[austin356]

but we are showing them that they are incorrect about the small group ... so what does it matter ... i mean ill break the damn links if it will make everyone happy ... seems coward to me though


If showing force and organization is what we want then yea dont break the links.

If we want them to think their poll is even somewhat accurate representation of their regular readers' opinions then no we need to break the links.

[moglesb1]

If showing force and organization is what we want then yea dont break the links.

If we want them to think their poll is even somewhat accurate representation of their regular readers' opinions then no we need to break the links.

so we want to be deceptive just like the bush administration ... to get what we want ... hmmm ... makes sense

[jake]

moglesb1 : this type of tracking is called a referer or "referring URL"

Please read up here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referer

LINKS MUST BE BROKEN

[acmegeek]

Yes, the problem with being able to track referers (yes it is spelled that way) is that they then have the potential to discard our votes if they want to.

Or worse... they could switch our votes behind the scenes... we click on RP and they make it count for someone else...

So, break the links and/or enable an automatic system in the forums to use a transparent redirect. This is where the link actually goes to an intermediate server which strips off any referer/ip/browser information that can be traced back to you...

They are playing a game, we have to know the rules and respond accordingly.

[moglesb1]

moglesb1 : this type of tracking is called a referer or "referring URL"

Please read up here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referer

LINKS MUST BE BROKEN

this link has been given to me about 4 times ... read the whole thread please ... i have established what a referer is ... thanks

[austin356]

so we want to be deceptive just like the bush administration ... to get what we want ... hmmm ... makes sense


If this is what the argument has come down too, then LOL LOL LOL

[risiusj]

so we want to be deceptive just like the bush administration ... to get what we want ... hmmm ... makes sense

Good one.
If you are too lazy to copy and paste don't do it.

[moglesb1]

Good one.
If you are too lazy to copy and paste don't do it.

you know im right ... we are trying to manipulate the system by hiding where we come from ... and i feel that's wrong

[acmegeek]

It isn't about being deceptive, it is knowing that they are playing the game and we don't want to play into their snare by giving them any more information than they need.

My biggest fear is them switching our votes and/or somehow discounting them entirely or by a percentage. Say that for every 100 votes from us, they only count 10 or something.

[moglesb1]

It isn't about being deceptive, it is knowing that they are playing the game and we don't want to play into their snare by giving them any more information than they need.

My biggest fear is them switching our votes and/or somehow discounting them entirely or by a percentage. Say that for every 100 votes from us, they only count 10 or something.

ok ... fine everyone wins .. i lose ... good debate ... ill break the damn links

[acmegeek]

And, the thing is they (the MSM) has been shown, proven, etc to have manipulated the results of online polls. With that in mind we just don't want them to simply show the result they want. It is sad, but that is the game that they initiated.

[moglesb1]

And, the thing is they (the MSM) has been shown, proven, etc to have manipulated the results of online polls. With that in mind we just don't want them to simply show the result they want. It is sad, but that is the game that they initiated.

ok ... again ... i will break the links

[Wayne Hammond]

so we want to be deceptive just like the bush administration ... to get what we want ... hmmm ... makes sense

Listen, dude. Seriously for once. Okay?

The reason we break links is because anti-Paul poll-makers are actively deleting their polls, or discounting the results, simply because many voters come from RonPaulForums.com. That is the "deceptive" activity going on here - it is the poll-makers who are being deceptive. We are trying to by-pass their deceptiveness by not allowing them to selectively censor our votes, simply because we came from this forum.

So, that should answer your question. Nothing to see here... move on... :rolleyes:

.

[acmegeek]

:) Its OK, this is a learning process for all of us in some respect. Many of us live, eat, and breathe the web, (going on 11 years for me), so we just think along these lines.

Thanks for the discussion. I'm sure it will prove beneficial for others as well. Many web concepts don't obviously relate to real world examples.

[moglesb1]

Listen, dude. Seriously for once. Okay?

The reason we break links is because anti-Paul poll-makers are actively deleting their polls, or discounting the results, simply because many voters come from RonPaulForums.com. That is the "deceptive" activity going on here - it is the poll-makers who are being deceptive. We are trying to by-pass their deceptiveness by not allowing them to selectively censor our votes, simply because we came from this forum.

So, that should answer your question. Nothing to see here... move on... :rolleyes:

.

ive said ok twice ... i will break the links ...

[HOLLYWOOD]

You don't think websites can track where their traffic comes from? They can. Ask any of the webmasters on the forums.

YES THEY CAN TRACK EXACTLY what website you came from...

That's how AFFILIATES (advertisers on web pages) get paid with complete stats on everything about you.

[rfbz]

good god moglesb1, what a waste of effort this whole thread is. Yes webmasters can see where their traffic comes from, I monitor this all the time on my own site - I like seeing where people are coming from so I know what works and what doesn't. The reason people break links is because someone at the polling site will notice all the Ron Paul votes, see the traffic coming from a specific site, they will then go to that site out of curiosity, only to see a "Go here and vote for Ron Paul!" thread, which will just confirm what they suspect - that Ron Paul voters are just a bunch of spammers.