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Brian4Liberty
07-25-2018, 02:44 PM
Trump, Juncker Announce Deal Pulling Back From U.S.-EU Trade War (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-25/trump-juncker-reach-deal-to-ease-trade-tensions-dow-jones-says-jk1jtfs8)
By Toluse Olorunnipa and Margaret Talev - July 25, 2018,


President Donald Trump reached an agreement Wednesday with European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker aimed at averting a transatlantic trade war, easing tensions stoked by Trump’s threat to impose tariffs on car imports.

The two sides agreed to expand European imports of U.S. liquified natural gas and soybeans and lower industrial tariffs on both sides, Trump said. The U.S. and European Union will “hold off on other tariffs” while negotiations proceed, Juncker said.

“We had a big day, very big,” Trump said at a joint statement with Juncker at the White House Wednesday. He hailed “a new phase” of trade relations.

The two leaders also said they would work toward “zero” tariffs on industrial goods, according to Trump. He added that they would try to “resolve” steel and aluminum tariffs he imposed earlier this year and retaliatory duties the EU levied in response.
...
More: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-25/trump-juncker-reach-deal-to-ease-trade-tensions-dow-jones-says-jk1jtfs8

Swordsmyth
07-25-2018, 02:48 PM
https://media.8ch.net/file_store/0512b30ace9af4ea2599ff64ab31fce443e34032509da3c6eb e14abf38764ce3.jpg

acptulsa
07-25-2018, 02:51 PM
https://media.8ch.net/file_store/0512b30ace9af4ea2599ff64ab31fce443e34032509da3c6eb e14abf38764ce3.jpg

LOL at Mister I didn't vote for Trump and I'm not here to promote him.

Swordsmyth
07-25-2018, 02:55 PM
LOL at Mister I didn't vote for Trump and I'm not here to promote him.

I didn't vote for him and I point out things he does wrong, I also have made it quite clear that his actions while imperfect have convinced me he is the best president since Coolidge.

He has done a very good thing here and I will celebrate it.

phill4paul
07-25-2018, 02:55 PM
Winning. Let's see how the Republicants and Demoncrats spin this one.

phill4paul
07-25-2018, 02:59 PM
LOL at Mister I didn't vote for Trump and I'm not here to promote him.

So this is a bad thing?

acptulsa
07-25-2018, 03:13 PM
So this is a bad thing?

I'm not crazy about selling off our natural gas. I'm happy we have markets for our soy. I don't have any more idea what will come of the rest of it than you do.

My crystal ball isn't working. Get back to me.

Swordsmyth
07-25-2018, 03:24 PM
I'm not crazy about selling off our natural gas.
So you want to control who we are allowed to sell NatGas to? How very libertarian.


I don't have any more idea what will come of the rest of it than you do.

My crystal ball isn't working. Get back to me.
I think lower tariffs on both sides will be good for the economy, are you so unlibertarian you can't see that?
Or are you just so biased that you refuse to admit it because Trump was the one who achieved it?

phill4paul
07-25-2018, 03:26 PM
I'm not crazy about selling off our natural gas. I'm happy we have markets for our soy. I don't have any more idea what will come of the rest of it than you do.

My crystal ball isn't working. Get back to me.

OK

acptulsa
07-25-2018, 03:47 PM
So you want to control who we are allowed to sell NatGas to?

Where did I say that?


I think lower tariffs on both sides will be good for the economy, are you so unlibertarian you can't see that?
Or are you just so biased that you refuse to admit it because Trump was the one who achieved it?

You seem to be, you're the one who has been cheering tariffs for weeks.

As for me, I'll believe it when I see it. So far, all we're doing is trying to ensure Europe's full of (our) beans. And gas (which does seem like a natural result).

Swordsmyth
07-25-2018, 03:53 PM
Where did I say that?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by acptulsa http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=6657901#post6657901)
I'm not crazy about selling off our natural gas.





You seem to be, you're the one who has been cheering tariffs for weeks.

As for me, I'll believe it when I see it. So far, all we're doing is trying to ensure Europe's full of (our) beans. And gas (which does seem like a natural result).

For weeks I have been advocating defensive tariffs with the goal of negotiating low tariffs on both sides, which is exactly what Trump is doing.

But like all TDS victims you have no capacity to understand complex ideas.

acptulsa
07-25-2018, 04:45 PM
I'm not crazy about selling off our natural gas.

So you want to control who we are allowed to sell NatGas to? How very libertarian.
Where did I say that?


But like all TDS victims you have no capacity to understand complex ideas.

I can understand the only slightly complex idea that one can be not crazy about the idea of something without wanting to resort to political action on that something. How about you? Is that puzzle too adult for you?

Swordsmyth
07-25-2018, 04:50 PM
I can understand the only slightly complex idea that one can be not crazy about e idea of something without wanting to resort to political action on that something. How about you? Is that puzzle too adult for you?
The only reason to mention your opinion about the NatGas in the context of this thread is to imply that it was not a good thing for Trump to do and that he shouldn't have done it.

acptulsa
07-25-2018, 05:00 PM
The only reason to mention your opinion about the NatGas in the context of this thread is to imply that it was not a good thing for Trump to do and that he shouldn't have done it.

I'm a libertarian. I can say the owners of the natural gas shouldn't export it, or that I think we should pressure them not to export it, without saying I give a shit about the tariff. I can do that.

Clearly tariffs tend to be negotiated in packages, and blah blah blah. But tariffs are not sales.

I'm not crazy about exporting our energy. We could still be running on Oklahoma oil if we hadn't used it to fuel the British and other allies in two world wars. Clearly there were a bunch of people aching to pump it out of the ground and get rich on it, so the idea of leaving it in the ground until we needed it was unrealistic and unlikely. But I still think it's a shame the human race is so short sighted that we are now blowing up the Middle East to get something that we once had plenty of here at home.

Does that mean I think Oklahoma Governor "Alfalfa" Bill Murray was wise to send the state militia to shut down oil production in 1936 until the oil price went up? No. Wisdom would be nice. But trying to use government to enforce wisdom seldom works out well for anyone.

But, you know, that's a complex idea, and I don't expect you to understand it. All I expect from you is, Trump did it, you like it; Trump didn't do it, you don't like it; Trump did it last week and didn't do it this week, so you liked it last week and don't like it now. Nothing more.

Swordsmyth
07-25-2018, 05:04 PM
I'm a libertarian. I can say the owners of the natural gas shouldn't export it, or that I think we should pressure them not to export it, without saying I give a $#@! about the tariff. I can do that.

Clearly tariffs tend to be negotiated in packages, and blah blah blah. But tariffs are not sales.

I'm not crazy about exporting our energy. We could still be running on Oklahoma oil if we hadn't used it to fuel the British and other allies in two world wars. Clearly there were a bunch of people aching to pump it out of the ground and get rich on it, so the idea of leaving it in the ground until we needed it was unrealistic and unlikely. But I still think it's a shame the human race is so short sighted that we are now blowing up the Middle East to get something that we once had plenty of here at home.

Does that mean I think Oklahoma Governor "Alfalfa" Bill Murray was wise to send the state militia to shut down oil production in 1936 until the oil price went up? No. Wisdom would be nice. But trying to use government to enforce wisdom seldom works out well for anyone.

But, you know, that's a complex idea, and I don't expect you to understand it. All I expect from you is, Trump did it, you like it; Trump didn't do it, you don't like it; Trump did it last week and didn't do it this week, so you liked it last week and don't like it now. Nothing more.

Tell me more about this "PRESSURE".

Origanalist
07-25-2018, 05:06 PM
I sense a bromance developing here.

acptulsa
07-25-2018, 05:07 PM
Tell me more about this "PRESSURE".

Why? It isn't a difficult word. I don't feel like biting on whatever fishhook you think you have hidden in that. But it's self-evident that it isn't an invitation to polite and rational discourse.

Swordsmyth
07-25-2018, 05:13 PM
Why? It isn't a difficult word. I don't feel like biting on whatever fishhook you think you have hidden in that. But it's self-evident that it isn't an invitation to polite and rational discourse.
Asking them politely not to make money won't work and is contrary to the spirit of free-market libertarianism if not its letter, you either are a foolish blowhard or you meant something even less libertarian.

acptulsa
07-25-2018, 05:19 PM
Asking them politely not to make money won't work and is contrary to the spirit of free-market libertarianism if not its letter, you either are a foolish blowhard or you meant something even less libertarian.

Yeah, clearly the Nestlé boycott was not a libertarian solution to a problem... :rolleyes:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestlé_boycott

People like you erroneously redefining libertarianism is one of the major problems this movement has. So, are you being a useful idiot for the MSM with this crap, or are you a pro troll?

euphemia
07-25-2018, 05:19 PM
The Art of the Deal.

Swordsmyth
07-25-2018, 05:26 PM
Yeah, clearly the Nestlé boycott was not a libertarian solution to a problem... :rolleyes:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestlé_boycott

People like you erroneously redefining libertarianism is one of the major problems this movement has. So, are you being a useful idiot for the MSM with this crap, or are you a pro troll?

It does violate the spirit of free-market libertarianism, Nestle has every right to sell its products to anyone who wants to buy them.

In any case if you attempt to boycott the NatGas companies that will just make them more likely to sell their gas to foreigners.

Zippyjuan
07-25-2018, 05:45 PM
So the deal is "no new tariffs for now". Details for anything else to be negotiated later. They will "work towards" reducing tariffs in the future.

acptulsa
07-25-2018, 05:46 PM
It does violate the spirit of free-market libertarianism...

No, it doesn't.

That kind of crap has been the bane of this movement since before Ayn Rand sold her first book. Libertarianism is not mercenary. Libertarianism is not inhumane. Libertarianism does not dictate to a consumer why said consumer makes the decisions he or she makes or the way individuals spend their money. Libertarianism does not require people to avoid working together for the common good.

You sound like a leftist trying to redefine us as something we are not. Gee, thanks. No, libertarian thought does not depend upon people choosing the cheapest product available without a single thought to anything else. If people do not wish to associate with those who exploit the Third World, then it takes a government to force them to.

We know you're hanging around here posting dozens of times a day, pretending your views are libertarian when you know they are not. But do you have to tell the world what libertarianism is when either you don't know, or you deliberately want to misrepresent it?


So the deal is "no new tariffs for now". Details for anything else to be negotiated later. They will "work towards" reducing tariffs in the future.

If the Trumpcucks don't count their chickens before they hatch, when will they ever be able to count any chickens at all?

Swordsmyth
07-25-2018, 05:47 PM
So the deal is "no new tariffs for now". Details for anything else to be negotiated later. They will "work towards" reducing tariffs in the future.

Do you really expect it all to happen in one day?

Zippyjuan
07-25-2018, 05:52 PM
Do you really expect it all to happen in one day?

It was a typical Trump event. Meet. Get pictures taken. Nothing really changes. Declare victory.

They "truly love each other" now.

1022267646119763970

Swordsmyth
07-25-2018, 05:53 PM
No, it doesn't.

That kind of crap has been the bane of this movement since before Ayn Rand sold her first book. Libertarianism is not mercenary. Libertarianism is not inhumane. Libertarianism does not dictate to a consumer why said consumer makes the decisions he or she makes or the way individuals spend their money. Libertarianism does not require people to avoid working together for the common good.

You sound like a leftist trying to redefine us as something we are not. Gee, thanks. No, libertarian thought does not depend upon people choosing the cheapest product available without a single thought to anything else. If people do not wish to associate with those who exploit the Third World, then it takes a government to force them to.

We know you're hanging around here posting dozens of times a day, pretending your views are libertarian when you know they are not. But do you have to tell the world what libertarianism is when either you don't know, or you deliberately want to misrepresent it?

Libertarianism does allow for boycotts but the "crime" of selling their product hardly calls for one, neither does the "crime" of selling LNG to Europe.

Swordsmyth
07-25-2018, 05:55 PM
It was a typical Trump event. Meet. Get pictures taken. Nothing really changes. Declare victory.

Actually something did change, the US and EU were about to slap even more tariffs on eachother and now they aren't going to, also the EU hd absolutely refused to discuss lowering their tariffs and now they have agreed to.

Zippyjuan
07-25-2018, 05:57 PM
Actually something did change, the US and EU were about to slap even more tariffs on eachother and now they aren't going to, also the EU hd absolutely refused to discuss lowering their tariffs and now they have agreed to.

When Trump took office, they had offered to get rid of over 97% of tariffs. Now there are even more than when he started. Winning!

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?524664-TTIP-EU-offered-97-cut-on-US-tariffs-secret-papers-show

Swordsmyth
07-25-2018, 05:59 PM
When Trump took office, they had offered to get rid of over 97% of tariffs. Now there are even more than when he started.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?524664-TTIP-EU-offered-97-cut-on-US-tariffs-secret-papers-show

With strings attached, Trump didn't take that bait and now they are willing to negotiate without the trap.

Jamesiv1
07-25-2018, 06:00 PM
I'm starting to get a little tired from all the winning.

Zippyjuan
07-25-2018, 06:01 PM
With strings attached, Trump didn't take that bait and now they are willing to negotiate without the trap.

True. We had to cut ours too. Which the US had agreed to do.

Swordsmyth
07-25-2018, 06:04 PM
I'm starting to get a little tired from all the winning.

I'm not, I never get tired of winning.

Too much of a good thing is a good thing.

Swordsmyth
07-25-2018, 06:05 PM
True. We had to cut ours too. Which the US had agreed to do.

We had to agree to another globalist boondoggle, now we don't.

Zippyjuan
07-25-2018, 06:10 PM
We had to agree to another globalist boondoggle, now we don't.

Trump says it is what he wants.

Swordsmyth
07-25-2018, 06:12 PM
Trump says it is what he wants.

He doesn't say he wants another globalist boondoggle.

acptulsa
07-25-2018, 06:15 PM
It does violate the spirit of free-market libertarianism, Nestle has every right to sell its products to anyone who wants to buy them.


Libertarianism does allow for boycotts but the "crime" of selling their product hardly calls for one, neither does the "crime" of selling LNG to Europe.

Your flip-flop and your lame attempt to distract from it by expressing disdain for my notion that we might need our natural gas some day is all well and good. It's heartening to see that you can change your mind when you're proven wrong, even if you'd rather eat glass than come right out and honestly admit it.

But that doesn't disguise the fact that your thought processes are identical to those of the worst of the progs. They hear that libertarians want to do away with the Department of Education, and they blurt out like sheep, 'Why don't you want children to be educated?!' You hear about a boycott, and blurt out, 'That's not mercenary enough to be libertarian!' It's the exact same thing.

Maybe you should take a few pauses here and there to read, in between spamming the snot out of the forum like your notions are the end all and be all, and picking fights and trying to always get the last word, and learn something about us. Because as many years as you've been here preaching, you should know better than this.

Swordsmyth
07-25-2018, 06:22 PM
Your flip-flop and your lame attempt to distract from it by expressing disdain for my notion that we might need our natural gas some day is all well and good. It's heartening to see that you can change your mind when you're proven wrong, even if you'd rather eat glass than come right out and honestly admit it.

But that doesn't disguise the fact that your thought processes are identical to those of the worst of the progs. They hear that libertarians want to do away with the Department of Education, and they blurt out like sheep, 'Why don't you want children to be educated?!' You hear about a boycott, and blurt out, 'That's not mercenary enough to be libertarian!' It's the exact same thing.

Maybe you should take a few pauses here and there to read, in between spamming the snot out of the forum like your notions are the end all and be all, and picking fights and trying to always get the last word, and learn something about us. Because as many years as you've been here preaching, you should know better than this.
I said:

Asking them politely not to make money won't work and is contrary to the spirit of free-market libertarianism if not its letter, you either are a foolish blowhard or you meant something even less libertarian.
I never flip-flopped.
It is in violation of the spirit of libertarianism to boycott a company for the "crime" of selling its product to people who want to buy it.

You act as if we may run out of LNG and not develop a replacement for it, both show a lack of faith in the market.

acptulsa
07-25-2018, 06:43 PM
It is in violation of the spirit of libertarianism to boycott a company for the "crime" of selling its product to people who want to buy it.

You surely do love to post nonsense, receive a rational and detailed rebuttal, and then repeat yourself as if repeating yourself instantly rebuts any statement.

It is completely libertarian to deal with problems and misbehaviors. It is completely libertarian to set goals and priorities and meet them. Libertarianism can use carrots tied to sticks, sticks, reward, punishment, and anything else under the sun except government to meet those goals and enforce those priorities.

That is the spirit of libertarianism. Now you know. I don't understand how it took you this long to learn it. I don't know if you've learned it even now that it was spoon-fed to you. But it's a fact nonetheless.

Zippyjuan
07-25-2018, 06:49 PM
You surely do love to post nonsense, receive a rational and detailed rebuttal, and then repeat yourself as if repeating yourself instantly rebuts any statement.

It is completely libertarian to deal with problems and misbehaviors. It is completely libertarian to set goals and priorities and meet them. Libertarianism can use carrots tied to sticks, sticks, reward, punishment, and anything else under the sun except government to meet those goals and enforce those priorities.

That is the spirit of libertarianism. Now you know. I don't understand how it took you this long to learn it. I don't know if you've learned it even now that it was spoon-fed to you. But it's a fact nonetheless.

The trick is to try to toss in enough cliches into the response and repeat them often.

Swordsmyth
07-25-2018, 06:51 PM
You surely do love to post nonsense, receive a rational and detailed rebuttal, and then repeat yourself as if repeating yourself instantly rebuts any statement.

It is completely libertarian to deal with problems and misbehaviors. It is completely libertarian to set goals and priorities and meet them. Libertarianism can use carrots tied to sticks, sticks, reward, punishment, and anything else under the sun except government to meet those goals and enforce those priorities.

That is the spirit of libertarianism. Now you know. I don't understand how it took you this long to learn it. I don't know if you've learned it even now that it was spoon-fed to you. But it's a fact nonetheless.
Selling a product to someone who wants to buy it isn't a misbehavior and any true libertarian knows that, boycotts are as close to the use of force as economic warfare is to actual warfare, the fact that you want to organize your gang of people who punish a company privately instead of using the government is only a slight difference, it does cross a key threshold but when you use it to bully companies that are not doing anything wrong it is certainly in violation of the spirit of libertarianism.

acptulsa
07-25-2018, 06:57 PM
...privately instead of using the government is only a slight difference...

No wonder you sound so much like a prog. You are a prog. Or a neocon, which is close enough.

Even after being spoon-fed, you have no more idea what libertarianism is than the Man in the Moon.

Arbitrary authority exercising power vs. the people exercising power is a "slight difference". Well. There are your true colors in all their glory. Let no one wonder any longer.

Swordsmyth
07-25-2018, 07:03 PM
No wonder you sound so much like a prog. You are a prog. Or a neocon, which is close enough.

Even after being spoon-fed, you have no more idea what libertarianism is than the Man in the Moon.
LOL, you want to organize an attack on a business for selling its product to willing customers and I am the prog or neocon.:rolleyes:

acptulsa
07-25-2018, 07:10 PM
LOL, you want to organize an attack on a business for selling its product to willing customers and I am the prog or neocon.:rolleyes:

You are a corporatist, and you're trying to tell libertarians that corporatism is libertarianism. You are sitting there saying that corporations should be able to do whatever the fuck they damned well please, and if the people don't like it they can lump it. You are saying that is libertarianism. And you are saying that you see little or no moral or principled difference between We, the People standing against them and the government exercising arbitrary power.

You are a corporatist. And rather than being satisfied with your willing useful idiots the progs and the neocons, you're here trying to tell libertarians that our philosophy is corporatism.

Better get your blood pressure meds, because you ain't getting away with it.

Geez, I make a simple offhand comment that I'm not crazy about exporting all our energy reserves, and the next thing I know, you're so determined to turn that into an argument that you're exposing your true corporatist colors for the world to see. I just never know what sort of foolishness to expect from you.

Swordsmyth
07-25-2018, 07:19 PM
You are a corporatist, and you're trying to tell libertarians that corporatism is libertarianism. You are sitting there saying that corporations should be able to do whatever the $#@! they damned well please, and if the people don't like it they can lump it. You are saying that is libertarianism. And you are saying that you see little or no moral or principled difference between We, the People standing against them and the government exercising arbitrary power.

You are a corporatist. And rather than being satisfied with your willing useful idiots the progs and the neocons, you're here trying to tell libertarians that our philosophy is corporatism.

Better get your blood pressure meds, because you ain't getting away with it.
Again you claim I said things I didn't, you are free to pursue any stupid unlibertarian boycott you wish to, just because I point out that the boycotts under discussion are not good doesn't mean I am saying that there are no good boycotts or that you should be forced to buy products from any company.

Government is an organized force used to either punish crimes or misused to force the will of one party on another, boycotts are an organized force used or misused in the same ways, there is little more difference between them than the width of the threshold that is involved because a boycott is based on voluntary participation.

The boycotts you advocate are a misuse of force intended to bully a company into behaving as you wish even though it has done nothing wrong.

acptulsa
07-25-2018, 08:18 PM
Again you claim I said things I didn't...

You said things you didn't hear. And that's giving you the benefit of the doubt. If we were to assume you to be honest, and take you at face value, then the inescapable conclusion is that you not only don't listen to us, you don't even listen to yourself.


The boycotts you advocate are a misuse of force intended to bully a company into behaving as you wish even though it has done nothing wrong.

More corporatist propaganda. Firstly, it is possible for a corporation to do wrong. If a casual observer were to assume you're referring to one of the boycotts I referred to, the Nestlé boycott, then you have a strange sense of right and wrong.

Secondly, a boycott does not depend on a "wrong" to happen, or to be moral. Competition is a wonderful thing, but it is somewhat psychotic in nature. It will do what can be done, because if it doesn't, the other guy will. There are times when those things should not be done, and the wonderful thing about a free market is, the people can decide they shouldn't be done. It doesn't matter if they are right or they are wrong. It is possible for things which are neither right nor wrong to be things which shouldn't be done. Perhaps we shouldn't export our energy reserves not because exporting them is wrong, but because people believe leaving some to our grandchildren is a good thing to do.

In a case such as that (and I'm not advancing that to argue in favor of it, it's just a handy example of something people could agree to do) the threat of a boycott creates an incentive for none of the competitors to do that thing. If the company that does the thing pisses off the customer base, then it becomes a commercial and strategic advantage not to do that thing.

That, corporatist, is neither a misuse of force nor bullying. That is called The Free Market At Work.

And that is Libertarianism 101. If you don't like it, then you aren't a libertarian. We know it, and it's past time you figured it out.

axiomata
07-25-2018, 08:31 PM
I've been told to watch what Trump does, and ignore what he says. If the US and Europe bring tariffs back down to where they were before Trump took over, or better yet, lowers them, awesome. Until then, the US and foreign countries have both increased tariffs. And this only addresses the European front. Show me the tariff reductions.

Swordsmyth
07-25-2018, 08:36 PM
I've been told to watch what Trump does, and ignore what he says. If the US and Europe bring tariffs back down to where they were before Trump took over, or better yet, lowers them, awesome. Until then, the US and foreign countries have both increased tariffs. And this only addresses the European front. Show me the tariff reductions.

Fair enough, you will see.

devil21
07-25-2018, 09:16 PM
If you don't like the 'weather' this week, just wait, it'll change next week.

RonZeplin
07-25-2018, 10:03 PM
Merkel's Euro-Nazi Muslim Brotherhood might achieve enough energy independence to invade Russia. But the Muzzies might make a wrong turn and end up in Israel Palestine? :collision: They could join up with Obama/Hillary's Ukrainian Euro-Nazis.

CCTelander
07-25-2018, 10:37 PM
The boycotts you advocate are a misuse of force intended to bully a company into behaving as you wish even though it has done nothing wrong.


Under no circumstances does a simple boycott ever constitute a use of "force." EVER. Boycotts are simply the act of exercising one's right to withhold their patronage. One is perfectly free to do so for any reason whatsoever, and doing so is a completely non-coercive act. Nobody's rights are violated by people withholding their patronage, regardless of the reason for their doing so.

Aratus
07-25-2018, 11:54 PM
Fair enough, you will see.

On the issue of his impeachment I say "Fair enough, you will see..." And I shall sit back patiently.
Once again Donnie Trump tries to outdo the McKinley Tariff of 1890 that was simply too high, and
then course corrects, pretending that he is unaware of Smoot-Hawley & the events of the 1930s.

Swordsmyth
07-26-2018, 12:01 AM
On the issue of his impeachment I say "Fair enough, you will see..." And I shall sit back patiently.
Once again Donnie Trump tries to outdo the McKinley Tariff of 1890 that was simply too high, and
then course corrects, pretending that he is unaware of Smoot-Hawley & the events of the 1930s.
Smoot-Hawley is used as a scapegoat for the fed, its effect was smaller than the propaganda claims, in any case the US was a major exporter at the time so naturally starting a trade war was stupid and damaging, now we are a major importer and the victims of a trade war against us that has been going on for decades, defending ourselves and negotiating lower tariffs on all sides will benefit us greatly.

There will be no impeachment.

Aratus
07-26-2018, 12:32 AM
Swordsmyth... Let's get you on the record! ( Y or N )

DO YOU THINK THE DONALD WILL AUDIT THE FED?

Swordsmyth
07-26-2018, 12:34 AM
Swordsmyth... Let's get you on the record! ( Y or N )

DO YOU THINK THE DONALD WILL AUDIT THE FED?

I don't know, I hope he will but I have no reason to believe either way yet.

nikcers
07-26-2018, 12:36 AM
Swordsmyth... Let's get you on the record! ( Y or N )

DO YOU THINK THE DONALD WILL AUDIT THE FED?

1. "Look, I am not here to defend Trump but, do you think Hillary would of audited the fed."

2. "He once said something according to someone who was promoting him that somewhat vaguely resembles this"

3. "That's a political impossibility, Trump is just one guy, he can't take on the banks, all he can do is microwave a burrito so hot even he can't eat it."

Swordsmyth
07-26-2018, 12:38 AM
1. "Look, I am not here to defend Trump but, do you think Hillary would of audited the fed."

2. "He once said something according to someone who was promoting him that somewhat vaguely resembles this"

3. "That's a political impossibility, Trump is just one guy, he can't take on the banks, all he can do is microwave a burrito so hot even he can't eat it."


I don't know, I hope he will but I have no reason to believe either way yet.

:rolleyes:

Aratus
07-26-2018, 12:38 AM
To be very fair, if DJT did do an Audit of the legendary & labyrinthine Federal Reserve
and this is the ONLY article of Impeachment that had at least 70 bold senators taking
him to task on it, I'd be a tad PO'ed at the whole damn lot of 'em in D.C! Seriously said.

Swordsmyth
07-26-2018, 12:46 AM
Swordsmyth... Let's get you on the record! ( Y or N )

DO YOU THINK THE DONALD WILL AUDIT THE FED?

For what it is worth this is what Q has to say about it:

Q
!CbboFOtcZs
ID: 6532f9
No.2279465
(https://8ch.net/qresearch/res/2278687.html#2279465)
Jul 25 2018 10:18:14 (EST)

(https://qanon.pub/?#t1532531894) 28235DA5-7729-497B-9231-B3B1CEC56262.jpeg

https://qanon.pub/data/media/c28012eb6daeca1835e54cbb4615739b58e1db9fed0253b7f2 62cb51b4e8e798.jpeg

(https://qanon.pub/data/media/c28012eb6daeca1835e54cbb4615739b58e1db9fed0253b7f2 62cb51b4e8e798.jpeg) https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/20/trump-poised-to-take-control-of-the-federal-reserve.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/23/strategist-mark-grant-trump-has-a-right-to-call-out-the-fed.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/23/strategist-mark-grant-trump-has-a-right-to-call-out-the-fed.html)

2+2 confirmations.
Fast.
We will never again be under their control.
Q

nikcers
07-26-2018, 12:49 AM
:rolleyes:

I don't know, I hope he will but I have no reason to believe either way yet.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdarVe6NNo0

Aratus
07-26-2018, 12:50 AM
My impulse is to think that Q is a tad off.
An audit can be done. Even if it's difficult...

Swordsmyth
07-26-2018, 12:53 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdarVe6NNo0

Ron doesn't always understand Trump, as I said:

I don't know, I hope he will but I have no reason to believe either way yet.

devil21
07-26-2018, 01:21 AM
My impulse is to think that Q is a tad off.
An audit can be done. Even if it's difficult...

People still listen to that Q stuff?

Bazillions of indictments coming!!!!?!?!!??!?!

Tick tock!!!

Come on.

Mordan
07-26-2018, 03:56 AM
I didn't vote for him and I point out things he does wrong, I also have made it quite clear that his actions while imperfect have convinced me he is the best president since Coolidge.

He has done a very good thing here and I will celebrate it.

i knew he would one of the best simply because of the way the media and the left treated him during the campaign.

Mordan
07-26-2018, 04:01 AM
I sense a bromance developing here.

you mean between Trump and Juncker?

lol

Mordan
07-26-2018, 04:30 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Di_TAQOWwAI5gMs.jpg:large

TheCount
07-26-2018, 04:55 AM
Lower than what?

nobody's_hero
07-26-2018, 05:47 AM
It's pure madness but not without a method.

devil21
07-26-2018, 11:23 AM
It's nice to see that they could dry Juncker out enough for the meeting.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s2Wgcj0wdY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPgiI46FCDU

nikcers
07-26-2018, 01:20 PM
Larry Kudlow: US, EU will be allied in fight against China


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fylCuwNUDM0

Zippyjuan
07-26-2018, 01:41 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Di_TAQOWwAI5gMs.jpg:large

Definitely "touchy- feely" meeting. Trump said they loved each other. "There was great warmth and feeling in the room" in another tweet.

1022267646119763970

https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/AP_18206640806309-e1532557829361.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=4949

https://g8fip1kplyr33r3krz5b97d1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/GettyImages-810680992-714x465.jpg

https://www.dw.com/image/44827370_301.jpg

phill4paul
07-26-2018, 01:44 PM
Figured the best the progs could throw at this development is pictures of Trump and Juncker touching each other. Excellent reporting Zippy!

Zippyjuan
07-26-2018, 01:51 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jul/26/jean-claude-juncker-donald-trump-trade-deal-washington-talks-analysis


Trump-Juncker 'talks about talks' met with scepticism

<snip>

But what did it really amount to? “Talks about talks,” said one senior EU diplomat attached to a member state.

In return for Trump not escalating the by hammering European, particularly German, carmakers, the EU said it will open negotiations on zero tariffs and non-tariff barriers on industrial goods, apart from cars and car parts.

It will also hold off on a further raft of retaliatory tariffs on €20bn (£17.8bn) of goods, including suitcases and photocopiers, which were lined up to join the including agricultural goods, Harley Davidson motorcycles and bourbon.

Juncker mysteriously suggested the EU would be importing a load of soya beans to help farmers in the US midwest .

The EU also wanted to import a greater amount of liquified natural gas (LNG), Juncker said.

“But these are decisions made by private companies – unless the commission is suddenly going to be buying up beans,” a puzzled EU diplomat said.

On returning to Brussels, EU officials who had been with Juncker and Trump in Washington conceded that, indeed, the promises had been made with full knowledge that market forces would lead to increases in imports of soya beans and LNG, rather than any action by the EU. “We are not going to turn into a Soviet-style economy,” one said.




And, as positive as the trade deal on industrial goods sounded – a bastardisation of the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership aborted by Trump – the EU has a policy of not agreeing deals with states that are not signed up to the Paris climate deal, so it is difficult to see where it will go.

Guntram Wolff, the director of the Bruegel thinktank in Brussels, said the White House talks, for all that, should be seen as a success for both sides. The US president had been coming under domestic pressure as exporters started to feel the effect of existing EU tariffs, and may have been looking for a way to avoid further escalation ahead of the US mid-term elections.

Juncker was able to buy the German car industry more time. While refusing to engage in the hand-holding that , he was clearly also able to build a personal relationship with the US president.

An EU official said: “There is, to a certain extent, good chemistry between President Juncker and President Trump,” an EU official said. “But to quote Harold Wilson, ‘a week is a very long time in politics’.”

Indeed, there remains deep scepticism among EU member states. France and the Netherlands had been particularly strong on not wanting the commission to negotiate with Trump unless he withdrew the punitive tariffs on that started the trade war in the first place.

The French president, Emmanuel Macron, was one of those who insisted the EU would not negotiate with a gun to its head, and had called for the metal tariffs to be dropped in order for wider trade negotiations to progress.

The 28 member states had additionally agreed at a summit in Sofia in May that any deal on industrial goods with the US would come with a price tag in the form of a deal on public procurement, opening up US contracts to EU providers.

“We don’t want to give away anything for free,” said an EU diplomat. “And that gun is on the table and the bazooka of tariffs on cars is just in the cupboard and could come back at any time.”

France’s economy minister, Bruno Le Maire, expressed wariness over the talks with Trump.

“Each side, the Europeans and the Americans, must find something in these discussions. Any trade deal must be based on reciprocity. We don’t want to enter into a negotiation [on] a wide-ranging deal,” he said.

Le Maire added that previous failures to make progress on a free-trade deal showed the limits of a potential agreement.

Paris will insist the EU should not make concessions “under constraint”. Concessions by Brussels need to be matched by those from Washington, a French source said. And the US must “respect EU standards and norms”.

A senior diplomat, in reference to Neville Chamberlain, told The Guardian: “Maybe it is a good deal – we will have to see. But maybe it is just ‘peace for our time’, and that’s a different matter.”

When Trump took office he rejected an agreement which would have eliminated over 90% of EU tariffs with the US. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?524664-TTIP-EU-offered-97-cut-on-US-tariffs-secret-papers-show

Swordsmyth
07-26-2018, 03:05 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jul/26/jean-claude-juncker-donald-trump-trade-deal-washington-talks-analysis





When Trump took office he rejected an agreement which would have eliminated over 90% of EU tariffs with the US. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?524664-TTIP-EU-offered-97-cut-on-US-tariffs-secret-papers-show

Because that is not all it did and the rest of what it did was bad.

Swordsmyth
07-26-2018, 03:07 PM
Definitely "touchy- feely" meeting. Trump said they loved each other. "There was great warmth and feeling in the room" in another tweet.

1022267646119763970

https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/AP_18206640806309-e1532557829361.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=4949

https://g8fip1kplyr33r3krz5b97d1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/GettyImages-810680992-714x465.jpg

https://www.dw.com/image/44827370_301.jpg

You have to treat a drunken senile moron just the right way to get him to play ball

Zippyjuan
07-26-2018, 03:07 PM
Because that is not all it did and the rest of what it did was bad.

Examples?

Swordsmyth
07-26-2018, 03:22 PM
Examples?

Do your own research.

But you can start here:

(Video) Senator Warns TPP/TTIP Will Be “Living Agreements” (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?474124-(Video)-Senator-Warns-TPP-TTIP-Will-Be-“Living-Agreements”)

Zippyjuan
07-26-2018, 03:26 PM
Do your own research.

But you can start here:

(Video) Senator Warns TPP/TTIP Will Be “Living Agreements” (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?474124-(Video)-Senator-Warns-TPP-TTIP-Will-Be-“Living-Agreements”)

Alex Jones show?

Zippyjuan
08-21-2018, 08:36 PM
Trump reneging on agreement not to add any more tariffs on Europe unless they do so first?

At a rally in West Virginia tonight: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/21/trump-us-to-put-a-25percent-tariff-on-every-car-from-european-union.html


Trump: We are going to put a 25% tariff on every car from the European Union

President Donald Trump said Tuesday night that the U.S. would slap a 25 percent tariff on cars coming from the European Union.

The president's statement came hours after The Wall Street Journal reported that Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross said he had postponed an August timeline to publish a report on auto tariffs.

"We're going to put a 25 percent tax on every car that comes into the United States from the European Union," Trump said at a campaign rally in West Virginia.

Ross told The Journal that it wasn't clear that a report on potential tariffs would come out by the end of August. The Commerce secretary also declined to set a new timeline, according to the newspaper. He said the report was being delayed because of ongoing negotiations with Mexico, Canada, and the European Commission.

Ross also said it was taking longer than anticipated to go through materials submitted by automakers, who are largely against tariffs that critics say would drive up costs to consumers and to their own supply chain.

The president has said he could impose tariffs of 20 to 25 percent on auto imports. In May, he asked the Commerce Department to examine whether such imports are threats to national security. He used a similar argument to put tariffs on steel and aluminum imports.



Just last month: https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-jean-claude-juncker-announces-trade-negotiations-with-eu/


Trump says no new tariffs against EU after parties agree to trade negotiations

WASHINGTON — U.S. President Donald Trump announced Wednesday that the United States will pause its plans to impose new tariffs against the European Union and work to resolve existing differences over trade in an attempt to avoid a full-blown trade war.

The “new phase” in the trade relationship between Washington and Brussels comes after Trump met with European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, who traveled to the White House with his team to attempt to head off potential tariffs on U.S. imports of autos and auto parts.



Asked to explain what exactly the two sides agreed on, an EU official said the U.S. would not impose new tariffs against European autos and auto parts. The EU side’s understanding is that “car tariffs currently in place will stay as they are,” the official told POLITICO.

More at link.

Swordsmyth
08-21-2018, 08:43 PM
Trump reneging on agreement not to add any more tariffs on Europe unless they do so first?

At a rally in West Virginia tonight: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/21/trump-us-to-put-a-25percent-tariff-on-every-car-from-european-union.html



Just last month: https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-jean-claude-juncker-announces-trade-negotiations-with-eu/





More at link.
Perhaps they are waffling on their promises to reduce tariffs and barriers and need nudge.